Imagine that.. another Obamanation screw up.

[CoorsLightCoupe]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/20/obama.cia/index.html

(CNN) -- President Obama on Monday will visit CIA headquarters amid criticism from an ex-CIA chief that he compromised national security last week by releasing Bush-era memos on interrogation tactics.


President Obama will speak Monday with the workforce at the CIA headquarters.

The president will meet with CIA Director Leon Panetta, Deputy Director Stephen Kappes and other officials and also will talk to employees about the importance of the agency's mission to national security.

Obama's visit comes a day after former CIA Director Michael Hayden said the decision to release the four memos undermined the work the agency is doing.

Hayden, President Bush's CIA director from 2006 to 2009, said the release of the memos emboldens terrorist groups such as al Qaeda.

"What we have described for our enemies in the midst of a war are the outer limits that any American would ever go to in terms of interrogating an al Qaeda terrorist. That's very valuable information," Hayden said on "Fox News Sunday."

"By taking techniques off the table, we have made it more difficult in a whole host of circumstances I can imagine, more difficult for CIA officers to defend the nation."

He added, "If you look at what this really comprises, if you look at the documents that have been made public, it says top secret at the top. The definition of top secret is information which, if revealed, would cause grave harm to U.S. security."

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White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel dismissed the assertion that the release of the memos undermine U.S. intelligence efforts, saying the information was no secret.

"One of the reasons the president was willing to let this information out was that already the information was out," Emanuel said Sunday on ABC's "This Week." "So if they're saying that you basically have exposed something, it's been written. Go get the New York Review of Books. It's there."

Obama said last week that withholding the memos "would only serve to deny facts that have been in the public domain for some time." Watch for details on the interrogation techniques »

"This could contribute to an inaccurate accounting of the past and fuel erroneous and inflammatory assumptions about actions taken by the United States," he said in a statement.

The memos include details on terror interrogations such as waterboarding, a technique used to simulate drowning. Obama has called the method torture.

One memo showed that CIA interrogators used waterboarding at least 266 times on two top al Qaeda suspects.

The administration also has come under criticism from human rights organizations after announcing that CIA officials would not be prosecuted for past waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics.

"The president has halted the use of the interrogation techniques described in these opinions, and this administration has made clear from Day One that it will not condone torture," Attorney General Eric Holder said last week. "We are disclosing these memos consistent with our commitment to the rule of law."

The attorney general promised that officials who used such interrogation tactics would be in the clear if their actions were consistent with Justice Department legal advice under which they were operating at the time.

David Gergen, a senior political analyst for CNN, said it was crucial for the Obama administration to decide not to prosecute people in the CIA.

"Because if you're operating in the government and your superiors say something is legal, then you should be able to rely on that and not have somebody come in to you after the fact and say, 'No, no, no, no. ... Now we're going to declare that illegal after the fact,'" he said.


Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Sunday that the release of the memos is consistent with how Obama conducts government.

"It's about transparency. It's about accountability. And he released them. And on the other hand, he said to those CIA employees who were following what the Department of Justice told them they could do, they would not be subject to further prosecution, because it's also about closing this chapter so we can move on to the future," Napolitano said.

[greenbullitt]

im not surprised

[Juiceweezl]

What's the problem? Some guys crossed the line, Obama and his regime are trying to fix it so that it doesn't happen again, and they aren't going to prosecute those that did since they were following legal orders at the time. I don't see anything wrong here.

If these bastards are willing to blow themselves up for their cause, what can we gain from drowning them? Besides, if that type of torture doesn't work right away, the victims will make up whatever they feel is necessary to stop the torture. It simply doesn't work unless it works right away. If it were US operatives captured overseas and tortured, you'd all be screaming that it is unfair treatment, etc. (which you should if that were the case). If you're going to do that though, you have to play by the same rules.

Besides, I figured all of you right wing extremists, uphold the Constitution, "don't invade my privacy, and don't illegal search and seizure me" people would be happy that Obama is not supporting the Congressional proposal to form a "truth commission" to examine your fearless leader Bush's CT programs. Of course in the same breath, I'm surprised you're not screaming that the "warrantless eavesdropping" that Bush made legal doesn't constitute an illegal search and seizure. Then again, why would any of you actually use logic and acknowledge that your guy F'd up! Maybe the great Al P can explain how warrantless eavesdropping is legal and not an invasion of privacy.

[AL P]

American operatives aren't tortured? You obviously know what you are talking about. lmao

[46Tbird]

I don't like the wiretaps and I approve of torturing the shit out of people we find on battlefields firing against our troops. And American operatives are tortured every day, what planet have you been on? Remember Daniel Pearl? He was just a journalist. We have his executor in Guantanamo Bay. You got a problem with torturing that guy?

[AL P]

I don't like the wiretaps and I approve of torturing the shit out of people we find on battlefields firing against our troops. And American operatives are tortured every day, what planet have you been on? Remember Daniel Pearl? He was just a journalist. We have his executor in Guantanamo Bay. You got a problem with torturing that guy?

Don't start using all that logic on him, he gets confused.

I also don't care for the wiretap horseshit. Uh oh there I go again, destroying Weezldick's assumptions about me.

[JP135]

As soon as the ragheads observe and comply with the Geneva Convention we'll play nice-nice. Until then, if it saves American lives, torture the living shit out of 'em. What are they gonna do, cut our troops heads off? Oh yeah, they already do.

[Vertnut]

Terrorists' don't meet the "Geneva Convention" criteria...piss on 'em. Run bamboo shoots under their fingernails. If it doesn't work, a wire-wheel on a drill to skin them out, then a little dip in some mild muriatic acid (the 5% stuff should do). If that doesn't work, repeat as necessary....With enough motivation and time, I'll bet any muslim extremist can recite Einsteins "theory of relativity", whether they actually know it or not, and sound "convincing".:tongue:

[Juiceweezl]

American operatives aren't tortured? You obviously know what you are talking about. lmao

When did I say they weren't tortured? I said if they were being tortured, you'd scream that it were unfair and they shouldn't be tortured. The same goes for prisoners we capture. Oh, and if you're so opposed to the warrantless eavesdropping, why weren't you screaming about it when Bush was in office? Why didn't you cry for his impeachment and Texas to leave the union then? Funny how you'll bitch about Obama or some other liberal for something but then let one of your beloved Republicans do the same and they get a pass.

[Juiceweezl]

Terrorists' don't meet the "Geneva Convention" criteria...piss on 'em. Run bamboo shoots under their fingernails. If it doesn't work, a wire-wheel on a drill to skin them out, then a little dip in some mild muriatic acid (the 5% stuff should do). If that doesn't work, repeat as necessary....With enough motivation and time, I'll bet any muslim extremist can recite Einsteins "theory of relativity", whether they actually know it or not, and sound "convincing".:tongue:

I would agree with your method completely IF we weren't a part of adhering to the Geneva Convention. The fact that we are means we should comply. Personally, I'd rather the US come out and say, "We are not going to abide by the Genevea Convention. We will do whatever means necessary to gain information vital to the safety of our nation and our citizens." At the same time, we should only expect our troops to suffer the same if captured. Until that happens though, we should play by the rules.

Edit: Oh, and I've always thought .22 LR's to the knee caps would be quite convincing.

[Juiceweezl]

I don't like the wiretaps and I approve of torturing the shit out of people we find on battlefields firing against our troops. And American operatives are tortured every day, what planet have you been on? Remember Daniel Pearl? He was just a journalist. We have his executor in Guantanamo Bay. You got a problem with torturing that guy?

So you're saying he committed a crime for torturing Daniel Pearl??? Just asking, because if so, then you're saying we committed a crime by torturing the prisoners we had.

[Juiceweezl]

Don't start using all that logic on him, he gets confused.

I also don't care for the wiretap horseshit. Uh oh there I go again, destroying Weezldick's assumptions about me.

No, you're logic fails once again. You say someone tortures our guys and it's a crime, but if we torture it's okay??? That makes perfect sense to me.

[Vertnut]

I would agree with your method completely IF we weren't a part of adhering to the Geneva Convention. The fact that we are means we should comply. Personally, I'd rather the US come out and say, "We are not going to abide by the Genevea Convention. We will do whatever means necessary to gain information vital to the safety of our nation and our citizens." At the same time, we should only expect our troops to suffer the same if captured. Until that happens though, we should play by the rules.

Edit: Oh, and I've always thought .22 LR's to the knee caps would be quite convincing.

Terrorists' are not in uniform, and are not soldiers of a country, therefore, the Geneva Convention should not apply. Our troops have always suffered "over-the-top" torture since WW1. There are things the Viet Cong did to our people, that we wouldn't do to rabid dogs...

Yes, I think the "knee-capping" would work quite well...

[46Tbird]

So you're saying he committed a crime for torturing Daniel Pearl??? Just asking, because if so, then you're saying we committed a crime by torturing the prisoners we had.Are you equating a journalist to dirtbags caught shooting at uniformed troops?

The first one is their prisoner, the other kind are our prisoners.

They slaughter their prisoners. We use legal tactics to get information from our prisoners.

Was this a serious post?

[AL P]

When did I say they weren't tortured? I said if they were being tortured, you'd scream that it were unfair and they shouldn't be tortured. The same goes for prisoners we capture. Oh, and if you're so opposed to the warrantless eavesdropping, why weren't you screaming about it when Bush was in office? Why didn't you cry for his impeachment and Texas to leave the union then? Funny how you'll bitch about Obama or some other liberal for something but then let one of your beloved Republicans do the same and they get a pass.

Hia Guyz! I'm Weezldick and I can't make a single fucking post without engaging in hyperbole of some sort!

First of all:

"If it were US operatives captured overseas and tortured, you'd all be screaming that it is unfair treatment, etc. (which you should if that were the case)."

Second, how do you know I wasn't screaming about the whole warrantless eavesdropping? Generally speaking I am against it, however it is not really invasive nor inconvenient for me.

Third, I never said Texas should leave the union. Nice try again though, swing and a miss. Better luck at the plate next time, sport.

[AL P]

Terrorists' are not in uniform, and are not soldiers of a country, therefore, the Geneva Convention should not apply. Our troops have always suffered "over-the-top" torture since WW1. There are things the Viet Cong did to our people, that we wouldn't do to rabid dogs...

Yes, I think the "knee-capping" would work quite well...

The Geneva agreement doesn't apply to them. It is very specific in who it does and does not apply to. You have to wear a uniform is one of the qualifiers. The purpose of that portion of the agreement is to minimize civilian casualties. Guerilla fighters dressed as civilians accomplish the opposite of that, only a liberal moron would think they are covered under the agreement. We have plenty of morons who have never once read what that agreement says but think they are qualified to form an opinion.

[AL P]

No, you're logic fails once again. You say someone tortures our guys and it's a crime, but if we torture it's okay??? That makes perfect sense to me.

You are already at three strikes in this thread alone.

My opinion is actually that we are fighting an unconventional enemy. We should dispense with the idea that we can stop our people from being tortured or mistreated. Who answers for the mistreatment? Some faceless organization? Laughable. We can't stop torture and the situation is simple... war is war. I'm not saying we should cut these guys balls off but if we don't allow them to sleep or slap them around a little that is fine with me. I am even more happy with that arrangement considering what happens to our guys, some of them wish they only got slapped around.

[forever_frost]

I say waterboard the bastards in hog fat. They bitch about what college students would consider hazing and call it torture, but decapitating our soldiers, burning them and dragging them behind their cars is fine. Damned liberals.

I made a promise to a couple of my friends that none of us get taken alive.

[Juiceweezl]

You are already at three strikes in this thread alone.

My opinion is actually that we are fighting an unconventional enemy. We should dispense with the idea that we can stop our people from being tortured or mistreated. Who answers for the mistreatment? Some faceless organization? Laughable. We can't stop torture and the situation is simple... war is war. I'm not saying we should cut these guys balls off but if we don't allow them to sleep or slap them around a little that is fine with me. I am even more happy with that arrangement considering what happens to our guys, some of them wish they only got slapped around.

Amazing how you skew everything with such obscurity. I enjoyed my week plus away from here as I was busy at work. I had forgotten how moronic the majority of your opinionated posts were. It was quite enjoybable not reading your mindless babble and ducking of questions. Now, go back to flaming anyone who looks at a situation open-minded and return to the closet with your left wing extremists. Maybe you guys should all move to Monatana or something.

[AL P]

Amazing how you skew everything with such obscurity. I enjoyed my week plus away from here as I was busy at work. I had forgotten how moronic the majority of your opinionated posts were. It was quite enjoybable not reading your mindless babble and ducking of questions. Now, go back to flaming anyone who looks at a situation open-minded and return to the closet with your left wing extremists. Maybe you guys should all move to Monatana or something.

So now we are left wing extremists! lol

Oh dear, I have hurt your feelings or something. I was wondering where you were last week as I cherish every tear soaked post of yours. The outlandish accusations, the obvious lack of logic and the terrible assumptions.

Where exactly is Monatana anyway?

[Fox466]

It was quite enjoybable not reading your mindless babble and ducking of questions. ... Maybe you guys should all move to Monatana or something.


Is enjoybable anything at all like physcobabble? Or is that closer to just regular old babble? Is this something that you learn to use properly in Monatana?

[AL P]

Is enjoybable anything at all like physcobabble? Or is that closer to just regular old babble? Is this something that you learn to use properly in Monatana?

I just can't get over the left wing extremists thing. He can't even get that right.

[MR TINFOIL HAT]

Well since you can't trust ANYTHING the government tells you, I say it's just another ploy to stir up "Obama did this" "Bush did that" type of pointless chatter. They will keep everyone occupied with this side show bullshit, while they continue taking away our rights from a angle that 97% of the sheep won't even notice or disagree.

[mikeb]

The only reason that these memos were leaked was to embarrass the bush administration.

That's it.

That's all the dems want. They are so fixated on hating anything that bush did that they would endanger the US intelligence community to reveal this info and use it to make political capital.

The next time (and there will be a next time) the US is under some kind of terrorist threat i'd like to know what tactics obama plans to use. IMO they've shot themselves in the foot. The only thing they have left in the old arsenal is to shoot the bad guys with water pistols, or maybe give them a wedgie.

Maybe obama can "talk" to the terrorists and get them to reveal all LOL.......

[Fox466]

I just can't get over the left wing extremists thing. He can't even get that right.


Saw that too and figured working that in would have been too over the top... :147:


He's worse than gpampers, if there is such a thing. Quite possibly THE biggest dumbass to ever grace our pages. But then again there was that douche from Duncanville or wherever the hell it was that called you out those years ago.

Sounds like a thread. "Who's the biggest douche ever?" Damn but couldn't that get brutal with a quickness...



And agreed with you Mike. That is absolutely the only reason, and they (the liberal elite) could give a rats ass if the country is compromised as all they have to do is blame it on Bush, at which point the idiots like [insert x here] eat it up wholesale because they can't think for themselves...

[JP135]

Did anyone hear that former VP Cheney is calling for the results of the interrogations be released as well, so the nice folks out there in la-la land can see the results of these horrible "torture" sessions. Somehow I bet that gets stonewalled and never released.

[Juiceweezl]

So now we are left wing extremists! lol

Oh dear, I have hurt your feelings or something. I was wondering where you were last week as I cherish every tear soaked post of yours. The outlandish accusations, the obvious lack of logic and the terrible assumptions.

Where exactly is Monatana anyway?

Clearly you've never heard of jest. I'm the one who lacks logic??? You're the one who can't understand a noted position and the obvious fact that your party LOST the election. That's the sad part about it all. Yet you call me the moron. I hope you have another 7 years and 9 months worth of illogical arguments and more rants about Dems in your arsenal. You're going to need every bit of it.

[Juiceweezl]

Did anyone hear that former VP Cheney is calling for the results of the interrogations be released as well, so the nice folks out there in la-la land can see the results of these horrible "torture" sessions. Somehow I bet that gets stonewalled and never released.

And if someone publishes that information was gained, you'll believe every bit of that too huh? I mean heck, they couldn't have already had that information from somewhere/someone else could they? You'd eat that up if it were published and yet you say the Dems are sheep for believing what they read in the media.

[AL P]

Clearly you've never heard of jest. I'm the one who lacks logic??? You're the one who can't understand a noted position and the obvious fact that your party LOST the election. That's the sad part about it all. Yet you call me the moron. I hope you have another 7 years and 9 months worth of illogical arguments and more rants about Dems in your arsenal. You're going to need every bit of it.

As long as you keep posting here it looks like I am going to have 7 years and 9 months of fabulous entertainment. :banana:

[Juiceweezl]

Is enjoybable anything at all like physcobabble? Or is that closer to just regular old babble? Is this something that you learn to use properly in Monatana?

I just hope your tin foil hat is comfy since you're going to be wearing it another 7 plus years.

[Juiceweezl]

As long as you keep posting here it looks like I am going to have 7 years and 9 months of fabulous entertainment. :banana:

Well said, as long as you find your crying about our government entertaining. At least you're beginning to come to terms with reality. Admission is the first step to being cured.

[Denny]

Well said, as long as you find your crying about our government entertaining. At least you're beginning to come to terms with reality. Admission is the first step to being cured.

Are you truly happy with this Obama Administration?

Do you understand the valuable information that has come from some heavy interregation? People like you are some of the reasons we're still out in this crappy desert! Think of all the time/money/lives we could have saved if the government would just let the militarydo its job in the first place. Even under Cheney, if this war wouldn't have met Liberal opposition AFTER they gave the go-ahead, this whole ordeal would have been a lot less painless.

EVERYTHING Bush's Administration did to fight our greatest threat has met Liberal opposition... fucking Democratic Terrorism is on the rise.

[Juiceweezl]

Are you truly happy with this Obama Administration?

Do you understand the valuable information that has come from some heavy interregation? People like you are some of the reasons we're still out in this crappy desert! Think of all the time/money/lives we could have saved if the government would just let the militarydo its job in the first place. Even under Cheney, if this war wouldn't have met Liberal opposition AFTER they gave the go-ahead, this whole ordeal would have been a lot less painless.

EVERYTHING Bush's Administration did to fight our greatest threat has met Liberal opposition... fucking Democratic Terrorism is on the rise.

Am I happy with the administration? Yes, so far I am. The administration is doing something different besides steering us into a black hole like the Bush administration was doing. I disagree with some of the decisions, but as a whole, I'm happy to see something different being done. I'm also happy to see some transparency. The Bush Administration used 9/11 as a "free pass" to do whatever it wanted. There was zero accountability, no budget, everything deemed "top secret," etc. At least the Obama Administration is being out in the open about stuff so that you guys (and others) can call him out on it. If it fails, then everyone will know it and he will not be re-elected. Succeed or fail, at least we'll know what is happening which I can't say for the past administration.

As for the interregation, I stated my position earlier in this thread. I wish we'd say screw the rules and let everyone know that we'll do whatever it takes to keep our people and our country safe. Then, we could do whatever we want to gain information. My personal preference is a .22 LR to the knee cap as I stated. As it is though, we are a part of a higher code/law and should abide by the rules. We expect our prisoners to be treated fairly (whether they are or not is a different story) and should do the same in return as long as we expect otherwise. If we were willing to say, "F the rules," then again, I'm all for kicking butt.

[Mr Majestyk]

I just hope your tin foil hat is comfy since you're going to be wearing it another 7 plus years.

If the Obama administration and the current Congressional makeup is granted another seven years, this country really is on the road to decades of decline and indebtedness. Even Jimmy Earl Carter, a man Obama emulates quite well, was only granted four years to fuck things up worse than any president in the past 60 years.

[Vertnut]

If the Obama administration and the current Congressional makeup is granted another seven years, this country really is on the road to decades of decline and indebtedness. Even Jimmy Earl Carter, a man Obama emulates quite well, was only granted four years to fuck things up worse than any president in the past 60 years.

Adolph Fidel Obama makes Carter look like Barry Goldwater...

[Geor!]

Am I happy with the administration? Yes, so far I am. The administration is doing something different besides steering us into a black hole like the Bush administration was doing.

Yep, you're right. Now he's just spending us into a different black hole, all the while, upholding most of the same foreign policies Bush introduced. Why is it that he gets a pass on it, while Bush was ostracized his entire time in office? Then there's that whole Hugo Chavez and Daniel Ortega incident that occurred over the weekend, but I guess that's alright, too.

I disagree with some of the decisions, but as a whole, I'm happy to see something different being done. I'm also happy to see some transparency. The Bush Administration used 9/11 as a "free pass" to do whatever it wanted. There was zero accountability, no budget, everything deemed "top secret," etc. At least the Obama Administration is being out in the open about stuff so that you guys (and others) can call him out on it. If it fails, then everyone will know it and he will not be re-elected. Succeed or fail, at least we'll know what is happening which I can't say for the past administration.

If he was so open and transparent, there would be a hell of a lot more outrage than what is currently on display. His "transparency" begins and ends with the media.

[Mr Majestyk]

I laughed when I saw the word "transparency" used by Juiceweezl in his own post....blindly repeating a way-overused term we've been spoon-fed ad nauseum by the media.

[cannonball996]

the torture tactics were no secret, for the lat 5 years every person who was released from guantanamo told the international media what was going on, the only thing Obama did was confirm what was going on.

[Juiceweezl]

the torture tactics were no secret, for the lat 5 years every person who was released from guantanamo told the international media what was going on, the only thing Obama did was confirm what was going on.

Come on now, don't point out the obvious. The Republicunts in here want someone to blame. It's all Obama's fault according to them.

[Juiceweezl]

I laughed when I saw the word "transparency" used by Juiceweezl in his own post....blindly repeating a way-overused term we've been spoon-fed ad nauseum by the media.

Another quality post from the guy who claimed Gonzaga > North Carolina in the basketball tournament. I expected nothing less from someone of your extensive knowledge.

[Geor!]

Come on now, don't point out the obvious. The Republicunts in here want someone to blame. It's all Obama's fault according to them.

I believe that most of the "Republicunts," as you call them, are for the tactics used such as waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc...

[Mr Majestyk]

Another quality post from the guy who claimed Gonzaga > North Carolina in the basketball tournament. I expected nothing less from someone of your extensive knowledge.

Can't stay on topic after putting your foot in your mouth? I expected as such and once again you delivered.

Nothing changes the fact that you lose all credibility here by your use, as would be expected of a mindless sheep, the word "transparency". Go ahead a repeat other shit you believe in because it's been spoon-fed to you by the media, we need some comic relief in here.

[cannonball996]

I believe that most of the "Republicunts," as you call them, are for the tactics used such as waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc...

our military and our government define water boarding and sleep deprivation as torture. we also prosecuted members of Iraqs military for water boarding.

[Denny]

Am I happy with the administration? Yes, so far I am. The administration is doing something different besides steering us into a black hole like the Bush administration was doing. I disagree with some of the decisions, but as a whole, I'm happy to see something different being done. I'm also happy to see some transparency. The Bush Administration used 9/11 as a "free pass" to do whatever it wanted. There was zero accountability, no budget, everything deemed "top secret," etc. At least the Obama Administration is being out in the open about stuff so that you guys (and others) can call him out on it. If it fails, then everyone will know it and he will not be re-elected. Succeed or fail, at least we'll know what is happening which I can't say for the past administration.
Different isn't always better. Everyone should be looking at how these decision will end up in the future. It's a shitty attitude to have to say we'll just elect someone different after four years. What's been done in just a few months is going to screw this country for a long time as it is. There is no transparency in the lies this man tells. I'm not going to knock you for falling for his bullshit because there are many more like you.

As for the interregation, I stated my position earlier in this thread. I wish we'd say screw the rules and let everyone know that we'll do whatever it takes to keep our people and our country safe. Then, we could do whatever we want to gain information. My personal preference is a .22 LR to the knee cap as I stated. As it is though, we are a part of a higher code/law and should abide by the rules. We expect our prisoners to be treated fairly (whether they are or not is a different story) and should do the same in return as long as we expect otherwise. If we were willing to say, "F the rules," then again, I'm all for kicking butt.
How can you fight a conventional war against an unconventional enemy? STOP HOLDING US BACK!!!

I'll say it for you... Fuck the rules!!!!

[AL P]

Denny is obviously a left wing extremist and should move to Monatana

I do like how there is "transparency" now, I can definitely see that nothing has changed at all thanks to that. I mean except for firing up the printing press and rattled off another trillion dollars we don't have to save the yellow shitting spotted owls.

[Geor!]

our military and our government define water boarding and sleep deprivation as torture. we also prosecuted members of Iraqs military for water boarding.

The people our government "torture" (I don't consider either of those two methods torture, either), are not any country's men or women in uniform, therefore the Geneva Convention Rules do not apply. I don't see how hard it is to understand that. I also don't see what's so hard to understand about how "torturing" a few to prevent the deaths of thousands is so goddamned wrong either. Guess that's what separates liberal trash from conservative patriots though.

[Juiceweezl]

How can you fight a conventional war against an unconventional enemy? STOP HOLDING US BACK!!!

I'll say it for you... Fuck the rules!!!!

As I said earlier, this is what I wish we would come out in public and say. I wish our policy were that we will do whatever we feel is necessary. Until we define that as our policy, then we should stick to what we expect/desire as treatment for our troops/citizens, etc. If we think it's wrong for US citizens/soldiers/etc. to be tortured, then we can't rightfully say it's okay to torture prisoners here. IMO, this is easily remedied by renouncing an adherence to "play by the rules." Until we do that, it's a double standard.

[Juiceweezl]

Denny is obviously a left wing extremist and should move to Monatana

I do like how there is "transparency" now, I can definitely see that nothing has changed at all thanks to that. I mean except for firing up the printing press and rattled off another trillion dollars we don't have to save the yellow shitting spotted owls.

Have you produced that Bush budget yet to show all the ways he was reducing the defecit??? Yeah, didn't think so.

[AL P]

Have you produced that Bush budget yet to show all the ways he was reducing the defecit??? Yeah, didn't think so.

Was I supposed to? Oh, that's right, according to your stupidity I agree with everything Bush did. I keep forgetting that I am dealing with a moron. My mistake.

And your position of "Well, Bush did it too!!" makes you sound like a whiney pussy.

[Juiceweezl]

Different isn't always better. Everyone should be looking at how these decision will end up in the future. It's a shitty attitude to have to say we'll just elect someone different after four years. What's been done in just a few months is going to screw this country for a long time as it is. There is no transparency in the lies this man tells. I'm not going to knock you for falling for his bullshit because there are many more like you.

Sorry, forgot to reply to this part a min ago. You're correct, different isn't always better, but 3 months is hardly enough time to pass judgement. Yes, we should look ahead and see how things will affect the future. I've got news for you. If McCain had won, we'd still have the largest defecit ever. We'd have a moron for VP, and an incompetent POTUS (much like we had the last 8 years). True, there wouldn't be any "transparency" as you guys love now. We all know how open the Bush administration is. Funny how you guys condemn the libs for following the media yet you guys followed Bush like he was passing out free Kool-Aid.

Honestly, I'd had it with the Bush regime and the direction we were headed. To me it's not a "shitty attitude" to say we'll elect someone different after four years. Our system is what it is -- we elect our leaders as the terms come up for ballot. POTUS is every 4 years. I vote for which ever candidate I think has the best plans going forward. Honestly, it wasn't McCain or Obama IMO. That's why I didn't vote for either of them. Obama did win and is entitled to a chance and our support instead of hoping for failure as seems to be the popular theme on this site. To me, it's a "shitty attitude" to sit back here and play e-tough against our leaders, especially since the majority here already agrees with you. If you are unhappy with the leadership and direction, spend your time in a better way at gathering support for another party/cadidate instead of beating a dead horse here. How many more votes can you honestly hope to gain here?

Now, as for your statement about the first few months. Do I think we are building up tons of debt that will take a long, long time to repay? Absolutely. Do I think that price is worth it compared to the alternatve? Again, absolutely. There are some risks with current actions, but there is also a chance for a nice reward out of it. You guys are all about America the free and great and defending our nation. Well, if we let our big companies go down (including US auto) along with allowing citizens to lose their jobs and homes, then it just opens the doors for foreign corporations to come in and take over. It sucks that people making unwise decisions are getting in essence a "free pass," but propping up our economy and the very existence of our country is a bit higher priority that being bitter over someone getting bail out money.

[46Tbird]

Have you produced that Bush budget yet to show all the ways he was reducing the defecit??? Yeah, didn't think so.Show me Obama's. "Yeah, didn't think so."

Shift and deflect, shift and deflect. Can you stay on topic here? What does the defecit have to do with your original points?:

What's the problem? Some guys crossed the line, Obama and his regime are trying to fix it so that it doesn't happen again, and they aren't going to prosecute those that did since they were following legal orders at the time. I don't see anything wrong here.

If these bastards are willing to blow themselves up for their cause, what can we gain from drowning them? Besides, if that type of torture doesn't work right away, the victims will make up whatever they feel is necessary to stop the torture. It simply doesn't work unless it works right away. If it were US operatives captured overseas and tortured, you'd all be screaming that it is unfair treatment, etc. (which you should if that were the case). If you're going to do that though, you have to play by the same rules.

Besides, I figured all of you right wing extremists, uphold the Constitution, "don't invade my privacy, and don't illegal search and seizure me" people would be happy that Obama is not supporting the Congressional proposal to form a "truth commission" to examine your fearless leader Bush's CT programs. Of course in the same breath, I'm surprised you're not screaming that the "warrantless eavesdropping" that Bush made legal doesn't constitute an illegal search and seizure. Then again, why would any of you actually use logic and acknowledge that your guy F'd up! Maybe the great Al P can explain how warrantless eavesdropping is legal and not an invasion of privacy.


I think it's funny that you think we were all praising Bush's policies. Maybe if you had been paying attention to this forum prior to the great liberal election of '08 you would have seen that there was a lot of dissatisfaction here with Bush's economic agenda and overstepping of government powers. Let's just say Obama has already exploded past the spending and overstepping of Bush on a scale that I could not fathom would have happened across two full terms. It has been a little over two months.

The American government bailing out private firms and then firing their CEOs? I could never have imagined that happening. Not in a million years.

[Juiceweezl]

Was I supposed to? Oh, that's right, according to your stupidity I agree with everything Bush did. I keep forgetting that I am dealing with a moron. My mistake.

And your position of "Well, Bush did it too!!" makes you sound like a whiney pussy.

You should change your name to "I Jump to Conclusions." Please continue to throw stones at Obama and anyone that supports him. Answer a simple questions. Did you support Bush or not? If so, then don't ridicule Obama for addressing Bush's shortcomings. If not, then start bashing Bush alongside Obama. Oh, and I'm not the "whiney pussy." It's you and others on here daily crying about Obama, not me.

[Mr Majestyk]

More like laughing, at you and your messiah.

[Denny]

Sorry, forgot to reply to this part a min ago. You're correct, different isn't always better, but 3 months is hardly enough time to pass judgement. Yes, we should look ahead and see how things will affect the future. I've got news for you. If McCain had won, we'd still have the largest defecit ever. We'd have a moron for VP, and an incompetent POTUS (much like we had the last 8 years). True, there wouldn't be any "transparency" as you guys love now. We all know how open the Bush administration is. Funny how you guys condemn the libs for following the media yet you guys followed Bush like he was passing out free Kool-Aid.

Honestly, I'd had it with the Bush regime and the direction we were headed. To me it's not a "shitty attitude" to say we'll elect someone different after four years. Our system is what it is -- we elect our leaders as the terms come up for ballot. POTUS is every 4 years. I vote for which ever candidate I think has the best plans going forward. Honestly, it wasn't McCain or Obama IMO. That's why I didn't vote for either of them. Obama did win and is entitled to a chance and our support instead of hoping for failure as seems to be the popular theme on this site. To me, it's a "shitty attitude" to sit back here and play e-tough against our leaders, especially since the majority here already agrees with you. If you are unhappy with the leadership and direction, spend your time in a better way at gathering support for another party/cadidate instead of beating a dead horse here. How many more votes can you honestly hope to gain here?

Now, as for your statement about the first few months. Do I think we are building up tons of debt that will take a long, long time to repay? Absolutely. Do I think that price is worth it compared to the alternatve? Again, absolutely. There are some risks with current actions, but there is also a chance for a nice reward out of it. You guys are all about America the free and great and defending our nation. Well, if we let our big companies go down (including US auto) along with allowing citizens to lose their jobs and homes, then it just opens the doors for foreign corporations to come in and take over. It sucks that people making unwise decisions are getting in essence a "free pass," but propping up our economy and the very existence of our country is a bit higher priority that being bitter over someone getting bail out money.

There was a time that this economy crisis was salvagable, but not now. All it did was prolong the inevitable, with a ton more debt behind it. All those who are investing in our "bail-outs" are eventually going to be knocking on our door. THEN it will get interesting. We'll still be broke and indebted beyond comprehension.

[AL P]

You should change your name to "I Jump to Conclusions." Please continue to throw stones at Obama and anyone that supports him. Answer a simple questions. Did you support Bush or not? If so, then don't ridicule Obama for addressing Bush's shortcomings. If not, then start bashing Bush alongside Obama. Oh, and I'm not the "whiney pussy." It's you and others on here daily crying about Obama, not me.

Now I jump to conclusions??!! lol

I know it is complicated for a simpleton such as yourself but it is possible to support some things that a president does while not supporting others. For example, I may agree with Bush on the Iraq war but I may disagree with him on his fiscal policy. Just as I may agree with Obama when it comes to the propping up of AIG but I may disagree on his deficit spending. Keep trying to grasp the concept, one day you may get it, little guy.