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Nate
09-19-2008, 02:36 PM
Recieved this from a friend of a friend financial genious guy...seems sound to me.

"Dear Friends and Fellow Investors:

Please know I am thinking about you during this time and welcome a personal discussion as well. I have sent this message to help you keep things in perspective and offer ideas that could help you actually benefit from these market conditions.

While corrections from the excesses in the credit markets continue to unfold, the broader markets have been dropping along with investor confidence. Is this opportunity or Armageddon? While end-of-world theorists abound, the reality is that scenario is highly unlikely and if it happened money would have no value anyway. If you are concerned about things, that's understandable, but take comfort in knowing that things will turn around as they did after previous bear markets. For those accumulating shares for their future, this situation can actually present a golden opportunity. Nonetheless, worries abound: are we in for another depression? (No) Is America on the economic ropes and going down? (No) I will not get into a detailed discussion on the great depression and how we are in a completely different world and situation now, but in a nutshell the probability of that happening again is highly improbable and not worthy of serving as the basis for any sound financial decisions. Regarding the state of America, we have taken our lumps but are still by far the strongest, most innovative and productive country in the world and have an unprecedented level of influence and confluence on the rest of the world. In essence, the rest of the world has a vested interest in us and our stability. The problems we're seeing out there are finite and digestible. Once we work through this, the world as we know it will go on basically as usual, albeit with ongoing changes and adjustments, as always.

To paraphrase Nick Murray, "...any right minded investor should embrace a bear market..." To paraphrase legendary fund manager Peter Lynch, "Far more money has been lost by those trying to time the market and avoid declines than has been actually lost on market declines". Why is this advice so difficult to heed?

As with the 15 prior bear markets since 1945, the recoveries have been consistent and in many cases dramatic. Although the specifics differ -- in the early 1970s it was the other oil crisis, in the early 1980s it was the soaring inflation and the S&L crisis, in the 90's the Asian contagion crisis... To paraphrase Mr. Murray again, "we have seen this movie many times before and know how it ends" (Namely, with a recovery and ensuing bull market). Such is the nature of market cycles. This is not to say the worst has passed, insofar as market declines and companies being wiped out. We are in the midst of a cleansing process. There are many less obvious reasons to be optimistic and to have faith in the resilience of the systems --- that they will acclimate themselves to the ever-changing realities as they always have. Despite all these problems, our economy has yet to experience a recession although we may see one later this year. Like a tech bubble or credit bubble, a 'fear' bubble can also develop, and at some point the fear pendulum can swing too far. Headlines such as "unemployment jumps by 20%" sounds dramatic until you realize that it only increased by 1%, from 5% to 6%, and on the bright side, 94% have jobs, not to mention those earning income 'under the table'. I just read that 1 out of 36 home loans are in foreclosure, up from 1 in 71 a year ago. While that is a practically a 100% increase, it is still only 2.78% of the loans -- not exactly shocking in the wake of the massive housing froth and credit binge -- and hardly portending a widespread calamity of epic proportions resulting in food lines. The overly aggressive entities are now paying for their excess. This is a healthy and necessary part of the self-correcting nature of the markets. In the case of AIG, the government's intervention to facilitate a more orderly correction process appears to be the logical and sensible move in my opinion, based on the scale and breadth of AIG being so enmeshed in systems and companies throughout the world. AIG has not been given a 'free lunch' nor have they been subsidized by the taxpayers, as the government now holds an 80% ownership stake and will benefit from and share in their recovery as any other shareholder. While this may not be a good trend for the government to own a growing number of formerly public companies, one could argue that we are all in this together and need to help each other out at times.

As with previous bear markets, the present market conditions present opportunities for the calm and calculated investor to capitalize and potentially build wealth in a number of ways. For some reason, the base logic of "buying low and selling high" becomes highly challenging during dark periods for otherwise rational folks. The reasons are many and varied, but basically because, as humans we are heavily influenced by the two counter-productive forces of greed and fear. We also have the tendency to extrapolate current or recent conditions and performances out into the future, however irrational and opposite that logic is and has been as compared to reality over the past. The past has shown us that, the darker it gets the brighter the eventual recovery.

Investing requires a leap of faith, as with pretty much everything in life worth achieving, and entails taking some risks and enduring challenges along the way. There are really no guarantees in life, just probabilities. There is no guarantee the sun will come up tomorrow, but the odds are pretty high that it will. With investing, while we don't know what will happen day to day or year to year, we know that over the long term the odds are highly likely we will see attractive returns on our capital that will help enable our families to live comfortably.
"

Jack Gibbs

Casper
09-19-2008, 03:20 PM
Yes!

Go with alternate energy, even if you are wrong you will have shout-out on some wiki page as a diehard.

after all, what would Chuck Norris do?

thesource
09-19-2008, 03:26 PM
I am shopping around my self looking for bargains as well . I've said the same thing about our money . If the markets and banks fail , what good is our money ???? Might as well try to invest it and hope things turn around .

The way I look at it is this ....... I have maybe $20K tied up in stocks while the big boys have millions and billions tied up . If they are willing to let it all go down the shitter and do nothing to stop it , well then I guess I lose $20K as well . I'm betting they stop the bleeding and are going to want to make their money back as soon as possible .

Casper
09-19-2008, 03:46 PM
There is a startup which claims they can build a machine that can run forever on gravity and it only takes a few million to buy in. Sounds like only the big boys are involved but with $20k I can get you a hooup. :D

Seriously, everything is down. It is summer. Th fur coat market couln't be better ;)

thesource
09-19-2008, 04:07 PM
There is a startup which claims they can build a machine that can run forever on gravity and it only takes a few million to buy in. Sounds like only the big boys are involved but with $20k I can get you a hooup. :D

Seriously, everything is down. It is summer. Th fur coat market couln't be better ;)

Where do I send the check ? Keep an eye out for it . It will be the one post marked Nigeria ........ ;)

Casper
09-19-2008, 04:53 PM
Where do I send the check ? Keep an eye out for it . It will be the one post marked Nigeria ........ ;)

I can arrange the balance transfer, I have done so sucesfuly for general babeyetungombe I will need yor account information and roughly a $50 dummy transaction amount to insure security...

Dacotua
09-19-2008, 04:59 PM
Stocks are on sale!!!

01WhiteCobra
09-19-2008, 05:03 PM
buy 'em up boys.

The problem with a bear market is catching the bottom. Sure stuff looks cheap... if the markets fall another 20% are they still cheap?

AL P
09-19-2008, 05:08 PM
I'm talking all my money and stuffing it in a matress. Fuck this guy!!

AL P
09-19-2008, 05:11 PM
buy 'em up boys.

The problem with a bear market is catching the bottom. Sure stuff looks cheap... if the markets fall another 20% are they still cheap?

Oh whatever, this thing is over. Somebody flip the switch and make the S&P go to 1550 already.

01WhiteCobra
09-19-2008, 05:25 PM
Oh whatever, this thing is over. Somebody flip the switch and make the S&P go to 1550 already.

Yea, I mean, the NASDAQ is at 2000 levels now, right? We just re-valued the NASDAQ because it was getting too high. Sort of like a 2.5 to 1 stock split.

thesource
09-19-2008, 05:35 PM
Trying to find the bottom is something thats more luck than skill . Its just like trying to find the top . While the markets very well could be in for some more ass kickings , they could also start to go bullish again just as easily . At this point , you just have to look at the glass and figure out whether its half full or half empty . What ever you decide , be ready to squeeze the trigger on it regardless of which way it decides to go and don't forget to take some profits off the table .

Hell I heard Buffet lost something like 17 billion this year in the markets . Right now its anyones guess what this cluster fuck is going to do .

slow99
09-19-2008, 05:44 PM
Trying to find the bottom is something thats more luck than skill . Its just like trying to find the top . While the markets very well could be in for some more ass kickings , they could also start to go bullish again just as easily .

I don't know why you'd ever stray from your risk-free, guaranteed, 75% EAY strategy.

01WhiteCobra
09-19-2008, 05:49 PM
Trying to find the bottom is something thats more luck than skill . Its just like trying to find the top . While the markets very well could be in for some more ass kickings , they could also start to go bullish again just as easily . At this point , you just have to look at the glass and figure out whether its half full or half empty . What ever you decide , be ready to squeeze the trigger on it regardless of which way it decides to go and don't forget to take some profits off the table .

Hell I heard Buffet lost something like 17 billion this year in the markets . Right now its anyones guess what this cluster fuck is going to do .

I'm a trend trading moron.

When the markets show me they want to go up, I'll be more than glad to waste that first 10% up.

Same when with the top. I won't call the top. I'll wait for the market to convince me the top in is. I'll lose some points at the top but, hey, that's the market.

I want the middle 80%.

thesource
09-19-2008, 06:26 PM
I don't know why you'd ever stray from your risk-free, guaranteed, 75% EAY strategy.

I never said I was . I am still trading about 70% of my portfolio this way . The other 25-30% are long shots and gambles . I bought LEH the other day for $.21 share . The next day it was delisted to the OTC and dropped even further . I bought more at .11 a share . Will it pull up some ??? Who knows but for me it was worth the risk . It might not be worth the risk for you .

I personally do not believe the government and all the big dogs are going to let mass fortunes go down in flames . I do not agree with buy outs but why not make a buck or two off of the news by taking a chance with the scraps left over from the slaughter ????

MadMax404m
09-19-2008, 06:59 PM
Trying to find the bottom is something thats more luck than skill . Its just like trying to find the top . While the markets very well could be in for some more ass kickings , they could also start to go bullish again just as easily . At this point , you just have to look at the glass and figure out whether its half full or half empty . What ever you decide , be ready to squeeze the trigger on it regardless of which way it decides to go and don't forget to take some profits off the table .

Hell I heard Buffet lost something like 17 billion this year in the markets . Right now its anyones guess what this cluster fuck is going to do .

Most know what it is going to do. They all know this will be a financial crisis that no one could imagine(not many are spilling it to the public though). I am talking about jumping out of buildings bad. The govt bail-outs are pushing for this even further. We pulled out of the market a few months ago and have invested in gold instead. When this hits rock bottom, paper dollars and stocks are going to be worthless. I might be looking at this to negativly but everything that has been going on in the last 8 months along with the new found "bail-out" attitude of the govt, all of it has me convinced its going to hit, and its going to hit hard.

01WhiteCobra
09-19-2008, 09:13 PM
Will it pull up some ??? Who knows but for me it was worth the risk . It might not be worth the risk for you .


Explain the risk/reward probabilities of Lehman to me.

If not, it is not investing (which it isn't), it is not trading (which it wouldn't be)... it would be gambling.

TexasDevilDog
09-19-2008, 09:17 PM
<--Capital preservation mode.

This is not over, just because the government has a plan. Show me one command economy that has worked well. :o

Shorts are a viable part of the market. They allow for a downside bet to offset the upside bet. This slowly forces down bad companies over months. Without them, we will see more stocks that just gap down one day when there is not enough buying interest, on bad news of a company. A 80% loss in one day will cause more panic in the market than loosing 80% over a couple months.

TexasDevilDog
09-19-2008, 11:10 PM
a thousand words from past history

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/files/dow_october_29.PNG

thesource
09-20-2008, 08:26 AM
Explain the risk/reward probabilities of Lehman to me.

If not, it is not investing (which it isn't), it is not trading (which it wouldn't be)... it would be gambling.


Of course its gambling but its also trading as well since I do not plan on holding it for a long period of time . LEH came from $50-60 a share and free fell to .05 a share . It can only fall another .0499 a share from that point . But if and at this point is a big IF the government bails them out or someone steps up and buys more of the company , we as share holders might get something . Even if we do not , there is a shit load of confusion on just about every single stock board I have been on about what LEH is going to do . This alone I feel could be worth a significant bounce from the lows or even from where I am averaged in at .

Let me make this clear , I am not expecting it to return to any where near its normal trading range . I am looking for a .30-.50 cent profit from my average which will give me a 150-300% profit margin . Its nothing more than a lotto ticket at this point but I feel like the odds are a lot better than that of a lotto ticket .

thesource
09-20-2008, 08:31 AM
Shorts are a viable part of the market. They allow for a downside bet to offset the upside bet. This slowly forces down bad companies over months. Without them, we will see more stocks that just gap down one day when there is not enough buying interest, on bad news of a company. A 80% loss in one day will cause more panic in the market than loosing 80% over a couple months.


You might be right about shorts in the market . I know from reading several boards on stocks that the short positions are something most frown on so I doubt most average people are going to miss them much . Most of the naked short positions are held by large firms and brokers . They are the ones , IMO , that have the most to lose here if they cannot sell the market without actually having the shares to cover them not the average Joe .

01WhiteCobra
09-20-2008, 08:43 AM
Of course its gambling but its also trading as well since I do not plan on holding it for a long period of time . LEH came from $50-60 a share and free fell to .05 a share . It can only fall another .0499 a share from that point . But if and at this point is a big IF the government bails them out or someone steps up and buys more of the company , we as share holders might get something . Even if we do not , there is a shit load of confusion on just about every single stock board I have been on about what LEH is going to do . This alone I feel could be worth a significant bounce from the lows or even from where I am averaged in at .

Let me make this clear , I am not expecting it to return to any where near its normal trading range . I am looking for a .30-.50 cent profit from my average which will give me a 150-300% profit margin . Its nothing more than a lotto ticket at this point but I feel like the odds are a lot better than that of a lotto ticket .

Gambling is not trading. Trading is not gambling.

Trading is poker. You are playing craps.

thesource
09-20-2008, 08:58 AM
Gambling is not trading. Trading is not gambling.

Trading is poker. You are playing craps.

Then lets hope for a 7 or 11 ....... :cool:

01WhiteCobra
09-20-2008, 11:28 AM
Then lets hope for a 7 or 11 ....... :cool:

Good luck!

Personally I like hard eight. Play it for $100 each time I walk into the Casino for the first time of a stay. :D

TexasDevilDog
09-20-2008, 12:28 PM
You might be right about shorts in the market . I know from reading several boards on stocks that the short positions are something most frown on so I doubt most average people are going to miss them much . Most of the naked short positions are held by large firms and brokers . They are the ones , IMO , that have the most to lose here if they cannot sell the market without actually having the shares to cover them not the average Joe .

To realize their position, shorts have to cover sometime. At that point they are buyers in the market, which supports the market.

thesource
09-20-2008, 12:29 PM
Good luck!

Personally I like hard eight. Play it for $100 each time I walk into the Casino for the first time of a stay. :D

Fuck it , its only money . Not like its worth a whole hell of lot these days ........

thesource
09-20-2008, 12:56 PM
To realize their position, shorts have to cover sometime. At that point they are buyers in the market, which supports the market.

I will be real honest with you . I am not very smart when it comes to naked shorting . None of my accounts are approved for it so its not something I worry a whole lot about personally .

With that said , from what I understand , NSS is sort of like a pack of lions hunting down a wounded antilope . The antilope might be able to fend off one lion but two or three become too much to fight off . With naked shorting , these firms can sell so many shares both legally and illegally that a stock could take months or years if ever to recover . Why should brokers and firms be allowed to naked short or borrow customers shares to sell thus killing a stock ? If the company sucks and they fail to show profits to their share holders , wouldn't the stock naturally drop in value ?

I don't have a problem with buying puts or call options . I do not have a problem selling covered calls on stock you own . But to be able to sell something you do not own in hopes that you can ruin the stock price and buy it back later is wrong and should be stopped completely , IMO .

Another thing I have noticed is that if a certain broker is really short in a position , they will not let their customers buy that stock . They will only allow selling in the certain stock . This helps them keep their position secured and not to add to buying pressure of the stock . How is that fair ???

We talk about "odds" in investing / trading / gambling / what ever you want to call it but it seems NSS gives the house or in this case the brokers / market makers a definate advantage over its clients .

TexasDevilDog
09-21-2008, 10:17 PM
I will be real honest with you . I am not very smart when it comes to naked shorting . None of my accounts are approved for it so its not something I worry a whole lot about personally

Naked shorting is not legal, only borrowed shorting. Regulators didn't enforce the rules, and screwed the pooch. They need to bring back the up tick rule for shorting to prevent bear raids.