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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Cardio question

Im too lazy and dumb to post a poll; but how many of ya'll that have cardio in your routines do it A) in the gym or B) outside. And what are your reasons for each? I personally can't stand doing cardio indoors even if it is more conveniant.
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:20 PM
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I do ,y cardio outside (jogging) because I get bored on stationary machines, and I do it first thing in the morning, before breakfast. No matter what kind of cardio you do, right after you wakeup is the best time to do it, as you have just been in a 6-8 hour fast, and your body will get into the fat burning zone much quicker.

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raven
I do ,y cardio outside (jogging) because I get bored on stationary machines, and I do it first thing in the morning, before breakfast. No matter what kind of cardio you do, right after you wakeup is the best time to do it, as you have just been in a 6-8 hour fast, and your body will get into the fat burning zone much quicker.
ran cc and track for almost 7years plus the whole marine corps thing your preaching to the choir just wanted to know why and where people do their cardio
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-30-2006, 08:38 AM
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As the Raven says... first morning cardio does cardio/endurance training first thing in the morning (which should, if you are sleeping 8 hours, be a 8-12 hour fast) will enhance lipid oxidation.

Also, while I don't have the study handy, outdoor cardio will burn more calories than inside on the treadmill. Regardless of that, I'd go stir crazy doing endurance training inside except for the pool.

The interesting thing I remember about the study was running at 5mph vs. 6mph amounted to only about an extra 10 calories an hour whereas biking 15mph vs. 17 mphs was like a 100 calorie an hour difference.

I'm almost completely rehabbed now, so approximately 80% of my endurance training is done outside. I was 100% inside for a couple of months during rehab which drove me crazy. I love being outdoors. But sometimes you have to do it inside (like yesterday!)

I don't care about fat loss as much as performance while training so I usually take in 300-400 calories prior to my cardio. When I'm 100% I'm doing 15-20 hours per week training, right now I'm 12-15 hours per week (swim, bike, run, weights). So I typically don't worry about fat burning. I regulate the diet when I get chubby (like now, which really amounts to drinking less beer!)

Just prior to my achilles rupture I started doing trail running a few times a week instead of pounding the pavement and really enjoyed it. So once I'm complete again, I'll most likely do 50/50 road vs. trail running. I'm really interested in doing some ultras on the trails in 2007: Sunmart 50 miler and the Odyssey Off-Road Triathlon which is 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile mountain bike, 26.2 mile trail run. The Odyssey will take almost 20 hours to complete.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-30-2006, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
As the Raven says... first morning cardio does cardio/endurance training first thing in the morning (which should, if you are sleeping 8 hours, be a 8-12 hour fast) will enhance lipid oxidation.

Also, while I don't have the study handy, outdoor cardio will burn more calories than inside on the treadmill. Regardless of that, I'd go stir crazy doing endurance training inside except for the pool.

The interesting thing I remember about the study was running at 5mph vs. 6mph amounted to only about an extra 10 calories an hour whereas biking 15mph vs. 17 mphs was like a 100 calorie an hour difference.

I'm almost completely rehabbed now, so approximately 80% of my endurance training is done outside. I was 100% inside for a couple of months during rehab which drove me crazy. I love being outdoors. But sometimes you have to do it inside (like yesterday!)

I don't care about fat loss as much as performance while training so I usually take in 300-400 calories prior to my cardio. When I'm 100% I'm doing 15-20 hours per week training, right now I'm 12-15 hours per week (swim, bike, run, weights). So I typically don't worry about fat burning. I regulate the diet when I get chubby (like now, which really amounts to drinking less beer!)

Just prior to my achilles rupture I started doing trail running a few times a week instead of pounding the pavement and really enjoyed it. So once I'm complete again, I'll most likely do 50/50 road vs. trail running. I'm really interested in doing some ultras on the trails in 2007: Sunmart 50 miler and the Odyssey Off-Road Triathlon which is 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile mountain bike, 26.2 mile trail run. The Odyssey will take almost 20 hours to complete.

Just want to see what my body and mind can stand.
Trail running is def. my favorite way to get around on my feet
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-30-2006, 10:53 AM
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90% inside and 10% outside, I love 2 run!
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-30-2006, 11:32 AM
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30 min of cardio everyday before your workout. if your trying to get bigger,and lose bodyfat
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-30-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11.50fox
30 min of cardio everyday before your workout. if your trying to get bigger,and lose bodyfat
That's a lot of cardio for someone trying to get bigger.

I do cardio outdoors whenever I can, I can't fucking stand running on treadmills or biking on a machine. So typically I'm only indoors if I'm erging that day. Otherwise running/biking outside.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 09:14 AM
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Im trying to cut as much cardio as possible right now.
Im not doing much but my BF keeps dropping.
I am spending about 2.5hrs a day in the gym though.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRAYHORSE
Im trying to cut as much cardio as possible right now.
Im not doing much but my BF keeps dropping.
I am spending about 2.5hrs a day in the gym though.
2.5 hours a day in the gym will do that to you.

You are probably burning 350-400 calories lifting weights.

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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlude
That's a lot of cardio for someone trying to get bigger.

I do cardio outdoors whenever I can, I can't fucking stand running on treadmills or biking on a machine. So typically I'm only indoors if I'm erging that day. Otherwise running/biking outside.

30 minutes really isnt alot of cardio for someone trying to get bigger. your supposed to get in 30 minutes before weight training to get your blood circulating. anyways, 30 minutes of medium paced cardio is around 50 calories... drink an extra gatorade and your even... lol
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedleSharp
30 minutes really isnt alot of cardio for someone trying to get bigger. your supposed to get in 30 minutes before weight training to get your blood circulating. anyways, 30 minutes of medium paced cardio is around 50 calories... drink an extra gatorade and your even... lol
As long as it isn't before your leg workout. Why would you want to use up your glycogen stores in your legs prior to a leg workout?

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedleSharp
30 minutes really isnt alot of cardio for someone trying to get bigger. your supposed to get in 30 minutes before weight training to get your blood circulating. anyways, 30 minutes of medium paced cardio is around 50 calories... drink an extra gatorade and your even... lol
Unfortunately, energy restoration doesn't work like that. You can't just use up some of the energy in your muscles then drink a gatorade and you're good to go.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 04:25 PM
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Unfortunately, energy restoration doesn't work like that. You can't just use up some of the energy in your muscles then drink a gatorade and you're good to go.
i was exagerating with the gatorade a little lol... didnt mean for it to be taken seriously. my point is that i believe a light run is necessary even when you are bulking. i started out all my workouts with a 20 minute jog on the olyptical and still made vast strength and size gains. just my personal opinion about the whole thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
As long as it isn't before your leg workout. Why would you want to use up your glycogen stores in your legs prior to a leg workout?
that is true. But most the people that are all worried about bulking up arent worried too much about legs ! you still need to get stretched and warmed up before you hit 400lbs on a squat rack... i normally try to cut warm up a little short 5 or 10 minutes but never skip...
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedleSharp
that is true. But most the people that are all worried about bulking up arent worried too much about legs ! you still need to get stretched and warmed up before you hit 400lbs on a squat rack... i normally try to cut warm up a little short 5 or 10 minutes but never skip...
Not saying don't warm up. Warm up is not cardio.

Do whatever works for you is the ultimate answer. Southern Cross University (Australia, highly regarded school for exercise physiology) did a study that concluded strength was diminished for up to 6 hours after 30 minutes of cycling. The other interesting conclusion was that training in a diminished state, over time, will actually lead to a decrease over time.

I'm more into endurance than size and strength so I always do swimming, biking, running before weights. But if I was interested in gaining size, or a "body builder" type physique, I'd most defintely be doing proper cardio after weights or on my non-weight lifting days.

Oh yea, you should also stretch after weights, not before. Again it is counter-productive. You don't need a terrific range of motion. Weight training requires contraction... by stretching you loosen the muscle fiber reduces the ability of the muscle to contract to move the heavy weight.

But again, do what makes you feel comfortable, if it works for you that is all that matters.

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedleSharp
i was exagerating with the gatorade a little lol... didnt mean for it to be taken seriously. my point is that i believe a light run is necessary even when you are bulking. i started out all my workouts with a 20 minute jog on the olyptical and still made vast strength and size gains. just my personal opinion about the whole thing


that is true. But most the people that are all worried about bulking up arent worried too much about legs ! you still need to get stretched and warmed up before you hit 400lbs on a squat rack... i normally try to cut warm up a little short 5 or 10 minutes but never skip...
I agree, warm up. But back to what I said, 30 minutes of cardion prelifting is a lot for someone trying to bulk. That's a bit past a warm up, doncha think?
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Not saying don't warm up. Warm up is not cardio.

Do whatever works for you is the ultimate answer. Southern Cross University (Australia, highly regarded school for exercise physiology) did a study that concluded strength was diminished for up to 6 hours after 30 minutes of cycling. The other interesting conclusion was that training in a diminished state, over time, will actually lead to a decrease over time.

I'm more into endurance than size and strength so I always do swimming, biking, running before weights. But if I was interested in gaining size, or a "body builder" type physique, I'd most defintely be doing proper cardio after weights or on my non-weight lifting days.

Oh yea, you should also stretch after weights, not before. Again it is counter-productive. You don't need a terrific range of motion. Weight training requires contraction... by stretching you loosen the muscle fiber reduces the ability of the muscle to contract to move the heavy weight.
But again, do what makes you feel comfortable, if it works for you that is all that matters.
really???? wow... never woulda thought that. but dont u increase the chance of pulling something if you dont stretch? the few times that i was lazy and didnt stretch i pulled a muscle. so what would u in place of streching to reduce injuries? or is that not possible?

and yes i was always told stretching after your lift is even more important than before lifting
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 10:27 AM
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i kinda know what i'm talking about 5'9" 215lbs 33" waist 53" coat size 17 1/2" arms 18" neck. and i do 30 min before i workout
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by exlude
I agree, warm up. But back to what I said, 30 minutes of cardion prelifting is a lot for someone trying to bulk. That's a bit past a warm up, doncha think?






gaining weight doesn't mean bulk up,u can gain lean muscle with out bulking! when i bulk i don't worry about trying to stay slim.when i stop is when i start cutting and doing cardio
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
As the Raven says... first morning cardio does cardio/endurance training first thing in the morning (which should, if you are sleeping 8 hours, be a 8-12 hour fast) will enhance lipid oxidation.
If this enhances lipid oxidation since it's right after a fast, wouldn't you also lose more muscle mass during this time as opposed to doing the cardio when not hungry? It's my understanding that when the body has sufficient glycogen, the body uses that up first thus preserving the muscles, but when the glycogen stores are used up, the body extracts energy from muscles first since they yield a better energy output. Fat get's used as well, but muscles are the primary source since it's a better source

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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 11.50fox
gaining weight doesn't mean bulk up,u can gain lean muscle with out bulking! when i bulk i don't worry about trying to stay slim.when i stop is when i start cutting and doing cardio
I only call gaining lean mass bulking, otherwise you're just getting fat

But, when you do large(r) amounts of cardio...you don't just burn fat.
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 10:19 AM
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I only call gaining lean mass bulking, otherwise you're just getting fat

But, when you do large(r) amounts of cardio...you don't just burn fat.


have you saw jay culter in the off season nuff said about bulking and it not being lean muscle!!! so thanks for putting your foot in your mouth
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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 11:10 AM
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have you saw jay culter in the off season nuff said about bulking and it not being lean muscle!!! so thanks for putting your foot in your mouth
Steroids are a wonderful drug.

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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 11:31 AM
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If this enhances lipid oxidation since it's right after a fast, wouldn't you also lose more muscle mass during this time as opposed to doing the cardio when not hungry? It's my understanding that when the body has sufficient glycogen, the body uses that up first thus preserving the muscles, but when the glycogen stores are used up, the body extracts energy from muscles first since they yield a better energy output. Fat get's used as well, but muscles are the primary source since it's a better source
No, not necessarily. Your body is pretty efficient. If you keep yourself in an aerobic energy mode where your body can use fat for energy. Once you get into the anaerobic stage your body doesn't have enough oxygen to use fat as a fuel source.

But, all in all, you never use 100% of the aerobic pathway or 100% of the anaerobic pathway during any exercise. There always is a mix. Say there is a 50/50 mix.

Not sure where you get "muscles" as a primary source of energy.

The last 2-3 reps of weight lifting are the most beneficial. If you used up all your anaerobic energy doing cardio your muscles won't have it available for the last 2-3 reps.

Not to say you shouldn't warm up. 10 minutes or so of cardio.

Having said all that I never do any type of exercise on an empty stomach. I also have 200-300 calories 30 minutes/1 hour before I do anything: swim, bike, run, weights, etc. Fact of the matter if your interested in burning fat (leaning the body) the most beneficial period of fat loss is in the 2 hours after working out as your core temperature returns to normal.

If I'm out running for 2-3 hours or biking for 4-5-6 hours I'll even eat on the run or the bike (300 calories per hour).

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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 12:11 PM
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have you saw jay culter in the off season nuff said about bulking and it not being lean muscle!!! so thanks for putting your foot in your mouth
We're discussing 'normal' natural lifter's here, which is no comparison to a drugged up IFBB pro. Throw the right drugs into the mix, and we could be telling hime to lift hard and sit on his ass the rest of the day, and the fat will melt away.

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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by The Raven
We're discussing 'normal' natural lifter's here, which is no comparison to a drugged up IFBB pro. Throw the right drugs into the mix, and we could be telling hime to lift hard and sit on his ass the rest of the day, and the fat will melt away.



wow i can tell you know nothing about roids! they help but you still have to put in the work at the gym.their not magical.you still have to bust your ass to get results!!!!!so any time you bulk you eat healthy just a lot more of it, with about no cardio,then when you start to cut,thats when cardio and cutting the diet down comes into effect. roids are kinda like the spray,you can buy the spray and not hook it up to your car and no results. you can buy roids and not workout and no results
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2007, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 11.50fox
wow i can tell you know nothing about roids! they help but you still have to put in the work at the gym.their not magical.you still have to bust your ass to get results!!!!!so any time you bulk you eat healthy just a lot more of it, with about no cardio,then when you start to cut,thats when cardio and cutting the diet down comes into effect. roids are kinda like the spray,you can buy the spray and not hook it up to your car and no results. you can buy roids and not workout and no results
For the love of God, stop talking!
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2007, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 11.50fox
wow i can tell you know nothing about roids! they help but you still have to put in the work at the gym.their not magical.you still have to bust your ass to get results!!!!!so any time you bulk you eat healthy just a lot more of it, with about no cardio,then when you start to cut,thats when cardio and cutting the diet down comes into effect. roids are kinda like the spray,you can buy the spray and not hook it up to your car and no results. you can buy roids and not workout and no results
LMAO

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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2007, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11.50fox
wow i can tell you know nothing about roids! they help but you still have to put in the work at the gym.their not magical.you still have to bust your ass to get results!!!!!so any time you bulk you eat healthy just a lot more of it, with about no cardio,then when you start to cut,thats when cardio and cutting the diet down comes into effect. roids are kinda like the spray,you can buy the spray and not hook it up to your car and no results. you can buy roids and not workout and no results
Are you a doctor? Man, you know a lot.
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Not sure where you get "muscles" as a primary source of energy.
I'd have to go back to my notes, but I remember hearing in my nutrition class that once your glycogen stores are used up, then muscle and fat gets used up to supply the necessary energy, and when that happens, usually muscle provides a better source. Maybe my memory is slipping on this issue, I'll try to find something on the internet to back up my statement.

Just curious, but why is your monounsaturated fat consumption disproportionately higher then your polyunsaturated fat consumption?

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post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2007, 11:42 AM
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Just curious, but why is your monounsaturated fat consumption disproportionately higher then your polyunsaturated fat consumption?
Monounsaturated-
* helps lower total blood cholesterol level
* raises good (HDL) cholesterol and lowers bad (LDL) cholestorol
* I love olive oil

Polyunsaturated
* lowers both HDL and LDL
* has been implicated in colon cancer
* found in coconut, palm oils (which I don't eat)

One of my favorite treats is dipping homemade bread in olive oil/roasted garlic.

In a typical diet total fat should be less than 30% and a 1/3 of that 30% should be polyunsaturated, the remainer should be monounsaturated. In reality that is tough, so I don't mind a little saturated fat in there as well.

But alot of it has to do with my obession with endurance sports. My diet is setup to maximize things like running marathons and triathlons, etc. and I tend to look for studies (either scientific or by people who compete) and what they do and why.

I plan training on a yearly basis and has four distinct periods: prep, base, build, peak. My diet is modified during each period. For example, during the build phases (where I'm piling up mileage) I'll actually go to about 35% fat in my diet and drop the carbs (protein stays constant.) This is in an attempt to give my body a chance to develop the pathways/experience of having fat stores to burn during intense activity.

I'll also "fat load" for a couple of days before I "carb load" before a race.

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post #32 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-10-2007, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 11.50fox
30 min of cardio everyday before your workout. if your trying to get bigger,and lose bodyfat
I was told recently after you are done lifting, if you do 15 minutes of cardio immediately then it would be equal to doing 30 minutes of cardio alone some other time.

The only similar activity I would want to do pre-lifting would be a warmup, fairly low level jsut to get the heart pumping for a few minutes. But I tend do a few sets of bench at really low weight/high reps before I lift for simmilar results pre-lifting.
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post #33 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-10-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra

In a typical diet total fat should be less than 30% and a 1/3 of that 30% should be polyunsaturated, the remainer should be monounsaturated. In reality that is tough, so I don't mind a little saturated fat in there as well.
I try as much as I can to stay away from saturated fat all together. It is almost impossible, but I try.
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post #34 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-11-2007, 02:39 AM
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One of my favorite treats is dipping homemade bread in olive oil/roasted garlic.
That's good stuff, I just bought this "garlic" oil the other day, you might want to try that

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