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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Whos familiar with setting up home theatre systems?

I have always used the all in one kits the speakers, dvd player, etc. I want to get in on a better system and mainly a cleaner install. I have budgeted myself $1000 or less. My plans are to run an HDMI cable from my TV (already installed above the fireplace) through the attic to the reciever in a closet. Have my electronics all in the closet as well then run an IR repeater to the TV also to get everything hidden out of sight.

To do this, what all will I need.

Receiver options - Denon AVR-591 or Onkyo SR608 (if i can find it on sale again)

4 in ceiling speakers, center speaker, and subwoofer

IR repeater

HDMI wall plate for tv to plug into

Am I missing anything here? Any suggestions or opinions on this?

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 07:01 PM
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I would make sure that closet has enough area for that heat to get away from, overall bad idea really.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 07:15 PM
Robert Galarga
 
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still in frisco mark? I might be able to help you

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 09:06 PM
Lifer
 
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Originally Posted by ozzeran View Post
I would make sure that closet has enough area for that heat to get away from, overall bad idea really.
X2. I'm especially not a fan of the ceiling speaker goal.

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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still in frisco mark? I might be able to help you
nahh, i just moved to kaufman

i plan on putting a fan in the closet and it will have a screen type of door to keep the hot air pushed out. as far as the ceiling speakers our house/room just wouldnt look right with speakers mounted on the corner of the walls

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 10:07 PM
Lifer
 
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Originally Posted by BlueLT1SS View Post
nahh, i just moved to kaufman

i plan on putting a fan in the closet and it will have a screen type of door to keep the hot air pushed out. as far as the ceiling speakers our house/room just wouldnt look right with speakers mounted on the corner of the walls
and it won't sound right with them mounted in the ceiling.

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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thats what someone else said, but i thought they are directional so you can aim toward center of room?

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 11:19 PM
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In the closet is a fine idea, you just have to take precautions. Trim the top and bottom of the door like 1/2" to an inch" and mount some fans to pull air in from the bottom and push out through the top, that way you have a circulation of air going through the closet. Or you can mount air duct covers on bottom and top and do the same thing, you can just wire up some computer fans to do the job, quiet and get the job done.

Set up wise, why dont you give nick a call. He loves this kind of stuff. Help with mine and I just have a basic set up, and made it sound so much better!
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 11:33 PM
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Speaking from an experience perspective...I would shy away from the Onkyo receiver. It looks good on paper and the salespeople are paid to talk highly about them. I've owned a couple of the higher-end Onkyo home theater receivers and they both had amplifier failures that were NOT associated with abuse. Their customer service and warranty repair procedure is among the worst I have ever dealt with. Simply stated...they don't honor their warranty as its printed. I've had a lot of happiness with Harmon Kardon, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, and even Pioneer (ELITE). Oh and roof speakers sound like crap. Go with IN-WALL or standard towers (my preference), and finally...if you are going to enclose your equipment in any kind of case, closet, etc...you better make damn sure it can breathe...receivers (regardless of brand) get DAMN hot when encased.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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wife is completely against exposed speakers. not familiar with in wall speakers but i will give those a look into. the closet will get plenty of breathing room so that should be fine and if not i will add more fan/air. i have decided to go with the denon avr-1611 model receiver.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueLT1SS View Post
thats what someone else said, but i thought they are directional so you can aim toward center of room?
You're still 80* off axis from the driver.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 01:45 AM
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I would second the warning about Onkyo reliability. When they work, they sound great, but they can be problematic.

I had the TX-SR606(the predecessor to that 608 you mentioned) and had HDMI handshake issues from day one. It would take forever to get it to establish a connection with DVR or PS3, and sometimes not connect at all. Over time, it got worse and worse, taking longer to complete the handshake. Eventually, it became unusable it was so bad.

I did some research and it was a known defect with the HDMI daughterboard due to excessive heat, and even when Onkyo fixed them, the replacement parts they used were faulty as well.

Luckily I had bought an instant replacement service plan from Fry's, so I was able to take it back up there and swap it for a mid-level Yamaha receiver, the 567. It gives up a little bit in terms of power, but the HDMI performance has been superb. I normally avoid buying service plans and this is the only one I have bought in the last 5 years, but it ended up being totally worth the $50 or whatever it cost me, as I was able to get a new $500 receiver after 3 years totally free.

Fry's also has some pretty good sales from time to time, and as much as I hate their customer service, they were good about honoring the service plan, so I would recommend buying one if you get a receiver there.

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 06:29 AM
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There are in-ceiling speakers with movable baskets that allow you to move the whole speaker something like 30 degrees and then an additional 10-20 degrees for the pivoting tweeter. Anyone who says that the in ceilings won't sound good hasn't heard a set used properly. I have done numerous installs on my own as well as dozens while working for a home theater business; and we used sonnance in ceiling speakers and the sound quality was phenomenal! I have also done a setup with monoprice 8" in ceilings and it sounded badass as well!


On your budget this is what I would look at doing, assuming you have 8-10' ceilings;

You have two options in my opinion.

1st option: use 4 in ceiling speakers for your front left and front right, and left rear and right rear:

2 sets of these and they are 15 degree angled and you can pivot the tweeter-I have installed these before and they sound great:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

2nd option is to only install one set of the ones listed above as your rears and then get an lcr bar for below your tv. It can be mounted to the fireplace or rest on a mantle. I have installed a couple of these and for the price the quality is equivalent to far more expensive ones out there:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...TOKEN=49557236

As far as hdmi cables go. Don't buy the hype! Monster and most other name brand store bought cables are no better than any mail order or supply house cables on the market, and there is plenty of research to prove this. Just buy the best quality for the length you need. I have used over 50 hdmi cables from monoprice with no issues. I like the 22awg HDMI cables they make and suggest a Ferrite core on each end. Not sure on the length of your run from tv through the attic to closet; but be aware that you will have some issues with hdcp handshake and such over about 40-50' especially with PS3 and xbox 360. I know from experience as I have a similar setup at my house and had to go back and rerun/route a shorted hdmi cable. Another option is hdmi over cat5e. I have installed them as well. Two options:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...02&cp_id=10240

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

good subwoofer for the money imho is the polk 10" psw. I have one as well as a $700 similar subwoofer and would say it is pretty nice and comparable for the money:

http://www.frys.com/product/5208177?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

these subs are cheaper and supposedly pretty good quality for the $

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...omo=&srchAttr=

Same thing with speaker wire. Don't buy the Monster hype. This wire is the same quality imo as Libery cables that we used in multi million dollar homes:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...09&cp_id=10239

Mounts:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...09&cp_id=10828

Lastly receivers-I would recommend Denon only because I have installed over 100 of them and have owned numerous Onkyo and Denons and can say there are far more problems with video, audio, and power issues with Onkyo; however Denons have been known to have an issue with some zone2 audio going out after a couple years, but typically this is due to heat. I like the Denon AVR 591 and 791 that are currently available at BB or Frys. Another option is to buy a re manufactured one online that is a better model spec wise just re manufactured:

http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecce/cate...facturer=Denon

IR kit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/XANTECH-480-85DK...item4152566af5

I recommended that one because that is a good fail safe brand; however their our cheaper ones out there. I just personally only like xantech.

Lastly cooling in the closet is the key to keeping your equipment working properly and for a long time. I would make sure you have plenty of air in at the bottom of the closet...ie vents in either the door or through the wall, and then some sort of thermostat controlled exhaust fan system. A simple affordable solution is a bathroom exhaust fan on an ac thermostat

Hopefully that helped some.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for the great info 2K2 LS1. I have just a couple more questions about what you posted.

if i run the cat6 through the wall to those hdmi plates am i understanding correctly that I will need to run to cat6 cables parallel to the plates?

i picked out a denon i was getting from amazon, but do you trust the refurbished models? is there a 90 warranty or better on these?

the IR repeater I picked was from Logitech and $59. Is there anything wrong with this compared to the one you posted?

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 08:16 AM
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Only issue with any IR kit is that certain ir kits and tv's can have interference...I would always suggest new over refurb; but if it is the only piece to put you over budget it may be worth a try; however I personally rather spend a little more and be rest assured it won't have issues. With the HDMI wall plate you do have to run 2 cat5e or cat6 cables, yes. Also if you go this route let me know as I live in the crandall area and can sell you a spare set I picked up for a room I decided to go another route with...
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 12:18 PM
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I'm using this: http://www.amazon.com/Acoustics-4043...dp/B001BLTDZA/

I have my receiver in an enclosed cabinet, nothing seen with doors closed.

The IR kit is perfect and has no interference. Running Fios box, HK receiver, and a PS3 using the PS3 Harmony adapter.

For cooling on my unit, I have two low-noise, high CFM 120mm PC fans, one blowing cool air in, and the other blowing hot air out (exit fan is nearest the receiver). Cabinet temps are virtually room temp because of this... I have the fans hooked up through an adapter that converts it to 110V and is plugged into the switched outlet on the back of my receiver... when receiver comes on (receiver runs for everything), fans come on. when receiver turns off, fans turn off.

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 12:40 PM
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Heat in the closet may be an issue.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 12:44 PM
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Heat in the closet may be an issue.
Unless he uses almost any sort of a fan or vent
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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I'm using this: http://www.amazon.com/Acoustics-4043...dp/B001BLTDZA/

I have my receiver in an enclosed cabinet, nothing seen with doors closed.

The IR kit is perfect and has no interference. Running Fios box, HK receiver, and a PS3 using the PS3 Harmony adapter.

For cooling on my unit, I have two low-noise, high CFM 120mm PC fans, one blowing cool air in, and the other blowing hot air out (exit fan is nearest the receiver). Cabinet temps are virtually room temp because of this... I have the fans hooked up through an adapter that converts it to 110V and is plugged into the switched outlet on the back of my receiver... when receiver comes on (receiver runs for everything), fans come on. when receiver turns off, fans turn off.
could you post some pictures of your set up? id like to see how/where you have the fans plugged in and where they are positioned exactly.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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Only issue with any IR kit is that certain ir kits and tv's can have interference...I would always suggest new over refurb; but if it is the only piece to put you over budget it may be worth a try; however I personally rather spend a little more and be rest assured it won't have issues. With the HDMI wall plate you do have to run 2 cat5e or cat6 cables, yes. Also if you go this route let me know as I live in the crandall area and can sell you a spare set I picked up for a room I decided to go another route with...
i am gonna do the cat6 cables, so let me know what you got and how much. also ive never ran cables through a wall, if i have trouble maybe you could drop a couple for me for a price?

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 08:52 PM
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could you post some pictures of your set up? id like to see how/where you have the fans plugged in and where they are positioned exactly.
Pic with doors closed, we used the left side for AV equip & right side for our DVDs


Doors opened. There's a shelf obviously, we put as much on top as possible and kept the fans at the top as well (heat rises, easier to get it one place to push it out) - wii & wifi router don't generate heat so bottom was fine. You can see wires connected to the front of the receiver and the cable box - those are from the IR extender. It forces an IR flash right in its face where the remote would point to. You CAN put them on the doors and they point back as well, but this seemed best for us


Fan on left - exhaust fan - this one points OUT of the unit, since the receiver generates the most heat, we put that one by the receiver. If you're doing stuff on top and bottom, it's best to put exhaust on top (did lot of research before doing all this)


Fan on right - intake fan - this one brings cool air in from outside of the console. I also have our surge protector inside (behind playstation & cable box) - this keeps all this jumble of mess of wires from being visible under our nice new furniture


Exhaust fan from the rear - you're looking at the back of the unit. Fan is on the outside rather than the inside due to clearance, but either way would work. Has around 2-2.5 inches from wall, plenty of space


Fan closer up - Notice the 'gasket' between fan and console. I made this by cutting this - http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053 - contact paper grip liner - same stuff you can line toolboxes with to keep tools from sliding around. I cut a circle the size of the fan itself, rather than a square like the fans, so that there would still be holes for the 4 corners to go through, then made gaskets with the contact paper to keep any fan vibrations from causing resonance through the unit's wood. They make gaskets you can buy too but I didn't plan in advance and frys was out - http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/...fan_gasket_120 - this shows you wher eto cut too.. cut a hole the shape of the inner 'circle'

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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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that gives me some great ideas. thanks for the detailed information and pictures! now the IR repeaters and how they work make more sense along with the best placement to put the fans at.

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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-21-2010, 07:25 AM
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I have three Onkyo receivers. One of them has started having terrible HDMI handshake issues with my PS3. It only recognizes the signal about 20% of the times I try it. Once it gets the connection, it stays working. It's really frustrating. For whatever reason, it always works with the satellite, but sometimes it takes a minute or two.

Of my other two, one of them works flawless every time (so far). The other has shown glimpses of having issues, but so far it's been able to connect every time.

I've been happy with the Onkyo stuff otherwise, but this is enough bullshit to where I won't buy another one.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-21-2010, 07:35 AM
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Ive got an Onkyo 806 that takes a second to "handshake" when switching sources but I assumed that was just HDMI or my projector. I know alot of it is my projector because when I turn on my PS3 to watch a blu ray it says "source not supported" or some crap like that for a second then plays the movie.

You guys have me thinking though. I almost went with denon but everyone said they were too complicated for someone new to home A/V which I was/am.

No other issues with my Onkyo though. Sounds great with my AV123 speaker setup.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-21-2010, 07:42 AM
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Sr606 here, also have handshake issues with the ps3. Like Jared said, it only recognizes it about 20% of the time. Piece of shit.
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post #26 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 12:36 PM
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I have three Onkyo receivers. One of them has started having terrible HDMI handshake issues with my PS3. It only recognizes the signal about 20% of the times I try it.
Is it just the audio or the video too? If just audio have you thought about just using the optical out from the PS3 to the receiver for the audio? I have a lower cost Onkyo that doesn't have HDMI but the optical works great. Never had an issue.

Though you have 7.1 right? Does optical support 7.1?

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