Anyone have a tankless hot water heater?

[bobs94formula]

I searched but couldn't find anything here in the forum. Just wondering if anyone has one and how they like it and if it made any difference on the elec bill.

I ask because I walked into the garage and noticed a hissing sound and walked over to the hot water heater and I guess the pressure relief valve is open almost all the time now. I checked quite a few times this week and it's doing it everytime I check. Plus today while running the dishwasher I went out back and noticed a pipe coimg out of the wall behind the garage leaking water at a steady rate.

I figure if I have to replace it I might as well upgrade to a tankless. I figure between not running out of hot water and some savings on the elec bill, one company claims it takes about $200-250 to run their system and between $450-500 to run a regular tank heater, It should be a decent buy.

I was looking at this unit from Home Depot http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100094582&N=10000003+90401+527051

Any thoughts??? Sorry I wrote a book, I just want to make an informed decision.

[STANGGT40]

if you have gas, i'd get it...i'm not a fan of the electric ones. either way (gas or electric) you're going to have to run a larger supply to the tankless unit. i believe that the electric unit to replace a standard 50 or gallon water heater is going to be in the 80-100 amp range. ie; you're going to need a new two-pole breaker (whatever size it requires), a new disconnect at the unit (100/2) and new wire to the unit...likely #4 or possibly #3.

brad

[kangol]

There is a savings in the long-run, however those numbers seem exuberant.

BTW - someone is sure to make fun of "hot water heater" vs "water heater" - not that it makes one bit of fucking difference to me.

[STANGGT40]

damn, i just noticed that the one that you posted is 120 amps at 240! make that #1 wire and a 125amp 2-pole breaker, and i think that's going to be the largest breaker that you'll be able to fit in your panel.

[Cody B]

We put in a tankless one in last year. I think it was around 1300 installed. We got the heavy duty one though. I just ran to the garage and its a Rheem. Cant say for sure if it made a change in the electric bill because we added a swimming pool at the same time and my E-Bill jumped from 190/month to around 350.

[Yellowstang]

If the water is already hot, why heat it again? :D

[bobs94formula]

damn, i just noticed that the one that you posted is 120 amps at 240! make that #1 wire and a 125amp 2-pole breaker, and i think that's going to be the largest breaker that you'll be able to fit in your panel.


From reading on home depots website everyone was using 3 40 amp breakers, not one 125 amp breaker, and the panel had to have 200 amps coming in.

I found another place in Florida that makes them and they have a lifetime warranty on theirs. Each company has them anywhere from 50 amps to 125 amps but none of them say "This size unit for this many bathrooms, etc."

although I am sure with 2 bathrooms and a family of 4 I'd need one of the 100-120 amp units.

[8mpg]

Well...after lots of research and advice of people here...it wasnt worth it. Tankless are best done when you are building...retrofitting gets expensive. We got quoted for a gas one (quality one...nothing sold at HD/blowes) and they wanted $2500-3000 out the door. The costs included running a bigger gas supply line to the heater, bigger vent and installing the unit. Electric ones are supposed to be worthless..they just dont heat the water fast enough. Gas is the only way to go with a tankless.

[Mark04]

We had a tannkless gas water heater installed when we were building. As others have said, that is the only time where it is cost effective. Also the electric ones are not worth it then. Unless it is a small unit for an outside structure (like a detached garage).

[STANGGT40]

From reading on home depots website everyone was using 3 40 amp breakers, not one 125 amp breaker, and the panel had to have 200 amps coming in.

I found another place in Florida that makes them and they have a lifetime warranty on theirs. Each company has them anywhere from 50 amps to 125 amps but none of them say "This size unit for this many bathrooms, etc."

although I am sure with 2 bathrooms and a family of 4 I'd need one of the 100-120 amp units.

that makes more sense...there must be three different elements. the problem with the electrical units is that they just don't provide enough heat to match the flow that you're probably used to. if you use it to fill up a bathtub and the faucet has any reasonable amount of flow, you're going to have to restrict it or deal with just "warm" water. the gas units, on the other hand, work absolutely great from what i've seen.

[Doug Hatton]

$12 P&T Relief Valve > $2500 new water heater!

[Vertnut]

Be very careful. I've put some in new homes for customers that insisted on them, and it was a mistake on all accounts. A "whole house" electric heater will need an 80 amp dedicated circuit. Your water pressure coming into the house is also a factor...too much flow=less than hot water. Renai makes about the best, and my plumber doesn't even like it. They will heat incoming water up to 45 degree's over it's temperature. Right now, water in Texas is about 65 degree's out of the tap. That means 110 degrees MAX. I just built my own personal home, and put in 2 Ruud 67 gallon water heaters, and I could have used anything.

[blkscorpion80]

If the water is already hot, why heat it again? :D
Are you serious!!!
B/c it makes the water taste like strawberies. :p

[71chevellejohn]

My Dad installed one 4-5 years ago and has loved it since day one.

The only thing that bugged him was when the Gov't started giving the tax breaks the year after he installed his and it wasn't eligible for it.

[bobs94formula]

My Dad installed one 4-5 years ago and has loved it since day one.

The only thing that bugged him was when the Gov't started giving the tax breaks the year after he installed his and it wasn't eligible for it.


What kind was it and how big was it, ie how many amps does it need?

[Vertnut]

My Dad installed one 4-5 years ago and has loved it since day one.

The only thing that bugged him was when the Gov't started giving the tax breaks the year after he installed his and it wasn't eligible for it.
The fewer people there are in the house, the better they work, too.

[Sgt Beavis]

I had a guy from Benjamin Franklin Plumbing out here over the weekend. While he was here I got a quote for a Maritz (is that the right name) tankless. He quoted me $3200.

Uh, Fuck no.

Lately, on the radio, they've been talking about an add on system that bolts on top of your regular tank water heater. It is supposedly a heat pump that assists your water heater. I have no other information on it. I've only heard it advertised on David Yates home radio show on KLIF. Has anyone heard of it?

[Yellowstang]

Are you serious!!!
B/c it makes the water taste like strawberies. :p

Mmm, hot strawberry water!

[Vertnut]

I had a guy from Benjamin Franklin Plumbing out here over the weekend. While he was here I got a quote for a Maritz (is that the right name) tankless. He quoted me $3200.

Uh, Fuck no.

Lately, on the radio, they've been talking about an add on system that bolts on top of your regular tank water heater. It is supposedly a heat pump that assists your water heater. I have no other information on it. I've only heard it advertised on David Yates home radio show on KLIF. Has anyone heard of it?
So, about $500 (tops) for a conventional water heater replacement, versus $3200 for a tankless... Does anyone realize how long it would take to make up the $2700 difference in water/energy consumption? A VERY long time. About the time you catch up, it will be time to replace it again... :cool:

[miketyler]

We just bought a newer home that has an 80 gal electric water heater. It has a separate recirculation pump that helps produce instant hot water even from the farthest faucet on the second floor.

This setup is overkill for two people, was thinking about putting it on a timer so it shuts off in the morning and comes back on in the evening before we arrive home in the afternoon. Could have an override for weekends, or when overnight guests are visiting. What do you think? If you could reduce your water heater cycles by 40-50%, would you realize that on your electric bill?

Maybe a better question is how much of your bill do you think the electric water heater is responsible for?

Bob - hope you dont mind the minor hijack here :)

[Vertnut]

We just bought a newer home that has an 80 gal electric water heater. It has a separate recirculation pump that helps produce instant hot water even from the farthest faucet on the second floor.

This setup is overkill for two people, was thinking about putting it on a timer so it shuts off in the morning and comes back on in the evening before we arrive home in the afternoon. Could have an override for weekends, or when overnight guests are visiting. What do you think? If you could reduce your water heater cycles by 40-50%, would you realize that on your electric bill?

Maybe a better question is how much of your bill do you think the electric water heater is responsible for?

Bob - hope you dont mind the minor hijack here :)
Mike- Great questions. My new heaters show $400 for typical year of energy use, or less than $35 a month. With the continuous circulating of yours, it will be a tad more. You may save a few dollars a month with it on a timer. Be sure it has time in the morning to heat up before showers, etc. There's an ongoing debate as to whether or not it's better keep the water at a constant temperature, or use the extra energy required to bring it up to temperature. Either way, it sounds like you got a great unit.

[bobs94formula]

Bob - hope you dont mind the minor hijack here :)

Of course not! Anytime I can learn a little more I am all for it!

I agree that if the tankless cost $3,200 like someone got a quote for it is just rediculous. I was looking at doing the install myself and the units I looked at from HOme Depot and the SETS Tankless system were in the $599-799 range. That is why I asked my question. I am always just on the look out for anyway to lower my energy bills, but this doesn't look like it will do the trick.

[spederman]

How long do y'all wait for hot water? We have a one story house and the water heater tank is in the garage and the kitchen and master bath (the only 2 we use) are the farthest away and it takes what seems like 3 min or so to finally get hot water. Seems like such a waste of water to just sit there and let water run down the drain. Ive just got used to never having hot water and using cold for everything besides showers.

[doopie]

We had a plumber replace our electric tank in our old house

600 for the tank and 250 for the labor. I could have saved the labor and did it myself.

My dad just replaced his electric tank for an electric tankless and he paid 800 for the unit and 300 for the labor, not sure on brand or model. He did pay an electrician to come upgrade the wire and breakers to meet the load. He saw a 25 dollar savings per month on his electric bill so for him the extra cost was worth it since he does not care about the flow and it is just my mom and dad and guests at times.


In my new home I installed two propane Rinnai exterior units and can not be any happier with it. My dad is also amazed at the difference between the propane and electric. He gets hot water but it is not that great of a flow rate as they have a restrictor built in to maintain temperature. Mine at full throttle 65psi I have it at 140 degrees for hours on end unless we run the propane tank dry.

I personally would not use an electric tankless. They require a larger load on startup and restrict flow although the water will not get hotter than the 40-55 degrees above ambient temperature. I like the water pounding on me when I shower.

There are other options.....solar paneled tank with a combined electric tankless to make up the temperature difference but now you are talking a lot more money and the only benefit is being greener. Green does not mean much unless it saves me money. :)

[doopie]

One note on saving.....Set the hot water heater temperature to the temperature you like it and then when you need hot water just turn it all the way hot this way the valve does not mix cold water in and waste energy.

Plus like spederman stated if you are not going to use a lot don't use any, just use cold water.
Water in the tank should stay hot if you do not use it if it is wrapped well. That will reduce the cycling of the heating coil.

[71chevellejohn]

What kind was it and how big was it, ie how many amps does it need?


His a Bosch and runs on natural gas - the electrical requirement is minimal if any at all. I was thinking the only electrical it had was the ignitor(sp?). It only lights/heats when the water is flowing.

This is in a 4 bedroom/2 Bath/single story house and my parents are the only two living there.

[Vertnut]

His a Bosch and runs on natural gas - the electrical requirement is minimal if any at all. I was thinking the only electrical it had was the ignitor(sp?). It only lights/heats when the water is flowing.

This is in a 4 bedroom/2 Bath/single story house and my parents are the only two living there.
It should run an a 30 amp circuit.

[sbellxd00gt]

i work for the gas company and i see mostly renai(sp)..everybody ive talked to about them said they like them..i plan on putting one in my house after my regular water heater blows...and to make it easy for everyone just call it a boiler ;)...if your spending over 2 grand for the tankless and install your getting screwed.jmo

[mardyn]

I've got an electric one here at my home. Things are VERY power hungry when they come on... mine is on two 40 amp circuits I think.

It works OK, I think the gas models are likely more efficient and work a little better than electric units.

If I had it to do over, I 'd probably just go with a conventional water heater.


mardyn

[mgee9562]

Well...after lots of research and advice of people here...it wasnt worth it. Tankless are best done when you are building...retrofitting gets expensive. We got quoted for a gas one (quality one...nothing sold at HD/blowes) and they wanted $2500-3000 out the door. The costs included running a bigger gas supply line to the heater, bigger vent and installing the unit. Electric ones are supposed to be worthless..they just dont heat the water fast enough. Gas is the only way to go with a tankless.


Agreed, I was always told if you were building it was the way to go but to convert is a B!

[Vertnut]

I've got an electric one here at my home. Things are VERY power hungry when they come on... mine is on two 40 amp circuits I think.

It works OK, I think the gas models are likely more efficient and work a little better than electric units.

If I had it to do over, I 'd probably just go with a conventional water heater.


mardyn
That has been my experience in the new homes. They pull a full 70 amps when running, and are tough to regulate. With some patience, folks get use to them.
I honestly don't know if they save money or not. I tend to doubt it.

[Chili]

$12 P&T Relief Valve > $2500 new water heater!

X1000.. Replaced mine last year, it was simple.

http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=316523

I had the Home Depot Home Improvement book as a resource.