Hcg ? - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Waco
Posts: 222
Hcg ?

See the trend of weight loss clinics going on, I was doing research and didn't realize it was also used by bodybuilders during cycles. I was wondering if it was safe for men alone for wt loss as it is a pregnant female hormone or something of that sort. Only thing i cant find are differences in the dosages for wt loss vs. during cycle. anyone know if it can be used as PCT?
jfrog is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 02:02 AM
drvng fstr thn u w/1 hand
 
88Whitepony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Spfld, Mo
Posts: 2,755
HCG is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is formed in the placenta immediately after nidation. It has luteinizing characteristics since it is quite similar to the luteinizing hormone LH in the anterior pituitary gland. During the first 6-8 weeks of a pregnancy the formed HCG allows for continued production of estrogens and gestagens in the yellow bodies (corpi luteum). Later on, the placenta itself produces these two hormones.

HCG is manufactured from the urine of pregnant women since it is exereted in unchanged form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. In women injectable HCG allows for owlation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. It also helps produce estrogens and yellow bodies. The fact that exogenous HCG has characteristics almost identical to those of the luteinizing hormone (LH) which, as mentioned, is produced in the hypophysis, makes HCG so very interesting for athletes. In a man the luteinizing hormone stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes; this in turn stimulates production of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone production.

HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. As mentioned, oral and injectable steroids cause a negative feedback after a certain level and duration of usage. A signal is sent to the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis since the steroids give the hypothalamus an incorrect signal. The hypothalamus, in turn, signals the hypophysis to reduce or stop the production of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and of LH. Thus, the testosterone production decreases since the testosterone-producing Leydig's cells in the testes, due to decreased LH, are no longer sufficiently stimulated. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testosterone production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing steroid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass. Administering HCG directly after steroid treatment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by megadoses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. The reasons for this is clear. On the one hand, by taking HCG the athlete's own testosterone level immediately jumps up and, on the other hand, a large concentration of anabolic substances in the blood is induced by the steroids. Many bodybuilders, powerlifters, and weightlifters report a lower sex drive at the end of a difficult workout cycle, immediately before or after a competition, and especially toward the end of a steroid treatment. Athletes who have often taken steroids in the past usually accept this fact since they know that it is a temporary condition. Those, however who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular intervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasmatestosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. The athlete will only experience a delayed re-adjustment, as has often been observed. Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in reestablishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use. For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin another steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.

Many bodybuilders, unfortunately, are still of the opinion that HCG helps them become harder while preparing for a competion by breaking down subcutaneous fat so that indentations and vascularity are better exposed. The HCG package insert states clearly that HCG has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution. HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction.

Athlete should iniect 5000 IU every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The relative dose is at the discretion of the athlete and should be determined based on the duration of his previous steroid intake and on the strength of the various steroid compounds. Athletes who take steroids for more than three months and athletes who use primarily the highly androgenic steroids such as Androlic, Sustanon 250, Cypionate, Dianabol (D-bol) etc. should take a relatively high dosage. The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 IU per injection and should, as already mentioned, be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum.

If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function. Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle. It has been speculated that the prolonged use of HCG could permanently, repress the body's own production of gonadotropins. This is why short cycles are the best way to go.

HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen. Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an inereased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appearance. Athletes who have already increased their endogenous testosterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat deposits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young athletes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG. HCG is also suitable as "over bridge" doping before a competition with doping controls.

militarysignatures.com

*SOLD*'04 Mystic Chrome Cobra
*SOLD*'03 DSG Lightning #55 of 4270

'94 Cobra
408 with a Vortech YSI strapped to it and all the goodies.
88Whitepony is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 02:05 AM
drvng fstr thn u w/1 hand
 
88Whitepony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Spfld, Mo
Posts: 2,755
since that study, there are new inputs that it's ridiculous to run 5000iu's every 5...

Anyways, hope that helps. I'd say look elsewhere for results

militarysignatures.com

*SOLD*'04 Mystic Chrome Cobra
*SOLD*'03 DSG Lightning #55 of 4270

'94 Cobra
408 with a Vortech YSI strapped to it and all the goodies.
88Whitepony is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 04:28 PM
Lifer
 
davbrucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,841
The main reason to use HCG without a medical indication for using it is for recovery from an anabolic steroid cycle. It is an LH analog...meaning that it is close enough in structure to LH that it will stimulate the leydig cells of the testes to produce testosterone...this will stimulate intratesticular aromatase so using a small dose of a SERM like nolvadex or an aromatase inhibitor like aromasin or AIFM is a good idea. Weight loss clinics arent using it for weight loss. Many obese men have low testosterone/estrogen ratio and the clinics are attempting to increase natural testosterone levels as well as controlling estradiol levels...you do not need the doseages stated in the study above to get results. You can actually cause some testicular desensitization with high doses of the stuff over a long period of time. For recovery from a lengthy anabolic steroid cycle the usual dose is 1000iu every other day for the first 3wks of PCT...or as many do, periodic injections of 250-500iu during the cycle to prevent the testicular atrphy from happening. On TRT, I run a course of 500iu for a week every couple of months. Keeps the boys at home and gives a nice boost in libido and mood.
davbrucas is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-31-2009, 08:49 AM
Lifer
 
Stangin4Lyfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas View Post
The main reason to use HCG without a medical indication for using it is for recovery from an anabolic steroid cycle. It is an LH analog...meaning that it is close enough in structure to LH that it will stimulate the leydig cells of the testes to produce testosterone...this will stimulate intratesticular aromatase so using a small dose of a SERM like nolvadex or an aromatase inhibitor like aromasin or AIFM is a good idea. Weight loss clinics arent using it for weight loss. Many obese men have low testosterone/estrogen ratio and the clinics are attempting to increase natural testosterone levels as well as controlling estradiol levels...you do not need the doseages stated in the study above to get results. You can actually cause some testicular desensitization with high doses of the stuff over a long period of time. For recovery from a lengthy anabolic steroid cycle the usual dose is 1000iu every other day for the first 3wks of PCT...or as many do, periodic injections of 250-500iu during the cycle to prevent the testicular atrphy from happening. On TRT, I run a course of 500iu for a week every couple of months. Keeps the boys at home and gives a nice boost in libido and mood.
Are you saying you are on or prescribe TRT and HCG?
Stangin4Lyfe is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-31-2009, 10:17 AM
Lifer
 
davbrucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,841
I am on it...been on it for several years.
davbrucas is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-31-2009, 11:34 AM
Lifer
 
Stangin4Lyfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas View Post
I am on it...been on it for several years.
What are your stats?
Stangin4Lyfe is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-31-2009, 12:00 PM
Lifer
 
davbrucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,841
6'1 205...
I only take cyp 200mg/wk with AIFM and proviron...with pulse HCG as above. Total test runs around 1200 with free and bioaval test very high. E2 levels low normal. All men over 35-40 should consider doing this...I posted a write up a couple years ago on the subject in this forum.
davbrucas is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-31-2009, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Waco
Posts: 222
What about fat loss alone? 125-250iu/daily is what I see being used just cant find if same for male and female. also is this only obtained by Rx? I work in the medical field so supplies and giving injections are no problem.
jfrog is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 08:03 PM
Scared s**tless
 
DON SVO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Dallas City Hall, SKYPING
Posts: 15,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
What about fat loss alone? 125-250iu/daily is what I see being used just cant find if same for male and female. also is this only obtained by Rx? I work in the medical field so supplies and giving injections are no problem.
It doesn't necessarily aid in fat loss, it just supplements the fatties because their big fat body reduces hormone production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonBT
I sound shit out man, lol. Firefox didnt have a suggestion. I figure A) I'm waay too far off, or B) It's spanish, and Firefox is an English Fox.

I facepalm myself.
DON SVO is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 08:21 PM
Lifer
 
davbrucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,841
The best weight loss remedy is to decrease intake and increase burned energy...ie, get off the couch and exercise and change your diet. It works!
davbrucas is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Waco
Posts: 222
I was really looking at it to break though my plateau, never fails, hit 250 and no more. tried changing routine and cutting carbs, might be mental but if anyone has ideas let me know. I usually hit the wall and get discouraged after about a month.
jfrog is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-04-2009, 06:50 PM
Scared s**tless
 
DON SVO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Dallas City Hall, SKYPING
Posts: 15,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
I was really looking at it to break though my plateau, never fails, hit 250 and no more. tried changing routine and cutting carbs, might be mental but if anyone has ideas let me know. I usually hit the wall and get discouraged after about a month.
go keto on the diet, if you really want to shake things up and lose weight. However, I will say that you have to STICK to it... it's supposed to be pretty tough. I've done a good bit of carb depletion before, and can verify that it sucks, LOL. But you can start knocking weight off this way if you stick with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonBT
I sound shit out man, lol. Firefox didnt have a suggestion. I figure A) I'm waay too far off, or B) It's spanish, and Firefox is an English Fox.

I facepalm myself.
DON SVO is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-04-2009, 09:18 PM
Very Interesting
 
The Big Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Around the World
Posts: 9,856
Don, it only really sucks for the first week, if you can make it past the first week, your body makes the necessary changes. Unfortunately only sticking with it for a couple of weeks really has no benefit, as the majority of weight in the first two weeks is water weight.

You're only as strong as you allow yourself to be...

Lockout Workout Forums and Supplements
The Big Matt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome