Need a little advice...

[HOOCBB]

I'm normally not one to come on here asking for advice, but I feel the need to get some opinions on how to handle something.

First, this is in the armory because it deals with carrying my firearm.

That said, I found out last week that my company is moving to another building. No big deal right? Well, I found out today that a murder took place at that building in Dec 2006.

This murder was featured in season 6 of The First 48 on A&E. A lady was riding down the elevator leaving work. Her killer was riding the same elevator and followed her out the door where he shot her in the back of the head, then in the front of the head, and 1 more shot after he could not get her bag.

Currently, our employee handbook bans weapons and ammo in the workplace and goes as far as to ban them from our personal vehicles. I need opinions on how to quietly request a removal of this ban and obtain permission to carry my pistol while at work. I don't like to be limited to where I can defend myself and possibly others.

[Pokulski-Blatz]

Voice your concern to your boss. Try to make it sound like it would be a good thing for everyone. If boss says nope, carry anyway. If its not 30.06 posted all they can do is fire you. Is your job worth more than you life?

[HOOCBB]

Voice your concern to your boss. Try to make it sound like it would be a good thing for everyone. If boss says nope, carry anyway. If its not 30.06 posted all they can do is fire you. Is your job worth more than you life?

I've had to ask myself this when I decided to knowingly violate company policy and keep my pistol in the car while at work.

BTW, if the boss says no, I can be arrested for violating PC 30.06. Verbal notice is as good as posting the sign. Maybe it's better that I don't ask and just do it.

[ace2985]

You are not able to carry in the workplace if your employer prohibits it. I would suggest parking in another parking lot and keeping the weapon in your car or just keep it in your car at your work. Your employer is not going to search your car.

[Pokulski-Blatz]

I've had to ask myself this when I decided to knowingly violate company policy and keep my pistol in the car while at work.

BTW, if the boss says no, I can be arrested for violating PC 30.06. Verbal notice is as good as posting the sign. Maybe it's better that I don't ask and just do it.


Not correct, Pulled off texaschlforum.com

You need to do a bit more research and soul-searching.

Our Texas laws are, for the most part, written with specificity.

If your company's policy is "no unauthorized firearms blah blah blah" then you can't be immediately charged with criminal trespass, but you can be summarily fired. In Texas, a "will to work" state, you can be fired for anything so long as the reason is not class-based, like age or race.

If your company's policy is written in correct 30.06 language, you can be arrested and charged with criminal trespass. Not good.

My former employer, a Fortune 500, had us acknowledge every year that we had been "told" the company policies. This meant that we had been given notice under 30.06. We, too, could have been arrested and charged with criminal trespass. Not good.

[8mpg]

did you move to the ghetto or something? Just because a murder (sounds planned) was committed somewhere doesnt mean it will happen again. Im sure the guy was arrested and in jail. Do you think the same guy is going to come get you too after he is out of jail?

I hate to sounds like an asshole about it...but what sparked your interest just now in changing policies? Homicides happen everywhere... You cannot fear going to work at a new building just because someone was murdered there before. Now if you moved into Oak Cliff in a shitty area, that is another story.

[Chopped54]

Was this the one off Greenville Ave? That area is pretty rough, actually has one of the highest crime rates in Dallas.

[5_star_mike]

What good is keeping it in the car going to do? You said the prior incident occurred once the lady exited the elevator, if you don't have it on your person it won't help in a similar situation.

[EW]

Wasn't the killer a former boyfriend, husband, etc?
I don't know if it is legal in texas for your employer to ban firearms in your car in their parking lot.

[ace2985]

Your right a firearm in the car is useless if someone starts a rampage in the building but 99% of employers will not allow them in the work place. I have worked for a couple companies that won't but will allow it in the car. The employer has the right to ban them at your job but if your employer moves to a bad area and they still won't change their policy your best bet is to leave it in the car or find a new job.

[HOOCBB]

Was this the one off Greenville Ave? That area is pretty rough, actually has one of the highest crime rates in Dallas.

Yep. I'd just prefer to not place myself in a position where I am unable to defend myself.

Not correct, Pulled off texaschlforum.com

I don't think you fully understand that post.

I understand that just because my employer has a "policy" that says no firearms and ammo, it in itself is not consistant with PC 30.06. HOWEVER, if I go ask my boss and he verbally says, "No Guns", that IS as effective as posting the sign and I CAN be arrested


PC 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Govemment Code, on property of another without effective
consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the
owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the
owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder has the meaning assigned by Section
46.035(9.
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language
identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code
(trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person
licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Govemment Code (concealed
handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed
handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both
English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to
the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property
on which the license holder cames a handgun is owned or leased
by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which
the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under
Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[HOOCBB]

did you move to the ghetto or something? Just because a murder (sounds planned) was committed somewhere doesnt mean it will happen again. Im sure the guy was arrested and in jail. Do you think the same guy is going to come get you too after he is out of jail?

I hate to sounds like an asshole about it...but what sparked your interest just now in changing policies? Homicides happen everywhere... You cannot fear going to work at a new building just because someone was murdered there before. Now if you moved into Oak Cliff in a shitty area, that is another story.

Greenville and NW Hwy. I never liked where we are now as I rolled up on the drug deal late one night not too long after I first started here.

The killer did not specifically target this lady until she got on the elevator with him and had a bag he thought had a laptop.

I'm not paranoid about the same guy doing this again. He was convicted of Capital Murder and was sentenced to life without parole. I do not fear going to work, I would just prefer that I have the ability to defend myself and anyone else if so needed.

[David]

My life is greater than my job. Id carry a gun in my truck and even on me while at work even if the "handbook" said no.

[Pokulski-Blatz]

Yep. I'd just prefer to not place myself in a position where I am unable to defend myself.



I don't think you fully understand that post.

I understand that just because my employer has a "policy" that says no firearms and ammo, it in itself is not consistant with PC 30.06. HOWEVER, if I go ask my boss and he verbally says, "No Guns", that IS as effective as posting the sign and I CAN be arrested

You are correct. I misunderstood.

[Chopped54]

Yeah, that area is bad. It is called Five Points, had over 350 reports of violent crime last year.

[GhostTX]

Or if you signed the employee handbook (or equivalent) that says you read all the rules (and that includes no guns). That would fall under the written communication.

[HOOCBB]

Or if you signed the employee handbook (or equivalent) that says you read all the rules (and that includes no guns). That would fall under the written communication.

The thing about that is the handbook has to be worded exactly as the law states. The only real question is what the signature page said. If it said that the policies were explained, it may then fall under verbal notice.

[Chopped54]

Bottom line, if you have your CHL you may get fired, you are not going to get arrested. Throw it in a backpack, dont raise any suspicion and you should be fine.
The chances of anything happening in the same building are slim. My mom works in the area, has for 10 years. She carries, but has never had any instance where she had to use it. Someone did try to steal her truck. I would be more concerned with property then a violent crime.

[flashstang04]

With the options of really good small firearms like LCPs, etc. there is no reason why you can't carry one completely undetected. If there is no 30.06 the only way your boss should ever even find out that you have it is because you just saved his ass with it.

Thats my .02

[HOOCBB]

With the options of really good small firearms like LCPs, etc. there is no reason why you can't carry one completely undetected. If there is no 30.06 the only way your boss should ever even find out that you have it is because you just saved his ass with it.

Thats my .02

Everyone has good points. Thanks guys. I suppose I need to look a snubby revolver to slip in my pocket and perhaps carry my Glock 26 on my ankle.

Thanks again guys, you've all helped me think through this better.

[Cobra Commander]

Maybe look at carrying one of those Tazer International stun guns. Not the one that the police carry but the civillian type that doesn't look like a gun. It should get you by until you reach your vehicle. Let me know if you want one.

[Fast Fox]

A law officer friend of mine once told me, " I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

[BOOSTED32V]

Sounds like your're being paranoid to me, but it all depends on your job, can you get another one if you get fired for carrying. All it takes is one snitch, you might tell someone, somebody might give you a 'how ya doin hug' and feel it or you might take it off in the restroom, etc. If you really care about your surroundings that much, you might want to find another job in better part of the city.

[Claircom]

We have the same issue at my workplace.. Our Employee Handbook was drafted around our manufacturing facility in a different state, and not specific to "other offices around the country" - Dallas being one of them. Since I run the Dallas office, I chose not to post signage compliant to 30.06 , and our signature page states that you have read the handbook (not necessarily understood every line item). Regardless, maybe a different situation since I don't mind if my CHL's carry onsite. As long as they aren't ass-hats about it (leaving on the desk, showing customers, printing, scaring the pretty girls down the hall, etc, etc).

For what's it worth, the guys respect the unwritten rules.. We discussed the handbook in January, and I asked that they not question (verbally) the policy on carrying a weapon. No verbal warning and no signage = no policy.

As yourself what's best for you and your well being. If you can't live without your gun for 8-hours a day, or feel comprimised, then get an LCP of Kel-Tec for your pocket gun :) I travel quite a bit, so (obviously) I am without my weapon anytime I pass airport security. Not worth checking a bag IMHO, and/or filling out the paperwork.

[HOOCBB]

We have the same issue at my workplace.. Our Employee Handbook was drafted around our manufacturing facility in a different state, and not specific to "other offices around the country" - Dallas being one of them. Since I run the Dallas office, I chose not to post signage compliant to 30.06 , and our signature page states that you have read the handbook (not necessarily understood every line item). Regardless, maybe a different situation since I don't mind if my CHL's carry onsite. As long as they aren't ass-hats about it (leaving on the desk, showing customers, printing, scaring the pretty girls down the hall, etc, etc).

For what's it worth, the guys respect the unwritten rules.. We discussed the handbook in January, and I asked that they not question (verbally) the policy on carrying a weapon. No verbal warning and no signage = no policy.

As yourself what's best for you and your well being. If you can't live without your gun for 8-hours a day, or feel comprimised, then get an LCP of Kel-Tec for your pocket gun :) I travel quite a bit, so (obviously) I am without my weapon anytime I pass airport security. Not worth checking a bag IMHO, and/or filling out the paperwork.

Thanks for your input. I'm going to ask HR if they have a full copy of the handbook so I can take a peak at the signature page.