Hillary may be in trouble

[White trash wagon]

Not that I'm impressed with the Kennedy's, but they do have a lot of power. The balance may have tipped towards Obama. Obama vs Romney?

MACON, Ga. - Democratic Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts will endorse Senate colleague Barack Obama for president, party officials confirmed Sunday.

The endorsement will be announced Monday in Washington, said the officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak for the record. An official close to the senator said the announcement will be made during an Obama campaign rally at American University, where he will be joined by Sen. Kennedy and his niece, Caroline Kennedy, who also has endorsed Obama.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22873162

[ayzo]

Yea she's panicking, Obama already has the endorsement of Caroline Kennedy, Patrick Kennedy, and now Ted Kennedy. I think thats a qualified pimp-slap from the Kennedy family to the Clinton duo.

[black01gt]

Yea she's panicking, Obama already has the endorsement of Caroline Kennedy, Patrick Kennedy, and now Ted Kennedy. I think thats a qualified pimp-slap from the Kennedy family to the Clinton duo.
I would think an endorsment from Ted Kennedy would be the kiss of death. But this county has gotten pretty goofy. :confused:

[Nestromo]

Yea she's panicking, Obama already has the endorsement of Caroline Kennedy, Patrick Kennedy, and now Ted Kennedy. I think thats a qualified pimp-slap from the Kennedy family to the Clinton duo.

:eek:

[JP135]

Yea she's panicking, Obama already has the endorsement of Caroline Kennedy, Patrick Kennedy, and now Ted Kennedy. I think thats a qualified pimp-slap from the Kennedy family to the Clinton duo.

AWESOME sig, due! I can't stop laughing.

[Mr Majestyk]

I would think an endorsment from Ted Kennedy would be the kiss of death. But this county has gotten pretty goofy. :confused:

To me an endorsement from Ted Kennedy would make me drop his endorsee like a hot turd, but then again I don't live in Assachusetts. Good 'ole Bill seems to be doing as much to torpedo Hillarys chances recently as much as anything.

Keep up the good work Willie :D

[Nestromo]

To me an endorsement from Ted Kennedy would make me drop his endorsee like a hot turd, but then again I don't live in Assachusetts. Good 'ole Bill seems to be doing as much to torpedo Hillarys chances recently as much as anything.

Keep up the good work Willie :D

HERE HERE!

[ayzo]

AWESOME sig, due! I can't stop laughing.

Bat Skeet owns all :cool:

[AL P]

Thank God. At least with her gone we can get the black guy semi-Muslim up against McCain the war hero, put this election to bed and have a reasonable Republican in there.

[Nestromo]

Thank God. At least with her gone we can get the black guy semi-Muslim up against McCain the war hero, put this election to bed and have a reasonable Republican in there.

I don't like either option, but in a lose lose situation I'll take the republican any day.

[White trash wagon]

Thank God. At least with her gone we can get the black guy semi-Muslim up against McCain the war hero, put this election to bed and have a reasonable Republican in there.

McCain's a Republican? :confused:

[AL P]

McCain's a Republican? :confused:

He's the only thing we got! Mitt fucking Romney??? We are going to have this clown as president?? God, please......NO!

[black01gt]

McCain's a Republican? :confused:
He's the "new conservative :D republican". Finish off our economic future wasting it in Iraq for 100 more years and grant 60 million illegals amnesty and welfare. You bet.

[White trash wagon]

He's the only thing we got! Mitt fucking Romney??? We are going to have this clown as president?? God, please......NO!

I thought open borders and uncontrolled government spending were the hallmarks of a Democrat? Oh, nevermind, Bush did that too, and we all know he's a good Republican. :D

[Vertnut]

I thought open borders and uncontrolled government spending were the hallmarks of a Democrat? Oh, nevermind, Bush did that too, and we all know he's a good Republican. :D
The "open borders" were here long before Bush...

[White trash wagon]

The "open borders" were here long before Bush...

I know, but neither he or the then Republican Congress did anything to stop it.

[Vertnut]

I know, but neither he or the then Republican Congress did anything to stop it.
And neither will anyone else.

[AL P]

I thought open borders and uncontrolled government spending were the hallmarks of a Democrat? Oh, nevermind, Bush did that too, and we all know he's a good Republican. :D

Open borders and uncontrolled spending are the hallmark of any politician who is going to get elected. Because both of those things serve the real people in control of this country.

[White trash wagon]

And neither will anyone else.

With the possible exception of Ron Paul (if elected)

[JP135]

Open borders and uncontrolled spending are the hallmark of any politician who is going to get elected. Because both of those things serve the real people in control of this country.

Probably the most correct political statement of the year, right there. I'm just disgusted with all of them.

[FSON]

Ted Kennedy and everyone who has drowned endorse Oblama.

[Mr Majestyk]

Ted Kennedy and everyone who drinks and drowns endorse Oblama.

Fixt

[Paladin]

Unless the Republican nominee implodes, we will have a Republican in the WH for 4 more years. There is no way this country elects a woman or a minority any time soon IMO.

[mardyn]

Here's the deal...

McCain is the best we have to offer? :confused: What a shame... the GOP strategists should be taken out back and shot. :(

Romney? Looks presidential, but looks can be deceiving... but I'm still open to the possibility.

If Hillary gets the nod from the Dems, we've got a slight chance at a GOP win, If it's Obama, stick a fork in us 'cause were done.

I believe Obama is currently unbeatable if he can get the nomination.

Ted Kennedy is still a waste of human flesh under either circumstance.


mardyn :mad:

[FSON]

Here's the deal...

Ted Kennedy is still a waste of human flesh under either circumstance.


mardyn :mad:
Ted Kennedy has Chappaquiddick water on the brain.

[ayzo]

Unless the Republican nominee implodes, we will have a Republican in the WH for 4 more years. There is no way this country elects a woman or a minority any time soon IMO.

I hate to say it but the GOP has no chance this year, even if Clinton gets the nomination and motivates the base. All you really have to do is compare the amount of money that Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are raising and then compare it to the money McCain, Romney, and Giuliani are raising. The republicans can barely keep up and in all the primaries so far democratic turnout has been nearly twice as much as republican turnout. Karl Rove, Frank Luntz, Ann Coulter, Robert Novak, Juan Williams, Fred Barnes and Bill Kristol have all come out and said that this just isn't a year for the GOP to win.

We have a failing public school system, out of control debt, out of control spending, unaffordable healthcare, unfair trade agreements, a bankrupt medicare and social security system, and an economy thats going to be twice as bad in November as it is now. And these aren't the democratic talking points, these are the talking points of Mitt Romney, John McCain, and Rudy Giuliani. Thats not even including a war that 6/10 independents, 3/10 republicans, and 8/10 democrats disapprove of. With the threat of expanding that war into Iran to only further destroy the economy and the currency.

This election isn't going to be about Clinton vs. McCain or Obama vs. Romney this is going to be about Clinton/McCain vs. Bush or Obama/Romney vs. Bush. When your a white male republican its hard to establish yourself as the change agent, which is even being demanded by republican voters and emphasized by the republican candidates.

But in Chinese philosophy there is something called the yin and yang. If it wasn't for Jimmy Carter we wouldn't have had Ronald Reagan, and if it wasn't for Bill Clinton we wouldn't have Newt Gingrich. Maybe the only thing that can wake up the republican party is a democratic presidency, maybe when they realize that they are out of ideas, out of leadership, and out of pulse with the rest of the America they can restore the principles and policies that resonated with the rest of the country. Until then they will be locked out.

[Paladin]

I hate to say it but the GOP has no chance this year, even if Clinton gets the nomination and motivates the base. All you really have to do is compare the amount of money that Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are raising and then compare it to the money McCain, Romney, and Giuliani are raising. The republicans can barely keep up and in all the primaries so far democratic turnout has been nearly twice as much as republican turnout. Karl Rove, Frank Luntz, Ann Coulter, Robert Novak, Juan Williams, Fred Barnes and Bill Kristol have all come out and said that this just isn't a year for the GOP to win.

The Dems have had 2 viable candidates all along and the Republicans had 4-7 up until recently. The money has been split between more candidates for the Republicans, and several have been relative newcomers to the national scene. By your calculations RP will be the Republican candidate because he has more money, and that isn't going to happen just like it is not a sure thing the Dems will win just because they have more money right now. I have not given any donations to a Republican because I am not sure about who I will support. You seem to be really energized by turn outs at the primaries, but please don't confuse the high turn outs with what real voters are doing. The far left is definitely energized and has accounted for the high Dem turnouts you claim have eclipsed the Republican's by 2-1. ( I am assuming your numbers are correct, but it really doesn't matter)

We have a failing public school system, out of control debt, out of control spending, unaffordable healthcare, unfair trade agreements, a bankrupt medicare and social security system, and an economy thats going to be twice as bad in November as it is now. And these aren't the democratic talking points, these are the talking points of Mitt Romney, John McCain, and Rudy Giuliani. Thats not even including a war that 6/10 independents, 3/10 republicans, and 8/10 democrats disapprove of. With the threat of expanding that war into Iran to only further destroy the economy and the currency.

I hope you don't think Bush is to blame for the poor PS's, unaffordable health care, unfair trade agreements, the medicare and SS problems, and the complete collapse of the housing market. These problems have been going on for decades. Only the idiotic extreme left would blame him and hold the Republicans solely responsible. Are you a Bush hater? Are you liberal? Are you a democrat? Have you gotten these ideas from Moveon.org or Bill Maher? They sure sound alot like what they are saying.

This election isn't going to be about Clinton vs. McCain or Obama vs. Romney this is going to be about Clinton/McCain vs. Bush or Obama/Romney vs. Bush. When your a white male republican its hard to establish yourself as the change agent, which is even being demanded by republican voters and emphasized by the republican candidates.

Your opinion and mine differ greatly on this. Only in the extreme Bush hating left is this election about Bush. I don't think he is asking for any votes this time. LOL

But in Chinese philosophy there is something called the yin and yang. If it wasn't for Jimmy Carter we wouldn't have had Ronald Reagan, and if it wasn't for Bill Clinton we wouldn't have Newt Gingrich. Maybe the only thing that can wake up the republican party is a democratic presidency, maybe when they realize that they are out of ideas, out of leadership, and out of pulse with the rest of the America they can restore the principles and policies that resonated with the rest of the country. Until then they will be locked out.

You claim the Republicans are out of touch with America? The Dems want unfettered abortion, amnesty for illegals, higher taxes, gay marriage, immediate pullout from Iraq, they are weak on the War on Terror (sometmes not even acknowledging there is such a thing) and a host of other things that nobody I know supports.

I am a conservative, what are you? Who do you support for President? I will suuport the Republican because there is no viable Democratic candidate IMO.

[Paladin]

Taken from Newsmax, a conservative site.

"Who Will Al Gore Endorse Now That
Teddy Has Spoken?

Sen. Ted Kennedy’s endorsement of Barack Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination should come as no surprise to readers of Newsmax’s Insider Report, which has disclosed Kennedy’s membership in the so-called “Gang of Four” Hillary Clinton haters.

The Four — Kennedy, John Kerry, Howard Dean, and Al Gore — have pledged to stop Hillary from getting the nomination, and each has his own reason for detesting Clinton.

Newsmax has learned from Democratic sources that Gore is said to be waiting until after the primaries on Super Tuesday, Feb. 5 to enter the fray with an endorsement.

The word in political circles is that if Obama appears the winner that day, Gore will endorse him — in hopes of driving the final nail into the coffin of the Hillary Clinton campaign.

As the Insider Report has disclosed on several occasions beginning in June 2005, Kennedy and Gore have been disgusted by Bill and Hillary Clinton’s moderate politics.

Both were disturbed by Hillary’s hawkish stance on the Iraq war. Early on in the 2008 race, Kennedy had even endorsed Kerry for the 2008 nomination.

In his endorsement speech Monday, Kennedy praised Hillary Clinton, but then made veiled comparisons with her and Obama, noting that the Illinois senator opposed the Iraq war from the beginning and that he does not “demonize” his opponents.

Who could Uncle Ted be referring to with those comments?

Former White House hopeful Gore blames his 2000 loss on Hillary, whom he says siphoned off key resources to her Senate race.

Howard Dean blames the Clintons for his 2004 campaign woes. A year earlier, Clinton had launched a behind-the-scenes campaign to pressure fellow Democrats not to support Dean for president.

As the Insider Report disclosed in July 2006, Dean supporters were unhappy with Clinton’s stand on Iraq and her cautious shift to the center. And Sen. Kerry feels Hillary stabbed him in the back, promising to go all out to support his 2004 White House campaign but then doing as little as possible to help him.

Newsmax.com cited Kerry’s membership in the Gang of Four on Jan. 10 after Kerry announced his endorsement of Obama for president. Now Kennedy has joined him.

Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, has not yet endorsed a candidate, but insiders say he is working behind the scenes to promote Obama’s candidacy, in the belief that Hillary is too polarizing to win a general election. "

[jyro]

I know, but neither he or the then Republican Congress did anything to stop it.
100% I think they screwed up badly.

[ayzo]

The Dems have had 2 viable candidates all along and the Republicans had 4-7 up until recently. The money has been split between more candidates for the Republicans, and several have been relative newcomers to the national scene. By your calculations RP will be the Republican candidate because he has more money, and that isn't going to happen just like it is not a sure thing the Dems will win just because they have more money right now. I have not given any donations to a Republican because I am not sure about who I will support. You seem to be really energized by turn outs at the primaries, but please don't confuse the high turn outs with what real voters are doing. The far left is definitely energized and has accounted for the high Dem turnouts you claim have eclipsed the Republican's by 2-1. ( I am assuming your numbers are correct, but it really doesn't matter)



I hope you don't think Bush is to blame for the poor PS's, unaffordable health care, unfair trade agreements, the medicare and SS problems, and the complete collapse of the housing market. These problems have been going on for decades. Only the idiotic extreme left would blame him and hold the Republicans solely responsible. Are you a Bush hater? Are you liberal? Are you a democrat? Have you gotten these ideas from Moveon.org or Bill Maher? They sure sound alot like what they are saying.



Your opinion and mine differ greatly on this. Only in the extreme Bush hating left is this election about Bush. I don't think he is asking for any votes this time. LOL



You claim the Republicans are out of touch with America? The Dems want unfettered abortion, amnesty for illegals, higher taxes, gay marriage, immediate pullout from Iraq, they are weak on the War on Terror (sometmes not even acknowledging there is such a thing) and a host of other things that nobody I know supports.

I am a conservative, what are you? Who do you support for President? I will suuport the Republican because there is no viable Democratic candidate IMO.

90 Notch, before you read the rest of my reply I want to make one thing very clear with you. I am a registered republican, I have always voted republican, and I don't plan on changing my affiliation anytime soon. I don't believe I will be voting for a democrat anytime soon because as a party they don't represent my beliefs about abortion, taxes, health care, education, free markets, capitalism, or gun rights. I'm sure if you went over my previous posts you would come to the conclusion that I agree with 95% of what the republican party stands for. The 5% I don't agree with is the mismanagement of the aggressive foreign policy, the patriot act, the real ID act, and the party's move towards more U.N, NATO, NAFTA, and international government.

But those topics are for another thread, my original response wasn't meant to bitch about republicans or Bush and it definitely wasn't meant to brag about how the democratic party is going to win this year. That isn't what I want to see happen but its something that I know will happen. What you have done is taken my post completely out of context and assumed I was a gay flag burner from San Francisco that was trying to pin all of the nations problems on Bush and the republican party. I know better than that, some of these are problems we have had to deal with for decades now and I know we will still face 20 years from now.

The problem is that your average voter probably doesn't even realize it, they will see a sinking economy, 2 wars with the possibility of a third, expensive health care, a weak dollar, high inflation, and a divided nation. Most of them will immediately point the finger at the Bush administration simply because the democrats say so, they won't bother researching the issues on their own and find out who has the real solutions and I can't really blame them for that because at the moment none of the candidates on either side have any solutions. All they are doing is pointing the finger at the other party and saying that they are responsible and will make the problem worse. In the end, people aren't voting for candidates they are voting against a party.

There used to be a time when the republican party was in touch with the rest of America, back in 94 the republican party went out there and listened to peoples problems and found solutions in the conservative frame of politics. They provided clear and detailed information about their plans without hype or spin and the voters rewarded them for it. But your response is a good example of what is wrong with the republican party today, we spend too much time in defensive mode deflecting blame but not enough time on offense to bring about change. Until the republican party realizes that not everybody who disagrees with the establishment on an issue or two is an America hating liberal they will be doomed to fail.

Today the GOP isn't leading the nation, they aren't out there listening to people and providing solutions they are out there attacking anybody who disagrees with them and focused on only one thing, stopping the democrats. Most probably don't even realize that it is turning into the party of democrats and all you really have to do is look at the current front runners. Romney, Giuliani, and McCain. They have supported abortion, marched for gay marriage, fought for gun control, and even offered amnesty.

The only guy who really had a shot of saving the party was Thompson but now that he's out its either going to be Romney, Giuliani, or McCain. All 3 severely divide the different branches of the republican party and all 3 are nothing more than liberals disguised as republicans. None of them are presenting any solutions but like a bunch of puppets republican voters will still turn out to vote for them simply for the sake of stopping Hillary or Obama. I guess a good analogy would be that its like trying to stop a train by hitting it with another train, it will get the job done but as soon as the dust settles everything in their path is destroyed.

As for who i'm supporting for president, that will depend largely on who gets the nomination for the republican party. If its McCain or Romney i'll just stay home and watch some SNL re-runs, but if its Giuliani then i'll have no choice but to start raising funds for whoever the democratic nominee is. It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for Giuliani and if you research his law firm, his clients, and then think about why Gov. Perry endorsed him you would probably get out of your chair and start knocking on doors for Clinton as well.

But for the primaries, i'll be voting for Paul. And I know you already came to your own conclusion that he isn't a real republican who hates America and he's probably praying for Bin Laden to take over America and all that but he is the only one who is willing to address the economic problems we are facing today and the giant tsunami of hyper-deflated credit that will be hitting us in the coming years. I know he won't win but maybe he'll be able to leverage his delegates to get a position as treasury secratary under who ever gets the nomination.

I hate to be Dr. Doom but the economy is seriously screwed. So far $120 billion of subprime loans have reset and we still have $690 billion to before July of 08 and much more to follow. The US is about to lose its AAA credit rating, the bond insurders are going under, 390 lenders have gone bankrupt, the banks are dependent on middle east investors, our dollar is reaching record lows, and the rest of the world is beginning to reject the USD as the reserve currency and moving to gold, and OPEC is considering pegging the price of oil to the EUR instead of the USD. Things are bad now and they are going to get much worse, this isn't a problem that can be solved with a few rate cuts or tax rebates and its not a problem that we can just ask for the middle east or Europe to bail us out on. They are probably in worse shape than us because they were the ones who were buying up all this debt we created and now they realize that we'll never be able to pay them back.

IMO, it doesn't really matter which party wins the election because as a nation everybody will still be losing for at least another 4 years.

[black01gt]

90 Notch, before you read the rest of my reply I want to make one thing very clear with you.
What you have done is taken my post completely out of context and assumed I was a gay flag burner from San Francisco that was trying to pin all of the nations problems on Bush and the republican party.

He has to keep it simple like that.

[Mustangman_2000]

I talked about this in the thread I created the other day. http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=350209


It's not she may be in trouble, she is in trouble.

I think she is going to get hammered on Super Tuesday.

[Paladin]

He has to keep it simple like that.

Damn dude, I have really gotten into your head, haven't I? :D

[Nestromo]

As a gay flag burner from San Francisco I am offended by this thread.

[Slowhand]

McCain's a Republican? :confused:

Amnesty for all!

Taxes out the ass!

McCain for Democratic Nominee 2008!

...oh wait... :o

[Sgt Beavis]

I would think an endorsment from Ted Kennedy would be the kiss of death. But this county has gotten pretty goofy. :confused:

He's the kiss of death in a general election but in the primaries it helps the candidate a lot...

Guys, don't go discounting Obama. Know your enemy. Yes, he's a liberal. Yes, he's black. But have you ever listened to him? I'm a die hard conservative and I can't help but like him as a person. His speeches are genuine and he comes across as someone that can be reasoned with. This guy is no Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. There is a reason those guys and others in the black caucus were slow to endorse him. Many in the NAACP didn't endorse him until recently when Clinton turned this election into a race issue.

Oh, and Billary IS turning it into a race issue. They want white democrats to see that they are about to choose a black nominee. Bill Clinton even made a direct comparison to Jesse Jackson after they lost South Carolina. They want to show White America that blacks are going to fight to put this guy in office so they had better vote for Hillary...

The main reason I think Obama could win in a general election though is because of the Republican field. This is the weakest bunch of pussies to ever run for office. Not a one of them can hold Ronald Reagans jock strap. Rush Limbaugh has already said he may not support the Republican nominee. Many conservatives like myself aren't going to bother voting for President. However I guarantee you that Obama is going to drive liberals to the polls in droves.

[Mustangman_2000]

The main reason I think Obama could win in a general election though is because of the Republican field. This is the weakest bunch of pussies to ever run for office. Not a one of them can hold Ronald Reagans jock strap. Rush Limbaugh has already said he may not support the Republican nominee. Many conservatives like myself aren't going to bother voting for President. However I guarantee you that Obama is going to drive liberals to the polls in droves.

A Ronald Reagan style Republican would be hard to get elected in 2008. Anyone one his ilk wouldn't capture one minority vote in todays climate. Great President, but his style of conservative would not be embraced in a country that is turning more liberal by the day.

And you choosing not to vote is a lame cop out. Participation in the voting process is important. I'm going to vote for someone that is the lesser of two evils. Sad, but realistic. Not quite sure whom that might be as of right now, but I'm not abrogating one of the most important rights we have because things aren't going my way. I'm not happy with the slate either, but don't be a pussy, cross your arms, and choose not vote.

And your comment about liberals coming out in droves to vote for Obama is a generalization. I'm a Democrat, and I'm not voting for Obama. Most of my friends that are Democrats pretty much echo my sentiments. He is a very smart and reasonable guy. He is an eloquent public speaker, which is a nice change in contrast to President Bush. However, he is a far left liberal Democrat and his voting record reflects just that.

What you really mean is that every non-white individual with a voter registration card will be coming out in droves to vote for Obama. Not just for the satisfaction of putting a fellow minority in the oval office, but to put a leftist liberal in the position to espouse policy that will enable their behavior and attitudes towards entitlement.

I would vote for Obama, that is if he would jump back on the diamond and start walking back towards the center.

[Vertnut]

A Ronald Reagan style Republican would be hard to get elected in 2008. Anyone one his ilk wouldn't capture one minority vote in todays climate. Great President, but his style of conservative would not be embraced in a country that is turning more liberal by the day.

And you choosing not to vote is a lame cop out. Participation in the voting process is important. I'm going to vote for someone that is the lesser of two evils. Sad, but realistic. Not quite sure whom that might be as of right now, but I'm not abrogating one of the most important rights we have because things aren't going my way. I'm not happy with the slate either, but don't be a pussy, cross your arms, and choose not vote.

And your comment about liberals coming out in droves to vote for Obama is a generalization. I'm a Democrat, and I'm not voting for Obama. Most of my friends that are Democrats pretty much echo my sentiments. He is a very smart and reasonable guy. He is an eloquent public speaker, which is a nice change in contrast to President Bush. However, he is a far left liberal Democrat and his voting record reflects just that.

What you really mean is that every non-white individual with a voter registration card will be coming out in droves to vote for Obama. Not just for the satisfaction of putting a fellow minority in the oval office, but to put a leftist liberal in the position to espouse policy that will enable their behavior and attitudes towards entitlement.

I would vote for Obama, that is if he would jump back on the diamond and start walking back towards the center.
So if he's the Democratic nominee, you're not going to vote for him? Why not? You just chastised someone for saying they wouldn't vote at all ("lame cop-out"), so what's the difference? I've voted in every election since 1980, and I may not vote this year. You are right about one thing: the typical American citizen no longer has the balls to vote in another Reagan. You have to remember WHY Reagan got voted in...4 years of Jimmy Carter. Folks were sick and tired, of being sick and tired. The country demanded a radical change from what we had.

[Mr Majestyk]

If John McCain is the Republican nominee, and either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee, I'll vote for John McCain with a clear conscience.

[Mustangman_2000]

So if he's the Democratic nominee, you're not going to vote for him? Why not? You just chastised someone for saying they wouldn't vote at all ("lame cop-out"), so what's the difference? I've voted in every election since 1980, and I may not vote this year. You are right about one thing: the typical American citizen no longer has the balls to vote in another Reagan. You have to remember WHY Reagan got voted in...4 years of Jimmy Carter. Folks were sick and tired, of being sick and tired. The country demanded a radical change from what we had.

I did not say I wasn't going to vote. I just said I wasn't going to vote for Obama.

I never miss an election.

[01WhiteCobra]

It was funny watching Kerry not try to clap last night.

[Paladin]

90 Notch, before you read the rest of my reply I want to make one thing very clear with you. I am a registered republican, I have always voted republican, and I don't plan on changing my affiliation anytime soon. I don't believe I will be voting for a democrat anytime soon because as a party they don't represent my beliefs about abortion, taxes, health care, education, free markets, capitalism, or gun rights. I'm sure if you went over my previous posts you would come to the conclusion that I agree with 95% of what the republican party stands for. The 5% I don't agree with is the mismanagement of the aggressive foreign policy, the patriot act, the real ID act, and the party's move towards more U.N, NATO, NAFTA, and international government.

I guess your dissatisfaction with that 5% is pretty strong, because I misread you.

But those topics are for another thread, my original response wasn't meant to bitch about republicans or Bush and it definitely wasn't meant to brag about how the democratic party is going to win this year. That isn't what I want to see happen but its something that I know will happen. What you have done is taken my post completely out of context and assumed I was a gay flag burner from San Francisco that was trying to pin all of the nations problems on Bush and the republican party. I know better than that, some of these are problems we have had to deal with for decades now and I know we will still face 20 years from now.

I didn't think you were a flag burner from SF. :p

Yeah, I thought you were putting the blame solely on Bush and the Republicans like the average sheeple type person. I was obvioulsy wrong.

The problem is that your average voter probably doesn't even realize it, they will see a sinking economy, 2 wars with the possibility of a third, expensive health care, a weak dollar, high inflation, and a divided nation. Most of them will immediately point the finger at the Bush administration simply because the democrats say so, they won't bother researching the issues on their own and find out who has the real solutions and I can't really blame them for that because at the moment none of the candidates on either side have any solutions. All they are doing is pointing the finger at the other party and saying that they are responsible and will make the problem worse. In the end, people aren't voting for candidates they are voting against a party.

I can agree with the above.

There used to be a time when the republican party was in touch with the rest of America, back in 94 the republican party went out there and listened to peoples problems and found solutions in the conservative frame of politics. They provided clear and detailed information about their plans without hype or spin and the voters rewarded them for it. But your response is a good example of what is wrong with the republican party today, we spend too much time in defensive mode deflecting blame but not enough time on offense to bring about change. Until the republican party realizes that not everybody who disagrees with the establishment on an issue or two is an America hating liberal they will be doomed to fail.

While I agree we are not on track at the moment in the republican party, I don't we are as off track as you do, but I sure won't blame you for feeling this way.

Today the GOP isn't leading the nation, they aren't out there listening to people and providing solutions they are out there attacking anybody who disagrees with them and focused on only one thing, stopping the democrats. Most probably don't even realize that it is turning into the party of democrats and all you really have to do is look at the current front runners. Romney, Giuliani, and McCain. They have supported abortion, marched for gay marriage, fought for gun control, and even offered amnesty.

I know there isn't a clear leader and conservative in the current field of Republicans since Thompson left, but I still can't bring myslef to vote for any of the current Dem candidates. It may take the beating of Dem controlled WH and Congress to have a true conservative emerge in 4 years.

The only guy who really had a shot of saving the party was Thompson but now that he's out its either going to be Romney, Giuliani, or McCain. All 3 severely divide the different branches of the republican party and all 3 are nothing more than liberals disguised as republicans. None of them are presenting any solutions but like a bunch of puppets republican voters will still turn out to vote for them simply for the sake of stopping Hillary or Obama. I guess a good analogy would be that its like trying to stop a train by hitting it with another train, it will get the job done but as soon as the dust settles everything in their path is destroyed.

I disgaree with you that people who are voting against the Dems are completely wrong, but once again, I won't say your opinion is without merit. I guess if there was a Dem who I respected or trusted running I might feel differently, but that isn't the case in this election.

As for who i'm supporting for president, that will depend largely on who gets the nomination for the republican party. If its McCain or Romney i'll just stay home and watch some SNL re-runs, but if its Giuliani then i'll have no choice but to start raising funds for whoever the democratic nominee is. It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for Giuliani and if you research his law firm, his clients, and then think about why Gov. Perry endorsed him you would probably get out of your chair and start knocking on doors for Clinton as well.

I think it is a mistake to not vote, since your lack of voting will be taken by liberals as a vote of confidence. I refuse to do that.

But for the primaries, i'll be voting for Paul. And I know you already came to your own conclusion that he isn't a real republican who hates America and he's probably praying for Bin Laden to take over America and all that but he is the only one who is willing to address the economic problems we are facing today and the giant tsunami of hyper-deflated credit that will be hitting us in the coming years. I know he won't win but maybe he'll be able to leverage his delegates to get a position as treasury secratary under who ever gets the nomination..

I do not thinkl RP hates America. I think he is a patriot who firmluy believes what he is saying, I just disagree completely with his approach to foreign policy and the poor choice of immediate and complete withdrawal from Iraq. I think Iraq is vital in the war on terror and pulling out without stabilization would send a message that we are weak and cannot do what it takes to kill those who kill us.

I hate to be Dr. Doom but the economy is seriously screwed. So far $120 billion of subprime loans have reset and we still have $690 billion to before July of 08 and much more to follow. The US is about to lose its AAA credit rating, the bond insurders are going under, 390 lenders have gone bankrupt, the banks are dependent on middle east investors, our dollar is reaching record lows, and the rest of the world is beginning to reject the USD as the reserve currency and moving to gold, and OPEC is considering pegging the price of oil to the EUR instead of the USD. Things are bad now and they are going to get much worse, this isn't a problem that can be solved with a few rate cuts or tax rebates and its not a problem that we can just ask for the middle east or Europe to bail us out on. They are probably in worse shape than us because they were the ones who were buying up all this debt we created and now they realize that we'll never be able to pay them back.

IMO, it doesn't really matter which party wins the election because as a nation everybody will still be losing for at least another 4 years.

It has taken about 15-20 years (maybe longer) to get into this mess and it will take a while to get out of it. Difficult times are ahead, that is for sure.

[Paladin]

I did not say I wasn't going to vote. I just said I wasn't going to vote for Obama.

I never miss an election.

Does that mean you will vote for the Republican if he gets the nomination?

[Paladin]

If John McCain is the Republican nominee, and either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee, I'll vote for John McCain with a clear conscience.

I will also. I want Romney more than McCain, but both are infinitely better than Hillary or Obama.

[Vertnut]

Does that mean you will vote for the Republican if he gets the nomination?
That's my point. What's he saying? I'll be damned if I'll vote for someone I don't believe in, just to say I "voted".

[Mustangman_2000]

That's my point. What's he saying? I'll be damned if I'll vote for someone I don't believe in, just to say I "voted".

This is probably the 3rd time I've said this in the past month. I'm very disappointed in the leading Democratic candidates, but this does not mean I'm going to abstain from voting.

When the time comes I will vote for whomever is the closest to the center. If that happens to be a Republican, then so be it.

And I hate to be the one to break this to you, but I'm not the only one that finds themselves in this position. The Republicans have gone soft and abandoned traditional conservative values and the Democrats are moving further to left everyday.

This is a difficult election for most everybody I know. There is no ideal candidate the represents either party.

However, I am still going to vote. Choosing not to vote because you don't completely agree with a candidate is being remiss in more ways than I care to discuss.

I think it's funny that I'm being criticize for voting for a less than ideal candidate, but people whom are saying they won't vote this time around is ok in some way? Very odd.

Only a very small minded individual doesn't recognize the importance of voting. Laziness or indifference is not an adequate excuse to not participate in the voting process. Voting is a way to influence your government, even if it's in a small way. Local elections are greatly affected by a small portion of votes. It's all very important.

[Vertnut]

This is probably the 3rd time I've said this in the past month. I'm very disappointed in the leading Democratic candidates, but this does not mean I'm going to abstain from voting.

When the time comes I will vote for whomever is the closest to the center. If that happens to be a Republican, then so be it.

And I hate to be the one to break this to you, but I'm not the only one that finds themselves in this position. The Republicans have gone soft and abandoned traditional conservative values and the Democrats are moving further to left everyday.

This is a difficult election for most everybody I know. There is no ideal candidate the represents either party.

However, I am still going to vote. Choosing not to vote because you don't completely agree with a candidate is being remiss in more ways than I care to discuss.

I think it's funny that I'm being criticize for voting for a less than ideal candidate, but people whom are saying they won't vote this time around is ok in some way? Very odd.

Only a very small minded individual doesn't recognize the importance of voting. Laziness or indifference is not an adequate excuse to not participate in the voting process. Voting is a way to influence your government, even if it's in a small way. Local elections are greatly affected by a small portion of votes. It's all very important.
I know and understand the importance of voting, and you're still ducking me. If Obama is the Democratic candidate, and Romney is the Republican candidate, how are you NOT going to vote for Obama? :cool:

[01WhiteCobra]

Local elections are greatly affected by a small portion of votes. It's all very important.

x many many expotentials.

Local elections are where they are all at.

[Blown03_GT]

I just refuse to go to the poles and chose the lesser of two evils. I'll wait until there is someone actually worth voting for before I go cast a vote.

Flame on!

[Vertnut]

I just refuse to go to the poles and chose the lesser of two evils. I'll wait until there is someone actually worth voting for before I go cast a vote.

Flame on!
No flame here. For the first time in almost 30 years, I may not vote.

[black01gt]

Damn dude, I have really gotten into your head, haven't I? :D
No. Why do you ask "Two Dogs Fucking"?

[Paladin]

That's my point. What's he saying? I'll be damned if I'll vote for someone I don't believe in, just to say I "voted".


Every Republican who doesn't vote this year is voting for a Dem in absentia. You just wait and see if the lefty extreme nuts show up in force for whoever the Dems nominate and the conservative Republicans decide to sit out in force. They will claim victory and talk about how many votes they got and how few the Republican got, and claim they got a huge percentage of the conseervative vote. They will say their message, the one you probably despise, is resonating with both parties. It will be ugly IMO.

Yeah, kill me for voting against Hillary or Obama as much as I am voting for McCain. I do wish Thompson or some other really conservative candidate would get the Republican nomination, but that isn't gonna happen I am afraid.

I am just glad both parties have finally gotten down to 2 viable candidates and this thing is winding down. I am also glad we have polar opposite candidates on both sides, especially on the War on Terror.

[Paladin]

No. Why do you ask "Two Dogs Fucking"?

LOL, pretty lame dude. As long as you don't wake up at night yelling my screen name. //shudders// :D

[Paladin]

This is probably the 3rd time I've said this in the past month. I'm very disappointed in the leading Democratic candidates, but this does not mean I'm going to abstain from voting.

When the time comes I will vote for whomever is the closest to the center. If that happens to be a Republican, then so be it.

And I hate to be the one to break this to you, but I'm not the only one that finds themselves in this position. The Republicans have gone soft and abandoned traditional conservative values and the Democrats are moving further to left everyday.

This is a difficult election for most everybody I know. There is no ideal candidate the represents either party.

However, I am still going to vote. Choosing not to vote because you don't completely agree with a candidate is being remiss in more ways than I care to discuss.

I think it's funny that I'm being criticize for voting for a less than ideal candidate, but people whom are saying they won't vote this time around is ok in some way? Very odd.

Only a very small minded individual doesn't recognize the importance of voting. Laziness or indifference is not an adequate excuse to not participate in the voting process. Voting is a way to influence your government, even if it's in a small way. Local elections are greatly affected by a small portion of votes. It's all very important.

I agree that the Dems have gone extreme left of center for the most part, especially the 2 candidates left. I also think the Republican are very close to true center, especially McCain. I hope you see it and vote for the moderate like you claim is your choice.

[black01gt]

LOL, pretty lame dude. As long as you don't wake up at night yelling my screen name. //shudders// :D
Not if you've heard the joke.

You're still a legend in your own mind.

[ayzo]

I'm thinking Obama gets the nomination, he has a lot of support from senior senators and I don't think the "red" districts which have more moderate democrats will be voting for Clinton. Of course its all about the delegates so who knows :confused:

http://www.azconservative.org/BushCountry04Map.jpg

[Paladin]

Not if you've heard the joke.

You're still a legend in your own mind.

I laugh at the biggest joke around...








































YOU! :D

[White trash wagon]

Part II Even the Hillary camp now says unless she takes both Texas & Ohio she's finished. Hillary will probably take Ohio, but her chances in Texas aren't good, IMO.

In the surface this should make Republicans feel good, but in reality it should scare the the hell out of them.

Scott

[Paladin]

I think the VP choices are going to be a major part of the reason someone gets elected this time around. VP should not be that important, but I think it will be.

[White trash wagon]

I think the VP choices are going to be a major part of the reason someone gets elected this time around. VP should not be that important, but I think it will be.

Agreed