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haha must suck to be you guys

8K views 251 replies 36 participants last post by  Josh 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
seriously, how can u go on beleiving all that crap? the bible is fiction people. but i guess most of u like believing there is a point to your life other than dying. you do realize that is all you get out of life right? you live so that one day you can die. thats pretty much it. no heaven, no hell, no ever merciful god. on to that whole merciful and all caring bs, now thats a load of crap if i ever heard one. anyone notice how in the bible it mentions god being one vengeful mother? i believe he sent spirits into peoples bodies and called down some massive flood as well.

In all honesty all religions are made by us. they only have any power because we choose to give them power. thats about it, look at the other religions that came before us, the romans, egyptians, mormons, all of them dont exist anymore, why? bc we realized how full of crap they are. basically those that believe feel the need to explain things they cant understand or refuse to understand.

edited for bad word
 
#27 · (Edited)
In this case there is "know" and know. You "know" something because you feel soooo strongly about it that, in your own mind, there is nothing to argue against it.

But to actually know something you would have to have some bullet proof evidence, which neither side has. I'm sure you feel very powerful about how Jesus has influence your life, but that's what it is...a feeling, not necessarily actual knowledge. This gets real tricky when dealing with spiritual beings...

Anyway, most of my family is from South Carolina...mostly Methodist. I was born in raised in Dallas as a Presbyterian. Left that in search of my own answers as a self declared atheist. Found an explanation through Daoism that still suited my atheism.

Daoism has several interpretations (and not all are atheist), but modern Daoism is mostly atheist and stems from Japan. What Daoists believe is that there is a certain order to this world, a higher order of sorts. Now, this order (in my mind) is not to be confused with spiritual influence. Most of us know my order as laws of physics, relativity, and mostly circumstance. It's a very personalized and Westernized version of the religion, but it suits me. And as wacky as some people may deem me, I very much enjoy nature and rock gardens...and just sitting with myself or my girlfriend, in light meditation/reflection.
 
#28 ·
By the way, let me draw a fine line right now:

I believe I could fully believe in something while admitting I might be wrong. I accept the human mind's fallibility and go with it. By admitting you could be wrong you are in no way saying that what you believe is not what is true, you are just embracing the fallibility of the human mind and it's limited actual knowledge.
 
#29 ·
exlude said:
In this case there is "know" and know. You "know" something because you feel soooo strongly about it that, in your own mind, there is nothing to argue against it.

But to actually know something you would have to have some bullet proof evidence, which neither side has. I'm sure you feel very powerful about how Jesus has influence your life, but that's what it is...a feeling, not necessarily actual knowledge. This gets real tricky when dealing with spiritual beings...

Anyway, most of my family is from South Carolina...mostly Methodist. I was born in raised in Dallas as a Presbyterian. Left that in search of my own answers as a self declared atheist. Found an explanation through Daoism that still suited my atheism.

Daoism has several interpretations (and not all are atheist), but modern Daoism is mostly atheist and stems from Japan. What Daoists believe is that there is a certain order to this world, a higher order of sorts. Now, this order (in my mind) is not to be confused with spiritual influence. Most of us know my order as laws of physics, relativity, and mostly circumstance. It's a very personalized and Westernized version of the religion, but it suits me. And as wacky as some people may deem me, I very much enjoy nature and rock gardens...and just sitting with myself or my girlfriend, in light meditation/reflection.
Ok Dan, I do not know much at all about Daoism, I believe though that is is very similar to Taoism which has a background in sorcery, alchemy, divination and magic.

My question to you is, since I dont know alot about it, when you die what happens? Do you cease to exist, move on to a greater consciousness, reincarnation?

Randy
 
#30 ·
MoonDog said:
Ok Dan, I do not know much at all about Daoism, I believe though that is is very similar to Taoism which has a background in sorcery, alchemy, divination and magic.

My question to you is, since I dont know alot about it, when you die what happens? Do you cease to exist, move on to a greater consciousness, reincarnation?

Randy
Daoism is Taoism, just a different spelling :p . It definetely has roots in ancient Eastern beliefs of divination and polytheism, which tend to be associated with ancient sorcery (I don't think so about alchemy though). But those are simply roots and not at all what I believe in.

As for post-mordem experience:
It really depends on what "version" you believe, lol. What I believe is more related to the African "circle of life" than anything else. Again relating to such a greater order or balance to the world and nature. (This is the more common belief.)

Some Daoist belive in reincarnation. Fewer believe in the transformation to a god like state, or being a follower of certain god's in the afterlife. The most common practice of Daoism today is atheism, with a strong connection to the order and cycle of nature. However, there are few who remain and practice the polytheistic beliefs.
 
#32 ·
<quote>
Why would I have to admit I could be wrong when Jesus Christ changed my life...explain this to me
</quote>


Super. Excellent. Fine. Homer Simpson changed mine (I now say "doh!").

Your behavior, your personal views, even your physical image can be changed by many entities (physical, spiritual, or imaginary). Sun Tzu is a man I never met, but I did read a translation of something he wrote and, be it small, changed my life. My point is this: For better or worse, everything "changes" your life.
 
#33 ·
bhoffman67 said:
<quote>
Why would I have to admit I could be wrong when Jesus Christ changed my life...explain this to me
</quote>
I think because the facts are, "You" made the changes to your life based on a man said to have died thousands of years ago. Since it is fact he died then and you are alive now it would be hard to conclude he actually changed your life. He or the belief in him may have influenced your chnage thou.
 
#35 ·
exlude said:
N2O explained it pretty well. And we can't be positive Jesus even existed...

So IF Jesus Christ did not really exist, it would be pretty silly to say he changed your life.
I used to not believe in Jesus, then one day i met him, and he cut my grass. He does good work and his wife sold tamalas on the corner. And he had a 4x4 trans Am.:D
 
#36 ·
exlude said:
N2O explained it pretty well. And we can't be positive Jesus even existed...

So IF Jesus Christ did not really exist, it would be pretty silly to say he changed your life.
Jesus is the most documented person in history. Dont you think it would be rather ignorant to document someones life if they never existed? And dont you also think that it would be rather ignorant to think a person never existed even though we have history that proves otherwise?
 
#38 ·
MoonDog said:
Jesus is the most documented person in history. Dont you think it would be rather ignorant to document someones life if they never existed? And dont you also think that it would be rather ignorant to think a person never existed even though we have history that proves otherwise?
Santa Clause along with many others are documented. Do you belive in Santa Clause simply because it is written that he exist to this day?:D
 
#39 ·
N2Otorious said:
Santa Clause along with many others are documented. Do you belive in Santa Clause simply because it is written that he exist to this day?:D
Actually, St Nicholas did exist in Turkey and actually did give gifts to children. :p
 
#40 ·
MoonDog said:
Actually, St Nicholas did exist in Turkey and actually did give gifts to children. :p
LOL, RIGHT!!!! now step 2...

It is also documented he travel the world in 1 night giving gifts and stocking full of coal depending on if you were good or bad throughout the year. Now it is easy to believe there was a man named St. Niccholas(Santa Clause), but the hard part is the magical flying raindeers, sliding down chimmenys, the shear number of starts and stops need to comeplete the trip in only a few hours are IMPOSSIBLE.:p

But because it is documented I should just accept it? :D
 
#41 ·
N2Otorious said:
LOL, RIGHT!!!! now step 2...

It is also documented he travel the world in 1 night giving gifts and stocking full of coal depending on if you were good or bad throughout the year. Now it is easy to believe there was a man named St. Niccholas(Santa Clause), but the hard part is the magical flying raindeers, sliding down chimmenys, the shear number of starts and stops need to comeplete the trip in only a few hours are IMPOSSIBLE.:p

But because it is documented I should just accept it? :D
And this documentation about flying reindeers that you are talking about is a childrens book, right?

Besides, you did know that you can go to www.noradsanta.org and track his movements across the globe.
 
#42 ·
to be honest im not really sure what i believe. do i think there is a "god" up their watching us? no. im sure their are higher beings somewhere out their in the universe. but where we created out of some higher beings whim? doesnt seem very logical to me. and he supposedly is up their watching us, and knows everything, just seems pretty far fetched to me.

and bc i make spelling mistakes i must be 10 years old? way to comment on what i said. doesnt really matter if i make spelling mistakes on the internet. im not ten and you know im not ten. just like you know exactly what the 1994 in my name stands for. but act like u dont all you want.

the way i look at it is, its my life therefore i will think what i want. ive read parts of the bible and it seems to like to contradict itself a lot. and there is the fact that the bible was written by some guys who claim to have hung out with jesus.
 
#43 ·
MoonDog said:
Jesus is the most documented person in history. Dont you think it would be rather ignorant to document someones life if they never existed? And dont you also think that it would be rather ignorant to think a person never existed even though we have history that proves otherwise?
But we don't really have such heavy proof, because if you notice through such documentation...explanations of him change quite extensively.

Jesus could very easily be a more detailed version of how the OT stories are written. You have a good story, of a good man, who very well could have done much of what is written in the NT...was the son of God, maybe not?

Of course, it's all theory, but maybe Jesus was a good man, who did die on the cross for his beliefs. But...(not trying to offend anyone) maybe he was just a bit looney and believed he was the son of God, when he really wasn't. Because, maybe, there is no God.

Just like the OT stories, it is passed down from mouth to mouth, growing more elaborate story by story and consequently further from the truth. Now these stories get popular, so many people know the general theme. It would be very easy for them to put these down in writting and you would see similarities.

Sit several Americans in a room today and ask them about George Washington's crossing the Delaware. Many would tell you of marvelous feat of bravery, as that is a common misconsception. Nevermind the fact that he actually broke a, then modern, law of war NOT to fight on Christmas. Not to get off on a tangent, but you can see how skewed story telling can be...even in more modern times, and even when documented.
 
#47 ·
MoonDog said:
And this documentation about flying reindeers that you are talking about is a childrens book, right?

Besides, you did know that you can go to www.noradsanta.org and track his movements across the globe.
Childrens books, Yes.. But that is still doumentation design to make kids believe in something the authors wanted them to believe in.

Along these lines the bible was constructed for the same purpose to make belivers of the masses. An adult book if you will.:D

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are we to belive without proof that God is all knowing, all powerful, and perfect?
 
#48 ·
exlude said:
But we don't really have such heavy proof, because if you notice through such documentation...explanations of him change quite extensively.

Jesus could very easily be a more detailed version of how the OT stories are written. You have a good story, of a good man, who very well could have done much of what is written in the NT...was the son of God, maybe not?

Of course, it's all theory, but maybe Jesus was a good man, who did die on the cross for his beliefs. But...(not trying to offend anyone) maybe he was just a bit looney and believed he was the son of God, when he really wasn't. Because, maybe, there is no God.

Just like the OT stories, it is passed down from mouth to mouth, growing more elaborate story by story and consequently further from the truth. Now these stories get popular, so many people know the general theme. It would be very easy for them to put these down in writting and you would see similarities.

Sit several Americans in a room today and ask them about George Washington's crossing the Delaware. Many would tell you of marvelous feat of bravery, as that is a common misconsception. Nevermind the fact that he actually broke a, then modern, law of war NOT to fight on Christmas. Not to get off on a tangent, but you can see how skewed story telling can be...even in more modern times, and even when documented.
Whether you believe Jesus was God or not there are plenty of extra-Biblical writings that speak of Him. It is obsurd to think that He did not exist. If He were just a myth how would you explain the rapid spread of the Christian faith in the 1st century despite the severe persecution of the Jews and Romans? How would thousands of people suddenly believe in Him?

Your anology of the Americans sitting in a room does not stick. The NT was written within about ~60 years of Jesus' resurection and was written by eye witnesses. Contemorary Americans sitting in a room talking about George Washington 230 years after the fact does not come close to a parellel.

BTW,
The passing down of stories through time does not neccessarily corrupt the text.
 
#50 ·
Josh said:


BTW,
The passing down of stories through time does not neccessarily corrupt the text.
Really? Explain this contridiction then...

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
 
#51 ·
N2Otorious said:
Really? Explain this contridiction then...

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
How is this a contradiction? First off, Lukes story comes from eye witnesses, he was not personally there so he wrote what he could from what he was told. So even though it may differ it certainly doesnt contradict. The same basic story is still there and no one is to say that Jesus never said these words since they came from people who were actually at the cross during that time.

Matthew and John are the same, just because they dont read word for word you think they contradict?
Mat 27:48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
Mat 27:49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him.
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mar 15:36 And one ran and filled a sponge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.
Mar 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Joh 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
How do these differ, it looks like it reads the same the only difference is that John writes specifically what Jesus said and Matthew or Mark dont.

These books are written from different perspectives, one portrays Him as King, another as Shepard, Son of God, Savior. If they were all written with the same theme and the same words then we would not need five but one large book. You have to read all five in order to get the whole story, by reading only one a person cannot get a grasp on all that Jesus said, did or can do.
Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
 
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