Two Minute Patriot Act read through

[Slowhand]

This is a quick summary/analysis I did for my government class. Requirements were only that it had to be a page long, so I apologize if it's a little bit brief, but I think that it's not a bad read for gaining comprehension of what the Patriot Act is in a very small nutshell; a lot of people get stuck at the wiretapping and enhanced surveillanced measures, and are completely unaware of the other things that the Patriot Act does. Excuse the hastily thrown together analysis of the public's opinion: it had to be done, and I threw it together to complete the asssignment:

The USA Patriot Act

What is it?

The USA Patriot act is actually an acronym which stands for “Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism.” It was introduced in the 1st session of the 107th Congress of the United States of America on October 24, 2001 as H.R. 3162.

Why was it introduced?

The USA Patriot act was introduced as a direct response to the terrorist attacks carried out by Islamic extremists on the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, New York on September 11, 2001. It was designed as a bill to hinder the advancement of terroristic ideals and motives throughout the US and the world, and to stop further terrorists attacks on US soil.

How does it work?

The Patriot Act was actually a series of acts, bills, and decrees that were all designed to form a cohesive layer of protection against terrorist attacks. The acts/bills/decrees fall into several subsections outlined in the bill, as listed at htpp://epic.org: Enhancing domestic security against terrorism, Enhanced Surveillance Procedures (wiretapping etc.), International Money Laundering Abatement, Protecting the Border, Removing Obstacles to Investigating Terrorism, Providing for Victims of Terrorism, Increased Intelligence Sharing, Strengthening of Laws Against Terrorism, and Improved General Intelligence.

What was the public’s reaction?

Public reaction was very negative to the Patriot Act. Many Americans believe it to be an unconstitutional violation of their rights as citizens of this country and that it should be repealed immediately. Others believe that the only reason you would have to fear the Patriot Act is if you had something to hide, and therefore the Act should remain in place. Both sides of the argument bring up valid points, yet both have their faults as well.

Those who say that the Patriot Act is an unconstitutional violation of their rights do have some bit of ground to stand on according to the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Amendment states that “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” It is fairly clear that Title II of the Patriot Act is in direct violation of the 4th amendment as no warrants need be issued to institute a wiretap or other “enhanced” surveillance technology.

However, those that disagree with Title II’s validity must also realize that it is only one small piece of the puzzle that is the Patriot Act. The whole of the Patriot Act is much larger than just Title II. Take for instance Title VII which focuses on the increased sharing of intelligence between US intelligence firms (i.e. FBI, CIA, DHS). Some may argue that if intelligence had been shared to the extent that it is today between the various intelligence offices in this country, 9/11 could have been prevented entirely. This portion alone provides a large amount of security for this country, something that didn’t exist before 9/11. In another example, we take Title III which focuses on International Counter Money Laundering. This section of the Patriot Act focuses on tracking offshore banking accounts through which terrorist organizations finance their operations. By tracking the flow of money, the intelligence bureaus of the US can find out not just who is carrying out the operations, but who is funding them, and where they’re being funded from, all of which is vital to preventing attacks.

The Patriot Act is bigger than Title II. Perhaps Title II is entitled on shaky ground; however, I see no reason to repeal an entire bill worth of quality intelligence acts in the name of one small piece to the puzzle. The time and resources lost restructuring the Patriot Act could prove to be fatal. I challenge the public to look at the whole of the Patriot Act, and not just the Patriot Act (Title II) that is presented to them by the media.

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

You're missing a comma after "New York, New York," in the "Why was it introduced?" paragraph.

[Slowhand]

You're missing a comma after "New York, New York," in the "Why was it introduced?" paragraph.

Thanks for the heads up.

[fast83]

the patriot act is a joke.,just like everythingelse thats happened since 2000

and as far as 911 goes,i think most of us know what really happpened.

everything that happens big is designed to happen the way for one reason or another.the reason that you get to hear isn't always the correct one.
yes sometimes we as a nation are straight up lied to and convinced to beleive something as being true when false.

nothing new,but definetly getting worse as time goes by.

[lowthreeohz]

and as far as 911 goes,i think most of us know what really happpened.

I've been in a coma since late 2000, can you fill me in?!

[Denny]

the patriot act is a joke.,just like everythingelse thats happened since 2000

and as far as 911 goes,i think most of us know what really happpened.

everything that happens big is designed to happen the way for one reason or another.the reason that you get to hear isn't always the correct one.
yes sometimes we as a nation are straight up lied to and convinced to beleive something as being true when false.

nothing new,but definetly getting worse as time goes by.
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?! Do you realize the amount of intellegence gathered against threatening sources that has led to the termination of acts carried out since this plan was put into effect?

As for your second statement, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?! Your statement leads me to believe that you don't think a group of Islamic terrorists, members of Al Qeida, backed by Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, acted against the people of the United States to kill the people that were killed on September 11th for the sole purpose of inflicting terror among the USA and the rest of the world. If you do think this way, then you must also not think there's an existing threat. Listen, bro, these guys are going out of their way to show you their intentions. That's the whole purpose of terrorism... to inflict terror. Even Helen Keller would be albe to see what happened on 9/11 AND what is currently happening in the world today.

[Paladin]

the patriot act is a joke.,just like everythingelse thats happened since 2000

and as far as 911 goes,i think most of us know what really happpened.

everything that happens big is designed to happen the way for one reason or another.the reason that you get to hear isn't always the correct one.
yes sometimes we as a nation are straight up lied to and convinced to beleive something as being true when false.

nothing new,but definetly getting worse as time goes by.

I might be worried if a person who thought like this guy actually was able to spell and punctuate properly. Luckily the tin foil hat guys never do! LOL

[HookEm]

http://www.e-pix.org/data/media/77/not_this_shit_again.jpghttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1166/1454018245_5986b5e6c1.jpg
http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/8531.jpg


the patriot act is a joke.,just like everythingelse thats happened since 2000

and as far as 911 goes,i think most of us know what really happpened.

everything that happens big is designed to happen the way for one reason or another.the reason that you get to hear isn't always the correct one.
yes sometimes we as a nation are straight up lied to and convinced to beleive something as being true when false.

nothing new,but definetly getting worse as time goes by.

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

<embed src="http://www.theonion.com/content/themes/common/assets/videoplayer/flvplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" wmode="transparent" width="400" height="355" flashvars="file=http://www.theonion.com/content/xml/76782/video&autostart=false&image=http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/CONSPIRACY_THEORY_article.jpg&bufferlength=3&embedded=true&title=9%2F11%20Conspiracy%20Theories%20%27Ridiculo us%2C%27%20Al%20Qaeda%20Says"></embed><br/><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/video/9_11_conspiracy_theories?utm_source=embedded_video">9/11 Conspiracy Theories 'Ridiculous,' Al Qaeda Says</a>

[Slowhand]

9/11 Conspiracy Theories 'Ridiculous,' Al Qaeda Says

lmao.

[Zarathustra]

Hilarious, that guys not even Arab...

And it's on the onion...


"Al-qaeda operative"

Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off

[Zarathustra]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?! Do you realize the amount of intellegence gathered against threatening sources that has led to the termination of acts carried out since this plan was put into effect?

Enlighten us.


As for your second statement, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?! Your statement leads me to believe that you don't think a group of Islamic terrorists, members of Al Qeida, backed by Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, acted against the people of the United States to kill the people that were killed on September 11th for the sole purpose of inflicting terror among the USA and the rest of the world. If you do think this way, then you must also not think there's an existing threat. Listen, bro, these guys are going out of their way to show you their intentions. That's the whole purpose of terrorism... to inflict terror. Even Helen Keller would be albe to see what happened on 9/11 AND what is currently happening in the world today.

You're absolutely insane, no other explanation can put a blanket over it.

[AL P]

You're absolutely insane, no other explanation can put a blanket over it.

As insane as that lady you posted as proof of a 9/11 conspiracy who thought that the 9/11 attacks were done with an orbital laser operated by the U.S. government?

[Zarathustra]

As insane as that lady you posted as proof of a 9/11 conspiracy who thought that the 9/11 attacks were done with an orbital laser operated by the U.S. government?

I don't remember what you're referring to, and that also seems to bit too outlandish for me to have posted that claiming that as proof. If I MAY have posted a link to that farce, it was overlooked while I was copying and pasting, and I surely did not argue that point out with you. A while back I posted numerous credible physicists, geologists, chemists, administrative figures, construction workers, eye-witness spectators, AND experienced demolition experts that all testified against the official report. I'm sure you remember...

[5.0_CJ]

Hilarious, that guys not even Arab...

And it's on the onion...


"Al-qaeda operative"

Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off

how do you know he's not an arab?

[Zarathustra]

Look at him!

THIS IS FROM THE ONION!!! Do you know what the Onion is?

[5.0_CJ]

Look at him!

THIS IS FROM THE ONION!!! Do you know what the Onion is?

you're a fucking racist. Remember when I said the illegal immigrants at the local gas station were mexicans.. and you said "How do you know they are mexicans?" and then went on to a full page of stupid ass rhetoric about how everyone on dfwstangs looks at someone and instantly makes assumptions.

Ah, once again, the tables have turned. Let's hear your elitist comeback and how you're above all this.

and yes, I know what the onion is. :rolleyes:

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

Hilarious, that guys not even Arab...

And it's on the onion...


"Al-qaeda operative"

Rolling on the floor laughing my ass offGeez, you're right again!

[Zarathustra]

you're a fucking racist. Remember when I said the illegal immigrants at the local gas station were mexicans.. and you said "How do you know they are mexicans?" and then went on to a full page of stupid ass rhetoric about how everyone on dfwstangs looks at someone and instantly makes assumptions.

Ah, once again, the tables have turned. Let's hear your elitist comeback and how you're above all this.

and yes, I know what the onion is. :rolleyes:

The fact that this is the onion we're talking about clearly makes your point very invalid. That guy is an actor, not some guys standing on the corner waiting for a job to roll around. The tables are turned, again.

[5.0_CJ]

The fact that this is the onion we're talking about clearly makes your point very invalid. That guy is an actor, not some guys standing on the corner waiting for a job to roll around. The tables are turned, again.

Um? How so? Since when does your employer determine your ethnicity and religion? Don't flatter yourself with false senses of grandeur, again.

[Zarathustra]

Um? How so? Since when does your employer determine your ethnicity and religion? Don't flatter yourself with false senses of grandeur, again.

Are you serious?
His employer did not determine his ethnicity and I said nothing of religion. Common sense told me he's not really an al-qaeda operative, you bloke.

The onion is a farcical news outlet where fake news is broadcast every day in an extremely satirical manner, why would a terrorist sit in on a nightly news panel and admit to and reveal the date of a terrorist attack? Did you watch the video? It's clearly fake, your little argument about the tables having been turned and the fact that I'm a racist is absolutely hilarious.

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

Are you serious?
His employer did not determine his ethnicity and I said nothing of religion. Common sense told me he's not really an al-qaeda operative, you bloke.

The onion is a farcical news outlet where fake news is broadcast every day in an extremely satirical manner, why would a terrorist sit in on a nightly news panel and admit to and reveal the date of a terrorist attack? Did you watch the video? It's clearly fake, your little argument about the tables having been turned and the fact that I'm a racist is absolutely hilarious.He's most likely not an al-Qaeda operative, but how do you know he's not Arab?

[Zarathustra]

Nice move, Bridges!

Well, for starters, his accent varies throughout the video, and its clearly fake, drops it very often. A simply done analysis of the guy's mannerisms and moth movements clearly tells you this. He talks with an american accent in half of the video!! I was trying to pick out 3 or 4 times and mark down the time/second that it happened, but he literally loses his accent for seconds at a time for half of the video. The second half of the video is really bad, the guy is clearly not Arab.

HEEEEELLLOOOOOOOOOO!!!!?????

You guys can't be serious...

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

Nice move, Bridges!

Well, for starters, his accent varies throughout the video, and its clearly fake, drops it very often. A simply done analysis of the guy's mannerisms and moth movements clearly tells you this. He talks with an american accent in half of the video!! I was trying to pick out 3 or 4 times and mark down the time/second that it happened, but he literally loses his accent for seconds at a time for half of the video. The second half of the video is really bad, the guy is clearly not Arab.

HEEEEELLLOOOOOOOOOO!!!!?????

You guys can't be serious...Oh, I see. If he speaks English with no accent, he can't have been born in the Middle East, and there's no way his parents were, either.

[Slowhand]

Oh, I see. If he speaks English with no accent, he can't have been born in the Middle East, and there's no way his parents were, either.

Well it's similar to the situation in which Mexican that doesn't use the terms 'S.A.' or 'Holmes' clearly isn't a Mexican. :rolleyes:

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

Well it's similar to the situation in which Mexican that doesn't use the terms 'S.A.' or 'Holmes' clearly isn't a Mexican. :rolleyes:Ese?

[Zarathustra]

If you're gonna put it like that anybody can be an al-qaeda operative and represent al-qaeda on the onion news network describing the next attack in detail and exchanging faceless banter with an author of a book that may or may not be real, ese.

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

If you're gonna put it like that anybody can be an al-qaeda operative and represent al-qaeda on the onion news network describing the next attack in detail and exchanging faceless banter with an author of a book that may or may not be real, ese.Why do you keep changing your argument? You said they're not Arab, and I want to know how you can tell. You're Arab, right?, and you don't have an accent.

[Slowhand]

Why do you keep changing your argument? You said they're not Arab, and I want to know how you can tell. You're Arab, right?, and you don't have an accent.

I think that he thinks that we think that the Onion is real and that the people on the Onion are real! LOL!

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

I think that he thinks that we think that the Onion is real and that the people on the Onion are real! LOL!They're real people, duh; they're just portraying fictional people.

[Slowhand]

They're real people, duh; they're just portraying fictional people.

goddamned semantics:o

[Zarathustra]

You're Arab, right?, and you don't have an accent.

Whoa!

No, not even close

[Zarathustra]

I think that he thinks that we think that the Onion is real and that the people on the Onion are real! LOL!

Did you really gather that from what I've typed?

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

Whoa!

No, not even closeI thought you were born in Iran. :confused:Did you really gather that from what I've typed?Yes, you referred to it being from The Onion a couple of times and asked if they knew what The Onion was, and then explained what it is anyways.

[Slowhand]

I thought you were born in Iran.

I believe that's StangPeddler or something similar, who now resides in (the great, uncapitalized) canada.

[slow99]

Lmao @ Tony not knowing what the onion is.

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

I believe that's StangPeddler or something similar, who now resides in (the great, uncapitalized) canada.I'm pretty sure Armand (Zara...) is, too; at least his parents were, which is kind of funny since they run/own a Tex-Mex restaurant.Lmao @ Tony not knowing what the onion is.Is that a fruit?

[Slowhand]

Is that a fruit?

lmao.

[5.0_CJ]

the reason you're being castigated is because you're a hypocrite. Numerous times you have commented to other forum members that they are stereotyping. Here you are stereotyping and it's completely fine for your to do it.

[Zarathustra]

the reason you're being castigated is because you're a hypocrite. Numerous times you have commented to other forum members that they are stereotyping. Here you are stereotyping and it's completely fine for your to do it.

Lies. And those that you are referring to mainly include yourself.

I was clearly not stereotyping. Common sense should tell you this. The evidence is there, I pointed it out. Did you watch the video, or are you arguing, again, from nothing?

[Zarathustra]

I'm pretty sure Armand (Zara...) is, too; at least his parents were, which is kind of funny since they run/own a Tex-Mex restaurant.Is that a fruit?

Mom's 100% Mexican, of Spanish descent.

[slow99]

I will say this, and I'll probably get flamed. Zara can make a decent argument for a lot of things in this forum. Now, I specifically remember Zara getting owned, in my opinion, on a thread about people being judgmental, then saying that truck drivers could be in Mensa, so Mensa obviously has no validity. That statement totally went against all assumptions about people, which was what he was trying to argue. However, I think he can make pretty valid statements sometimes, for argument's sake. I'm not saying that I agree with most of them. A member who's touting Mensa credentials and misspelling and using words improperly really gets to me, however. :o

[Pro88LX]

Mom's 100% Mexican, of Spanish descent.

wait a minute! so you're not a dune coon, you're a spic? and all this time.......... :o

[Zarathustra]

I will say this, and I'll probably get flamed. Zara can make a decent argument for a lot of things in this forum. Now, I specifically remember Zara getting owned, in my opinion, on a thread about people being judgmental, then saying that truck drivers could be in Mensa, so Mensa obviously has no validity. That statement totally went against all assumptions about people, which was what he was trying to argue. However, I think he can make pretty valid statements sometimes, for argument's sake. I'm not saying that I agree with most of them. A member who's touting Mensa credentials and misspelling and using words improperly really gets to me, however. :o

Now that shit is funny.

The purpose of an argument is to uncover a particular truth, or stepping stone to the truth, that brings us closer to understanding the concept at hand. Sometimes contradictions in arguments happen, and they're not abnormal, especially in this environment. That contradiction was pretty stupid of me, I'll admit, but I was reading a website about Mensa and I came across something about truck drivers. I don't want to take away from my point though, contradictions are healthy in an argument. Only when a pissing contest is arranged and egos are on the line do contradictions in arguments matter too much, I think.

[5.0_CJ]

Lies. And those that you are referring to mainly include yourself.

I was clearly not stereotyping. Common sense should tell you this. The evidence is there, I pointed it out. Did you watch the video, or are you arguing, again, from nothing?

And the evidence of me stating the illegal immigrants at the local gas station are mexican is not common sense? YOU are the one that argues like this, I just targeted your post to give you a dose of your own medicine. So when you insult me, you're insulting yourself... you just keep fucking falling into these traps, you have to be the easiest person to catch in traps I've ever seen.

[Zarathustra]

wait a minute! so you're not a dune coon, you're a spic? and all this time.......... :o

Easy man, with the epithets.

I'm half Persian, half Mexican.

Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

I just might know what the hell I'm talking about... :eek:

[5.0_CJ]

I will say this, and I'll probably get flamed. Zara can make a decent argument for a lot of things in this forum. Now, I specifically remember Zara getting owned, in my opinion, on a thread about people being judgmental, then saying that truck drivers could be in Mensa, so Mensa obviously has no validity. That statement totally went against all assumptions about people, which was what he was trying to argue. However, I think he can make pretty valid statements sometimes, for argument's sake. I'm not saying that I agree with most of them. A member who's touting Mensa credentials and misspelling and using words improperly really gets to me, however. :o

I made a typo on a single word in a post a few months ago and that's the only thing you have on me... seeing as you saw fit to mention that, it's pretty damn disgusting that you would think I could give a shit... It's pathetic.

[slow99]

Now that shit is funny.

The purpose of an argument is to uncover a particular truth, or stepping stone to the truth, that brings us closer to understanding the concept at hand. Sometimes contradictions in arguments happen, and they're not abnormal, especially in this environment. That contradiction was pretty stupid of me, I'll admit, but I was reading a website about Mensa and I came across something about truck drivers. I don't want to take away from my point though, contradictions are healthy in an argument. Only when a pissing contest is arranged and egos are on the line do contradictions in arguments matter too much, I think.

Yes, and I'm saying that I can at least appreciate the source from which some of your arguments originate, regardless if I agree with them or not. Anyone who has a blind position on something without the will to hear the other side of an argument, is ignorant, in my eyes. I can totally disagree, but I'm always willing to hear the other side.

[5.0_CJ]

....

[slow99]

Yeah, that was the same thread where I misspelled a single word and our little troll here jumped on it. Mispelling and using words improperly? Not likely. But, thanks for the kind words. You're not going to get under my skin like I do to Zara, I'm pretty confident people don't think I'm a tool.

I'm not trying to get under your skin. In fact, I disagree with damned near everything Zara posts. I'm simply saying that he at least has this forum going back and forth, which is probably his intent.

[Zarathustra]

And the evidence of me stating the illegal immigrants at the local gas station are mexican is not common sense? YOU are the one that argues like this, I just targeted your post to give you a dose of your own medicine. So when you insult me, you're insulting yourself... you just keep fucking falling into these traps, you have to be the easiest person to catch in traps I've ever seen.

You're the easiest person to miss a key premise I've ever seen.

The fact that you're not seeing the difference is laughable at best.

The non-Arab was on television, on a farcical news network. I was referring only to his ethnicity and general facial structure in my assumption of this.

It is common sense to see that all those people are Mexicans standing at the gas station, that is easily agreeable. The difference is you readily assumed that these people were illegal immigrants as well as mexicans.

Can you see now? Or do you need me to make you a power point?

[Zarathustra]

Yes, and I'm saying that I can at least appreciate the source from which some of your arguments originate, regardless if I agree with them or not. Anyone who has a blind position on something without the will to hear the other side of an argument, is ignorant, in my eyes. I can totally disagree, but I'm always willing to hear the other side.

Now that is a respectable dude. In every sense of the word.

That's how a rational adult should think and act.-- Especially these days.

[5.0_CJ]

You're the easiest person to miss a key premise I've ever seen.

The fact that you're not seeing the difference is laughable at best.

The non-Arab was on television, on a farcical news network. I was referring only to his ethnicity and general facial structure in my assumption of this.

It is common sense to see that all those people are Mexicans standing at the gas station, that is easily agreeable. The difference is you readily assumed that these people were illegal immigrants as well as mexicans.

Can you see now? Or do you need me to make you a power point?

Oh okay, I'm sorry... Zara is allowed to exercise racial profiling... I mean, that's really the only way you can win the argument, so it's a requirement for you to come to that conclusion. :rolleyes:

you do see how ridiculous this is, don't you? You accuse forum members of racial profiling, but when you do it, it's perfectly fine. That is precisely what is happening here.

[Pro88LX]

Easy man, with the epithets.

I'm half Persian, half Mexican.

Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

I just might know what the hell I'm talking about... :eek:

i don't think you could tell me anything that would lead me to believe you know what you are talking about.

[Pro88LX]

Oh okay, I'm sorry... Zara is allowed to exercise racial profiling... I mean, that's really the only way you can win the argument, so it's a requirement for you to come to that conclusion. :rolleyes:

you do see how ridiculous this is, don't you? You accuse forum members of racial profiling, but when you do it, it's perfectly fine. That is precisely what is happening here.

hes a minority (well a half breed of 2 minorities actually), so he's allowed.

[Zarathustra]

....

The physical manifestation of ignorance.

[Pro88LX]

I am the physical manifestation of ignorance.

orly?

[5.0_CJ]

The physical manifestation of ignorance.

I was flipping around 2 posts. You even talk shit about DOTS for christs sake, you're fucking weird.

[slow99]

I made a typo on a single word in a post a few months ago and that's the only thing you have on me... seeing as you saw fit to mention that, it's pretty damn disgusting that you would think I could give a shit... It's pathetic.

No, actually, I disagree with most of what Zara says and agree with a lot of what you post. I happened to come across a post or two where you were touting Mensa as a proof of your intelligence one night. No harm, no foul, I too am a member. I was just being stupid earlier with the comments about spelling and grammar. I'm not jumping on anyone's side, just making observations. I'd be happy to meet up and have a beer with you. It's all good, and I obviously haven't had as much exposure to this forum as other people. My bad. :o

[Zarathustra]

Oh okay, I'm sorry... Zara is allowed to exercise racial profiling... I mean, that's really the only way you can win the argument, so it's a requirement for you to come to that conclusion. :rolleyes:

you do see how ridiculous this is, don't you? You accuse forum members of racial profiling, but when you do it, it's perfectly fine. That is precisely what is happening here.

I'm not justifying my racial profiling, I'm saying I'm not racial profiling at all when I can see that a guy is clearly acting the part of an Arab in a costume on a farcical, satirical news show.

I see how ridiculous you're being, you just can't lose an argument and admit that you're wrong.

The logic is there absolute and concise, clear as daylight, I don't understand how you're still overlooking it. Should I copy and paste it again, for you to see? I feel like I'm talking to a 9 year old!!

[5.0_CJ]

I'm not justifying my racial profiling, I'm saying I'm not racial profiling at all when I can see that a guy is clearly acting the part of an Arab in a costume on a farcical, satirical news show.

I see how ridiculous you're being, you just can't lose an argument and admit that you're wrong.

The logic is there absolute and concise, clear as daylight, I don't understand how you're still overlooking it. Should I copy and paste it again, for you to see? I feel like I'm talking to a 9 year old!!

How can I loose an argument that I don't give a shit about? You just stated that his face structure was a hint you had he wasn't an arab? What exactly would that be, Zara? Would that be racial profiling? You honestly, have no fucking idea if he is an arab or not, you assume he is not, however you cannot know if he is, or if he isn't, that is complete fact. Yet, you don't see it this way, since it's a fake news story, you can racial profile him.

Here are the facts

You don't know if he is or is not an arab, it's impossible for you to know this by a picture and dialog. I'm a methodist, can you tell that by looking at my photo?

You are racial profiling because you have no idea outside of your own personal opinions.

You're not going to fabricate your la-la land in this thread like you do with other threads. You're racial profiling, it's fucking obvious... you even know you are, but you feel like you're obligated to make an excuse.

[Zarathustra]

No, actually, I disagree with most of what Zara says and agree with a lot of what you post. I happened to come across a post or two where you were touting Mensa as a proof of your intelligence one night. No harm, no foul, I too am a member. I was just being stupid earlier with the comments about spelling and grammar. I'm not jumping on anyone's side, just making observations. I'd be happy to meet up and have a beer with you. It's all good, and I obviously haven't had as much exposure to this forum as other people. My bad. :o

Don't let that pansy break you down so quickly, stand up for what you believe in. You don't need exposure to anything, all you need is the clear acceptance of diversity of opinion, and general understanding of human nature to realize that this guys just an egotistical asshole who likes to stifle dissent and foster this herd mentality that is clearly a huge problem in today's society. Open your mind, and the world is yours, close it, and this place is a prison.

[5.0_CJ]

Don't let that pansy break you down so quickly, stand up for what you believe in. You don't need exposure to anything, all you need is the clear acceptance of diversity of opinion, and general understanding of human nature to realize that this guys just an egotistical asshole who likes to stifle dissent and foster this herd mentality that is clearly a huge problem in today's society. Open your mind, and the world is yours, close it, and this place is a prison.

Pansy? Break you down? You've been back tracking and offering peace accords this whole evening with me. Now stay on topic and attempt to prove a completely ridiculous theory, I want you to sit here, and explain a lie to me.

[Zarathustra]

How can I loose an argument that I don't give a shit about? You just stated that his face structure was a hint you had he wasn't an arab? What exactly would that be, Zara? Would that be racial profiling? You honestly, have no fucking idea if he is an arab or not, you assume he is not, however you cannot know if he is, or if he isn't, that is complete fact. Yet, you don't see it this way, since it's a fake news story, you can racial profile him.

Here are the facts

You don't know if he is or is not an arab, it's impossible for you to know this by a picture and dialog. I'm a methodist, can you tell that by looking at my photo?

You are racial profiling because you have no idea outside of your own personal opinions.

You're not going to fabricate your la-la land in this thread like you do with other threads. You're racial profiling, it's fucking obvious... you even know you are, but you feel like you're obligated to make an excuse.

Wow, you're so wrong.

The fact that he's not of arab descent is plain as day. You're the idiot for arguing this point.

Hilarious...

In the ONION nonetheless!!!

[5.0_CJ]

Wow, you're so wrong.

The fact that he's not of arab descent is plain as day. You're the idiot for arguing this point.

Hilarious...

In the ONION nonetheless!!!

We better take this one question at a time, like a police officer does to a meth addict.

Does your place of employment determine your descent?

Yes or No, and we'll continue.

[5.0_CJ]

Apparently, either Zara is failing to follow directions because it would lead to his obvious defeat, or he's having a hard time with the word "No."

I've got work in the morning, so I'll make sure force this kid into realizing he's a hypocritical elitist trashcan tomorrow. As you can see, he replies within a few seconds of every one of my posts, but when you corner Zara, he runs away. Now, because I called him out on it, he'll be forced to re-enter the conversation do to his ego (you have to play him like a fiddle).

[slow99]

Don't let that pansy break you down so quickly, stand up for what you believe in. You don't need exposure to anything, all you need is the clear acceptance of diversity of opinion, and general understanding of human nature to realize that this guys just an egotistical asshole who likes to stifle dissent and foster this herd mentality that is clearly a huge problem in today's society. Open your mind, and the world is yours, close it, and this place is a prison.

Lol at "break me down." This is where I'll say, again, that I can at least appreciate both sides of an argument, regardless of the side with which I agree. I'm throwing out, at the risk of sure ridicule, that I at least appreciate where most of your arguments stem from, regardless if I agree with them or not. I've come too far and accomplished too many things over the last few years to let an opinion on an internet board affect anything I believe. I was simply stating that I was neither attacking, nor belittling, CJ, and that I can, at the very least, appreciate your opposing sides to most arguments on here. Can we all just have a damned beer together now, dammit?

[5.0_CJ]

Lol at "break me down." This is where I'll say, again, that I can at least appreciate both sides of an argument, regardless of the side with which I agree. I'm throwing out, at the risk of sure ridicule, that I at least appreciate where most of your arguments stem from, regardless if I agree with them or not. I've come too far and accomplished too many things over the last few years to let an opinion on an internet board affect anything I believe. I was simply stating that I was neither attacking, nor belittling, CJ, and that I can, at the very least, appreciate your opposing sides to most arguments on here. Can we all just have a damned beer together now, dammit?

I really don't think he'll ever meet us in person.

[Zarathustra]

Apparently, either Zara is failing to follow directions because it would lead to his obvious defeat, or he's having a hard time with the word "No."

I've got work in the morning, so I'll make sure force this kid into realizing he's a hypocritical elitist trashcan tomorrow. As you can see, he replies within a few seconds of every one of my posts, but when you corner Zara, he runs away. Now, because I called him out on it, he'll be forced to re-enter the conversation do to his ego (you have to play him like a fiddle).

You're about to get proven wrong, you better not run.

[Zarathustra]

I really don't think he'll ever meet us in person.

Why not?

What makes you think that? As long as it's not a dark alley I think we'll all be fine. We're all respectable adults, right?

[5.0_CJ]

You're about to get proven wrong, you better not run.

Uh, it's a yes or no question chief. You're failed before you even began your backpedaling post. I'm heading to sleep.

[Zarathustra]

I did a little research, mainly because the name of the guy in the video kind of rung a bell.

The book being discussed in the video is not real, fabricated.

The author is in fact not a real author. William Gerard, the "author" does not exist, and if he does, he definitely did not write "The truth about September 11th" like he said he did in the video.

Omar Al-Farouq (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5379604.stm) , Or the real Omar Al-Farouq, a real Al-Qaeda operative was killed in Basra, September 25 2006, by British Forces.

The picture of the real Omar Al-Farouq is there on the link in blue.

He looks absolutely nothing like the guy in the video, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say it was, in fact, not him.

Moreover, Al-Farouq died 2 and a half years ago. When did this video get posted? When did the 9/11 truth movement become more popular?

I don't know who the guy in that video is, but I'm sure he's not really Omar Al-Farouq.

The likelihood that they actually contracted an arab individual to play the part of 2 and a half years passed Al-qaeda operative is slim to none. Furthermore the evidence to support my claim is clearly apparent and should be able to be deciphered by any normal rational human being.

The difference here, is, you automatically assumed that those people you saw were illegal immigrants, merely because they outwardly appeared to be of Mexican descent, and went so far as to send a letter to the city of arlington to shoo them away for you. That, is racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) , what I did can be seen by many as merely a means of analysis. Can you imagine how many law suits the city would have been slapped with? Your line of reasoning is one that mirrors that of a person who lacks a fundamental understanding of human nature and an appreciation for the complexity of humanity as a whole. I merely said the guy's not an Arab, and that's pretty evident to most any person of sense.

You changing your argument in accusation of racism on my behalf to one of racial profiling is a logical admittance to your clear practice of racism in that you made the distinction between racism/xenophobia and racial profiling which does not logically follow, but only to make your argument appear stronger.

This is now not the case.

Racial Profiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_profiling) is completely from racism and xenophobia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia) .

Racial profiling is a means by which ethnic and racial characteristics are the sole measure of determining whether or not an individual would be more inclined to commit a certain illegal act or particular crime.

I was doing the exact opposite. Something everyone does when they look at any person. The fact that you're arguing about this coming from the onion is absolutely hilarious, sir. Further such masquerading of your inability to comprehend simple logical clarification only further makes your inability to concede and admit that you're wrong here more evident and also takes this argument to a whole new level of stupidity.

[Paladin]

Yes, and I'm saying that I can at least appreciate the source from which some of your arguments originate, regardless if I agree with them or not. Anyone who has a blind position on something without the will to hear the other side of an argument, is ignorant, in my eyes. I can totally disagree, but I'm always willing to hear the other side.

Can you not see zurethra as being exactly as your highlighted sentence describes?

[Zarathustra]

Can you not see zurethra as being exactly as your highlighted sentence describes?

When have I ever displayed reluctance to hear the many varying viewpoints surrounding an issue? The issue here is that there is only one common viewpoint shared by many.

[Zarathustra]

C.J. I thought you'd back down. You get proven wrong, so wrong, and cower away with your tail between your legs, this is just another one of those instances.

[Zarathustra]

Still waiting...

[5.0_CJ]

I did a little research, mainly because the name of the guy in the video kind of rung a bell.

The book being discussed in the video is not real, fabricated.

The author is in fact not a real author. William Gerard, the "author" does not exist, and if he does, he definitely did not write "The truth about September 11th" like he said he did in the video.

Omar Al-Farouq (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5379604.stm) , Or the real Omar Al-Farouq, a real Al-Qaeda operative was killed in Basra, September 25 2006, by British Forces.

The picture of the real Omar Al-Farouq is there on the link in blue.

He looks absolutely nothing like the guy in the video, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say it was, in fact, not him.

Moreover, Al-Farouq died 2 and a half years ago. When did this video get posted? When did the 9/11 truth movement become more popular?

I don't know who the guy in that video is, but I'm sure he's not really Omar Al-Farouq.

The likelihood that they actually contracted an arab individual to play the part of 2 and a half years passed Al-qaeda operative is slim to none. Furthermore the evidence to support my claim is clearly apparent and should be able to be deciphered by any normal rational human being.

The difference here, is, you automatically assumed that those people you saw were illegal immigrants, merely because they outwardly appeared to be of Mexican descent, and went so far as to send a letter to the city of arlington to shoo them away for you. That, is racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) , what I did can be seen by many as merely a means of analysis. Can you imagine how many law suits the city would have been slapped with? Your line of reasoning is one that mirrors that of a person who lacks a fundamental understanding of human nature and an appreciation for the complexity of humanity as a whole. I merely said the guy's not an Arab, and that's pretty evident to most any person of sense.

You changing your argument in accusation of racism on my behalf to one of racial profiling is a logical admittance to your clear practice of racism in that you made the distinction between racism/xenophobia and racial profiling which does not logically follow, but only to make your argument appear stronger.

This is now not the case.

Racial Profiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_profiling) is completely from racism and xenophobia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia) .

Racial profiling is a means by which ethnic and racial characteristics are the sole measure of determining whether or not an individual would be more inclined to commit a certain illegal act or particular crime.

I was doing the exact opposite. Something everyone does when they look at any person. The fact that you're arguing about this coming from the onion is absolutely hilarious, sir. Further such masquerading of your inability to comprehend simple logical clarification only further makes your inability to concede and admit that you're wrong here more evident and also takes this argument to a whole new level of stupidity.

You intentionally completely missed the point that I made crystal clear. I'm talking about the actor, the guy in the video. The actual guy they are making the satire of is obviously of no relation to my argument, We both know he is not the guy in the skit. We're talking about the actor, so everything in red is your attempt to change the subject. You have said he is not arab, althought you have no idea who the actor is, or what his genetic makeup is, you frankly don't know anything about him, but you racially profiled him, you even used his facial structure as evidence. It's clear as day you're attempting to tell me that actor is not an arab... but you can't possibly know the answer to that. The actual guy they are making fun of has absolutely no place in this argument at all, whatsoever, you are diverting attention from the argument you already understand but refuse to answer. You're trying to take the point of this conversation and run right out of the room with it. We have already established a) I know what the onion is. b) I understand this is a satirical skit and c) You're using the physical appearance of an actor to establish his race.

The underlined portions of your statement establish that you are citing a 'likelihood' that he is not arab, which is a confession on your part that you do not know his race, however the point of this argument is you're racially profiling. You just stated you don't know if he is an arab, when previously and throughout this entire argument you have said he is not, and are attemping to defend it.

Now, anyone with any intelligence can see you've lost this argument.

Also, I might add that the reason this argument as continued as long as it has, is because you're pandering a ridiculous attempt to get out of something you know damn well you did. You're so aggressive towards me because you know you've been caught and you just can't be wrong, it's not possible for Zara to be wrong. If this whole dialog was as stupid as you claim it to be, I would hardly think you would dedicate so much of your time to it.. I don't think you're fooling anyone with that line.

But, I digress to the original question you failed to answer.

Can you tell his race/religion by his photograph/voice.

Yes or No.

[Zarathustra]

You're using the physical appearance of an actor to establish his race.
The underlined portions of your statement establish that you are citing a 'likelihood' that he is not arab, which is a confession on your part that you do not know his race, however the point of this argument is you're racially profiling. You just stated you don't know if he is an arab, when previously and throughout this entire argument you have said he is not, and are attemping to defend it.


This is simply a means of logical analysis, not racial profiling. Racial profiling, by definition is the act of using those outward physical characteristics to determine a person's race in order to further determine whether or not that person is more apt to COMMIT A CERTAIN CRIME.

What I did is clearly not that.


Now, anyone with any intelligence can see you've lost this argument.


You're really that blind, aren't you?


But, I digress to the original question you failed to answer.

Can you tell his race/religion by his photograph/voice.

Yes or No.


Yes, it's absolutely obvious. That is not racial profiling because I did not discuss whether or not he was more apt to commit a particular crime or offense.

The point of this argument was you accusing me of RACISM, not racial profiling. You changing your argument from an accusation of racism to one of racial profiling can and will be tendered as your concession in this argument.

You lose this one, buddy.

Here's the original quote, and I will dissect the shit out of it. You are clearly wrong on every aspect of this, I will prove it.


you're a fucking racist.
This is clearly not the case.

Remember when I said the illegal immigrants at the local gas station were mexicans.. and you said "How do you know they are mexicans?"
Wrong.
You said the MEXICANS at the local gas station were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
To which I replied, "How do you know they're illegal immigrants?"
To which you (and a host of other board members) replied "Because they are mexican, anyone can tell they're illegal because they are mexican"

Racism, clear and concise. Assuming these people were illegal based on their outward appearance is racial profiling, racism, and xenophobia all wrapped up into one neat little package of intolerance.

Is your memory really that cloudy? I broke you down because of your outright and intentional admission of staunch racism and xenophobia, I'm surprised you don't remember better than that.

You are wrong.

I. Win.

[HookEm]

Get back in the kitchen, boy. Those tacos won't cook themselves.


This is simply a means of logical analysis, not racial profiling. Racial profiling, by definition is the act of using those outward physical characteristics to determine a person's race in order to further determine whether or not that person is more apt to COMMIT A CERTAIN CRIME.

What I did is clearly not that.



You're really that blind, aren't you?




Yes, it's absolutely obvious. That is not racial profiling because I did not discuss whether or not he was more apt to commit a particular crime or offense.

The point of this argument was you accusing me of RACISM, not racial profiling. You changing your argument from an accusation of racism to one of racial profiling can and will be tendered as your concession in this argument.

You lose this one, buddy.

Here's the original quote, and I will dissect the shit out of it. You are clearly wrong on every aspect of this, I will prove it.



This is clearly not the case.


Wrong.
You said the MEXICANS at the local gas station were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
To which I replied, "How do you know they're illegal immigrants?"
To which you (and a host of other board members) replied "Because they are mexican, anyone can tell they're illegal because they are mexican"

Racism, clear and concise. Assuming these people were illegal based on their outward appearance is racial profiling, racism, and xenophobia all wrapped up into one neat little package of intolerance.

Is your memory really that cloudy? I broke you down because of your outright and intentional admission of staunch racism and xenophobia, I'm surprised you don't remember better than that.

You are wrong.

I. Win.

[Zarathustra]

Get back in the kitchen, boy. Those tacos won't cook themselves.

You know I pay people like you to do my dirty work. You get to work, son.

[HookEm]

YOU don't pay anybody anything. Mommy and Daddy pay your way.
Now, get to stuffing.

You know I pay people like you to do my dirty work. You get to work, son.

[Vertnut]

YOU don't pay anybody anything. Mommy and Daddy pay your way.
Now, get to stuffing.
:D

[Zarathustra]

YOU don't pay anybody anything. Mommy and Daddy pay your way.
Now, get to stuffing.

Your plight is and will always be greater than mine. Cheers.

[HookEm]

Your plight is and will always be greater than mine. Cheers.
http://www.fuzzystacoshop.com/images/staff1.jpg

[5.0_CJ]

This is simply a means of logical analysis, not racial profiling. Racial profiling, by definition is the act of using those outward physical characteristics to determine a person's race in order to further determine whether or not that person is more apt to COMMIT A CERTAIN CRIME.

What I did is clearly not that.



You're really that blind, aren't you?




Yes, it's absolutely obvious. That is not racial profiling because I did not discuss whether or not he was more apt to commit a particular crime or offense.

The point of this argument was you accusing me of RACISM, not racial profiling. You changing your argument from an accusation of racism to one of racial profiling can and will be tendered as your concession in this argument.

You lose this one, buddy.

Here's the original quote, and I will dissect the shit out of it. You are clearly wrong on every aspect of this, I will prove it.



This is clearly not the case.


Wrong.
You said the MEXICANS at the local gas station were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
To which I replied, "How do you know they're illegal immigrants?"
To which you (and a host of other board members) replied "Because they are mexican, anyone can tell they're illegal because they are mexican"

Racism, clear and concise. Assuming these people were illegal based on their outward appearance is racial profiling, racism, and xenophobia all wrapped up into one neat little package of intolerance.

Is your memory really that cloudy? I broke you down because of your outright and intentional admission of staunch racism and xenophobia, I'm surprised you don't remember better than that.

You are wrong.

I. Win.

haha, I win? Did you wipe up the tears? Look at your childish backpedaling.. you go into the specifics of the definition, I fucking KNEW you would try that, it's the only way out now, your skyscraper just got hit by my 747 bitch and you're stuck on the top floor! Oh noes! Let's resort to google and wikipedia now!


You racially profiled him, you admitted it. You're so childish dude, you just don't have any self respect.. you won't even admit it. When it comes to your ego, you know no bounds...you've completely made a fool of yourself and you still want to continue the argument. I steered you right where I wanted you and forced you to admit it. I asked you if you racially profiled and you answered yes, you can't talk your way out of that.. your pandering doesn't mean shit anymore. Sig material - gg noob - you've made an ass out of yourself once again. This will stay my signature, and every time someone laughs at your dumb ass, I'll go ahead and pm you, and, whenever someone agrees with you, I'll pm you that, then we'll see what the consensus is, the democratic way.. Just remember every time you see this sig to not let your mouth out pace your intelligence.

[HookEm]

It's odd. He vanished right after I suggested a GTG at Fuzzy's....
Could be a co-winky-dink...but, maybe not.....


haha, I win? Did you wipe up the tears? Look at your childish backpedaling.. you go into the specifics of the definition, I fucking KNEW you would try that, it's the only way out now, your skyscraper just got hit by my 747 bitch and you're stuck on the top floor! Oh noes! Let's resort to google and wikipedia now!


You racially profiled him, you admitted it. You're so childish dude, you just don't have any self respect.. you won't even admit it. When it comes to your ego, you know no bounds...you've completely made a fool of yourself and you still want to continue the argument. I steered you right where I wanted you and forced you to admit it. I asked you if you racially profiled and you answered yes, you can't talk your way out of that.. your pandering doesn't mean shit anymore. Sig material - gg noob - you've made an ass out of yourself once again. This will stay my signature, and every time someone laughs at your dumb ass, I'll go ahead and pm you, and, whenever someone agrees with you, I'll pm you that, then we'll see what the consensus is, the democratic way.. Just remember every time you see this sig to not let your mouth out pace your intelligence.

[Zarathustra]

haha, I win? Did you wipe up the tears? Look at your childish backpedaling.. you go into the specifics of the definition, I fucking KNEW you would try that, it's the only way out now, your skyscraper just got hit by my 747 bitch and you're stuck on the top floor! Oh noes! Let's resort to google and wikipedia now!


You racially profiled him, you admitted it. You're so childish dude, you just don't have any self respect.. you won't even admit it. When it comes to your ego, you know no bounds...you've completely made a fool of yourself and you still want to continue the argument. I steered you right where I wanted you and forced you to admit it. I asked you if you racially profiled and you answered yes, you can't talk your way out of that.. your pandering doesn't mean shit anymore. Sig material - gg noob - you've made an ass out of yourself once again. This will stay my signature, and every time someone laughs at your dumb ass, I'll go ahead and pm you, and, whenever someone agrees with you, I'll pm you that, then we'll see what the consensus is, the democratic way.. Just remember every time you see this sig to not let your mouth out pace your intelligence.

I'm flattered.

This is great, so many people have me quoted in their sigs, it's ridiculous. It's a good feeling when people take such an interest in your work, they devote a certain little spot on every one of their posts to you. I'm honored, sir.

Blind envy at its finest.

[HookEm]

http://www.fuzzystacoshop.com/images/staff1.jpg

I'm flattered.

This is great, so many people have me quoted in their sigs, it's ridiculous. It's a good feeling when people take such an interest in your work, they devote a certain little spot on every one of their posts to you. I'm honored, sir.

Blind envy at its finest.

[5.0_CJ]

I'm flattered.

This is great, so many people have me quoted in their sigs, it's ridiculous. It's a good feeling when people take such an interest in your work, they devote a certain little spot on every one of their posts to you. I'm honored, sir.

Blind envy at its finest.

It's because your a tool. It's not just by luck that everyone on this site think's your a tool.

[lowthreeohz]

It's because your a tool. It's not just by luck that everyone on this site think's your a tool.


Touting MENSA credentials and can't use "you're" properly? Hmm..

[Zarathustra]

It's because your a tool. It's not just by luck that everyone on this site think's your a tool.

Everybody's a tool, in some way or another. Very bad word choice, especially from a purported MENSA member. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You speak for everyone? Since when?

[5.0_CJ]

Everybody's a tool, in some way or another. Very bad word choice, especially from a purported MENSA member. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You speak for everyone? Since when?

Nice change of subject, when someone types well over 100 words a minute, typos happen.

Just look at how childish you get, throwing your temper tantrums. Let's meet in person like you offered, don't change the subject. It's a never ending subject change for you, someone confronts you, you change the subject... you argue like a little child, constantly avoiding arguments. You request facts, people post them, you ignore it and change the subject. You get cornered about a stupid ass statement, you attack someones grammar, it's never ending with you... a constant loop of idiocy.

[Zarathustra]

Touting MENSA credentials and can't use "you're" properly? Hmm..

Exactly.

[5.0_CJ]

Exactly.

It's pretty damn sad when you feel so insignificant you have to summon friends to argue with you on the internet. Now respond to my questions and don't run like a bitch.

[Zarathustra]

Nice change of subject, when someone types well over 100 words a minute, typos happen.

Just look at how childish you get, throwing your temper tantrums. Let's meet in person like you offered, don't change the subject. It's a never ending subject change for you, someone confronts you, you change the subject... you argue like a little child, constantly avoiding arguments. You request facts, people post them, you ignore it and change the subject. You get cornered about a stupid ass statement, you attack someones grammar, it's never ending with you... a constant loop of idiocy.

OOoooOOOooohhh now you're in Mensa AND you type well over 100 words a minute?? Wow man, you're really a great guy, I'm so sorry I thought otherwise.

I'm not afraid to meet you, fucker, I never have been.

[Zarathustra]

It's pretty damn sad when you feel so insignificant you have to summon friends to argue with you on the internet. Now respond to my questions and don't run like a bitch.

ahahahahaha I've never met the guy, fucker. Seems like a cool dude though, we share common interests.

Seems like everyone isn't so behind you like you thought.

You're diggin the hole deeper man.

[5.0_CJ]

OOoooOOOooohhh now you're in Mensa AND you type well over 100 words a minute?? Wow man, you're really a great guy, I'm so sorry I thought otherwise.

I'm not afraid to meet you, fucker, I never have been.


Oh really? You run that damn keyboard so much it's a damn miracle you completely stopped posting in both threads... You're a little pussy dude, I know you are, you can't front forever.

[lowthreeohz]

It's pretty damn sad when you feel so insignificant you have to summon friends to argue with you on the internet. Now respond to my questions and don't run like a bitch.


Summon a friend? I don't even know this cat.

I find it entirely amusing that you can't use "you're" properly, twice, in two sentences.

It's not a typo, seeing as a typo would be "your'e or yo'ure", but you made a grammatical mistake instead.

I guess they don't worry about that kind of stuff in MENSA though, huh.

[5.0_CJ]

ahahahahaha I've never met the guy, fucker. Seems like a cool dude though, we share common interests.

Seems like everyone isn't so behind you like you thought.

You're diggin the hole deeper man.

What hole? you've done nothing in the 2 years I've been after you. The only thing you've ever done, is find 2 grammatical errors in my posts. And, every time we get into an actual debate, you frantically change the subject and start resorting to wikipedia and good as you always do. do you have any idea how rewarding it is to have someone touting superior knowledge of politics only have grammatical errors to cite against you? That is some weak 12 year old garbage, it's laughable.

[Zarathustra]

Oh really? You run that damn keyboard so much it's a damn miracle you completely stopped posting in both threads... You're a little pussy dude, I know you are, you can't front forever.

shakin in my boots man...

[5.0_CJ]

shakin in my boots man...

No, you're avoiding the subject. Where is your restaurant and name a time.

[5.0_CJ]

I guess it's taking a long time to make up an excuse why you can't meet me in person, I have to prepare for a debate tomorrow, I'll log back into your ego tomorrow.

[Zarathustra]

They must laugh at you...

[Vertnut]

No, you're avoiding the subject. Where is your restaurant and name a time.
I'm ready for some taco's in Denton, too.

You're ducking us, Zara. Here's your one shot to prove you're not a weinie...man up, and let's eat!

[HookEm]

Well, many people wan t to meet you.
http://www.fuzzystacoshop.com/images/staff1.jpg
This a good place?


OOoooOOOooohhh now you're in Mensa AND you type well over 100 words a minute?? Wow man, you're really a great guy, I'm so sorry I thought otherwise.

I'm not afraid to meet you, fucker, I never have been.

[Zarathustra]

I guess it's taking a long time to make up an excuse why you can't meet me in person, I have to prepare for a debate tomorrow, I'll log back into your ego tomorrow.

The poor kid gets all pissed off because I broke his ass down in yet another argument and now he wants to meet up with me so he can teach me a lesson. I sure hope you can act like a mature adult if we ever do meet.

[HookEm]

A crowd of people would like to meet you.
Fuzzy's in Denton, no?
http://www.fuzzystacoshop.com/images/staff1.jpg

The poor kid gets all pissed off because I broke his ass down in yet another argument and now he wants to meet up with me so he can teach me a lesson. I sure hope you can act like a mature adult if we ever do meet.

[Zarathustra]

A crowd of people would like to meet you.
Fuzzy's in Denton, no?
http://www.fuzzystacoshop.com/images/staff1.jpg

twice as good

[HookEm]

twice as good


That song came out long before you were a glimemr in your boss' eye.

So, when and where?

[Vertnut]

twice as good
You're still ducking me. Where are the restaurants? I'm willing to drive over an hour to Denton to eat somewhere I know nothing about. I'll do nothing more than eat, shake your hand, leave a tip, and leave...unless you spit (or worse) in my food, of course. I can assure you it will/would change the dynamic here on the board. Are you man enough to take this challenge?

[HobieF3]

What was the public’s reaction?

Others believe that the only reason you would have to fear the Patriot Act is if you had something to hide, and therefore the Act should remain in place. Both sides of the argument bring up valid points, yet both have their faults as well.



I want to shoot those people for completely misunderstanding what it means to be an American. However, I understand stupid people have every right to exist as the rest of us.

Or maybe they are the people that think Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, or Hussein's Iraq are nice places to live :dunno:

[Zarathustra]

You're still ducking me. Where are the restaurants? I'm willing to drive over an hour to Denton to eat somewhere I know nothing about. I'll do nothing more than eat, shake your hand, leave a tip, and leave...unless you spit (or worse) in my food, of course. I can assure you it will/would change the dynamic here on the board. Are you man enough to take this challenge?

I'm not ducking you, man. I'd never spit in your food, man. It definitely would change alot of the way people act toward me if they saw my face, and vice versa.

[Vertnut]

I'm not ducking you, man. I'd never spit in your food, man. It definitely would change alot of the way people act toward me if they saw my face, and vice versa.
I can't believe it, but I totally agree. Someone flag this post!

[fast83]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?! Do you realize the amount of intellegence gathered against threatening sources that has led to the termination of acts carried out since this plan was put into effect?

As for your second statement, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?! Your statement leads me to believe that you don't think a group of Islamic terrorists, members of Al Qeida, backed by Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, acted against the people of the United States to kill the people that were killed on September 11th for the sole purpose of inflicting terror among the USA and the rest of the world. If you do think this way, then you must also not think there's an existing threat. Listen, bro, these guys are going out of their way to show you their intentions. That's the whole purpose of terrorism... to inflict terror. Even Helen Keller would be albe to see what happened on 9/11 AND what is currently happening in the world today.
i beleive it was a false flag attack,a psychological attack on the american people by our own goverment.
i would like to believe that its all the way it was reported to be,but the evidence all shows otherwise.
why a falseflag attack? "problem,action,solution".
2 110 story buildings drop at free fall speed?10 SECONDS? in there own footprints?
then building 7 drops freefall style again in its own footprint?watch the videos of building 7 again.its an obvious pull.just like silverstein said.
no footage of the pentigon getting hit?one of the most secured buildings in america?
fighter jets on that asap?jell no the east coast was SHIT OUT OF LUCK.suspicous?
it goes on and on
ex president of italy along with thousands of others have come out calling it the way it is.a false flag manouver.building 7 was reported to have fallen already by the bbc when in the video footage of the reporter saying so,building 7 is standing in plain veiw right behind her.
numerous evidence shows alot more than 19 middle eastern hijackers flying planes into buildings that day.
they find one of the hijackers wallet laying on the sidewalk of one of the towers,unscathed? get real.this is what was reported to us.the american people where lied to my freind.
where is osama binladen now?lol the usa can find a mite on a chickens ass somewhere in the antartic but we still don't have binladen.
again i would love to believe what our media and elected officials tell us but damn.no politicians will even debate the issue of 911 with anyone asking the important questions.

most americans can't seem to open there own minds and consider something other than what there told.
they show there ignorance with little statements like "tin voil hats" "this guys punctuation"

i hope that one day we get the real answer for september 11,2001
the families of those killed deserve to have a full honest explanation of what happened and why they're family members where killed.

i have great respect for the families.and whoever is reponsible for 9/11 wether middle eastern hijackers or the usa goverment or ... i hope the truth comes out and justice be served in the stricktest of ways.

[Zarathustra]

i beleive it was a false flag attack,a psychological attack on the american people by our own goverment.
i would like to believe that its all the way it was reported to be,but the evidence all shows otherwise.
why a falseflag attack? "problem,action,solution".
2 110 story buildings drop at free fall speed?10 SECONDS? in there own footprints?
then building 7 drops freefall style again in its own footprint?watch the videos of building 7 again.its an obvious pull.just like silverstein said.
no footage of the pentigon getting hit?one of the most secured buildings in america?
fighter jets on that asap?jell no the east coast was SHIT OUT OF LUCK.suspicous?
it goes on and on
ex president of italy along with thousands of others have come out calling it the way it is.a false flag manouver.building 7 was reported to have fallen already by the bbc when in the video footage of the reporter saying so,building 7 is standing in plain veiw right behind her.
numerous evidence shows alot more than 19 middle eastern hijackers flying planes into buildings that day.
they find one of the hijackers wallet laying on the sidewalk of one of the towers,unscathed? get real.this is what was reported to us.the american people where lied to my freind.
where is osama binladen now?lol the usa can find a mite on a chickens ass somewhere in the antartic but we still don't have binladen.
again i would love to believe what our media and elected officials tell us but damn.no politicians will even debate the issue of 911 with anyone asking the important questions.

most americans can't seem to open there own minds and consider something other than what there told.
they show there ignorance with little statements like "tin voil hats" "this guys punctuation"

i hope that one day we get the real answer for september 11,2001
the families of those killed deserve to have a full honest explanation of what happened and why they're family members where killed.

i have great respect for the families.and whoever is reponsible for 9/11 wether middle eastern hijackers or the usa goverment or ... i hope the truth comes out and justice be served in the stricktest of ways.

They'll flame you for your spelling and punctuation, but you don't have to spell or for that matter speak right to know that we've been lied to. Common sense and logical analysis can always push through lack of ability to spell accurately, or use correct punctuation.

I commend you, sir.

Very good post, extremely well put, despite all the errors. These guys know what you're talking about.

If we were standing next to eachother, talking to one another, punctuation and spelling would be completely irrelevant.

I'd like to see somebody break down and refute and single one of those arguments. In fact I challenge anyone to say something, anything about ten of his arguments in that post.

I predict widespread herd mentality and/or 47 ad hominems and various insults in the first five responses to this post, after mine of course. :D

[HookEm]

I was going to actually respond to this, but it's pointless. How many pictures do you ahve to see of the Pentagon with airplane debris all around?

Provide a legitimate source, or qualify all of your posts with "But I'm just repeating what Alex Jones and the Christian Identify movement told me."

You claim to respect the dead, yet you try to blame our government. You REALLY think our government can keep that big of a secret? THINK for YOURSELF instead of parotting Alex friggin Jones.




i beleive it was a false flag attack,a psychological attack on the american people by our own goverment.
i would like to believe that its all the way it was reported to be,but the evidence all shows otherwise.
why a falseflag attack? "problem,action,solution".
2 110 story buildings drop at free fall speed?10 SECONDS? in there own footprints?
then building 7 drops freefall style again in its own footprint?watch the videos of building 7 again.its an obvious pull.just like silverstein said.
no footage of the pentigon getting hit?one of the most secured buildings in america?
fighter jets on that asap?jell no the east coast was SHIT OUT OF LUCK.suspicous?
it goes on and on
ex president of italy along with thousands of others have come out calling it the way it is.a false flag manouver.building 7 was reported to have fallen already by the bbc when in the video footage of the reporter saying so,building 7 is standing in plain veiw right behind her.
numerous evidence shows alot more than 19 middle eastern hijackers flying planes into buildings that day.
they find one of the hijackers wallet laying on the sidewalk of one of the towers,unscathed? get real.this is what was reported to us.the american people where lied to my freind.
where is osama binladen now?lol the usa can find a mite on a chickens ass somewhere in the antartic but we still don't have binladen.
again i would love to believe what our media and elected officials tell us but damn.no politicians will even debate the issue of 911 with anyone asking the important questions.

most americans can't seem to open there own minds and consider something other than what there told.
they show there ignorance with little statements like "tin voil hats" "this guys punctuation"

i hope that one day we get the real answer for september 11,2001
the families of those killed deserve to have a full honest explanation of what happened and why they're family members where killed.

i have great respect for the families.and whoever is reponsible for 9/11 wether middle eastern hijackers or the usa goverment or ... i hope the truth comes out and justice be served in the stricktest of ways.

[HookEm]

It's pointless. How many pictures of airplane debris in front of the Pentagon do we have to post? Youre the type of people that think the moon landing was done in a studio, and the Titantic was an insurance fraud.




They'll flame you for your spelling and punctuation, but you don't have to spell or for that matter speak right to know that we've been lied to. Common sense and logical analysis can always push through lack of ability to spell accurately, or use correct punctuation.

I commend you, sir.

Very good post, extremely well put, despite all the errors. These guys know what you're talking about.

If we were standing next to eachother, talking to one another, punctuation and spelling would be completely irrelevant.

I'd like to see somebody break down and refute and single one of those arguments. In fact I challenge anyone to say something, anything about ten of his arguments in that post.

I predict widespread herd mentality and/or 47 ad hominems and various insults in the first five responses to this post, after mine of course. :D

[Zarathustra]

It's pointless. How many pictures of airplane debris in front of the Pentagon do we have to post?

As many it takes for you to find the pictures of a tail section, 2 completely indestructible engines--like you always see in a plane crash, a fuselage, the wheels, seats--like you always see in a plane crash, black boxes, anything that would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a plane crashed there. The only pictures that are available are some people picking up small sections of unscathed, unburned aluminum a hundred yards of the impact site.

BULLSHIT.

Just keep eating it, you'll be alright.


Youre the type of people that think the moon landing was done in a studio, and the Titantic was an insurance fraud.

This is why I call you GeneralizeEm.

[HookEm]

You expect there to be much left after that type of impact? Seriously?
You can't use "always" in this scenario because we usually have an accident with the ground, not a super reinforced building, and we usually are trying to AVOID said ground, not ram it, and furthermore, we're usually not seeing crashes from that type of speed.

You are taking results from different speeds, different impact sites, and different pilot intentions, and expecting the end results to be the same.



As many it takes for you to find the pictures of a tail section, 2 engines--like you always see in a plane crash, a fuselage, the wheels, seats--like you always see in a plane crash, black boxes, anything that would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a plane crashed there.



This is why I call you GeneralizeEm.

[Zarathustra]

You expect there to be much left after that type of impact? Seriously?
You can't use "always" in this scenario because we usually have an accident with the ground, not a super reinforced building, and we usually are trying to AVOID said ground, not ram it, and furthermore, we're usually not seeing crashes from that type of speed.

You are taking results from different speeds, different impact sites, and different pilot intentions, and expecting the end results to be the same.

Yes. Absolutely.

There should have been large sections of that plane laying around, you and I both know that.

NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.

Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.

There's just no way those molecules could have just disappeared.

If you can find me one instance where the entire airplane evaporated, then your argument will be at the very least cogent.

The millions of tons of concrete in the both the WTC towers instantly turned into dust. You know what kind of pressure that takes?

[HookEm]

You're comparing apples to oranges. You want to take a different set of variables, and get the same results from them. It just does not work that way. It's like expecting the results from a crash at 180 miles an hr with the pedal mashed into a steel reinforced concrete wall , versus a wreck at 5 miles an hr with the brake jammed into a huge pile of leaves.

Furthermore, there WERE pieces of the plane, as I have posted here previously.

As far as your allegation that the WTC Towers "turned to dust," please tell me you are not being literal......


Yes. Absolutely.

There should have been large sections of that plane laying around, you and I both know that.

NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.

Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.

There's just no way those molecules could have just disappeared.

If you can find me one instance where the entire airplane evaporated, then your argument will be at the very least cogent.

The millions of tons of concrete in the both the WTC towers instantly turned into dust. You know what kind of pressure that takes?

[Zarathustra]

I'm goin to the bar, dude.

That post was bullshit.

You lose, again.

[HookEm]

As any responsible business owner would do at 1:30, with a restraunt to run in the morning.......

I'm goin to the bar, dude.

That post was bullshit.

You lose, again.

[fast83]

I was going to actually respond to this, but it's pointless. How many pictures do you ahve to see of the Pentagon with airplane debris all around?

Provide a legitimate source, or qualify all of your posts with "But I'm just repeating what Alex Jones and the Christian Identify movement told me."

You claim to respect the dead, yet you try to blame our government. You REALLY think our government can keep that big of a secret? THINK for YOURSELF instead of parotting Alex friggin Jones.
i dont remember seeing any engines wheels or anything of that nature come out of the pentigon.and if you look at the whole in the side of the building there is no way the plane they decribed made that hole.check it out for yourself.

and yes i respect our dead,i dont have to believe our goverment to do that.the goverment is not god you idiot.i think maybe you should listen to alex jones,you might learn something.

[fast83]

hey hookem,you will run out of excuses for what happened on 911 before i will,by far.

if you want to get into details and facts we can.you my friend are going to come up way short on info,way short.

[HookEm]

the pics have been posted here before.


i dont remember seeing any engines wheels or anything of that nature come out of the pentigon.and if you look at the whole in the side of the building there is no way the plane they decribed made that hole.check it out for yourself.

and yes i respect our dead,i dont have to believe our goverment to do that.the goverment is not god you idiot.i think maybe you should listen to alex jones,you might learn something.

[Zarathustra]

And they've also been smacked down here before.

The reason you won't post them up right now is because there are none. You're so apt to post up pictures all the time, why is this such an exception? Those pictures are hard to find because they're virtually non-existent outside photoshop's realm.

How does all the bullshit taste? You're scarfing it down without even smelling it.

[Vertnut]

And they've also been smacked down here before.

The reason you won't post them up right now is because there are none. You're so apt to post up pictures all the time, why is this such an exception? Those pictures are hard to find because they're virtually non-existent outside photoshop's realm.

How does all the bullshit taste? You're scarfing it down without even smelling it.
Woke up in a foul mood, did we? :cool:

[Zarathustra]

Woke up in a foul mood, did we? :cool:

It's a beautiful morning!

:D

[AL P]

Yes. Absolutely.

There should have been large sections of that plane laying around, you and I both know that.

NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.

Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.

There's just no way those molecules could have just disappeared.

If you can find me one instance where the entire airplane evaporated, then your argument will be at the very least cogent.

The millions of tons of concrete in the both the WTC towers instantly turned into dust. You know what kind of pressure that takes?

You mean someone used a star wars style space laser in orbit to knock the towers down?

That's the kind of bullshit "evidence" you posted last time we had this discussion. That, along with a bunch of links that didn't work and quotes from people that have absoltuley no idea about how a building should or would collapse. Here is an example:

"I'm the professor of foreign studies at (FILL IN THE BLANK) university and I say the buildings LOOK LIKE they were blown up with explosives..."

THAT'S the kind of crap you posted as "proof".

Then when I called your ass out on it you had nothing to say. You just ignored me.

[Yale]

It was impossible for the WTC buildings to fall the way they did. Watch any other building fall from instability. Then watch a building fall from a controlled demolition. Then watch the WTC towers fall. Why would all the major financial institutions in the WTC back their records up to offices in NJ in the weeks before? Now, do I think there's some world wide conspiracy? No. I think it was done to give us an excuse to hit an oil rich nation in the middle east, by a few folks who want to secure oil production away from OPEC.

[AL P]

And they've also been smacked down here before.

The reason you won't post them up right now is because there are none. You're so apt to post up pictures all the time, why is this such an exception? Those pictures are hard to find because they're virtually non-existent outside photoshop's realm.

How does all the bullshit taste? You're scarfing it down without even smelling it.

Pictures of plane wreckage at the pentagon are not hard to find.

I've posted them before.

Of course you said they didn't look like parts of planes. They look like parts from "a missile".

I worked in a shop that fabricated parts for Boeing, Bombardier, Lockheed, etc etc for years but still thats not good enough for you. You know what plane parts look like and I don't I guess.

[AL P]

Why would all the major financial institutions in the WTC back their records up to offices in NJ in the weeks before?

Are you insane? I have $1 that says they back up their records every night.

Jesus.

I mean, sweet Jesus, please for the love of god think for yourself for one second. Just one second.

[Vertnut]

Are you insane? I have $1 that says they back up their records every night.

Jesus.

I mean, sweet Jesus, please for the love of god think for yourself for one second. Just one second.
No shit! Hell, most companies do daily back-ups, especially involving finance.

[HookEm]

No, it's the same reason I don't waste time trying to blend oil and water. What's the point. I could show you a frame by frame video of the hit, and you'd say it was a Jewish conspiracy.

And they've also been smacked down here before.

The reason you won't post them up right now is because there are none. You're so apt to post up pictures all the time, why is this such an exception? Those pictures are hard to find because they're virtually non-existent outside photoshop's realm.

How does all the bullshit taste? You're scarfing it down without even smelling it.

[HookEm]

Controlled demolitions fall from the bottom down. The towers fell from the top down. Everyone ever interviewed in that business has laughed out loud at the possibility that this was a controlled demolition.



It was impossible for the WTC buildings to fall the way they did. Watch any other building fall from instability. Then watch a building fall from a controlled demolition. Then watch the WTC towers fall. Why would all the major financial institutions in the WTC back their records up to offices in NJ in the weeks before? Now, do I think there's some world wide conspiracy? No. I think it was done to give us an excuse to hit an oil rich nation in the middle east, by a few folks who want to secure oil production away from OPEC.

[Yale]

Consider me corrected, then. Thanks.

[Zarathustra]

It was impossible for the WTC buildings to fall the way they did. Watch any other building fall from instability. Then watch a building fall from a controlled demolition. Then watch the WTC towers fall. Why would all the major financial institutions in the WTC back their records up to offices in NJ in the weeks before? Now, do I think there's some world wide conspiracy? No. I think it was done to give us an excuse to hit an oil rich nation in the middle east, by a few folks who want to secure oil production away from OPEC.

And that's not a far bargain for 3000 or so lives, according to some people in power today.

Good post.

[Zarathustra]

You mean someone used a star wars style space laser in orbit to knock the towers down?

That's the kind of bullshit "evidence" you posted last time we had this discussion. That, along with a bunch of links that didn't work and quotes from people that have absoltuley no idea about how a building should or would collapse. Here is an example:

"I'm the professor of foreign studies at (FILL IN THE BLANK) university and I say the buildings LOOK LIKE they were blown up with explosives..."

THAT'S the kind of crap you posted as "proof".

Then when I called your ass out on it you had nothing to say. You just ignored me.

This is not true. Shall we unearth the last thread?

You, ignored me. I proved you wrong on all accounts, and I'm prepared to do it again, one more time for the cause.

[HookEm]

I assume you have a source you can attibute your "according to some people" comment to?


And that's not a far bargain for 3000 or so lives, according to some people in power today.

Good post.

[Zarathustra]

Pictures of plane wreckage at the pentagon are not hard to find.

I've posted them before.

Of course you said they didn't look like parts of planes. They look like parts from "a missile".

I worked in a shop that fabricated parts for Boeing, Bombardier, Lockheed, etc etc for years but still thats not good enough for you. You know what plane parts look like and I don't I guess.

Find them.

I want to see tail sections, wing sections, seats, wheels, engines, a fuselage, black boxes--or at least an airplane's worth of mangled steel aluminum and airplane shit.

You've got nothing for pictures, the ones you talk about posting are of a couple guys picking up pieces of unburned metal that were small enough to carry.

We're talking about a GIGANTIC airplane here.

Where are the plane parts??

If you know so much about what they look like, you know they can't just disappear into thin air.

So where the fuck are they?

[Zarathustra]

No, it's the same reason I don't waste time trying to blend oil and water. What's the point. I could show you a frame by frame video of the hit, and you'd say it was a Jewish conspiracy.

I truly wish you'd try and find a frame by frame video of the impact of the pentagon. OUt of the 50 or so videos of the actual impact, all were confiscated and/or buried/destroyed. There exists only one, and it alone is laughable when it comes to being worthy of evidence that a plane hit the pentagon.

I've literally laughed at the best shot somebody took at making whatever it is in that video look like a plane.

It's sad. You can't even see the lies.

[HookEm]

They've been posted here ad nauseum. Why would anyone waste their time YET AGAIN to post said pictures, only for you to vanish YET AGAIN when they're posted?

You expect to see SEATS after a fire liek that?

Dee-de-dee....think they MIGHT have burned?????

Tail sections have been posted, carbines have been posted......MULTIPLE times.




Find them.

I want to see tail sections, wing sections, seats, wheels, engines, a fuselage, black boxes--or at least an airplane's worth of mangled steel aluminum and airplane shit.

You've got nothing for pictures, the ones you talk about posting are of a couple guys picking up pieces of unburned metal that were small enough to carry.

We're talking about a GIGANTIC airplane here.

Where are the plane parts??

If you know so much about what they look like, you know they can't just disappear into thin air.

So where the fuck are they?

[Zarathustra]

I assume you have a source you can attibute your "according to some people" comment to?

I don't need a source to say that there is a general disdain for human life in our government today.

I wonder how many lives have been lost, families displaced, suffering caused by this debacle.

Gimmeabeer had a good point when he brought up OPEC, I really do think that is what this is all about.

World War III has begun.

[Vertnut]

My wife's uncle worked for American/Delta airlines as a crash "investigator". Besides making a damn good living, and traveling around the world, he showed us pics over the years...a lot of them. He had died before 9/11, but planes that hit the ground at 500mph, can be picked up by hand. If not for DNA, some folks would never be indentified. Even then, some would just vaporize in the crash.
In most cases, planes are not traveling at that speed when they hit the ground, especially when the pics you see are from landings or take-offs that went bad.

[Zarathustra]

Controlled demolitions fall from the bottom down. The towers fell from the top down. Everyone ever interviewed in that business has laughed out loud at the possibility that this was a controlled demolition.

Lies. You're so totally wrong, have you done any research on this?

Can you show me a video of an interview of a demolition expert laughing out loud?

Where did you see an expert being interviewed and laughing at the notion that this was a controlled demolition. It does not take a trained eye to see that this was not the way that type of building should have fallen down.

[Zarathustra]

They've been posted here ad nauseum. Why would anyone waste their time YET AGAIN to post said pictures, only for you to vanish YET AGAIN when they're posted?

You expect to see SEATS after a fire liek that?

Dee-de-dee....think they MIGHT have burned?????

Tail sections have been posted, carbines have been posted......MULTIPLE times.

WHAT??

They most definitely have not

I challenge you to find them.

I challenge you to prove to me that a plane hit that building.

You stand on absolutely nothing, and still buy the multitude of lies that not only this but religion also throws at you.

You're so gullible, GeneralizeEm. Grow a PAIR!

[Strychnine]

NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.

Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.

There's just no way those molecules could have just disappeared.

If you can find me one instance where the entire airplane evaporated, then your argument will be at the very least cogent.


If I had a bullshit flag I would raise it... but I don't... so I'll just tell you that you're wrong.



"The plane atomized with the impact. It just disappeared into dust."

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/--_RGM4Abv8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/--_RGM4Abv8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


Longer vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/montf4.jpg

[HookEm]

There's a thread on it in the back porch.

and use a little common sense. Why would you drop a building from the TOP down, vice the bottom down?

AND how could a pilot fly a plane EXACTLY into the place where the controlled demolition will begin?



Lies. You're so totally wrong, have you done any research on this?

Can you show me a video of an interview of a demolition expert laughing out loud?

Where did you see an expert being interviewed and laughing at the notion that this was a controlled demolition. It does not take a trained eye to see that this was not the way that type of building should have fallen down.

[Zarathustra]

My wife's uncle worked for American/Delta airlines as a crash "investigator". Besides making a damn good living, and traveling around the world, he showed us pics over the years...a lot of them. He had died before 9/11, but planes that hit the ground at 500mph, can be picked up by hand. If not for DNA, some folks would never be indentified. Even then, some would just vaporize in the crash.
In most cases, planes are not traveling at that speed when they hit the ground, especially when the pics you see are from landings or take-offs that went bad.

So you're saying that it's possible that all of the planes indestructible parts, heavy metals, glass, and other thing like black boxes and things of that nature completely evaporated on impact?

Where are the engines? Where is the landing gear? Where is the tail section which would most likely have stayed outside the building?

Since you know about airplanes and what not.

Explain to me how the guy who was flying the plane executed the purported maneuver to obtain his ultimate trajectory and flight path?

Normally a commercial airliner would have fallen apart or fallen into an out of control spin after taking that kind of approach. Where is the logic?

[Zarathustra]

If I had a bullshit flag I would raise it... but I don't... so I'll just tell you that you're wrong.



"The plane atomized with the impact. It just disappeared into dust."



That is no commercial airliner, bucko.

That thing pales in size comparison to a commercial jet.

FAIL.

[Vertnut]

So you're saying that it's possible that all of the planes indestructible parts, heavy metals, glass, and other thing like black boxes and things of that nature completely evaporated on impact?

Where are the engines? Where is the landing gear? Where is the tail section which would most likely have stayed outside the building?

Since you know about airplanes and what not.

Explain to me how the guy who was flying the plane executed the purported maneuver to obtain his ultimate trajectory and flight path?

Normally a commercial airliner would have fallen apart or fallen into an out of control spin after taking that kind of approach. Where is the logic?
I don't know anything about planes...just pictures I've seen of catastrophic plane crashes. Yes, engines can and do turn into small pieces.

[Strychnine]

So you're saying that it's possible that all of the planes indestructible parts, heavy metals, glass, and other thing like black boxes and things of that nature completely evaporated on impact?

Where are the engines? Where is the landing gear? Where is the tail section which would most likely have stayed outside the building?


See my post above.


Since you know about airplanes and what not.

Kettle, is that you?

So I guess you're a pilot? Or at the very least an aerospace engineer, designer, builder... something flight related, right?


Normally a commercial airliner would have fallen apart or fallen into an out of control spin after taking that kind of approach. Where is the logic?


Wanna see a video of a Boeing doing a barrel roll while we're at it?


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3IV9PZW1N9U&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3IV9PZW1N9U&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[HookEm]

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/pentagon/pentagon-wheel-01.jpg
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/pentagon/pentagon-wheel-02.jpg

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesD/hullpart.jpg
http://www.rense.com/general31/fitcloser.jpghttp://www.rense.com/general31/fitfar.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/Damage9.jpg

So you're saying that it's possible that all of the planes indestructible parts, heavy metals, glass, and other thing like black boxes and things of that nature completely evaporated on impact?

Where are the engines? Where is the landing gear? Where is the tail section which would most likely have stayed outside the building?

Since you know about airplanes and what not.

Explain to me how the guy who was flying the plane executed the purported maneuver to obtain his ultimate trajectory and flight path?

Normally a commercial airliner would have fallen apart or fallen into an out of control spin after taking that kind of approach. Where is the logic?

[Strychnine]

That is no commercial airliner, bucko.

That thing pales in size comparison to a commercial jet.

FAIL.


Riiiiiiiight.

A small quanitity of aluminum has totally different properties than a large quantity.


You want to know where the "molecules" went. Well, are we talking big or small molecules here? Size matters apparently.





Sir, I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Zarathustra]

There's a thread on it in the back porch.

and use a little common sense. Why would you drop a building from the TOP down, vice the bottom down?

AND how could a pilot fly a plane EXACTLY into the place where the controlled demolition will begin?

Somebody could have taken that building down like playing a video game, deciding when and where to detonate which charges, strategically and methodically coercing simple small minds like yours into believing that this happened by one airplane hitting it in the top half.

I'll counter you logic by asking why the rest of the buildings, the part under the impact sites,also fell down. I'm talking about the bottom 1/2-3/4 of both buildings. The part under where the planes hit.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that those planes couldn't have provided enough destruction to bring those buildings down the way they came.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that those buildings fell into themselves, as a result of the crushing weight of the entire building falling on the inner support structure, while the outside stayed largely intact until the whole things actually started to come down--way too fast, I might note here, to have been cased only by the planes, again.

[HookEm]

Delusions

<DL>Delusions are false beliefs or misinterpretations of events & their significance. For instance, a person may get accidentally bumped in the subway & may conclude that this is a Government plot to harass him. He may be awakened by noise from his neighbors apartment & may decide this is a deliberate attempt to interrupt his sleep. Everyone tends to personalize & misinterpret events, especially during times of stress or fatigue. What is characteristic of the schizophrenic however, especially during an acute period, is that the conviction is fixed & alternate explanations for the events experienced are not even considered. Usually attempts at reasoning or discussion about possible other meanings of the bumping or the noise in the night can only lead to the further conviction that the reasoner must be in on the plot, too. Arguing with a delusion only leads to further mistrust or anger. The beliefs are tenaciously held, against all reason, & they are characteristically not shared beliefs. They are held only by the person himself & by no one else.</DL>
Somebody could have taken that building down like playing a video game, deciding when and where to detonate which charges, strategically and methodically coercing simple small minds like yours into believing that this happened by one airplane hitting it in the top half.

I'll counter you logic by asking why the rest of the buildings, the part under the impact sites,also fell down. I'm talking about the bottom 1/2-3/4 of both buildings. The part under where the planes hit.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that those planes couldn't have provided enough destruction to bring those buildings down the way they came.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that those buildings fell into themselves, as a result of the crushing weight of the entire building falling on the inner support structure, while the outside stayed largely intact until the whole things actually started to come down--way too fast, I might note here, to have been cased only by the planes, again.

[Zarathustra]

Where is the rest of the plane?
Where are those first two pictures from?
Why is that piece of aluminum completely unburned?

If that unburned piece of aluminum still exists, surely the other tons worth of aluminum that made up the outer shell should be also scattered all over the lawn. Not only small sections, but huge, MASSIVE pieces of fuselage should be there.

[Zarathustra]

Delusions

<DL>Delusions are false beliefs or misinterpretations of events & their significance. For instance, a person may get accidentally bumped in the subway & may conclude that this is a Government plot to harass him. He may be awakened by noise from his neighbors apartment & may decide this is a deliberate attempt to interrupt his sleep. Everyone tends to personalize & misinterpret events, especially during times of stress or fatigue. What is characteristic of the schizophrenic however, especially during an acute period, is that the conviction is fixed & alternate explanations for the events experienced are not even considered. Usually attempts at reasoning or discussion about possible other meanings of the bumping or the noise in the night can only lead to the further conviction that the reasoner must be in on the plot, too. Arguing with a delusion only leads to further mistrust or anger. The beliefs are tenaciously held, against all reason, & they are characteristically not shared beliefs. They are held only by the person himself & by no one else.</DL>


The definition of your life.

The first step to dealing with a problem, is recognizing that you have it.

You took an important step today.

[HookEm]

See? Hopeless.

Where is the rest of the plane?
Where are those first two pictures from?
Why is that piece of aluminum completely unburned?

If that unburned piece of aluminum still exists, surely the other tons worth of aluminum that made up the outer shell should be also scattered all over the lawn. Not only small sections, but huge, MASSIVE pieces of fuselage should be there.

[Zarathustra]

What? Can't hang with my arguments?

That's what I thought, run along.

[HookEm]

You asked for pcitures, and as I predicted, you just covered your eyes and stuck your fingers in your ears.


What? Can't hang with my arguments?

That's what I thought, run along.

[AL P]

Find them.

I want to see tail sections, wing sections, seats, wheels, engines, a fuselage, black boxes--or at least an airplane's worth of mangled steel aluminum and airplane shit.

You've got nothing for pictures, the ones you talk about posting are of a couple guys picking up pieces of unburned metal that were small enough to carry.

We're talking about a GIGANTIC airplane here.

Where are the plane parts??

If you know so much about what they look like, you know they can't just disappear into thin air.

So where the fuck are they?

I posted one that had a piece of metal from a wing. You said it wasn't good enough of course. If you want to see it, go find it and do the work for yourself, I'm not posting it again, I've got better things to do.

[AL P]

This is not true. Shall we unearth the last thread?

You, ignored me. I proved you wrong on all accounts, and I'm prepared to do it again, one more time for the cause.

Pull it up. You proved me wrong that one of your sources was saying a laser in space was used to destroy the towers? LOL, ok.

[AL P]

My wife's uncle worked for American/Delta airlines as a crash "investigator". Besides making a damn good living, and traveling around the world, he showed us pics over the years...a lot of them. He had died before 9/11, but planes that hit the ground at 500mph, can be picked up by hand. If not for DNA, some folks would never be indentified. Even then, some would just vaporize in the crash.
In most cases, planes are not traveling at that speed when they hit the ground, especially when the pics you see are from landings or take-offs that went bad.

This is true. People associate size with mass and weight. Planes don't have much of either. They will come apart like balsa wood if they hit something.

The aluminum skin on the wings is only thousandths of an inch thick. The floor beams have pads all along the span where weight has been taken out of them.

Back in my days of aircraft machining one of the things we would do is take a lot of the parts and chemically mill them. That sounds like an interesting mix of words but it was a simple process. You'd take the parts (floor beams, wing skins) and dip them in a thick plastic sheeting. Then you would use a pattern to cut out the shape of any areas where you could stand to lose weight while keeping the structural properties of the part functional. On a wing skin you would leave the mounting pads and cut out large sections of the inside of the skin. You would have these pads along the inside that were used to mount the skin. The pads would have the plastic masking material still on them. Once all the patterns were cut out on the part it would go into a huge vat of acid. The acid would eat away any part of the aluminum not covered by the masking material. A lot of the skins we did were left with about .050" of thickness or so.

Weight reduction is one of the reasons the parts were so expensive, it was fairly labor intensive. One of the Boeing floor beams was worth something like $18K when finished.

[Strychnine]

That is no commercial airliner, bucko.

That thing pales in size comparison to a commercial jet.

FAIL.


You should go look up the word fail again.


Your words:
NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.


Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.


If you can find me one instance where the entire airplane evaporated...

You never mentioned commercial airliner or any specifics :confused:

You stated, with much surety, that an airplane has "NEVER" disentegrated on impact and then challenged the board to prove you wrong regardless of the circumstance.

I showed, with video and still photo proof, that you are wrong.


Is it opposite day or something? Did you mean to type "SUCCEED" :confused:




As for your size argument, lets look at kinetic energy.

Ek = 1/2m*v^2


F4 Phantom in the video
Mass: 30,328 lbs (empty) - 13,756 kg
Velocity: 500 mph - 223.5 m/s

Ek = 343,571,575.5 Joules


Boeing 767
Mass: 127,520 lbs (empty) - 57,840 kg
Velocity: V

V = SQRT((2*Ek)/m)) = 108 m/s = 241 mph.


At just around half of of it's average cruising speed (528mph) the 757 would have just as much kinetic energy as the F4... which as you saw, completey disentegrated on impact.

The 757 that hit the Pentagon was traveling at 345mph (154.2 m/s) according to the flight data recorder.

That would give it 687649348.8 Joules at impact; or 200% of the kinetic energy the F4 had at impact... which again, was completely destroyed.




Before you ask, the flight data recorders are made with hardened steel and/or titanium casings with shock and thermal insulating blocks inside... not aluminum.

[Zarathustra]

Common knowledge.

Just as I assumed it was so that I was talking about commercial airliners. How is your little video in any way relevant, sir?

[Slowhand]

What? Can't hang with my arguments?

That's what I thought, run along.

Stroked71 is calling you out left and right, and you're just ignoring him. You're the one that can't hang, and you're the one who should be running along.

It's an argument that you're not going to win; the man is a Mechanical Engineer for Christ's sake. It's what he does for a living!

[Zarathustra]

There is no argument here, son.

He's building straw men, and then attacking them.

Good job though, just get off the school bus?

[Vertnut]

There is no argument here, son.

He's building straw men, and then attacking them.

Good job though, just get off the school bus?
Quite possibly the biggest calling out you've gotten, and your weakest response...

[HookEm]

So basically, you lied again?

Plagarism, restraunt nonsense, and now this......

Za-Rug! (as in, lies like a rug...)

I don't need a source to say that there is a general disdain for human life in our government today.

I wonder how many lives have been lost, families displaced, suffering caused by this debacle.

Gimmeabeer had a good point when he brought up OPEC, I really do think that is what this is all about.

World War III has begun.

[Mr Majestyk]

Quite possibly the biggest calling out you've gotten, and your weakest response...

What's funny is seeing Zurethra get flustered and upset enough to get his panties in a wad and whine to a Mod to make it stop, all to no avail LOL

[Zarathustra]

Hilarious.

You have no respect for this website.

[Mr Majestyk]

Try "I have no respect for worthless 'tards like yourself"

You are hilarious, to all involved. Keep up the good work Zurethra, or FudgePecker, or whatever you get named, and keep us all entertained

[5.0_CJ]

NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.

Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.


The speed of impact of AA Flight 11 was 470 mph = 689 ft/s. The speed of impact of UA Flight 175 was 590

The speed of impact of this F4 phantom is 500mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR0f8n10DR4

It is amazing how many sociology majors find problems with the kinetic energy involved in the WTC collisions, yet all the engeering and mathematical majors find no inconsistencies. You are so uneducated about physics, energy, and all higher learning involved in such a situation, its absolutely disgusting that a person so misinformed like yourself can be so confident. A person with as high of an intelligence as you claim to have would easily be able to look back at their ridiculous statements and realize how uneducated they are.

You are literally the stupidest person, on a consistent basis, that I've witnessed in the 15 years I've been on the internet.

When you meet me in person, which you will, I certainly hope you have mentally prepared yourself to consistently be forced to finish each and every topic we start, and to be embarrassed. You have very poor arguments Zara. Your job is to address that video, and explain how it is not relevant to this situation, do not try to change the subject.

[Zarathustra]

That is not a jumbo-jet commercial airliner, sir. Far from it, in fact.

Your straw man would actually make sense if and only if the object that the plane hit was actually as solid as the one in your little straw man video.

Whatever hit the pentagon went inside, and through more walls on the other side of the outer structural layers. There was a 16' wide hole left in the outer facade, and many more holes inside where the object continued on its path through reinforced concrete, among other things.

The plane in your straw man video hit a wall that most certainly did not move.

Logic continues to escape you.

MY arguments are weak and you're telling me a commercial plane that was going under the speed of sound disintegrated on impact? There are no surveillance videos available, which would, beyond a shadow of a doubt, prove that a plane hit the pentagon. This is true even in light of the fact that there was ~15 surveillance cameras, from several businesses, that were pointed at the aircraft's trajectory, or flight path. The FBI and the powers that be had all of them confiscated. Why?

I'd like you to show me one instance, a single incident whereby a commercial airliner completely vaporizes on impact.

Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem.

Are you capable of arguing logically, like an adult should be able?

[5.0_CJ]

My arguments are weak and you're telling me a plane that was going under the speed of sound disintegrated on impact? There are no surveillance videos available, which would, beyond a shadow of a doubt, prove that a plane hit the pentagon. This is true even in light of the fact that there was ~15 surveillance cameras, from several businesses, that were pointed at the aircraft's trajectory, or flight path. The FBI and the powers that be had all of them confiscated. Why?

I'd like you to show me one instance, a single incident whereby a commercial airliner completely vaporizes on impact.

Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem.

Are you capable of arguing logically, like an adult should be able?

you absolutely, completely, and totally ignored the video I just posted. where an F4 traveling at the same speed, and also somewhat less a speed, was completely atomized. Why did you completely ignore that?

[Zarathustra]

you absolutely, completely, and totally ignored the video I just posted. where an F4 traveling at the same speed, and also somewhat less a speed, was completely atomized. Why did you completely ignore that?


Reread prior post, i edited it a little.

Because it is irrelevant

It is a straw man

We are talking about commercial airliners.

JUMBO jets.

Straw man.

[Zarathustra]

Good job not responding to ANY of the other arguments I made though.

You're really bad at this.

[5.0_CJ]

Good job not responding to ANY of the other arguments I made though.

You're really bad at this.

This is you not being respectful, and childish. Take note of this. I'm not even going to give this tantrum the time of day, lets keep you on topic.





Continuing on without your diversion of the topic.

Here is your vaporized aircraft parts from the WTC collision.

We have the following photos-more hard evidence-of 767 wreckage at the World Trade Center. The windows on the piece of fuselage are the shape of 767 windows:

http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/fuselage.jpghttp://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/landinggear.jpg
The no-planers have claimed the above piece of fuselage is planted evidence because it is not burned. However, the crumpled right end does look burnt. Plus in the second hit debris can be seen exiting the towers on the leading edge of the fireball, which would indicate that those pieces might not have endured enough time in the flames to become blackened. We haven't heard from someone who actually has forensic experience whether there is any indication of fraud here. And that is also true for the rest of the planted evidence claims.The Naudet video shows parts of a jet engine on the street. Visible in the video but not in these freeze frames are wisps of smoke coming off of the debris, still hot from the impact:
http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/engine.jpghttp://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/engine.jpg

Here is an airplane wheel embedded in a section of exterior wall columns from the WTC:
http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/panel+wheel.jpg
Here are some photos of parts recovered from the wreckage of the WTC:

http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=45

The wreckage must have de-vaporized itself!

[Fox466]

*Sigh*


Arguing with that guy is like arguing with a damned fence post... :rolleyes:

[HookEm]

And this tool was just crying about discrespect. For someone so Christphobic, he sure spends a lot of time nailing himself to the cross....



*Sigh*


Arguing with that guy is like arguing with a damned fence post... :rolleyes:

[Zarathustra]

This is you not being respectful, and childish. Take note of this. I'm not even going to give this tantrum the time of day, lets keep you on topic.





Continuing on without your diversion of the topic.

Here is your vaporized aircraft parts from the WTC collision.

We have the following photos-more hard evidence-of 767 wreckage at the World Trade Center. The windows on the piece of fuselage are the shape of 767 windows:

http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/fuselage.jpghttp://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/landinggear.jpg
The no-planers have claimed the above piece of fuselage is planted evidence because it is not burned. However, the crumpled right end does look burnt. Plus in the second hit debris can be seen exiting the towers on the leading edge of the fireball, which would indicate that those pieces might not have endured enough time in the flames to become blackened. We haven't heard from someone who actually has forensic experience whether there is any indication of fraud here. And that is also true for the rest of the planted evidence claims.The Naudet video shows parts of a jet engine on the street. Visible in the video but not in these freeze frames are wisps of smoke coming off of the debris, still hot from the impact:
The wreckage must have de-vaporized itself!

Ok, so now you switch over to the WTC, and I'm the one deviating off topic?

You're insane, sir.

You're only further proving my point.

Where is the tail section from the plane that hit the pentagon?

[5.0_CJ]

And on to the pentagon:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

The photos I have posted prove the following statement by yourself:


Yes. Absolutely.

There should have been large sections of that plane laying around, you and I both know that.

NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.

Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.

to be factually incorrect. I have provided photographs which are total evidence that your previous statement is entirely incorrect. There are clearly very large pieces of this plane scattered all over the place.

I sincerely hope that myself, and the rest of the people in this forum can witness you exercise some modesty, and humanity in apologizing for that mistake, whether it was your misspeaking, a typo, or any other excuse and we can continue to address the rest of your statements.

I've noticed your have just made an attempt to again divert this argument by requesting only pictures of the tail of the plane. This request by yourself is reinforcing your non-acknowledgment of the previous statement being incorrect, now pieces of the plane are not sufficient, now you must have the tail section. Please, review what I have posted and give us an apology for your incorrect statement quoted above to show us you are capable of a respectful argument.

[HookEm]

He's a typical infowars.com idiot. You could show him a frame by frame video, and all he would say was "Damn dirty JEws did it!."

He's been shown an incredible body of proof, but his only response is to stick his fingers in his ears and head in the sand.

Hopeless.

The photos I have posted prove the following statement by yourself:


to be factually incorrect. I have provided photographs which are total evidence that your previous statement is entirely incorrect. There are clearly very large pieces of this plane scattered all over the place.

I sincerely hope that myself, and the rest of the people in this forum can witness you exercise some modesty, and humanity in apologizing for that mistake, whether it was your misspeaking, a typo, or any other excuse and we can continue to address the rest of your statements.

[Zarathustra]

You guys can just keep letting those weak lies convince you...

If we know the truth we'll be in a much better position to defend ourselves when tyrants knock on our doors.

[Zarathustra]

And on to the pentagon:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

The photos I have posted prove the following statement by yourself:


to be factually incorrect. I have provided photographs which are total evidence that your previous statement is entirely incorrect. There are clearly very large pieces of this plane scattered all over the place.

I sincerely hope that myself, and the rest of the people in this forum can witness you exercise some modesty, and humanity in apologizing for that mistake, whether it was your misspeaking, a typo, or any other excuse and we can continue to address the rest of your statements.

I've noticed your have just made an attempt to again divert this argument by requesting only pictures of the tail of the plane. This request by yourself is reinforcing your non-acknowledgment of the previous statement being incorrect, now pieces of the plane are not sufficient, now you must have the tail section. Please, review what I have posted and give us an apology for your incorrect statement quoted above to show us you are capable of a respectful argument.

You need to learn how to read and comprehend what I'm posting, sir.

You are one big misunderstanding, a huge contradiction. This is absolutely pointless, like arguing with a kid in high school.

Your mensa buddies would be ashamed of you...

[Strychnine]

You guys can just keep letting those weak lies convince you...

If we know the truth we'll be in a much better position to defend ourselves when tyrants knock on our doors.

Your "proof" is no better. You're lying to us and we're lying to you. No winners.


And in that situation, none of this "proof" will matter. My truth will read 5.56mm.

[Zarathustra]

Nice.

[blownragtop]

NEVER in the HISTORY of aviation, has the entire airplane disintegrated on impact.

Please find me an instance where this has happened, regardless of the circumstance.

There's just no way those molecules could have just disappeared….

I'd like you to show me one instance, a single incident whereby a commercial airliner completely vaporizes on impact.


Ordinarily I’d never respond to you. Paranoia clouds what little reasoning you have – making you nothing more than an easily dismissible crackpot with a predilection for conspiracy theories. You’re just another tin foil wearing loon constantly looking over your shoulder for the black helicopters that somehow manage to stay just out of sight. You’re a waste of my time….



But shit... this is just too damn easy.

United Flight 93


http://www.unitedflight93.com/image/crater-flight93.jpg

Let’s see if I can anticipate your response – Flight 93 is a hoax too.

[Slowhand]

Ok, so now you switch over to the WTC, and I'm the one deviating off topic?

You're insane, sir.

You're only further proving my point.

Where is the tail section from the plane that hit the pentagon?

And you're proving our points by not addressing them and just claiming that we're all off topic.

[Zarathustra]

Ordinarily I'd never respond to YOU, either but shit, this is too damn easy.

So, you're admitting the 'plane' that crashed into that hole there just vaporized on impact, too, correct? Admittedly, you say that the irony that 2 planes, the first two in history, mind you, completely disappeared on impact raises no questions in your mind? Surely they would have seeked to reconstruct the pieces of the plane in order to conduct a necessary and routine thorough investigation.

The fact that the nearly indestructible twin towers, on the same day, within minutes of eachother, collapsed at freefall speed raises no further questions to you? Nothing to wonder about when shown logically invalid facts and documented evidence of what happened that day? Do you believe everything they tell you? Do you just refuse to seek the truth? Blind conformism? Groupthink?

Do you not see the pattern here?

Rational, sensible people know when they're being lied to. You make me laugh.

[HookEm]

And your words are stupid.


Ordinarily I'd never respond to YOU, either but shit, this is too damn easy.

So, you're admitting the 'plane' that crashed into that hole there just vaporized on impact, too, correct? Admittedly, you say that the irony that 2 planes, the first two in history, mind you, completely disappeared on impact raises no questions in your mind? Surely they would have seeked to reconstruct the pieces of the plane in order to conduct a necessary and routine thorough investigation.

The fact that the nearly indestructible twin towers, on the same day, within minutes of eachother, collapsed at freefall speed raises no further questions to you? Nothing to wonder about when shown logically invalid facts and documented evidence of what happened that day? Do you believe everything they tell you? Do you just refuse to seek the truth? Blind conformism? Groupthink?

Do you not see the pattern here?

Rational, sensible people know when they're being lied to. You make me laugh.

[Zarathustra]

good rebuttal.

[futant]

Ten years on the internet.........

first person I've ever 'ignored' ..........


PRICELESS.

[HookEm]

good rebuttal.


For you, yes. You ignore facts and embrace falalcies....what's the point?

[Big Thumper]

the patriot act is a joke.,just like everythingelse thats happened since 2000

and as far as 911 goes,i think most of us know what really happpened.

everything that happens big is designed to happen the way for one reason or another.the reason that you get to hear isn't always the correct one.
yes sometimes we as a nation are straight up lied to and convinced to beleive something as being true when false.

nothing new,but definetly getting worse as time goes by.

I have to agree, it was those black Amish guys/gals.

[Zarathustra]

For you, yes. You ignore facts and embrace falalcies....what's the point?

You wouldn't know that word means if it wasn't for me pointing out the numerous FALLACIES in your 'arguments'. Hell, you still can't even spell it. You're a joke, sir.

[HookEm]

You wouldn't know that word means if it wasn't for me pointing out the numerous FALLACIES in your 'arguments'. Hell, you still can't even spell it. You're a joke, sir.


It's pretty obvious the l and a were transposed.

However, what on Earth is "You wouldn't know that word means if it wasn't" supposed to mean?



Ingles, por favor?


BTW:
"I have been and will continue to make considerable attempts at trying to get my point across without being terse and disrespectful."
http://backdoorlife.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/epic-fail.jpg

[Sean88gt]

drivel
I'm just curious, is there anything about this country, it's magnificent history or anything tied to it that you are proud of?

[Mr Majestyk]

I'm just curious, is there anything about this country, it's magnificent history or anything tied to it that you are proud of?

Zurethra would quite possibly be despised in Iran even more so than in the U.S.

[HookEm]

Zurethra would quite possibly be despised in Iran even more so than in the U.S.



"Since the Iranian Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution) of 1979, LGBT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT) and human rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights) groups have cited a government intolerance relating to the Iranian gay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay) community; This intolerance is partially attributed to institutionalized assertions that homosexuality does not exist in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran),<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-0>[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran#cite_note-0)</SUP> though that characterization is disputed by the government.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-1>[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran#cite_note-1)</SUP> Officially, homosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality) remains a crime under the country's theocratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy) Islamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism) government. All types of sexual activity outside a heterosexual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosexual) marriage remain forbidden, although it is debated to what extent these laws are enforced."