Salvation?

Girls can too · 08-08-2002, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
Being under OT law must have been a beating... Not to mention impossible to keep. Through Jesus, all our sins are covered by His blood. When God sees us(spiritually), He's sees His Son in us, or Jesus' blood covering us. No matter what sins we've committed or will commit IMO. And that as you know, does away with the sacrifices in the OT.

I quoted Lane from another thread as I didn't want to take away from Chris' question.

I'm curious, if you break or have commited BIG sins (as Hailey would say) can you be forgiven? Divorce, cheat, steal, etc.

I worry about many family members and friends. I also believe that they won't repent because they believe they're beyond salvation. What are ya'lls thoughts? Anything definite that you've read?

One teacher at Hailey's old school believed if you smoked/cussed/danced/divorced you were burning in hell...I feel sorry for many if that's the case.

I believe in a forgiving God...But just how much repenting does it take to be forgiven and is it most likely all in vain at those levels? What if you continue to sin after you've been saved and/or repented? Always wondered about that.

StangTamer · 08-08-2002, 01:31 AM

There is no sin greater than another. We as people hold Murder as a bigger sin than steeling. Yet, God does not. If you have recieved Jesus as your Lord and Savior, your sins from yesterday,today,and tomarrow are wiped away. Jesus freed us from sin, not to sin though.

Oh yeah, smoking a cigarette won't send you to hell, it will just make you smell like you've been there!!

StangTamer · 08-08-2002, 01:51 AM

Opps, I left something out.

If you commit any one sin you are guilty of all sins. Example: If you steel you are guilty of murder, adultry, false witness, ect. So, in Gods eyes there are no "BIG" and "little" sins. They're all just BIG and any one of them can send you to hell without being saved. It sounds hardcore, but God gave everyone of us an easy way out through Jesus.

Monsoon X · 08-08-2002, 07:51 AM

Ephesians 2 12 That you were at that time without Christ, being cut off from any part in Israel's rights as a nation, having no part in God's agreement, having no hope, and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who at one time were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Nic- Your relative's sins all of them will be forgiven if they hear,believe,repent,confess and be baptized. Not only that, then they must start TRYING to live a godly life. Because your Faith without works is dead (James 2:17)

We can't be perfect or course. Being a Christian doesn't mean you are sinless.....it just means you sin less.

Lane · 08-08-2002, 09:53 AM

Remember the woman at the well who Jesus talked to who had been married 5 times and was living with a man at the time. Jesus didn't condemn her - nor did He condemn the woman caught in adultery that the mob brought to Him. He just said 'let him with no sin cast the first stone'. I'd have liked to have seen their faces when he said that. He told the woman to 'go and sin no more'.

The parable of the Prodigal Son answers your question best though, I believe. That boy left his dad(God) went away and probably committed every sin you can think of, but when he decided to come back, the father didn't turn a cold shoulder - but ran after him as soon as he saw him returning on the trail - and threw a party!

We're all 'Prodigals'. God is never far away from us - He doesn't turn His back on us. It's the other way around. But, when we turn to Him, no matter what we've done - He's there with open arms! Like the father in the parable - running to us.

Remember - Jesus didn't come to condemn, but to save.

Frogger · 08-08-2002, 05:07 PM

So if a person spent a lifetime committing sins and then repents/confesses in their later lives...they will be accepted to heaven with the rest of those that perhaps lived a "cleaner" more faithful life?

I know I have to be missing something here...

StangTamer · 08-08-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
So if a person spent a lifetime committing sins and then repents/confesses in their later lives...they will be accepted to heaven with the rest of those that perhaps lived a "cleaner" more faithful life?

I know I have to be missing something here...

Yes, it's never to late.

Monsoon X · 08-08-2002, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
So if a person spent a lifetime committing sins and then repents/confesses in their later lives...they will be accepted to heaven with the rest of those that perhaps lived a "cleaner" more faithful life?

I know I have to be missing something here...

Would you prefer for God to be a big meanie and tell people no?

It's just that us old skool "clean" Christians will get a bigger crown.

2Timothy 2:6

Lane · 08-09-2002, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
So if a person spent a lifetime committing sins and then repents/confesses in their later lives...they will be accepted to heaven with the rest of those that perhaps lived a "cleaner" more faithful life?

I know I have to be missing something here...

Hard to believe huh? So radical(but wonderful), Jesus was killed for preaching it. Jesus summed it up in the parable of the 'Land owner'(I think, maybe Vinyard

). Don't have time to look it up..

The man hired people to work in his field and they started early in the morning. He then hired some more at the end of the day and paid them the same amount as the others. Of course, the ones who had been there all day weren't happy, but the owner said - it's 'my money(salvation)'.

I'll get the exact story, location later unless someone else can help me out here. That's the jist of it though.

Girls can too · 08-09-2002, 11:45 AM

This is great to know. I plan to write more Monday. Thank you to everyone who answered. More to come...

Monsoon X · 08-09-2002, 11:53 AM

But you never know when you're gonna bite the big one so you better get serious, little girls or it'll be too late.

Had to put in some Fire and Brimstone just to shake you up a bit.

Girls can too · 08-09-2002, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monsoon X
But you never know when you're gonna bite the big one so you better get serious, little girls or it'll be too late.

Had to put in some Fire and Brimstone just to shake you up a bit.

I know. I think about THAT a lot too. I do know one thing...If I don't get saved...and Hailey is...she'll forget me when she enters. That's a scary thought!

Will someone explain also why do you need to be baptised AND saved? Do you need both? I'm baptised. Hailey's saved. What to do?

Monsoon X · 08-10-2002, 12:41 PM

Nicole- Baptism saves.

You will find that this topic is greatly debated in the religious sector.

All through the New Testament no one was saved unless they went through the act of Baptism. (Except the thief on the cross but that was because Jesus granted him salvation because Jesus hadn't risen yet from the dead)

Baptism goes hand in hand with being saved. You have to allow Jesus into your heart AND BE BAPTISED. Not one without the other.

EVEN JESUS WAS BAPTISED IN WATER! I really can't understand why some people preach that you can be saved without it. IMO

Baptism symbolizes what the circumsion of old meant to the Jews. (1Peter 3:21) (Ephesians 4:5)

Another thing I don't agree with is the practice of Baptizing infants. Those who were baptized in the Bible first confessed that Jesus was the son of God and repented of their sins and
then were baptized. How can an infant do this? (I'm not saying this is Hailey's case but, your question reminded me of this practice.)

StangTamer · 08-10-2002, 01:38 PM

It is a disputed topic like JC said. I was water Baptized only a year or two ago. But, I recieved Jesus in my heart as my Lord and Savior a long time ago (probably when I was 8yrs old). I believe that they are both the same thing. Because whether you get Baptized or ask Jesus in your heart (get saved), in both ways you are recieving the Lord. Being dunked in the water is just a symbol of your sins being washed away. Just like when you get saved you recieve the Lord and ask him to wash away your sins. Yet, it is a debated topic so I figured it wouldn't hurt to do both just incase I was wrong.lol

Lane · 08-12-2002, 09:33 AM

I've backed off the 'Must be babtized' stance. For people on their death-bed, or the man that has the heart-attack that's about to be babtized, etc...

However - I couldn't imagine becoming a christian(born again) and not be babtized. In all the cases I know of people that accepted Jesus in the bible immediately asked to be and were babtized.

Why some don't puzzles me.

The Punisher · 08-16-2002, 09:47 AM

I actually come from a church (Lutheran) where we baptism infants and all ages. Where it says in the Bible baptise of all nations. We just believe that this was meant of all race, gender, and age. But as far as the infant stand point. We believe the infant cannot confess God yet, but we hold the parents to bring the child in proper upbringing to Jesus Christ. We do on other hand have confirmation at the ages of around 12 or older as an in-depht teaching of the word, baptism, and communion. I on other hand dont believe you have to be baptised to go to heaven, just that you believe in Jesus Christ that he died for you on the cross for all your sins will get you there. I believe baptism is just planting a seed of faith so it can grow.
<------just wanted to bring different views to the subject.

speedpro50 · 08-19-2002, 04:00 PM

Baptism

Baptism is a type (mirror) of what Christ has done for us. Just as he died, was buried and rose again, we are buried and raised out of the water to "walk in newness of life". I do NOT believe baptism is a requirement to be saved, BUT I do certainly believe if someone is SAVED and CAN be baptized, THEY WILL!

Baptism if the 1ST act of obedience to God. Acts 2:38 says REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED...this is the first thing God wants you to do once saved!

Baptism is also a public show of your new faith in Jesus Christ.

I also feel like baptism is a key to being filled with the Holy Spirit, but I don't think it is mandatory in order to be filled. The reason Jesus was baptized by John was to be an example, but you will also notice upon exiting the water the Holy Spirit (dove) descended upon Him. It was not until he was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost that his ministry began!

Lee

speedpro50 · 08-21-2002, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Girls can too

I'm curious, if you break or have commited BIG sins (as Hailey would say) can you be forgiven? Divorce, cheat, steal, etc.

I worry about many family members and friends. I also believe that they won't repent because they believe they're beyond salvation. What are ya'lls thoughts? Anything definite that you've read?

One teacher at Hailey's old school believed if you smoked/cussed/danced/divorced you were burning in hell...I feel sorry for many if that's the case. I believe in a forgiving God...But just how much repenting does it take to be forgiven and is it most likely all in vain at those levels? What if you continue to sin after you've been saved and/or repented? Always wondered about that.

One more thing for you Nicole. I really responded to your 2nd question in the post above. Here is a response to yuor 1st question.

BAD SINS -- Remember David, king over God's people (Israel), committed adultery and then had a guy murdered. God forgave David (although he was chastised) and he was called a man after God's own heart! There is only 1 unforgivable sin and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I hope this helps!

Monsoon X · 08-21-2002, 10:50 AM

See this is what I mean by heavily debated. Letting Christ into your heart and being Baptized go hand in hand.

Like it was stated above, Christ was baptized as an example to show what happens in Baptism. The Holy Spirit descended on him AFTER he was baptized.

(1 Pt 3:21) Even goes as far as to state what happens during baptism and explains how you are saved.

Let me put it this way. You go to the doctor to be healed. The doctor diagnoses you and gives you a prescription. You accept the Dr's prescription, and your faith tells you in your heart, that the Doc is right. BUT, have you filled his prescription yet?! It is your full belief in him that moves you to fill his prescription.

This "be saved only by letting him in your heart" stuff came from the "mass marketing" of Christianity from radio and tv.

Tell me, isn't it easy to broadcast to people in their homes and get them to watch/listen to your program, by telling them to just accept Christ, say a "sinners" prayer and BAM!, they're saved, than to "risk" them going to a local congregation to be actually baptized?

Baptism IS a pledge of good conscience toward God. Just like fufilling that prescription is a pledge of faith in your Doctor.

With Christian Love
JC

08-08-2002, 07:51 AM	#4
Monsoon X Crash Test Dummy Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: never never land Posts: 22,031	Ephesians 2 12 That you were at that time without Christ, being cut off from any part in Israel's rights as a nation, having no part in God's agreement, having no hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who at one time were far off are made near in the blood of Christ. Nic- Your relative's sins all of them will be forgiven if they hear,believe,repent,confess and be baptized. Not only that, then they must start TRYING to live a godly life. Because your Faith without works is dead (James 2:17) We can't be perfect or course. Being a Christian doesn't mean you are sinless.....it just means you sin less. __________________ ______________________________ I'm just a poor negro

08-09-2002, 11:45 AM	#10
Girls can too Chick with a Dick Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Las Colinas Posts: 12,390	This is great to know. I plan to write more Monday. Thank you to everyone who answered. More to come... __________________ myspace.com/madamdeuce....even your mom has visited Just imagine if guys* weren't weirded out by my boner and stuff...and just wanted to see it. That's the world I one day wanna live in.*

08-09-2002, 11:53 AM	#11
Monsoon X Crash Test Dummy Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: never never land Posts: 22,031	But you never know when you're gonna bite the big one so you better get serious, little girls or it'll be too late. Had to put in some Fire and Brimstone just to shake you up a bit. __________________ ______________________________ I'm just a poor negro

08-10-2002, 12:41 PM	#13
Monsoon X Crash Test Dummy Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: never never land Posts: 22,031	Nicole- Baptism saves. You will find that this topic is greatly debated in the religious sector. All through the New Testament no one was saved unless they went through the act of Baptism. (Except the thief on the cross but that was because Jesus granted him salvation because Jesus hadn't risen yet from the dead) Baptism goes hand in hand with being saved. You have to allow Jesus into your heart AND BE BAPTISED. Not one without the other. EVEN JESUS WAS BAPTISED IN WATER! I really can't understand why some people preach that you can be saved without it. IMO Baptism symbolizes what the circumsion of old meant to the Jews. (1Peter 3:21) (Ephesians 4:5) Another thing I don't agree with is the practice of Baptizing infants. Those who were baptized in the Bible first confessed that Jesus was the son of God and repented of their sins and then were baptized. How can an infant do this? (I'm not saying this is Hailey's case but, your question reminded me of this practice.) __________________ ______________________________ I'm just a poor negro

08-12-2002, 09:33 AM	#15
Lane My other car's a mini-van Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Lunatic Fringe Posts: 5,150	Babtism I've backed off the 'Must be babtized' stance. For people on their death-bed, or the man that has the heart-attack that's about to be babtized, etc... However - I couldn't imagine becoming a christian(born again) and not be babtized. In all the cases I know of people that accepted Jesus in the bible immediately asked to be and were babtized. Why some don't puzzles me.

08-08-2002, 01:31 AM	#2
StangTamer Blessed Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the light. Posts: 7,500	There is no sin greater than another. We as people hold Murder as a bigger sin than steeling. Yet, God does not. If you have recieved Jesus as your Lord and Savior, your sins from yesterday,today,and tomarrow are wiped away. Jesus freed us from sin, not to sin though. Oh yeah, smoking a cigarette won't send you to hell, it will just make you smell like you've been there!!

08-08-2002, 01:51 AM	#3
StangTamer Blessed Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the light. Posts: 7,500	Opps, I left something out. If you commit any one sin you are guilty of all sins. Example: If you steel you are guilty of murder, adultry, false witness, ect. So, in Gods eyes there are no "BIG" and "little" sins. They're all just BIG and any one of them can send you to hell without being saved. It sounds hardcore, but God gave everyone of us an easy way out through Jesus.

08-08-2002, 09:53 AM	#5
Lane My other car's a mini-van Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Lunatic Fringe Posts: 5,150	Remember the woman at the well who Jesus talked to who had been married 5 times and was living with a man at the time. Jesus didn't condemn her - nor did He condemn the woman caught in adultery that the mob brought to Him. He just said 'let him with no sin cast the first stone'. I'd have liked to have seen their faces when he said that. He told the woman to 'go and sin no more'. The parable of the Prodigal Son answers your question best though, I believe. That boy left his dad(God) went away and probably committed every sin you can think of, but when he decided to come back, the father didn't turn a cold shoulder - but ran after him as soon as he saw him returning on the trail - and threw a party! We're all 'Prodigals'. God is never far away from us - He doesn't turn His back on us. It's the other way around. But, when we turn to Him, no matter what we've done - He's there with open arms! Like the father in the parable - running to us. Remember - Jesus didn't come to condemn, but to save.

08-08-2002, 05:07 PM	#6
Frogger The Alpha Omega Frog Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Awaiting from the Shadows Posts: 8,323	So if a person spent a lifetime committing sins and then repents/confesses in their later lives...they will be accepted to heaven with the rest of those that perhaps lived a "cleaner" more faithful life? I know I have to be missing something here...

08-10-2002, 01:38 PM	#14
StangTamer Blessed Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the light. Posts: 7,500	It is a disputed topic like JC said. I was water Baptized only a year or two ago. But, I recieved Jesus in my heart as my Lord and Savior a long time ago (probably when I was 8yrs old). I believe that they are both the same thing. Because whether you get Baptized or ask Jesus in your heart (get saved), in both ways you are recieving the Lord. Being dunked in the water is just a symbol of your sins being washed away. Just like when you get saved you recieve the Lord and ask him to wash away your sins. Yet, it is a debated topic so I figured it wouldn't hurt to do both just incase I was wrong.lol

08-16-2002, 09:47 AM	#16
The Punisher Boost is Good Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: With Weapons of Mass Instruction Posts: 3,130	On the Baptism topic I actually come from a church (Lutheran) where we baptism infants and all ages. Where it says in the Bible baptise of all nations. We just believe that this was meant of all race, gender, and age. But as far as the infant stand point. We believe the infant cannot confess God yet, but we hold the parents to bring the child in proper upbringing to Jesus Christ. We do on other hand have confirmation at the ages of around 12 or older as an in-depht teaching of the word, baptism, and communion. I on other hand dont believe you have to be baptised to go to heaven, just that you believe in Jesus Christ that he died for you on the cross for all your sins will get you there. I believe baptism is just planting a seed of faith so it can grow. <------just wanted to bring different views to the subject. __________________ Stand by or fight while Obama wages his war against capitalism...

08-19-2002, 04:00 PM	#17
speedpro50 Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wills Point, TX -- Citizenship in HEAVEN! Posts: 505	Baptism Baptism is a type (mirror) of what Christ has done for us. Just as he died, was buried and rose again, we are buried and raised out of the water to "walk in newness of life". I do NOT believe baptism is a requirement to be saved, BUT I do certainly believe if someone is SAVED and CAN be baptized, THEY WILL! Baptism if the 1ST act of obedience to God. Acts 2:38 says REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED...this is the first thing God wants you to do once saved! Baptism is also a public show of your new faith in Jesus Christ. I also feel like baptism is a key to being filled with the Holy Spirit, but I don't think it is mandatory in order to be filled. The reason Jesus was baptized by John was to be an example, but you will also notice upon exiting the water the Holy Spirit (dove) descended upon Him. It was not until he was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost that his ministry began! Lee

08-21-2002, 10:50 AM	#19
Monsoon X Crash Test Dummy Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: never never land Posts: 22,031	See this is what I mean by heavily debated. Letting Christ into your heart and being Baptized go hand in hand. Like it was stated above, Christ was baptized as an example to show what happens in Baptism. The Holy Spirit descended on him AFTER he was baptized. (1 Pt 3:21) Even goes as far as to state what happens during baptism and explains how you are saved. Let me put it this way. You go to the doctor to be healed. The doctor diagnoses you and gives you a prescription. You accept the Dr's prescription, and your faith tells you in your heart, that the Doc is right. BUT, have you filled his prescription yet?! It is your full belief in him that moves you to fill his prescription. This "be saved only by letting him in your heart" stuff came from the "mass marketing" of Christianity from radio and tv. Tell me, isn't it easy to broadcast to people in their homes and get them to watch/listen to your program, by telling them to just accept Christ, say a "sinners" prayer and BAM!, they're saved, than to "risk" them going to a local congregation to be actually baptized? Baptism IS a pledge of good conscience toward God. Just like fufilling that prescription is a pledge of faith in your Doctor. With Christian Love JC Last edited by Monsoon X; 08-21-2002 at 10:53 AM.

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