Vacuum breakers - WTF???

[miketyler]

We bought this house and I never paid attention to the these fittings that were on the end of all the outside faucets until recently. We have 100psi water pressure in Lake Ridge and when you turn off one of the faucets, it sprays an umbrella about 5ft in diameter and will dowse you. You cannot avoid it.

So we have two that are doing this. I managed to remove one (it was installed with loctite) and have not been successful in finding a replacement. Its a fine thread but larger than the fine thread vacuum breakers that Home Depot sells. I cant believe they used some one-off sized faucets in this house. Am I going to have to replace the faucets complete to fix this or ?

Also, can anyone provide the clinical definition for these and their purpose? I guess they are code now for new construction?

[Doug Hatton]

Subscribing... mine do that too... The only solution I've found is if I have a hose hooked up, to squeeze the sprayer on the end at the same time I turn it off. The reduces the pressure and the dousing.... lol.

[bcoop]

Do you have any pictures of it? It's possible that to save on materials the plumber used some leftover commercial vacuum breakers. If it's commercial (T&S, Fisher, Dormont), I can steer you in the right direction.


Oh, and it's pretty much a check valve. It keeps waste water from flowing back in to the fresh water supply.

[bcoop]

You positive this one won't work?


http://www.pexsupply.com/Watts-0061983-3-4-8B-Hose-Connection-Vacuum-Breaker-4520000-p

[miketyler]

ok, will get pics. I went to a plumbing supply house and they only sell them already attached to new faucets.

[bcoop]

ok, will get pics. I went to a plumbing supply house and they only sell them already attached to new faucets.

Check the link I posted.


EDIT: Rather than wasting time posting pictures, take a look at this and compare with what you have.

http://www.thefind.com/hardware/info-atmospheric-vacuum-breaker


http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-3190-vacuum-breaker-34garden-hose-inlet-and-outlet-atmospheric.aspx?affiliateid=10052&utm_source=shopzilla&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Product&utm_term=B-0972

The second link is the one you need, which is the same as the one I posted earlier, just a different brand.

If you have a Ferguson Plumbing Supply near you, that's where I would go. Fuck a bunch of HD and Lowe's for plumbing shit. They're worthless.

[miketyler]

You positive this one won't work?


http://www.pexsupply.com/Watts-00619...aker-4520000-p

I'd be willing to bet thats the same fine thread size that Home Depot carries. Mine is slightly larger.

[bcoop]

I'd be willing to bet thats the same fine thread size that Home Depot carries. Mine is slightly larger.



That's the one that works with garden hose thread, so it depends on your definition/perception of "fine thread". I wouldn't call garden hose thread fine, in fact I'd say it's more course than my definition of "fine thread".


Are you saying you've got an outdoor faucet that isn't standard threading? If that's the case, have you had to change out all hose ends to make it work with the faucet?

[miketyler]

I must have breezed thru that link. The faucet itself is fine thread. The vacuum breaker threads on to it. The opposite end of the vacuum breaker is the standard hose end thread (coarse).

My issue is that there seems to be some derivation in fine thread sizes that the faucet manufacturers use. Maybe mine is commercial grade?

Home Depot only carries two vacuum breakers. They both use a set screw like the one in your link; One is fine thread and one has a standard hose end thread.

[bcoop]

I must have breezed thru that link. The faucet itself is fine thread. The vacuum breaker threads on to it. The opposite end of the vacuum breaker is the standard hose end thread (coarse).

My issue is that there seems to be some derivation in fine thread sizes that the faucet manufacturers use. Maybe mine is commercial grade?

Home Depot only carries two vacuum breakers. They both use a set screw like the one in your link; One is fine thread and one has a standard hose end thread.



Back to posting a picture. lol


Also, do you happen to know the mfr of the faucet?

[junior]

its supposed to be like a backflow preventer kind of thing.

[bard]

What about reducing the water pressure to the house?

[PeeWeeC5]

What about reducing the water pressure to the house?

Agreed, why do you need 100psi of water pressure? Are you on city water or a well?

[bcoop]

Agreed, why do you need 100psi of water pressure? Are you on city water or a well?



I agree to a point, but vacuum breakers/backflow preventers are code in most areas, and quickly spreading in areas where it's not code already. I think it's mandated by law now, due to the possible threat of biological warfare.

[miketyler]

100psi is city water pressure and city controlled. I would have to put a regulator in the source line and that throws off my sprinkler setup (Junior will tell you). The high pressure isnt the problem as I have two other outside faucets that dont spray you no matter how quickly you close the faucet.

I'll get pics of this thing and post em up this afternoon

[PeeWeeC5]

I agree to a point, but vacuum breakers/backflow preventers are code in most areas, and quickly spreading in areas where it's not code already. I think it's mandated by law now, due to the possible threat of biological warfare.

I know the anti-siphon/back flow breakers are code in most cities now I was just questioning the 100psi. That's crazy, I have never heard of city water pressure being that high.

[miketyler]

Yeah I know. I thought it was crazy high too. Junior checked it when he was servicing my sprinkler system. My system has as many as 7 rotators per zone which can only work in a system that has higher pressures. He can tell you more about it but I gather that 50-60psi is more the norm.

[bcoop]

My system has as many as 7 rotators per zone which can only work in a system that has higher pressures.



Jesus. You watering a small farm or something?

[miketyler]

yeah, more or less. Its an acre lot fully irrigated with 11 zones. Gotta keep that 15k sqft of sod I just bought alive you know

[Doug Hatton]

I was under the impression it was some sort of "freeze-proofing"....

[bcoop]

I was under the impression it was some sort of "freeze-proofing"....

hahahahahaha



Not at all. Not even close. Not even in the same fucking state, Doug.

[Doug Hatton]

Ok... I know what a vacuum breaker is. It keeps you from contaminating the supply with backflow. What I'm saying is that the fitting that's on your outside faucet is designed to bleed off pressure, which removes the water from the valve side of the line, hence protecting the line from freezing. I have the same thing on my outside faucets. It'll hose your ass down when you turn off the water.

[Avery'sDad]

What a coincedence. I've been messing with mine the last couple of days. It also has more places to leak so that if you want to water your lawn you also get to over water the area where the bibb is. :cussing:

I also tried to replace one at home depot and wouldn't you know it it was the wrong size. It was too big to fit on my bibb. WTF? I just returned it this morning and got some teflon tape. I hope it works cause I'll have to shut off the main valve after I kick the bibb off the house.

[jyro]

hwy 67, show them what you have, chances are they have a part to fit it

[DBEAU2]

The vacum breaker needs to be on the faucets per code in most cities. Now the real problem is the high water pressure. You need to get your pressure back down to abut 80psi at a min. Try to get your city\water district to do this for you but if not pay a plumber to put a regulator on your side of the water meter. If you continue with the high pressure one day it will blow a line going to the toilet or somewhere and flood your house. I had this happen to a friend but she was home and it didn't flood too bad. She put the regulator on there and it fixed the problem.

[Big Studly]

The vacum breaker needs to be on the faucets per code in most cities. Now the real problem is the high water pressure. You need to get your pressure back down to abut 80psi at a min. Try to get your city\water district to do this for you but if not pay a plumber to put a regulator on your side of the water meter. If you continue with the high pressure one day it will blow a line going to the toilet or somewhere and flood your house. I had this happen to a friend but she was home and it didn't flood too bad. She put the regulator on there and it fixed the problem.

yea, great advice.....

or you can be smart about it and just close down the plug valve in the man hole out in front of your house...

oh yea, and if 80 psi blows out a pipe, you have other serious issues....pipes are made to withstand 250 psig MWP and even cheap valves are rated at 150 psig MWP.

I find it amusing that this is something the city tries to regulate with code, I doubt the city has the man power, or the interest to go around inspecting hose bibs for vacuum breakers. Good idea to have a vacuum breaker? Maybe, Waste of time to mess with it if you don't have one? I think so.

That is okay though, with the dumb ass green movement and stupid environmentalists, it won't be long before we have grey water systems in new homes, which will drive home costs up probably 10%.

[Big Studly]

What a coincedence. I've been messing with mine the last couple of days. It also has more places to leak so that if you want to water your lawn you also get to over water the area where the bibb is. :cussing:

I also tried to replace one at home depot and wouldn't you know it it was the wrong size. It was too big to fit on my bibb. WTF? I just returned it this morning and got some teflon tape. I hope it works cause I'll have to shut off the main valve after I kick the bibb off the house.

if I were you, I would go ahead and plan on shutting the water off...

[Big Studly]

I agree to a point, but vacuum breakers/backflow preventers are code in most areas, and quickly spreading in areas where it's not code already. I think it's mandated by law now, due to the possible threat of biological warfare.

it isn't in the latest version of the IPC for hose bibs, but that doesn't mean cities aren't writing in amendments to require them.

[miketyler]

From what I've read, they are there to protect the city drinking water supply. Some municipalities have a backflow preventer at the meter to keep any contaminants from the residence getting into the main supply.

I went to Maxwells plumbing supply near 67 and Wintergreen they didn't have them. They suggested I buy a new valve with the BFP already installed. Would be great if they sold a rebuild kit but I get the idea they really dont want homeowners tampering with them.

I also tried to replace one at home depot and wouldn't you know it it was the wrong size. It was too big to fit on my bibb. WTF? I just returned it this morning and got some teflon tape.

Same thing that happened to me. Teflon tape wont cure it, the thing is spraying from the relief holes in the valve. I suspect I will end up relacing the complete bib assembly with BFP valve. Maxwells has new ones for around $15/ea

[Big Studly]

From what I've read, they are there to protect the city drinking water supply. Some municipalities have a backflow preventer at the meter to keep any contaminants from the residence getting into the main supply.

not some, all....

that is code. Potable water supply needs to have a backflow preventer on the supply line leading to a house/building.

Like I said, the vacuum breakers on hose bibs make me laugh, all you are doing is "contaminating" the water supply in your house.

[jyro]

yea, great advice.....
or you can be smart about it and just close down the plug valve in the man hole out in front of your house...

now I know you're only a pretend engineer. Closing the plug valve down won't reduce the pressure at all when there's no flow.

[jyro]

I suspect I will end up relacing the complete bib assembly with BFP valve. Maxwells has new ones for around $15/ea

mine was a freeze proof one and about 6" long, I had to remove brick and solder the valve in with a torch, replace and remortor the brick, a real PIA