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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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No, my pull ups are fine, thank you

I'm sorry, but I want to address kipping pull ups as far too many people out there seem ignorant to them. They are a good for muscle strength, endurance and metabolic conditioning (which you don't get from dead hangs).

I get so many people trying to "correct" my pull ups and telling me I'm going to hurt my back/shoulders/whatever. That's where form and flexibility comes into play.

And it's not cheating because I do a whole lot more of them than regular dead hangs and hold myself to a higher standard when doing them (chest to bar vs. chin to bar).



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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 04:14 PM
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All exercise is great, but you aren't isolating your upper body with that flopping maneuver.

Your ass / hips / legs are doing a lot of the work of moving your chest to the bar. No wonder you can do a bunch of them.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird View Post
All exercise is great, but you aren't isolating your upper body with that flopping maneuver.

Your ass / hips / legs are doing a lot of the work of moving your chest to the bar. No wonder you can do a bunch of them.


*sigh....


Did you expect any different with this thread lol?

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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All exercise is great, but you aren't isolating your upper body with that flopping maneuver.

Your ass / hips / legs are doing a lot of the work of moving your chest to the bar. No wonder you can do a bunch of them.
I don't want to isolate anything. I want functional strength and ability, or compound movements and coordination.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:01 PM
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i dont really consider those pull ups... i know they are a version of them.. but in my mind they are not a pull up....

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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i dont really consider those pull ups... i know they are a version of them.. but in my mind they are not a pull up....
Well they certainly aren't pull downs
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:06 PM
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that flopping maneuver.
That method is pretty weak. I bet a person who can do 20 slow, rigid pull ups is going to be stronger than someone who can do 30 of the floppers. I dont think going to a complete dead hang is necessary, i stop a little shy of locking my arms out. The flopper method is ridiculous

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:09 PM
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I'll stick to what we did in the Marine Corps. Dead hang pull-ups, or Man-Ups, as we called them.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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That method is pretty weak. I bet a person who can do 20 slow, rigid pull ups is going to be stronger than someone who can do 30 of the floppers. I dont think going to a complete dead hang is necessary, i stop a little shy of locking my arms out. The flopper method is ridiculous
The greatest thing about the kipping pull ups is they allow for pushing the muscles harder than pull ups, while still getting complete reps.

When you run out of energy on dead hangs, you're done. Won't be able to go a whole ton further. Kipping allows you to continue to push yourself, testing not only muscular strength but metabolic condition.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:23 PM
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The greatest thing about the kipping pull ups is they allow for pushing the muscles harder than pull ups, while still getting complete reps.

When you run out of energy on dead hangs, you're done. Won't be able to go a whole ton further. Kipping allows you to continue to push yourself, testing not only muscular strength but metabolic condition.
I bet someone that trains with "regular" weighted lat pull down would be able to out rep someone that does just the kipping whatever. Bodyweight exercises are fine for a beginner, but won't get you near as far as a few trips to the gym.

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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I bet someone that trains with "regular" weighted lat pull down would be able to out rep someone that does just the kipping whatever. Bodyweight exercises are fine for a beginner, but won't get you near as far as a few trips to the gym.
Possibly, but then enter any type of cardio element to it and that "regular" person is toast.

Say, something that goes past failure...like 50 or 100 dead hang pull ups for time.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:52 PM
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Say, something that goes past failure...like 50 or 100 dead hang pull ups for time.
Force/cheat reps or even a partner does the trick for me.
If I tried that, I would have to call the waaaambulance!
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 08:14 PM
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Strap in, chest out, wide grip, knees locked, no movement below the waist. Go till you can't get your head to your hands, have a spotter "bump" you the rest of the way until he's basically doing military press with your legs. Repeat until busted.

That "kipping" shit is not an isolated lat exercise, which is what pull ups/chins are. Sorry.

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 08:46 PM
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I bet someone that trains with "regular" weighted lat pull down would be able to out rep someone that does just the kipping whatever. Bodyweight exercises are fine for a beginner, but won't get you near as far as a few trips to the gym.
There is a guy at the gym almost everyday I go...He does those kipping looking moves on a lat pull down. Sum bitch is going to kill himself. He thinks he is a badass because he can almost pull down the whole stack... He comes flying out of the seat and his knees catch him on the pads, then he yanks hard as he can and looks like an idiot... The trainer at the gym has told him a couple time he is going to hurt himself, but he thinks he's fine.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Strap in, chest out, wide grip, knees locked, no movement below the waist. Go till you can't get your head to your hands, have a spotter "bump" you the rest of the way until he's basically doing military press with your legs. Repeat until busted.

That "kipping" shit is not an isolated lat exercise, which is what pull ups/chins are. Sorry.
Who's saying it is?

No one. Then again, neither are dead hang pull ups
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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There is a guy at the gym almost everyday I go...He does those kipping looking moves on a lat pull down. Sum bitch is going to kill himself. He thinks he is a badass because he can almost pull down the whole stack... He comes flying out of the seat and his knees catch him on the pads, then he yanks hard as he can and looks like an idiot... The trainer at the gym has told him a couple time he is going to hurt himself, but he thinks he's fine.
That is definetely not kipping, super dangerous.
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 08:53 PM
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I bet someone that trains with "regular" weighted lat pull down would be able to out rep someone that does just the kipping whatever. Bodyweight exercises are fine for a beginner, but won't get you near as far as a few trips to the gym.
That's just not true. Kipping is not a beginner move. Doing it right takes a LOT of practice. People that aren't familiar with CrossFit just don't know that.

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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't really catch that, "body weight exercises are fine for a beginner". I wonder how many handstand push ups or muscle ups (bar or rings) a normal beginner can do. It took me quite a bit of practice to get kipping down properly. I still haven't gotten the faster method down.
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 09:26 PM
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I didn't really catch that, "body weight exercises are fine for a beginner". I wonder how many handstand push ups or muscle ups (bar or rings) a normal beginner can do. It took me quite a bit of practice to get kipping down properly. I still haven't gotten the faster method down.
People also fail to realize that we may do kipping pullups one day, and heavy dead lifts 3 days later. It's easier for people to just go 'lift' 3 days a week.

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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 09:49 PM
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i guess I can see the arguement for kipping, but in no way does it make them more difficult, it clearly makes them easier, so you may accomplish more of them (you said so yourself). It's cheating to accomplish more reps if you compare them directly to pullups

crossfit is no joke dont get me wrong,there is a reason that many SF guys use this, but i think you should have made your focus to build your cardio and not primarily strength. Maybe you did but people can't get past the kipping thing because it's not commonplace in a gym.

Your chest to bar arguement is not very good , use the same standards on your pullups and you will probably burn out even faster. The reason you get your chest to the bar is becasue of momentum, not because your form is better or your using more strength. It's like the guy in the gym that curls 60lb DB's but swings the weights and lean's back.

Crossfit is a great variation for many guys looking to get into shape, but not for weightlifting and bodybuilding. For the ordinary joe, I don't know where you'll use this so called functional strength, because you gain fuctional strength from just weight lifting. If you want to be technical weight training, and Crossfit both are not used everyday for a vast majority of the people who train their way. We do the exercises because we enjoy it, and it makes us look the way we want to! Everyone has different goals for their body, and this is a great cardiovascular progarm with strength training. If you haven't tried it, try and and you will be hurting no doubt.
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 09:55 PM
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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It's different than dead hang pull ups. NO where did anyone say they are harder than dead hang per rep. The trick is, you do a WHOLE LOT more of kipping pull ups than you do dead hang. You get a cardio work out of it at the same time as taxing the muscle groups. Calling it cheating is a bit silly and uninformed.

Very few people can maintain a chest to bar form for more than a couple reps. Again, you seem to want to compare dead hangs to kipping on a rep to rep basis.

How can you not see where you use functional strength? I gain very little functional strength from curls, but Crossfit focuses on only compound movements which recruit muscle groups in sequences that are used in life outside the gym. So do certain lifting regimens. I despise working isolation exercises like the bicep curl or leg extension. You really get minimal return on the effort form those exercises.

Anyway, the point of this thread was never to say that kipping is better than deadhang as it was so quickly turned. It's to say that kipping pull up are a very valid means of exercise, especially in the back and arm focus. I do plenty of dead hang as well. It's to educate people so they don't make the stupid mistake that several people have done in the past to me and tell me how I'm doing it wrong and am going to hurt myself.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Why would I ever want to? I rather be part of a real fighting force
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 11:12 PM
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It's different than dead hang pull ups. NO where did anyone say they are harder than dead hang per rep. The trick is, you do a WHOLE LOT more of kipping pull ups than you do dead hang. You get a cardio work out of it at the same time as taxing the muscle groups. Calling it cheating is a bit silly and uninformed.

Very few people can maintain a chest to bar form for more than a couple reps. Again, you seem to want to compare dead hangs to kipping on a rep to rep basis.

How can you not see where you use functional strength? I gain very little functional strength from curls, but Crossfit focuses on only compound movements which recruit muscle groups in sequences that are used in life outside the gym. So do certain lifting regimens. I despise working isolation exercises like the bicep curl or leg extension. You really get minimal return on the effort form those exercises.

Anyway, the point of this thread was never to say that kipping is better than deadhang as it was so quickly turned. It's to say that kipping pull up are a very valid means of exercise, especially in the back and arm focus. I do plenty of dead hang as well. It's to educate people so they don't make the stupid mistake that several people have done in the past to me and tell me how I'm doing it wrong and am going to hurt myself.
Explain where or how "kipping pull ups" are functional? If I'm hanging from the side of the building, about to drop, I don't have the option to do a kipping pull up. I'd have to actually use body strength to lift myself up. I don't see where this is practical in any real life situation, unless I'm actually hanging from a bar, in which case I don't plan on doing 50 kipping pull ups in a row. I plan on doing one regular pull up to safety, and then thanking God that I had been training with real pull ups for so long.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 11:52 PM
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Explain where or how "kipping pull ups" are functional? If I'm hanging from the side of the building, about to drop, I don't have the option to do a kipping pull up. I'd have to actually use body strength to lift myself up. I don't see where this is practical in any real life situation, unless I'm actually hanging from a bar, in which case I don't plan on doing 50 kipping pull ups in a row. I plan on doing one regular pull up to safety, and then thanking God that I had been training with real pull ups for so long.
Kipping works a lot more muscles than regular pull ups, and the movement leads into a 'muscle up'. You would be glad to have this skill hanging off of said building.

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
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Explain where or how "kipping pull ups" are functional? If I'm hanging from the side of the building, about to drop, I don't have the option to do a kipping pull up. I'd have to actually use body strength to lift myself up. I don't see where this is practical in any real life situation, unless I'm actually hanging from a bar, in which case I don't plan on doing 50 kipping pull ups in a row. I plan on doing one regular pull up to safety, and then thanking God that I had been training with real pull ups for so long.
I can guarantee you, if hanging from the side of a building/wall/whatever you will be recruiting a lot more muscles than those used in a dead hang. The leaning back, pulling forward and up, and use of core/lower body that would be used in pulling up a building much more resembles a kip than it does a dead hang. And you would recruit a similar motion (like flashstang said) to momentously transition into the muscle up that kipping leads into, to get up and over that building/wall/etc.

Not to mention that you will be able to do it while exhausted (for example, in combat), because you have been doing the MetCon that you have simultaneously trained with your kipping pull ups.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 01:27 AM
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Not today... but back in the day, kipping pull ups were the norm. Yes you can do many many more pull ups with less difficulty kipping. While I was in, the standards changed to dead hang pull ups. Results went both ways on performance. Some guys that did tons of pull ups kipping could not get 20 dead hangs for a 1st class Physical Fitness Test, or PFT. Others like myself who did tons with kipping, could still do 20 dead hang pull ups. I say either one is fine, as long as you add strength training to the kipping, or cardio to the dead hangs. My .02

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 10:56 AM
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The thing about CrossFit and movements like kipping pullups come down to one thing... power... work divided by time.

Power is what taxes the entire metabolic system over endurance, strength, speed.

The entire concept of CrossFit is to measure and challenge power output. The purpose of CrossFit is to increase the power output of the individual. Strength is also improved as well as endurance but power is what CrossFit is all about.

Also, kipping pullups deliver power from the core to the extremities and develops flexibility in the should region which you don't get from standard pullups.

To put it another way

Pure Strength
Std Pullups > Kipping Pullups

Pure Power
Kipping Pullups > Std Pullups

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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 12:08 PM
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Why would I ever want to? I rather be part of a real fighting force
Ell Oh Ell. You just lost all credibility.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Ell Oh Ell. You just lost all credibility.
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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 01:33 PM
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Marines can keep fighting the battles, we'll win the wars Tardo
Let me know when that happens.

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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 07:20 PM
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Marines can keep fighting the battles, we'll win the wars Tardo
I'm not sure what force your with, but wars are won from the air...
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what force your with, but wars are won from the air...
You can't hold an area/land from the air, won't win anything that way. Now get outta my thread with the service pissing contest.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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That is a pretty fucking good deduction. I couldn't put my finger on what the difference really was, but that is it right there.
Yeah, WC nailed it. The whole Crossfit mantra preaches power. However, kipping pull ups have been around far longer than CF.
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