Cartman, please explain..

[03trubluGT]

.. how the Patriot Act has effected your personal freedoms?

You kept saying how the PA has given us "less rights", so show me an example of what rights you have been suffering without...

[Fox466]

Wasting your time Matt. You'd have better results asking him which color he prefers in the towels used to remove the drool from his chin...

[sc281_99-0135]

Originally Posted by fox466

wasting your time matt. You'd have better results asking him which color he prefers in the towels used to remove the drool from his chin...

black, duh! Any other color would be racist....

[03trubluGT]

I'm just curious. I can't identify one liberty I've done without since the PA went into effect.

[Vertnut]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

I'm just curious. I can't identify one liberty I've done without since the PA went into effect.

You probably won't because you're a law-abiding citizen.

[Slowhand]

Are you guys seriously advocating the circumvention of constitutional law? What warrant?

I've got shit to hide from anyone using the Patriot Act, but that doesn't mean a goddamned thing. It's just another tool for our increasingly centralized government to grab more power at will.

You guys do a lot of talking about the degradation of our government and our privacy as citizens until you think it's something that doesn't apply to you...

[Lason]

Yeah the patriot act dances on a very fine line and I dont think I could personally condemn someone for being against it myself. Without looking it over, didnt it grant government the ability to tap phone lines? This seems right there with that news story a while back about the UK putting video cameras in peoples homes to monitor them and their kids.

Would we have anything to worry about if there was a camera on our ceiling monitoring us? Probably not but I still dont want it. The patriot act was a good idea excecuted badly IMO.

But on that same note, if you weigh the good vs bad of it then its hard to just say you want it gone. Either way its a shitty deal.

[Slowhand]

The second such provision allows the F.B.I. to get a court order to seize “any tangible things” deemed relevant to a terrorism investigation — like a business’s customer records, a diary or a computer.

Anything the GOVERNMENT deems relevant. Not what the law deems and not what the law says it can do, simply what the government decides is necessary.

Come on people.

[Slowhand]

Let's keep this ball rolling!

the Justice Department’s inspector general issued two reports finding that F.B.I. agents misused the device to obtain bank, credit card and telephone records.

http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/s0803b/final.pdf

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by Slowhand

Are you guys seriously advocating the circumvention of constitutional law? What warrant?

I've got shit to hide from anyone using the Patriot Act, but that doesn't mean a goddamned thing. It's just another tool for our increasingly centralized government to grab more power at will.

You guys do a lot of talking about the degradation of our government and our privacy as citizens until you think it's something that doesn't apply to you...

Is that what we said?

If you don't have shit to hide, then you shouldn't worry about it.

That last sentence doens't make sense.

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by Slowhand

Let's keep this ball rolling!



http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/s0803b/final.pdf

Were these your records that were obtained?

Why are you so vocal about this subject?

I'm just glad that there is a entity that oversees the use of the PA and is willing to admit misuse and take corrective action.

It's more rules than the terrorists are willing to play by.

[Yale]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Is that what we said?

If you don't have shit to hide, then you shouldn't worry about it.

That last sentence doens't make sense.

Not true. You should be free to do what you want, within reason, not be forced to follow a law simply because it's a law. The law serves people, not the other way around.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Is that what we said?

If you don't have shit to hide, then you shouldn't worry about it.

That last sentence doens't make sense.

I'll bite.


I don't have anything to hide, and I AM worried about it. That's a bullshit argument to begin with.


It all comes down to Big Brother. If you can't see the trampling of rights and liberties, nothing I am going to say, is going to sway you. Just the potential alone for misuse and abuse, is mind boggling. Of course, being in your position, you're going to defend them to the death saying they never misuse or abuse information/authority. Sorry, I just don't agree. It happens a hell of a lot more than you are ever willing to admit.

[Yale]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Were these your records that were obtained?

Why are you so vocal about this subject?

I'm just glad that there is a entity that oversees the use of the PA and is willing to admit misuse and take corrective action.

It's more rules than the terrorists are willing to play by.

Our civil laws don't really have much to do with Arab terrorism.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by Yale

Not true. You should be free to do what you want, within reason, not be forced to follow a law simply because it's a law. The law serves people, not the other way around.

I think his longtime career seriously affects his views and judgement. He's 'one of them', so of course it's easy and almost a given to take the chickenshit ass excuse of "Well if you don't have anything to hide".



Too many routine traffic stops, I suppose. Either way, it's a violation of FREEDOM, which is the very basis this country was founded on. If he can't realize that, he's beyond any help, assistance, or eye opening I can offer.


Also, let it be known I generally disagree with Cartman on virtually everything he's ever posted. I didn't see the posts in question that prompted this.

[Vertnut]

Originally Posted by bcoop

I'll bite.


I don't have anything to hide, and I AM worried about it. That's a bullshit argument to begin with.


It all comes down to Big Brother. If you can't see the trampling of rights and liberties, nothing I am going to say, is going to sway you. Just the potential alone for misuse and abuse, is mind boggling. Of course, being in your position, you're going to defend them to the death saying they never misuse or abuse information/authority. Sorry, I just don't agree.

You guys are worried about little shit (privacy-wise) compared to this health care bill that's coming down the pike. We're talking about the IRS being the enforcing agency for that debacle. ANY laws can be abused in the hands of the wrong person/agency. I'm more worried about the new census nonesense.

[tazz007]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

.. how the Patriot Act has effected your personal freedoms?

You kept saying how the PA has given us "less rights", so show me an example of what rights you have been suffering without...

I think I can field this one.

First off, find the actual wording of the patriot act. And remember this when your reading it.

All of the ass hats in the house are putting labels on everyone. And the "word" domestic terrorist seem to come up a lot latley. They are labeling every one in sight a terrorist or potential terrorist . That would include people that believe in the constitution and the bill of rights. "The constitutionalists" Libertarians and Ron Paul supporters, The boys coming home from war. "Vets" Anti abortion activists, 2A supporters, and even the tax protesters are potential terrorists.

Now, with all these labels being put on people, how will the patriot act affect these people?

We can start with no knock warrants.
No warrants period, all they have to do is label you. (This is call a police state)
Detention without a trial.
No fly list. 1.5 million and counting.
And you can be treated as an enemy combatant. <--- This is just insane.

This is just part of it. Any questions? Please read the act before you ask.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by Vertnut

You guys are worried about little shit (privacy-wise) compared to this health care bill that's coming down the pike. We're talking about the IRS being the enforcing agency for that debacle. ANY laws can be abused in the hands of the wrong person/agency. I'm more worried about the new census nonesense.

I'm not nitpicking, I'm worried about ALL of it. He brought up the point, I'm merely responding to it.


I think this government is too fucking incompetent to handle trash, much less anything else they have their hands in.

[Mustangman_2000]

I think you're wasting your time with this thread. However, my 2 cents....

I've listen to people bemoan the Patriot Act and it's erosion of freedoms for years. I can't for the life of me think how in anyway whatsoever the PA has affected my personal freedoms? Not in any perceivable way have my civil liberties been encroached upon by the PA. However, I am a law abiding citizen with zero aspirations to commit acts of terrorism. Therefore, under that classification the PA is totally transparent to me. The people that cry about the PA on this forum have most likely never actually been affected by it. I find that humorous.

Sorry you guys don't like this cliche, but I'll say it anyway. If you aren't a criminal or someone with criminal aspirations then you will not be harmed by this legislation. It's really that simple. All of these sleeper cells that have been broken up and the arrest in NY. All are a result of the extra powers granted to Feds by the PA. Intercepting coded emails, Carnivore sniffing out key words indicating plots or potential plots, etc..

The PA is a non-issue if you have nothing to hide. You guys are worried about PA, but haven't noticed the massive expansive of Government under our current Administration. And what is yet to come in the next 3 years. If you are a conservative, this a time of great apprehension.

We have bigger political problems to worry about. Too bad some of you can't see that. The U.S. Government owns majority interest in General Motors. What does that tell you about the state of affairs in an ostensibly Capitalist society? That's what worries me, not PA.

[Lason]

Originally Posted by Mustangman_2000

I think you're wasting your time with this thread. However, my 2 cents....

I've listen to people bemoan the Patriot Act and it's erosion of freedoms for years. I can't for the life of me think how in anyway whatsoever the PA has affected my personal freedoms? Not in any perceivable way have my civil liberties been encroached upon by the PA. However, I am a law abiding citizen with zero aspirations to commit acts of terrorism. Therefore, under that classification the PA is totally transparent to me. The people that cry about the PA on this forum have most likely never actually been affected by it. I find that humorous.

Sorry you guys don't like this cliche, but I'll say it anyway. If you aren't a criminal or someone with criminal aspirations then you will not be harmed by this legislation. It's really that simple. All of these sleeper cells that have been broken up and the arrest in NY. All are a result of the extra powers granted to Feds by the PA. Intercepting coded emails, Carnivore sniffing out key words indicating plots or potential plots, etc..

The PA is a non-issue if you have nothing to hide. You guys are worried about PA, but haven't noticed the massive expansive of Government under our current Administration. And what is yet to come in the next 3 years. If you are a conservative, this a time of great apprehension.

We have bigger political problems to worry about. Too bad some of you can't see that. The U.S. Government owns majority interest in General Motors. What does that tell you about the state of affairs in an ostensibly Capitalist society? That's what worries me, not PA.

So you would be ok with GPS tracking devices implanted into your body for government use? If your not breaking the law its no big deal right? It wouldnt affect your daily life either so you would be ok with it?

[stinginstang]

You can't say that the PA won't be used down the line for purposes it wasn't intended for. I'm not a criminal (according to the current definition) nor do I have anything to hide. What happens when openly critisizing the Governemnt is considered terrorism? No one can say for sure that won't happen in 20 or 30 years. Having a document in place to pave the way doesn't help us.

What I don't understand is why we don't differentiate between citizens and non citizens? If you are not a US citizen, I don't think the government should need a search warrant.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by stinginstang

What happens when openly critisizing the Governemnt is considered terrorism? No one can say for sure that won't happen in 20 or 30 years.

20 or 30 years? It's happening right now!


Well, if you are pro-life, pro-guns, and conservative. Oh, yeah. Soldiers returning from tours are also considered right wing extremists, which to the govt, means terrorists.

[tenacious j]

so why didn't the patriot act not catch this guy, if they have been suspecting him for 6 months to writing that bullshit on a blog about suicide bombers being heroes. how was his computer not seized, and why wasn't he under formal investigation?

[Vertnut]

Originally Posted by tenacious j

so why didn't the patriot act not catch this guy, if they have been suspecting him for 6 months to writing that bullshit on a blog about suicide bombers being heroes. how was his computer not seized, and why wasn't he under formal investigation?

Because the only laws greater then the Patriot Act, are those of "political correctness", and THOSE will be the death of us as a nation.

[stinginstang]

Originally Posted by Vertnut

Because the only laws greater then the Patriot Act, are those of "political correctness", and THOSE will be the death of us as a nation.

EXACTLY!!! They didn't want to hurt his feelings or make CAIR think they don't like Muslims.

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by Yale

Not true. You should be free to do what you want, within reason, not be forced to follow a law simply because it's a law. The law serves people, not the other way around.

Exactly what law in the PA negates what freedom you used to have that you don't have now?

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by bcoop

I'll bite.


I don't have anything to hide, and I AM worried about it. That's a bullshit argument to begin with.


It all comes down to Big Brother. If you can't see the trampling of rights and liberties, nothing I am going to say, is going to sway you. Just the potential alone for misuse and abuse, is mind boggling. Of course, being in your position, you're going to defend them to the death saying they never misuse or abuse information/authority. Sorry, I just don't agree. It happens a hell of a lot more than you are ever willing to admit.

Brent, don't go saying you know what I'm thinking because of my occupation. That's fuking rude.


Of course the potential for abuse is there. But I see our citizens vicitmizing our citizens THOUSANDS of times more often that goverment officials doing so.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Exactly what law in the PA negates what freedom you used to have that you don't have now?

The ability to talk freely about whatever the fuck I want, without fearing some 'hot' word trips surveillance.

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by Lason

So you would be ok with GPS tracking devices implanted into your body for government use? If your not breaking the law its no big deal right? It wouldnt affect your daily life either so you would be ok with it?

Whoaaaa there. Taking this out of proportion are we?

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by stinginstang

You can't say that the PA won't be used down the line for purposes it wasn't intended for. I'm not a criminal (according to the current definition) nor do I have anything to hide. What happens when openly critisizing the Governemnt is considered terrorism? No one can say for sure that won't happen in 20 or 30 years. Having a document in place to pave the way doesn't help us.

What I don't understand is why we don't differentiate between citizens and non citizens? If you are not a US citizen, I don't think the government should need a search warrant.

We'll have to cross that bridge when we get there. We're talking about the present.

Can ANYBODY tell me from personal experience one freedom that has been infringed since the PA?

Anybody?

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by bcoop

The ability to talk freely about whatever the fuck I want, without fearing some 'hot' word trips surveillance.

Define "talk".

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Brent, don't go saying you know what I'm thinking because of my occupation. That's fuking rude.

It's not rude. It's just an observation. I mean, surely you can see the similarities between the two.


LEO: License and Registration, please
Citizen: Here you go.
LEO: You mind if I take a look through your car?
Citizen: Actually, I do mind.
LEO: We can do this one of two ways. You can let me search your car now, or I can detain you until a K-9 unit gets here. If you don't have anything to hide....


Come the fuck on. You're a liar if you say that EXACT conversation doesn't happen THOUSANDS of times a day. And if you can't see the connection, well, sorry. It's there. And it happens. And those exact words are said. LEOs hide behind that bullshit excuse all day, every day. Putting that excuse in the hands of politicians just makes it that much worse, and IMO, that much more likely to be abused.

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Of course the potential for abuse is there. But I see our citizens vicitmizing our citizens THOUSANDS of times more often that goverment officials doing so.

I disagree. Especially with our current administration. But again, JMO.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Define "talk".

on the phone? What do you mean define 'talk'? You know, speak, be vocal, communicate?


I have a Indian friend (dots not feathers). He always catches a rash of shit from a group of us, any time something happens. Yesterday, for instance. Or like the guy that tried to bomb the building in downtown. It's just something we all do. We tell him to call his cousins off, among many other harsh, crude, but all in jest jokes. I call him a terrorist every single time we speak. Because of this, I don't know if someone could be listening, etc. Sure, this example is highly insignificant, but surely you can see where I'm going with this.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Whoaaaa there. Taking this out of proportion are we?

Not at all. Did you not see the new capabilities of OnStar? Can you not see that being abused? It's all one in the same. And again, "If you don't have anything to hide, why do you care if LEOs can tune in to the conversation taking place in your car?


Bullshit excuse. What the fuck ever happened to privacy?

[Yale]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Exactly what law in the PA negates what freedom you used to have that you don't have now?

Exactly? It hasn't come up yet. Exactly what about the PA makes you feel so much safer than before? Again, the standard should not be limited to a man's opinion of another, rather to the law in question. You're making the mistake of assuming a law can protect you, and it can't.

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by bcoop

It's not rude. It's just an observation. I mean, surely you can see the similarities between the two.


LEO: License and Registration, please
Citizen: Here you go.
LEO: You mind if I take a look through your car?
Citizen: Actually, I do mind.
LEO: We can do this one of two ways. You can let me search your car now, or I can detain you until a K-9 unit gets here. If you don't have anything to hide....


Come the fuck on. You're a liar if you say that EXACT conversation doesn't happen THOUSANDS of times a day. And if you can't see the connection, well, sorry. It's there. And it happens. And those exact words are said. LEOs hide behind that bullshit excuse all day, every day. Putting that excuse in the hands of politicians just makes it that much worse, and IMO, that much more likely to be abused.


I disagree. Especially with our current administration. But again, JMO.

Thousands of times a day? Where?

Not where I work. I would dare say even in my area that is asked maybe a dozen times a week, if that, and not usually on dayshift. We have to fill out traffic/pedestrian stop checklists on every stop and on it is if a search was conducted, and if it was consensual.

I can promise you that none of the people that work for me make it a habit to go on fishing expeditions like you mention, and even if they did, we don't have a drug K9 that works dayshift that is available for situations like this.

Just because it happens somewhere else, don't accuse me of doing it, or lumping me into the same category.

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by bcoop

on the phone? What do you mean define 'talk'? You know, speak, be vocal, communicate?


I have a Indian friend (dots not feathers). He always catches a rash of shit from a group of us, any time something happens. Yesterday, for instance. Or like the guy that tried to bomb the building in downtown. It's just something we all do. We tell him to call his cousins off, among many other harsh, crude, but all in jest jokes. I call him a terrorist every single time we speak. Because of this, I don't know if someone could be listening, etc. Sure, this example is highly insignificant, but surely you can see where I'm going with this.

You said "talk" which left any form of communication fair game. Only communication that is transmitted via wire or electronically is monitored. The govt is not evesdropping on your spoken conversations at work.

Even with the situation you mentioned, how many visits from the FBI have you had?

Get my point?

[tenacious j]

Originally Posted by Vertnut

Because the only laws greater then the Patriot Act, are those of "political correctness", and THOSE will be the death of us as a nation.

so how does the pa help americans if they won't use it on muslims?

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Originally Posted by bcoop

What the fuck ever happened to privacy?

It was just an illusion, we've never actually had it.

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by bcoop

Not at all. Did you not see the new capabilities of OnStar? Can you not see that being abused? It's all one in the same. And again, "If you don't have anything to hide, why do you care if LEOs can tune in to the conversation taking place in your car?


Bullshit excuse. What the fuck ever happened to privacy?

The only "new" capability of OnStar that I recently heard was that OnStar could disable the car like a bait car.

So, are you worried that some OnStar employee will hear you fucking in your car? Are you more worried about the govt misusing the capability, or the minimum wage OnStar employee that can access your car? Because I guarantee you the latter will happen more frequently.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Thousands of times a day? Where?

All over this country. You seem to have this notion that because YOU don't do it, or because you *think* your subordinates don't do it, it doesn't happen anywhere else. Bullshit.

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

Just because it happens somewhere else, don't accuse me of doing it, or lumping me into the same category.

I not once have accused you of doing so. I just knew you'd try and deny that it ever happens, exactly like you did.


I'm not lumping you in to anything. Your profession of choice did that for you.

[stinginstang]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

We'll have to cross that bridge when we get there. We're talking about the present.

Can ANYBODY tell me from personal experience one freedom that has been infringed since the PA?

Anybody?

That's how the Gov't works - they just nibble a little bit away at a time of your freedoms. There would be too much revolt if they tried to do it all at the same time.

[Vertnut]

Originally Posted by tenacious j

so how does the pa help americans if they won't use it on muslims?

It doesn't, and that's my point. To not "racially profile" is more of an issue. How many little old ladies have been caught with bombs on them, yet the airport security guards check everyone at "random", while folks with turbans and burka's on cruise right through the line. This isn't "rumor", because I've seen it first hand.

[Mustangman_2000]

Originally Posted by Lason

So you would be ok with GPS tracking devices implanted into your body for government use? If your not breaking the law its no big deal right? It wouldnt affect your daily life either so you would be ok with it?

I think you're over-reacting and exaggerating just a bit.

Also, if you are concerned about being tracked or privacy issues, then remove the battery from your cell or destroy it. You're walking around with a GPS tracking device in your pocket that can also be remotely turned on. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html

Or you could also starting wearing tin foil hats. Whatever makes you comfortable, I guess.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by 03trubluGT

The only "new" capability of OnStar that I recently heard was that OnStar could disable the car like a bait car.

So, are you worried that some OnStar employee will hear you fucking in your car? Are you more worried about the govt misusing the capability, or the minimum wage OnStar employee that can access your car?

They can now listen to conversations taking place in the car. That came, along with the ability to disable the car.


http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-5109435.html

I can't believe I'm having to defend my fucking right to privacy. Has this world gone nuts? Sure, a judge ruled against law enforcement using this capability. But that doesn't mean it's not going to happen, if it hasn't happened already. You know, kinda like govt using FLIR with no warrant. You've defended that to your death, saying it doesn't happen, even though multiple cases have been pointed out to you, proving that it does in fact happen.


To answer your question. I'm worried about the misuse. To be honest, it's quite scary that the capabilities even exist. Same goes with them tapping in to your cell phone, and having the ability to listen to any conversation taking place around said cell phone.


Big Brother is watching.

[bcoop]

Originally Posted by Vertnut

It doesn't, and that's my point. To not "racially profile" is more of an issue. How many little old ladies have been caught with bombs on them, yet the airport security guards check everyone at "random", while folks with turbans and burka's on cruise right through the line. This isn't "rumor", because I've seen it first hand.

Yep. I've seen them go out of their way to let the Middle Easterners right on through, and hassle old white women, or old white men, just to show they aren't profiling. I've witnessed it on countless occasions.



Look. Stereotypes exist for a reason. So does profiling. Sucks that people are so damn sensitive that they can't stand it. Instead of complaining, they should do more to break down the stereotypes, rather than complain about profiling.

[Lason]

Originally Posted by Mustangman_2000

I think you're over-reacting and exaggerating just a bit.

Also, if you are concerned about being tracked or privacy issues, then remove the battery from your cell or destroy. You're walking around with a GPS tracking device in your pocket that can also be remotely turned on. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html

Or you could also starting wearing tin foil hats. Whatever makes you comfortable, I guess.

BUT with my constitution in place I dont have to worry about the misuse of the GPS in my phone, my car, etc. But according to the PA, it can be used if someone give the go ahead.

Its a 2 way street for sure. Im all for catching terrorist but not if it means giving up my rights as a US citizen.

And no, a GPS tracker is not over reacting. News stories have already shown where GPS is used and IMO is similar to allowing the government to know my buisness handled over the phone.

[Mustangman_2000]

Originally Posted by bcoop

It's not rude. It's just an observation. I mean, surely you can see the similarities between the two.


LEO: License and Registration, please
Citizen: Here you go.
LEO: You mind if I take a look through your car?
Citizen: Actually, I do mind.
LEO: We can do this one of two ways. You can let me search your car now, or I can detain you until a K-9 unit gets here. If you don't have anything to hide....

This is interesting and I feel the need to comment here. I have been pulled over probably 20 times in my life. Everything from speeding 100 in a 70, exhibition of acceleration, expired inspection, being parked at Luna watching street racing, etc...

You know what? Not one single time have I had a cop ask to search my car. I also never had drugs in my car, open containers, was intoxicated, no warrants, or belligerent.

When I was in Paramedic school I did ride outs with the Coppell PD. There are reasons a cop gets engrossed in your business. Are there overzealous cops, yes. However, I've seen this process happen with a good cop. And there are triggers for this event. People who always bitch about police harassment are usually not giving you the full story as to why they were harassed. Kind of like that dumbass that posted the other day about getting pulled over after rapping out 1st gear in front of the cops. Then he was complaining about getting pulled over. Stupid is as stupid does.

[03trubluGT]

Originally Posted by bcoop

All over this country. You seem to have this notion that because YOU don't do it, or because you *think* your subordinates don't do it, it doesn't happen anywhere else. Bullshit.

I not once have accused you of doing so. I just knew you'd try and deny that it ever happens, exactly like you did.


I'm not lumping you in to anything. Your profession of choice did that for you.

And how many times does this happen to you? Once a day, week, month?

I could reply to you in each thread of this nature that I can predict how you will think/act/react because you've been on the recieving end of LEO, but I don't. I respect you enough to not do that, but you in turn choose to do so.

[Mustangman_2000]

Originally Posted by Lason

BUT with my constitution in place I dont have to worry about the misuse of the GPS in my phone, my car, etc. But according to the PA, it can be used if someone give the go ahead.

Its a 2 way street for sure. Im all for catching terrorist but not if it means giving up my rights as a US citizen.

And no, a GPS tracker is not over reacting. News stories have already shown where GPS is used and IMO is similar to allowing the government to know my buisness handled over the phone.

Show me where GPS devices are being implanted into American citizens. I would like to read about that.