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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Anabolic

So who on here actually does or has used anabolic steroids? I'm looking for someone who actually knows a good amount about different kinds and uses and saftey things for them. Thanks for the help....

Who needs please when we've got guns?
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 02:24 PM
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If you want real info from someone that has gone to medical school then pm Davbrucas.

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BAD2K
So who on here actually does or has used anabolic steroids? I'm looking for someone who actually knows a good amount about different kinds and uses and saftey things for them. Thanks for the help....
I know a few hardcore websites/forums that have several IFBB pros on there and other old school lifters that know there stuff. First of all how old are you? What are your stats?

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 02:33 PM
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Ive taken deca with huge results and only side-affect was a little more anger at times

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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 05:22 PM
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Post up your questions...I know more than most about them.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewayne6243
I know a few hardcore websites/forums that have several IFBB pros on there and other old school lifters that know there stuff. First of all how old are you? What are your stats?
23 years old
5' 10'' 185 lbs
probably 11-13% bodyfat


Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas
Post up your questions...I know more than most about them.
I have never used anything before but i want to lose maybe 15lbs of fat, and gain about 15 in very lean muscle. i just bought some stanozolol and wanted to use it with maybe aquatest suspension and liver detox supplements and maybe some of that evening oil caplets or whatever they are. i want to have good gain with the least side effects possible. i want to do it the right way even if it is more tedious and or expensive. thanks for the help.

Who needs please when we've got guns?
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 09:13 PM
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You should probably research a bit more before injecting these medications...is the winny oral? You want to run test suspension? You do know that you must inject every day with this correct? If you are dead set on doing AAS then read further.
Here is what many first timers pop their cherries with...however, you can grow just as much with a test only cycle. Look to put on 25lbs with this cycle...should keep 18-20 if you follow through with PCT.

Test enanthate 500mg e4d wk1-10
Deca Durabolin 400mg e4d wk1-10
dbol 30mg ed wk1-4
aromasin 25mg ed wk1-end of PCT (or arimidex 0.5-1mg)

PCT...start 10days after last injection
HCG 1000IU eod wk1-3
Clomid 150mg day1-2, 100mg day3-8, 50mg day9-35
Nolvadex 20mg ed wk1-5


Your diet will be key to the fat loss. Low fat high protein. 2-3g protein per lb body wt in general....LOTS of water daily. You can add T3/clen to the last 6wks of the above cycle to try to get leaner. It is my experience that if you cannot follow a proper diet and drop the fat off AAS, you will not magically be able to while on....you will get fatter when you come off if your diet sucks. At 23, your hormone levels should be relatively high. Think hard about starting this stuff, especially with the little knowledge that you have about these meds...
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 09:23 PM
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The best 1st cycle, IMO is:
wk1-10 Test Enan 500mg/wk
wk1-5 Dbol 30mg/ed
pct:
wk13 Clomid 100mg-Nolva 40mg/ed
wk14 Clomid 50mg-Nolva 30mg/ed
wk15 Clomid 50mg-Nolva 20mg/ed
If your diet and training are on, you should gain25-30lbs from this cycle..........

If you are prone to gyno then run .25 ed of arimidex.

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 09:34 PM
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test, deca, and anadrol for the first cycle (10 weeks) are HUGE results, but dont take anadrol much longer than 6 weeks 10 weeks MAX, its bad on your liver. eat right the entire time, plenty of sleep, m-f workout, different body part a day.

is this ok with you dav? not bein a smartass...
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewayne6243
The best 1st cycle, IMO is:
wk1-10 Test Enan 500mg/wk
wk1-5 Dbol 30mg/ed
pct:
wk13 Clomid 100mg-Nolva 40mg/ed
wk14 Clomid 50mg-Nolva 30mg/ed
wk15 Clomid 50mg-Nolva 20mg/ed
If your diet and training are on, you should gain25-30lbs from this cycle..........

If you are prone to gyno then run .25 ed of arimidex.
yep...good cycle. Run the adex at 0.5mg ed regardless.
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badjimmihat
test, deca, and anadrol for the first cycle (10 weeks) are HUGE results, but dont take anadrol much longer than 6 weeks 10 weeks MAX, its bad on your liver. eat right the entire time, plenty of sleep, m-f workout, different body part a day.

who said anything about anadrol? Do not take anadrol more than 4-5wks. Very hepatotoxic. I would stay away from it...
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 09:41 PM
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or test deca and dianabol...

ive taken both of these combinations, i myself didnt notice any side effects? went from 190 to 215 within 3 weeks and kept my weight over 200 while off, im 5' 11". when i get back on my goal is to get over or at least 225. but on the next one ill probably be doin growth at the same time?

Last edited by badjimmihat; 01-19-2007 at 09:58 PM.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas
who said anything about anadrol? Do not take anadrol more than 4-5wks. Very hepatotoxic. I would stay away from it...
British Dragon makes 100mg. Adrol

Wonder what that feels like taking 1 ED.

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badjimmihat
or test deca and dianabol...

ive taken both of these combinations, i myself didnt notice any side effects? went from 190 to 215 within 3 weeks and kept my weight over 200 while off, im 5' 11". when i get back on my goal is to get over or at least 225. but on the next one ill probably be doin growth at the same time?

This is the cycle I posted above...tried and true.


dewayne,
100mg adrol? Probably make you feel about the same as eating a bottle full of tylenol...same effect on your liver!
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas
This is the cycle I posted above...tried and true.


dewayne,
100mg adrol? Probably make you feel about the same as eating a bottle full of tylenol...same effect on your liver!
lol, no. the first ones i took were cheap mexican ones, 75mg. then the second set i took were the ones that no one i know can get anymore, supposedly the best, the 50mg, small white round ones. i only took them m-f a few hours before workout.
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 10:55 PM
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Ive done a couple of cycles here and there.

This is what I am going to start on but have heard mixed reviews
75mg Test P
75mg FINA
75mg Masternon
(per injection)1mL
/10ml

A couple of my buddies say I should run at least 100 prop with the fina and masternon, but what do you think.?
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agiraldo
Ive done a couple of cycles here and there.

This is what I am going to start on but have heard mixed reviews
75mg Test P
75mg FINA
75mg Masternon
(per injection)1mL
/10ml

A couple of my buddies say I should run at least 100 prop with the fina and masternon, but what do you think.?

That is 1 jacked up cycle. If you are getting ready for a show and you are 6-7% body fat you might get some results.

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 11:08 PM
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LOL.

I am looking to get much leaners
Test p ( I have run before with winstrol) nice results just very painful lol.

Fina=Trenbolone Acetate but sounds perfect for my goals.

I am 6'1 around 237
lets say for measure around 16% bf

I have my diet ready etc....
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 11:09 PM
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im a fan of Equpoise and Winny.....makes me hard as a rock

Check into some anavar bad ass stuff to....but deca is the way to go for a newbie

Just another day in paradise.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 11:11 PM
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Newbie
..

My first cycle was 500 mgs of enathate
400mgs of deca
25mgs of dbol first four weeks etc..
then PCT
Clomid
and nolva ed
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 11:12 PM
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Deca=GOD!
I blew up I felt amazing my back did not hurt anymore etc.., BUT i GOT HORRIBLE acne off the TEST ...

I will never do more than 500mgs of test
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 12:18 AM
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Question ???

I just joined a gym , (LA Fitness) . I have a question too. I have a friend that takes: Winstrol - Austrailian or something like that . 1cc every day , he works out. What is Winstrol , and what does it do ? benifits / side effects ???
I'm not looking to take anything right now , just woundering ...
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modular5.4L
I just joined a gym , (LA Fitness) . I have a question too. I have a friend that takes: Winstrol - Austrailian or something like that . 1cc every day , he works out. What is Winstrol , and what does it do ? benifits / side effects ???
I'm not looking to take anything right now , just woundering ...
winny is a cutter... 1cc a day is a bit much..every other day is what most people do with winny...

Its also pretty toxic to the liver

And is he taking it with anything else

Just another day in paradise.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 01:54 AM
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1cc=50mgs not very toxic
250mgs of winny a week = CRAZY

ED hes gna get "yellow skin and eyes".

Prob need a liver transplant
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 08:33 AM
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ah... steroids... back in the day...

Working out at Hank's Gym in Bellaire (Houston) stacking up test, deca and anivar...coming off the cycle with some hCG... buying your needles right from your local Eckerd pharmacist... getting your stack from someone's trunk at the gym...

Being 20 and not having a care in the world... just sticking my ass with a needle, chasing chicks and working out.

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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls1eater
winny is a cutter... 1cc a day is a bit much..every other day is what most people do with winny...

Its also pretty toxic to the liver

And is he taking it with anything else
1cc or 50mg ED is average. Would run it more than 6 weeks.



Active-Life: About 48 hours
Drug Class: High Anabolic/Androgenic steroid (For injection)
Average Reported Dosage: Men 50-100mgs/day, Women 5-10mgs/day
Acne:Possible
Water Retention: No
High Blood Pressure: Rare
Liver Toxic: Yes, moderate when injected
DHT Conversion: No
Decreases HPTA function: Low
Aromatization: No


The injection form of stanozolol is a water based injectable steroid that is derived from DHT. They are chemically identical with the exception of being either water or oil based as opposed to being presented in a tablet of capsule. Therefore, both the oral and injectable forms are c17-alpha-alkylated, to survive oral administration. This of course makes both the injectable form liver toxic (on the second pass) and the oral form liver toxic (on the first pass). Winstrol (Stanozolol) is a really interesting variant of Dihydrotestosterone. It’s been modified at the A-ring (there’s 4 rings on steroids usually), to make another whole “ring” called a pyrazol group. There’s only one other steroid I’ve ever seen that has a similar modification. Winstrol is a commonly used anabolic steroid for cutting cycles, and certainly it’s been shown clinically to not elicit any really impressive weight gain (if any at all). It’s usually seen as a less expensive alternative to Anavar. And just like Anavar and other DHT derivations, it can not convert to estrogen at any dose, and is not progestenic. As with Proviron, another DHT derived oral steroid, Winstrol may be useful in any cycle (perhaps even bulking) in order to lower Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. One of the properties of Winstrol is it’s profound ability to lower SHBG much more than other steroids. This could make more testosterone (or whatever steroids you are using) more likely to remain unbound and therefore active. A nice quality look can be attained with the use of Winstrol in a decent cutting cycle, but having it in a heavy bulking cycle could end up being problematic, as people often get sore joints from using it for extended periods of time. Stanozolol is an alkylated compound, which means that it’s been specifically altered to endure the first pass through the liver without being destroyed. And since the injectable version is simply a suspended version of the same compound, it’s able to be orally ingested instead of injected. However, since it is alkylated, it is also pretty liver toxic, having one of the worst hepatoxicity (mg for mg) of any steroid. As regards cholesterol, and it’s quite harsh on both LDL and HDL, and cardiac hypertrophy could be a possible concern with Winstrol also. Needless to say, most men don’t use Winstrol for very long in their cycles, and limit it to about 6 weeks or so at 50-100mgs every day (and yes, the same dosing applies for the injectable or the oral). Women typically use 10-25mgs per day, with the high end of that being reserved for competitive bodybuilders and figure competitors. Of course, acne, hairloss and (in women) clitoral hypertrophy are very real concerns. As it is available in both an oral form as well as an injectable form, and both contain the same compound, you might find this next part odd, but the injectable route actually produces greater nitrogen retention. Another counterintuitive fact about Winstrol is that although the anabolic rating of this product is very high, not too many people report much weight gain off of it. Also, it has a very weak Androgen Receptor binding ability, which is kind of odd for a drug with Winstrol’s effects. unusual for a “cutting” steroid. Protein synthesis is reasonably high with Winstrol, although weight gain is low, paradoxically. In all, this is a very odd compound, from a chemical/biological point of view. My personal experience with it was that it can be used as a cheap substitute for Anavar, although I prefer the latter. Also, the injections hurt like hell..

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 04:02 PM
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If you want to run tren, go with:
Tren ace 150mg eod wk1-8
Test prop 150mg eod wk1-8
Winny 50mg ed wk3-8
aromasin 25mg ed wk1-10
cabergoline 0.5mg e4d wk1-10

PCT: start the day after your last inject
HCG 1000IU eod wk1-3
Clomid 150mg day1, 100mg day2-7, 50mg day8-35
Nolva 20mg ed wk1-5

dont skimp on the aromasin (or adex) and cabergoline...

Or you could substitute NPP for the tren. Everybody that I know that uses NPP loves it. It can be shot e3d since its half-life is 5days.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 08:27 PM
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i got 250 mg omnadren with me
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
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i got 250 mg omnadren with me
congrats

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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 11:16 PM
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Gosh, what about taking just 1 item, to get decent moderate results, low toxicity.
To emphasize or give a boost to the workouts that I'm doing now.

What would that be, and what amount, what frequency?

I wouldn't want to be a walking pharmacy, even though I'd like to be swoll up.


Jay Johnson
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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Johnson
Gosh, what about taking just 1 item, to get decent moderate results, low toxicity.
To emphasize or give a boost to the workouts that I'm doing now.

What would that be, and what amount, what frequency?

I wouldn't want to be a walking pharmacy, even though I'd like to be swoll up.


Jay Johnson
Go with Primobolan or Avavar. Little to no sides with no estrogen problems. My girlfriend is on that and she is getting jacked.

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-21-2007, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Johnson
Gosh, what about taking just 1 item, to get decent moderate results, low toxicity.
To emphasize or give a boost to the workouts that I'm doing now.

What would that be, and what amount, what frequency?

I wouldn't want to be a walking pharmacy, even though I'd like to be swoll up.


Jay Johnson
Anavar for pills..and deca for injections....some people like pill beter than to shot up

Anavar is pretty expensive

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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls1eater
Anavar for pills..and deca for injections....some people like pill beter than to shot up

Anavar is pretty expensive

Is there an upper age limit you should not use Anavar? I'm talking for an individual who is 30 something.

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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fork
Is there an upper age limit you should not use Anavar? I'm talking for an individual who is 30 something.
Your age is fine. As far as doing Deca by itself that is just plain stupid. Throw some test in with it.

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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fork
Is there an upper age limit you should not use Anavar? I'm talking for an individual who is 30 something.
no it would actually be good for you anavar has been compared to growth...ask debracas these types of ???'s he is a doctor

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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badjimmihat
test, deca, and anadrol for the first cycle (10 weeks) are HUGE results, but dont take anadrol much longer than 6 weeks 10 weeks MAX, its bad on your liver. eat right the entire time, plenty of sleep, m-f workout, different body part a day.

is this ok with you dav? not bein a smartass...

this is a bulking cycle if u want to lose fat test prop. and winny tabs or inject, inject is my favo. inject everday
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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewayne6243
Your age is fine. As far as doing Deca by itself that is just plain stupid. Throw some test in with it.



unless you want some BITCH TITS LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 08:25 PM
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a good cycle for a starter would be
125mg test prop. eod{every other day}
50mg winny tabs or inject eod
run this for six weeks and then drop the winny and pick up some fina and run fina and prop for 8 more weeks
finaplex 75-125 mg every other day just like the others
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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 08:28 PM
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ohh at the end of the cycle use some clomid to come off with 2 weeks before your out of jucie and use an anti-e {nolvdex}so you don't get bitch tits
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 01:28 AM
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Thats crazy recommending tren as a first cycle man...test/deca is a safe alternative...heck, a test only cycle will get people started nicely. Anavar is a decent drug but quite expensive. Turinabol is a cheaper alternative, but no tab will get you the results that a depot injection will give you.
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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11.50fox
ohh at the end of the cycle use some clomid to come off with 2 weeks before your out of jucie and use an anti-e {nolvdex}so you don't get bitch tits

Its a little bit more complicated than that.... I would definitely run HCG in ALL PCT cycles. Add clomid and nolva for estrogen receptor inhibition and an aromatase inhibitor (ie arimidex or aromasin) as well. You want your estrogen level less than 30...around 20 in best. Too much estrogen blockade is as bad as not enough. That is why frequent blood tests are very helpful. Here is what I recommend for ALL post cycle recoveries...

HCG 1000IU eod for 3wks plus;
clomid 150mg day1, 100mg day2-7, 50mg day8-25
nolvadex 20mg ed day1-35
arimidex 1mg ed throughout cycle (or aromasin 25mg)
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post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas
Its a little bit more complicated than that.... I would definitely run HCG in ALL PCT cycles. Add clomid and nolva for estrogen receptor inhibition and an aromatase inhibitor (ie arimidex or aromasin) as well. You want your estrogen level less than 30...around 20 in best. Too much estrogen blockade is as bad as not enough. That is why frequent blood tests are very helpful. Here is what I recommend for ALL post cycle recoveries...

HCG 1000IU eod for 3wks plus;
clomid 150mg day1, 100mg day2-7, 50mg day8-25
nolvadex 20mg ed day1-35
arimidex 1mg ed throughout cycle (or aromasin 25mg)
I have seen a lot of Pro's talking about running HCG during the cycle instead of in the PTC. Ever heard of this? Is there a reason for this?

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post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewayne6243
I have seen a lot of Pro's talking about running HCG during the cycle instead of in the PTC. Ever heard of this? Is there a reason for this?

Yep...
"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."
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post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas
Yep...
"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."

That is some good advice. I am going to post this on the big boys site.

Thanks

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amackwantsabeast
Ive taken deca with huge results and only side-affect was a little more anger at times
you are the kind of people that make steroids look bad.

just an FWI you never run a Deca only cylce, one of the worst thins you can do.


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post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 04:23 PM
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actually, many people run deca only cycles. well, usually with something like dianabol for the first 4wks. Some are more prone to progesterone side effects and need the testosterone in there to keep the libido up. But, it is sometimes more difficult to recover from a deca only cycle compared to one with test...
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post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewayne6243
That is some good advice. I am going to post this on the big boys site.

Thanks
This is Swale's HCG protocol...hence the quotes.

You frequent those AAS boards? I try to stay away from them because there are a bunch of tools at those places that have little to no knowledge of endocrinology and pharmacology and think that since they have shoved a few drugs in their asses that that gives them a PhD...that along with the huge mood swings results in many inflammatory conversations...and harmful recommendations.
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