Athiests: Why Debate so Vigorously? Why Bother?

[BrianC]

Atheists... if you know for a fact that there is no God, then why fight it so adimently on here with Christians? Wouldn't that be a complete waste of time? Why bother with debating it at all? There must be SOME reason you feel this absolute need to debate the believers. Are you just cruel and want to make them feel stupid because they believe something differently than you? I mean, really, there must be a reason. What is it? Why is this such a big deal to you all?

I've spent a bit too much time on this forum, so this will be one of my last few posts. It's been fun.

[AdamLX]

Atheists... if you know for a fact that there is no God, then why fight it so adimently on here with Christians? Wouldn't that be a complete waste of time? Why bother with debating it at all? There must be SOME reason you feel this absolute need to debate the believers. Are you just cruel and want to make them feel stupid because they believe something differently than you? I mean, really, there must be a reason. What is it? Why is this such a big deal to you all?

I've spent a bit too much time on this forum, so this will be one of my last few posts. It's been fun.


From what I've seen Aethists have intellectual debates while the religous zealots are more apt to want to argue that Aethists are wrong and going to hell.

You're the only one on here that comes to mind about having a problem with open mindedness. All other christian vs. aethist debates are interesting until you decide to join in with mind numbing rhetoric about casting out ashtma demons over the phone.

[Way Cool Jr]

IMHO, the reason we have to debate is to stick up for ourselves. Christianity is forced upon us all the time, especially in politics and in goverment. It bothers me that there should be separation of church and state, but the christians feel that god belongs in public schools, in the pledge of allegiance, on courthouse lawns, on our money, etc.

I really don't have a problem with god, it is all of gods little helpers that make me angry.

[BLAKE]

Well, I'm not an athiest, but I can see how the positions, opinions, interpretations, and mindset of the evangelical (is that the right word?) Christian can be so mind boggling, that one might seek to impart some sort of wisdom, or shed light on a topic, or maybe just try and see what makes them tick.

You know, whenever someone has an opinion or stance that is so diametrically opposed to how you see it, it's both interesting and frustrating? Now add to it that said opinion is very vocal and, well... the debate rages on.

[exlude]

Atheists... if you know for a fact that there is no God, then why fight it so adimently on here with Christians? Wouldn't that be a complete waste of time? Why bother with debating it at all? There must be SOME reason you feel this absolute need to debate the believers. Are you just cruel and want to make them feel stupid because they believe something differently than you? I mean, really, there must be a reason. What is it? Why is this such a big deal to you all?

I've spent a bit too much time on this forum, so this will be one of my last few posts. It's been fun.

I try not to "debate" atheism v. christianity anymore, because it's a stupid argument. Not really much of anything you can do to argue it effectively, as it really is beyond anyone knowing.

My biggest arguing points here are mainly science based. Too often you see people misquoting/misrepresenting literature. And good gawd people suck at the concept of evolution.

[BrianC]

From what I've seen Aethists have intellectual debates while the religous zealots are more apt to want to argue that Aethists are wrong and going to hell.

You're the only one on here that comes to mind about having a problem with open mindedness. All other christian vs. aethist debates are interesting until you decide to join in with mind numbing rhetoric about casting out ashtma demons over the phone.

Ummm... I'm very open minded. I never forced anyone to believe anything. I did, however, demand that the either say, "I cannot explain this" or "this is how to disprove this." I enjoy being disproven so I can learn the truth. You call me close minded because you cannot disprove some of the things I've presented like the numerical prophecies. The demonic stuff are things I have experienced, and I don't expect anyone else to believe that stuff just because I said it. I was curious what you all would say about it, though, so I posted it. I didn't expect it would be proof of anything, though. It's just my personal experience.

Now, with multiples, though, that's not my experience alone. 100+ multiples were healed and attest to this, and I have helped many using the same methods and confirmed what the author of the book The Shining Man says about multiples and then seeing the spiritual world. As I said, I have chat logs with timestamps that are on Yahoo Messenger online, which cannot be altered on there, and they confirm this. I could post this stuff as proof, and even take screen shots of Yahoo Messenger online to show I didn't modify the chat log in any way. But that wouldn't convince you guys. You all don't want to believe this stuff, so you just skoff at it and me.

I just want to know why you all are so intent on disproving the believers. That's all. You'd think if God wasn't real, then you'd have a REALLY easy time disproving the stuff I put up here, but you don't. You never disproved one of the numerical prophecies. Gee, I wonder why...

[BrianC]

IMHO, the reason we have to debate is to stick up for ourselves. Christianity is forced upon us all the time, especially in politics and in goverment. It bothers me that there should be separation of church and state, but the christians feel that god belongs in public schools, in the pledge of allegiance, on courthouse lawns, on our money, etc.

I really don't have a problem with god, it is all of gods little helpers that make me angry.

Then debate this in the real world and not on a chat forum. This does nothing on here. That's not a good excuse for being on here debating us.

[exlude]

Then debate this in the real world and not on a chat forum. This does nothing on here. That's not a good excuse for being on here debating us.

Perhaps he does, and this is just another venue. Awfully presumptious of you.

[BrianC]

Well, I'm not an athiest, but I can see how the positions, opinions, interpretations, and mindset of the evangelical (is that the right word?) Christian can be so mind boggling, that one might seek to impart some sort of wisdom, or shed light on a topic, or maybe just try and see what makes them tick.

You know, whenever someone has an opinion or stance that is so diametrically opposed to how you see it, it's both interesting and frustrating? Now add to it that said opinion is very vocal and, well... the debate rages on.

I understand this, but they are not trying to learn what we believe. They are trying to disprove what we believe. It's very different. Someone that wants to learns asks questions and studies about what they want to learn. Someone that doesn't care to learn, but just wants to bad mouth others or disprove them will go up against them with only that intent, and it's obvious. The atheists in this forum don't care one bit about learning this stuff. They just want to skoff and try to disprove this stuff or make it look stupid. Not all of them, necessarily, but most that have posted in my threads.

[BrianC]

Perhaps he does, and this is just another venue. Awfully presumptious of you.

The point is that even if he does in the real world, there's no reason for him to be in here. I made not presumptions.

[exlude]

The point is that even if he does in the real world, there's no reason for him to be in here. I made not presumptions.

He already gave you his reason. If you weren't making presumptions, then you would realize it stood here as well as real world.

[BrianC]

I try not to "debate" atheism v. christianity anymore, because it's a stupid argument. Not really much of anything you can do to argue it effectively, as it really is beyond anyone knowing.

My biggest arguing points here are mainly science based. Too often you see people misquoting/misrepresenting literature. And good gawd people suck at the concept of evolution.

Yes, you do stick to science and that's appreciated. You are not more biblically based. I would ask you to read The Shining Man with Hurt Hands though, which pertains to multiples, and then look at my chat logs that confirm the stuff in that book and see what you think. I have had therapists and psychologist email me for advice after they saw how quickly I helped their patients make progress with MPD. Check out that book if you get time:

www.fish-house.com/pdf/ShiningMan.pdf

[BLAKE]

I understand this, but they are not trying to learn what we believe. They are trying to disprove what we believe. It's very different. Someone that wants to learns asks questions and studies about what they want to learn. Someone that doesn't care to learn, but just wants to bad mouth others or disprove them will go up against them with only that intent, and it's obvious. The atheists in this forum don't care one bit about learning this stuff. They just want to skoff and try to disprove this stuff or make it look stupid. Not all of them, necessarily, but most that have posted in my threads.

Nowhere in my initial post did I insinuate any "desire to learn". Again, I think it may come from a sense of frustration that someone can buy whole-hog into a belief system that they see as not only flawed, but ludicrous. And no offense intended (I honestly don't spend that much time in this forum, and I don't know you from Adam, lol), but they're not trying to make you look stupid. To them, you're doing a good job of that on your own.

[BrianC]

He already gave you his reason. If you weren't making presumptions, then you would realize it stood here as well as real world.

There is a big difference between debating people in here and making absolutely no difference, and going out into the real world fighting against the Christian movement. Here it does nothing. The real world does something.

[BrianC]

Nowhere in my initial post did I insinuate any "desire to learn". Again, I think it may come from a sense of frustration that someone can buy whole-hog into a belief system that they see as not only flawed, but ludicrous. And no offense intended (I honestly don't spend that much time in this forum, and I don't know you from Adam, lol), but they're not trying to make you look stupid. To them, you're doing a good job of that on your own.

There is nothing stupid about posting up numerical prophecies that happened, and then watching them have no idea how to disprove them, and completely overlook the fact that it's a statistical impossibility unless there is a God working behind the scenes that knows the future. They cannot explain this.

I never made myself look stupid. I share experiences with people just to get their reaction to it. Nothing wrong with this. They call the experiences bogus and stupid and ridiculous. I didn't make myself look stupid at all. I don't know where you get that from.

[Jester]

I didn't make myself look stupid at all. I don't know where you get that from.
Well, here is a pretty good example:
http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=345170

[BrianC]

Well, here is a pretty good example:
http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=345170

You think that makes me look stupid? That's funny, because the therapists that are working with these multiples sure don't think I'm stupid when I make huge progress with their patients in a matter of one or two months. I can post up screen shots of emails from therapists if you like where they email me and ask advice on helping their patients that are multiple. I can take screen shots of the yahoo chatlogs and post them too in order to show you the time stamps which are unaltered and prove what is in that book The Shining Man with Hurt Hands I mentioned. If you find helping people to be something worthy of making someone stupid, then you have serious issues.

[Jester]

You think that makes me look stupid? That's funny, because the therapists that are working with these multiples sure don't think I'm stupid when I make huge progress with their patients in a matter of one or two months. I can post up screen shots of emails from therapists if you like where they email me and ask advice on helping their patients that are multiple. I can take screen shots of the yahoo chatlogs and post them too in order to show you the time stamps which are unaltered and prove what is in that book The Shining Man with Hurt Hands I mentioned. If you find helping people to be something worthy of making someone stupid, then you have serious issues.
Helping people that are nuts is not that hard when you are also a nut.
You are the one seeing demons, nutsack, so I think you are the one needing help.

Well, I have multiple personalities, too. I have the guy that likes to jack off to porn, the guy that likes Michael Jackson music, the guy that loves chopper(I think he is the same one that digs the porn), then there is the one that has an appreciation for good wine, one that hates mowing the yard, one that loves mowing the yard, one that secretly wants to molest hairdryers, one that likes Michael Bolton(I hate that guy), and so on and so on and so on and so on. Hell, they even have different voices and accents.
But, I chalk it all up to just being a normal person with different moods thoughout the day and people like you make the porn/chopper guy come out and kill people like you.

[BrianC]

Helping people that are nuts is not that hard when you are also a nut.
You are the one seeing demons, nutsack, so I think you are the one needing help.

Well, I have multiple personalities, too. I have the guy that likes to jack off to porn, the guy that likes Michael Jackson music, the guy that loves chopper(I think he is the same one that digs the porn), then there is the one that has an appreciation for good wine, one that hates mowing the yard, one that loves mowing the yard, one that secretly wants to molest hairdryers, one that likes Michael Bolton(I hate that guy), and so on and so on and so on and so on. Hell, they even have different voices and accents.
But, I chalk it all up to just being a normal person with different moods thoughout the day and people like you make the porn/chopper guy come out and kill people like you.

I don't see demons. Never have. Don't know what you're talking about. My wife has seen them before, and a friend or two has seen them before. My wife is a Ph. D. student at UTD, so I don't think you'd be able to make a case that she's crazy. She's extremely sane.

As for multiple personality disorder, you have no clue how it works, and you just showed that. The therapists, who are not insane, seem to think that their patients have made HUGE progress when I've worked with them. You're calling them nuts too? Hmmmmm.... sounds a bit weird that hospitals would be hiring nutjobs to do their therapy. Get a life... You just want to be rude to people...

[Jester]

I don't see demons. Never have. Don't know what you're talking about. My wife has seen them before, and a friend or two has seen them before. My wife is a Ph. D. student at UTD, so I don't think you'd be able to make a case that she's crazy. She's extremely sane.

As for multiple personality disorder, you have no clue how it works, and you just showed that. The therapists, who are not insane, seem to think that their patients have made HUGE progress when I've worked with them. You're calling them nuts too? Hmmmmm.... sounds a bit weird that hospitals would be hiring nutjobs to do their therapy. Get a life... You just want to be rude to people...
No, I just call out nutjobs when I see them.
Can't wait for the thread when your wife thinks your dick is a demon and decides to chop it off.
Anyway, you have proven time and time again that you are a religious nut, and there is never any arguing with someone like you. Religious nutjobs(you) are too busy trying to convert not believers, starting cults, starting wars, and marrying people that see demons, to stop and actually try to search for the truth. Y'all would rather base all of your beliefs off a book written a few thousand years ago that has been edited God knows how many times.

Now, instead of debating people on here, I would be trying to get my wife some therapy for her demon seeing.

Good day to you, Sybil.

Oh, I just reread your demon thread..........you heard it and your wife saw it........my mistake.
COOCOO COOCOO

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Atheists... if you know for a fact that there is no God, then why fight it so adimently on here with Christians? Wouldn't that be a complete waste of time? Why bother with debating it at all? There must be SOME reason you feel this absolute need to debate the believers. Are you just cruel and want to make them feel stupid because they believe something differently than you? I mean, really, there must be a reason. What is it? Why is this such a big deal to you all?

I've spent a bit too much time on this forum, so this will be one of my last few posts. It's been fun.


I question things, it's just my nature.

I find it so hard to believe that people have so much faith in something that they don't know whether or not it even exists. I also find it funny, and ironic that the same people that believe in god and religion based primarily on a book, think they have the right to treat people that don't believe like lesser beings.... and don't get me started on scientology and religious folks opinion on them. As I have mentioned in other threads, all the religious people are equally crazy to me.

[Jester]

I question things, it's just my nature.

I find it so hard to believe that people have so much faith in something that they don't know whether or not it even exists. I also find it funny, and ironic that the same people that believe in god and religion based primarily on a book, think they have the right to treat people that don't believe like lesser beings.... and don't get me started on scientology and religious folks opinion on them. As I have mentioned in other threads, all the religious people are equally crazy to me.
ding ding ding, we have a winner

[flashstang04]

I don't see demons. Never have. Don't know what you're talking about. My wife has seen them before, and a friend or two has seen them before. My wife is a Ph. D. student at UTD, so I don't think you'd be able to make a case that she's crazy. She's extremely sane.

As for multiple personality disorder, you have no clue how it works, and you just showed that. The therapists, who are not insane, seem to think that their patients have made HUGE progress when I've worked with them. You're calling them nuts too? Hmmmmm.... sounds a bit weird that hospitals would be hiring nutjobs to do their therapy. Get a life... You just want to be rude to people...

http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/img/forum/dont-feed-the-troll.jpg

[exlude]

I don't see demons. Never have. Don't know what you're talking about. My wife has seen them before, and a friend or two has seen them before. My wife is a Ph. D. student at UTD, so I don't think you'd be able to make a case that she's crazy. She's extremely sane.

Lol, does being a Ph. D student prove you aren't crazy?

What was her undergrad and what is her grad work in? You seem to base most all of your arguments off of her acheivements/input.

[White trash wagon]

Well, here is a pretty good example:
http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=345170

I never read that thread, and I just went through it. WOW!!!! Reads like a bad novel. Religious faith taken to the extreme is insanity....Brian your getting close to the edge.

Reminds me of a friend's mother way back in high school. She said I had demons, her daughter had demons,that one of the bedroom doors in her house had demons. Years later I heard she was diagnosed as being schitzophrenic.

Scott

[8mpg]

I didnt read a single response... but Im not Atheist. I dont really push my views about church but get irritated when others try and push their views on me.

[DarkWolf]

I don't see demons. Never have. Don't know what you're talking about. My wife has seen them before, and a friend or two has seen them before. My wife is a Ph. D. student at UTD, so I don't think you'd be able to make a case that she's crazy. She's extremely sane.

Sounds like you've never heard of the thin line between genius and insanity.

Higher education doesn't exclude one from being mentally insane.

[Magnus]

How many people have killed someone in the name of god?
How many people have killed someone in the name of Atheism?

Thats all the proof i need to know who i should stand by. :)

[Mr Majestyk]

The main weakness I see repeatedly in this forum by those who attempt to discount Biblical Truths is that they have obviously never read, much less understand, what they are trying to discredit. The Bible reveals truths to those who study it on an individual, personal level, and those revelations are not something that can be spoonfed by me or other Christians to a disbeliever who is too lazy to learn and develop understanding for themselves. Science is a wonderful thing, and it clearly demonstrates the power of mans intellect and understanding. But it is not the be-all and end-all in and of itself, and as I have posted elsewhere I am sure, man can not and will never be able to pigeonhole everything in Gods Creation into scientific explanations.

[propellerhead]

To me it's just entertainment. I don't read much into the debates but it's sometimes fun to light a spark in a religious person knowing they'll go off on a long speech about why their chosen religion is the right one. It's like telling die hard Jeff Gordon fans that Jeff Gordon is gay. They get all defensive about it.

[BLAKE]

Well, here is a pretty good example:
http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=345170


Whoah, he's that guy?

Ok, apparently I have seen you around. I do, I suppose, know you from Adam, and I stand by my previous statement...

I prefer my wacko's to wear their crazy on their sleeves, so I know who to avoid. Thanks!

<- will now forever stay away from any and all 1992 Taurus SHO's that I may come in contact with.

[Magnus]

Well, here is a pretty good example:
http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=345170
Holy fuck-wack-job-batman.
Thats the kind of crazy that'll see a demon at Taco Bell, and kill everyone with a spork.

[poopnut2]

Why do christians stand on the sides of roads preaching? In front of abortion clinics telling people they're going to hell? Christians seem so eager to tell others their beliefs and the consequences of disagreeing, I feel that someone should speak for the other side.

[flashstang04]

Why do christians stand on the sides of roads preaching? In front of abortion clinics telling people they're going to hell? Christians seem so eager to tell others their beliefs and the consequences of disagreeing, I feel that someone should speak for the other side.


Well to answer your question directly, that is what Christians are called to do:

Matthew 28:16-20:

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

I suppose that won't satisfy your "question", but that is what we do why we do.

As far as standing out of abortion clinics and telling them they will go to hell...no real Christian should do that. You can't threaten people with what they don't believe in. It is better to respond with sympathy most of the time.

[Brain_Mach1]

How many people have killed someone in the name of god?
How many people have killed someone in the name of Atheism?

Thats all the proof i need to know who i should stand by. :)
In the 20th Century, I can think of 3 very deadly athists: Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, & Mao Zedong.

[Brain_Mach1]

Why do christians stand on the sides of roads preaching? In front of abortion clinics telling people they're going to hell? Christians seem so eager to tell others their beliefs and the consequences of disagreeing, I feel that someone should speak for the other side.
I am curious if anyone caught any of the footage from the March for Life from Washington DC?

I know that there are people who claim to know who is going to hell, but they are the acception not the rule. Do a search on the Catholic Catechism and you will not find a list of violations which sends a person to hell.

In fact, we all know that the Church has a lidt of people who are "absolutely" known saved called saints. There is no list for people who are damned.

Could it be that you have seen a few people speaking damnation and ignored those who preach the positive life? It certainly does not make for interesting news.

[White trash wagon]

In the 20th Century, I can think of 3 very deadly athists: Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, & Mao Zedong.

None of those people acted in the name of atheism, they acted in the name of personal amibition. You could also state Stalin, Pot and Zedong were all meat eaters,which also had nothing to do with thier murders.

I know of no war ever started by atheists to wipe out religioius people. Before you mention Hitler & the holocaust....Hitler was not an athiest,he was a Catholic. So the holocaust was one religion trying to wipe out another.

[JKD]

Atheists... if you know for a fact that there is no God, then why fight it so adimently on here with Christians? Wouldn't that be a complete waste of time? Why bother with debating it at all? There must be SOME reason you feel this absolute need to debate the believers. Are you just cruel and want to make them feel stupid because they believe something differently than you? I mean, really, there must be a reason. What is it? Why is this such a big deal to you all?

I've spent a bit too much time on this forum, so this will be one of my last few posts. It's been fun.


You don't seem me in here arguing trying to convince anyone there is or isn't a God or Satan. Seems silly to me to try and change someone's mind abut religion over the internet.

I don't have a problem with you being religious at all as long as you aren't one of those people who push on others in person. Online I can simply move to another thread and ignore it. In person, you bring the subject up, I'm just going to tell you that you have no proof of heaven or hell.

[Mr Majestyk]

You have no proof either that Lincoln ever gave the Gettysburg Address, yet you and the rest of us accept that he did based on (gasp!) faith. Faith in the historians who tell us he did. Faith in the recorded recollections of those who were there. It's no different accepting the Bible on faith.

[Jester]

You have no proof either that Lincoln ever gave the Gettysburg Address, yet you and the rest of accept that he did based on (gasp!) faith. Faith in the historians who tell us he did. Faith in the recorded recollections of those who were there. It's no different accepting the Bible on faith.
except that the Gettysburg address has not gone thru a couple thousand years worth of editing.

[exlude]

except that the Gettysburg address has not gone thru a couple thousand years worth of editing.

And Lincoln didn't give the Gettysburg address from another dimension/methaphysical plane/the supernatural world.

[Mr Majestyk]

It's still accepted, on faith, that he gave it, and that he gave it in the format we know today. That's the key word....faith.

[Magnus]

It's still accepted, on faith, that he gave it, and that he gave it in the format we know today. That's the key word....faith.
Lets not forget the photographs of Lincoln at gettysburg. . ..fucking tard.

I've got a little more bit more faith in a photograph than a picture of hey-zeus burned into a large tortilla.

[Brain_Mach1]

None of those people acted in the name of atheism, they acted in the name of personal amibition. You could also state Stalin, Pot and Zedong were all meat eaters,which also had nothing to do with thier murders.All were leaders of regimes which were anti-religion, as in no-god, i.e. Atheist.

Are Atheists denying the existance of Atheists? :confused:

I know of no war ever started by atheists to wipe out religioius people. Before you mention Hitler & the holocaust....Hitler was not an athiest,he was a Catholic. So the holocaust was one religion trying to wipe out another.Um, Hitler WAS baptized a Catholic as a Child but was in no-way practicing. Stalin WAS in seminary before he became a communist. :eek:

If I recall correctly exlude WAS a Christian before he was Atheist.

[JKD]

You have no proof either that Lincoln ever gave the Gettysburg Address, yet you and the rest of us accept that he did based on (gasp!) faith. Faith in the historians who tell us he did. Faith in the recorded recollections of those who were there. It's no different accepting the Bible on faith.


I'm not tryin to rest the lives and souls of humanity on the Gettysburg Address either.


You have NO proof of heaven or hell.

[Mr Majestyk]

Lets not forget the photographs of Lincoln at gettysburg. . ..fucking tard.

I've got a little more bit more faith in a photograph than a picture of hey-zeus burned into a large tortilla.

Cool, got him using the F word now. I've obviously gotten under the stupid bastards skin LOL

[Magnus]

Cool, got him using the F word now. I've obviously gotten under the stupid bastards skin LOL
Nice job of dodging the subject. Nice to see i've got you scrambling to change topics. :)

[exlude]

All were leaders of regimes which were anti-religion, as in no-god, i.e. Atheist.

Are Atheists denying the existance of Atheists? :confused:

Um, Hitler WAS baptized a Catholic as a Child but was in no-way practicing. Stalin WAS in seminary before he became a communist. :eek:

If I recall correctly exlude WAS a Christian before he was Atheist.

Well damn, my name used in the same breath as Hitler. lol!

[Mr Majestyk]

Nice job of dodging the subject. Nice to see i've got you scrambling to change topics. :)

Nice to see you've calmed down :)

[Mr Majestyk]

Lets not forget the photographs of Lincoln at gettysburg. . ..fucking tard.

I've got a little more bit more faith in a photograph than a picture of hey-zeus burned into a large tortilla.

pwnd

So, you have the "supernatural" ability to discern what Lincoln was saying from still photographs circa 1863. You "know" that the photographs depict him delivering what we call the Gettysburg Address, and accept them without "proof" that the photographs could have been taken elsewhere? Sounds like you're a man a faith; either that or you can hear voices that we lesser folk cannot from still photographs taken about 30 years before Edison started dabbling with talking motion pictures.

Oh, by the way, to use your chosen language, you're no fucking good at debate....you trip yourself up and don't even know it.

[Magnus]

pwnd

So, you have the "supernatural" ability to discern what Lincoln was saying from still photographs circa 1863. You "know" that the photographs depict him delivering what we call the Gettysburg Address, and accept them without "proof" that the photographs could have been taken elsewhere? Sounds like you're a man a faith; either that or you can hear voices that we lesser folk cannot from still photographs taken about 30 years before Edison started dabbling with talking motion pictures.

Oh, by the way, to use your chosen language, you're no fucking good at debate....you trip yourself up and don't even know it.
Lets see. . . who to believe. .. . people who claim to see talking bushes on fire, or several eye witness accounts, newpapers, and a letter signed by the man himself. . . yea, i guess you're right. . . in your own mind.

Religious people are never any good in debate, seeing as how they root their argument in something that can be disproved as easily as proved. . . its like arguing schrodinger's cat, but never opening the box to see who is right.

[Nestromo]

All were leaders of regimes which were anti-religion, as in no-god, i.e. Atheist.

Are Atheists denying the existance of Atheists? :confused:

Um, Hitler WAS baptized a Catholic as a Child but was in no-way practicing. Stalin WAS in seminary before he became a communist. :eek:

If I recall correctly exlude WAS a Christian before he was Atheist.


Adolf Hitler was an atheist!
"Hitler was an atheist, and look at what he did!"

Adolf Hitler was emphatically not an atheist. As he said himself:

The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. [original italics]

For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other.

[...]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. [original italics]

[Adolf Hitler, from "Mein Kampf," translation by Ralph Mannheim.]


Hitler certainly appeared at times to be a theist, and claimed to be a Christian:

The Führer made it known to those entrusted with the Final Solution that the killings should be done as humanely as possible. This was in line with his conviction that he was observing God's injunction to cleanse the world of vermin. Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy ("I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so" [quoting Hitler]), he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God--so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty.

[Pulitzer Prize winner John Toland
from "Adolf Hitler," pp 507, talking about the Autumn of 1941.]

The "I am now as before a Catholic..." quotation from Hitler was recorded in the diary of Gerhard Engel, an SS Adjutant, in October 1941. Hitler was speaking in private, not before a mass audience, and so it is difficult to dismiss the comment as propaganda lies.

Of course, someone bad believing something does not make that belief wrong. It's also entirely possible that Hitler was lying when he claimed to believe in God. We certainly can't conclude that he's an atheist, though.



http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/arguments.html#hitler

[Saladbar]

Who created UFO's?

[Nestromo]

Who created UFO's?

The Lord.

[Mr Majestyk]

Lets see. . . who to believe. .. . people who claim to see talking bushes on fire, or several eye witness accounts, newpapers, and a letter signed by the man himself. . . yea, i guess you're right. . . in your own mind.

Religious people are never any good in debate, seeing as how they root their argument in something that can be disproved as easily as proved. . . its like arguing schrodinger's cat, but never opening the box to see who is right.

God does not exist only within the limits of mankinds understanding. Thus man can never prove or disprove through only the use of logic that the hand of God is behind events recorded in the Bible.

[Mr Majestyk]

I'm not tryin to rest the lives and souls of humanity on the Gettysburg Address either.


You have NO proof of heaven or hell.

I have no proof of hell, nor do care to or expect any reason to have to find any.

My proof of Heaven is comes straight fom the Bible, that is, our Saviour Jesus Christ.

[flashstang04]

Nobody has proof that there is not..error on the side of caution....

[Magnus]

I have no proof of hell, nor do care to or expect any reason to have to find any.

My proof of Heaven is comes straight fom the Bible, that is, our Saviour Jesus Christ.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/godmagnus/53zgjo4.jpg

Nobody has proof that there is not..error on the side of fear....
Fixed.

[flashstang04]

LOL people still edit quotes?

I guess I did that too when I was a kid though.

I was never scared into anything.....so that is just plain wrong. Try again.

[exlude]

LOL people still edit quotes?

I guess I did that too when I was a kid though.

I was never scared into anything.....so that is just plain wrong. Try again.

Not that I would edit your quote, but to an extent...erring on the side of caution IS erring on the side of fear. I think if there is a god, that believing in him "just to be safe" will get you about as far as not believing in him at all.

[Mr Majestyk]

Editing quotes does show a lack of intellectual discipline and abilities, but it's OK and even somewhat expected given that this is a car forum.

[flashstang04]

Not that I would edit your quote, but to an extent...erring on the side of caution IS erring on the side of fear. I think if there is a god, that believing in him "just to be safe" will get you about as far as not believing in him at all.


Well maybe I should have clarified that it was more of a generalized statement. I don't consider my conversion a product of being cautious or scared. I was faced with my own sin after a long time being involved in stuff I shouldn't have. And it was gone instantly after I became a Christian.

[exlude]

Well maybe I should have clarified that it was more of a generalized statement. I don't consider my conversion a product of being cautious or scared. I was faced with my own sin after a long time being involved in stuff I shouldn't have. And it was gone instantly after I became a Christian.

Yeah, I know what you meant and wasn't accusing you of that. Was just giving my .02 :)

[Brain_Mach1]

Well damn, my name used in the same breath as Hitler. lol!I mean no offence. Just pointing to the fact that a person can change their view or a person does not have to follow the way their parents raised them. :)

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Well maybe I should have clarified that it was more of a generalized statement. I don't consider my conversion a product of being cautious or scared. I was faced with my own sin after a long time being involved in stuff I shouldn't have. And it was gone instantly after I became a Christian.


Please explain this just a little more. All your past 'sin' was erased when you became christian?

[flashstang04]

Please explain this just a little more. All your past 'sin' was erased when you became christian?

I went into great detail of the things I was into in other threads..it's all in there. If you are just meaning about sin in general..that is pretty much a basic Gospel principle. Once you are in Christ, your sin is far as east is from west.

[Magnus]

Editing quotes does show a lack of intellectual discipline and abilities, but it's OK and even somewhat expected given that this is a car forum.


http://atheistempire.com/entertainment/images/imaginary_friend.gif

[Mr Majestyk]

Those who resort to cartoons fall in the same category as those who edit others posts; it's humorous to see in a junior high school sort of way. Not unexpected of course from such a mental lightweight though LOL.

[svtaaron]

i like to say
"proof needs no faith and faith needs no proof" but be it if you are athiest or christian, your understanding or "belief" if you will, is still heavily reliant on faith.

[White trash wagon]

All were leaders of regimes which were anti-religion, as in no-god, i.e. Atheist.

Are Atheists denying the existance of Atheists? :confused:

Um, Hitler WAS baptized a Catholic as a Child but was in no-way practicing. Stalin WAS in seminary before he became a communist. :eek:

If I recall correctly exlude WAS a Christian before he was Atheist.

Hitler was born a Catholic, and Catholics are not baptized! As a child, Hilter was in the choir, and wanted to be a Catholic priest until he was 12, after that Hitler wanted to be an artist. To think that if the Vienna Institute of Art had accepted Hilter in 1907, WWII might have never happened.

He never renounced his religion, moreover, although he ran a secular government,he worked with the Catholic church & even passed legislation (the Reichskonkordat) on Sept 10,1933 guaranteeing the Catholic Church freedoms similar as in the USA. The Vatican recognized this agreement.

Anti-religion does not mean "no God", it means you don't like a religion. Are all the christians who say they "hate" Islam....are they "no god".. hence athiest?

Scott

[Brain_Mach1]

Hitler was born a Catholic, and Catholics are not baptized! As a child, Hilter was in the choir, and wanted to be a Catholic priest until he was 12, after that Hitler wanted to be an artist. To think that if the Vienna Institute of Art had accepted Hilter in 1907, WWII might have never happened.

He never renounced his religion, moreover, although he ran a secular government,he worked with the Catholic church & even passed legislation (the Reichskonkordat) on Sept 10,1933 guaranteeing the Catholic Church freedoms similar as in the USA. The Vatican recognized this agreement.

Anti-religion does not mean "no God", it means you don't like a religion. Are all the christians who say they "hate" Islam....are they "no god".. hence athiest?

Scott
I did not bring Hitler up, but Hitler was a cult or personalty and a propogandist. His public speeches and his private comments differ.

Yes the Reichskonkordat protects the rights of the Catholic church. The US has the 1st amendment. Many Catholic priests and nuns were still imprissoned.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

Remember, his the Nazis never received a majoirty vote in public elections.

According to Wikipedia, "Dachau had a special "priest block." Of the 2720 priests (among them 2579 Catholic) held in Dachau, 1034 did not survive the camp. The majority were Polish (1780), of whom 868 died in Dachau."

If this is what happens to Hitler's friends....

Drop the Hitler thing, it wasn't even me who brought it up.

And communists are aethiests. It is true. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.

[White trash wagon]

Drop the Hitler thing, it wasn't even me who brought it up.

Yes, I brought up Hitler, and in no way approve of anything he did. But to say Hitler waged an athiest war on all religion is flat wrong. Hitler was a meglomaniac who wanted to establish a German empire and rule all of Europe, but religion had little to do with it. The holocaust is something that happened within WWII, not the cause of it. And none of the Allies entered the war to specifically defend the Jews. If it makes you feel better Hitler was a Roman Catholic.

Since your a Catholic, I'm stunned you stated anyone is baptized as a Catholic.

Scott

[FSON]

Nobody has proof that there is not..error on the side of caution....
So you do not "Know The Lord" as they say?

[FSON]

Yes, I brought up Hitler, and in no way approve of anything he did. But to say Hitler waged an athiest war on all religion is flat wrong. Hitler was a meglomaniac who wanted to establish a German empire and rule all of Europe, but religion had little to do with it. The holocaust is something that happened within WWII, not the cause of it. And none of the Allies entered the war to specifically defend the Jews. If it makes you feel better Hitler was a Roman Catholic.

Since your a Catholic, I'm stunned you stated anyone is baptized as a Catholic.

Scott
What were Hitler's specific reasons for his stand on Jews?

[Brain_Mach1]

Since your a Catholic, I'm stunned you stated anyone is baptized as a Catholic.

Scott

Please explain. I don't understand your comment.

All Catholics are baptized as a Catholic. :confused: Catholics do recognize baptism in other Christian Churches as being valid.

Catholicism teach:

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

Catholics do not have a "once saved, always saved" assumption of salvation, so there is no assumption about hitler other than an assumption he is in hell from the lack of fruits of salvation.

I think most people would agree that Hitler's sins probably prevented his his Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. :D

[White trash wagon]

What were Hitler's specific reasons for his stand on Jews?

Hitler claimed that the Jews had "stabbed Germany in the back" during WWI. The Jewish controlled international banks supposedly had a hand in Germany's defeat by sabotaging Germany's finances. I don't beleive that but, Germany was doing well in WWI, then just stopped, they were the only army in modern history to surrender while still occupying a conquered land (part of France).

But European hatred of Jews goes back 2000 years or more. Initially the Nazi's had a lot of sympthyers....like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh.

Scott

[White trash wagon]

Please explain. I don't understand your comment.

All Catholics are baptized as a Catholic. :confused: Catholics do recognize baptism in other Christian Churches as being valid. :D

My mistake, I was thinking in terms of Protestant type baptism, ie, full immersion baptism administered at the age of consent. Catholics don't do that.

Scott

[FSON]

But European hatred of Jews goes back 2000 years or more. Initially the Nazi's had a lot of sympthyers....like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh.

Scott

That is where I was going. What is the reason for this?

[White trash wagon]

That is where I was going. What is the reason for this?

Some say because the Jews did have a long history of screwing people over on financial transactions. But I haven't really researched that.

[FSON]

Some say because the Jews did have a long history of screwing people over on financial transactions. But I haven't really researched that.
Usury? Only legal in the Ghetto?

[Casper]

Actually, during the last decades of Tsarist Russia, many jews migrated to prussia (germany, austria, hungary) and instigated the downfall of the Tsar from the safety of western universities. Many stayed and pushed for communist "reform" there. They were politically very active. It was almost a given, and certainly a common perception, that jews in Germany were communists. Consider that the jewish communists were a very real threat to the tsar. It is postulated that "the protocols of the elders of zion" was propoganda written by the Tsar's secret police, and the scenario is quite probable.

At the middle of WWI, victory was pretty much up to the german's to fritter away. England was all but defeated. They had barely a week before the population would starve to death. Germany offered England an armistice, offering a status pro ante bellum, meaning the lines would revert to pre-war status.

This is where the speculation comes in, but it was and is believable, and quite a bit is verifiable. Wilson had run on an anti-war campaign. The US populace didn't want to be involved. You think Iraq is unpopular? WWI was even more unpopular.

The story goes that england was promised, by jewish agents, US intervention if they would only reject the armistice. In return, England was to promise palestine to the jews, even though it was under German control. This is known as the balfour declaration. It was not revealed.

The story continues that jewish agents blackmailed Wilson into joining the war. The war was eventually won, and suddenly the balfour declaration was revealed. Whether all of this was a grand conspiracy or only circumstantial, it did not look that way to the germans. And they were ass-raped completely after the war. There were two growing movements, national socialism and communism. Communism in germany was a victim of its own connections with russian jews and the perceptions of what went on behind closed doors in WWI.

The Nazi party, once in power, began purging communists, many of whom were Jews. Especially the intelligientsia. They found it quite easy to tie jews in with communists, and the tsarist propaganda was very useful in that respect. Not to mention the feeling that german jews had sold their country out before and would do so again.

It is ironic (some say planned) that germany agreed to only allow jews to leave if they were relocating to palestine. On the one hand the zionists insured jewish migration to palestine, and on the other the germans looked like bad guys for not allowing the german jews to leave except to go to palestine. huge propaganda machine was churning out anti-german sentiment worldwide, some deserved, some BS. In fact, jews of the world openly declred war on germany before Krystalnacht.

It really doesn't matter the truth behind the whole ordeal, because the preceptions in germany were:

Jews were communists
Jews sold out the fatherland
Jews were unpatriotic, disloyal, and anti-german.
Jews caused the suffering of germans after WWI
Jews were a recent (in the last 200 years) phenomenon in the teutonic states. This really is fairly true, although there were teutonic jews for several centuries.

What started as a political purge turned into a badge of nationalism and a perceived duty to rid germany of malcontents and traitors. this of course carried over to any occupied lands. In france, for instance, it was widely viewed as a welcome change when the Vichy government agreed to deport all jews.

Kind of like viewing all muslims as terrorists. There are those who are convinced that the culture is incompatible with western society, and "something has to be done". History is full of cultural similar cultural clashes. the Iberian peninsula has had its share of oppression. Asia Minor. Southeast Asia. The carribean. Pretty much anywhere two disparate cultures collide.

[ModdinArt]

What I have always found interesting about religions is they are always bellowed as fact. Every belief, every opinion, every hope and every faith yelled as if it's a fact. People yelling these "facts" will not only argue for their point, they will freakin kill. Every war revolves around flavor differences of religion/greed. I mention greed because this is what every religion is based on. That mighty dolla... hence the need to recruit so.

My god doesnt have a cash flow problem. He doesnt even wanna burn me if I sport wood lookin at boobies. He's also not in "heaven" waiting for me should I be lucky enough or strong enough to pass some random tests of intsicts he created. No, he's in me, all around me and in everything I see.

religion has always seperated people from God.

[Casper]

Every war revolves around flavor differences of religion/greed.

I think that is an awfully broad brush.

The justification for something is not always the actual reason behind it.

[Mr Majestyk]

What I have always found interesting about religions is they are always bellowed as fact. Every belief, every opinion, every hope and every faith yelled as if it's a fact. People yelling these "facts" will not only argue for their point, they will freakin kill. Every war revolves around flavor differences of religion/greed. I mention greed because this is what every religion is based on. That mighty dolla... hence the need to recruit so.

My god doesnt have a cash flow problem. He doesnt even wanna burn me if I sport wood lookin at boobies. He's also not in "heaven" waiting for me should I be lucky enough or strong enough to pass some random tests of intsicts he created. No, he's in me, all around me and in everything I see.

religion has always seperated people from God.

Not true. Look no further than the American Civil War for an example of a war fought for reasons that had nothing to do with religion.

[Casper]

Good example.

[White trash wagon]

Every war revolves around flavor differences of religion/greed.

Not true, only 80% of all wars were fought because of religion.

Scott

[Mr Majestyk]

World Wars I and II, the Korean conflict, and the Vietnam War were not fought for any religious reasons as well.....seems the wars that cost the most in honored American lives have had nothing at all to do with religion.

[ModdinArt]

what did they have to do with then?
it's always money/religion.
two in the same.

hell we are over there killin rotten muslims we have never met right now, man.

the very term "God Bless America" means "and fuck everybody else."

[flashstang04]

what did they have to do with then?
it's always money/religion.
two in the same.

hell we are over there killin rotten muslims we have never met right now, man.

the very term "God Bless America" means "and fuck everybody else."

(Pretty sure you MEANT to say "one and the same")

I think you are just making assumptions...you will find (most) of the people in here well read.

If you always say everything is money/religion....and that they are the same (ridiculous generalization) then you win every conversation don't you.

[Mr Majestyk]

what did they have to do with then?
it's always money/religion.
two in the same.

hell we are over there killin rotten muslims we have never met right now, man.

the very term "God Bless America" means "and fuck everybody else."


Money and religion are two different things, at least in my life. The Civil War was fought primarily for economic and sovereignty issues. The other wars I listed involved alliances, ethnic conflicts, political differences, and hegemonic aspirations. Too bad you weren't around yet at the end of WWII to ask, for example, the French and liberated Jews if "God Bless America" meant "fuck everybody else".

Excuse my French but "fuck you, asshole"

[Casper]

Money and religion are two different things

I think that is where his confusion lies. In his worldview the evils of unrestricted greed and the evils of clandestine power are one and the same.

You can certainly have corrupt religious authorities.

You can also have corrupt power brokers.

The two can sometimes be the same. But the spectrum of human beings contains people who are one of the two, both, or neither.

[Muffrazr]

what did they have to do with then?
it's always money/religion.
two in the same.

hell we are over there killin rotten muslims we have never met right now, man.

the very term "God Bless America" means "and fuck everybody else."


Wow dude. The current war we are in does have ties to a religion, however, it is mostly due to radical religious zealots who beleive less of us. Money does not go hand in hand with religion. Sure, some people make there income from religion, but the world is not so black and white. Open your mind, release your pre-concieved notions, and gain some understanding. This way you won't be stuck with generalizing statements.

Oh, and don't bad mouth America. We do the best we can with what we have.

[White trash wagon]

World Wars I and II, the Korean conflict, and the Vietnam War were not fought for any religious reasons as well.....seems the wars that cost the most in honored American lives have had nothing at all to do with religion.

I would agree with that, but history DOES pre-date the USA, as does religion. Reach farther back in the history books & you'll see a pattern.

Although you buddy, BrianC says WWII & Korea were fought in the name of Atheism :rolleyes:

Scott

[Brain_Mach1]

I would agree with that, but history DOES pre-date the USA, as does religion. Reach farther back in the history books & you'll see a pattern.

Although you buddy, BrianC says WWII & Korea were fought in the name of Atheism :rolleyes:

ScottBryanC has not been on the board in a long time so I assume you mean Brain_Mach1.

I don't believe anyone mentioned Korea.

Brain_Mach1 said the deadliest regimes were Communist such as Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao Tse Tung. They killed massive portions of their own population. The Communists governments are officially athiest.

But, we add Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il to the list of people killing in the name of no God. however, I would put them in the catagory of athiests who kill and opposed to killing because of athieism. Like a Christian who kills as opposed to someone actually killing in the name of their God.

There is a difference.

[Mr Majestyk]

No, he meant BrianC...he must have made quite an impression on Wtw, LOL

[White trash wagon]

BryanC has not been on the board in a long time so I assume you mean Brain_Mach1.

BrianC posted this thread :rolleyes: .................. I hope you read your bible with more attention.

Scott

[BrianC]

Lol, does being a Ph. D student prove you aren't crazy?

What was her undergrad and what is her grad work in? You seem to base most all of your arguments off of her acheivements/input.

You can look her up online if you like. She has two bachelors degrees from TCU. One in music and one in speech language pathology. She has a masters from UTD in Speech Language Pathology and is a license speech pathologist. She's on her last year of her Ph.D. in Cognative Neuro Science. Here's one of her publications:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UWAicqU4KooC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=lori+cook+brain&source=web&ots=plx8PQ0oZg&sig=b-k98-hyhwuywes1AJX-x6XnDQg&hl=en

Here's one of the UTD Center for Brain Health pages she's on:
http://www.brainhealth.utdallas.edu/research/injury.html

Yeah, it's pretty easy to find a working and published Ph.D. student.

You ask anyone that knows her and they'll tell you she's one of the most grounded people they know. There's nothing irrational or insane about her. I use her as reference sometimes because she actually is a scientist that does research and can give a scientist's point of view on things.

[BrianC]

I question things, it's just my nature.

I find it so hard to believe that people have so much faith in something that they don't know whether or not it even exists. I also find it funny, and ironic that the same people that believe in god and religion based primarily on a book, think they have the right to treat people that don't believe like lesser beings.... and don't get me started on scientology and religious folks opinion on them. As I have mentioned in other threads, all the religious people are equally crazy to me.

I don't look down on anyone, especially the non-religious. I am not religious at all. I believe, but religious to me represents someone that goes to church and falls in lock-step with their beliefs. I follow Christ, and that's it. I go to a church that I like, but not very often, because I spend more time studying this stuff at home and learn a lot more that way. Church is place you go to hang out with other Christians and hear a guy's opinion on something biblical...that's it. Nothing more. I actually will get down on the religious and preachers due to false doctrine and religious servitude and legalism. But I won't beat up on an atheist. The atheists doesn't know any better. If an atheists starts attacking me, that's different. I'll share the truth with him and see if he can rebuttle. But I don't look down on him.

I think there are a lot of atheists out there with better morals and lives than a lot of religious people to be honest. Religious people know better and still do immoral, stupid things, teach false doctrines and look down on people all while claiming to be representing God. That's disgusting... At least atheists aren't doing these things in God's name. They're just doing what it is they do... Atheists that have this undying need to go off on religious people, I have a problem with them, only because they shouldn't be concerned with the religious if they're delusional. lol Yet they find it so important to disprove them or make them look stupid, when in reality, all they're doing is feeding their ego and trying to place their beliefs (or lack their of) on others.

[BrianC]

I would agree with that, but history DOES pre-date the USA, as does religion. Reach farther back in the history books & you'll see a pattern.

Although you buddy, BrianC says WWII & Korea were fought in the name of Atheism :rolleyes:

Scott

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't believe I've mentioned WWII or Korea. I saw Hitler mentioned earlier as a catholic, but actually, if you read up on it, Hitler was Hindu most likely, because that's where he got the shwastica and SS symbols. The Shwastica is a Hindu cross you find on churches, and the SS symbol on the Gistapo's arms are the same symbol you find on Hindu black magician's robes. Psychologists today say that Hitler suffered from some psychological disorder that brought delusions of grandure. Don't remember the name of the disorder. Guess that's why he was always looking for a holy relic to gain power for world domination. Who knows?

[BrianC]

Wow dude. The current war we are in does have ties to a religion, however, it is mostly due to radical religious zealots who beleive less of us. Money does not go hand in hand with religion. Sure, some people make there income from religion, but the world is not so black and white. Open your mind, release your pre-concieved notions, and gain some understanding. This way you won't be stuck with generalizing statements.

Oh, and don't bad mouth America. We do the best we can with what we have.

Well, to correct his statement about money and religion... there ARE a lot of churches that are all about the money and care nothing about the religion. Then there are a lot of churches who don't care about the money as well. That's the reality of it... What percentage I have no idea...

[Brain_Mach1]

BrianC posted this thread :rolleyes: .................. I hope you read your bible with more attention.

ScottLet's see. BrianC started the thread on 1/30 and did not post again until 2/29. Brain_Mach1 made several posts in the thread throughout the time frame.

Doing a page search for Korea and WWII, neither BrianC nor Brain_Mach1 posted about either.

Brain_Mach1 posted about Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. BrianC did not.

I would say that I researched the thread very well. :D

I hope I read the bible with as much or more attention. :D

There is more to a book than just a title.

[White trash wagon]

I saw Hitler mentioned earlier as a catholic, but actually, if you read up on it, Hitler was Hindu most likely, because that's where he got the shwastica and SS symbols. The Shwastica is a Hindu cross you find on churches, and the SS symbol on the Gistapo's arms are the same symbol you find on Hindu black magician's robes. Psychologists today say that Hitler suffered from some psychological disorder that brought delusions of grandure. Don't remember the name of the disorder. Guess that's why he was always looking for a holy relic to gain power for world domination. Who knows?

The Swastika is simple geometric symbol that's been in use for thousands of years in cultures all over the world. Native American Indians used the swastika in thier art, are you now going to say Hitler was Navajo?

Scott

[flashstang04]

The Swastika is simple geometric symbol that's been in use for thousands of years in cultures all over the world. Native American Indians used the swastika in thier art, are you now going to say Hitler was Navajo?

Scott


Not entirely true... While the shape has been used by many cultures...the "Swastika" is from India...


* China - wan
* England - fylfot
* Germany - Hakenkreuz
* Greece - tetraskelion and gammadion
* India - swastika


May be the same looking symbol, but only one swastika

[FSON]

There is a Swastika and a Swavastika... as I understand it, different rotation directions. This could be important.


"The Swastika refers only to the rt. hand spinning cross such as used in Nazi Germany, the more correct & older version is called the Swavastika and spins the opposite direction. Hitler subverted the older symbol for his own perverse reasons.

The left hand Swavastika refer to the male & the right hand Swastika refers female. In Hinduism the swastika has represented two forms of Brahma. Clockwise it represents Pravritti or the evolution of the universe flowing outward & counter clockwise it represented Nirvritti the involution of the universe."

[BrianC]

There is a Swastika and a Swavastika... as I understand it, different rotation directions. This could be important.


"The Swastika refers only to the rt. hand spinning cross such as used in Nazi Germany, the more correct & older version is called the Swavastika and spins the opposite direction. Hitler subverted the older symbol for his own perverse reasons.

The left hand Swavastika refer to the male & the right hand Swastika refers female. In Hinduism the swastika has represented two forms of Brahma. Clockwise it represents Pravritti or the evolution of the universe flowing outward & counter clockwise it represented Nirvritti the involution of the universe."

Correct. I didn't meantion the swastika being turned around backwards. But the fact that the SS symbol is also used shows that Hilter got this from India, and no where else. Not that you were debating this, but others were.