The history & coincidences of 9/11 and throughout history

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Some real interesting facts in this. If you make it through the 9/11 section check out the pre 9/11 oddities and coincidences.http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html

[talisman]

Got any websites we don't need a tinfoil hat for? Most of that garbage isn't even remotely "coincidence" or another little word I like to call "relevent." The most obvious display is the fact that the word "alleged" is used to refer to the terrorists approximatly 437 times in the first 3 paragraphs.

[sc281_99-0135]

Talisman. Which of these two would you prefer?


He who blindly questions all government.

OR

He who blindly follows all government


He may be a little (okay, alot) tinfoil-hattish, but would you rather have a Gpamp or a Zara instead?

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Got any websites we don't need a tinfoil hat for? Most of that garbage isn't even remotely "coincidence" or another little word I like to call "relevent." The most obvious display is the fact that the word "alleged" is used to refer to the terrorists approximatly 437 times in the first 3 paragraphs.

They are saying alleged because they have a different opinion of who carried out the attacks. So in their opinion "alleged" would be correct.

[talisman]

I'd rather people be somewhere in the middle ground, and recognize that at some point reality has has to figure in to the arguement of these elaborate conspiracy theories. I trust our government as much as Jefferson trusted King George, but lets be realistic.

[AL P]

They are saying alleged because they have a different opinion of who carried out the attacks. So in their opinion "alleged" would be correct.

Oh let me guess, this was a "false flag" operation intended to justify the US attacking Iraq to steal oil? That is my favorite. Were there "bombs" planted in the buildings?

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

I'd rather people be somewhere in the middle ground, and recognize that at some point reality has has to figure in to the arguement of these elaborate conspiracy theories. I trust our government as much as Jefferson trusted King George, but lets be realistic.

If you say it's not even possible, you're the one not being realistic. Our government can and does control pretty much everything. They do what they want, to whomever they want, whenever they want, and don't have to answer to anyone.

[talisman]

If you say it's not even possible, you're the one not being realistic. Our government can and does control pretty much everything. They do what they want, to whomever they want, whenever they want, and don't have to answer to anyone.




Okay, buddy.

[mightyp]

I always figured if the government could or would pull off 9/11 then they ,one way or another, would have "found" wmds in iraq.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Oh let me guess, this was a "false flag" operation intended to justify the US attacking Iraq to steal oil? That is my favorite. Were there "bombs" planted in the buildings?

Who knows what was in the buildings? It's come out now that thermite was found in the buildings rubble though. In case you didn't here about that it's a high grade military explosive. I bet you didn't here about it though, because the news was saturated with swine flu that week and that testimony and discovery by 9 scientists was just swept under the rug. Here's one of the nine telling you about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o If there are Firefighters, survivors, and other people claiming there were bombs in the buildings they heard explode we definitely shouldn't believe them they were only at the scene of the crime, why should we take their accounts of what happened as a possibility? I understand it's a hard thing to even imagine, but the facts are there.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Here's a movie made by the families of victims of 9/11. You can't claim conspiracy tin foil hat on this one. If you can watch this movie and tell me the governments version of 9/11 is exactly what happened and something isn't fishy I'll never post another thread in this forum again. Fair enough?http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3979568779414136481

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

I don't post this stuff to get a rise out of people or to stir shit up. I believe what I say to be the truth, and until you get an inkling of the mindset of these people in control it's normal to call someone like me a "nut" when they're saying something of the magnitude of what I'm insinuating. I can live with being called crazy. I can't live with knowing what we've been fed to be truth is actually lies and still remaining silent.

[Denny]

September 11, 1989
The Berlin Wall came down and the Albanians in Yugoslavia (now Kosovo) staged a massive protest to separate as well. Both issues were not even related.

Oh wait... this isn't a REAL History lesson. :rolleyes:

[Denny]

I always figured if the government could or would pull off 9/11 then they ,one way or another, would have "found" wmds in iraq.

We did. I say we as in "I was there" kinda "we." Not as in I heard they had or the media reports they didn't have "we." A hands-on experience will trump even our Commander in Chief's report because he was just as wrong as Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeldt. The only lies I see from those fuckers are the ones that are saying nothing was found.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

September 11, 1989
The Berlin Wall came down and the Albanians in Yugoslavia (now Kosovo) staged a massive protest to separate as well. Both issues were not even related.

Oh wait... this isn't a REAL History lesson. :rolleyes:
The numbers linking coinciding dates on that link is a stretch I'll admit, and yes those incidents have nothing to do with each other besides falling on the same days. I think the creator of the page was just showing strange chance happenings or whatever.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

We did. I say we as in "I was there" kinda "we." Not as in I heard they had or the media reports they didn't have "we." A hands-on experience will trump even our Commander in Chief's report because he was just as wrong as Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeldt. The only lies I see from those fuckers are the ones that are saying nothing was found.

You know more than I do about the wmd's and I can't say anything about that because I don't know, but I can say the version of 9/11 Americans have been fed is bullshit IMO and many others will agree. I know you served this country for us and I mean no disrespect with my opinions, but I believe we've been had.

[ceyko]

but I believe we've been had.

What ya gonna do about it? You support any groups that feel your way? Do you participate in any events? Have you seen the other side of any recent history in real life? (Bosnia, Hungary, Croatia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Iraq...etc..etc)

I often get the feeling you consipiracy buffs just want to spout off and be scared of the government. You just try to spread your conspiracies with no real backing or hell any plans to do anything about it.

You claim you love America, but all you can do is bitch about her.

Yes, I have some been there/done that shirts. Yes, I actively support military/Veteran organizations who have the same beliefs I do. Finally, for fuck sakes - I'm not going to place 9/11 on the shoulders of Bush or Clinton from a conspiracy point of view. Maybe they each could've done something to assist in preventing it...etc. However, I don't believe that there was some black ops planned out to make it happen.

Do you realize how hard that would be to keep quiet? Lots of folks involved in some shit like that. Do you realize that people who can pull that shit off are probably patriotic as can be? Yes, it is possible but highly unlikely.

If it is true, I'll be the first in line to stone the fuckers responsible. I think the true blame is with the fucking rag heads with no sense or balls.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

What ya gonna do about it? You support any groups that feel your way? Do you participate in any events? Have you seen the other side of any recent history in real life? (Bosnia, Hungary, Croatia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Iraq...etc..etc)

I often get the feeling you conspiracy buffs just want to spout off and be scared of the government. You just try to spread your conspiracies with no real backing or hell any plans to do anything about it.

You claim you love America, but all you can do is bitch about her.

Yes, I have some been there/done that shirts. Yes, I actively support military/Veteran organizations who have the same beliefs I do. Finally, for fuck sakes - I'm not going to place 9/11 on the shoulders of Bush or Clinton from a conspiracy point of view. Maybe they each could've done something to assist in preventing it...etc. However, I don't believe that there was some black ops planned out to make it happen.

Do you realize how hard that would be to keep quiet? Lots of folks involved in some shit like that. Do you realize that people who can pull that shit off are probably patriotic as can be? Yes, it is possible but highly unlikely.

If it is true, I'll be the first in line to stone the fuckers responsible. I think the true blame is with the fucking rag heads with no sense or balls.

I'm going to tell everyone I know about it that's what I'm doing about it. Yes I've participated in events. No I haven't seen the other side of the world except for what the news has shown/told and I know better then to believe them. The evidence is overwhelming about prior knowledge. I'm not saying Bush flew the plane into the building himself, but he's been caught lying, he's linked to the bin ladens, he's linked to the Saudi oil kings, he hand picked 911 commish people, and it goes on, and on, and on. Like I said in post #11 watch that video it's made by victims families members and has zero "conspiracy people" who made it, just grieving victims getting the run around from our government. Here's a few things the news never talks about maybe you heard of maybe you haven't.
1. The owner of the twin towers (Larry Silverstein) purchased a insurance policy 60 days before 9/11 with specific terrorist clauses in the policy. He was the lowest bidder on the purchase of the building, now if you're a businessman you don't sell anything to the lowest bidder without an ulterior motive.
2. For the first time in history THREE steel structure buildings fell from "fire" one wasn't even struck by a plane. The two towers were built to withstand a plane strike btw.
3. The bbc in two separate countries reported WTC #7 had fallen 20 minutes before it actually did.
4. Mohamed Atta "the ringleader" who perished in the plane crash, who's remains were never found, apparently had a magical passport that escaped a burning plane, a burning building, discovered in the rubble and ended up in the authorities hands within 48 hours.
5. George Bush Jr claimed he saw the first plane hit the building on a TV showing the news outside of the classroom he was waiting to go into on 9/11. The problem with this is no one saw the first plane hitting the building on 9/11 because the news didn't show it until the next day, but there's video of him claiming this outright lie.

Now there's 5 things for you and I can go on all damn day. Seriously watch that video there's a lot of good info in it.

[67camino]

Who's George Bush Jr?:confused2:

[Denny]

I'm going to tell everyone I know about it that's what I'm doing about it. Yes I've participated in events. No I haven't seen the other side of the world except for what the news has shown/told and I know better then to believe them. The evidence is overwhelming about prior knowledge. I'm not saying Bush flew the plane into the building himself, but he's been caught lying, he's linked to the bin ladens, he's linked to the Saudi oil kings, he hand picked 911 commish people, and it goes on, and on, and on. Like I said in post #11 watch that video it's made by victims families members and has zero "conspiracy people" who made it, just grieving victims getting the run around from our government. Here's a few things the news never talks about maybe you heard of maybe you haven't.
1. The owner of the twin towers (Larry Silverstein) purchased a insurance policy 60 days before 9/11 with specific terrorist clauses in the policy. He was the lowest bidder on the purchase of the building, now if you're a businessman you don't sell anything to the lowest bidder without an ulterior motive. Well, I also have more knowledge in to that as well. Silverstein was the ONLY bidder with 100% funding in hand. The WTC was bombed in 1993, so it was a high-risk to insurance companies and no one would insure the towers WITHOUT the "terrorist clause."
2. For the first time in history THREE steel structure buildings fell from "fire" one wasn't even struck by a plane. The two towers were built to withstand a plane strike btw.The special heat resistant coating that the buildings' metal frames were lined with were scraped off at the areas of impact from the planes, thus beginning the melting of the metal. It was designed to withstand the heat, not the impact and heat combined and nowhere was it intended for a plane to strike it and withstand the fire, just the fire alone.
3. The bbc in two separate countries reported WTC #7 had fallen 20 minutes before it actually did.That's because they suck.
4. Mohamed Atta "the ringleader" who perished in the plane crash, who's remains were never found, apparently had a magical passport that escaped a burning plane, a burning building, discovered in the rubble and ended up in the authorities hands within 48 hours.SEVERAL bodies were never recovered, so what?
5. George Bush Jr claimed he saw the first plane hit the building on a TV showing the news outside of the classroom he was waiting to go into on 9/11. The problem with this is no one saw the first plane hitting the building on 9/11 because the news didn't show it until the next day, but there's video of him claiming this outright lie.This has been beaten down over and over. By the time Bush saw the news, it was showing the 2nd plane hitting over and over. One of his assistants told him that it was the first plane. No biggie.

Now there's 5 things for you and I can go on all damn day. Seriously watch that video there's a lot of good info in it.

I have personally done hours and hours of mind-numbing research of terroristic activity since 2001. At first, it wasn't for this job (although it's funny where I wound up); it was more of an obsession. I'm not the world's most studious person, nor am I the greatest investigator, but I've conducted investigations on accidents and incidents for roughly 12 years. There is nothing I've found that leads me to believe that there was anything "inside" about the 9/11 attacks. Most of the people on here will tell you that I won't hesitate to call bullshit when bullshit is being slung. I can honestly say that I can't call bullshit here.

Now don't get me wrong... there were several contributing factors leading up to 9/11 where the ball was dropped, but to say that it was deliberate or knowing the consequences of what was done or left undone is just ridiculous.

[AL P]

Who knows what was in the buildings? It's come out now that thermite was found in the buildings rubble though. In case you didn't here about that it's a high grade military explosive. I bet you didn't here about it though, because the news was saturated with swine flu that week and that testimony and discovery by 9 scientists was just swept under the rug. Here's one of the nine telling you about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o If there are Firefighters, survivors, and other people claiming there were bombs in the buildings they heard explode we definitely shouldn't believe them they were only at the scene of the crime, why should we take their accounts of what happened as a possibility? I understand it's a hard thing to even imagine, but the facts are there.


So you propose that there was a massive conspiracy to wire the buildings with explosives. The management company including management, security and building engineers just "looked the other way" while demolition teams went in and wired in thousands of pounds of explosives?

[Denny]

So you propose that there was a massive conspiracy to wire the buildings with explosives. The management company including management, security and building engineers just "looked the other way" while demolition teams went in and wired in thousands of pounds of explosives?

Well, since you put it that way...

[AL P]

1. The owner of the twin towers (Larry Silverstein) purchased a insurance policy 60 days before 9/11 with specific terrorist clauses in the policy. He was the lowest bidder on the purchase of the building, now if you're a businessman you don't sell anything to the lowest bidder without an ulterior motive.

This is bullshit. This would be one of the biggest real estate transactions in the world. Often in big real estate transactions you qualify the bidders' ability to pay. Meaning, often times the bidders don't have the money to pay and plan to raise the money once they have the building under contract. If they can't raise the money they can't close, so the seller eats a lot of time and legal costs for a deal that the buyer could never perform on. The highest bidder is not always the best buyer.

Ignorance of things like this is what drives this conspiracy bullshit.

Not only that but this was a horrible investment for Silverstein. He ended up having to sue the insurance company. He lost his ass. I guess that was part of the conspiracy too, to lose his ass to "make it all look legit". Really...this shit is hilarious, you've got guys who live in trailer parks making theories about some of the largest real estate deals ever done. Hilarious. And if you don't entertain these absurd fucking ideas then you "don't have an open mind". There is a difference between "having an open mind" and being just plain fucking stupid.

[AL P]

Well, since you put it that way...

Wait, wait, wait. It would be a massive conspiracy involving HUNDREDS of people. But no really, it is totally possible. It has to be, that's because some of the firemen said "it sounded like a bomb went off"....that means it WAS a bomb!

I feel like I am in the third grade reading this thread, it is a monument to the stupidity of the average person. It's the Mount Rushmore of stupidity.

[talisman]

This is bullshit. This would be one of the biggest real estate transactions in the world. Often in big real estate transactions you qualify the bidders' ability to pay. Meaning, often times the bidders don't have the money to pay and plan to raise the money once they have the building under contract. If they can't raise the money they can't close, so the seller eats a lot of time and legal costs for a deal that the buyer could never perform on. The highest bidder is not always the best buyer.

Ignorance of things like this is what drives this conspiracy bullshit.

Not only that but this was a horrible investment for Silverstein. He ended up having to sue the insurance company. He lost his ass. I guess that was part of the conspiracy too, to lose his ass to "make it all look legit". Really...this shit is hilarious, you've got guys who live in trailer parks making theories about some of the largest real estate deals ever done. Hilarious. And if you don't entertain these absurd fucking ideas then you "don't have an open mind". There is a difference between "having an open mind" and being just plain fucking stupid.




Get outta here with all your smarty art talk, collegeboy.

[46Tbird]

I feel like I am in the third grade reading this thread, it is a monument to the stupidity of the average person. It's the Mount Rushmore of stupidity.
http://relationary.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/stupidity.jpg

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/453425/80554081.jpg

[slow06]

You guys seem to have good explanations for some seemingly weird stuff, so let me toss one out:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5415578059017835301&ei=ZedUSpuiIIzXlQewz6GtDg&q=9%2F11+pentagon+crash+video&hl=en&client=firefox-a

In that video, does it look like a large passenger plane hit the pentagon? I haven't researched this at all, but it always stood out in all of the "conspiracy" videos that popped up.

That is not the original version of that video that I saw, the other one was in a short "conspiracy" film with Marilyn Manson "this is the new shit" playing in the background, if anybody knows what I am talking about...

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

1. The owner of the twin towers (Larry Silverstein) purchased a insurance policy 60 days before 9/11 with specific terrorist clauses in the policy. He was the lowest bidder on the purchase of the building, now if you're a businessman you don't sell anything to the lowest bidder without an ulterior motive. Well, I also have more knowledge in to that as well. Silverstein was the ONLY bidder with 100% funding in hand. The WTC was bombed in 1993, so it was a high-risk to insurance companies and no one would insure the towers WITHOUT the "terrorist clause."
2. For the first time in history THREE steel structure buildings fell from "fire" one wasn't even struck by a plane. The two towers were built to withstand a plane strike btw.The special heat resistant coating that the buildings' metal frames were lined with were scraped off at the areas of impact from the planes, thus beginning the melting of the metal. It was designed to withstand the heat, not the impact and heat combined and nowhere was it intended for a plane to strike it and withstand the fire, just the fire alone.
3. The BBC in two separate countries reported WTC #7 had fallen 20 minutes before it actually did.That's because they suck.
4. Mohamed Atta "the ringleader" who perished in the plane crash, who's remains were never found, apparently had a magical passport that escaped a burning plane, a burning building, discovered in the rubble and ended up in the authorities hands within 48 hours.SEVERAL bodies were never recovered, so what?
5. George Bush Jr claimed he saw the first plane hit the building on a TV showing the news outside of the classroom he was waiting to go into on 9/11. The problem with this is no one saw the first plane hitting the building on 9/11 because the news didn't show it until the next day, but there's video of him claiming this outright lie.This has been beaten down over and over. By the time Bush saw the news, it was showing the 2nd plane hitting over and over. One of his assistants told him that it was the first plane. No biggie.

Your response for #1 I didn't know the insurance company made you have a terror clause, and haven't heard of him being the only one with available funding.

Your response for #2 we'll just have to agree to disagree. Scientists say otherwise and I'm going to have to believe them.
Your response for #3 isn't an answer.
Your response for #4 I think you misunderstood what I'm saying. If several bodies weren't discovered then how did a passport make it out of a burned to death persons pocket, a burning plane, and a burning building, and miraculously land in the hands of authorities? Last time I heard passports weren't made to withstand fire that gets so hot it supposedly melts buildings. It just so happened that this person was the ringleader. I'm sorry that's complete bullshit.
Your response to #5 Is 100% incorrect. He said before he went into the classroom he saw the first plane hit on TV. He was told about the second plane while he was sitting in the classroom. I can post the video for you of Bush saying it himself?

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

So you propose that there was a massive conspiracy to wire the buildings with explosives. The management company including management, security and building engineers just "looked the other way" while demolition teams went in and wired in thousands of pounds of explosives?

I don't know how it happened. I know there was a bush on the board of directors for the security in charge of the buildings, so anything is possible. I don't think we will ever know the truth. Here's a link with some info about the buildings and a lot of people disputing the governments story.http://www.septembereleventh.org/documents/rodgwtcpdf.pdf

[bcoop]

1. The owner of the twin towers (Larry Silverstein) purchased a insurance policy 60 days before 9/11 with specific terrorist clauses in the policy. He was the lowest bidder on the purchase of the building, now if you're a businessman you don't sell anything to the lowest bidder without an ulterior motive. Well, I also have more knowledge in to that as well. Silverstein was the ONLY bidder with 100% funding in hand. The WTC was bombed in 1993, so it was a high-risk to insurance companies and no one would insure the towers WITHOUT the "terrorist clause."
2. For the first time in history THREE steel structure buildings fell from "fire" one wasn't even struck by a plane. The two towers were built to withstand a plane strike btw.The special heat resistant coating that the buildings' metal frames were lined with were scraped off at the areas of impact from the planes, thus beginning the melting of the metal. It was designed to withstand the heat, not the impact and heat combined and nowhere was it intended for a plane to strike it and withstand the fire, just the fire alone.
3. The BBC in two separate countries reported WTC #7 had fallen 20 minutes before it actually did.That's because they suck.
4. Mohamed Atta "the ringleader" who perished in the plane crash, who's remains were never found, apparently had a magical passport that escaped a burning plane, a burning building, discovered in the rubble and ended up in the authorities hands within 48 hours.SEVERAL bodies were never recovered, so what?
5. George Bush Jr claimed he saw the first plane hit the building on a TV showing the news outside of the classroom he was waiting to go into on 9/11. The problem with this is no one saw the first plane hitting the building on 9/11 because the news didn't show it until the next day, but there's video of him claiming this outright lie.This has been beaten down over and over. By the time Bush saw the news, it was showing the 2nd plane hitting over and over. One of his assistants told him that it was the first plane. No biggie.

Your response for #1 I didn't know the insurance company made you have a terror clause, and haven't heard of him being the only one with available funding.

Your response for #2 we'll just have to agree to disagree. Scientists say otherwise and I'm going to have to believe them.
Your response for #3 isn't an answer.
Your response for #4 I think you misunderstood what I'm saying. If several bodies weren't discovered then how did a passport make it out of a burned to death persons pocket, a burning plane, and a burning building, and miraculously land in the hands of authorities? Last time I heard passports weren't made to withstand fire that gets so hot it supposedly melts buildings. It just so happened that this person was the ringleader. I'm sorry that's complete bullshit.
Your response to #5 Is 100% incorrect. He said before he went into the classroom he saw the first plane hit on TV. He was told about the second plane while he was sitting in the classroom. I can post the video for you of Bush saying it himself?



Jesus tap dancing Christ. You and Blakeski should get together about the FEMA concentration camps. They are coming for you.


Holy fuck, I need to find out where you get your weed from.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Al P did you see the news today? They said there was a test of security at federal buildings 10 attempts to bring in bomb making explosive device materials etc. 10 out of 10 attempts were successful and the materials made it past security. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/07/federal.buildings.security/index.html So I don't think you can claim it's impossible that there were explosives in the buildings on 9/11. It's definitely possible.

[slvr01]

I don't usually get involved in these types of discussions because the are never endning. I didn't bother with the link either I've looked at a few in the past and they really are pretty out there.
Do I think the government told us everything they know about what happened that day? My guess is probably not. Do I think they had anything to do with it?(other than not doing enough to stop it that is) That would be a big NO. People are like cattle if they knew every little detail it would cause panic and fear. So in short I don't believe we were told everything and I'm okay with that. I don't think we weren't told certian things because of government involvement. Maybe a screw up but not involvement.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Here's Larry Silverstein saying "we decided to pull it" referring to building 7. "Pull it" what does that mean? Well here it is coming out of his mouth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Al P where can you show me something that says larry silverstein lost his ass? He was awarded 4.5 billion dollars I wouldn't call that losing your ass. He's also currently suing the airlines for 2.8 billion.

[fast83]

the bbc reporter was live reporting that building 7 had fallen,only to see in the background that building 7 was still standing.

a fucking idiot could tell that all 3 buildings came down demolition style.


those buildings where dropped on purpose,and not just by planes,fire,or by accident.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

the bbc reporter was live reporting that building 7 had fallen,only to see in the background that building 7 was still standing.

a fucking idiot could tell that all 3 buildings came down demolition style.


those buildings where dropped on purpose,and not just by planes,fire,or by accident.

:firedevil:

[Zarathustra]

this thread is full of fail.

There's only one way to look at the truth, and one way to deny it.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

this thread is full of fail.

You're right our government failed us on every level completely.

[slow06]

this thread is full of fail.

There's only one way to look at the truth, and one way to deny it.

Zara which side do you agree with?

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Here's one link with bush talking about seeing the plane hit the first building. Start the video at 8:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2CVAnRByfg I have a couple others I'll dig up also.

[46Tbird]

You REALLY believe that "the government" orchestrated four hijacks, three airliners crashing into buildings, four building demolitions, and 3000 American deaths in under two hours? Those fuckers can't even get you out of the DMV within two hours, how the hell would they do that?

If the buildings were brought down by explosives, how come no evidence of explosives was found?

How did they convince a group of young Muslim men to do this?

Ever heard of Occam's Razor? If not, look it up.

I conclude that the simplest, most obvious scenerio is that a bunch of terrorists that hate America planned to hijack four planes and fly them into buildings as a demonstration of their Jihad.

[sc281_99-0135]

HAHAHAHHAHA which mod changed his screen name??

[AL P]

I don't know how it happened. I know there was a bush on the board of directors for the security in charge of the buildings, so anything is possible. I don't think we will ever know the truth. Here's a link with some info about the buildings and a lot of people disputing the governments story.http://www.septembereleventh.org/documents/rodgwtcpdf.pdf

No, anything isn't possible. You'd have to ask Joe Blow management company employee that makes $10 an hour, with absolutely nothing to gain to sit back and watch some clowns wire the building for explosives. Then on top of that you'd have to ask them to never speak of it again. And these people aren't exactly Rhodes scholars.

That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You can't get 10 people to keep a secret much less a hundred. Really, the idea is just beyond absurd.

[AL P]

this thread is full of fail.

There's only one way to look at the truth, and one way to deny it.

Maybe you should post another link to that site where the engineering professor claimed it was destroyed by an orbital X-ray laser.

I'm sorry but I don't really trust your bullshit detection skills on this subject.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

You REALLY believe that "the government" orchestrated four hijacks, three airliner crashes, four building demolitions, and 3000 American deaths in under two hours? Those fuckers can't even get you out of the DMV within two hours, how the hell would they do that?
Yes

If the buildings were brought down by explosives, how come no evidence of explosives was found?
There was thermite found look it up.
How did they convince a group of young Muslim men to do this?
There's no proof that Muslims flew it into the building unless you take the news story as truth which I don't. 5 of the 19 supposed hijackers were victims of identity theft. Imagine that. One of them was even dead before 9/11 and another is still alive.
Ever heard of Occam's Razor? If not, look it up.
will do
I conclude that the simplest, most obvious scenario is that a bunch of terrorists that hate America planned to hijack four planes and fly them into buildings as a demonstration of their Jihad.
You're entitled to your opinion I just don't agree.

[fast83]

somebody hasn't done they're homework on this issue yet.

[AL P]

Al P did you see the news today? They said there was a test of security at federal buildings 10 attempts to bring in bomb making explosive device materials etc. 10 out of 10 attempts were successful and the materials made it past security. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/07/federal.buildings.security/index.html So I don't think you can claim it's impossible that there were explosives in the buildings on 9/11. It's definitely possible.

I really hate to keep pointing out the obvious to you.

There is a difference between walking in a door with a stick of dynamite and actually wiring a huge skyscraper for demolition. The latter scenario takes many man hours of time and a shitload of explosives.

[AL P]

Al P where can you show me something that says larry silverstein lost his ass? He was awarded 4.5 billion dollars I wouldn't call that losing your ass. He's also currently suing the airlines for 2.8 billion.

Really? And how much did this leasehold cost? You did know that the building are subject to a ground lease from the port authority right? How much has he paid for VACANT land since 9/11/01? How much will it cost to build the new buildings? What were his costs to litigate? Did you see the newstory where he is asking for state/federal help for the project?

I assume you know all about this deal, tell us all how it works.

[fast83]

i believe wtc 1 and 2 where both shut completely down 2 weeks before the attack.

homework,homework.

go at it with an open mind,you may be amazed at what you find.

[helosailor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite
Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrotechnic_composition) of a metal powder and a metal oxide, which produces an aluminothermic reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminothermic_reaction) known as a thermite reaction. It is not explosive, but can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small area for a short period of time.

There was wayyyy more than enough of the elements necessary to cause a detection present in the buildings without someone having to deliberately put it there. Iron and aluminum are the two most common elements used and those are the two most common materials used in large building construction.

http://rlv.zcache.com/thats_all_i_have_to_say_about_that_forrest_mousepa d-p144987244314880154td22_210.jpg

[46Tbird]

You're entitled to your opinion I just don't agree.

Hmmm, well I don't exactly consider my view on the subject to be an "opinion" because it is all fairly clear what happened. And there is no evidence of a cohesive, centrally organized conspiracy. Every item you point to as "evidence" is easily dismissed as a misspeaking or has a simple, logical reason. Did you know that airplanes are made from aluminum, and that steel supports have rust on them? Introduce high heat and oxygen, and you generate thermite. Tah-dah!

You too are entitled to an opinion, but it is my duty to make sure you don't go around spouting crackpot ideas. And on a long enough timeline, it won't matter. The history books are written. Who was the real Jack the Ripper? We'll never know. And it doesn't matter anymore...

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

"it's all fairly clear what happened" Not even fucking close.

[46Tbird]

The evidence you have found would not support a criminal prosecution. If it could have, it already would have.

All you have is piecemeal, circumstantial evidence with no motive, insufficient proof of means, and no physical evidence linking a perpetrator to a crime.

Keep blowing your crackpot whistle, we're all listening...

[fast83]

O LOOK! theres one of the hijackers wallet laying on the sidewalk below!

now we know who did this....


get fucking real people.america was duped by its own goverment and the media supported/perpitrated the dupping.

thats it.

[AL P]

O LOOK! theres one of the hijackers wallet laying on the sidewalk below!

now we know who did this....


get fucking real people.america was duped by its own goverment and the media supported/perpitrated the dupping.

thats it.

And what was the motive again?

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

All the prior knowledge, not being able to scramble fighter jets, 3 steel structures for the first time in history falling due to fire, Bush linked to Bin laden, Osama the magician never caught, it just doesn't stop. Our government would never even think about hurting it's own people to start a war, or would they? Yes they would, here's the proof. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/index.html

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

And what was the motive again?

Which one? Oil, Money, War, Rothchild central bank, Scare people into giving up rights for freedom. How many you want?

[AL P]

All the prior knowledge, not being able to scramble fighter jets, 3 steel structures for the first time in history falling due to fire, Bush linked to Bin laden, Osama the magician never caught, it just doesn't stop. Our government would never even think about hurting it's own people to start a war, or would they. Yes they would, here's the proof. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/index.html

Let me get this right, they planned to use this attack to start a war? And they made the majority of the attackers appear to come from Saudi Arabia which happens to be our biggest ally in the middle east after Israel.

1+1=3 I guess.

Respond to my questions about the Silverstein deal.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Let me get this right, they planned to use this attack to start a war? And they made the majority of the attackers appear to come from Saudi Arabia which happens to be our biggest ally in the middle east after Israel.

1+1=3 I guess
Actually I think
Respond to my questions about the Silverstein deal.

Which question?

[AL P]

Which one? Oil, Money, War, Scare people into giving up rights for freedom. How many you want?

How about a valid one? We didn't get any of those things you named.

Oil? Did we get any oil?

Money? How much has the Iraq war cost?

War? You mean justification for a war? See my prior comment

Scare people? Name a single right that you have given up since 9/11. What you can't get on a plane with a big bottle of shampoo...OH NOES!!!

I'll agree that there is an erosion of freedom in this country but it has nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

[46Tbird]

All the prior knowledge,
Terrorist threats are received daily. Which ones should they act on?
not being able to scramble fighter jets,
How much time do you think it takes to determine that you have multiple simultaneous hijackings with intent to fly into buildings? How long do you think it would take to get military approval to FIRE on a passenger airliner in the pre-9/11 world? F-15s were scrambled in under an hour after the first aircraft was SUSPECTED hijacked. What kind of timeline would you like to have seen?
3 steel structures for the first time in history falling due to fire,
Don't blame me for your lack of understanding regarding the basic physical properties of steel. It gets hot, it bends. It bends, it loses structural integrity. It loses structural integrity, it collapses under the weight of the 15 intact stories on top of it. The weight of the collapsing top half of the building overcomes the structure of the lower levels. Building fall down. I can't imagine that you don't understand this. You think "thermite" explosions and other BS did it? You think this was orchestrated in full visibility of the media, in front of billions of people watching? You think they located the explosives perfectly to align with 500mph aircraft impacts? REALLY?
Bush linked to Bin laden,
So if your former employer has ever done business with a company that had a vendor that had family engaged in terrorism, does that "link" you to terrorism?
Osama the magician never caught, it just doesn't stop.
This one I agree with you on. We should have his ASS by now.
Our government would never even think about hurting it's own people to start a war, or would they. Yes they would, here's the proof. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/index.html
What does some nasty planning done during the JFK administration and at the height of the cold war have to do with 9/11? :confused: NOTHING

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Terrorist threats are received daily. Which ones should they act on?How about the one's that say we might have a problem coming?http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/16/162004.shtml

How much time do you think it takes to determine that you have multiple simultaneous hijackings with intent to fly into buildings? How long do you think it would take to get military approval to FIRE on a passenger airliner in the pre-9/11 world? F-15s were scrambled in under an hour after the first aircraft was SUSPECTED hijacked. What kind of time line would you like to have seen?
15 minutes is the standard. We weren't even close by a long shot.

Don't blame me for your lack of understanding regarding the basic physical properties of steel. It gets hot, it bends. It bends, it loses structural integrity. It loses structural integrity, it collapses under the weight of the 15 intact stories on top of it. The weight of the collapsing top half of the building overcomes the structure of the lower levels. Building fall down. I can't imagine that you don't understand this. You think "thermite" explosions and other BS did it? You think this was orchestrated in full visibility of the media, in front of billions of people watching? You think they located the explosives perfectly to align with 500mph aircraft impacts? REALLY? Yep all buildings that collapse from fire fall perfectly straight down just like a demolition. I've seen it happen 3 times on TV it must be true and must have been the fire.

So if your former employer has ever done business with a company that had a vendor that had family engaged in terrorism, does that "link" you to terrorism?
Yes it does and you should be investigated. Any link to terrorists should be investigated especially on the heels of an incident of this magnitude.
This one I agree with you on. We should have his ASS by now.
Yep.

What does some nasty planning done during the JFK administration and at the height of the cold war have to do with 9/11? :confused: NOTHING

It shows they were planning on killing innocent Americans to start a war? You don't see a problem with that?

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

How about a valid one? We didn't get any of those things you named.
They are all valid. We may not have got them but someone who wanted this war did.
Oil? Did we get any oil?
Who knows? We don't know all the company's our officials are linked too so it's hard to say. The Rothschild's got there bank though, which is probably a main factor of that war.

Money? How much has the Iraq war cost?
Money is just a piece of paper and a debt number? Has no significance at all they'll just print more. What a better way to funnel money to other things/people through war because no one will question them when they're defending our freedom.

War? You mean justification for a war? See my prior comment

Scare people? Name a single right that you have given up since 9/11. What you can't get on a plane with a big bottle of shampoo...OH NOES!!!
Patriot act. You're a terrorist is all they have to say and you have NO RIGHTS.

I'll agree that there is an erosion of freedom in this country but it has nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

It has everything to do with the 9/11 attacks. We will give up rights now for freedom if we think our lovely government is doing it for our safety.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Checking out for the evening gentlemen. See you tomorrow.

[Zarathustra]

Zara which side do you agree with?

The side that's asking questions, demanding answers, and trying to uncover more of the truth about what happened not only that day, but the days leading up to it as well. There are too many questions that should be asked, and demanding answers to these questions is something wreaks of patriotism to me. Sitting back and swallowing the bullshit, taking the official story for the one and only truth is what they want us to do. For some reason people vehemently defend the official story like it's scripture now, and that's exactly what they want from us, blind allegiance.

I refuse.

[Skidonenko]

The real question is who dropped a mud monkey in the urinal......

[46Tbird]

How about the one's that say we might have a problem coming?http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/162004.shtml
Don't they all?
15 minutes is the standard. We weren't even close by a long shot. Standard for what? Standard when an enemy aircraft is detected heading for American territory? We're talking multiple bogeys, vague allegations of hijacking, and intercepting airliners with fighter jets. All pre-9/11. Hindsight sure is sharp, huh?
Yep all buildings that collapse from fire fall perfectly straight down just like a demolition. I've seen it happen 3 times on TV it must be true and must have been the fire.They didn't collapse from fire, two collapsed from structure weakened BY fire, the other collapsed when a collapsing building fell on it. They didn't fall straight down. The tops of the buildings tilted toward the weakened areas first. When that collapsed, the structure failed from top to bottom as more and more material rushed downward - in a relatively straight, gravitationally induced path. How did you think it would fall? Perfectly intact and tipping over at the base like a domino? You can't be this dumb!
Yes it does and you should be investigated. Any link to terrorists should be investigated especially on the heels of an incident of this magnitude.
That basically means anyone doing business with any company in Saudi Arabia would be labeled a terrorist.
It shows they were planning on killing innocent Americans to start a war? You don't see a problem with that?
If by "THEY" you mean the Kennedy administration, you may have a valid point. If by "THEY" you mean anyone in the past nine administrations, you're losing me...

[89gt-stanger]

PENTAGON- The pentagon was hit with a missile or similar weapon, not a plane. There is no solid evidence to show that a plane that large disappeared into the Pentagon, or thin air as they say.

Twin Towers- There is absolutely no proof that "explosive material" was moved into the Towers, or any buildings of the World Trade Center, unless there was a teleport machine that brought it in.

WMD- THERE WERE "WMD's" THAT WE FOUND.


While Bush took the heat for "not finding WMD's", the US Military smuggled 550 metric tons of yellow cake out of that area. Anyone that says there were no WMD's or material that is used to make it, present in that country is un-educated, as most of the people in this fucking country. No one has a clue about whats going on.

[Zarathustra]

You REALLY believe that "the government" orchestrated four hijacks, three airliners crashing into buildings, four building demolitions, and 3000 American deaths in under two hours?


No. Not "the government". The government, collectively, probably had nothing to do with it. It's not like there was a joint resolution in Congress putting this massive scheme into action, with the 'inside' people taking some sort of secret oath to keep their mouths shut. There were certain, terrifyingly evil people acting under the color of authority who abused their power to the point that either they looked the other way, deliberately (or accidentally) acted maliciously, or even took part in exploiting the media, emergency services, or the citizens of New York. It is obvious that the official story has more holes than Swiss cheese, and all it takes is a little curiosity as a catalyst to start asking good, sound questions surrounding the events that took place on that day that changed the world FOREVER. What they told us is far from the truth, and it only takes an honest look at the facts to realize that.

Asking questions and demanding answers of government is a fundamental aspect of living in a free society, and stifling those who have raised legitimate questions is tyrannical, dogmatic, autocratic, and unpatriotic.

[Zarathustra]

That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You can't get 10 people to keep a secret much less a hundred. Really, the idea is just beyond absurd.

What makes you think they were told what was happening? People are normally too stupid to ask questions... :tounge-in-cheek:

[Zarathustra]

The real question is who dropped a mud monkey in the urinal......

That's what I'm screamin'..

[Zarathustra]

Oh, and, I don't plan on arguing every point to the skin of my teeth--I'm sure all of you know how I feel about this by now. I myself think this is a conversation best and most productively executed over a couple beers and a few shots of Irish whiskey. I just know that it's not a bad thing to ask questions and demand straight forward answers. I also know that ridiculing those that have the courage and strife to ask questions at all is absolutely ridiculous. You guys act like the people in power in this country are and have always been a bunch of upstanding, ethical individuals with moral compasses pointing toward truth and justice.

[Paladin]

LMAO @ drop top's new name and the fact that fast83 and zurethra are chiming in to support him. If we only had gpamp coming in we could complete the cycle of idiocy.

[slow06]

Oh, and, I don't plan on arguing every point to the skin of my teeth--I'm sure all of you know how I feel about this by now. I myself think this is a conversation best and most productively executed over a couple beers and a few shots of Irish whiskey. I just know that it's not a bad thing to ask questions and demand straight forward answers. I also know that ridiculing those that have the courage and strife to ask questions at all is absolutely ridiculous. You guys act like the people in power in this country are and have always been a bunch of upstanding, ethical individuals with moral compasses pointing toward truth and justice.
I agree with you 100%
and I must admit I am a little scared

and I am still asking this...

You guys seem to have good explanations for some seemingly weird stuff, so let me toss one out:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ient=firefox-a
NEW LINK
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xj9_911-pentagon-surveillance-camera

In that video, does it look like a large passenger plane hit the pentagon? I haven't researched this at all, but it always stood out in all of the "conspiracy" videos that popped up.

That is not the original version of that video that I saw, the other one was in a short "conspiracy" film with Marilyn Manson "this is the new shit" playing in the background, if anybody knows what I am talking about...

[sc281_99-0135]

Oh, and, I don't plan on arguing every point to the skin of my teeth--I'm sure all of you know how I feel about this by now. I myself think this is a conversation best and most productively executed over a couple beers and a few shots of Irish whiskey. I just know that it's not a bad thing to ask questions and demand straight forward answers. I also know that ridiculing those that have the courage and strife to ask questions at all is absolutely ridiculous. You guys act like the people in power in this country are and have always been a bunch of upstanding, ethical individuals with moral compasses pointing toward truth and justice.

Damn........I cannot believe I actually agree with you on something.


Who jacked your screename?? :confused2:

[fast83]

idiocy? lol

facts are facts.sure have been alot of fair questions about 911 but the gov. won't step up with answers.only 4 dumb fucking saudis trained in crop dusters to attack us.

bin laden is the master mind but cant be caught,and today america is on level yellow/orange/red.

stay inline with the dumbass followers.dont question anything.you don't need to because YOU ALREADY KNOW IT ALL!

don't ya?

talk about the facts and quit trying to clown.your no good at it.

[Paladin]

idiocy? lol

facts are facts.sure have been alot of fair questions about 911 but the gov. won't step up with answers.only 4 dumb fucking saudis trained in crop dusters to attack us.

bin laden is the master mind but cant be caught,and today america is on level yellow/orange/red.

stay inline with the dumbass followers.dont question anything.you don't need to because YOU ALREADY KNOW IT ALL!

don't ya?

talk about the facts and quit trying to clown.your no good at it.

Yeah, I am gonna find answers from you, right?

[tazz007]

Since there are so many good researchers on here.

Can some one tell me this.

Why was there 2 tons of military grade Thermite found in the rubble? I believe it's called nano thermite?

Just one simple easy question. Surly some one has a rational explanation.

How it could have gotten there is easy. Work was being done on the elevator shafts for two months just before that fatal day.

[bcoop]

Since there are so many good researchers on here.

Can some one tell me this.

Why was there 2 tons of military grade Thermite found in the rubble? I believe it's called nano thermite?

Just one simple easy question. Surly some one has a rational explanation.

How it could have gotten there is easy. Work was being done on the elevator shafts for two months just before that fatal day.

It's already been explained rationally, and logically.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Don't they all?
We have enough people to investigate every terrorist claim, especially since it was way more then one warning
Standard for what? Standard when an enemy aircraft is detected heading for American territory? We're talking multiple bogeys, vague allegations of hijacking, and intercepting airliners with fighter jets. All pre-9/11. Hindsight sure is sharp, huh?
Standard procedure is 15 minutes according to NORAD. But hey they were having terrorist drills that day and couldn't figure out which were the real ones. What another coincidence! At what point do we stop saying oh it's just another coincidence?
They didn't collapse from fire, two collapsed from structure weakened BY fire, the other collapsed when a collapsing building fell on it. They didn't fall straight down. The tops of the buildings tilted toward the weakened areas first. When that collapsed, the structure failed from top to bottom as more and more material rushed downward - in a relatively straight, gravitationally induced path. How did you think it would fall? Perfectly intact and tipping over at the base like a domino? You can't be this dumb!Please show me anything that says a collapsing building fell on any of the buildings? Really you can't be this dumb to think three buildings would fall in the exact same manner as a controlled demolition.

That basically means anyone doing business with any company in Saudi Arabia would be labeled a terrorist. Well if they were linked to a president who was in office during the biggest Attack in American history they should be investigated as a possible terrorist.

If by "THEY" you mean the Kennedy administration, you may have a valid point. If by "THEY" you mean anyone in the past nine administrations, you're losing me...

When I say "they" I mean whoever came up with the idea for(operation north woods) to attack American people to have a reason for war.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

It's already been explained rationally, and logically.

No it hasn't. I don't know of any dfwstang scientists and until I see one in here disputing the conclusions of the 9 dutch scientists I'll believe the pros.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

I agree with you 100%
and I must admit I am a little scared

and I am still asking this...

No one has a answer because that's the only photo the pentagon will release. Real convenient that it's the worst possible camera angle they have. Surely the pentagon has a good surveillance system that has a better shot of whatever the fuck hit it.

[slvr01]

Good god are there really this many stupid fucks out there that believe this load of crap? You guy's should stop bogarting the good stuff and pass it around because you must be high to believe this shit. Here is a site for all of you "open minded people' aka crack pots. I'm sure someone has showed you this before but being the "open minded people" you are you chose to ignore it because it doesn't propagate your theories.
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

[Denny]

idiocy? lol

facts are facts.sure have been alot of fair questions about 911 but the gov. won't step up with answers.only 4 dumb fucking saudis trained in crop dusters to attack us.
bin laden is the master mind but cant be caught,and today america is on level yellow/orange/red.

stay inline with the dumbass followers.dont question anything.you don't need to because YOU ALREADY KNOW IT ALL!

don't ya?

talk about the facts and quit trying to clown.your no good at it.

It's bullshit logic like this that got us into 9/11 in the first place. NEVER underestimate a person or people who would rather see you dead more than anything else in this world.

Zara, I agree with you that questions are good and should be asked. He is just accepting the "conspiracy" answers, though. Every logical answer is shot down by him in the next post.

[Denny]

No one has a answer because that's the only photo the pentagon will release. Real convenient that it's the worst possible camera angle they have. Surely the pentagon has a good surveillance system that has a better shot of whatever the fuck hit it.

Here's your problem. The only evidence you see is what you don't agree with, so the information is bunk.

[Vertnut]

Here's your problem. The only evidence you see is what you don't agree with, so the information is bunk.

Not unlike the "global warming" bullshit that has been debunked by our own EPA report, which is being swept under the rug as we speak.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Here's your problem. The only evidence you see is what you don't agree with, so the information is bunk.

No I don't agree with that.:slomo: The information the government has given us is bunk and that's what I believe. That's all I'm saying. If they have nothing to hide then why are they hiding so much? It's like when you hear someone argue about a law and say "well if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" Well it applies to the the government also in my book. Everyone knows what I think and I'm just going to leave it at that.

[ceyko]

Conspiracies keep some people motivated.

Denny finished off a post on page 1 that pretty much sums it up. Something about maybe being able to do more to stop it, but certainly did not coordinate the attacks.

You conspiracy peeps have fun with this one. I wish ya luck, but you're destined to fail.

[89gt-stanger]

No one has a answer because that's the only photo the pentagon will release. Real convenient that it's the worst possible camera angle they have. Surely the pentagon has a good surveillance system that has a better shot of whatever the fuck hit it.


There was a video that clearly caught what happened to the Pentagon. It was at a gas station nearby, and the video was confiscated by the feds with 5 minutes of the attack.

[tazz007]

It's already been explained rationally, and logically.

Well I messed out on it. Please enlighten me.


Or at least point out explanation that satisfied you. Because I have not seen it yet.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

by Jeffrey Steinberg
July 10, 2009

Much of what you have been told about the events of 9/11 have been a hoax. The truth, which is clearly revealed in newly declassified documents, available through the National Archives, is that two leading presumed U.S. allies--Saudi Arabia and Great Britain--were up to their eyeballs in the attacks on New York City and Washington. The United States was betrayed by leading elements within the Saudi Arabian Royal Family and intelligence services, in league with the British Empire. And top officials of the Bush-Cheney White House, the Justice Department, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) were both aware of, and fully complicit in the coverup of the crime of the century.

The Anglo-Saudi alliance behind the 9/11 atrocity is represented, most graphically, by a 25-year-old secret intelligence arrangement, concealed beneath a lucrative arms-for-oil barter deal called ``al-Yamamah.'' There is now sufficient, credible evidence that funds from the offshore al-Yamamah accounts were funneled to at least two of the 9/11 hijackers, to warrant a high-profile Justice Department probe, without delay.

The newly released documents, when cross-gridded with other evidence already in the public domain, confirm the Anglo-Saudi hand behind 9/11, and debunk nearly eight years of conspiracy rubbish, that portrayed the attacks as a scheme by cave-dwellers and ``under the floorboard'' mysterious forces. The writings of a former LaRouche associate, Webster Tarpley, more or less typify the kind of off-course conspiracy mongering that is now thoroughly discredited by the new material and the larger picture assembled by EIR researchers.

Elements of the story have already been reported in EIR, and LaRouche instinctively pointed to the true nature of the operation, in a now-famous radio interview that he gave to the Salt Lake City-based syndicated radio host Dr. Jack Stockwell, as the hijacked planes were crashing into the Twin Towers and the Pentagonon the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.

If the full implications of the new, confirming evidence of the Anglo-Saudi hand in the 9/11 attack are comprehended and acted on, by the appropriate U.S. and other government services, one of the root sources of global asymmetric warfare can be wiped out--with many other side benefits as well.

- The New Evidence -

Early this year, the National Archives released documents from the files of the 9/11 Commission, which were previously classified. Three of those documents, recently obtained by EIR, provide the ``smoking gun,'' proving the central role of Saudi intelligence, and the critical support role of British intelligence in the preparation, execution, and coverup of 9/11. The most significant of the documents, still partly classified, is a ``Memorandum for the Record,'' summarizing an April 23, 2004 interview with a Southern California-based FBI informant, who rented a room in his home to two of the 9/11 hijackers during 2000. Although the memorandum redacted the informant's name, other public sources have identified the man as Abdussattar Shaikh. His FBI handler has also been publicly named as Steven Butler.

In the interview, Shaikh provided a detailed account of his first encounter with the two 9/11 hijackers, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar. In April 2000, Shaikh posted an announcement on the bulletin board at the Islamic Center of San Diego (ICSD), offering to rent rooms in his home to ``devout Muslims.'' At the time he posted the ad, Shaikh was already acting as a paid informant for the FBI. According to his account to 9/11 Commission investigators Quinn John Tamm, Jr. and Dietrich Snell, Shaikh was approached after Friday prayers by al-Hazmi, who said he and al-Mihdhar urgently needed housing. By Shaikh's account, the two men moved into his home on May 10, 2000. Al-Mihdhar left after six weeks, claiming that he was returning to Saudi Arabia to visit his wife and young child. Al-Hazmi lived in the room until Dec. 10, 2000, when he moved out to attend pilot school in Arizona.

At one point in the interview, the 9/11 investigators asked Dr. Shaikh about another Saudi, Omar al-Bayoumi. From the Commission document: ``Dr. Xxxxxx[Shaikh] noted that Omar al-Bayoumi also visited al-Hazmi at his house. Dr. Xxxxxx knew al-Bayoumi as a Saudi national who Dr. Xxxxxx met at the ICSD. Al-Bayoumi stated to Dr. Xxxxxx when he visited, that `I referred them (al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar) to you.' Dr. Xxxxxx restated that his was not the case and that he met the two in the hallway of the ICSD after the Friday prayer service.''

The report continued: ``Al-Hazmi did not like al-Bayoumi and told Dr. Xxxxxx that al-Bayoumi was `an agent for the Saudis.' Al-Hazmi complained to Dr. Xxxxxx that al-Bayoumi video taped people associated with the ICSD constantly. Dr. Xxxxxx noted that was his experience when he attended events at the ICSD. Dr. Xxxxxx said that al-Bayoumi always had his videotape recorder and sought comment to the open mike on the videotape recorder. Dr. Xxxxxx stated that, `I have heard that al-Bayoumi is an agent (of the Saudis).''

Dr. Shaikh's candid description of Omar al-Bayoumi as a Saudi intelligence agent, in regular contact with one of the 9/11 hijackers, is stunning in its own right. The fact that Dr. Shaikh was an FBI informant, who, according to several U.S. intelligence sources, regularly received payments from the Bureau to keep tabs on the Muslim community in the San Diego area, and hosted two of the hijackers, is equally stunning. But the full extent of the al-Bayoumi dossier, as known to the FBI and other U.S. government agencies, goes well beyond the surface scandal.

Al-Bayoumi was far more than a ``frequent visitor'' to Dr. Shaikh's home, while al-Hazmi was living there. The essential facts are as follows.

On Jan. 15, 2000, al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar arrived at Los Angeles International Airport on a flight from Kuala Lampur, Malaysia, where they had attended a meeting of number of al-Qaeda members and allies. The two men were met at the airport by al-Bayoumi, who brought them to San Diego, rented them an apartment, co-signed the lease, and even put down $1,500 in deposit and rent. Al-Bayoumi would later arrange for the two men to enroll in flight training school.

Al-Bayoumi's links to three of the 9/11 hijackers (he hosted a third hijacker, Hani Hanjour, at his apartment on a number of occasions in the Spring of 2000, according to FBI and Congressional documents) prompted one Federal government source to tell reporters, ``Some Federal investigators suspect that al-Bayoumi could have been an advance man for the 9/11 hijackers.''

But al-Bayoumi was also, undisputedly, an agent of Saudi intelligence! According to the FBI and CIA dossier on him, and records from both the House-Senate joint intelligence probe and the 9/11 Commission, al-Bayoumi came to the United States in August 1994. He was previously employed by the Saudi Ministry of Defense, and continued to draw a salary of $3,000 a month from the Ministry after he moved to the United States, through 2002. In the U.S., he was formally listed as an employee of Dallah Avco, a Saudi defense company that held lucrative contracts with the Ministry of Defense and Aviation, and was owned by members of the Saudi Royal Family. According to U.S. Federal investigators, al-Bayoumi never actually did any work for Dallah Avco. However, his monthly salary from the firm increased to $3,500 right after al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar arrived in the U.S.A.

Further adding to al-Bayoumi's considerable personal finances, in June 1998, an anonymous contribution arrived from Saudi Arabia. The $500,000 was a down-payment on a new mosque, to be built in San Diego--with the proviso that Omar al-Bayoumi be appointed as director of maintenance, with an office and a guaranteed salary. Eyewitnesses told the FBI and the 9/11 Commission that al-Bayoumi was rarely seen at the mosque.

Al-Bayoumi was, however, in constant communication with top Saudi government officials in the United States and in Riyadh. According to the records of the joint Congressional investigation and the 9/11 Commission, between January 2000--when al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar arrived in California--and May 2000, al-Bayoumi made 32 calls to the Saudi Embassy in Washington, D.C., 37 calls to the Saudi Cultural Mission in Washington, and 24 calls to the Saudi Consulate in Los Angeles. His contact at the Consulate was Fahad Thumairy, who held diplomatic credentials, but was one of the most virulently anti-American imams in the area. He would be deported from the United States after 9/11.

In late June or early July 2001, al-Bayoumi and his wife, Manal Ahmed Bagader, suddenly left San Diego, and moved to England, where al-Bayoumi ostensibly entered business school at Aston University. Within days after the 9/11 attacks, he was detained by Scotland Yard and held for one week. However, he was released for lack of evidence, and he immediately left England for Saudi Arabia.

Osama Basnan -

Omar al-Bayoumi was not alone in his liaison work between Saudi intelligence and some of the 9/11 hijackers. He worked closely with another Saudi intelligence officer, Osama Basnan, who entered the United States in 1980 on a short-term tourist visa, but remained in the country until October 2002, when he and his wife were deported as illegal aliens.

An FBI report, written shortly after 9/11, warned that evidence gathered on Osama Basnan ``could indicate that he succeeded Omar al-Bayoumi and may be undertaking activities on behalf of the Government of Saudi Arabia.'' An FBI classified report, dated Oct. 3, 2001, noted that Basnan was in contact with members of the bin Laden family, living in the United States. In the days immediately following 9/11, members of the bin Laden family in the United States, along with other top Saudis, were quietly flown home--at a time when no other non-military flights were being allowed.

Basnan was a subject of FBI interest long before Sept. 11. In 1992, according to news accounts, Basnan was investigated by the Bureau for ties to Eritrean Islamic Jihad (EIJ), an organization that was closely linked to al-Qaeda by no later than 1996. On Oct. 17, 1992, Basnan, then living in Washington, D.C., hosted a party at his home for Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman, the so-called ``blind sheikh'' now in jail for plotting terrorist attacks in New York City. At the time, according to U.S. intelligence sources, the FBI produced a still-classified report, detailing Basnan's work for the Saudi government, despite his ties to Islamic radicals.

Indeed, U.S. intelligence sources report that Basnan was arrested on drug charges in the Los Angeles area, but the charges were dropped, after intensive pressure from the Saudi Embassy.

- The Ambassador and the Princess -

If Omar al-Bayoumi's ties to the Saudi Ministry of Defense and Aviation are firmly established, his personal ties to the former Saudi Ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and his wife, Princess Haifa, are even less in dispute. In April 1998, Prince Bandar, who is also the son of the Saudi Defense Minister, Prince Sultan, sent a check to Basnan in the amount of $15,000. Bandar claims that the check was an ``act of charity,'' in response to a written appeal by Basnan for help in paying medical bills for his wife. Beginning in November 1999, just weeks before the two 9/11 hijackers arrived at the Los Angeles Airport, Princess Haifa began sending monthly cashiers checks, from her account at Riggs National Bank in Washington, to Basnan's wife, Majida Ibrahim Ahmad Dweikat. The checks continued until May 2002. The royal couple sent a total of $53-72,000 to Basnan and his wife. According to the House-Senate joint investigation, many of the cashier checks from Princess Haifa to Basnan's wife were signed over to the wife of Omar al-Bayoumi. Most of these transactions took place while Basnan and al-Bayoumi were ``handling'' the financial affairs of at least two of the 9/11 hijackers, al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar. And the pair of Saudi intelligence officers also had some, as yet not-fully-known ties to a third hijacker, Hani Hanjour.

- Prince Bandar's BAE Bounty -

At the time that Prince Bandar and Princess Haifa were making their ``charitable'' contributions to Basnan and al-Bayoumi, the then-Saudi Ambassador to the United States was on the receiving end of at least $2 billion in kickbacks from Great Britain's premier defense firm, BAE Systems. The BAE scandal exploded into the public view several years ago, when BBC, the London {Guardian}, and other publications revealed that BAE was making tens of billions of dollars in payouts to Saudi Defense Ministry officials, and other members of the Saudi Royal Family, in return for arms contracts worth a fortune.

The BAE-Saudi scandal dated all the way back to 1985, when Prince Bandar personally brokered a deal with then-British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, to sell an initial $40 billion in BAE military hardware and services to Saudi Arabia, in return for Saudi crude oil. The deal, cynically known as ``al-Yamamah'' (``the Dove'') was far more than a barter arrangement. BAE padded the costs of the fighter jets, training planes, air defense systems and support services by an estimated one-third, to launder payoffs to top Saudis--including Prince Bandar. In return, Saudi Arabia delivered the equivalent of one super-tanker of oil {per day} (on average) to BAE, which had a contract with British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell, to immediately sell the oil on the spot market. For the Saudis, it was a lucrative deal. Even aside from the kickbacks that lined the pockets of many a Saudi prince and ministry official, the crude oil cost the Saudis under $5 a barrel. BP and Royal Dutch Shell sold the oil at fantastic markups.

As the result of this unique arrangement, an offshore Anglo-Saudi intelligence slush fund was amassed, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars, starting in 1985. In a semi-official biography of Prince Bandar, published several years ago, author William Simpson candidly wrote that al-Yamamah was, first and foremost, a geo-strategic partnership between London and Riyadh, which funneled money covertly to the Afghan mujahideen who were battling the Soviet Army in the 1980s; funded Chad in its border war with Libya; and bypassed the U.S. Congress to deliver American military hardware to the Saudi Air Force.

Some senior U.S. intelligence officials insist that a full investigation of Prince Bandar's role in the al-Yamamah scheme would reveal that some of the BAE payoffs went from the Bank of England, to Bandar's account at Riggs National Bank--into the hands of Basnan, al-Bayoumi, and the California 9/11 hijackers cell. By Aug. 2, 2003, so many questions had been raised about the Bandar payoffs to Basnan, that the Ambassador was forced to issue a personal statement, through the Saudi Embassy, branding the allegations ``baseless and not true,'' nothing more than ``rumor, innuendo, and untruths.'' He cited President George W. Bush, who ``praised the Saudi commitment to fighting terrorism.''

Bandar's efforts to cover up the Saudi government hand in 9/11 by invoking the words of President Bush only served to further infuriate those U.S. officials who were actually trying to get to the bottom of the Sept. 11 plot. House and Senate intelligence committee investigators knew, for example, that when their final ``Report of the Joint Inquiry into the Terrorist Attacks of Sept. 11, 2001'' was submitted to the White House for final review before publication, the entire text of a 28-page chapter, documenting evidence of Saudi government support for the hijackers--including the Bandar payments to Basnan--was blocked from publication and remains classified to this day. In a recent meeting with the families of the 9/11 victims, President Barack Obama was pressed to declassify the chapter.

Both Presidents Bush were so close to Prince Bandar that the longtime Saudi Ambassador was widely referred to as an ``honorary member of the Bush family.'' The G.W. Bush White House commitment to brutally suppress the evidence of the Anglo-Saudi hand in 9/11 was so deep that Osama Basnan, the Saudi intelligence officer, felt confident enough to be in Houston, Texas, on April 24-25, 2002, when then-Saudi Crown Prince (now King) Abdullah, along with Prince Bandar, visited President Bush at his Crawford, Texas ranch. The Crown Prince's entourage was massive--eight planeloads of aides and hangers-on. Among the crowd were three Saudi officials suspected of ties to al-Qaeda. The ``embarrassing'' incident was suppressed, along with Basnan's presence in nearby Houston, where he was reportedly meeting with a billionaire Saudi prince who was part of the Crawford entourage.

Four months later, Sen. Bob Graham (D-Fla.), who chaired the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, which conducted the joint Congressional 9/11 probe along with the House Intelligence Committee, declared that, to his knowledge, the CIA had ``incontrovertible evidence that there is support for these terrorists within the Saudi government.'' Hewould later emphasize the point in his book on the joint Congressional probe, Intelligence Matters.

- Britain: State Sponsor of Terrorism -

In December 2000, the Editors of EI submitted a lengthy memorandum to then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, seeking an investigation of British government sponsorship of international terrorism. The memo, prepared with the assistance of State Department attorneys, who provided EIR with the official criteria for placing a nation on the list of ``state sponsors of terrorism,'' relied exclusively on official government documents, from no fewer than nine nations, that had formally protested British government protection, and, in some cases, financing of active terrorist cells on British soil. The EIR memo was triggered by a rash of asymmetric warfare attacks, many by groups spawned out of the 1979-89 Afghanistan War against the Soviets, a war covertly bankrolled and logistically backed by British, French, American, Saudi, and Israeli intelligence services.

The British government's protection was extended to such terror groups as the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK), which had a radio transmitter in Britain that beamed marching orders for terrorist attacks into eastern Turkey; the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, which carried out a brutal 1997 attack on Japanese tourists at Luxor, Egypt, and had earlier assassinated Egyptian President Anwar Sadat; the Indian terrorist group Lashkar e-Taibi, which carried out assassinations and hijackings in 1999; and Chechen terrorists, who were recruited out of mosques in England.

Among the charges against the British government: British intelligence had looked the other way, throughout the 1990s, as Osama bin Laden moved between Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, and England. The London Times admitted that, throughout the second half of 1996, bin Laden made frequent trips to London, ''clearly under the protection of British authorities.'' The Times had spotted bin Laden, earlier in the 1990s, at the London estate of Khalid bin Mahfouz, a wealthy Saudi banker who was a leading Muslim Brotherhood funder of a wide array of Jihadi groups, and was a majorshareholder in the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI). In 1994, the French and Algerian governments filed diplomatic demarches with the British Foreign Office, charging that Osama bin Laden had met with leaders of the Islamic Group of Algeria (GIA), which was then in the middle of a blind terror bombing campaign in both countries. French intelligence tracked the bin Laden/GIA meetings to a bin Laden-owned estate in Wembley. For three months in 1994, according to other French sources, including investigator Roland Jacquard, Osama bin Laden lived on Harrow Road in London. Even after he left the country, bin Laden's leading propagandists operated out of London.

According to ``conventional wisdom,'' the British protection of a worldwide nexus of terrorist organizations was based on an understanding that the groups would not operate on British soil, or target British interests abroad. But, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the history of the British Empire, from the early days of the British East India Company, through Lord Palmerston's sponsorship of the Young Europe, Young America, and Young Turk operations of the 19th Century, realizes immediately that this is a fraud. Sponsorship of asymmetric warfare is at the very heart of the British/Venetian method. And the Anglo-Saudi al-Yamamah project is the 20th- and 21st-Century equivalent of the British East India Company's sponsorship of legions of ethnic and religious separatist groups, assuring a ready stable of political assassins and perpetrators of ``chaos on demand'' around the globe.

- Will the Bush League Coverup End? -

Even as investigators for the joint Congressional inquiry and the 9/11 Commission attempted to get at the role of Saudi intelligence in 9/11, a vicious coverup was being imposed directly from the White House, and with full complicity of elements within the FBI and Department of Justice. It became so blatant, that three 9/11 Commission investigators--Kevin Scheid, Col. Lorry Fenner, and Gordon Lederman--drafted a memo to their staff supervisors, Dan Marcus and Steve Dunne, proposing guidelines for FBI and other ``minders.'' The memo bitterly complained that FBI and other ``minders'' sitting in on interviews with Commission witnesses, interfered in the questioning and intimidated the witnesses:

``Minders have positioned themselves physically and have conducted themselves in a manner that we believe intimidates witnesses from giving full and candid responses to our questions. Minders generally sat next to witnesses at the table and across from Commission staff, conveying to witnesses that minders are participants in interviews and are of equal status to witnesses . Moreover, minders take verbatim notes of witnesses' statements and may engage in retribution. We believe that the next effect of minders' conduct, whether intentionally or not, is to intimidate witnesses and to interfere with witnesses providing full and candid responses.''

The memo concluded with a plea: ``We request that you raise the subject of minders' conduct with the Executive Branch in order to prevent minders from comporting themselves in these ways in the future.''

Attached to the memo were ten proposed rules of conduct, to block the intimidation. Apart from the fact that the memorandum was declassified and released at the National Archive earlier this year, no action was taken and the Bush White House coverup--typified by the suppression of the Congressional report section dealing with Saudi government complicity in 9/11--continued to the end.

- Condoleezza Rice Lied -

The coverup, in at least one case, may have involved contempt of Congress. When a battle erupted between the 9/11 Commission and the White House over the public disclosure of segments of a Presidential Daily Briefing from August 2001, in which President Bush was explicitly warned about a high-probability al-Qaeda attack against the continental United States, then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice testified before Congress that there was no ``actionable intelligence'' provided by the intelligence community, and that no one could have anticipated the events of 9/11.

In stark contrast to Rice's sworn testimony, U.S. intelligence had strong indications that, not only was al-Qaeda planning to hijack planes, but was planning to use them as weapons. According to the third document released this year by the 9/11 Commission, the Federal Aviation Administration and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) conducted a series of exercises, as early as October 1998--shortly after the attacks on two U.S. embassies in Africa--involving hijackings. The last of the exercises, ``Vigilant Guardian I,'' took place between Sept. 6-10, 2001. In one of the scenarios, described in a 9/11 Commission summary chronology, a London-to-New York flight is hijacked by ``terrorists with explosives who plan to detonate them over NYC.'' Clearly, the idea that terrorists were planning to use aircraft as a weapon against New York City, was on the minds of some Federal counter-terror officials prior to 9/11.

Basnan's Free Ride Home -

On Oct. 21, 2002, a Federal judge in California ordered Osama Yousef Basnan and his wife, Majida Ibrahim Ahmad Dweikat, to be deported from the United States--for immigration violations! The Saudi intelligence officer who had been in the country illegally since the early 1980s, who had bankrolled, along with Omar al-Bayoumi, at least two of the 9/11 hijackers, was so pleased with the judge's order to send him back to Saudi Arabia, that he walked up to the Federal prosecutor at the end of the hearing and shook his hand, thanking him profusely for the free ride home.

The message delivered that day in court could not have been clearer: The Anglo-Saudi terror nexus was off limits. The idea that two of America's most trusted so-called allies--Great Britain and Saudi Arabia--had betrayed the United States, and played an indispensible role in the worst terrorist atrocity in history on American soil, was to be buried

[slvr01]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k167/midnightmach/impliedfacepalmgo1.jpg

[Mustangman_2000]

Some real interesting facts in this. If you make it through the 9/11 section check out the pre 9/11 oddities and coincidences.http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html

I like your screen name.

[slvr01]

Good god are there really this many stupid fucks out there that believe this load of crap? You guy's should stop bogarting the good stuff and pass it around because you must be high to believe this shit. Here is a site for all of you "open minded people' aka crack pots. I'm sure someone has showed you this before but being the "open minded people" you are you chose to ignore it because it doesn't propagate your theories.
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

No comment on this? I should have known you conspirarcy guy's would over look this because it flies in the face of your beliefs.:lame:

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

No comment on this? I should have known you conspiracy guy's would over look this because it flies in the face of your beliefs.:lame:

Well since they're claiming that the plane crash did get hot enough to cause the collapses then how do you explain the passport of Mohamed ATTA surviving the plane on fire, the burning building, and discovered within 48 hours in all the rubble? I should have known you TV news believers would overlook this because it borders on a probability of 1 in a billion chance of that happening. So right back at you with your lame shit. There's more questions that the government can't/won't answer than the conspiracy people's theories that can't be answered.

[46Tbird]

Well since they're claiming that the plane crash did get hot enough to cause the collapses then how do you explain the passport of Mohamed ATTA surviving the plane on fire, the burning building, and discovered within 48 hours in all the rubble? I should have known you TV news believers would overlook this because it borders on a probability of 1 in a billion chance of that happening. So right back at you with your lame shit. There's more questions that the government can't/won't answer than the conspiracy people's theories that can't be answered.Show me a news story where this is claimed.

Atta's luggage was recovered in a different airport since his flight was delayed and the airline didn't transfer it in time. Never seen anything specific about "his intact passport surviving the inferno and found in the rubble 48 hours later." In fact, wasn't he one of the people they had a hard time identifying? I think they initially had him confused with another guy.

[AdamLX]

Show me a news story where this is claimed.

Atta's luggage was recovered in a different airport since his flight was delayed and the airline didn't transfer it in time. Never seen anything specific about "his intact passport surviving the inferno and found in the rubble 48 hours later." In fact, wasn't he one of the people they had a hard time identifying? I think they initially had him confused with another guy.


Well I think the issue here is the conspiracy buffs can't even get their stories straight on where the passport was found. Half say it was found in the rubble and the other half saysit fell from all the debris when the plain struck the building and was found several blocks away and handed to a police officer the same day it happened, not 48 hours later.

And Homer Simpson, where in the hell did you come up with that 1 in a Billion statistic?

[ceyko]

Okay, it's a conspiracy. Now what ya gonna do?

[slvr01]

Well since they're claiming that the plane crash did get hot enough to cause the collapses then how do you explain the passport of Mohamed ATTA surviving the plane on fire, the burning building, and discovered within 48 hours in all the rubble? I should have known you TV news believers would overlook this because it borders on a probability of 1 in a billion chance of that happening. So right back at you with your lame shit. There's more questions that the government can't/won't answer than the conspiracy people's theories that can't be answered.

So how do you know he had it on his person. It could have been stuffed in an overhead compartment or god knows where. Seems like I remember a bunch of paper and stuff falling from the towers after the impact. You do realise when there is an explosion it creates a shock wave and things get blown all over the place. I not sure but I wouldn't be suprised that personal belongings of passengers on the plane were also found in the rubble. Stranger things have happened.

[AL P]

Well since they're claiming that the plane crash did get hot enough to cause the collapses then how do you explain the passport of Mohamed ATTA surviving the plane on fire, the burning building, and discovered within 48 hours in all the rubble? I should have known you TV news believers would overlook this because it borders on a probability of 1 in a billion chance of that happening. So right back at you with your lame shit. There's more questions that the government can't/won't answer than the conspiracy people's theories that can't be answered.

Eyewitness accounts say there was a rain of debris and body parts when the planes hit the buildings. So much for the "1 in a billion" chance.

[slvr01]

I seem to remember when the space shuttle burnt up on re-entry over Texas that they found some journal or something that one of the astronauts had kept while on the mission. What would be the odds on that?

[AL P]

I seem to remember when the space shuttle burnt up on re-entry over Texas that they found some journal or something that one of the astronauts had kept while on the mission. What would be the odds on that?

Journal, body parts, equipment, etc, all strung out over something like a 400 mile trail. And that thing was exposed to re-entry heat.

[slvr01]

Journal, body parts, equipment, etc, all strung out over something like a 400 mile trail. And that thing was exposed to re-entry heat.

Impossible it must be a conspiracy nothing could survive that. lol

[46Tbird]

Journal, body parts, equipment, etc, all strung out over something like a 400 mile trail. And that thing was exposed to re-entry heat.That must mean the Columbia accident was a conspiracy!! You're a close-minded idiot for not even questioning "their" story!

[AdamLX]

I seem to remember when the space shuttle burnt up on re-entry over Texas that they found some journal or something that one of the astronauts had kept while on the mission. What would be the odds on that?

1 in 2 Billion.

[GhostTX]

That must mean the Columbia accident was a conspiracy!! You're a close-minded idiot for not even questioning "their" story!

The whole thing was filmed on a Hollywood set!!!! Curse you, Spielberg!!!!

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Sorry guys I haven't taken my meds lately. I took my dose and all is good now. The government never lies, and I see now that I'm just a delusional paranoid nut case. Thank you all.

[46Tbird]

But.... I had a request. :confused: Show me the light!

Show me a news story where this is claimed.

[AL P]

Sorry guys I haven't taken my meds lately. I took my dose and all is good now. The government never lies, and I see now that I'm just a delusional paranoid nut case. Thank you all.

This is the only response you have when someone points out the failing of your theories? Typical.

The government lies all the time. But the bigger problem is that people are just plain old dumb. Kind of like the theory that the World Trade Center was wired with explosives. Or that everything burned up in the fire. Or that the fire wasn't hot enough to cause the steel frame of the building to lose strength. Those are all theories that do nothing more than point out the fact that you slept through science class. Or went behind the gym and smoked doobies with your friends.

Which is more likely?

-There is a vast worldwide conspiracy that involves hundreds of people, none of whom have talked

~or~

-You are just gullible and not worth a shit at science?


I know where my money is at.

[GhostTX]

Which is more likely?

-There is a vast worldwide conspiracy that involves hundreds of people, none of whom have talked

~or~

-You are just gullible and not worth a shit at science?


I know where my money is at.
I always like how these same people talk how dumb Bush is, yet somehow he's the mastermind of one of the greatest conspiracies of all time.

[slvr01]

Sorry guys I haven't taken my meds lately. I took my dose and all is good now. The government never lies, and I see now that I'm just a delusional paranoid nut case. Thank you all.

I have no doubt that the government lies or tells us half truths. My theory on this point is some of things that happened on 9/11 need not be public knowledge because it would do more harm than good. Don't want to cause a panic. It's kind of like being a manager or other similar position at your work. You can't always tell people the truth about some things it's counter productive to everyone involved. Causes undo stress and demoralises the work force it benifits no one.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

But.... I had a request. :confused: Show me the light! http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/mar/19/september11.iraq
This is the only response you have when someone points out the failing of your theories? Typical.
The only thing failing continuously is the governments story. That's typical.
The government lies all the time. But the bigger problem is that people are just plain old dumb. Kind of like the theory that the World Trade Center was wired with explosives. Or that everything burned up in the fire. Or that the fire wasn't hot enough to cause the steel frame of the building to lose strength. Those are all theories that do nothing more than point out the fact that you slept through science class. Or went behind the gym and smoked doobies with your friends.

Which is more likely?

-There is a vast worldwide conspiracy that involves hundreds of people, none of whom have talked

~or~

-You are just gullible and not worth a shit at science?


I know where my money is at.

I'll give you that I suck at science, thankfully it doesn't take a scientist to see all the holes in the story we've been told. Can you explain Larry Silverstein's quote "we decided to pull it" referring to wtc #7? Pull it must be a science term for blowing up a building. Here's the video of him saying it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100
I always like how these same people talk how dumb Bush is, yet somehow he's the mastermind of one of the greatest conspiracies of all time. Mastermind and Bush should never be said in the same sentence. It's a fact he lied, it's a fact he sat in a fucking classroom while our country was under attack, and it's a fact he's been linked to Bin Laden. I'm sorry but that's not a worthy leader.

I have no doubt that the government lies or tells us half truths. My theory on this point is some of things that happened on 9/11 need not be public knowledge because it would do more harm than good. Don't want to cause a panic. It's kind of like being a manager or other similar position at your work. You can't always tell people the truth about some things it's counter productive to everyone involved. Causes undo stress and demoralizes the work force it benefits no one.

Now what possibly could cause more panic then 2,000 or however many people died that day. We need to know everything the government knows about what happened that day. You are right also, if we did know everything people would panic and know that our leaders sat on their asses and let this happen for a reason.

[46Tbird]

An opinion piece from the GUARDIAN? I was hoping you could come up with something a step above The Enquirer, with images and documenation about the passport claims. Find me something on Fox, NBC, something a little more substantial than the freaking Guardian.

And FYI, I think you have the story somewhat wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PENTTBOM

[slvr01]

Now what possibly could cause more panic then 2,000 or however many people died that day. We need to know everything the government knows about what happened that day. You are right also, if we did know everything people would panic and know that our leaders sat on their asses and let this happen for a reason.

I believe it was over 3,000 total I could be wrong though.One more time I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT Did they make a colossal mistake in preventing it odds are yes. Do you hand out intelligence to the media so the next group of people that want to do harm to us has more info on how to do it. Absolutely not. Why do you think we were so successfull in wartime operations during WWII. Heres a hint they did not report everthing they knew or were going to do to the American people and the media. I think during times of war there should be alot of control about infromation the government allows to be told to the world at large. I admire your passion for this subject but I believe it is a little misguided. Loose lips sink ships.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

An opinion piece from the GUARDIAN? I was hoping you could come up with something a step above The Enquirer, with images and documenation about the passport claims. Find me something on Fox, NBC, something a little more substantial than the freaking Guardian.

And FYI, I think you have the story somewhat wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PENTTBOM

I have an ABC news one but they killed the link. That link actually said Atta but maybe they squashed it because they said the wrong person which is definitely a possibility, and then the conspiracy people ran with that point which I've commonly heard but failed to look beyond the documentaries that claimed it. My mistake.
Here's one that says they found another hijackers passport. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami

Either way IMO it's a very slim chance of them finding it and it actually being one of the culprits.

[46Tbird]

Either way IMO it's a very slim chance of them finding it and it actually being one of the culprits.
One in a billion. :D

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

One in a billion. :D

Give or take a highjacker :veryhappy:

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Here's an ex FBI agent saying we need a new investigation. http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/07/ex-fbi-agent-why-i-support-a-new-911-investigation/