Iran

[jakesford]

Well its been a week of rioting after the reelection Mahmoud Ahmadinejad... So could the Iran "problem" finally take care of it's self? Maybe the social unrest has finally reached a tipping point...

[Vertnut]

He will start killing them off, and everything will quiet down.

[mikeb]

If the people of iran keep up the protests something will have to change. Ahmadinejad is facing some tough choices, either allow the protests to go on (ie: wait it out), or squash them with the military. Getting the military involved would enrage the people even more, leading to bigger protests and maybe a coup. Waiting it out has it's own risks as well. Definitely interesting times we live in.

[jakesford]

Bay of Pigs... but have it actually work this time:saroll:

[88Kaufmann]

Pssst, Israel....

Its time.... :buttkick:

[fast83]

to bad americans dont know how to rally together like the iranians.we just might be able to stop some shit here at home.

[Bubbaearl]

i bet the shaw don't look to bad to them any more. it's a fucking religious dictatorship not a democracy .

[Sgt Beavis]

Things MIGHT start getting real interesting now. However it is naive to think these folks will just rise up. Most of these protesters are NOT anti Khamenei (Iran's Supreme Leader). They are anti Ahmadinejad. Most of them support their Islamic system and respect Khamenei. Now that Khamenei has laid down the law they have to decide whether or not they are willing stand up against their Islamic system. I have a HUGE amount of doubt that these folks are ready to do that.

For those of you that don't know. Iran's real political power resides with Khamenei and the Guardian Counsel. Everything Iran's President does is with their approval. However they mainly take a hands off approach. During Presidential elections, the Supreme Leader (Khamenei) "approves" who the Presidential candidates are. He then allows the people to pick from the list of candidates. None of these candidates would dare stand up to Khamenei unless they are intent on starting a civil war or a coup. Of the four candidates, Ahmadinejad is the only one with the influence to potentially pull off something like that because he has a lot of influence in the Iranian military.

IMO, one of two things are about to happen. Either opposition candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi will back down and everything will go back to normal or we will see a massive crackdown with a lot of deaths. The only way that Mousavi becomes Iran's next President is through a coup and IMO these folks simply don't have the support or military backing to pull it off.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31440649/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

Khamenei says Iran vote was ‘definitive victory’
Supreme leader defends Ahmadinejad, sternly warns against 'chaos'

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's supreme leader said Friday that Iran's disputed presidential vote had not been rigged, sternly warning protesters to halt massive demonstrations or be held responsible for creating chaos.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei sided with hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and offered no concessions to the opposition. He effectively closed any chance for a new vote by calling the June 12 election a "definitive victory."

The speech created a stark choice for opposition candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi and his supporters: drop their demands for a new vote or take to the streets again in blatant defiance of the man endowed with virtually limitless powers under Iran's constitution.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

Pro-Mousavi Web sites had no immediate reaction to Khamenei’s warning and no announcement of any changes in a protest planned for 4 p.m. Saturday.

Khamenei blamed foreign media and Western countries of trying to create a political rift and stir up chaos in Iran.

"Some of our enemies in different parts of the world intended to depict this absolute victory, this definitive victory, as a doubtful victory," he said, according to an official translation on state TV's English-language channel. "It is your victory. They cannot manipulate it."

Speech at site of earlier riots
Khamenei said the 11 million votes that separated Ahmadinejad from his top opponent, Mousavi, was proof that fraud did not occur.

"If the difference was 100,000 or 200,000 or 1 million, one may say fraud could happen. But how can one rig 11 million votes?" Khamenei asked during Friday prayers at Tehran University.

Outside the university compound, thousands listened intently to his speech booming from loudspeakers set up along the street, at times cheering and chanting to voice their approval for his words.

At the same venue, hundreds of university students had demonstrated in support of Mousavi on Sunday, throwing stones at riot police trying to disperse protesters outside the gates.

Mousavi and his supporters have staged massive street rallies in recent days that have posed the greatest challenge to the Iran's Islamic ruling system since the 1979 Islamic Revolution that brought it to power.

State media have reported seven or eight people killed in protests, apparently by pro-government militia groups. Scores of opposition activists have been arrested.

Warning of a much harder crackdown
So far, the government has mostly allowed the protests to take place. But Khamenei opened the door for a much harder crackdown.

"It must be determined at the ballot box what the people want and what they don't want, not in the streets," he said. "I call on all to put an end to this method. ... If they don't, they will be held responsible for the chaos and the consequences."

Khamenei blamed the United States, Great Britain and what he called Iran's other enemies for fomenting unrest and said Iran would not see a second revolution like those that transformed the countries of the former Soviet Union.

"American officials’ remarks about human rights and limitations on people are not acceptable because they have no idea about human rights after what they have done in Afghanistan and Iraq and other parts of the world," he said. "We do not need advice on human rights from them."

Many European countries and international human rights organizations have criticized the election and its aftermath, but President Barack Obama’s administration has muted its comments to keep the door ajar for possible dialogue.

Khamenei remained staunch in his defense of Ahmadinejad, who attended Friday's prayers, saying his views were closer to the president's than to those of former President Hashemi Rafsanjani, a powerful patron of Mousavi.

Khamenei's address was his first since hundreds of thousands of Mousavi supporters flooded the streets in Tehran and elsewhere in the country in rallies evoking the revolution that ended Iran's U.S.-backed monarchy.

On Thursday, supporters dressed in black and green flooded downtown Tehran in a somber, candlelit show of mourning for those who have been killed in clashes since Friday's vote.

Khamenei said the street protests would not have any impact.

"Some may imagine that street action will create political leverage against the system and force the authorities to give in to threats. No, this is wrong," he said.

Small window of legal challenge
The supreme leader left open a small window for a legal challenge to the vote. He reiterated that he has ordered the Guardian Council, an unelected body of 12 clerics and Islamic law experts close to the supreme leader, to investigate voter fraud claims.

The Council has said it was prepared to conduct a limited recount of ballots at sites where candidates claim irregularities.

He stressed that the four candidates were part of the country's Islamic system and reminded listeners that Mousavi was prime minister of Iran when Khamenei was president in the 1980s.

"All of them belong to the system. It was a competition within the ruling system," he said.

So far, protesters have focused on the results of the balloting rather than challenging the Islamic system of government. But a shift in anger toward Iran's non-elected theocracy could result in a showdown over the foundation of Iran's system of rule.

Ahmadinejad has appeared to take the growing opposition more seriously in recent days, backtracking Thursday on his dismissal of the protesters as "dust" and sore losers.

The crowds in Tehran and elsewhere have been able to organize despite a government clampdown on the Internet and cell phones. The government has blocked certain Web sites, such as BBC Farsi, Facebook, Twitter and several pro-Mousavi sites that are vital conduits for Iranians to tell the world about protests and violence.

Text messaging, which is a primary source of spreading information in Tehran, has not been working since last week, and cell phone service in Tehran is frequently down. The government also has barred foreign news organizations from reporting on Tehran's streets.

[32VfromHell]

The phone network and the internet throttling were done within the exact timeframe of the voting. The disruption was pre-planned and the results were announced before the mandatory 3-day counting period for the ballots. The election was clearly rigged with lots of warning signs, like incumbant rallies being held within the restricted areas around voting centers, etc.

[Sgt Beavis]

The phone network and the internet throttling were done within the exact timeframe of the voting. The disruption was pre-planned and the results were announced before the mandatory 3-day counting period for the ballots. The election was clearly rigged with lots of warning signs, like incumbant rallies being held within the restricted areas around voting centers, etc.


All this appears to be true. But the question remains, will the Iranian public do something about it and CAN they do something about it. At this point, both are very much in doubt.

[88Kaufmann]

The Sarge is right:
You'll see a crackdown and a lot of deaths...

The Mullahs aren't about to give up any control.

If there is any good news to this, it is this:
The old adage "Live by the sword, Die by the sword" usually rings true at some point...

[Paladin]

Iran still appears to be in chaos this morning. I wonder if Obama is now wondering if he should have been more focused on his foreign policy and less on ramming more spending and taxes down his own people's throats?


I doubt it.

[Stang Seller]

SGT Beavis is right. Now I'm wondering if Obama is going to pull a Jimmy Carter? We're getting lots of info from the people of Iran and it's all bad. The volunteer militia is shooting people in the streets. The police are beating people with batons while riding dirt bikes, it seems like it's something out of a bad kung fu movie.
In Iran, most of the populace is under 30. Ahmadinejad has very little support among young voters, but as stated has a lot of support in the military and the backing of Khamenei. I hear it from everywhere, the young people of Iran (it seems) are not prepared to back down until they are rid of Khamenei. The Shah was a Godsend compared to these mullahs! These youths are now ridding themselves of their parents' mistake!
SS

[Denny]

SGT Beavis is right. Now I'm wondering if Obama is going to pull a Jimmy Carter? We're getting lots of info from the people of Iran and it's all bad. The volunteer militia is shooting people in the streets. The police are beating people with batons while riding dirt bikes, it seems like it's something out of a bad kung fu movie.
In Iran, most of the populace is under 30. Ahmadinejad has very little support among young voters, but as stated has a lot of support in the military and the backing of Khamenei. I hear it from everywhere, the young people of Iran (it seems) are not prepared to back down until they are rid of Khamenei. The Shah was a Godsend compared to these mullahs! These youths are now ridding themselves of their parents' mistake!
SS

Thank goodness! It's a relief to see them standing up for themselves. I hope it works to their advantage and they work towards building a better nation. ANYONE looking to better their country has my full support.

[Paladin]

Thank goodness! It's a relief to see them standing up for themselves. I hope it works to their advantage and they work towards building a better nation. ANYONE looking to better their country has my full support.


I agree it is a good thing that the people in this country are finally standing up for themselves. I hope it becomes contagious and some of the other countries in the region take notice and finally stand up for themselves also.

[Vertnut]

SGT Beavis is right. Now I'm wondering if Obama is going to pull a Jimmy Carter? We're getting lots of info from the people of Iran and it's all bad. The volunteer militia is shooting people in the streets. The police are beating people with batons while riding dirt bikes, it seems like it's something out of a bad kung fu movie.
In Iran, most of the populace is under 30. Ahmadinejad has very little support among young voters, but as stated has a lot of support in the military and the backing of Khamenei. I hear it from everywhere, the young people of Iran (it seems) are not prepared to back down until they are rid of Khamenei. The Shah was a Godsend compared to these mullahs! These youths are now ridding themselves of their parents' mistake!
SS

We've gone to WAR to free some countries, and Barry won't even speak up? What a chickenshit! Come on guys...he's a chickenshit! The POTUS, the bastian of freedom for the world, won't even VERBALLY back a movement for freedom? Barry may have thought he worked in a "war zone" (south-side Chicago), but at least Carter fought in a war...

This POTUS is a chickenshit, plain and simple.

[Mr Majestyk]

SGT Beavis is right. Now I'm wondering if Obama is going to pull a Jimmy Carter? We're getting lots of info from the people of Iran and it's all bad. The volunteer militia is shooting people in the streets. The police are beating people with batons while riding dirt bikes, it seems like it's something out of a bad kung fu movie.
In Iran, most of the populace is under 30. Ahmadinejad has very little support among young voters, but as stated has a lot of support in the military and the backing of Khamenei. I hear it from everywhere, the young people of Iran (it seems) are not prepared to back down until they are rid of Khamenei. The Shah was a Godsend compared to these mullahs! These youths are now ridding themselves of their parents' mistake!
SS

Good post SS. Your personal knowledge of Iran does give special credence to what you just said.

[Vertnut]

Good post SS. Your personal knowledge of Iran does give special credence to what you just said.

I, too, agree with this. I love his knowledge of Jimmy Carter, even though, A) He's not from this country, and B) He wasn't even born yet! That shows how generations are affected by Carter's bullshit.

[JimD]

Fuck it, when's the real shooting gonna start?

[Mr Majestyk]

I, too, agree with this. I love his knowledge of Jimmy Carter, even though, A) He's not from this country, and B) He wasn't even born yet! That shows how generations are affected by Carter's bullshit.

He too is able to independently see the similarities between Carter and Obama. His father I'm sure accurately related his own first-person experience of the Carter era and Carter's shameful abandonment of the Shah.

[Stang Seller]

I'm still hesitant to take shots at Obama, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with some of his policies. I do have my quarrels with him, but still have a great deal of faith in him. However, I really can't blame him for not wanting to repeat 1953 and also being weary of stoking the fire which is the Islamic Republic. Those mullahs will use anything they can skewer and try to pass it off as fact. They try to block the people from information and the most basic human rights, those which my country were founded upon over 2500 years ago!

The key difference that I have always maintained is that these people are first Muslims, and therefore Arabs, while those of us who are now united against them are Iranians first and foremost. It is the Muslims who advocate violence and death, it is the Iranians who are resisting by marching silently and advocating change and fair representation.

I do not think Mousavi is the man for this, he still fears the regime and is not prepared to stand against them. He just happened to echo some of the most important facets of the current cause. Thing are apparently quiet now, I am waiting as I'm sure are many others to see what will happen next. I think it will get worse before it gets better. All my family members in Iran are on edge, I'll post up once I hear back from my family since internet access seems limited right now.
SS

[5point0pony]

I agree it is a good thing that the people in this country are finally standing up for themselves. I hope it becomes contagious and some of the other countries in the region take notice and finally stand up for themselves also.

I was talking with my friend, who has half of his family in Iran, and he basically said that the media is making it seem as if the country is more divided than it actually is. He is really afraid for his family most of whom are older. His cousins, who are much younger are participating in the protest though, so he has a fairly rounded idea of what is happening. I agree with you in wishing that the movement becomes contagious but it just seems unlikely to me considering what he said.

[Sgt Beavis]

The key difference that I have always maintained is that these people are first Muslims, and therefore Arabs, while those of us who are now united against them are Iranians first and foremost. It is the Muslims who advocate violence and death, it is the Iranians who are resisting by marching silently and advocating change and fair representation.


Iranians are not Arabs. They are primarily Persians. There are very few Iranian Arabs.

The country with the most Muslims isn't even an Arab country. It is Indonesia.

In other words, Muslim does not always equate to Arab.

Just correcting a few things.. Carry on.

[Stang Seller]

Iranians are not Arabs. They are primarily Persians. There are very few Iranian Arabs.

The country with the most Muslims isn't even an Arab country. It is Indonesia.

In other words, Muslim does not always equate to Arab.

Just correcting a few things.. Carry on.

Iranians are Iranians, Persian is the name given to us by ancient Greece because of our language. What I was trying to say is that Islam is the religion of the Arabs, not of the Iranians. These fundamentalist Muslims are more Arabic than they are Iranian, they are more attached to their Arabic religion than they are to their Iranian nation. To me, they may as well be Arab conquerors from 1300 years ago. They behave the same way those Arab hordes did when they forcefully converted my people from our true religion, Zoroastrianism.
SS

[Yale]

Whatever they do, they shouldn't invite the Shah, or any of his kids back, at least not to a position of power. They need meaningful political reform.

[Sgt Beavis]

Iranians are Iranians, Persian is the name given to us by ancient Greece because of our language. What I was trying to say is that Islam is the religion of the Arabs, not of the Iranians. These fundamentalist Muslims are more Arabic than they are Iranian, they are more attached to their Arabic religion than they are to their Iranian nation. To me, they may as well be Arab conquerors from 1300 years ago. They behave the same way those Arab hordes did when they forcefully converted my people from our true religion, Zoroastrianism.
SS

OIC. That makes sense.

[Vertnut]

Iranians are Iranians, Persian is the name given to us by ancient Greece because of our language. What I was trying to say is that Islam is the religion of the Arabs, not of the Iranians. These fundamentalist Muslims are more Arabic than they are Iranian, they are more attached to their Arabic religion than they are to their Iranian nation. To me, they may as well be Arab conquerors from 1300 years ago. They behave the same way those Arab hordes did when they forcefully converted my people from our true religion, Zoroastrianism.
SS

Now I know where our buddy Zarathushtra gets his handle.:147:

[cannonball996]

I heard so many people this past sunday who were mad at Obama for not doing anything about the situation in Iran. and I think the Iranian election is not something the US should really get involved with.

[Mr Majestyk]

You don't think Ahmadinejad strongly preferred Obama over McCain in the U.S. election?

[Sgt Beavis]

I heard so many people this past sunday who were mad at Obama for not doing anything about the situation in Iran. and I think the Iranian election is not something the US should really get involved with.

Yea, all he can do is wag his finger. Not much else. GW woudn't have done anything either.

You don't think Ahmadinejad strongly preferred Obama over McCain in the U.S. election?

President Obama has been a "lets play nice" pussy. There is no reason for Iran to come to the table. They basically hold all the cards. The President is in a weak position to negotiate anything. At least with GW there was a REAL threat that he would bomb the shit out of their nuke sites. I'm not saying that would be the best option, but the Iranians would have at least taken that as a credible threat.

[Vertnut]

Yea, all he can do is wag his finger. Not much else. GW woudn't have done anything either.



President Obama has been a "lets play nice" pussy. There is no reason for Iran to come to the table. They basically hold all the cards. The President is in a weak position to negotiate anything. At least with GW there was a REAL threat that he would bomb the shit out of their nuke sites. I'm not saying that would be the best option, but the Iranians would have at least taken that as a credible threat.

Had they held our hostages a week longer in '81, Ronnie would have dealt them some nastiness with a quickness. We wouldn't have this now, had he done that.

[Sean88gt]

I think the religious leaders attacking the civilians will backfire.

I'm just waiting for Obama to offer up troops to silence the 'rebels'

[mikeb]

NEWS FLASH: Apparently some of the revolutionary guard are beginning to defect. This whole deal just got a hell of a lot more interesting. I think some shit is about to happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/22/navy-hangs-persian-gulf-questions-mount-defecting-iranian-revolutionary-guard/

[5point0pony]

NEWS FLASH: Apparently some of the revolutionary guard are beginning to defect. This whole deal just got a hell of a lot more interesting. I think some shit is about to happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/22/navy-hangs-persian-gulf-questions-mount-defecting-iranian-revolutionary-guard/

Wow! It seems that the snow ball just keeps getting bigger. I wonder what the tipping point will be.

[MadMax404m]

I wonder what the tipping point will be.

Something tells me we're watching it

[Paladin]

I was talking with my friend, who has half of his family in Iran, and he basically said that the media is making it seem as if the country is more divided than it actually is. He is really afraid for his family most of whom are older. His cousins, who are much younger are participating in the protest though, so he has a fairly rounded idea of what is happening. I agree with you in wishing that the movement becomes contagious but it just seems unlikely to me considering what he said.

My hope that people who have one of the oldest and still most primitive societies will actually become civil and decent is there, but is actually very small. They have enough resources to be all wealthy, yet only a select few have wealth and the rest live in poverty.

Yeah, when that part of the world lectures us we should really listen to them! :confused2:

[Sgt Beavis]

I would take that Fox report with a grain of salt simply because accurate reports from Iran are hard to come by.

However, that is a ray of hope.

[Stang Seller]

I don't think this movement carries enough weight to go ahead successfully. In 1978-79, the Shah said that he refused to order his military and officers to shoot people in the streets. He refused to take the life of innocent Iranians, because he was a true Iranian patriot.

I think this current situation will be smothered by the Islamic Regime, but only temporarily. This will cause a large enough amount of people to become emboldened and willing to take up arms. Nobody wants to die a senseless death, but one day soon people are going to start fighting fire with fire. What this boils down to is a lack of leadership. We Iranians do not have a strong enough leader who will lead us into battle, one who can at least promise us the opportunity of victory. As it stands now, there is nobody. If only Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi were around today........... :(
SS

[Stang Seller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6XGwmOlMdk

[mikeb]

CNN is reporting that clerics are marching now.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/23/iran.protest.faces/index.html

:popcorn:

[Zarathustra]

Good thread..

Some very interesting things happening in Iran these days, many of which the truth as to their origin might never come out. There is hope. There seems to be a large body of information leaking out regarding the legitimacy of the election, as well as how and where many of the protesters received their motivation to dissent and protest.

What role do you guys think any external interests might have played in all the civil unrest?

It seems the whole thing has turned into a color revolution type of event that is reminiscent of the earlier attempts at regime change for authoritarian rulers.

I'm not necessarily saying that the election was completely and totally legitimate, but many questions are raised in my mind when the flip side of the media/establishment logic presents itself. I can't help but to think that in order to garner this kind of situation, outside interests may have made efforts to undermine the Iranian regime by pushing all the right buttons to incite these public protests. After all, there has been, since 2005, a covert campaign spearheaded by the western intelligence establishment to do just that, undermine the Iranian regime. Perhaps all this is just it's logical conclusion?

Discuss, and please keep in mind, I am only exploring every possible avenue of thought regarding the situation. I do not side with the Islamic theocracy set in place, knowing that many Iranians are not happy with their current system of government. But at the same time, efforts have been underway for some time with the main goal of regime change from within. Creating unrest and inciting violent protests, dividing the masses and pitting them against each other with hopes of inciting a coup seems to be a pretty common avenue for outside interests to achieve the same end through alternative means. Given the track record of western intelligence agencies, the possibility of western meddling in Iranian affairs, yet again, seems pretty likely. On the other hand, many people do think Ahmadinejad does need to go, but consider the possibility that the election was in fact legitimate, and that the aggregate opinion of the people of Iran have been adequately represented in electing Ahmadinejad. Consider the role western entities may have played in creating the catalyst for all these people to crowd the streets...?

As well, I am completely against a theocratic government based on any religion.

Consider
http://infowars.net/articles/june2008/300608Iran_Covert.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_revolution
http://www.prisonplanet.com/neo-cons-are-cheerleading-for-a-terrorist-who-helped-kill-hundreds-of-us-marines.html

Keep in mind I do not subscribe to every idea included in these links, I just pay particularly close attention to the questions that are raised after reading them.

[Stang Seller]

Of course there is western involvement, this is reminiscent of 1953 when the people were already rolling towards a coup of the Mossadegh government that the western agencies just helped nudge in the right direction. The youth of Iran have been trying to garner change for at least a decade now, look up Ahmad Batebi if you must.

It is quite obvious that the election was fraudulent, it is not just Tehran but in many other cities around the country that people are pouring into the streets to protest. And they are being murdered by these despicable 'protectors of the revolution'!! This cannot continue, Obama MUST stand up and at least firmly state that he is WITH the PEOPLE of Iran, that he is AGAINST infringement of any human rights.

I have to ask that if any of you Americans are truly WITH a people trying to rid themselves of oppression, that you please send an email, or some show of support for the Iranian people, to your local Statesman. This is in the best interests of America, and it is in the best interests of the world. If you're still not convinced about how oppressive these animals are, just look up NEDA on youtube. She was murdered in the streets, just a pretty young woman wanting a future just like the rest of us. We can't sit idly by while this happens, please stand up for us, we need your help America.
SS

[Mr Majestyk]

SS,

Wasn't she murdered by common criminals who were not operatives of the government?

Don't expect much in the way of firm statements from Obama.

[Stang Seller]

She was murdered by Basij militia, they are funded by but not an official government agency. She was shot by a Basij sharpshooter, the government has issued a statement saying that she was shot accidentally due to mistaken identity. They believed that she was the sister of an already murdered reformist! How fucked up is that?

[Mr Majestyk]

Quasi-governmental then.....disgusting.

Digusting, and of course tragic.

[Bubbaearl]

so now the evil empire is suppose to come help. is that what your saying ? should we help them the same way they helped us when our people were herded into the street blindfolded . every damn time something happens it's the evil americans who are behind it. we hear the same shit from little dick in korea as we hear from imajewhater . i'm an old bastard and i've lived with this crap for years while watching my tax dollars go to help those who hate us. bush should have left sadam to hell alone and let him handle it. nothing will ever change in that part of the world .

[Stang Seller]

See, what you're failing to understand or see is that not all Iranians hate America. Not all Iranians, actually only very few Iranians, call America the Great Satan. Not all Iranians hate Israel. Those people you see in the streets, now chanting 'Death to Khamenei' and 'down with the dictator' are the people who mostly like America. These are the youth of Iran, and they are fighting against this medieval regime to be free. They don't view America as the evil empire.

It is only the Islamic fundamentalists, those corrupt mullahs, those who steal my countries oil revenues and send money to fund Hezbollah and other Islamic groups, instead of putting money into our own education and other infrastructure. Inflation is through the roof, the Iranian economy has been in shambles for a LONG time, women have no rights, when young men speak out they either go missing or catch a hell of a beating.

What you fail to see is that things did change in that part of the world, 30 years ago. They are now on the brink of changing back. Do a little reading on America's relations, and of the entire world, with Iran under the Shah!
SS

[Paladin]

It appears that some who hated Bush for his reactions (which appeared very strong, emphatic, and prompt) in similar situations are now questioning Obama when he is doing nearly the polar opposite of Bush (weak, delayed, and very meek).


//someone imbed some circus music up in heerra//

[Stang Seller]

It appears that some who hated Bush for his reactions (which appeared very strong, emphatic, and prompt) in similar situations are now questioning Obama when he is doing nearly the polar opposite of Bush (weak, delayed, and very meek).


//someone imbed some circus music up in heerra//

Bush is an idiot, and I'm not criticizing Obama for ANYTHING other than his reaction to Iran. Bush probably would have used this as an excuse to say Nucular again, he would do nothing to better the situation in Iran. A tyrant condemning tyrants??? LOL

[Paladin]

Bush is an idiot, and I'm not criticizing Obama for ANYTHING other than his reaction to Iran. Bush probably would have used this as an excuse to say Nucular again, he would do nothing to better the situation in Iran. A tyrant condemning tyrants??? LOL

It didn't take long for the Bush and America hating guy to respond, did it?

How do you SPECIFICALLY propose we respond to the situation in Iran if both Bush and Obama are/were wrong according to you?

[Stang Seller]

I happen to be sitting at the computer, browsing other Mustang forums and news from Iran and just kicking back since today was a holiday...... Of course I can respond quickly!

I SPECIFICALLY think that all Obama needs to do is openly condemn the regime and tell the people of Iran that he supports their cause. That is all. The people can do the rest. After all, didn't 'WE THE PEOPLE' do something similar? Start with words, not gunfire. For then we shall be no different from them.

[Sean88gt]

I happen to be sitting at the computer, browsing other Mustang forums and news from Iran and just kicking back since today was a holiday...... Of course I can respond quickly!

I SPECIFICALLY think that all Obama needs to do is openly condemn the regime and tell the people of Iran that he supports their cause. That is all. The people can do the rest. After all, didn't 'WE THE PEOPLE' do something similar? Start with words, not gunfire. For then we shall be no different from them.

Obama will do nothing. He's stated, in a gaurded manner, how bad it is. But other than that, he won't do what is needed. He'll bitch out.

Notice the pissy attitude on display here:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uyDpoy-8PSE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uyDpoy-8PSE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hopefully the rubes in the media will wake up.

[Stang Seller]

The following email in Farsi we received today (Wednesday 24th june). It is written by a doctor from “Rasul Akram” hospital in Tehran who says that some people were killed not only by one bullet as they found two or three bullets in some bodies, close to one another, showing that shooters used barrage shooting against people and not only a single shot. A 68 year old man had 3 bullets inhis body, two on his left shoulder and one in the left side of his stomach. The doctors of the “Rasul Akram”hospital say they had been faced with 38 people killed during last week’s protests. Apparently, police took the corpse of the dead bodies out from the hospital and carried them away by truck. Most of their families still do not know if their children have been killed. Besides, among the corpse there were some 15, 16 years old kids.

According to the email, the crew of the hospital protested in the street next to the hospital giving out the information about the violence to the people. The photos attached are from this demonstration which appears to have taken place earlier this week.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4796_103038212889_18297877889_2605939_4738759_n.jp g
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4796_103038252889_18297877889_2605940_8022659_n.jp g
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4796_103038287889_18297877889_2605941_3588100_n.jp g
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4796_103038337889_18297877889_2605943_7026651_n.jp g
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4796_103038377889_18297877889_2605945_1387812_n.jp g

[Denny]

Keep Bush and Obama out of the situation. For Christ's sake, we have a people who are standing up for themselves because they see the blatant fraud that their president and "supreme leader" actually are. This is what we want! We want nations that are over run by dictators that bring their society down, to exercise their right to better themselves and be accountable for their own wants and needs.

More power to the Iranians! Clean house! Utilize America if needed, but it is great to see someone wiping their own ass for once. I just wish the best for Iran and hope other oppressed nations take note and follow suit.

[Paladin]

I happen to be sitting at the computer, browsing other Mustang forums and news from Iran and just kicking back since today was a holiday...... Of course I can respond quickly!

I SPECIFICALLY think that all Obama needs to do is openly condemn the regime and tell the people of Iran that he supports their cause. That is all. The people can do the rest. After all, didn't 'WE THE PEOPLE' do something similar? Start with words, not gunfire. For then we shall be no different from them.

I think Bush and his administration would have done exactly what you recommend. That's just my opinion though.

[Paladin]

Obama will do nothing. He's stated, in a gaurded manner, how bad it is. But other than that, he won't do what is needed. He'll bitch out.

Notice the pissy attitude on display here:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uyDpoy-8PSE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uyDpoy-8PSE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hopefully the rubes in the media will wake up.

I think it is very telling that he got so pissy when he was finally confronted by a FEW tough questions. Imagine how it will be when the media finally gets over this honeymoon crap they have with him.

[Bubbaearl]

i don't want one fucking dime of our money going to do anything in iran . fuck them. we've had 30 years of shit from that place and should have leveled the place when they attacked our embassy . it is after all the same as our soil. jimmy carter was a dumb fuck coward for not giving them 24 hrs to release our people and then sending in air power . don't whine to me about it take your ass home and do it yourself. they want to play cowboys and muslims fine so be it. i'm an american and damn proud of it . i want that fucking imajewhater to declare war on us . then and only then will the dumb bastard find out who are the most fearsome people on this planet. within 24 hrs there would be no iranian army . enough is enough.

[Zarathustra]

i don't want one fucking dime of our money going to do anything in iran .

Capitalization owns you.

How about ~$400 million?
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/cia-has-distributed-400-million-dollars-inside-iran-to-evoke-a-revolution/

That's 4 BeeeeLLION dimes.

[Paladin]

Capitalization owns you.

How about ~$400 million?
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/cia-has-distributed-400-million-dollars-inside-iran-to-evoke-a-revolution/

That's 4 BeeeeLLION dimes.

He didn't say no money was going to Iran, he said he didn't want any money going to Iran. Hell, I don't either.

[Bubbaearl]

why would i give a damn what he thinks ? and he can count too. if you cant read without capital letters go back to school .

[Zarathustra]

why would i give a damn what he thinks ? and he can count too. if you cant read without capital letters go back to school .

:eek2:

[Slowhand]

i don't want one fucking dime of our money going to do anything in iran . fuck them. we've had 30 years of shit from that place and should have leveled the place when they attacked our embassy . it is after all the same as our soil. jimmy carter was a dumb fuck coward for not giving them 24 hrs to release our people and then sending in air power . don't whine to me about it take your ass home and do it yourself. they want to play cowboys and muslims fine so be it. i'm an american and damn proud of it . i want that fucking imajewhater to declare war on us . then and only then will the dumb bastard find out who are the most fearsome people on this planet. within 24 hrs there would be no iranian army . enough is enough.

Have you ever thought about using your brain? The Iranian people are not what caused the issues we've had with Iran for the past 30 years; the Iranian government is. They've had a small group of centralized power in a government in which the people have no say for far too long and the Iranian citizens are finally getting around to doing something about it.

These are the types of things we need to be funding. This is a situation where we can be of help without putting American lives on the line to fight someone else's war. This is a regime that the US wants to fall and if all we have to do is commit funds and sit back and let the people of Iran take care of it, then I'd reckon that we probably should.

Avoiding conflict and spending a small amount of money now > Creating conflict and spending lots of money now and later and further degrading the world's perception of this country.

[Bubbaearl]

it was the young college age people who started all this shit 30 years ago. what makes you think it's any different now ? screw sending them money to just fuck up things again. read your history. they do not want to live in peace. they want to be the all powerful nation they think they should be . they've all but destroyed all the things built in the 60's 70's . oil production is down because they refuse to maintain anything. if you want to wet nurse them take the next flight out with your checkbook. my vote goes for leaving them alone let them implode . our country is in the mess it's in because of trying to wet nurse morons who can not govern themselves . pick a country and some moron congressman has pushed a bill through to support them . we simply can not continue to support the world. jmho and my brain is none of your business , worry about your own.

[Ylw 98~~SNAKE~~]

we definately do not have the right person leading this country. I hope there is something left of it when the Obama admin is done.