Obama speech discussion thread

[mikeb]

Just sat down and flipped on the tv and its about to start. Personally, I want to see bobby jindals response.

[Vertnut]

Just sat down and flipped on the tv and its about to start. Personally, I want to see bobby jindals response.

I'm watching. Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. :aargh4:

[Vertnut]

He's kicking into his MLK speech pattern.

[mikeb]

Blah, blah, blah....... spending is good ....... blah, blah, blah ..... i'm planning to spend more money ......blah, blah, blah ..... i'm helping lowlifes pay their mortgages ........ blah, blah, blah ....... trust us ..... blah, blah, blah ....... i'm going to kick ass and take names ..... blah, blah, blah ..... the days of big spending by banks are over .... blah, blah, blah..... the cost of action is less than the cost of inaction ....... blah, blah, blah ....... damn, thats a nice looking intern over there :)

[Slowhand]

Blah, blah, blah....... spending is good ....... blah, blah, blah ..... i'm planning to spend more money ......blah, blah, blah ..... i'm helping lowlifes pay their mortgages ........ blah, blah, blah ....... trust us ..... blah, blah, blah ....... i'm going to kick ass and take names ..... blah, blah, blah ..... the days of big spending by banks are over .... blah, blah, blah..... the cost of action is less than the cost of inaction ....... blah, blah, blah ....... damn, thats a nice looking intern over there :)

Nice breakdown :fing02:

[Mr Majestyk]

Blah, blah, blah....... spending is good ....... blah, blah, blah ..... i'm planning to spend more money ......blah, blah, blah ..... i'm helping lowlifes pay their mortgages ........ blah, blah, blah ....... trust us ..... blah, blah, blah ....... i'm going to kick ass and take names ..... blah, blah, blah ..... the days of big spending by banks are over .... blah, blah, blah..... the cost of action is less than the cost of inaction ....... blah, blah, blah ....... damn, thats a nice looking intern over there :)

Cliff Notes = yada-yada-yada

[mikeb]

Oh shit, now hes getting into carbon caps and renewable energy. A cap and trade system is NOT what the country needs.

[Vertnut]

I'll bet he was a cheerleader in Hawaii...

[Vertnut]

Here comes socialized medicine...holy shit.

...and he's going to cure cancer!

[Mr Majestyk]

Nancy Pelosi is ugly

[98BlownSS]

Man, Pelosi is wearing me out! She is already standing up to clap before he has even finished his sentence.

[Vertnut]

Man, this is going to be expensive...

[Pro88LX]

too much clapping for me.

[mikeb]

Man, this is going to be expensive...

Yes, it is. Something that the obama cheerleaders never stop to consider.

Hell, roll out the socialist health care. Its never worked anywhere else, let the obama supporters see just what they voted for.

[bullet]

Man, this is going to be expensive...


Compared to what ?

[bullet]

Yes, it is. Something that the obama cheerleaders never stop to consider.

Hell, roll out the socialist health care. Its never worked anywhere else, let the obama supporters see just what they voted for.


That already exist here, ask any illegal that goes to the ER and pays 0 while your insurance premiums increase every year.

[bullet]

Here comes socialized medicine...holy shit.

...and he's going to cure cancer!


He's the messiah, did you expect anything less ?

[Vertnut]

Compared to what ?

At his pace, he will triple Dubya's deficit...

[Vertnut]

He's the messiah, did you expect anything less ?

I thought you'd be under that podium with him...I'm shocked to see you home!

[bullet]

At his pace, he will triple Dubya's deficit...


oh the fear, w increased the debt 100% in 8 years, so to catch him% wise the messiah has to raise the debt from 10 to 20 trillion over 8 years.

[kpc01]

Man, Pelosi is wearing me out! She is already standing up to clap before he has even finished his sentence.

Any other drinkers take advantage of Pelosi? everytime she stands up take a drink.....if so I'm sure your out cold on the floor still :yikes:

[mikeb]

That already exist here, ask any illegal that goes to the ER and pays 0 while your insurance premiums increase every year.

Just wait until you get your "hillary care" card. While the cost of health care in the US is IMO too costly, injecting the government into it will only make it worse.

[Vertnut]

oh the fear, w increased the debt 100% in 8 years, so to catch him% wise the messiah has to raise the debt from 10 to 20 trillion over 8 years.

9 trillion in 4 years is the projection. Go back under the podium...

[mikeb]

Any other drinkers take advantage of Pelosi? everytime she stands up take a drink.....if so I'm sure your out cold on the floor still :yikes:

I was watching biden. He was always a couple of seconds behind her, and seemed irritated every time she jumped up LOL......

[Vertnut]

Just wait until you get your "hillary care" card. While the cost of health care in the US is IMO too costly, injecting the government into it will only make it worse.

Name one thing the government does efficiently....time's up!:biggrin:

[PoorSVTMan]

No No No, he is going to cut the deficit in half by the next re-election. Hold your breath and see what happens. Hopefully most people will not take this advice and continue to breath as much as they can.

[bullet]

Any other drinkers take advantage of Pelosi? everytime she stands up take a drink.....if so I'm sure your out cold on the floor still :yikes:


She was jumping out that chair like there was a hot coal under her ass.

[bullet]

9 trillion in 4 years is the projection. Go back under the podium...


from where ?

[mustangguy289]

Was Pelosi trying not to laugh or playing with Biden's penis under the table?

[bullet]

My present to Al

[Avery'sDad]

Damn he used every feel good cliché. :biggrin::crucified::hail::hail:

[93coupelx]

Lots of contradictions
We are not going to reward wall street for their bad decisions....
we will provide what's needed to clean up their balance sheets....
to long we have traded short term gains (bailouts) for long term prosparity...
we need to get credit flowing again....

and on and on

full of shit comes to mind.

[Vertnut]

How about saving money by pulling out of Iraq...but...2 brigades in Afganistan, so far...hmmm...

[bullet]

How about saving money by pulling out of Iraq...but...2 brigades in Afganistan, so far...hmmm...



What's wrong with going after terrorist ?

Unlike bush, at least he is focusing on the real problem area.

[Avery'sDad]

Any other drinkers take advantage of Pelosi? everytime she stands up take a drink.....if so I'm sure your out cold on the floor still :yikes:

Where was the applause sign like they use on sitcoms.there is no way these idiots stood up together every time.like abunch of puppets. Sorry bout the grammer usingiphone.

[bullet]

I hope the gop has a better candidate for 2012 than jindal or you guys are going to get 8 years of obama.

[mikeb]

I hope the gop has a better candidate for 2012 than jindal or you guys are going to get 8 years of obama.

Yeah, hes young and does not speak like obama. But maybe after a couple of years of obama people will be looking for honesty. He DID clean up louisiana politics which is no mean feat.

[sc281_99-0135]

oh the fear, w increased the debt 100% in 8 years, so to catch him% wise the messiah has to raise the debt from 10 to 20 trillion over 8 years.

To compare with W, he'll have to raise the deficit by 5 trillion (50%) within 4 years ( he aint getting a second term)

Let's see

He's got an 800 billion dollar spending package.
The treasury,since the messiah graced the office, has guaranteed 2 trillion for mortgages,
He has already stated he wants only 500 billion dollar deficits BY 2012, so even if that happens now, that's 2.5 trillion (realistically more like 3.5 though)

if the Treasury has to eat the 2 trillion, that equals 5.3 trillion in debt. HAHAH And we're just getting started. :aargh4:

He's done more, maybe someone else will chime in.

[fast83]

jindal vs. obama? ill puke. who we need is ron paul.


jindal's scripted speech was not good,sounded like a jelous kid/republican party.

politics is becoming comical,i say we need to run all there ass's out and fill there positions with joe the plumbers etc.real people.

[bullet]

jindal vs. obama? ill puke. who we need is ron paul.


jindal's scripted speech was not good,sounded like a jelous kid/republican party.

politics is becoming comical,i say we need to run all there ass's out and fill there positions with joe the plumbers etc.real people.




It looked like a SNL spoof when he was speaking.
Ron Paul will be to old to run in 2012.

[Denny]

jindal vs. obama? ill puke. who we need is ron paul.


jindal's scripted speech was not good,sounded like a jelous kid/republican party.

politics is becoming comical,i say we need to run all there ass's out and fill there positions with joe the plumbers etc.real people.

I'd take Jindal over Paul. Jindal displays a posture that makes me think he'd make good decisions in dire times. Paul seems to me like a cowboy who might have a "WTF" moment at the wrong time.

[Avery'sDad]

I'd take Jindal over Paul. Jindal displays a posture that makes me think he'd make good decisions in dire times. Paul seems to me like a cowboy who might have a "WTF" moment at the wrong time.

I'll take someone who'll have a WTF moment one time than a WTF moment continuously!

[93coupelx]

I'd take Jindal over Paul. Jindal displays a posture that makes me think he'd make good decisions in dire times. Paul seems to me like a cowboy who might have a "WTF" moment at the wrong time.

Cowboy? From what I have seen of the man, he has never abandoned his principles. That is why he is a lone wolf. Ron Paul 2012. I would take him on life support over Obama.

[fast83]

Cowboy? From what I have seen of the man, he has never abandoned his principles. That is why he is a lone wolf. Ron Paul 2012. I would take him on life support over Obama.

:biggrin:

[forever_frost]

"The president indicated that the government would be getting into the consumer banking business, creating a federal lending fund to help provide auto loans, college loans and small business loans “to the consumers and entrepreneurs who keep this economy running.” He did not provide any further details. "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29364383/?gt1=43001

Yeah "We're not going to socialize the banks." Watch as we socialize the banks....What did I say? Nah, you're twisting things, I never said I was going to leave banks private...I said the government was taking over bitches...

I hate this man

[MadMax404m]

So who is taking bets on how much the market drops tomorrow? :crucified:

[Juiceweezl]

So who is taking bets on how much the market drops tomorrow? :crucified:

Why? Because he called out bank execs and Wall Streeters for being stupid and putting us in this predicament? He called a spade a spade. It's funny that all of you that were complaining about speculators and $150+ barrels of oil are now in here griping about Obama calling those people out. Make up your mind already.

Oh, and one more thing. For all of you screaming your taxes are going up under Obama, chime in if you're above the $250K line that will experience, "No increase in taxes." Yeah, I'm waiting...

[mikeb]

Why? Because he called out bank execs and Wall Streeters for being stupid and putting us in this predicament? He called a spade a spade. It's funny that all of you that were complaining about speculators and $150+ barrels of oil are now in here griping about Obama calling those people out. Make up your mind already.

Oh, and one more thing. For all of you screaming your taxes are going up under Obama, chime in if you're above the $250K line that will experience, "No increase in taxes." Yeah, I'm waiting...

The problem is that obama really has no control over the speculators and the market and so on. He just talks a good game, but when you scrape off the crap its just regular old democratic pork barrel spending.

Obama will eventually have to raise taxes on us all to pay for his spending plan. You think that spending billions/trillions is "free"? All of our taxes are going up.

[93coupelx]

Why? Because he called out bank execs and Wall Streeters for being stupid and putting us in this predicament? He called a spade a spade. It's funny that all of you that were complaining about speculators and $150+ barrels of oil are now in here griping about Obama calling those people out. Make up your mind already.

Oh, and one more thing. For all of you screaming your taxes are going up under Obama, chime in if you're above the $250K line that will experience, "No increase in taxes." Yeah, I'm waiting...

Inflation is a tax unfortunately and with his proposed plans I think it will get much worse. Cost of living increases affect the bottom first.

[Stevo]

chime in if you're above the $250K line that will experience, "No increase in taxes." Yeah, I'm waiting...

10 years ago my 2-3 man plumbing business grossed 250k business in a year for three years straight before state laws changed and illegal aliens took over the industry. Most small business will gross over 250k easy today.

Stevo

[Denny]

Cowboy? From what I have seen of the man, he has never abandoned his principles. That is why he is a lone wolf. Ron Paul 2012. I would take him on life support over Obama.

Sometimes, you need to do what is best for the country, whether you like it or not.

[Vertnut]

Ron Paul is out of the question. He would be older going in than Reagan when he came out! LOL! The focus needs to be on 2010, and not the presidency.

[Juiceweezl]

10 years ago my 2-3 man plumbing business grossed 250k business in a year for three years straight before state laws changed and illegal aliens took over the industry. Most small business will gross over 250k easy today.

Stevo

That's your business grossing $250K, not your family income unless you're meaning that was your share of the earnings. If that was your share, well, it was 2-3 years ago when housing was booming at a superficial rate -- not currently, which means you will see no increase in taxes. The numbers 2-3 years ago were bogus and unhealthy. As for illegals taking over, how does that work? All plumbers are supposed to be state licensed. I see plenty of plumbing trucks going up and down the road all the time that don't have the appearance of being illegals.

[Chopped54]

I hope the gop has a better candidate for 2012 than jindal or you guys are going to get 8 years of obama.

You are out of your fucking mind...
At the rate his Approval rating is falling if there were Presidential elections in 2010 he would be out....
Your boy is a one termer, no doubt. They will try to push as much bullshit as they can through before that term is up..

[Hass]

That's your business grossing $250K, not your family income unless you're meaning that was your share of the earnings. If that was your share, well, it was 2-3 years ago when housing was booming at a superficial rate -- not currently, which means you will see no increase in taxes. The numbers 2-3 years ago were bogus and unhealthy. As for illegals taking over, how does that work? All plumbers are supposed to be state licensed. I see plenty of plumbing trucks going up and down the road all the time that don't have the appearance of being illegals.

What about tax increases when Bush' tax cuts expire? If Bama lets those tax cuts expire, he will be raising taxes by failing to continue the current tax strategy.

Most of the illegal workers don't drive trucks that have advertisements on them.

[bullet]

Chopp, the WASP could not even get mccain elected and you are smoking crack if you think the gop stands a chance in hell running mr rogers in 2012. The only reason he got elected governor was because his opponent did not handle katrina properly and pissed people off. If this is the best they have then you will without a doubt get 8 years of your best friend.

[Sean88gt]

Why? Because he called out bank execs and Wall Streeters for being stupid and putting us in this predicament? He called a spade a spade. It's funny that all of you that were complaining about speculators and $150+ barrels of oil are now in here griping about Obama calling those people out. Make up your mind already.

Oh, and one more thing. For all of you screaming your taxes are going up under Obama, chime in if you're above the $250K line that will experience, "No increase in taxes." Yeah, I'm waiting...

My business, in a really bad down year last year still did over $2M. His payroll taxes alone would have killed us.

[bullet]

That's your business grossing $250K, not your family income unless you're meaning that was your share of the earnings. If that was your share, well, it was 2-3 years ago when housing was booming at a superficial rate -- not currently, which means you will see no increase in taxes. The numbers 2-3 years ago were bogus and unhealthy. As for illegals taking over, how does that work? All plumbers are supposed to be state licensed. I see plenty of plumbing trucks going up and down the road all the time that don't have the appearance of being illegals.


Typical cry baby ass republicant. I too have never seen a mexican plumber in my area. Even on new construction it is white or black guys out there digging the trenches to lay the pipe. Maybe vertnut will chime in on the number of mexican plumbers versus whites and blacks in his area.

[bullet]

My business, in a really bad down year last year still did over $2M. His payroll taxes alone would have killed us.


Do you really think they will tax gross and net at the same time ?



They will probably raise the top bracket back back to 39.6 %. To be truly fair they should roll back all the tax cuts at every level even though it would effect the lower class more.

[Denny]

Chopp, the WASP could not even get mccain elected and you are smoking crack if you think the gop stands a chance in hell running mr rogers in 2012. The only reason he got elected governor was because his opponent did not handle katrina properly and pissed people off. If this is the best they have then you will without a doubt get 8 years of your best friend.

The GOP knew they were going to get their asses handed to them. That's why they put McCain in.

[Sean88gt]

Do you really think they will tax gross and net at the same time ?



They will probably raise the top bracket back back to 39.6 %. To be truly fair they should roll back all the tax cuts at every level even though it would effect the lower class more.

They are going to hammer small business, in every way available to them. Small business embodies everything that is not liberal.

And having to pay 40% of your income to the federal government is criminal. In some states, throw in state income tax, property tax, and sales tax and if you're lucky you get home with 30% of your income.

[MadMax404m]

Why? Because he called out bank execs and Wall Streeters for being stupid and putting us in this predicament? He called a spade a spade. It's funny that all of you that were complaining about speculators and $150+ barrels of oil are now in here griping about Obama calling those people out. Make up your mind already.

Oh, and one more thing. For all of you screaming your taxes are going up under Obama, chime in if you're above the $250K line that will experience, "No increase in taxes." Yeah, I'm waiting...


You were saying??? http://money.cnn.com/ 2hrs open and its down almost a 100 points.

When you start talking back and forth about taking away the private sectors that has nothing to do with speculators on oil. That has to do with free market trading and the value of the dollar. When you lose free market trading, you lose capitalism, when you lose capitalism you lose the market and your dollar completely.

[bullet]

They are going to hammer small business, in every way available to them. Small business embodies everything that is not liberal.

And having to pay 40% of your income to the federal government is criminal. In some states, throw in state income tax, property tax, and sales tax and if you're lucky you get home with 30% of your income.





What makes you think they wont follow slick willy and cut taxes for 90% of small business owners like he did while raising the top bracket ?

[AL P]

What makes you think they wont follow slick willy and cut taxes for 90% of small business owners like he did while raising the top bracket ?

Ignoring the fact that those "90%" of small business owners are just the fuckwads who have to file as such on their taxes. Thank God my aunt Myrtle won't pay increased taxes on her Amway sales this year, that extra $87 is really going to help her out. Meanwhile, the guy with a restaurant gets fucked up the ass for an extra $50,000.

Only a moron who knows nothing about small businesses in this country would be fooled by that load of bullshit.

[bullet]

So what do you propose Al ?

Cut taxes for all and increase spending like the bush administration did ?


You know damn well neither party is going to spend less so that only leaves one option.

[Juiceweezl]

So what do you propose Al ?

Cut taxes for all and increase spending like the bush administration did ?


You know damn well neither party is going to spend less so that only leaves one option.

What, you mean there's no Republican magic fairy that can cut taxes everywhere while increasing spending everywhere???? Damnit! Next you're going to say there's no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny.

[BP]

What's wrong with going after terrorist ?

Unlike bush, at least he is focusing on the real problem area.

You mean Obama knows about Abu Sayyaf, the Deccan Mujaheddin, and Jemaah Islamiyah?

These groups have killed 10x as many foreign nationals as Al Qaeda since 9/11. At least we are actively fighting the Abu Sayyaf, the other two groups are pretty much unchecked by American forces.

[bullet]

What, you mean there's no Republican magic fairy that can cut taxes everywhere while increasing spending everywhere???? Damnit! Next you're going to say there's no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny.






What you don't believe in the DEBT fairy ?

[bobs94formula]

You are out of your fucking mind...
At the rate his Approval rating is falling if there were Presidential elections in 2010 he would be out....
Your boy is a one termer, no doubt. They will try to push as much bullshit as they can through before that term is up..


I hate to say it but his approval rating doesn't mean much to me. He'll get re-elected, hate to say that too.

[Shaithis]

jindal vs. obama? ill puke. who we need is ron paul.


jindal's scripted speech was not good,sounded like a jelous kid/republican party.

politics is becoming comical,i say we need to run all there ass's out and fill there positions with joe the plumbers etc.real people.


As stated above, Dr. Paul would be seen as too old in the majorities eyes. He's a smart man, with good ideas that are 20 years too late. But if you take a look at what he's been up to lately, he seems to be focusing more on Texas itself. He has been attending more Texas rallies, more seccession rallies, and speaking about Texas being a republic again.

[Big Thumper]

I hate to say it but his approval rating doesn't mean much to me. He'll get re-elected, hate to say that too.

75% of the people I work with voted for Obama. They don't follow anything remotely pertaining to politics. They will vote for him again.


He'll get re-elected...

[Shaithis]

One gripe i had about the speech was his talk about education. WTF are we doing letting the fed gov't even talk about education. How does the feds know what is good for our kids here? Constitutionally speaking, the feds shouldn't have ANY say on education. The states need to step back in, keep the federal funding, and kick thier asses out.

If i am wrong here, explain. I just don't see how some bean counter in DC can know what johnny rotten needs in small town texas.

[Hass]

I will admit I did not watch the whole thing. Between screen shots of Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi hopping up and down like she had a spring up her ass, it made me sick and I tuned out.

But did anyone catch this?

Bama implied that the US invented the automobile. Many car enthusiasts know that this technology (like other crucial technologies we use today) was a derivation from the country of Germany.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/obamagaffeamericadidntinventautomobile

[Vertnut]

I will admit I did not watch the whole thing. Between screen shots of Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi hopping up and down like she had a spring up her ass, it made me sick and I tuned out.

But did anyone catch this?

Bama implied that the US invented the automobile. Many car enthusiasts know that this technology (like other crucial technologies we use today) was a derivation from the country of Germany.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/obamagaffeamericadidntinventautomobile

Yeah, Factcheck tore his lying ass up...again.

LMAO at Bullet telling us what will/won't happen in 8 years!:biggrin:

No Mexican plumbers out here. Never seen one, but I use a local guy.

[bullet]

No Mexican plumbers out here. Never seen one, but I use a local guy.




Interesting indeed

[Stevo]

No Mexican plumbers out here. Never seen one, but I use a local guy.


Sadly, in plumbing, new construction is made up of probably 80% illegal mexicans in Texas. In rural ares, more like 95%

Stevo

[bullet]

Stevo, you are just talking out of ass like bush did sounding like a fool.


Vertnut has been in the industry along time and I was as well and you have no clue with those made up statistics you are preaching.

So do everyone a favor and




:bryce:

[AL P]

Stevo, you are just talking out of ass like bush did sounding like a fool.


Vertnut has been in the industry along time and I was as well and you have no clue with those made up statistics you are preaching.

So do everyone a favor and




:bryce:

Digging shit out of the toilets at Denny's doesn't mean you were "in the plumbing business".

[Chopped54]

75% of the people I work with voted for Obama. They don't follow anything remotely pertaining to politics. They will vote for him again.


He'll get re-elected...



I really don't think so. They are/were expecting a hand out. For most of them it will not be given so that will change him from their boy to a house boy....
I honestly think he will only be a one termer, period, bottom line. People are already tired of his shit and he has only been in office a month. That will only get better or worse over the next 4 years, and I am betting on the latter. Nothing he has done thus far makes any sense, and not substance in working to pull us out.

[bobs94formula]

75% of the people I work with voted for Obama. They don't follow anything remotely pertaining to politics. They will vote for him again.


He'll get re-elected...

I really don't think so. They are/were expecting a hand out. For most of them it will not be given so that will change him from their boy to a house boy....
I honestly think he will only be a one termer, period, bottom line. People are already tired of his shit and he has only been in office a month. That will only get better or worse over the next 4 years, and I am betting on the latter. Nothing he has done thus far makes any sense, and not substance in working to pull us out.


I'd be willing to be 90% of the people I work with voted for him. Most of them, really probably all of them, follow nothing political and want him there because of his race. Atleast that is my observations of the stupidity of the general public in my little corner of the world.:shrug:

Chopped is right though most were wanting a handout, and most still think they are going to get it too. I have to admit I take a little dark pleasure in letting them know there is not going to be a stimulus check from Obama for them!:firedevil:

[Stevo]

Stevo, you are just talking out of ass like bush did sounding like a fool.


Vertnut has been in the industry along time and I was as well and you have no clue with those made up statistics you are preaching.

So do everyone a favor and




:bryce:

You fucking fool, I was working as a commercial plumber from the time I was 17, starting as an apprentice plumber, until I turned 22, got my journeyman license, worked another 3 years, started my own business and was working for contractors doing sub-contract work until '99, then went back to commercial work until 2005. I have no idea what field of work Vert is in, but I KNOW my field of work.

Lets see, so far, you have no clue in the topics of finance, the plumbing industry, politics, English and world history. Keep opening your cockholster so we can see how much more shit you have no clue about, kid.

Stevo

[exlude]

Vert is a home builder...I think...

[Vertnut]

You fucking fool, I was working as a commercial plumber from the time I was 17, starting as an apprentice plumber, until I turned 22, got my journeyman license, worked another 3 years, started my own business and was working for contractors doing sub-contract work until '99, then went back to commercial work until 2005. I have no idea what field of work Vert is in, but I KNOW my field of work.

Lets see, so far, you have no clue in the topics of finance, the plumbing industry, politics, English and world history. Keep opening your cockholster so we can see how much more shit you have no clue about, kid.

Stevo

I'm a home builder. I use S&G Plumbing for all my plumbing...pre-slab, rough-in, and tops. I didn't say there wasn't illegals in the biz...I said I don't see them around here. I've used the same local guy for years, though, and he only employs white men.

[mikeb]

I really don't think so. They are/were expecting a hand out. For most of them it will not be given so that will change him from their boy to a house boy....
I honestly think he will only be a one termer, period, bottom line. People are already tired of his shit and he has only been in office a month. That will only get better or worse over the next 4 years, and I am betting on the latter. Nothing he has done thus far makes any sense, and not substance in working to pull us out.

I agree, a lot of people bought into his "change you can believe in" bullshit. In the next four years there are indeed going to be changes you can believe in, but I suspect that the kinds of changes won't be what the obama supporters were hoping for.

IF the republicans can come up with a good candidate, and IF obama blunders as I expect he will, then it is possible that a republican can regain the oval office. But with this election it is apparent that there is a voter backlash against the republicans and the fact that they moved away from conservatism. This effect may last for quite a few years.

[Stevo]

I'm a home builder. I use S&G Plumbing for all my plumbing...pre-slab, rough-in, and tops. I didn't say there wasn't illegals in the biz...I said I don't see them around here. I've used the same local guy for years, though, and he only employs white men.

This is basically the only way non-illegal based plumbing companies can do new residential construction work: by having several contractors/builders that they do repeat work for on a constant basis. When new contractors and builders go into a new area or just start up, they usually just get the lowest bid and start there, which it seems is always an illegal based group.

New commercial and industrial work is usually different, as they have daily inspections and shit-loads of permits and paperwork and the illegals can't get by them without licenses, but new residential construction can as all they have to do is use someone elses license number to get a permit and inspection for the three build phases. If it is a rural area, that isn't even needed usually.

Stevo

[bullet]

Are you still mumbling you assclown ?

Show us some facts about all these illegals you claim.



Just cause you failed at your business and make up bullshit excuses why does not hold water with out facts to back it up.

[Chopped54]

Are you still mumbling you assclown ?

Show us some facts about all these illegals you claim.



Just cause you failed at your business and make up bullshit excuses why does not hold water with out facts to back it up.

I personally know 2 illegals that are plumbers. Be willing to bet the companies they work for have a helluva lot more too...

[bullet]

I'm a home builder. I use S&G Plumbing for all my plumbing...pre-slab, rough-in, and tops. I didn't say there wasn't illegals in the biz...I said I don't see them around here. I've used the same local guy for years, though, and he only employs white men.






The only illegals I know that even remotely come close to being plumbers are the ones that do sprinkler systems for the licensed owners, and all they get to do is dig the ditch, lay the pipe and cover it up while the licensed man makes every connection.

[bullet]

I personally know 2 illegals that are plumbers. Be willing to bet the companies they work for have a helluva lot more too...

and they are licensed ?



Here's a list of 1709 plumbers in dallas.

I challenge you to find all these illegal companies he claims that "took over the industry" 10 years ago.


http://www.yellowpages.com/Dallas-TX/Plumbing-Contractors/business_rolodex-A?sort=alpha&search_terms=plumber

Or maybe julio is using the name Smith plumbing so he can stay under the radar.

[Stevo]

Are you still mumbling you assclown ?

Show us some facts about all these illegals you claim.



Just cause you failed at your business and make up bullshit excuses why does not hold water with out facts to back it up.

Why post up facts when you will just ignore them, say they are wrong or just totally ignore them?

To be truthful, I'm not wasting my time searching for facts to show some snot-nosed punk-assed kid something that anyone can see for themselves by driving to ANY construction site.

As far as my "failed business" I left the industry in 2005 because at my last job, as a site foreman, I was told my future pay scale depended on me learning to speak spanish to be able to communicate with the inflow of new hires (illegals). I told them to stuff it, and went to service work. Funny thing, you don't see many "no speakie" illegals doing service calls, guess paying customers like to be able to actually communicate with the person they are paying to be under their sink or fixing a faucet.

Stevo

[Stevo]

and they are licensed ?

They don't need them, as I mentioned before. They get a permit under someone elses name.

Stevo

[AL P]

and they are licensed ?



Here's a list of 1709 plumbers in dallas.

I challenge you to find all these illegal companies he claims that "took over the industry" 10 years ago.


http://www.yellowpages.com/Dallas-TX/Plumbing-Contractors/business_rolodex-A?sort=alpha&search_terms=plumber

Or maybe julio is using the name Smith plumbing so he can stay under the radar.

Do you understand anything you post, fucking moron?

[bullet]

They don't need them, as I mentioned before. They get a permit under someone elses name.

Stevo



How many white or black plumbers do you know that will really let julio work under their permit and risk the chance of it coming back on them from the city if the sewer screws up or water leaks develop and cause mold problems ?


What area of Texas was your company working in ?

[bullet]

Al, stop wasting your boss's money playing on the computer.


Go buy some more drys.

[AL P]

Al, stop wasting your boss's money playing on the computer.


Go buy some more drys.

Maybe I will go buy some DOW futures and join the ranks of the super elite when Obama crafts his next bill to spend us out of this recession. The market will go straight through the roof according to the limp dick named bullet!! That's because investors will become "more comfortable" with what the future holds.

As for DRYS, I don't own any of that shit you fucking idiot.

[bullet]

I'd be angry to if I was stuck as a wage slave like you

[AL P]

I'd be angry to if I was stuck as a wage slave like you

Don't you dig shit out of toilets for a living?

[Miss D]

Why? Because he called out bank execs and Wall Streeters for being stupid and putting us in this predicament? He called a spade a spade. It's funny that all of you that were complaining about speculators and $150+ barrels of oil are now in here griping about Obama calling those people out. Make up your mind already.

Oh, and one more thing. For all of you screaming your taxes are going up under Obama, chime in if you're above the $250K line that will experience, "No increase in taxes." Yeah, I'm waiting...



He thinks if he says something often enough that it will make it true but it won't !!! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090225/ap_on_go_pr_wh/fact_check Obama, as with all other Presidents he is just trying to shove all his promises down our throat and this time there is no one to balance the power as there has been in the past so he is gleefully making a complete fool of himself and in the mean time, we will be taxed to death. Yes, taxed to death, the taxes on my house went up last year because sales taxes were already down, and they are already out taking pictures of all the homes in our area again and the word is sales taxes were so far down this time that our home tax will go way up. So yes, Taxed to death in one way or another.

[mikeb]

He thinks if he says something often enough that it will make it true but it won't !!! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090225/ap_on_go_pr_wh/fact_check Obama, as with all other Presidents he is just trying to shove all his promises down our throat and this time there is no one to balance the power as there has been in the past so he is gleefully making a complete fool of himself and in the mean time, we will be taxed to death. Yes, taxed to death, the taxes on my house went up last year because sales taxes were already down, and they are already out taking pictures of all the homes in our area again and the word is sales taxes were so far down this time that our home tax will go way up. So yes, Taxed to death in one way or another.

With home values down right now i'm going to go pull some comps the next time the tax bill rolls around and argue with the tax people about the worth of my house. Its a $130k house that they have on the rolls for $153k. I think I can get that knocked down quite a bit now.

[Zfan]

Boy oh boy is Acorn and all the other free loaders going to love this guy. Socialized medicine here we come. If you like France or Canada you are going to love it here. In 2006 the Dems took control and look where it has gotten us, they blame it all on Bush. I agree we shouldn't have stepped foot in the Middle East but besides that this housing fiasco is Slick Willy's baby.

Who repealed the laws enacted to protect us from this very problem we now have with Banks and crazy loans to worthless individuals. Oh yeah, Clinton! He is screaming "This isn't my fault" and he never had sexual relation with Monica Lewinsky or inhaled either...LOL

[Miss D]

Boy oh boy is Acorn and all the other free loaders going to love this guy. Socialized medicine here we come. If you like France or Canada you are going to love it here. In 2006 the Dems took control and look where it has gotten us, they blame it all on Bush. I agree we shouldn't have stepped foot in the Middle East but besides that this housing fiasco is Slick Willy's baby.

Who repealed the laws enacted to protect us from this very problem we now have with Banks and crazy loans to worthless individuals. Oh yeah, Clinton! He is screaming "This isn't my fault" and he never had sexual relation with Monica Lewinsky or inhaled either...LOL

Oh Don't forget that Bill Clinton also gave us the wonderful witch Hillary :scared:

[Stevo]

and they are licensed ?



Here's a list of 1709 plumbers in dallas.

I challenge you to find all these illegal companies he claims that "took over the industry" 10 years ago.


http://www.yellowpages.com/Dallas-TX/Plumbing-Contractors/business_rolodex-A?sort=alpha&search_terms=plumber

Or maybe julio is using the name Smith plumbing so he can stay under the radar.

Kid, you really crack me up. Seriously, I had no idea someone could post the shit you have been posting, and actually be serious.

Lemme guess, if I start a thread about hookers you will post up the yellow pages? What about drug dealers, are you going to post the section under "pharmaceuticals" and ask me how many are really drug dealers? Give me a fucking break.

If you do not know how illegals are doing new construction in Texas using other people's plumbing license numbers, I guess Al was right in his analogy of you pulling turds out of a toilet and calling yourself a plumber.

Stevo

[Juiceweezl]

Kid, you really crack me up. Seriously, I had no idea someone could post the shit you have been posting, and actually be serious.

Lemme guess, if I start a thread about hookers you will post up the yellow pages? What about drug dealers, are you going to post the section under "pharmaceuticals" and ask me how many are really drug dealers? Give me a fucking break.

If you do not know how illegals are doing new construction in Texas using other people's plumbing license numbers, I guess Al was right in his analogy of you pulling turds out of a toilet and calling yourself a plumber.

Stevo

Show me this new construction in TX you speak of! Oh yeah, the Bush economy killed it all. I forgot about that.

[Juiceweezl]

This is basically the only way non-illegal based plumbing companies can do new residential construction work: by having several contractors/builders that they do repeat work for on a constant basis. When new contractors and builders go into a new area or just start up, they usually just get the lowest bid and start there, which it seems is always an illegal based group.

New commercial and industrial work is usually different, as they have daily inspections and shit-loads of permits and paperwork and the illegals can't get by them without licenses, but new residential construction can as all they have to do is use someone elses license number to get a permit and inspection for the three build phases. If it is a rural area, that isn't even needed usually.

Stevo

Ummm, let's see. I work with building departments throughough the SE United States. We hold continuing education classes for plumbers in my training center on a monthly basis. I work with the major US home builders as well. I always see licensed plumbers on jobsites. There may be some Hispanic laborers, but I ALWAYS see licensed plumbers. Stop discrediting others in the industry, especially since you got out 4 years ago.

[Juiceweezl]

With home values down right now i'm going to go pull some comps the next time the tax bill rolls around and argue with the tax people about the worth of my house. Its a $130k house that they have on the rolls for $153k. I think I can get that knocked down quite a bit now.

Thank you. Miss D, you're an idiot for trying to say property taxes are killing you. That money doesn't even flow to the federal government. Property taxes went up as a result of inflated home values. They always reassess property values for tax purposes regularly. As stated above, just pull some comps, fill out the paper work, and watch the values go down. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with federal taxes. LOL

[Vertnut]

Show me this new construction in TX you speak of! Oh yeah, the Bush economy killed it all. I forgot about that.

Pretty good snipe. You don't REALLY believe it was ALL Bush, do you? I thought you were a little smarter than that.

[bullet]

Stevo, what area of texas was your plumbing business in ?


Laredo ?

[Juiceweezl]

Pretty good snipe. You don't REALLY believe it was ALL Bush, do you? I thought you were a little smarter than that.

LOL Of course not, but if you guys are blaming everything that has happened this year on Obama, why not blame that on Bush? It's the same logic!!!

[Juiceweezl]

Stevo, what area of texas was your plumbing business in ?


Laredo ?

Obviously the sewer!!!

[Stevo]

Ummm, let's see. I work with building departments throughough the SE United States. We hold continuing education classes for plumbers in my training center on a monthly basis. I work with the major US home builders as well. I always see licensed plumbers on jobsites. There may be some Hispanic laborers, but I ALWAYS see licensed plumbers. Stop discrediting others in the industry, especially since you got out 4 years ago.

Hmmm, you see licensed plumbers all "throughough" the southeast United States, huh? Odd thing to mention, since we are discussing Texas. As far as you being connected to the continuing education program for plumbers, how many illegals do you figure will be paying to go to a program that is required for licensed plumbers to renew their license?



Stevo, what area of texas was your plumbing business in ?


Laredo ?

What area was YOUR plumbing experience generated at?

I have stated much of my personal information about my career already, and yet you haven't said jack shit, only that I am wrong. So lets here about your long and distinguished plumbing career that gives you so much knowledge.

Stevo

[AL P]

Show me this new construction in TX you speak of! Oh yeah, the Bush economy killed it all. I forgot about that.

There is plenty of commercial construction still going on. If you knew half as much as you acted like you do, you'd know that developers can't just shut down a project once the capital and debt are committed. Of course a year from now new construction will be as dead as your dick. Once all the new construction is absorbed, that's when rents will start to rise. It's part of the cycle.

And if you want to get technical about it, Bush's economy was fantastic for new development and transactions of existing buildings. I'm not sure how much easier you can get when money can be had for 5.5%.

[Miss D]

Thank you. Miss D, you're an idiot for trying to say property taxes are killing you. That money doesn't even flow to the federal government. Property taxes went up as a result of inflated home values. They always reassess property values for tax purposes regularly. As stated above, just pull some comps, fill out the paper work, and watch the values go down. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with federal taxes. LOL


Federal taxes no, but any extra money out of my pocket for any kind taxes because of this mess is hurting me. I may be an idiot but you do not have the capability to understand the “wonderful trickle down effect” that the government has been kind enough to shove down our throats for the last 15 years. "]" We have to live with the implosion now"[/COLOR] When the economy get so bad that people are out of work, then they don’t go buy any thing, so the states don’t collect any sales taxes to give back to the city’s or counties or schools. So the city’s, counties & schools go to the county assessor collectors office and tell them they need more money, that is when they go out and raise the property values and believe me they are going up, up and away and yes that is a form of tax to all the people I know. I guess you must live in an apartment or your mortgage co. pays your property taxes and you don’t have any idea that you have one. :smashfreakB:

[bullet]

There is plenty of commercial construction still going on. If you knew half as much as you acted like you do, you'd know that developers can't just shut down a project once the capital and debt are committed. Of course a year from now new construction will be as dead as your dick. Once all the new construction is absorbed, that's when rents will start to rise. It's part of the cycle.

And if you want to get technical about it, Bush's economy was fantastic for new development and transactions of existing buildings. I'm not sure how much easier you can get when money can be had for 5.5%.




Are you talking Texas or nationwide? There are a few unfinished in the Houston area. But In florida there are quite a few unfinished commercial projects just sitting as the financing fell through after they were started due to the crisis and some from lack of presales.

[bullet]

stevo, I never said I was a plumber. I said me and vertnut were in the same field, which is not plumbing but we deal(t) with plumbers on a daily basis. Are you going to tell us where all these illegal plumbers are running around ?

[AL P]

Are you talking Texas or nationwide? There are a few unfinished in the Houston area. But In florida there are quite a few unfinished commercial projects just sitting as the financing fell through after they were started due to the crisis and some from lack of presales.

Why are you asking me, not smart enough to figure it out for yourself, dumbfuck?

[bcoop]

If you knew half as much as you acted like you do, you'd know that developers can't just shut down a project once the capital and debt are committed. Of course a year from now new construction will be as dead as your dick.



LOL!


You people saying that new construction isn't happening, are fucking idiots. It's happening, you're just too goddamned blind to see it.

[Stevo]

stevo, I never said I was a plumber. I said me and vertnut were in the same field, which is not plumbing but we deal(t) with plumbers on a daily basis. Are you going to tell us where all these illegal plumbers are running around ?

So, now you are saying you DON"T have a clue about the plumbing industry, just as I figured. Dealing with a handful of plumbers (or one company) in a single area does not make you a fucking expert in the plumbing industry, go back to telling us some more liberal lies because you damn sure have no clue about my industry. Also, if you would have used your head to read my posts instead of it being a cock-funnel, you would have noticed where I mention commercial new construction is not usually done by illegals, because they cannot get the permits and get by the daily inspections and paperwork. Learn to read, dunce.

As for illegals taking over, how does that work? All plumbers are supposed to be state licensed. I see plenty of plumbing trucks going up and down the road all the time that don't have the appearance of being illegals.

Guess what, you are supposed to have a drivers license to operate a vehicle on the streets, and yet people get hit by unlicensed drivers all the time.
How many of the vehicles being driven have the 'appearance' of being driven by someone that doesn't have a driver's license?

Stevo

[bullet]

Stevo, can you make a coherent sentence with out crying like a baby ?


Where are these illegal crews at ?

I would like to check them out myself.


Vertnut does not see these illegals you talk about.

I don't see them in the houston area.

The other guy does not see them in the south east US.


So where are they at ?



Made up in your twisted right wing bigot mind to justify your failed business?


Typical republicunt response from you. Making excuses instead of accepting responsibility for your actions.

[Stevo]

Stevo, can you make a coherent sentence with out crying like a baby ?

Aww, did the punk-ass get butt-hurt and has no comeback? does he need a hug?


Where are these illegal crews at ?

I would like to check them out myself.

Texas, do I need to link you a pic of the place?


Vertnut does not see these illegals you talk about.
Vert mentioned he works with one plumbing company on a steady basis, as I'm sure you read more than once but still cannot comprehend.

I don't see them in the houston area.

I'm sure you don't see many jobsites working at McDonalds as a fry cook.

The other guy does not see them in the south east US.

The other guy STILL isn't in Texas, or do I need to link you a map of the south-eastern United States to show you Texas isn't close?


So where are they at ?
Texas, see above quote, again.



Made up in your twisted right wing bigot mind to justify your failed business?


Typical republicunt response from you. Making excuses instead of accepting responsibility for your actions.

And back to post one. Sorry to make your brown eye bleed and butt-hurt you so much with hard-core truth. My company NEVER failed, I made a shit-ton of money, I just got tired of paying huge taxes, driving 5 hours a day, and being forced to work around "no speakie" illegals every day. I venture to say I made more in three years than you might in 10 years.

Tell you what kid, come back when you have something real to say, something other than the same ol' tired shit you have been spewing. Anyone that has actually stepped foot on a residential job site knows exactly what I speak of.

Stevo

[bullet]

Love the excuse about how they forced you to work with illegals.


Last time I checked, when you have your own business, you hire the people that work under you and you don't answer to this they. How do you own your own business, but at the same time were forced you to be a foreman over illegals ? This nonsense you are spewing on here is full of more holes than swiss cheese.


So I ask again


What part of Texas ? Laredo ? Mc allen ? San antonio ?



Your lack of answer says it all.

I stepped on residential jobsites for 13 years within a 90 mile radius of Houston and never once saw these mythical illegal alien plumbers you cry about.

[Stevo]

Love the excuse about how they forced you to work with illegals.


Last time I checked, when you have your own business, you hire the people that work under you and you don't answer to this they. How do you own your own business, but at the same time were forced you to be a foreman over illegals ? This nonsense you are spewing on here is full of more holes than swiss cheese.

I was never forced by anyone to work with illegals, I was tired of seeing and dealing with them on a daily basis daily on jobsites. Tired of having to wait on illegals to finish dirt work and listen to excuses in spanish, tired of them not being able to answer questions about crucial matters pertaining to the jobsites. I never employed an illegal when I was working for myself. Now, when I worked for several other companies, I had worthless illegals that worked under me, I eventually decided that I rather not work for a company that wanted to fill it's ranks with illegal aliens.



So I ask again


What part of Texas ? Laredo ? Mc allen ? San antonio ?

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/images/usa/texas.jpg



Your lack of answer says it all.

I stepped on residential jobsites for 13 years within a 90 mile radius of Houston and never once saw these mythical illegal alien plumbers you cry about.

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on both accounts. I bet you didn't see the 'mythical' illegal alien concrete workers, the 'mythical' illegal framers, or the 'mythical' illegal roofers either. I'm afraid I'll need you to prove it to me before I can even consider the validity of either of these comments.

Stevo

[Mr Majestyk]

If I hear the word "transparent" used much more by the media I'm going to hurl.

[Zfan]

If I hear the word "transparent" used much more by the media I'm going to hurl.

No shit!!!

[Zfan]

Just like I wouldn't blame everything on Bush I would not blame it all on Obama. Pelosi, Reed, Biden, Boxster, now that scares me.

[Miss D]

Just like I wouldn't blame everything on Bush I would not blame it all on Obama. Pelosi, Reed, Biden, Boxster, now that scares me.

That is scary, but there is enough blame to go back for at least the last 15 years. We have been building this house of cards for at least that long. Now it is tumbling down!

New York Times
By JACKIE CALMES and ROBERT PEAR
Published: February 25, 2009
WASHINGTON — President Obama will propose further tax increases on the affluent to help pay for his promise to make health care more accessible and affordable, calling for stricter limits on the benefits of itemized deductions taken by the wealthiest households, administration officials said Wednesday.

This was the lead story in the New York Times: I'm not against the idea, but, I would just like to know has anyone ever made any really great paying salaries off a poor man. We owned a business and we paid good wages and Christmas bonuses if we had a great year but that was it. My friend works for a great company gets wonderful checks & bonuses that are as much as a year’s salary & every year the whole company goes on a week long trip/cruise or did until this year. :stooges:

[Juiceweezl]

There is plenty of commercial construction still going on. If you knew half as much as you acted like you do, you'd know that developers can't just shut down a project once the capital and debt are committed. Of course a year from now new construction will be as dead as your dick. Once all the new construction is absorbed, that's when rents will start to rise. It's part of the cycle.

And if you want to get technical about it, Bush's economy was fantastic for new development and transactions of existing buildings. I'm not sure how much easier you can get when money can be had for 5.5%.

LOL!


You people saying that new construction isn't happening, are fucking idiots. It's happening, you're just too goddamned blind to see it.

I'll answer both of you at once. Again, I work for a manufacturer or construction products (commercial and residential). Commercial starts were up, and in some areas are still up. However, money is being pulled left and right for many of the projects. Don't believe me, just take the Hwy 5/121/75 area in McKinney. Yes, there are a few building going up there, but 2 have lost funding AFTER the dirt work was practically completed. Last month, a large apartment project going up in Myrtle Beach had funding pulled AFTER several slabs were poured. We had $240K going to that project. The same week, we lost $80K going to a similar job in Tampa. This time they met the concrete trucks on site and stopped them before they started. Form work and bar were done already. I can think of at least 3 other projects in Florida alone that have been shut down after dirt work has started already.

I could go on and on and show you projects if you want. Certain areas (like McKinney and Frisco) where people had a ton of debt are seeing lots of apartments going up. That's because those people are losing houses and apartment demand will go up. In other areas, construction is simply stopping until money comes back. We've even seen some military housing projects suspended in the middle of a second or third phase.

So, go ahead and spew some more discrediting all you want. The facts are there. I deal with this crap on a daily basis. I know the truth. As for SteveO or whomever was trying to compare illegal plumbers to people driving with no license, PFFFT!!! Unfortunately, police do not go and look for/inspect drivers UNLESS they have a reason to pull someone over. Plumbing work has to be inspected and signed off on. Again, I've seen Hispanic laborers on sites, and even Hispanic plumbers. The plumbers have always been licensed and spoke English and typically knew what was required by the local jurisdiction. Sorry you're hung up on your failed business of years ago.

[Juiceweezl]

Federal taxes no, but any extra money out of my pocket for any kind taxes because of this mess is hurting me. I may be an idiot but you do not have the capability to understand the “wonderful trickle down effect” that the government has been kind enough to shove down our throats for the last 15 years. "]" We have to live with the implosion now"[/COLOR] When the economy get so bad that people are out of work, then they don’t go buy any thing, so the states don’t collect any sales taxes to give back to the city’s or counties or schools. So the city’s, counties & schools go to the county assessor collectors office and tell them they need more money, that is when they go out and raise the property values and believe me they are going up, up and away and yes that is a form of tax to all the people I know. I guess you must live in an apartment or your mortgage co. pays your property taxes and you don’t have any idea that you have one. :smashfreakB:

Property values have been going up, yes. Mine jumped like 30K in the last cycle. However, housing prices had gone up tremendously since I bought the house in 2001. I should be paying taxes on the fair value of it. My house would still list today for $50K more than I paid for it. My taxes should be based somewhere near true value. They are still $30K below what it would list for now. The superficial home prices in many areas created the inflated numbers. All that equity that everyone loved created the higher property values. It's only reasonable to expect to pay taxes on it. If you think you should only have to pay the taxes on the dirt alone, then you're asking for a handout no different than all the liberals everyone here condemns.

As for someone trying to raise it now, good luck. With as many foreclosures that are out there, practically every property value is down. Just a little paperwork pulling some recent comps would prevent a large jump in property value. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

Oh, and LMAO at you for a) saying I live in an apartment or that my mortgage company pays my taxes and b) you using "trickle down" as a stab at Obama. I own my house, pay my taxes without an escrow (I'm not stupid enough to allow a mortgage company to hold thousands of my dollars for a year and collect interest), and "trickle down" is that wonderful economic theory of another "genius." That plan was laughed at and ridiculed by every economic professor I ever had. I love how you reference the last 15 years, blah, blah, blah but are on the band wagon to bash Obama.

[bullet]

I'll answer both of you at once. Again, I work for a manufacturer or construction products (commercial and residential). Commercial starts were up, and in some areas are still up. However, money is being pulled left and right for many of the projects. Don't believe me, just take the Hwy 5/121/75 area in McKinney. Yes, there are a few building going up there, but 2 have lost funding AFTER the dirt work was practically completed. Last month, a large apartment project going up in Myrtle Beach had funding pulled AFTER several slabs were poured. We had $240K going to that project. The same week, we lost $80K going to a similar job in Tampa. This time they met the concrete trucks on site and stopped them before they started. Form work and bar were done already. I can think of at least 3 other projects in Florida alone that have been shut down after dirt work has started already.

I could go on and on and show you projects if you want. Certain areas (like McKinney and Frisco) where people had a ton of debt are seeing lots of apartments going up. That's because those people are losing houses and apartment demand will go up. In other areas, construction is simply stopping until money comes back. We've even seen some military housing projects suspended in the middle of a second or third phase.

So, go ahead and spew some more discrediting all you want. The facts are there. I deal with this crap on a daily basis. I know the truth. As for SteveO or whomever was trying to compare illegal plumbers to people driving with no license, PFFFT!!! Unfortunately, police do not go and look for/inspect drivers UNLESS they have a reason to pull someone over. Plumbing work has to be inspected and signed off on. Again, I've seen Hispanic laborers on sites, and even Hispanic plumbers. The plumbers have always been licensed and spoke English and typically knew what was required by the local jurisdiction. Sorry you're hung up on your failed business of years ago.



You are wasting your breath bro, even when confronted with FACTS these fools still don't accept reality. Why should they ? It's the repubicunt way, never admit you are wrong even when the FACTS clearly show it.

[Juiceweezl]

You are wasting your breath bro, even when confronted with FACTS these fools still don't accept reality. Why should they ? It's the repubicunt way, never admit you are wrong even when the FACTS clearly show it.

LMAO!!! I wouldn't even classify me as a big Obama fan. In fact, I disagree with a lot of the bailout plan. I'm just sick and tired of everyone blasting him and making Bush holier than thou. He was and is an idiot -- just like his father. I don't know if Obama is the best thing for the country right now. I do know that McCain and Palin were a joke and that things would really, really be bad if they were calling the shots.

The other thing that pisses me off is that all the so called "Americans" want us (the President and in turn our country) to fail just so they can say, "See, I told you so!" Where is your sense of loyalty to your country? Obama is the elected leader of our country for the next 4 years at least. Deal with it and move on. Support our country and get behind something instead of blasting out negativity. I seem to remember a recent election where the Democratic candidate that had more votes lost the election. The system we have is what we have. Stop bitching and support our country or GTFO!!!

[Juiceweezl]

Just like I wouldn't blame everything on Bush I would not blame it all on Obama. Pelosi, Reed, Biden, Boxster, now that scares me.

Mike, you are correct. Pelosi is a very, very scary. Now, someone tell that witch to sit down and stop clapping.

[bullet]

JUICEWEEZEL 2012



:biggrin:

[Zfan]

Amen Brother!

The next few years are going to be scary no matter who runs this Country. We are literally owned by China, Korea and Japan. What if they decide to stop purchasing our debt? Will we like other Countries have done to us just tell them screw you? Prepare for a real mess. Heaven help us!

[bcoop]

So, go ahead and spew some more discrediting all you want. The facts are there. I deal with this crap on a daily basis. I know the truth.

A large portion of the customers I sell to, are subcontractors. Granted, it's on the commercial side, but construction is construction. We did somewhere around $125MM in sales last year, out of a small company of 30 people.


BWW is building 500 new stores over the next 4.5 years. I could name many more, that are putting up new stores left and right.


Yeah, I know the truth as well. Dumbass.

[AL P]

I'll answer both of you at once. Again, I work for a manufacturer or construction products (commercial and residential). Commercial starts were up, and in some areas are still up. However, money is being pulled left and right for many of the projects. Don't believe me, just take the Hwy 5/121/75 area in McKinney. Yes, there are a few building going up there, but 2 have lost funding AFTER the dirt work was practically completed. Last month, a large apartment project going up in Myrtle Beach had funding pulled AFTER several slabs were poured. We had $240K going to that project. The same week, we lost $80K going to a similar job in Tampa. This time they met the concrete trucks on site and stopped them before they started. Form work and bar were done already. I can think of at least 3 other projects in Florida alone that have been shut down after dirt work has started already.

I could go on and on and show you projects if you want. Certain areas (like McKinney and Frisco) where people had a ton of debt are seeing lots of apartments going up. That's because those people are losing houses and apartment demand will go up. In other areas, construction is simply stopping until money comes back. We've even seen some military housing projects suspended in the middle of a second or third phase.

So, go ahead and spew some more discrediting all you want. The facts are there. I deal with this crap on a daily basis. I know the truth. As for SteveO or whomever was trying to compare illegal plumbers to people driving with no license, PFFFT!!! Unfortunately, police do not go and look for/inspect drivers UNLESS they have a reason to pull someone over. Plumbing work has to be inspected and signed off on. Again, I've seen Hispanic laborers on sites, and even Hispanic plumbers. The plumbers have always been licensed and spoke English and typically knew what was required by the local jurisdiction. Sorry you're hung up on your failed business of years ago.

If a developer has debt and equity for his project they are going to build. Whether it makes sense or not. That's my point. There are projects that do lose either equity or debt funding but that has nothing to do with my statement. We still have four projects under construction.

You said "The Bush economy had killed all new construction" and that is a blatantly false statement on your part. It is absurd to call it the "Bush economy" to begin with but we'll ignore that. The economy for the last 8 years was fantastic for buying, selling or building. In 2004 we borrowed $28 million on a 30 year note, 5 years interest only at 3.8% interest. Those days won't return anytime soon. To give another idea the volume of commercial real estate transactions in 2008 were down SEVENTY percent compared to 2007. That's how good it was.

[AL P]

Property values have been going up, yes. Mine jumped like 30K in the last cycle. However, housing prices had gone up tremendously since I bought the house in 2001. I should be paying taxes on the fair value of it. My house would still list today for $50K more than I paid for it. My taxes should be based somewhere near true value. They are still $30K below what it would list for now. The superficial home prices in many areas created the inflated numbers. All that equity that everyone loved created the higher property values. It's only reasonable to expect to pay taxes on it. If you think you should only have to pay the taxes on the dirt alone, then you're asking for a handout no different than all the liberals everyone here condemns.

As for someone trying to raise it now, good luck. With as many foreclosures that are out there, practically every property value is down. Just a little paperwork pulling some recent comps would prevent a large jump in property value. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

Oh, and LMAO at you for a) saying I live in an apartment or that my mortgage company pays my taxes and b) you using "trickle down" as a stab at Obama. I own my house, pay my taxes without an escrow (I'm not stupid enough to allow a mortgage company to hold thousands of my dollars for a year and collect interest), and "trickle down" is that wonderful economic theory of another "genius." That plan was laughed at and ridiculed by every economic professor I ever had. I love how you reference the last 15 years, blah, blah, blah but are on the band wagon to bash Obama.

Assessors use comp information that is one year behind in most counties. Not only that but they don't do a new assessment every year.

I'm interested in how "All that equity that everyone loved created the higher property values". Please explain.

[bullet]

A large portion of the customers I sell to, are subcontractors. Granted, it's on the commercial side, but construction is construction. We did somewhere around $125MM in sales last year, out of a small company of 30 people.


BWW is building 500 new stores over the next 4.5 years. I could name many more, that are putting up new stores left and right.


Yeah, I know the truth as well. Dumbass.



Key word's "last year" as in 2008 the peak of the commercial boom



http://www.reedconstructiondata.com/news/2009/02/construction-spending-decline-accelerates/?nid=4267

But what is worrisome is the 8 to 10 % growth in commercial every year is now predicted to be down in 2009 to flat /slightly up in 2010. Of course I'm sure some of that stimulus will help the actual numbers come in higher.

[bcoop]

Key word's "last year" as in 2008 the peak of the commercial boom


Can you fucking read? Yeah, we did $115MM 'last year'. We will only be slightly down at the end of this year, as in under 10% down.

That doesn't affect what BWW, Jason's Deli, and hundreds of other chains are doing. BWW convention is next week, and they have said thousands of times that the current economy has not, and will not affect their plans to build 500 stores in the time frame they originally gave. They aren't blowing smoke, either. These are signed contracts/commitments. They've been coming out at the correct pace, for them to achieve their goal as well.





http://www.reedconstructiondata.com/news/2009/02/construction-spending-decline-accelerates/?nid=4267




LOL @ relying on Reed for info. Reed is a fucking joke.

[bullet]

We did somewhere around $125MM in sales last year, out of a small company of 30 people.


.



which is it 115 mil or 125 mil ?


Reeds can be anything you want but is the chart derived from the U.S. Census Bureau and Department of Commerce data from previous years a joke ?

[bcoop]

which is it 115 mil or 125 mil ?

$125. Typo.


Reeds can be anything you want but is the chart derived from the U.S. Census Bureau and Department of Commerce data from previous years a joke ?

I didn't even click on the link, because Reed is about as reliable as a Kia. They got boycotted about 7 years ago.

[bullet]

, we did $115MM 'last year'. We will only be slightly down at the end of this year, as in under 10% down.

.






The debate is about if commercial construction is growing or declining.

How does your declining sales prediction for 2009 support that it is ?

[AL P]

But what is worrisome is the 8 to 10 % growth in commercial every year is now predicted to be down in 2009 to flat /slightly up in 2010. Of course I'm sure some of that stimulus will help the actual numbers come in higher.


Oh noes!! A normal real estate cycle is "worrisome". Shut the fuck up, you ass clown. You know as much about real estate as you do about building a rocket to go to the fucking moon.

[AL P]

The debate is about if commercial construction is growing or declining.

How does your declining sales prediction for 2009 support that it is ?

No one said commercial construction is increasing. Wipe that Obama jizz out of your eyes and fucking read.

[bullet]

$125. Typo.




I didn't even click on the link, because Reed is about as reliable as a Kia. They got boycotted about 7 years ago.


All the chart shows is that commercial spending went from double digit growth every year until peaking in 2008 and is now predicted to be flat or slighty down for 2009 and 2010. The residential table is flat out scary and illustrates the bubble and the after effects.

[Juiceweezl]

Assessors use comp information that is one year behind in most counties. Not only that but they don't do a new assessment every year.

I'm interested in how "All that equity that everyone loved created the higher property values". Please explain.

Ummm, the equity that was created by superficial property values with people flipping homes. Houses kept ascending in value thus creating lots of equity. Someone paid 200K for a house while 9 months later the same house was selling for 300-325K. That's equity. That ascnesion led to higher appraisals which, as you pointed out are behind in the timeline. Now, values have dropped real time, but assessors are using those inflated numbers that everyone loved.

People were using the equity to buy and flip houses. What part of that don't you get?

[AL P]

Ummm, the equity that was created by superficial property values with people flipping homes. Houses kept ascending in value thus creating lots of equity. Someone paid 200K for a house while 9 months later the same house was selling for 300-325K. That's equity. That ascnesion led to higher appraisals which, as you pointed out are behind in the timeline. Now, values have dropped real time, but assessors are using those inflated numbers that everyone loved.

People were using the equity to buy and flip houses. What part of that don't you get?

You mean cheap debt created higher property values. I don't know anyone who sank $10K in equity into a $200K home, flipped it for $350K and then put in $160K in equity in the next one. I guess you could if you were someone with the mental capacity of a dog turd (like bullet) but it would make little sense if you could borrow at 5.5%. Or you could use that equity to buy a third house and do the same. Debt is how you make money in real estate, not equity.

[bullet]

Ummm, the equity that was created by superficial property values with people flipping homes. Houses kept ascending in value thus creating lots of equity. Someone paid 200K for a house while 9 months later the same house was selling for 300-325K. That's equity. That ascnesion led to higher appraisals which, as you pointed out are behind in the timeline. Now, values have dropped real time, but assessors are using those inflated numbers that everyone loved.

People were using the equity to buy and flip houses. What part of that don't you get?



I would think he would understand that simple concept since he is the donald trump of dfw stangs.



On older homes, most county appraisals will be lower than the selling price of the house. The main exception is on a new home where there is a lien and you pay a builder x and finance the majority.

[AL P]

I would think he would understand that simple concept since he is the donald trump of dfw stangs.

My hair is way too nice.

[Juiceweezl]

You mean cheap debt created higher property values. I don't know anyone who sank $10K in equity into a $200K home, flipped it for $350K and then put in $160K in equity in the next one. I guess you could if you were someone with the mental capacity of a dog turd (like bullet) but it would make little sense if you could borrow at 5.5%. Or you could use that equity to buy a third house and do the same. Debt is how you make money in real estate, not equity.

People were buying homes, using the equity once the values went up to buy another home while then selling the first. As values continued going up, the process continued. In Florida, there were lots that would change hands 4-5 times before a house was even started. Even then, it would be sold 2-3 more times before construction was finished. Tons of people got caught with multiple properties when the market crashed. Debt is how to make money in real estate if you're buying foreclosures. These were new homes being financed by equity created by superficial home prices/values.

[Juiceweezl]

No one said commercial construction is increasing. Wipe that Obama jizz out of your eyes and fucking read.

I'm not going back to read and find it, but one of your lackeys was swearing that commercial construction was BOOMING now.

[Juiceweezl]

Can you fucking read? Yeah, we did $115MM 'last year'. We will only be slightly down at the end of this year, as in under 10% down.

That doesn't affect what BWW, Jason's Deli, and hundreds of other chains are doing. BWW convention is next week, and they have said thousands of times that the current economy has not, and will not affect their plans to build 500 stores in the time frame they originally gave. They aren't blowing smoke, either. These are signed contracts/commitments. They've been coming out at the correct pace, for them to achieve their goal as well.

BWW is a solid business/chain. Yes, they are expanding, and yes, their plan was a good one. They do not plan to slow down, but I can promise you this. If their income starts to fall and they show significant drops, they'll slow down or stop building some new locations. It's a fact. Yes, they have probably signed a contract to build X number of locations, but I'm sure there's an opt out clause, even if it comes with paying a penalty. They didn't just decide last week to build all the new locations. Plans are made a long time out, probably when things were booming. They'll continue with the plan until the bottom line begins seeing effects of a slower economy. If they don't see the effects, they'll blaze on.

Now, I think I'm going to head there for lunch thanks to you. I love some Asian Zing!!!!

[bcoop]

BWW is a solid business/chain. Yes, they are expanding, and yes, their plan was a good one. They do not plan to slow down, but I can promise you this. If their income starts to fall and they show significant drops, they'll slow down or stop building some new locations. It's a fact. Yes, they have probably signed a contract to build X number of locations, but I'm sure there's an opt out clause, even if it comes with paying a penalty. They didn't just decide last week to build all the new locations. Plans are made a long time out, probably when things were booming. They'll continue with the plan until the bottom line begins seeing effects of a slower economy. If they don't see the effects, they'll blaze on.



Man I don't know what I'd do without you here to tell my how the industry I work in operates.

As for if things slow down -- What I'm saying, is that shit hasn't slowed down one bit. They're ordering equipment for stores that are 6-12 months out.


Now, I think I'm going to head there for lunch thanks to you. I love some Asian Zing!!!!



Life's too short to eat shitty food. Sorry about your luck.

[Juiceweezl]

Man I don't know what I'd do without you here to tell my how the industry I work in operates.

As for if things slow down -- What I'm saying, is that shit hasn't slowed down one bit. They're ordering equipment for stores that are 6-12 months out.

Life's too short to eat shitty food. Sorry about your luck.

Fine, BWW is doing well. Try telling all those recently unemployed people that things are booming.