Xp?

Turd · 12-04-2002, 07:21 AM

I have been having random rebooting problems with XP Home Edition. The main question is could staying with FAT32 be causing my problems? Anybody else stay with FAT32, and what are the real benefits to NTFS?

AbecX · 12-04-2002, 07:32 AM

NTFS is supposedly faster, more secure and has better read/write operations then the legacy FAT32. It wouldnt hurt to upgrade the file system to NTFS, and it may resolve your issue, of course depending on what the actual cause is.

http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/tech/...l.asp#Features

MoonDog · 12-04-2002, 08:56 AM

Cruz is right, it is supposedly more secure. If you want to convert it is rather easy. Just follow these directions, you will not loose any information or data.

Click Start, then click Run.
Type CMD and press (Enter).
Type CONVERT C:/FS:NTFS and press (Enter).
Follow the on-screen instructions to complete the conversion.

Don't know if it will help your rebooting problems but it will definitly not hurt.

Randy

01WhiteCobra · 12-04-2002, 10:45 AM

FAT32 performance is better than NTFS only when volumes are around 200MB or less. After that, NTFS kicks it butt.

NTFS uses a binary tree structure for directories, reducing the number of disk reads to locate files. It will also sort files in a directory on the fly, providing faster access. NTFS is also resistant to fragmentation because it uses a better algorithm than FAT32 on where to store the files on disk.

FAT32 based systems have the infamous FAT tables where the hard disk heads have to be constantly repositioned between the file and the FAT table. When your partition size increases, performance degrades unlike NTFS.

Reliability is also improved as NTFS records all I/O events in a transaction log. If the system ever crashes, the log can be used to restore the partition.

AbecX · 12-04-2002, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Reliability is also improved as NTFS records all I/O events in a transaction log. If the system ever crashes, the log can be used to restore the partition.

I wonder where they got that ingenious idea from

01WhiteCobra · 12-04-2002, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AbecX
I wonder where they got that ingenious idea from

LOL. The architect of the original NTFS system (and most of the operating kernel) was originally from AT&T Bell Labs. Wanna guess what his responsibility at Bell Labs was? (hint: it wasn't laser systems

)

AbecX · 12-04-2002, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
LOL. The architect of the original NTFS system (and most of the operating kernel) was originally from AT&T Bell Labs. Wanna guess what his responsibility at Bell Labs was? (hint: it was laser systems )

Fucker leeches off everyones good ideas and makes them crappy

dalton13 · 12-04-2002, 02:29 PM

A conversion to NTFS from a Command Line will also slow your system. The conversion process does not defragment the MFT once you already have FAT32, and leaves it pretty messy.

MoonDog · 12-04-2002, 02:38 PM

If you defrag first and then run the conversion it will not have any ill effects. I have already done this to one of my systems and it still runs just as fast as it did before the conversion.

boozin_late · 12-05-2002, 12:30 AM

Random reboots are usually caused from hardware problems. Run WINMSD from the command line. Check and see if you have and "problem devices". See if there are any "bangs" in Device Manager.

Also uncheck "Automatically reboot" in"Startup and Recovery".

Click Start, right click My Computer, and then click Properties.
Click the Advanced tab, click Settings under Startup and Recovery.
Click to clear the Automatically restart check box, click OK, and then click OK again.

This should allow you to see (if any) stop errors on the when it reboots.

AbecX · 12-05-2002, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boozin_late
Random reboots are usually caused from hardware problems.

You know, in reality, I dont think it is a hardware issue at all, but incompatiable drivers ( which would be a software issue ). If it were hardware, then I must of picked up some really shitty hardware back in my windows days ( untrue, I usually bought all name brand stuff ), and in my Linux ones, I must've bought all the good stuff ( untrue, I buy all the off brand stuff

).

dalton13 · 12-05-2002, 09:52 AM

Actually speed is dramatically affected. Tt is well documented that a conversion will cause fragmentation, and no defragmentation tool will reverse this. You may not see a difference on a little home desktop, but 8x8 Servers have very obviously degraded performance.

MoonDog · 12-05-2002, 10:21 AM

He is having a problem with a home pc run XP, not a server.

boozin_late · 12-05-2002, 10:27 AM

Get the crash dump and post the error to Microsoft's forums. You may want to look and see if there is a Dr Watson Log. Check the Event log for any errors.

Untill there is some type of "documented" error, we are all speculating.

MoonDog · 12-05-2002, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boozin_late
Random reboots are usually caused from hardware problems. Run WINMSD from the command line. Check and see if you have and "problem devices". See if there are any "bangs" in Device Manager.

Also uncheck "Automatically reboot" in"Startup and Recovery".

Click Start, right click My Computer, and then click Properties.
Click the Advanced tab, click Settings under Startup and Recovery.
Click to clear the Automatically restart check box, click OK, and then click OK again.

This should allow you to see (if any) stop errors on the when it reboots.

Boozin brought up a good point here. If you uncheck the Reboot option here you should then get an error. This will help pinpoint where the error is occuring and aid in the troubleshooting process.

Mychael101 · 12-06-2002, 12:07 AM

I'm getting that now and it says that its due to my Norton Antivirus. So I have it disabled for the time being. Time to look for another damn patch! I can't wait to get another machine. Linux here I come!

MoonDog · 12-06-2002, 08:19 AM

I hate Norton. I hear alot of people praise the software but if you really read up on it, it causes more crashes then almost any other utility software out there. I tried Norton Utilities one time and I ended up having to format and reinstall my OS.

You might say, "How do you know it was Norton that caused the problem?" I dont, but I do know that I didn't have a problem befor or after, what conclusion would you come to?

boozin_late · 12-06-2002, 06:49 PM

Blame Norton, not Windows. It's Symantec that can't write code compatible with the OS.

I'm glad you were able to find out the cause.

AbecX · 12-06-2002, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boozin_late
Blame Norton, not Windows. It's Symantec that can't write code compatible with the OS.

But its the OS that makes it harder and harder for the programmers to make compatiable code. Catch 22.

boozin_late · 12-07-2002, 09:51 AM

I disagree. Poor code from Symantec. I would not recommend them to my worst enemy. They are in my opinion the "aol" of anti virus solutions.

I noticed on their front page they have a link to fix the blue screen on Windows. This is something that they should have caught. Sometimes I wonder if they even test their programs.

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...ype=corp&tpre=

The worst is PCANYWHERE by symantec. God aweful. Anyone who has run it on a NT 4.0 box knows that is replaces the msgina.dll. They next time a user re-applies a service pack and reboots, they are greeted with a nice Blue Screen.

Another bad AV agent is Trend Micro. I see a lot of performace cases my way. With Trend Micro's Office Scan, if you uninstall the product it removes the boot.ini ! Another bad example of poor prgramming.

Now I am not saying that MSFT is perfect, but a lot of problems are caused by 3rd party applications with crummy code.

You may want to look at http://www1.my-etrust.com/ for a Anti Virus solution.

Never had any problems on any flavor of Windows.

That's my $.02

12-04-2002, 07:21 AM	#1
Turd R.E.N.G. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: E = MC Vagina Posts: 2,898	Xp? I have been having random rebooting problems with XP Home Edition. The main question is could staying with FAT32 be causing my problems? Anybody else stay with FAT32, and what are the real benefits to NTFS?

12-04-2002, 07:32 AM	#2
AbecX ¯\(º_o)/¯ Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Las Colinas Posts: 25,384	NTFS is supposedly faster, more secure and has better read/write operations then the legacy FAT32. It wouldnt hurt to upgrade the file system to NTFS, and it may resolve your issue, of course depending on what the actual cause is. http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/tech/...l.asp#Features __________________

12-04-2002, 08:56 AM	#3
MoonDog Yeah, whatever.... Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the backyard grilling up a steak Posts: 5,096	Cruz is right, it is supposedly more secure. If you want to convert it is rather easy. Just follow these directions, you will not loose any information or data. Click Start, then click Run. Type CMD and press (Enter). Type CONVERT C:/FS:NTFS and press (Enter). Follow the on-screen instructions to complete the conversion. Don't know if it will help your rebooting problems but it will definitly not hurt. Randy __________________ Disclaimer: No other posters were flamed, ridiculed, persecuted, belittled, berated, judged or otherwise in the making of the above-posted reply. It is with respect all are asked to observe this and to provide the same courtesy bestowed upon those who have posted and those who will post. Yada, Yada, doublespeak and so forth!

12-04-2002, 02:29 PM	#8
dalton13 Time Served Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: North Dallas Posts: 110	A conversion to NTFS from a Command Line will also slow your system. The conversion process does not defragment the MFT once you already have FAT32, and leaves it pretty messy. __________________ 2000 Saleen S281, 2003 Nissan 350Z Touring, 2001 Suzuki GSX-R 1000 www.2Bones.com - www.BikesandBikinis.com - www.DFWSportscars.com - www.DFWStuntbikes.com - www.DFWBikes.com - www.GotCuties.com

12-05-2002, 09:52 AM	#12
dalton13 Time Served Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: North Dallas Posts: 110	Conversion Actually speed is dramatically affected. Tt is well documented that a conversion will cause fragmentation, and no defragmentation tool will reverse this. You may not see a difference on a little home desktop, but 8x8 Servers have very obviously degraded performance. __________________ 2000 Saleen S281, 2003 Nissan 350Z Touring, 2001 Suzuki GSX-R 1000 www.2Bones.com - www.BikesandBikinis.com - www.DFWSportscars.com - www.DFWStuntbikes.com - www.DFWBikes.com - www.GotCuties.com

12-04-2002, 10:45 AM	#4
01WhiteCobra No Cerveza... No Trabajo Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Where's my beer? Posts: 21,892	FAT32 performance is better than NTFS only when volumes are around 200MB or less. After that, NTFS kicks it butt. NTFS uses a binary tree structure for directories, reducing the number of disk reads to locate files. It will also sort files in a directory on the fly, providing faster access. NTFS is also resistant to fragmentation because it uses a better algorithm than FAT32 on where to store the files on disk. FAT32 based systems have the infamous FAT tables where the hard disk heads have to be constantly repositioned between the file and the FAT table. When your partition size increases, performance degrades unlike NTFS. Reliability is also improved as NTFS records all I/O events in a transaction log. If the system ever crashes, the log can be used to restore the partition.

12-04-2002, 02:38 PM	#9
MoonDog Yeah, whatever.... Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the backyard grilling up a steak Posts: 5,096	If you defrag first and then run the conversion it will not have any ill effects. I have already done this to one of my systems and it still runs just as fast as it did before the conversion.

12-05-2002, 12:30 AM	#10
boozin_late Pimpin ain't Eazy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland Steamer Posts: 168	Random reboots are usually caused from hardware problems. Run WINMSD from the command line. Check and see if you have and "problem devices". See if there are any "bangs" in Device Manager. Also uncheck "Automatically reboot" in"Startup and Recovery". Click Start, right click My Computer, and then click Properties. Click the Advanced tab, click Settings under Startup and Recovery. Click to clear the Automatically restart check box, click OK, and then click OK again. This should allow you to see (if any) stop errors on the when it reboots.

12-05-2002, 10:21 AM	#13
MoonDog Yeah, whatever.... Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the backyard grilling up a steak Posts: 5,096	He is having a problem with a home pc run XP, not a server.

12-05-2002, 10:27 AM	#14
boozin_late Pimpin ain't Eazy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland Steamer Posts: 168	Get the crash dump and post the error to Microsoft's forums. You may want to look and see if there is a Dr Watson Log. Check the Event log for any errors. Untill there is some type of "documented" error, we are all speculating.

12-06-2002, 12:07 AM	#16
Mychael101 We lost one..... Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Red Oak TX Posts: 6,274	I'm getting that now and it says that its due to my Norton Antivirus. So I have it disabled for the time being. Time to look for another damn patch! I can't wait to get another machine. Linux here I come!

12-06-2002, 08:19 AM	#17
MoonDog Yeah, whatever.... Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the backyard grilling up a steak Posts: 5,096	I hate Norton. I hear alot of people praise the software but if you really read up on it, it causes more crashes then almost any other utility software out there. I tried Norton Utilities one time and I ended up having to format and reinstall my OS. You might say, "How do you know it was Norton that caused the problem?" I dont, but I do know that I didn't have a problem befor or after, what conclusion would you come to? __________________ Disclaimer: No other posters were flamed, ridiculed, persecuted, belittled, berated, judged or otherwise in the making of the above-posted reply. It is with respect all are asked to observe this and to provide the same courtesy bestowed upon those who have posted and those who will post. Yada, Yada, doublespeak and so forth!

12-06-2002, 06:49 PM	#18
boozin_late Pimpin ain't Eazy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland Steamer Posts: 168	Blame Norton, not Windows. It's Symantec that can't write code compatible with the OS. I'm glad you were able to find out the cause.

12-07-2002, 09:51 AM	#20
boozin_late Pimpin ain't Eazy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland Steamer Posts: 168	Good AV Agent I disagree. Poor code from Symantec. I would not recommend them to my worst enemy. They are in my opinion the "aol" of anti virus solutions. I noticed on their front page they have a link to fix the blue screen on Windows. This is something that they should have caught. Sometimes I wonder if they even test their programs. http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...ype=corp&tpre= The worst is PCANYWHERE by symantec. God aweful. Anyone who has run it on a NT 4.0 box knows that is replaces the msgina.dll. They next time a user re-applies a service pack and reboots, they are greeted with a nice Blue Screen. Another bad AV agent is Trend Micro. I see a lot of performace cases my way. With Trend Micro's Office Scan, if you uninstall the product it removes the boot.ini ! Another bad example of poor prgramming. Now I am not saying that MSFT is perfect, but a lot of problems are caused by 3rd party applications with crummy code. You may want to look at http://www1.my-etrust.com/ for a Anti Virus solution. Never had any problems on any flavor of Windows. That's my $.02

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