Our President said "May God continue to bless America"

[Monsoon X]

Isn't that bad?

[lowthreeohz]

it's better than him talking about a peanut butter sandwich.

[Tomcat427]

I want GOD to continue blessing me! I ask for his blessings every day!

[AbecX]

Originally posted by lowthreeohz
it's better than him talking about a peanut butter sandwich.
or talking about how he's banned from ls1.com....... again....

[lowthreeohz]

Originally posted by AbecX
or talking about how he's banned from ls1.com....... again....

That's it cruz, i'm spitting in your bowl at BD's next time i see you. :p

[KJ94GT]

Originally posted by Monsoon X
Isn't that bad?

Only if you're a PC-extremist! :p

[Girls can too]

Originally posted by halo/horns
I clapped when I heard him say that. I'm so happy he still uses God and religious references.
Can I get an AMEN. :) Whether you believe in God or not, it should be viewed only as a reference for HOPE. I can't understand why non-believers get so out of sorts, not looking at it as such. Why not add an Insert belief here __________ thing when the word God is used. But hey that's just me, my kid does her morning pledge to the American Flag, the Christian Flag and the Bible, none of which will ever be changed at her school.

[KJ94GT]

Bingo!

[Monsoon X]

I know it's a good thing but, I know a few people on this site threw up their food when they heard it! LOL

Our President is a "sheep"!!!! :eek:

[lowthreeohz]

Originally posted by Monsoon X
Our President is a "sheep"!!!! :eek:

ill give an AMEN to that!!!

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Monsoon X
I know it's a good thing but, I know a few people on this site threw up their food when they heard it! LOL

Our President is a "sheep"!!!! :eek:

Lol.

One thing about Bush, born again or not, he is steadfast in his convictions. Regardless of what you believe, you have to respect him for that.

[KJ94GT]

Baaa... baaa.
Where's Ryan?

[Peep]

I thought the speech was nuculer!!!

:D

[mustang_marc]

Originally posted by Elapidae
I thought the speech was nuculer!!!

:D LOL. That was pretty obvious in his speech last night.

[Ponyperformance8]

Its awesome what he said, we need God's blessing always, ecspecially now. Bush is a very faithfull man and I applaud him for it, its exactly what we need after the pitifull excuse for a man we had in office last.
Will

[lowthreeohz]

yea, right, we need a leader who has his religious beleifs tied up in the politics.. riiiiiight.. :rolleyes:

[Dave88LX]

Seriously, who fucking cares?

I'd say probably 80-90% of our country bases beliefs off religeon. Fuck the other 10-20 % who are "offended" by it. I'm not pro or anti religeon. I'm somewhere in the middle as a "lost sheep" if you will, but I'm not going to say that the President fucked up his speech by putting "God bless" in it. "God Bless America" has been one of the biggest patriotic "catch phrases" for quite some time now. Why the problem now?

Just my $.02.

[lilthumper]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Lol.

One thing about Bush, born again or not, he is steadfast in his convictions. Regardless of what you believe, you have to respect him for that.

:eek: I don't believe what I just read. Is this really 01whitecobra?

[lowthreeohz]

WHOA there, i never said that he fucked it up, if i am who that is directed at. But, with the "separation of church and state" which is complete bullshit, i find it amusing that religion is such a huge part of politics, as much as it shouldn't be. I'm nor pro or anti religion either, i too consider myself one of the "lost sheep", but there should be a boundary somewhere..

[AbecX]

Originally posted by lilthumper
:eek: I don't believe what I just read. Is this really 01whitecobra?
He must've installed linux and he has a new, better outlook on life :p

Edit: Fixed by Linux Dumbass Check v1.0a

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by lilthumper
:eek: I don't believe what I just read. Is this really 01whitecobra?

Hey, I'm all for a person who is steadfast in his convictions and doesn't waffle to the whim of the masses. There is nothing in this country or its Constitution that precludes the President from blessing the nation with his belief.

Bush thinks enough of this nation that he calls on his God to bless it. That's cool with me.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by AbecX
He must've installed linux and he has a knew, better outlook on life :p :mad:

[lowthreeohz]

Originally posted by AbecX
He must've installed linux and he has a knew, better outlook on life :p


linux doesn't have spellcheck?
:p

[AbecX]

Originally posted by lowthreeohz
linux doesn't have spellcheck?:p
It does, it just doesnt have dumbass check :(

[lowthreeohz]

Dont be so hard on yourself! :D

[AbecX]

Its fixed now, I installed the new kernel.

[lowthreeohz]

lmao. what kernel would that be? 4.20.6969

u sure you didn't just rehash the same old non-dumbass-checking kernel you were using before?

[Boost Addict]

Originally posted by lowthreeohz
yea, right, we need a leader who has his religious beleifs tied up in the politics.. riiiiiight.. :rolleyes:

That's one of the reasons I voted for him. There are several people on here who believe the same, without God we have no hope. This is a nation built "under God" and we've lived pretty fat and happy that way since 1776...why in the world would we want to start denying God in our speeches, shools, and politics now?

And I don't know who thinks Dubya is a "sheep", but he's definitely going against the grain of current world politics on this one...I'd say he's anything but a "sheep".

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Girls can too
Can I get an AMEN. :) Whether you believe in God or not, it should be viewed only as a reference for HOPE. I can't understand why non-believers get so out of sorts, not looking at it as such. Why not add an Insert belief here __________ thing when the word God is used. But hey that's just me, my kid does her morning pledge to the American Flag, the Christian Flag and the Bible, none of which will ever be changed at her school.

I'm so sure everyone would feel that way if he had said "And may Satan continue to bless America" ..........yea......didn't think so.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Hollywood
I'm so sure everyone would feel that way if he had said "And may Satan continue to bless America" ..........yea......didn't think so.
lol, yea,,, that wouldnt have sounded good:p

[sbaxter]

As long as he has the best interest for America in mind, that's all that really matters. Of course, the fact that he will rid us of a few arabs is a good thing also. May God* bless America!

* God may or may not be referring to the religious entity.

:p

[slvr01]

It concerns me that religion and politics get mixed together. Just look at the countries we are dealing with right now. I believe that they are all goverments who have some sort of religious base. That is a tool they use to suppress the people of there respective countries.

[sbaxter]

Originally posted by slvr01
It concerns me that religion and politics get mixed together. Just look at the countries we are dealing with right now. I believe that they are all goverments who have some sort of religious base. That is a tool they use to suppress the people of there respective countries.

But Christianity is miles different than Islam. These countries that are based on Islam, Actually refer to the Koran that was written so very long ago to deal with current problems. One of their "laws" is that if anyone talks against the Koran then the people in the street should tear this person apart from limb to limb. Yet, they want to be called a civilized society...

[lowthreeohz]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
why in the world would we want to start denying God in our speeches, shools, and politics now?



you spelled "schools" wrong ..and why would we want to start denying god in schools and politics? 5 words, Separation Of Church And State. It's the "law".

[lowthreeohz]

Originally posted by sbaxter
... refer to the Koran that was written so very long ago to deal with current problems.

unless you're reading the King James version, your bible isn't anything new.

[Boost Addict]

Originally posted by lowthreeohz
you spelled "schools" wrong ..and why would we want to start denying god in schools and politics? 5 words, Separation Of Church And State. It's the "law".

Sorry about misspelling schools. I'm an engineer...and spelling errors are not generally an issue in a civilized discussion like we're trying to have. Try to stay on topic.

Yes, separation of church and state is the "law". But when dealing with issues such as war and politics, those in power have to consider to moral fabric, beliefs, goals, and ideals of it's citizens. As a whole, this country is a Christian nation...and those that are not are generally peaceful people who cling to the same principals of peace, freedom, and humanity as Christians. Therefore, the "church" doesn't necessarily get involved in the day to day operations of politics...but the morals and ideals that make up the "church" become a part of critical decision making and deplomacy.

[lowthreeohz]

hmm..Thats where everyone seems to have gone wrong we are NOT simply a "christian" nation, so dont say we are. our nation is a conglomeration of all sorts of religions, and there is no way that we should disregard what anyone who isn't of christian beleif thinks. Politics and religion are on two seperate tables, and should be left that way. its stupid to say just bc the predominance of our nation is christian , we can forget what the other people who live here think. just seems childish to me.

[Boost Addict]

Originally posted by lowthreeohz
hmm..Thats where everyone seems to have gone wrong we are NOT simply a "christian" nation, so dont say we are. our nation is a conglomeration of all sorts of religions, and there is no way that we should disregard what anyone who isn't of christian beleif thinks. Politics and religion are on two seperate tables, and should be left that way. its stupid to say just bc the predominance of our nation is christian , we can forget what the other people who live here think. just seems childish to me.

We could go on all day about this, so we'll have to agree to disagree. But I'll point out a couple of additional items.

I highlighted the fact that there are those people in this country who are not Christian, but those who are not support the same ideals such as peach and freedom that all Christians believe in. Peace and freedom is preached in Islam for example only followers of Islam...Islam commands tearing non-believers limb from limb and anything else violent to destroy all others. Christians preach peace towards others...do unto others as you would like to be treated. When the Bible talks about love and peace, it is speaking of all people. In Islam, it only preaches love and peace toward Islam followers.

My point is: peace, freedom, and general love of mankind is a principal that is deeply imbedded into our country's democratic ideals and deplomacy. That comes from our roots as a God-fearing country. It can't and won't change overnight. So don't ask for the USA to forget about God...when that happens the earth will burn in the fires foretold in Revelation (go read it sometime).

Further, I never said we should forget about what anyone who is not a Christian says. I have plenty of friends who are not Christians (yet) and I listen to what they say. Example: I'm assuming you are not a Christian (if you are, we should talk because you have a few misconceptions), yet I am still sitting here having a civil discussion with you...not ignoring you like you indicated I would in your post.

Lastly, I think you misuse the word religion. The connotation of the word "religion" implies strict practice of faith, one ideal, one set of morals...in essence a very narrow minded meaning. In fact, that is not what we are arguing here. The term "Christian faith" is a rather broad term...many different denominations fall under this umbrella with somewhat different ideals on interpretations of the Bible...each of these are often called different religions. But the underlying principles are the same...peace, freedom, love toward others, etc. These are the underlying principles of our country and like it or not they come from a backbone of Christian faith in this country.

[sbaxter]

Originally posted by lowthreeohz
unless you're reading the King James version, your bible isn't anything new.

Don't take my words out of context. We're not running a country based on the bible. So where were you headed with this? :rolleyes:

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
Peace and freedom is preached in Islam for example only followers of Islam...Islam commands tearing non-believers limb from limb and anything else violent to destroy all others.

This is so wrong, I don't know where to start.

[Boost Addict]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
This is so wrong, I don't know where to start.

Then by all means, correct me. Islam is a peaceful faith only for believers of Islam...it does not preach peace TOWARD non-believers. That's a fact.

[Paladin]

I'm nor pro or anti religion either, i too consider myself one of the "lost sheep", but there should be a boundary somewhere..

Please feel free not to try and be one of the ones setting the boundary you say should be set, especially if you are a lost sheep when it comes to faith/religion. It's about time some belief other than self arousal/satisfaction is permeating the White House.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
Then by all means, correct me. Islam is a peaceful faith only for believers of Islam...it does not preach peace TOWARD non-believers. That's a fact.

You know, I should, but I'm tired and it properly wouldn't help you any. I think this is one that you need to research on your own. Then, you will understand how wrong your statement is.

BTW, do you consider Hitler a Christian? He considered himself one.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra

BTW, do you consider Hitler a Christian? He considered himself one. Satan talked as if he was a friend of men and helping Adam and Eve out by eating the forbiddin fruit. Do you think he really was a friend?

Here is a pic w/ some meaning of what makes a Christian other than words or self proclaiming

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 281R
Satan talked as if he was a friend of men and helping Adam and Eve out by eating the forbiddin fruit. Do you think he really was a friend?

Here is a pic w/ some meaning of what makes a Christian other than words or self proclaiming


Thanks 281R. I'll restate my point. When a person twists a religion to support their cause, it is a reflection on that person, not the religion.

[Monsoon X]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
You know, I should, but I'm tired and it properly wouldn't help you any. I think this is one that you need to research on your own. Then, you will understand how wrong your statement is.



You've been duped by the watered down version of Islam.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Monsoon X
You've been duped by the watered down version of Islam.

I get mine information from the Qur'an. What brain washed Christian version are you being duped by?

[talisman]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Please feel free not to try and be one of the ones setting the boundary you say should be set, especially if you are a lost sheep when it comes to faith/religion. It's about time some belief other than self arousal/satisfaction is permeating the White House.



I still dont get why everyone had their panties in a wad about Clinton getting a BJ. Jealousy? Just goes to show how patheticlly repressed civilization has become.

[Girls can too]

Originally posted by Hollywood
I'm so sure everyone would feel that way if he had said "And may Satan continue to bless America" ..........yea......didn't think so.

haha! No one said HE'D say that, I was refering to you non-believers. Add in Satan all you want. I'll just be sure to stand waaaaaaaaay over here. :p

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Girls can too
haha! No one said HE'D say that, I was refering to you non-believers. Add in Satan all you want. I'll just be sure to stand waaaaaaaaay over here. :p


No thanks, lol. What I meant is this. Believers/christians tend to say what you said in your previous post ("I can't understand why non-believers get so out of sorts when a reference to God is made") The only reason you don't get out of sorts is because the reference made is about a deity you serve and believe in. My point is this, if he had replaced God with Satan, every Christian in America would be ready to hang him. See what i'm saying? It's always great when others agree with you but I believe the leadership of this country needs to take a neutral stance on religion by leaving it out of the politics. Of course christians wouldn't agree with me on that topic and they won't until we end up with a Satanist as president or a follower of Islam, etc.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Hollywood
No thanks, lol. What I meant is this. Believers/christians tend to say what you said in your previous post ("I can't understand why non-believers get so out of sorts when a reference to God is made") The only reason you don't get out of sorts is because the reference made is about a deity you serve and believe in. My point is this, if he had replaced God with Satan, every Christian in America would be ready to hang him. See what i'm saying? It's always great when others agree with you but I believe the leadership of this country needs to take a neutral stance on religion by leaving it out of the politics. Of course christians wouldn't agree with me on that topic and they won't until we end up with a Satanist as president or a follower of Islam, etc. Well, one thing yet is that every leader in the world still has to submit themselves before the Lord. Even if an Islam or Satanist took a leadership role, God is still in control and even if that leader dosent want to submit to God, he will have to. Maybe this war is God's way of telling Sadaam that his rule is overwith. ;)

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by 281R
Well, one thing yet is that every leader in the world still has to submit themselves before the Lord. Even if an Islam or Satanist took a leadership role, God is still in control and even if that leader dosent want to submit to God, he will have to. Maybe this war is God's way of telling Sadaam that his rule is overwith. ;)

thats your belief. They would say the same thing to you. That you will answer to their God, not yours. where was your God during the Holocaust? the cambodian killing fields?
I'm going to stop right there because my intent was not start another religious argument but rather clear up a misunderstanding based on some comments made earlier in this thread.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Hollywood
thats your belief. But then, is it really my belief? Or is it the truth? I could say that I believe that there is no God, but that would be a relative truth to myself. But in absolute truth, it would be a lie and there is a God. ;)

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by 281R
But then, is it really my belief? Or is it the truth? I could say that I believe that there is no God, but that would be a relative truth to myself. But in absolute truth, it would be a lie and there is a God. ;)

and you have proof?

[trey85stang]

Originally posted by lowthreeohz
just seems childish to me.

This may be off topic, but childish is a person who sues about his daughter having to hear the word God in the pledge of allegiance.

Taking something away from this country something that it was built on will never be a good idea.

Taking religion out of school... was never a good idea. I do not hear Christians compaining about learning Greek mythology in English I. I feel relgion should be taught at school, not chritian religion or any particular but religion in a whole everyones everywhere's point of view and religious beleifs...

As for government, religion should be givin as part of a politicians campaign. If he is chritian, christian people should know his views and vote accordingly, if he is athiest, athiest people know his views and vote accordingly. Religion should be the politicans choice to use religion in thier work.

but then again.. this is all coming from a 22 y/o that does not know poltics very well... it jmo and the way i feel. sorry for typpos..

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Hollywood
and you have proof?
more proof than you got that there isnt one;)
besides, I dont need to provide you proof. God has already revealed Himself through nature and it's your blindness and corruption that is why you dont want to see Him.

[Boost Addict]

Originally posted by 281R
more proof than you got that there isnt one;)
besides, I dont need to provide you proof. God has already revealed Himself through nature and it's your blindness and corruption that is why you dont want to see Him.

Very well said, Lance.

BTW, I hate it when people say "where was your God during..blah blah blah"...the entire Old Testament is filled with reference to God commanding war and devastation on the wicked (i.e. Moses going into the holy land...or actually Joshua).

You know, James Dobson began his career setting out to prove there was no God and no basis for the Christian faith. Now, he obviously found proof and is one of the best known contemporary Christian authors. If you need proof, Hollywood, read some of his works...and then read the Bible itself. Noone has ever been able to disprove anything in the Bible...noone. But more evidence exists to support the Bible than exists to support for example the theory of evolution of man.

Just something to think about.

So the real question Hollywood is: Do you have proof He (God) doesn't exist?;)

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
Very well said, Lance.

You know, James Dobson began his career setting out to prove there was no God and no basis for the Christian faith.

Sure that wasn't Josh McDowell? He started "Evidence that Demands a Verdict: Historical Evidences for the Christian Faith" as a non-believer to disprove Christianity and ending up proving it to himself.

[talisman]

This thread is beginning to make me violently ill. Then again that happens almost everytime 281R posts.

[90GT50]

Originally posted by talisman
This thread is beginning to make me violently ill. Then again that happens almost everytime 281R posts.
did you eat nino's last night? that might be it;)

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by talisman
This thread is beginning to make me violently ill. Then again that happens almost everytime 281R posts.

http://www.mcclave.com/puke/

GOW - Gross out warning

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by talisman
This thread is beginning to make me violently ill. Then again that happens almost everytime 281R posts.
Christians and Jews have the same problem with Muslims, I hope disagreement dosent make you that violent:eek:
Seriously man, chill out and no need for hate. There is already enough hate in this world as it is. If you dont like my opinion or others opinions that it makes you so upset, dont read them.:)
I dont think any less of you;)

[talisman]

Originally posted by 281R
Christians and Jews have the same problem with Muslims, I hope disagreement dosent make you that violent:eek:
Seriously man, chill out and no need for hate. There is already enough hate in this world as it is. If you dont like my opinion or others opinions that it makes you so upset, dont read them.:)
I dont think any less of you;)


You can kiss my ass all day long, but it doesn't make you any less of an idiot.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by talisman
You can kiss my ass all day long, but it doesn't make you any less of an idiot.
Well, yes by your standard I would be an idiot to you, but I dont really care b/c your standard dosent matter, God's is the only one that dose.

PS: Im not kissing ass, just treating others how I would want to be treated in a disagreement

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 281R
Christians and Jews have the same problem with Muslims, I hope disagreement dosent make you that violent:eek:

Another Christian bigot who groups 1.2 billion Muslims into the same group!

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."
- Historian De Lacy O'Leary

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Another Christian bigot who groups 1.2 billion Muslims into the same group!

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."
- Historian De Lacy O'Leary
ok, well your right about that one. How about Muslim extremeist to be more exact?:)

[talisman]

Originally posted by 281R
Well, yes by your standard I would be an idiot to you,


Yes you would, thank you for restating my point. Anyone who says I condone the terrorist actions of 9/11 because I am an atheist like you did a couple of months ago is a severly twisted mentally challenged individual.

Originally posted by 281R

but I dont really care b/c your standard dosent matter, God's is the only one that dose.

PS: Im not kissing ass, just treating others how I would want to be treated in a disagreement

Thats funny, I've quite often seen you belittle people whose religious OPINIONS did not coincide with yours. Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? You can sit here and spout religous passages all day long, but just because you've figured out how to use google doesnt mean you have even the slightest grasp of the reality this world is based in.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by talisman
Yes you would, thank you for restating my point. Anyone who says I condone the terrorist actions of 9/11 because I am an atheist like you did a couple of months ago is a severly twisted mentally challenged individual.



Thats funny, I've quite often seen you belittle people whose religious OPINIONS did not coincide with yours. Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? You can sit here and spout religous passages all day long, but just because you've figured out how to use google doesnt mean you have even the slightest grasp of the reality this world is based in.
number one, your putting words into my mouth, I never said you condone the terrorist actions of 9/11. I simply stated that saying that as an athiest that stating 9/11 was an act of pure evil kinda contradicts being an athiest itself b/c the only standard you judge by is your own.

Belittle people is your opinion, I could say you Belittle people also because my or others religous opinion dose not coincide with your religious opinion. And please, God's Word (The Bible) is my major source of knowledge and wisdom but I havent quoted anything today, so quit the cheap come backs. Your problem with reality is your's is all material and you deny the spiritual. But thats ok, because all materalistic things will die but where will your soul be after death?

[talisman]

Originally posted by 281R
number one, your putting words into my mouth, I never said you condone the terrorist actions of 9/11. I simply stated that saying that as an athiest that stating 9/11 was an act of pure evil kinda contradicts being an athiest itself b/c the only standard you judge by is your own.



Its called knowing the difference between right and wrong, which, as hard as it may be for you understand, just because someone doesnt believe in god doesnt mean they are moralless. Here is the quote where you made that statement, which CLEARLY only gives one option, that of me not caring about what happened on 9/11:

Originally posted by 281R
People can be classified into two different types. Number one can be classified the people that think life has meaning and everything has a purpose with a supernatural force behind life. Two, the ones that think eveything is a coincidence and life has no meaning out of daily life. If you are in catagory one, you then seek to find what is the right religon and belief. What is the real meaning of life? If you are number two, then you life is pointless. Everything happens by the turn of the wheel. And what happened on 9/11 was not evil. It was just like killing a pile of fire ants. So which one are you?

Doesnt leave much room for there to be an in between. Either I believe in god, or I think it was SUPER that the WTCs were destroyed with massive loss of life.


Originally posted by 281R


Belittle people is your opinion, I could say you Belittle people also because my or others religous opinion dose not coincide with your religious opinion. And please, God's Word (The Bible) is my major source of knowledge and wisdom but I havent quoted anything today, so quit the cheap come backs.



Crap, here comes another cheap comeback. Thats like me living my life according to Dr Suess and deriving ALL my thought processes through it. Take a look at the world around you once in awhile.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Originally posted by 281R

Your problem with reality is your's is all material and you deny the spiritual. But thats ok, because all materalistic things will die but where will your soul be after death?

I dont worry about my so called soul. I dont think it even exsists. All I ask of death is for there to be nothingness, and and I'm perfectly fine with that. I dont need to cling to the hope that life actually ENDS and there's nothing after it.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by talisman
Its called knowing the difference between right and wrong, which, as hard as it may be for you understand, just because someone doesnt believe in god doesnt mean they are moralless. Here is the quote where you made that statement, which CLEARLY only gives one option, that of me not caring about what happened on 9/11:



Doesnt leave much room for there to be an in between. Either I believe in god, or I think it was SUPER that the WTCs were destroyed with massive loss of life.





Crap, here comes another cheap comeback. Thats like me living my life according to Dr Suess and deriving ALL my thought processes through it. Take a look at the world around you once in awhile.



I dont worry about my so called soul. I dont think it even exsists. All I ask of death is for there to be nothingness, and and I'm perfectly fine with that. I dont need to cling to the hope that life actually ENDS and there's nothing after it.
here we go again.
1# I stated either you think life has meaning and there is something more to it than existing, or there are the ones that just exist. And, did I ever say you didnt care, I was just saying that if you are in the second catagory "then why should you?"
Crap, here comes another cheap comeback. Thats like me living my life according to Dr Suess and deriving ALL my thought processes through it. Take a look at the world around you once in awhile. are you really that ignorant that I and everyone else around you dosent know the world around them. :confused: The only difference between me and you on the view of the world around us is interpretation.

And if you refuse to believe you dont have a soul and all you look forward to after death is nothingness, than you better hope your right because you might just be in for a surprise.

[talisman]

Originally posted by 281R

And if you refuse to believe you dont have a soul and all you look forward to after death is nothingness, they better hope your right because you might just be in for a surprise.


Belief by fear! Lookout for that brimstone!


I would respond to the rest of what you said but your post was so poorly edited that it became an alarming meld of myself and you talking at the same time. Please dont ever do that again. I feel dirty.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by talisman
Belief by fear! Lookout for that brimstone!


I would respond to the rest of what you said but your post was so poorly edited that it became an alarming meld of myself and you talking at the same time. Please dont ever do that again. I feel dirty.
I had to edit it because I put a word that wasnt in context and you put your [/QUOTE] in the wrong spot.

And know its not all about fire and brimstone, its about a free life changing gift to me to spend eternity with the creator;)

[talisman]

Originally posted by 281R

And know its not all about fire and brimstone, its about a free life changing gift to me to spend eternity with the creator;)


Sounds kind of homoerotic to me, but whatever floats your boat.

[Boost Addict]

talisman,

You are the classic example of someone who gets angry when they know they are wrong. Notice 281R has been calm and collected and you have resorted to name calling and personal insults.

This is a clear example of how a Christian treats others vs. how an athiest behaves. Where do you think morals come from? Do you honestly think they are a human creation? Morals, peace, the simple concept of freedom and even the concept of right vs. wrong are all derived from our roots as people of God. Your reactions in this thread only demonstrate how low and debase a conversation can be without approaching it from a standpoint of loving others before yourself.

If you so choose to resort to insulting 281R, then that is a reflection on yourself. 281R's reaction is a demonstration on what it means to live the free life of a Christian.

Flame away if you wish...I won't return those kind of responses, I'm just a little discouraged that you can't debate in a civil and respectful manner.

[NoSlix]

Tony, don't forget CS Lewis too. Set out to disprove the notion of God in the 1920s and ended up one of the greatest Christian writers also.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
Notice 281R has been calm and collected and you have resorted to name calling and personal insults.



Waaaa?????? He just profiled 1.2 billion Muslims in this world. Quite a Christian thought I may say.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Waaaa?????? He just profiled 1.2 billion Muslims in this world. Quite a Christian thought I may say.
and did you notice I said this... ok, well your right about that one. How about Muslim extremeist to be more exact? come on 01WhiteCobra, I am sure you make mistakes too;) And besides, you stereotyped Christians by putting Hitler in the same boat as Christians earlier

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Waaaa?????? He just profiled 1.2 billion Muslims in this world. Quite a Christian thought I may say. by the way, here is some of what the Quran teaches

5:14] And from those who call themselves Christians,

We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a

good part of the Message that was sent to them.

So We planted amongst them enmity and <B>hatred</B> till

the Day of Resurrection (when they discarded

Allah's Book, disobeyed Allah's Messengers and

His Orders and transgressed beyond bounds in

Allah's disobedience), and Allah will inform them

of what they used to do.

[9:29] <B>Fight against those</B> who (1) believe not in

Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid

that which has been forbidden by Allah and His

Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the

religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people

of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until

they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and

feel themselves subdued.

[9:34] O you who believe! Verily, there are many of

the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks who

devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and

hinder (them) from the Way of Allah (i.e. Allah's

Religion of Islamic Monotheism). And those who

hoard up gold and silver [Al-Kanz: the money, the

Zakat of which has not been paid], and spend it

not in the Way of Allah, -announce unto them a

<B>painful torment. </B>


[10:68] They (Jews, Christians and pagans) say: "Allah

has begotten a son (children)." Glory be to Him!

He is Rich (Free of all wants). His is all that

is in the heavens and all that is in the earth.

No warrant you have for this. Do you say against

Allah what you know not.

[10:69] Say: "Verily, those who invent lie against

Allah will never be successful" -

[10:70] A brief enjoyment in this world! - and then

unto Us will be their return, then We shall make

them taste the severest torment because they used

to disbelieve [in Allah, belie His Messengers,

deny and challenge His Ayat (proofs, signs,

verses, etc.)].


Yes it is wrong to put them all into the same basket, but the Quran (or this interpretation) dosent teach love and peace.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
Very well said, Lance.

BTW, I hate it when people say "where was your God during..blah blah blah"...the entire Old Testament is filled with reference to God commanding war and devastation on the wicked (i.e. Moses going into the holy land...or actually Joshua).

You know, James Dobson began his career setting out to prove there was no God and no basis for the Christian faith. Now, he obviously found proof and is one of the best known contemporary Christian authors. If you need proof, Hollywood, read some of his works...and then read the Bible itself. Noone has ever been able to disprove anything in the Bible...noone. But more evidence exists to support the Bible than exists to support for example the theory of evolution of man.

Just something to think about.

So the real question Hollywood is: Do you have proof He (God) doesn't exist?;)

Proof....dwell on this. I wasted several years of my life with religion. I worked for a large ministry between 1998-2000. I have watched family members and people from across the US give their last penny thinking they were giving to God. I watched peoples lives become destroyed because of faith. I guess suffereing is the way of this God you speak of. As he never seems to protect anyone or help out. So far here in Texas I have yet to see the hardline christians that exist in my home town but i'm sure they are here. The christians that refuse to date anyone outside their religion. Take my sisters faith for example. She is not allowed to wear pants, she is not allowed to wear makeup, swim in a lake if guys are in it as well, the list goes on. She gives her entire life to this God. Her, her husband and 2 kids. What do they have to show for it.....they live with her husbands parents because they have no money. Ignorance at its best. My point on that is, don't speak to me like I know nothing of religion. The entire religion is based on a book written by man, simple as that. A book written by man...That book has nothing to support it. Amazingly, we have records from several other cultures over the past thousand years, yet none of them make reference to these miracles the bible speaks of.
Once you understand the human mind, you understand mans obsession with religion and how hard it is to break him from the brainwashing the church has put on him. Oh, and it's brainwashing my friend. That much I can prove to you. Study brainwashing techniques, ideas, music, the beats used in all church hymms...they put the brain in a state in which it is more open to suggestion. Basically, reprogramming the brain. Accompany that with preachers using "voice roll". Now was this Gods decision to have the church use brainwashing techniques, or maybe it was man and his wicked ways praying upon those looking for something to believe in. If you chose the latter...then that could explain the reason the bible was created...you see, even in ancient times con men existed...

[Boost Addict]

Thanks Shane, forgot about that one.

Hollywood,

Your brainwashing theory and the fact that you know a couple of radicals does not disprove the existence of God. Sorry.

And yes, the Bible was written by man...but every word was God breathed. That means at the instruction of God, through God's very words and commands every word was written in the Bible. I do not understand how you think that is a weak point in the Christian faith.

Either way, it sounds like you have made up your mind on this one. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Since you were once in the ministry I'm sure you understand that there is only one thing a Christian can do to lose their salvation...and that is turn their back on God (Hebrews Ch.?). Please don't go that far. I can promise you that if you put all of your faith in God...all things will work to the good. I pray for you my friend, and I hope you find your way.

281R, good job on the research buddy!

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Hollywood
I wasted several years of my life with religion.
This right here is the problem. When people put religion and human traditions infront of God you will never have a relationship with Him. Read the Bible, Jesus Christ Himself speaks to the Jews about how they have let religon replace the relationship that they had with God. :)

[Juiced89lx]

Wow, a religious thread and 93coupe hasnt posted on it. ;)

[93coupe]

I'm just waiting for God to reply. So, I'll see you guys... never! HAHA.

Honestly, If you believe in God, try thinking on your own for once in your life. Why do you believe in God? Which God/Religion do you believe? Why? Of the hundreds of thousands of religions that exist, and have existed over the years since language, which ones are true? Which ones are false designed solely to control a group of people?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 93coupe
I'm just waiting for God to reply. So, I'll see you guys... never! HAHA.

Honestly, If you believe in God, try thinking on your own for once in your life. Why do you believe in God? Which God/Religion do you believe? Why? Of the hundreds of thousands of religions that exist, and have existed over the years since language, which ones are true? Which ones are false designed solely to control a group of people? 93coupe how many times do we have to tell you that we think on our own, (or) how many times do I need to tell you so we can have an intelligent conversation:rolleyes: Why do I believe in God? Because I have a relationship with Him just like you have w/ your parents (if you do so) I need no religon to have a relationship with my parents, so I need no religon to have a relationship with God. Only His words and promises are all that I need.

[Boost Addict]

Originally posted by 93coupe
I'm just waiting for God to reply. So, I'll see you guys... never! HAHA.

Honestly, If you believe in God, try thinking on your own for once in your life. Why do you believe in God? Which God/Religion do you believe? Why? Of the hundreds of thousands of religions that exist, and have existed over the years since language, which ones are true? Which ones are false designed solely to control a group of people?

93,

God only speaks to those who listen...so with that attitude you won't ever get any kind of reply.

As for thinking on my own...I'm 27 with two degrees and own my own consulting firm with several employees. Some would say I've done quite well thinking on my own...but none of my thinking would have gotten me anywhere without first placing my faith in God and giving Him the credit too many of us think we ourselves deserve. Seeking anything in this world is useless without God.

Personal experience time: I've had 3 partners in my life as a businessman. 2 were atheists and one is the most God fearing Christian I have ever met. Of the two atheists, each stole everything I developed for both of my consulting divisions (2 companies) over a course of 2 years and started their own businesses marketing my material (I'm currently involved in a legal battle with both). The third Christian business partner is currently marketing my satellite office and doing a great job, he and I have a great working relationship and will have for many years to come.

So, why do I believe in God? One of the reasons I just told you...because in my limited time in the business world those who don't believe have cost me on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars and more grief than you could imagine. My dealings with Christian people have resulted in nothing but joy and a sense of personal accomplishment. There are many other reasons...but I think the one that speaks volumes is simply looking at the lives lead by Christians and non-believers. Happiness, love, freedom, peace...all of these you will find in every true Christians life...either none or very little of this will be found in a non-believers life. Take a look around.

As for religion controlling people, I don't feel controlled at all...I'm more free than you could possibly understand. If you mean controlled as in happy, loved and loving, and all around excited about life...then yes, I'm controlled. And proud of it.

As for which one is true...I think you know my thoughts on that.

BTW, I appreciate the fact that you asked your questions in a non-hostile manner. Keep it that way, and I'll be glad to debate you in a civil manner all day long. Cool?;)

[93coupe]

There are many other reasons...but I think the one that speaks volumes is simply looking at the lives lead by Christians and non-believers. Happiness, love, freedom, peace...all of these you will find in every true Christians life...either none or very little of this will be found in a non-believers life. Take a look around.

Are you kidding me? Do you know anything of your religion's history?

What European or American Christian spin-off do you practice? What about your parents? What about their parents? Don't tell me you're the same religion as your parents!

Noone answered my question. Which of man's religions are true, and which are false?

Success doesn't equal intelligence.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 93coupe
Are you kidding me? Do you know anything of your religion's history?

What European or American Christian spin-off do you practice? What about your parents? What about their parents? Don't tell me you're the same religion as your parents!

Noone answered my question. Which of man's religions are true, and which are false?

Success doesn't equal intelligence.
its not about religon, it is about relationship. Who has the correct relationship with God should be the question. I know the answer, and Boot Addict knows the answer, but you'll never find the answer because your like a blind man leading a blind man by a cliff. You never see a glimpse of God's glory with blindness in your eyes.

[Bhujanga]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
There are many other reasons...but I think the one that speaks volumes is simply looking at the lives lead by Christians and non-believers. Happiness, love, freedom, peace...all of these you will find in every true Christians life...either none or very little of this will be found in a non-believers life. Take a look around.



Ouch - such well-meaning yet profoundly naive reasoning does not sit particularly well in light of actual facts:

A worldwide survey in 2000 by the Gallup polling agency found that 8% do not think there is in any spirit, personal God, or life force. Another 17% are not sure. However, more than half the world’s population, and more than 90% of the world’s scientists, do not believe in a personal God, and hence would be considered atheists by many Christians.

Based on your argument above, this more than significant amount of people thus lacks happiness, love, freedom and peace in their lives - surely, a thesis that you cannot honestly endorse!

As for the pointless discussions about disproving or proving the existence of God (or any God or Gods), perhaps you may want to devote some time and study into philosophical definitions of the various logical fallacies to which these discussions are prone, such as:

Argument To Ignorance: The argument to ignorance is a logical fallacy of irrelevance occurring when one claims that something is true only because it hasn't been proved false, or that something is false only because it has not been proved true. A claim's truth or falsity depends upon supporting or refuting evidence to the claim, not the lack of support for a contrary or contradictory claim. The fact that it cannot be proved that the universe is not designed by an Intelligent Creator does not prove that it is. Nor does the fact that it cannot be proved that universe is designed by an Intelligent Creator prove that it isn't.

Divine Fallacy: The divine fallacy is a species of non sequitur reasoning which goes something like this: I can't figure this out, so God must have done it. Or, This is amazing; therefore, God did it. Or, I can't think of any other explanation; therefore, God did it. Or, this is just too weird; so, God is behind it.

This fallacy is also a variation of the alien fallacy: I can't figure this out, so aliens must have done it. Or, This is amazing; therefore, aliens did it. Or, I can't think of any other explanation; therefore, aliens did it. Or, this is just too weird; so, aliens are behind it.

Begging The Question: Begging the question is what one does in an argument when one assumes what one claims to be proving.
An argument is a form of reasoning whereby one gives a reason or reasons in support of some claim. The reasons are called premises and the claim one tries to support with them is called the conclusion. If one's premises entail one's conclusion, and one's premises are questionable, one is said to beg the question.
The following argument begs the question: We know God exists because we can see the perfect order of His Creation, an order which demonstrates supernatural intelligence in its design.

The conclusion of this argument is that God exists. The premise assumes a Creator and Designer of the universe exists, i.e., that God exists. In this argument, the arguer should not be granted the assumption that the universe exhibits intelligent design, but should be made to provide support for that claim.

One more thought:
The majority of ethical theories and arguments in Western philosophy are not based on a belief in God. In fact, most of them have been developed specifically to establish moral values on non-religious grounds. This is not the place to try to explain Aristotle's ethics, or Bentham and Mill's Utilitarianism, or Kantian ethics, etc. I suppose I find it just as difficult to understand why you or anyone needs God to define morals for them. Would you really not be offended by rape if God said it was ok? Would murder not seem wrong to you if God did not forbid it? Could you live in a world where lying was as valued as telling the truth, even if God permitted lying?

You may think you are living according to God's word when you "love your neighbor as yourself" but it is you who has to put an interpretation on those words in a specific human context. It is you who decides how to act in a concrete situation. Such rules, even if they come from God, don't interpret themselves. You have to take full responsibility for how you act. If you want to believe that God inspires believers to interpret the rules "correctly" then you will have to explain why so many people who claim to be inspired by God contradict one another and often seek each other's destruction. In the final analysis, all moral rules are interpreted and applied by humans, which makes them human rules, whatever their origin. Your view makes it sound like we are all children who have to be told right from wrong because we will never grow up and figure it out for ourselves.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Bhujanga
and more than 90% of the world’s scientists, do not believe in a personal God, and hence would be considered atheists by many Christians. This is not a true acurate statement, but let me find first where it was stated at. I'll get back to this statement.
Originally posted by Bhujanga

Based on your argument above, this more than significant amount of people thus lacks happiness, love, freedom and peace in their lives - surely, a thesis that you cannot honestly endorse!

As for the pointless discussions about disproving or proving the existence of God (or any God or Gods), perhaps you may want to devote some time and study into philosophical definitions of the various logical fallacies to which these discussions are prone, such as:

Argument To Ignorance: The argument to ignorance is a logical fallacy of irrelevance occurring when one claims that something is true only because it hasn't been proved false, or that something is false only because it has not been proved true. A claim's truth or falsity depends upon supporting or refuting evidence to the claim, not the lack of support for a contrary or contradictory claim. The fact that it cannot be proved that the universe is not designed by an Intelligent Creator does not prove that it is. Nor does the fact that it cannot be proved that universe is designed by an Intelligent Creator prove that it isn't.

Divine Fallacy: The divine fallacy is a species of non sequitur reasoning which goes something like this: I can't figure this out, so God must have done it. Or, This is amazing; therefore, God did it. Or, I can't think of any other explanation; therefore, God did it. Or, this is just too weird; so, God is behind it.

This fallacy is also a variation of the alien fallacy: I can't figure this out, so aliens must have done it. Or, This is amazing; therefore, aliens did it. Or, I can't think of any other explanation; therefore, aliens did it. Or, this is just too weird; so, aliens are behind it.

Begging The Question: Begging the question is what one does in an argument when one assumes what one claims to be proving.
An argument is a form of reasoning whereby one gives a reason or reasons in support of some claim. The reasons are called premises and the claim one tries to support with them is called the conclusion. If one's premises entail one's conclusion, and one's premises are questionable, one is said to beg the question.
The following argument begs the question: We know God exists because we can see the perfect order of His Creation, an order which demonstrates supernatural intelligence in its design.
I have heard all these before, but these are just arguments against the Bible and yet there are alot for it (Listen to R.C. Sproul sometime), but you make an interesting point of a lot of people are unhappy and lack love, peace and freedom. Ever heard of sin? yes all people are wound up in it, even saved people.
Originally posted by Bhujanga

The conclusion of this argument is that God exists. The premise assumes a Creator and Designer of the universe exists, i.e., that God exists. In this argument, the arguer should not be granted the assumption that the universe exhibits intelligent design, but should be made to provide support for that claim.
But it is not assumption, it is history. You have the right or not to believe it.
Originally posted by Bhujanga

One more thought:
The majority of ethical theories and arguments in Western philosophy are not based on a belief in God. In fact, most of them have been developed specifically to establish moral values on non-religious grounds. This is not the place to try to explain Aristotle's ethics, or Bentham and Mill's Utilitarianism, or Kantian ethics, etc. I suppose I find it just as difficult to understand why you or anyone needs God to define morals for them.
Because otherwise apart from God, it is base on relative truth
Originally posted by Bhujanga

Would you really not be offended by rape if God said it was ok? Would murder not seem wrong to you if God did not forbid it? Could you live in a world where lying was as valued as telling the truth, even if God permitted lying?

And here you are not understanding what kind of God we are dealing with. If Satan was God then I am sure all these things and more would be acceptable
Originally posted by Bhujanga

You may think you are living according to God's word when you "love your neighbor as yourself" but it is you who has to put an interpretation on those words in a specific human context. It is you who decides how to act in a concrete situation. Such rules, even if they come from God, don't interpret themselves. You have to take full responsibility for how you act. If you want to believe that God inspires believers to interpret the rules "correctly" then you will have to explain why so many people who claim to be inspired by God contradict one another and often seek each other's destruction. In the final analysis, all moral rules are interpreted and applied by humans, which makes them human rules, whatever their origin. Your view makes it sound like we are all children who have to be told right from wrong because we will never grow up and figure it out for ourselves.
Well, you know God has written right and wrong into man's heart but has been corrupted. But how do you expect to read anything if you dont interprete it. It seems to me that even Jesus spoke to many people (including His disciples) in parables because Humans have such a hard time understanding God with the corruption of there hearts and mind. The thing is, once they got closer to Him they started to understand. Meaning, the truth behind God's words in the Bible isnt necessarily clear the first time you may read it, but once you develop that "relationship" things start to get much clearer.

[talisman]

Originally posted by Boost Addict
talisman,

You are the classic example of someone who gets angry when they know they are wrong. Notice 281R has been calm and collected and you have resorted to name calling and personal insults.

This is a clear example of how a Christian treats others vs. how an athiest behaves. Where do you think morals come from? Do you honestly think they are a human creation? Morals, peace, the simple concept of freedom and even the concept of right vs. wrong are all derived from our roots as people of God. Your reactions in this thread only demonstrate how low and debase a conversation can be without approaching it from a standpoint of loving others before yourself.

If you so choose to resort to insulting 281R, then that is a reflection on yourself. 281R's reaction is a demonstration on what it means to live the free life of a Christian.

Flame away if you wish...I won't return those kind of responses, I'm just a little discouraged that you can't debate in a civil and respectful manner. \



You have no basis in this arguement as you have not participated in pervious threads where both 281 and I were involved. He throws around outright Rush Limbaugh disinformation like he was Hitler handing out pamplets about the Jews fucking everyone over. Since you havent an idea of what you are talking about, you are hereby relieved of participating in said previous dicussion. Oh yeah, and Fuck you.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by talisman
\



You have no basis in this arguement as you have not participated in pervious threads where both 281 and I were involved. He throws around outright Rush Limbaugh disinformation like he was Hitler handing out pamplets about the Jews fucking everyone over. Since you havent an idea of what you are talking about, you are hereby relieved of participating in said previous dicussion. Oh yeah, and Fuck you.
"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

[talisman]

Originally posted by 281R
"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.



"Our fathers were our models for God, if our fathers left, what does that tell you about God? Fuck salvation, fuck redemption, we are Gods unwanted children, so be it. We dont NEED him."

[CobraChic]

I don't care what anyone thinks. Im surprised he would say that after the big chaos about taking that word out of the schools and such..

But YES I think its GREAT he would say that!
The Pledge of allegiance says One Nation Under God..
So I don't see room for debate on whether or not he should have said that.

[talisman]

Originally posted by CobraChic
I don't care what anyone thinks. Im surprised he would say that after the big chaos about taking that word out of the schools and such..

But YES I think its GREAT he would say that!
The Pledge of allegiance says One Nation Under God..
So I don't see room for debate on whether or not he should have said that.


You really dont want to reopen THAT can of worms. ;)

[TT_Vert]

Originally posted by NoSlix
Tony, don't forget CS Lewis too. Set out to disprove the notion of God in the 1920s and ended up one of the greatest Christian writers also.

Shane, why is it that you have time to repliy to posts here yet not on emailed regarding the status of the parts I paid you for on the 11th of March? Please let me know as I paid for this electric water pump on the 11th of march via paypal and have no more responses and no parts as of yet from you. The tracking # you gave me hasnt moved somewhat like a label was printed but the box never dropped off at UPS.
http://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?tracknums_displayed=1&TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&HTMLVersion=4.0&track=Track&InquiryNumber1=1Z05Y57A0395005816

Dave

[DaameAmour]

Originally posted by sbaxter
As long as he has the best interest for America in mind, that's all that really matters. Of course, the fact that he will rid us of a few arabs is a good thing also. May God* bless America!

* God may or may not be referring to the religious entity.

:p

Thats the way I think people should take the word God. Everyone (well most everyone damn them atheists) believes in some sort of a god or higher power. Let George W. continue to say "God Bless America" if that's what he firmly believes in and let those who appose that statement pull their heads outta their asses long enough to notice that if you don't believe in his God maybe he was referring to yours or your many (yes there are some people who have many). I too am considered a lost sheep seeing as I pulled away from the Catholic church but just because I don't agree with some of their beliefs doesn't mean I don't believe in God. And seeing as I'm not a God nor is anyone else in this country (try telling that to Bill Gates) I don't think anyone has the right to get offensive or say that our president can't ask his God to continue blessing a country he's in charge of.
Nikki
(PS I haven't gotten to page 2 yet lol)

[DaameAmour]

Originally posted by 281R
Christians and Jews have the same problem with Muslims

I consider myself a Christian and the only problem I have with Muslims is that some of them (not all seeing as there are always more liberal forms of a religion no matter what it may be) supress women's rights. In fact any religion that does is far out of date, now seeing as it's their belief system I can't say its wrong, but in my opinion its wrong. There are some things in the Muslim belief system that are close to the Catholic religion (although not on the same scale). During Lent we're supposed to starve ourselves (fasting) on Wednesdays and not eat meat on Fridays. During the entire period of Ramadan Muslim people don't eat during the daylight hours (fasting) and they don't eat pork as a common everyday thing. And for that matter its not the Muslim belief system we are fighting against in this war, its the fact that Saddam should not have the right to twist that belief system (or any beliefe system) and be in power anymore. So its not a religious war and I wish people would stop making it into one. Saddam is a twisted and sick man and needs to be stopped, I wish people could see that. IMO he's worse than Hitler because at least Hitler had a divine race in mind, Saddam doesn't care who he's killing.
Nikki
(I edited to bold something not to change what I said)