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Unread 02-05-2007, 08:38 PM   #1
cooper93
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Laws on shooting someone on your property??

Last night my neighbor got robbed by two guys that came to his back door and said they were cops. They shined flashlights in his windows and demanded that he open the door. After showing a fake badge, he opened the door. They smashed his head into the wall and put a knife to his back and told him they were going to kill him.
Next thing he knew it got quiet and he turned around and ran to my house. I woke up to him banging on my door crying for help. I had him at gun point for 5 minutes or so til I realized he was telling the truth. He was in some major shock and bleeding from his nose and mouth.
I had never seen that guy before( he just moved in that day) and he freaked me out. A bloody guy pressed up against my door window at 5 AM saying "help me help me" almost got shot, but I eneded up letting him in and helped him.
This shit has happened alot in austin lately and I want to know what I can and can't do.
Anyways, I want to know what the laws are in a situation like this.
Can I shoot someone through my back door? Do they have to be inside?
I heard that if they are even in my car on my property I can shoot them?
Can I shoot them if they are in my yard?..Backyard?

Here's a link to one that happened hours earlier.
http://www.news8austin.com/content/t...sp?ArID=178776
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Unread 02-05-2007, 08:51 PM   #2
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Me personally i would not shoot some one unless my life was in danger, such as someone in my house. You have to remember legal or not you will go to court for it. And you want to be completely in the right. Shooting someone who is beating on your door will probably get you a ticket to jail. You just need to ask your self is shooting some kid breaking into your car really worth it? The laws in Texas are very weird when it comes to shooting someone on your property. I have them in some notes some where from one of my Cj classes but not sure where they are at. Im sure someone can find a link online.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 09:09 PM   #3
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I just want to know the laws on this kind of thing. If they are threatening me through my back door, I can't shoot them in my yard?
This has happened on Sunday afternoon, 12AM this morning, and 5AM this morning.
I have alot of windows too. Kind of creeping me out.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 09:25 PM   #4
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you cannot shoot a robber in your own home unless he/she attacks you first. then you can claim self defense. IF you do shoot them without them attacking you, they can actually sue you. pretty fucked up law, but most laws are.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:03 PM   #5
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You can shoot anyone in your house. Just ask Cullum Davis and Racehorse Haines. Have a BIG bag of money and make sure there is only one story.

On a real note see Subchapter B. Pages 50 thru 55, Texas Concealed Handgun Laws 2006. Pretty wide open laws at night.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:16 PM   #6
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Im pretty sure if you wake up to someone in your home you can shoot them without a doubt.(Texas) Just make sure you kill them. A dead man tells no lies. Doesn't matter if they brought you roses. I
Im just not sure on the property situation.
I guess from what I've been researching, if someone bangs on your back door, wait for them to come in. As soon as they break in, empty the gun on them.
Remember the case when the father and son waited on their rooftop for the car vandlers. They didn't see a day of jail.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:24 PM   #7
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:32 PM   #8
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Ive asked my friend going to law school the same thing. He said if they are on your dwelling and you feel your life is being threatend you can shoot. If they are just in your house with your tv in their hands and you shoot them it can be major trouble for you, and if they attempt to run away and you shoot them thats the worst thing you can do even if they are running away with your stuff.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:37 PM   #9
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in something like this, the only good witness is a dead one.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black2002ls
in something like this, the only good witness is a dead one.

well i guess if you shoot them, dont shoot them in the leg. aim for the head and say you thought they were a tv stealing zombie
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:41 PM   #11
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Ah, just as I thought.
Thanks,
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Unread 02-05-2007, 10:49 PM   #12
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I wouldn't ask for legal advise on this board, you might find yourself in trouble.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 11:00 PM   #13
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You have the right to protect yourself and property or the self and property of a third person. Does that mean bust out in your driveway and put a cap in someone stealing your 150 dollar car radio. Technically you could, but you have to live with that and the civil judgement that would surely follow. Just because you can do it does not mean it is right.

Now if someone is in your house, breaking into it, you have the right to use deadly force to protect yourself. You do not have to be attacked. Also Texas is a non retreat state, so that works in your favor. Just dont do something that you will have to live with the rest of your life. I know everyone talks about shooting this and shooting that, but when it gets down to the nut cuttin it is alot harder then you think. Remember your 1/1000th decision will affect alot of people for a very long time.

I dont think it would be wise to start shooting through any object to get to a person. That will not look good on you when the Grand Jury looks at the case for dismissal or indictment.

You could do a Google search on the Texas Penal Code and Code of Criminal Procedure to find out.

Just a though,
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Unread 02-05-2007, 11:09 PM   #14
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Texas laws have changed recently. You can use deadly force to protect you and your property. I will shoot someone in my home or outside my home, if I "fear for my life". That is the key phrase..."I feared for my life". Memorize it, and you shall be free.
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Unread 02-05-2007, 11:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
Texas laws have changed recently. You can use deadly force to protect you and your property. I will shoot someone in my home or outside my home, if I "fear for my life". That is the key phrase..."I feared for my life". Memorize it, and you shall be free.
Exactamundo!
The situation I was in last night was pretty intense. This dude was shaking so bad he looked like he was having a seizure. He was bleeding and in major shock. He didn't know if they were still in the house or not. My neighborhood is totally dark with my porch light being the only one on. I felt so bad for the guy. He couldn't even talk to the cops on the phone, I had to take over.
I don't think i'd loose a wink of sleep for blasting two robbers that night.
The cops that showed up were fucking morons and were only there for about 30 minutes.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 05:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadW3@aol.com
Also Texas is a non retreat state, so that works in your favor. Just dont do something that you will have to live with the rest of your life. I know everyone talks about shooting this and shooting that, but when it gets down to the nut cuttin it is alot harder then you think.
Not yet it isn't. http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/Releases.aspx?ID=8824

The "castle doctrine" hasn't passed yet, meaning you must attempt to flee before using deadly force. Kill the crackhead just for kicking in your door and his crackbabies will sue your ass. You likely won't get charged with murder, it'd never stick, but wrongful death will with the wrong jury.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 05:34 AM   #17
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Really guys... your best reference is the Texas Penal Code.

Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 05:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by BP
Not yet it isn't. http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/Releases.aspx?ID=8824

The "castle doctrine" hasn't passed yet, meaning you must attempt to flee before using deadly force. Kill the crackhead just for kicking in your door and his crackbabies will sue your ass. You likely won't get charged with murder, it'd never stick, but wrongful death will with the wrong jury.
I believe the "castle doctrine" will basically add protection for persons using force authorized by law from lawsuits filed by injured criminal attackers or their families. You can already justify any means necessary under these conditions, but you're not exempt from a civil suit.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 06:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Denny
Really guys... your best reference is the Texas Penal Code.

Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
Denny, isn't that what I said? I'm not going to shoot some fucker over my wheels, BUT if I confront him and fear for my life, I can react. "Property" covers a lot of ground. (No pun intended )
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Unread 02-06-2007, 06:09 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
Denny, isn't that what I said? I'm not going to shoot some fucker over my wheels, BUT if I confront him and fear for my life, I can react. "Property" covers a lot of ground. (No pun intended )
Ya, but I was just giving them something black and white to fall back on.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 06:48 AM   #21
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I believe the "castle doctrine" will basically add protection for persons using force authorized by law from lawsuits filed by injured criminal attackers or their families. You can already justify any means necessary under these conditions, but you're not exempt from a civil suit.
The only real problem with that law is the possibility of a no knock police raid being served. Shoot a cop regardless of the circumstances and you're going to jail, if you survive the trip.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 06:53 AM   #22
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The only real problem with that law is the possibility of a no knock police raid being served. Shoot a cop regardless of the circumstances and you're going to jail, if you survive the trip.
You're not covered by the law if you're wanted for a felony or a current Felon or in the process of a crime.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 07:37 AM   #23
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hehe. Talked about that this weekend with my dad.

If they break into your house, you get to kill them.

If they they come in your yard and threaten you with bodily harm, you can shoot them.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 07:41 AM   #24
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hehe. Talked about that this weekend with my dad.

If they break into your house, you get to kill them.

If they they come in your yard and threaten you with bodily harm, you can shoot them.
LMFAO!!!! You just keep tellin' yourself that, son.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 08:06 AM   #25
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Its best to let the person just kick the door open. If you aren't a felon then start fucking blasting.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 09:54 AM   #26
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Its best to let the person just kick the door open. If you aren't a felon then start fucking blasting.
I agree with that, if you kick my door in, I fear for my kids, you die end of story.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 10:05 AM   #27
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So if you've been convicted of a felony, you can't protect yourself/family???? That's crazy.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 12:08 PM   #28
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So if you've been convicted of a felony, you can't protect yourself/family???? That's crazy.
Oh, you can, but you won't have that exemption from a civil suit. Felons don't have as many rights as the rest of us. Just goes with the lifestyle.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 12:16 PM   #29
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So if you've been convicted of a felony, you can't protect yourself/family???? That's crazy.
Felons are not allowed to own a firearm.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 12:50 PM   #30
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Not only that but a dishonorable discharge puts you in the same category as a felon. Your second amendment protections do not apply the same as other protections.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 12:53 PM   #31
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Killing anyone is against the law, period.

What you guys are talking about are defenses to prosecution. That means the DA can still prosecute, the judge can still convene a grand jury, a grand jury can still indict, the state can still prosecute and you can in fact be found guilty of murder regardless of any logical interpretation of the law.

Sometimes its best just to feed them to the hogs.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 12:56 PM   #32
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Sounds like premeditated to me.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:03 PM   #33
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Sounds like premeditated to me.
Plan on having someone break into your house? I highly doubt it.

Scott, you're right, but those chances would be VERY slim for an incident meeting the criteria. I'll take my chances convincing 1 out of 12 than to bury a loved one.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:07 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Denny
Plan on having someone break into your house? I highly doubt it.

Scott, you're right, but those chances would be VERY slim for an incident meeting the criteria. I'll take my chances convincing 1 out of 12 than to bury a loved one.
I was just being my usual stupid self Dennis. It does seem as if the thread starter is just looking for an excuse to shoot someone though.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:10 PM   #35
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I was just being my usual stupid self Dennis. It does seem as if the thread starter is just looking for an excuse to shoot someone though.
As am I... both being stupid AND looking for an excuse to shoot
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:16 PM   #36
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Actualy a felon can protect themselves. I would refer back to the penal code again. A felon that been off "paper" or his conviction by final disposition is five years or older can keep a firearm at his residence. NO WHERE ELSE. It is in black and white printed there.

I have seen a person killed on a front porch before and the "defendant" not indicted. It was ruled self defense. So the "perp" does not have to be inside your residence. It is about being in fear of your life.

Anytime you shoot any person, there will be a civil lawsuit. Promise, there are lawyers that watch the news and live for times like that.

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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:17 PM   #37
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Not only that but a dishonorable discharge puts you in the same category as a felon. Your second amendment protections do not apply the same as other protections.
Interesting.
I never knew that.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:20 PM   #38
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Actualy a felon can protect themselves. I would refer back to the penal code again. A felon that been off "paper" or his conviction by final disposition is five years or older can keep a firearm at his residence. NO WHERE ELSE. It is in black and white printed there.

I have seen a person killed on a front porch before and the "defendant" not indicted. It was ruled self defense. So the "perp" does not have to be inside your residence. It is about being in fear of your life.

Anytime you shoot any person, there will be a civil lawsuit. Promise, there are lawyers that watch the news and live for times like that.

Eric
Right, but that's why this bill is such a big deal. It's like no being able to be sued for trying to render aid under the Good Sumaritan Law. And once again, a felon can defend himself/herself, but won't be exempt under the Castle Doctrine.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:24 PM   #39
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Shoot below the waist. Say you just intended to slow him down not to kill him...
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:27 PM   #40
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Shoot below the waist. Say you just intended to slow him down not to kill him...
No. Aim for center mass. Shoot to stop, not to kill or injure. Eliminate the threat.


BIG difference when having to defend your actions later.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:29 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by RoadW3@aol.com
Actualy a felon can protect themselves. I would refer back to the penal code again. A felon that been off "paper" or his conviction by final disposition is five years or older can keep a firearm at his residence. NO WHERE ELSE. It is in black and white printed there.
Federal law says otherwise.
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Originally Posted by http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
(9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:33 PM   #42
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Federal law says otherwise.
The domicile isn't listed, though.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:34 PM   #43
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Plan on having someone break into your house? I highly doubt it.

Scott, you're right, but those chances would be VERY slim for an incident meeting the criteria. I'll take my chances convincing 1 out of 12 than to bury a loved one.
Oh definitely, I just thought I would make it clear that the law is the law, and what everybody thinks is legal is really just a defense.

If I am on a jury and you killed a thief, I would let you walk even if you held the bastard captive and tortured him for years. Even if it were my kid. I simply hate thieves.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 01:36 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
The domicile isn't listed, though.
As it was explained to me that states in legalese that they are not allowed to posses a firearm or ammunition in any way and it is indefinete, there is no term in which they regain their Right to Bare Arms.

Here it is broke down to normal speak. I thought I found a loophole being that if the gun was produced in the state a felon could posses it as long as it had not crossed a state line but this pretty much sums it up.
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Originally Posted by http://www.hwylaw.com/CM/Articles/Articles88.asp#N_3_
3. 8 U.S.C. §922(g)(1) provides that it is unlawful for any person "who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year . . . to possess . . . any firearm or ammunition."
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I have my windows open, started to smell like someone shit on my window ledge, realized it was the pungent stench of socialism. Sorry if there is any typos in this post, hard to read shit through this gas mask.

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Unread 02-06-2007, 02:10 PM   #45
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I do believe the felon has no right to purchase, ship, or receive a firearm. I'll look into it, though.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 02:18 PM   #46
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18 USC 922(g)(1) without the spaces, dots, etc.

It shall be unlawful for any person who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.


A domicile isn't in or affecting commerce.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 06:54 PM   #47
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To the thread starter, as I understand the law as it sits at this moment, you have a "duty" to retreat, if possible, from your house unless there are others in the house with you that cannot retreat(such as children or a spouse in a room seperate from you, or you are upstairs, etc...)
If you feel your life is threatened then you can use deadly force(if you make your presence known and he does anything you deem as threatening)
If he turns and runs he is not threatening you and you will get it in the butt if you kill him! for now atleast
Outside of the house you're not going to get away with shooting someone over theft unless you confront them and you feel your life is in danger .

The Castle Doctrine, as I understand it so far, states that you will no longer have a duty to retreat from a thief in your house, your car, or your business; Meaning you can use deadly force before your life has been threatened to stop the burglary/ensure your safety. Also I believe as far as a car is concerned it's referring to you being in the car i.e. you are getting car-jacked. I'm not sure how it will affect a car in the driveway.
It also states, as I understand it, that you will be protected from civil suits brought on by family members of perps, or perps themselves if you shoot them.

Last edited by 99SVTour; 02-06-2007 at 07:00 PM.
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Unread 02-06-2007, 10:41 PM   #48
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if you shoot and kill someone for peeking in your window, a jury will most likely BURY you. there has to be some type of proof that you were indeed fearing for your life. a good example was someone kicking in your door. hardest thing to do in court would be proving that they were trying to cause you harm. if your door was broken down, there's your proof. some dude peaking in your window? duck tape your asshole because you're going to jail.
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Unread 02-08-2007, 01:52 AM   #49
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Actually, there are a few ways of working around it. The law is brilliant in that it is built with loopholes and such. That's the reason I went to law school. They're right though, someone in your home? Clean slate, shoot.

Someone stealing you're stuff AT NIGHT? You can still technically shoot.

The thing is, you have to live with shooting someone. As someone who has taken lives in the line of duty, you do pay a hard price for pulling that trigger. One that you will deal with the rest of your life.
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Unread 02-09-2007, 12:38 AM   #50
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1991vert is full of all kinds of bad advise lol.....

i didn't read the entire thread but to your original question yes you can shoot them through a backdoor ect. like others were saying if there is a fear of serious bodily injury. At night if they are stealing your property and you fear your not ever gunna get it back bust a cap in their bitch ass. Techniqually you can shoot and kill someone for toilet papering your house at night. Not that i'd recommend it but its ok as far as the penal code goes. And as someone else stated no matter what your going to end up going to court for any shooting you do. It doesn't matter if the person is inside raping your s.o. with a knife to their throat if you kill them your still going to have to see if you get no billed. There's an old saying that is a good one in this type of stuff when it comes to fear for your life. Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
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