$ spent on Welfare - social and corporate

[1fastdem]

Here are the best number I could find for comparing the welfare budget of the US for the fiscal 2006. This was the most recent year with accurate numbers not estimates.

I found the article here that did the math:
http://polecolaw.newsvine.com/_news/2008/01/08/1212663-how-much-does-welfare-cost

And I double checked the numbers here:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy08/pdf/hist.pdf

Total Spent of Welfare - $354.3 Billion (1.9% of 2006 GDP)

This included the following - Medicaid, food stamps, family support assistance (AFDC), supplemental security income (SSI), child nutrition programs, refundable portions of earned income tax credits (EITC and HITC) and child tax credit, welfare contingency fund, child care entitlement to States, temporary assistance to needy families, foster care and adoption assistance, State children’s health insurance and veterans pensions.

If you subtract veterans benefits, Medicaid, and SCHIP you have welfare totaling - $117 billion (0.89% of GDP)

Now corporate welfare this year to Bear Stearns ($29 billion), AIG ($85 billion)FNMA (up to $100 billion) FHLMC (up to $100 billion) and this possible new Resolution Trust Corp (rumored to be $180 billion). This could equal the totals from 2006 Welfare totals. And easily surpass the smaller number of $117 billion. (I say could and here is why. It is impossible to know how this corporate welfare will work out. A Resolution Trust may end up making money if everything goes right. AIG may pay off the 'loan' on time with the 11% or so interest.)

But make no mistake the American public, that is you and I, are now the ultimate buyer of failed businesses. We did it in the Great Depression. We waited 40-50 years until the S&L fiasco. Now 20 years later this. Anyone think it will take 20 years before the next one?

[Slowhand]

I've got $20 that says that total welfare number skyrockets to above $500 billion/yr. within the next 4 years. Any takers?

[1fastdem]

I've got $20 that says that total welfare number skyrockets to above $500 billion/yr. within the next 4 years. Any takers?

Suckers bet. If welfare just keeps pace with the current inflation rate it would hit that.

[Vertnut]

Suckers bet. If welfare just keeps pace with the current inflation rate it would hit that.
Your Democrats will just add to that exponentially, with the $1 trillion that Barry has pledged to "programs".

[Sean88gt]

I've got $20 that says that total welfare number skyrockets to above $500 billion/yr. within the next 4 years. Any takers?

Obama is only proposing plans to fuck everyone's desire to succeed right in the asshole.

[Casper]

It absolutely is.

There is more than just corporate welfare as you described too. There is guaranteed fedearl flood insurance through FEMA. Funny how it really only kicks in if you own expensive beach property. And no I don't mean a shack on padre island.

There is Amtrak, at 1 billion plus a year. miniscule compared to the TSA. Airline transportation subsidies. Fuel subsidies. Ag subsidies. And then of course there are state and local exemptions all over for "growth opportunities" which are well intended but akin to putting the coyote in the chicken coop on the promise that he will make the chickens lay more eggs.

It all comes down to the width of the brush. If a little town of 200 people gets a proposal for a walmart, and all they have to do is exempt the property taxes, are they screwing the citizens? Not hardly, they are bringing in jobs, cheaper consumables, sales taxes and other things from around the region. But on the other hand what the hell is Jerry Jones bringing to arlington except debt, increased infrastructure costs and little else?

[1fastdem]

But on the other hand what the hell is Jerry Jones bringing to arlington except debt, increased infrastructure costs and little else?

Hey leave Jerry out of this. I live in Arlington. If my tax increase for the stadium does nothing for me except fix I-30 from collins to 360 and get rid of the last vestiges of the old 'turnpike' exits, it is worth it. I have wasted too much of my life at 30 and 360.

Now about 360 and the railroad bridge at Division St.

[Slowhand]

Suckers bet. If welfare just keeps pace with the current inflation rate it would hit that.

The math off of the top of my head tells me that it would take 10% inflation or so to hit that in four years. Sounds like you're the sucker.

[Casper]

Hey leave Jerry out of this. I live in Arlington. If my tax increase for the stadium does nothing for me except fix I-30 from collins to 360 and get rid of the last vestiges of the old 'turnpike' exits, it is worth it. I have wasted too much of my life at 30 and 360.

Now about 360 and the railroad bridge at Division St.

no shit, arlington is a nightmare.

Ironic that the reason they were able to buy this bid was that they are the largest city in the US with zero mass transit, and that is what they had always earmarked the remaining sales tax for.

I hope the fucking stadium falls in on top of them. Preferably when boston is there.

[1fastdem]

The math off of the top of my head tells me that it would take 10% inflation or so to hit that in four years. Sounds like you're the sucker.

I used 2006 numbers for this thread so add a couple years and that lowers the interest rates. I also rounded to get the $500 billion a year number.

PS-from the US governments budget estimates on page 133 at the bottom (the page 133 not the pdf file page 133). Here is what the estimate for 4 years in the future under current laws...

$468.9 Billion Dollars

[black01gt]

ItBut on the other hand what the hell is Jerry Jones bringing to arlington except debt, increased infrastructure costs and little else?
Unaffordable ticket prices. And $75 parking.....FUCK HIM!!!!! :mad:

* I took customers to the Eagles game....SWEET!

[Casper]

Unaffordable ticket prices. And $75 parking.....FUCK HIM!!!!! :mad:

Not to mention fucking up the rangers game parking.

I soooo wish Dallas had gotten it. Hard to imagine them being worse off, but I would still laugh.

[01WhiteCobra]

They both suck.

[black01gt]

They both suck.
Well of all the mean and underbellied insults thrown on this site..... :D

[01WhiteCobra]

Well of all the mean and underbellied insults thrown on this site..... :D

LOL.

The conservatives have hated all things FDR and the New Deal for 80 years. For 8 years, Mr. Conservative has been in the White House and for 16 of 18 years conservatives have controlled Congress.

Deregulation has ended in a huge mess and will be nothing more than a footnote in American history.

The last paragraph of the deregulation entry in encyclopedia will talk about how deregulation forced the US into becoming a massive socialist state.

You can't let the fox guard the hen house.

[Gripenfelter]

LOL.

The conservatives have hated all things FDR and the New Deal for 80 years. For 8 years, Mr. Conservative has been in the White House and for 16 of 18 years conservatives have controlled Congress.

Deregulation has ended in a huge mess and will be nothing more than a footnote in American history.

The last paragraph of the deregulation entry in encyclopedia will talk about how deregulation forced the US into becoming a massive socialist state.

You can't let the fox guard the hen house.

;)

[black01gt]

LOL.

The conservatives have hated all things FDR and the New Deal for 80 years. For 8 years, Mr. Conservative has been in the White House and for 16 of 18 years conservatives have controlled Congress.

Deregulation has ended in a huge mess and will be nothing more than a footnote in American history.

The last paragraph of the deregulation entry in encyclopedia will talk about how deregulation forced the US into becoming a massive socialist state.

You can't let the fox guard the hen house.
Yep. Yessir!!!

[Casper]

LOL.

The conservatives have hated all things FDR and the New Deal for 80 years. For 8 years, Mr. Conservative has been in the White House and for 16 of 18 years conservatives have controlled Congress.

Deregulation has ended in a huge mess and will be nothing more than a footnote in American history.

The last paragraph of the deregulation entry in encyclopedia will talk about how deregulation forced the US into becoming a massive socialist state.

You can't let the fox guard the hen house.

Is it truly "deregulation"?

It seems to have worked fairly well in telecom.

[01WhiteCobra]

Socialist state may be a little stronger since the people don't own the production.

Plutocracy may be a better term for describing where we are.

Of course you can also make the argument for too much government intervention... the first saving of an American corporation (Chrysler), Greenspan keeping rates too low and printing money like it was toilet paper, letting Fannie and Freddie lend to anyone with a heartbeat...

While I believe in personal responsibility and if people got themselves in a mess they should deal with it but something tells me the greedy bastards running these institutions didn't really give a shit.

Sort of like being a degenerate gambler in Vegas. The CEOs of the casinos will get on TV and tell you they don't want you in their casino if you have a problem while they are getting you a limo at the airport to get to their casino in style with a comp'd penthouse.

[black01gt]

Is it truly "deregulation"?

It seems to have worked fairly well in telecom.
Unless you actually NEED your phones and internet connection. Birch Telecom somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory....

[Gripenfelter]

Is it truly "deregulation"?

It seems to have worked fairly well in telecom.

It's worked great for electricity and cable. :rolleyes:

Yea that deregulation promised us soo much, like 100% broadband deployment for subsidies. All the while, we fall farther down the list on coverage, fiber, and speeds.

[Casper]

While I believe in personal responsibility and if people got themselves in a mess they should deal with it but something tells me the greedy bastards running these institutions didn't really give a shit.


I agree with the plutocracy analogy.

And you already know they did not give a shit, and I think had it planned a long time ago, waiting for it to unfold.

Who is solvent and what are they buying? Who is insolvent and being bailed out and/or bought? Why the disparity?

You know that those loans are mostly not owned by the original lender, right? What happened there? Smart companies vs dumb companies, but all with the same boardmembers?

yeah, okay ;)

[01WhiteCobra]

You know that those loans are mostly not owned by the original lender, right? What happened there? Smart companies vs dumb companies, but all with the same boardmembers?

I read an article awhile ago, I just can't find it at the moment, about the packaging of these loans into CDOs and getting sold over and over and over again while allowing a "servicing company" to handle payments, etc.

Well, when you get into foreclosure and are on your last days, who do you negotiate with? The holder of your note.

The service companies couldn't figure it out, when they did, the investors didn't have the customer support to handle the influx of phone calls, letters, attorneys, etc.

Crazy stuff.

I know I received a notice of foreclosure from Citimortgage last year for someone with MY LOAN NUMBER but for a property in Michigan and some random chick's name.

I called up Citi and they told me not to worry about it. I told them I wasn't worried about it but this random chick might want to know they were about to send the Sheriff over to her house in a few days.

The Indian told me they service many mortgage loans they don't own and it was a mistake I received the notice.

Click.

[Casper]

It's worked great for electricity and cable. :rolleyes:

Yea that deregulation promised us soo much, like 100% broadband deployment for subsidies. All the while, we fall farther down the list on coverage, fiber, and speeds.

It is sure a lot better than 10 years ago.

10 years ago phone service in parts of the midwest was still running literally on old barbed wire fences.

[Casper]

I read an article awhile ago, I just can't find it at the moment, about the packaging of these loans into CDOs and getting sold over and over and over again while allowing a "servicing company" to handle payments, etc.

Well, when you get into foreclosure and are on your last days, who do you negotiate with? The holder of your note.

The service companies couldn't figure it out, when they did, the investors didn't have the customer support to handle the influx of phone calls, letters, attorneys, etc.

Crazy stuff.

I know I received a notice of foreclosure from Citimortgage last year for someone with MY LOAN NUMBER but for a property in Michigan and some random chick's name.

I called up Citi and they told me not to worry about it. I told them I wasn't worried about it but this random chick might want to know they were about to send the Sheriff over to her house in a few days.

The Indian told me they service many mortgage loans they don't own and it was a mistake I received the notice.

Click.

I just implemented a project to deal with lawsuits because of that shit.

Why pay now when someone else may have to deal with it later? LOL!

[AL P]

Am I the only one who wants to insist that I get to buy my mortgage back from the lender for the value that it is currently worth?

It is certainly better than me buying it back indirectly from some lender via the government and then repaying....myself??...the full amount.

This is capitalism, I want to fucking capitalize.

[Casper]

I wonder if that's what some of these "pennies on the dollar" credit repair places do. Just negotiate for you to buy the loan back.

[TexasDevilDog]

Total Spent of Welfare - $354.3 Billion (1.9% of 2006 GDP)


$354.3 Billion is 1.9% of $18.646 Trillion, which is not the GDP for 2006. Something is wrong with a number or two.

[White trash wagon]

The last paragraph of the deregulation entry in encyclopedia will talk about how deregulation forced the US into becoming a massive socialist state.

Exactly, the largest increase in ths size of the Federal government, the largest increase in deficit spending and ultimately the socialization of the USA happened on the "conservatives" watch.

The "new deal" being hatched now makes the FDR New Deal programs look like a used car loan.

China will own us in 10 years

[1fastdem]

$354.3 Billion is 1.9% of $18.646 Trillion, which is not the GDP for 2006. Something is wrong with a number or two.

I need to post a correction. The above is correct and I made 1 mistake. The actual percentage of of GDP in 2006 is 2.7%. I did not figure the number correct on this. The rest of my math is correct though. (The 1.9% came from when I compared the current welfare % of GDP to what it was in 1962. I had a bunch of numbers down and lost track. I was not paying enough attention)

Also the GDP in 2006 was right around $13 trillion.

Honestly thanks for the correction. These discussions only work if we try to be factual and honest.

PS - I know some think I made 2 mistakes... the first in being a Dem :D

[Casper]

Exactly, the largest increase in ths size of the Federal government, the largest increase in deficit spending and ultimately the socialization of the USA happened on the "conservatives" watch.

The "new deal" being hatched now makes the FDR New Deal programs look like a used car loan.

China will own us in 10 years

I for one welcome my new overlords who are rumored to like fat girls with real bewbies.

[Slowhand]

$468.9 Billion Dollars

Oh. $40 billion dollars difference? Barry can make that up with a snap of his fingers.

[Casper]

I need to post a correction. The above is correct and I made 1 mistake. The actual percentage of of GDP in 2006 is 2.7%. I did not figure the number correct on this. The rest of my math is correct though. (The 1.9% came from when I compared the current welfare % of GDP to what it was in 1962. I had a bunch of numbers down and lost track. I was not paying enough attention)

Also the GDP in 2006 was right around $13 trillion.

Honestly thanks for the correction. These discussions only work if we try to be factual and honest.

PS - I know some think I made 2 mistakes... the first in being a Dem :D

oh yeah, weasel out, commie pinko fag. :D

When several orders of magnitude separate one from another then you have to compare apples to apples. lets just call it all welfare. lol

[1fastdem]

Oh. $40 billion dollars difference? Barry can make that up with a snap of his fingers.

See. Like I said 'suckers bet' Only a sucker would take you up on it. To easy for you to win. Set a better over/under like around $800 B and then I might take you up on it.

Also remember Vet benefits count. I believe we should take care of the returning Vets when Iraq and Afgan are done. Maybe a new GI college bill, etc. like after WWII. That will add to the amounts as well. They deserve it and it would get alot of support. Enough to pass no matter who suggests it.

[Casper]

See. Like I said 'suckers bet' Only a sucker would take you up on it. To easy for you to win. Set a better over/under like around $800 B and then I might take you up on it.

Also remember Vet benefits count. I believe we should take care of the returning Vets when Iraq and Afgan are done. Maybe a new GI college bill, etc. like after WWII. That will add to the amounts as well. They deserve it and it would get alot of support. Enough to pass no matter who suggests it.

Or just hire outsourced labor and you can deport them when you are done. Fuck a GI bill. You do the same thing with the nation's money supply, who says you can't trust them?

See, I got the solution no one wants :D