Are you a Democrat or a Republican?

[redheadintx]

Well, which one is it? Are you a Democrat or a Republican?

[David]

I float around.

Both parties are full of shitheads and every politician is a fucking cock sucking corrupt dickbag.

[Gaber]

I could care less. Just get someone in there to fix this fuckin' place.

[kc50lx]

I would consider myself a conservative and tend to side with Republicans as far as what I believe in. Although currently I feel that there isn't necessarily a true Conservative running for President.

[IHaveAMustang]

Both parties are full of shitheads and every politician is a fucking cock sucking corrupt dickbag.


Yep, I don't trust anyone. They will say anything to get into bed with the American people and then once they pump n' dump us, they do whatever they want.

I don't vote so I know when a sucky pres *cough* Bush *cough* comes around I had no part in putting him in the WH

[David]

I don't vote so I know when a sucky pres *cough* Bush *cough* comes around I had no part in putting him in the WH
But then you're saying you had no part in preventing him from possibly getting in.

If you dont vote, you can't complain.

[Pro88LX]

private poll?!?!? fuckin weak.................republican here btw

[redheadintx]

private poll?!?!? fuckin weak.................republican here btw

Some people are weird about that kind of thing... democrat here.

[FSON]

Dems are the weak link or just plain missing... one, the other, or maybe both.

[Mr Majestyk]

Republican

[Denny]

Dems are the weak link or just plain missing... one, the other, or maybe both.
I really can't bash the Democratic Party, as a whole. Originally, the party had good intensions, but today it's just a front to create Big Government... pseudo-commies, if you will. The founding fathers of that party are turning over in their graves. :(

I guess if you look at issue by issue and tally up all the "yays" and "nays," you could put me with the Republicans.






But all you bitches can just call me "The Gun-Totin' Christian Conservative"

God
Country
Family

I'm bringing sexy back!!!!!!!!!!

[01WhiteCobra]

Dems are the weak link or just plain missing... one, the other, or maybe both.

I'm starting to think the Republicans are there with them.

[BP]

I'm voting for who ever gets me my $600 rebate check.

[Denny]

I'm voting for who ever gets me my $600 rebate check.
If it was just up to the Republicans, it would have been $800... just sayin'.

[BlackSnake1996]

If it was just up to the Republicans, it would have been $800... just sayin'.
:D

[Pro88LX]

Some people are weird about that kind of thing... democrat here.

who you hoping for in 2008?

[BP]

If it was just up to the Republicans, it would have been $800... just sayin'.

True, I think I'll write in Bush again.

[redheadintx]

who you hoping for in 2008?

I am still undecided.

[Paladin]

I was a conservative (pro-life, anti-gay marriage, traditional Christian moral values, pro-gun ownership, pro-death penalty, etc) and realized I was voting for people who did not hold my same values and views when I was voting for Democrats.

I now have very little choice but to vote Republican because no Democrat holds my traditional and moral values anymore, they just seem to cater to the moveon.org and ACLU crowd. Very sad for the Dems IMO.

I honestly believe many of the people who vote for Dems haven't actually gone down the issues of the day and considered that they are voting for people who don't agree with them. Just my opinion, but very few liberals have actually proven me wrong, most realize it when it is pointed out though.

[wesman]

I waver with the issue....same with religion. I see some good/bad in all of them so I don't really make an overall affiliation.

--wes

[SlowLX]

libertarian here

[sloestang]

I float around.

Both parties are full of shitheads and every politician is a fucking cock sucking corrupt dickbag.
x2

[White trash wagon]

I really can't bash the Democratic Party, as a whole. Originally, the party had good intensions, but today it's just a front to create Big Government...

I'm a Libertarian, I think both "mainstream" parties are utterly corrupt. But bear in mind, Denny, our government has grown to it's biggest size EVER, under George W Bush. But then again , Bush is not a conservative.

Scott

[Sean88gt]

Way to shoehorn everyone Red!

I'm conservative, want gov't totally uninvolved (other than military), low taxes, less regulations for business and promotion of ideas for personal success.

Basically, I believe in people, not government.

[Sean88gt]

I am still undecided.

Want a party change? Open your own business.

Just curious, what makes you consider yourself as a Democrat?

[redheadintx]

Just curious, what makes you consider yourself as a Democrat?

I have a democratic stance on 8 of of these 11 topics ... if that gives you an idea.



This article breaks down the traditional differences between Democrats and Republicans on main issues. The two most prominent parties in the United States are the Republican and Democrat parties. Republicans are considered conservative while Democrats are labeled as liberal. As you read this article, the current party platforms will reveal the current positions that each party traditionally holds.

With accusations flying and the barb trading between each party, it can be hard to tell where they stand on certain issues. The most “controversial” issues are listed below with each party's view.

Abortion
Democrats: It's the woman's right to choose and should therefore be legal

Republicans: It should not be legal and the government should restrict it as such.

Gun Control Laws
Democrats: More gun control laws are needed to address a seemly growing problem with guns

Republicans: Oppose more gun control laws, citing that it's not what the Constitution calls for.

Discrimination
Democrats: It's up to the government to step in and provide a “net” to victims of this practice

Republicans: Strong anti-discrimination laws are unnecessary. People have morals, as they say, and should be given the benefit of the doubt

Military
Democrats: Prefers a decrease military spending. This party also likes to utilize NATO and the UN; never wanting to truly go in “alone” on world issues.

Republicans: They are known for increasing military spending. They also tend to want to stand alone when dealing with NATO and the United Nations.

Gay Rights
Democrats: Usually for gays rights and believe it's apart of their civil rights to be with whom ever they choose.

Republicans: Tend to hold the view that marriage should be between people of the opposite sex, not the same.

Minimum Wage
Democrats: Favor the workers and always seem to support minimum wage hikes.

Republicans: Don't normally favor minimum wage increases because they say is hurts businesses.

Death Penalty
Democrats: Does not agree with taking someone's life as a means of discipline.

Republicans: The death penalty is necessary to curb violent crimes.

Prayer in schools
Democrats: There should be a separation between church and state

Republicans: It's apart of our nation's culture to place prayer in school and keep it that way.

Flag Burning:
Democrats: Flag burning is acceptable because it falls under freedom of speech

Republicans: Flag burning is unacceptable and is not what the constitution intended.

Natural Environment:
Democrats: The environment needs to be protected and it's the government's job to enforce laws against harming the environment.

Republicans: Have some environment laws but don't make them too strong, could do more harm than good.

Taxes:
Democrats: The people with the most money should pay the most taxes, tax increases are mostly good.

Republicans: the entire economy can benefit if taxes remain relatively low, tax cuts are the way to go.

It must be said that these are the positions each party holds traditionally. Each candidate can hold to these views point strictly or they can mix it up a bit. It's not uncommon to find a “liberal republican” or a “conservative democrat”. When it's all said and done, it really depends on the person. Please note that most democrats and republicans differ on the main issues as listed above.

[Fordboy91]

who you hoping for in 2008?



Chuck Norris

[Slowhand]

associating yourself with one and only one political party is a poor move, and often times the sign of an uneducated voter.

i'm fiscally conservative, first and foremost. Socially, I'm fairly moderate on most issues, aside from gun control (very, very pro-gun). I tend to lean left on the issue of cannabis, although I see an economic opportunity there as well, so I just slide right in the middle there.

No matter, in this year's election, a vote for the Democratic nominee is a vote for socialism, something the US is not, so I strongly urge you to rethink your stance as a "democrat". It also sounds like you had a hand in putting the Democratically controlled congress in place (11% approval rating FTW!), so I again, urge you to keep an open mind.

[Slowhand]

Chuck Norris

So...Huckabee?

[Fordboy91]

I have voted Republican due to issues. As far as things like One world govt. and military like Un or Nato. Screw anything that compromises our sovreignty. Utilizing Nato and UN instead of standing firm with our policies is typical democratic let's go with the flow attitude. Ride the fence and wait til we see what the majority wants and keep ourselves in office.

I would vote for someone who is against my values if I knew for a fact where he stood rather than a person who rides the fence, and changes what he says according to what group he is talking to.

[Fordboy91]

So...Huckabee?


No Norris should step aside from Huckabee and run himself. Then Norris, Segal, Stallone And Schwartzanager and Tom Berringer will get in a Apache and go find Osama themselves and make a movie about it!

[BreedLove]

I will be voting for Obama in 08 so I guess i'm a democrat this year.

[Slowhand]

I will be voting for Obama in 08 so I guess i'm a democrat this year.

And if Hillary gets the nomination?

Oh wait, you're still voting for the same Socialist nutjob either way :rolleyes: Damn, Obama is good at hiding his own political agenda.

[BreedLove]

And if Hillary gets the nomination?

Oh wait, you're still voting for the same Socialist nutjob either way :rolleyes: Damn, Obama is good at hiding his own political agenda.
If hiliary gets nomination i will definitely not vote for her, she is a pig. After reading Obama's book and really looking into his campaign and really like what he could do. This country needs a new face and don't believe a republican is the right person for the job at this point and time. So go pull for old Ron Paul and keep your mouth shut cause all you're doing is repeating the same old bullshit that gets said day in and day out.

[Slowhand]

If hiliary gets nomination i will definitely not vote for her, she is a pig. After reading Obama's book and really looking into his campaign and really like what he could do. This country needs a new face and don't believe a republican is the right person for the job at this point and time. So go pull for old Ron Paul and keep your mouth shut cause all you're doing is repeating the same old bullshit that gets said day in and day out.

I'm sure you know a lot more about Obama and his campaign than I do, so if you could show me some points where his views differ significantly with Clinton's, I'd be more than happy to listen and drop my two headed monster rhetoric. That said, most of what I have seen is the same idea, presented two different ways.

[BreedLove]

The war for one, issues with the environment, transportation issues and it's just the way Obama handles and carries himself. Granted yes they do have same views they are from the same party there are some republicans that have the same views as them

[Slowhand]

Here's my fear with Obama:

On Healthcare:
My plan begins by covering every American.

On Fiscal Policy:
The cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the federal budget.

On the Economy:
He will increase investments in infrastructure, energy independence, education, and research and development

Now, all of these are great ideas...but where the fuck does he plan to get the money for all of this? Either the total at the bottom of our tax receipts will make us shit a brick or the national debt increases. On top of that, he wants to increase investments (infrastructure is a much needed investment, I'll give him that) in several other areas. How does it work?

Now, I need to retract my previous statment. They are not the same candidate; Obama is much more rational and actually has a plan for what he wants to do; Unfortunately, he's like the kid running for class president: he's promising things he can't follow through on, simply because he's promising too much. One can only hope that the things he does follow through on aren't the wrong things.

In short, for the next 4 years, the stabilizing/growing the economy needs to be the focus of the President, no matter who is elected. And quite frankly, I'll trust a conservative with my money long before I'll trust even a moderate liberal.

[Slowhand]

The war for one, issues with the environment, transportation issues and it's just the way Obama handles and carries himself. Granted yes they do have same views they are from the same party there are some republicans that have the same views as them

I will give you that; Obama carries himself 10x better than Hillary, and most other candidates in this race, Republican or Democrat. And yes, there are republicans that have the same views, and those are also Republicans that I won't be voting for if they get the nomination; a write in for Ross Perot will be my vote at that point.

[jyro]

The more I look at the national debt issue, the more I wonder if the country can afford to be Republican. Every Republican president has grossly increased the national debt, every Democrat has cut the military and left it to the next president to do the military spending.
With no true Republican running is this election, I have decided to vote for Ron Paul. I trust him more than any of the others. All the others have changed positions many times in the last 10 years. Ron Paul has steadily been the same.

Ron Paul on the federal reserve--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q&feature=related

Ron Paul on taxes ---- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8&feature=related

Ron Paul on money, taxes and spending---- - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnwDhIfceqM&feature=related

[BreedLove]

For any President to stabalize the economy in the next 4 years it will be an astronomical accomplishment. It is clearly in recession. Big business getting all there money and tax cuts yada yada yada just is not going to work. Maybe more government needs to be in place right now. Normally I would not be one to say that but at this point and time in America it might be what's needed.

[Slowhand]

The more I look at the national debt issue, the more I wonder if the country can afford to be Republican. Every Republican president has grossly increased the national debt, every Democrat has cut the military and left it to the next president to do the military spending.
With no true Republican running is this election, I have decided to vote for Ron Paul. I trust him more than any of the others. All the others have changed positions many times in the last 10 years. Ron Paul has steadily been the same.

Ron Paul on the federal reserve--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q&feature=related

Ron Paul on taxes ---- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8&feature=related

Ron Paul on money, taxes and spending---- - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnwDhIfceqM&feature=related

Ronald Reagan increased the National Debt in the name of reviving a sliding economy, Clinton was simply rewarded with inheriting office at the right time to see the effects of Reagan's administration.

Quite frankly, we need a Ronald Reagan this election that isn't afraid to look bad in the public eye in order to do what needs to be done. But I can tell you right now, that if you're looking to save the economy, no dem is going to do any better than the republicans on the ticket.

That said, Dr. Paul has some great ideas, but he has two problems 1. he has some ideas that are just too far out there (and sometimes wrong) but more importantly, 2. his message goes over the head of the American public. Fortunately, as President, he wouldn't hold enough power to put some of his cooky theories into practice and I think would work out well as President. Unfortunately, his platform turns too many voters for us to see.

[Slowhand]

For any President to stabalize the economy in the next 4 years it will be an astronomical accomplishment. It is clearly in recession. Big business getting all there money and tax cuts yada yada yada just is not going to work. Maybe more government needs to be in place right now. Normally I would not be one to say that but at this point and time in America it might be what's needed.

More government is certainly NOT the answer. If you want to talk about increasing the national debt, 'increasing government' is near the top of the ways to do that, just under 'massive war'.

Not to mention that more government would most likely mean more restrictions on corporations and that means that prices go up, and with rising inflation, that could prove devestating for the economy.

And we must not forget that, left a lone, a capitalist economy will fix itself. Capitalism is an economic system of extreme fluctuation. Hell, even on Tuesday, there are some average Joes with fat pockets right now because of thrifty investment. Capitalism=Cyclicality and Cyclicality requires patience.

The only time that the government helped the economy by being bigger was during the war time economy of WWII. Outside of that, the government's "invisible" hand hasn't proved to be much help.

[black01gt]

The more I look at the national debt issue, the more I wonder if the country can afford to be Republican. Every Republican president has grossly increased the national debt, every Democrat has cut the military and left it to the next president to do the military spending.
With no true Republican running is this election, I have decided to vote for Ron Paul. I trust him more than any of the others. All the others have changed positions many times in the last 10 years. Ron Paul has steadily been the same.

Ron Paul on the federal reserve--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q&feature=related

Ron Paul on taxes ---- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8&feature=related

Ron Paul on money, taxes and spending---- - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnwDhIfceqM&feature=related
Another well educated voter.
Oh..and RON PAUL for me. I could give a rats ass about dems or repubs currently. They're nothing but mouth peices that have us in a political civil war when we least need to be divided as a country.

[Slowhand]

Another well educated voter.
Oh..and RON PAUL for me. I could give a rats ass about dems or repubs currently. They're nothing but mouth peices that have us in a political civil war when we least need to be divided as a country.

I agree with you, but at the same time, we're also headed towards a completely individualistic society where people only what what's best for them personally (naturally), and political parties keep that from happening. yes, you have to pick and choose your battles and you don't always get what you want, but a greater majority of people will. A republic will always be better than a democracy because a Republic will at least have some sense of coherence. Parties are all that seperate us from being a Democracy at this point, which would be quite unfortunate.

[trey85stang]

they are both the same.. so Im neither.

[black01gt]

associating yourself with one and only one political party is a poor move, and often times the sign of an uneducated voter.


Yep. Being more concerned about your political party than your country is not the definition of patriotism.

[black01gt]

Maybe more government needs to be in place right now. Normally I would not be one to say that but at this point and time in America it might be what's needed.
And we can call it..."Socialism".
I fear that many signs, including the inability to even decide on a leading candidate points to that direction.

When the number of people that want to be taken care of exceeds the number of people that want to take care of themselves.... "McGovernment is here for you but you have to do what we say."

[Paladin]

I have a democratic stance on 8 of of these 11 topics ... if that gives you an idea.

Where did you get that little comparison? It sure is left leaning in the wording.

One example:

"Gay Rights
Democrats: Usually for gays rights and believe it's apart of their civil rights to be with whom ever they choose.

Republicans: Tend to hold the view that marriage should be between people of the opposite sex, not the same."

The Dem view is about "rights" and "being with whoever they choose" and the Republican view is about marriage? It gives the impression to the sheeple out there that republicans are agaisnt gay rights and don't want them to be with whoever they choose, which is wrong. Why not be consistent and stay with rights or marriage. I have no problem with gay rights, but marriage is no right. I bet it is a very left leaning source.

The correct response should be:

"Gay Rights
Democrats: Usually for gays rights and believe it's apart of their civil rights to be with whom ever they choose.

Republicans: Also for gay rights and they should be with whoever they choose.

Gay Marriage
Dems: For it

Republicans: Against it"

[Paladin]

The more I look at the national debt issue, the more I wonder if the country can afford to be Republican. Every Republican president has grossly increased the national debt, every Democrat has cut the military and left it to the next president to do the military spending.
With no true Republican running is this election, I have decided to vote for Ron Paul. I trust him more than any of the others. All the others have changed positions many times in the last 10 years. Ron Paul has steadily been the same.

Ron Paul on the federal reserve--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q&feature=related

Ron Paul on taxes ---- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8&feature=related

Ron Paul on money, taxes and spending---- - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnwDhIfceqM&feature=related

I must say I am very surprised at your choice. I have seen your posts and you are one of the few on this site who makes me think and helped me see issues in different ways.

How do you get away from his plans for immediate withdrawal from Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other country that did not directly attack us?

[BHAM]

Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul

100% Ron Paul!

[jakesford]

I'm a Libertarian, I think both "mainstream" parties are utterly corrupt. But bear in mind, Denny, our government has grown to it's biggest size EVER, under George W Bush. But then again , Bush is not a conservative.

Scott

Ditto... One of the things I can't stand about bush

associating yourself with one and only one political party is a poor move, and often times the sign of an uneducated voter.


and ditto.

The traditional lines of democrat and republican are blurring more and more. Out of the current front runners I'm personally worried about the next 4 years.

Honestly as much as people/media like to say it, the president has little impact on the over all economy (there are a few exceptions to this last statement)... Its like when the media talks about the US having a trade deficit, its really not that bad of a deal, but they make it sound like the end of the world :p I'm worried that this latest round of interest rate cuts is going to end up hurting us in the long run... Its a nice band-aid for now, but people are idiots with their money :(

[Slowhand]

The traditional lines of democrat and republican are blurring more and more. Out of the current front runners I'm personally worried about the next 4 years.

Honestly as much as people/media like to say it, the president has little impact on the over all economy (there are a few exceptions to this last statement)... Its like when the media talks about the US having a trade deficit, its really not that bad of a deal, but they make it sound like the end of the world :p I'm worried that this latest round of interest rate cuts is going to end up hurting us in the long run... Its a nice band-aid for now, but people are idiots with their money :(


Well put.

[Sean88gt]

I have a democratic stance on 8 of of these 11 topics ... if that gives you an idea.

Where did you find that at? I can dispute a number of those as inaccurate.

Abortion
Democrats: It's the woman's right to choose and should therefore be legal

Republicans: It should not be legal and the government should restrict it as such.
Republicans believe it is a state's rights issue to be decided on a lower level

Gun Control Laws
Democrats: More gun control laws are needed to address a seemly growing problem with guns

Republicans: Oppose more gun control laws, citing that it's not what the Constitution calls for.
What gun problem? Perhaps it is more of a society problem (if there is a problem to begin with). Places with increased gun ownership have a decreased crime rate. It also has everything to do with trust. The democrats do not trust us.

Discrimination
Democrats: It's up to the government to step in and provide a “net” to victims of this practice

Republicans: Strong anti-discrimination laws are unnecessary. People have morals, as they say, and should be given the benefit of the doubt
I think that is severely generalizing the issue. It has nothing to do with morals. What it does have to do with is if I am hiring for a position and racial quotas have not been met, I may have to pass over a stronger candidate to get a melanin filled candidate. Also, if a white guy gets into a fight with a minority and says anything race related his jail time goes way up and this isn't the case when flipped around

Military
Democrats: Prefers a decrease military spending. This party also likes to utilize NATO and the UN; never wanting to truly go in “alone” on world issues.
Foolish move. We fund the UN and they still manage to be anti-US. Also, see their gun policy.
Republicans: They are known for increasing military spending. They also tend to want to stand alone when dealing with NATO and the United Nations.
As we should. The UN and NATO don't have the US' best interest at hand. They have their agenda and expect us to follow (not just militarily). I heard something today, and I can't remember who said it or the exact verbage, but basically a strong military is absolutely required because human nature is still to rule by extreme violence. At this point, either we are number 1 or we are done

Gay Rights
Democrats: Usually for gays rights and believe it's apart of their civil rights to be with whom ever they choose.

Republicans: Tend to hold the view that marriage should be between people of the opposite sex, not the same.
I feel that marriage should be between a man and a woman. I also don't give a damn what anyone else does in their own life, I just don't want to be subject to or have my kids subject to this.

Minimum Wage
Democrats: Favor the workers and always seem to support minimum wage hikes.
Short sided. As an employeer, I don't have any employees making minimum wage, but a wage increase forces me to take them all up to maintain cost of living increases which forces me to raise prices, meaning my customers pay more, thus having to charge more. It is a vicious cycle. Plus, people making minimum wage generally make it for a reason, they aren't worth anymore or providing value to the company enough to grow their income.
Republicans: Don't normally favor minimum wage increases because they say is hurts businesses.
It kills businesses. Based on the min. wage hikes and keeping my employees above this my costs go up by over $150,000 a year in base cost (not including increased taxes) and I don't see a bit of jump in production or productivity. Plus, at current labor dollars, that would allow me to employee SIX more individuals. And I'm forced to drive my prices up. If I don't raise their pay accordingly it's like slapping them because the gov't wanted to help. It takes money out of growth and expansion and much needed capital to pay for new equipment. Plus it creates a vicious cycle of inflation. I hate to use the arguement because it is kind of hacky, but how many jobs have people on minumum wage provided?
Entrepreneurs and their small enterprises are responsible for almost all the economic growth in the United States.
Ronald Reagan

Death Penalty
Democrats: Does not agree with taking someone's life as a means of discipline.

Republicans: The death penalty is necessary to curb violent crimes.
It can be argued either way, but I say fry more of them to empty out the jails!:D I think it is not used in enough cases, such as rape, anything sexual with a child and minimum wage increases.

Prayer in schools
Democrats: There should be a separation between church and state
The democrats have lost focus of what this country was founded on. The separation of church and state was put in place to keep the state from messing with the church, not excluding the church at every avenue. I remember when I was playing ball in highschool that we prayed before every game. Now we would be crucified.
Republicans: It's apart of our nation's culture to place prayer in school and keep it that way.
Once again, a generallization. It is considered to be an issue that the federal government does not belong in, and it doesn't. If you don't like, don't participate. I don't, outside of sports, ever remember praying in school. We said the Pledge and that was it.

Flag Burning:
Democrats: Flag burning is acceptable because it falls under freedom of speech

Republicans: Flag burning is unacceptable and is not what the constitution intended.
Again, not accurate. I detest anyone that desacrates our flag. The fact that are able to do it should be enough to create some respect for this country and a desire to not do it. Try burning a flag in some savage country and watch them feed your heart to your family.

Natural Environment:
Democrats: The environment needs to be protected and it's the government's job to enforce laws against harming the environment.

Republicans: Have some environment laws but don't make them too strong, could do more harm than good.
Look at the kyoto treaty, it would take the US economy and thrust it underground. We would be crippled to the point we would become a third world country. But that is the liberal mindset - No one should be better, we should all be the same. I also hold the belief that we are all insignificant in the long run and environmentalism (which could be viewed as a religion) is a human's arrogant excuse to say we cause something when we really have zero effect. This planet will heal itself and be standing long after we are gone.

Taxes:
Democrats: The people with the most money should pay the most taxes, tax increases are mostly good.
Punish the success, again. This kills growth, drive, desire to succeed and also creates more creativity in getting out of paying taxes. Treat everybody fairly. Hell, I'll even grant a pass for everyone under $100k since they expect it anyway and implement a sales tax of no more than 7% Screw this 23% thing that Huckabee has talked about. Less tax means more private money.
Republicans: the entire economy can benefit if taxes remain relatively low, tax cuts are the way to go.
Logical. If I had 25% of my income back each year, I'd have more to spend, save, invest, etc. As a business owner, I would have more money to hire more employees that would spend more. Plus, I shouldn't have to lose my income to foot the bill for those that are unwilling to work.

It must be said that these are the positions each party holds traditionally. Each candidate can hold to these views point strictly or they can mix it up a bit. It's not uncommon to find a “liberal republican” or a “conservative democrat”. When it's all said and done, it really depends on the person. Please note that most democrats and republicans differ on the main issues as listed above.

The democrats in short want everyone to be the same, no one to be better or worse. They want to be the ones throwing down the handouts so they are 'needed' and they want to stiffle achievment. They wanted extremely limited freedoms and want to protect us from ourselves because we are unable to do so.
Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have.
Ronald Reagan

[jyro]

I must say I am very surprised at your choice. I have seen your posts and you are one of the few on this site who makes me think and helped me see issues in different ways.

How do you get away from his plans for immediate withdrawal from Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other country that did not directly attack us?

fuck um, bring troops home from all bases abroad. Pay off the debt, find a viable alternative to oil, drill where the oil is, where ever that is, sell food to the world for a profit for a change. Sell medical care to the world for profit. Tax illegals wages more, tax money sent out of the country. no ss benefits for illegals. Legalize and tax marijuana. Make prisoners in jails productive workers. Do we really need billion dollar planes?

that's just a few.

[Mustangman_2000]

I'm a Democrat.

Although, I'm not as proud of that as I use to be.

[mikeb]

I'm pretty conservative perhaps with a libertarian bent.

What greatly concerns me is this country's attempts to move towards socialism, and the lack of fiscal responsibility. Who the hell is going to pay for the financial mess the country is deeply sitting in? And there are politicians that still want to enact grand schemes like universal health care - where is the money going to come from?

IMO republicans have moved far away from conservatism. You only have to look at the candidates running today to see that. Not a Reagan republican in the bunch :(

[Sean88gt]

I'm pretty conservative perhaps with a libertarian bent.

What greatly concerns me is this country's attempts to move towards socialism, and the lack of fiscal responsibility. Who the hell is going to pay for the financial mess the country is deeply sitting in? And there are politicians that still want to enact grand schemes like universal health care - where is the money going to come from?

IMO republicans have moved far away from conservatism. You only have to look at the candidates running today to see that. Not a Reagan republican in the bunch :(

I believe it was Huckabee that was asked about Reagan Conservatism and he rambled some garbage about the gov't helping those less fortunate to reach the American dream :mad:

[mikeb]

I believe it was Huckabee that was asked about Reagan Conservatism and he rambled some garbage about the gov't helping those less fortunate to reach the American dream :mad:

Whatever happened to giving "a hand up" instead of "a handout" :confused: :(

I guess the hand up requires work and doesn't get votes.

[Sean88gt]

Pretty much:(

[Slowhand]

I'm pretty conservative perhaps with a libertarian bent.

What greatly concerns me is this country's attempts to move towards socialism, and the lack of fiscal responsibility. Who the hell is going to pay for the financial mess the country is deeply sitting in? And there are politicians that still want to enact grand schemes like universal health care - where is the money going to come from?

IMO republicans have moved far away from conservatism. You only have to look at the candidates running today to see that. Not a Reagan republican in the bunch :(

Socialism has no place in the United States, period; this country is a capitalist, lassie fair Republic with no provision for a socialist government. But even if you think Socialism has a place in the US, here's why it won't work:

Public and Government Fiscal Irresponsibility. We all know about the government's fiscal irresponsiblity, but what about the public's? 95% of this country already has trouble managing their money and debt, and socialism won't help that any becuase, when you people know they will always have the government's titty to go back to and suck milk from, they will treat it like that. They'll begin living well outside their means (think ElvisKlein) because they know that, if they ever lose their home or their job or any large chunk of money, the government will be their to pay for their healthcare and food. So why not go crazy and amass large debts?

Combine the large debt that Americans will generate with the large national debt that will be created because of all the goddamned money we'll spend on these programs and you can kiss the economic prosperity of this country goodbye, and along with it everything you enjoy about this country.

And no, there isn't a Reagan conservative in this race and probably never will be again becuase people are too afraid. Reagan wasn't afraid to do what was necessary, even though it would make him look absolutely horrible in the public eye. It's a damned shame too...we could use a Reagan right about now.

[Vertnut]

I'm a Democrat.

Although, I'm not as proud of that as I use to be.
I'm a Republican, and not as proud of that, either. I've gone more towards the "middle"...whatever that is. All of them piss me off...

[black01gt]

fuck um, bring troops home from all bases abroad. Pay off the debt, find a viable alternative to oil, drill where the oil is, where ever that is, sell food to the world for a profit for a change. Sell medical care to the world for profit. Tax illegals wages more, tax money sent out of the country. no ss benefits for illegals. Legalize and tax marijuana. Make prisoners in jails productive workers. Do we really need billion dollar planes?

that's just a few.
Absolutely. I might add, make a strong message -clearly and believable this time- that "we're going to play nice and fair but, if you cross this ocean and fuck with us again what happens to you will be damned astounding! :cool: We have all these daisy cutters...and whatever country or countries you came from will pay, dearly." (at least I think we do) WE REALLY NEED TO REGAIN RESPECT FROM THE WORLD. We're like the biggest and oldest brother that has lost all clout.

I would like to see Gen. Colin Powell as a running mate with Ron Paul.

[Paladin]

fuck um, bring troops home from all bases abroad. Pay off the debt, find a viable alternative to oil, drill where the oil is, where ever that is, sell food to the world for a profit for a change. Sell medical care to the world for profit. Tax illegals wages more, tax money sent out of the country. no ss benefits for illegals. Legalize and tax marijuana. Make prisoners in jails productive workers. Do we really need billion dollar planes?

that's just a few.

Thanks for the response. You must be pretty upset to have gotten to this point and have decided to support RP. I think the man is a complete idiot who would have no chance of getting any of his ideas enacted because he won't ever be taken seriously. I am okay with most of those things, I just can't see withdrawing from the war on terror.

And to black01gt, yeah, let's tell them that if they ever come back across the ocean we will really get serious. :rolleyes: LOL, you're still nuthugging your hero Bill, huh? Because that's what he did, and see what it got us?
*cough* 9/11 *cough*

Bush did what you are advoctaing, can't you see that? He just did it a little different than what you advocated. Your hatred of him has blinded you that he is closer to what you want than you will ever know becuase of your hatred. Too bad you can't see that.

[White trash wagon]

And to black01gt, yeah, let's tell them that if they ever come back across the ocean we will really get serious. :rolleyes: LOL, you're still nuthugging your hero Bill, huh? Because that's what he did, and see what it got us?
*cough* 9/11 *cough*

Bush did what you are advoctaing, can't you see that? He just did it a little different than what you advocated. Your hatred of him has blinded you that he is closer to what you want than you will ever know becuase of your hatred. Too bad you can't see that.

I've got to say 90Notch, you very consistent! It's really hard to imagine you were ever a Democrat.

Scott

[jyro]

President Bush worked for change and he got it started, the war on terror is a change from what Clinton did. Be aware, when candidates talk about change, you never know you'll end up with. It could even be worse than anything Bush has done. I think all candidates this cycle SUCK.
I think Ron Paul is the most conservative of the bunch of egg sucking Republicans running currently. That's why I am supporting him.

[jyro]

there is No future. No good life for our children. All of our savings with be worthless. All money inherited won't buy shit in 30 years. Is the war on terror any good if our children have no future.


Glen Beck ---- Watch this please -- head of the GAO David Walker interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-16u9x3tfE

[black01gt]

And to black01gt,
Bush did what you are advoctaing, can't you see that? He just did it a little different than what you advocated. Your hatred of him has blinded you that he is closer to what you want than you will ever know becuase of your hatred. Too bad you can't see that.
"He just did it a little different than what you advocated." Yeah, by bankrupting the country and sending a loud message that if you fuck with us...we'll make somebody else pay and drag it out til we've exhausted ourselves against a bunch of ragtag towelheads. Are you sure you want to be the last one to see that?
I'm completely sincere that America needs to regain it's rightful respect from the world---again---and part of that process is being a punisher if need be, and part being the gentle giant----again. I don't need your approval in stating so. If you want to yap about Clinton like an old war soldier looping his story go ahead. If all roads lead back to Clinton in your world that's unfortunate. The rest of the world has moved on (there's you a set up ;) )

Your devoted one man anti-Ron Paul campaign says a lot about your thought process. You don't have a fuckin clue who you care to support, but have been obsessed with me supporting someone instead. Now you're even on jyros ass about it. Nothing but negative bullshit. I would have thought even you would get tired of listening to yourself by now. You're imbalanced, angry, and need help.

Joke's on you. I can't stand Ron Paul. Mitt Romney is "the man!"

[Fox466]

I have a democratic stance on 8 of of these 11 topics ... if that gives you an idea.


Nice post but I wonder how easily you are led, as that was written with a very decided lean to it...

[redheadintx]

Nice post but I wonder how easily you are led, as that was written with a very decided lean to it...

I've just recently started to read up on the different political parties and candidates and really try to get a handle on where I stand and what is important to me. I've read many comparisons (the one I posted was just one I found quickly when I googled it) and done several "who should you vote for" type quizzes and all of them had led me to a democratic candidate... Barack Obama in particular but I still don't know who I would like to vote for. I will do a LOT more research before I decide... but I can assure you that I am definitely more democrat than I am republican.

[Pro88LX]

but I can assure you that I am definitely more democrat than I am republican.

too bad with the electoral college, and the fact that you live in texas, that probably doesnt matter.

[redheadintx]

too bad with the electoral college, and the fact that you live in texas, that probably doesnt matter.

Yeah... just took this quiz and it says Barack Obama for me as well.

You guys take it and post up your results!!!

http://glassbooth.org/

[Mustangman_2000]

Yeah... just took this quiz and it says Barack Obama for me as well.

You guys take it and post up your results!!!

http://glassbooth.org/

I'm would not vote for Obama, but your poll seems to think I share his beliefs. :confused:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/myjpegs06/Miscellaneous/glassbooth_myresults.jpg

[redheadintx]

Weird. I've taken three and they all yield the same results for me... I doubt they're all some Obama funded consipiracy quizzes. :p

[Pro88LX]

Yeah... just took this quiz and it says Barack Obama for me as well.

You guys take it and post up your results!!!

http://glassbooth.org/

81% MCCAIN
78% HUCKABEE

30% OBAMA
28% CLINTON

[black01gt]

If we reward lawbreakers who enter this country illegally with citizenship, then any new laws Congress might pass likewise can be ignored. Reform must begin with a new mentality that immigration laws will be enforced.
RON PAUL

"We've had managed care in this country since the early 1970s, and it hasn't worked well. It's very, very expensive, and it's the fault that we changed our ERISA law and our tax laws that created this corporatism that runs medicine. Wall Street rakes off the profits. The patients are unhappy. The doctors are unhappy. And it's a monopoly now. Who lobbies us in Washington? The drug companies and the HMOs. They come. And now what is the cry for? Socialized medicine. That's not the answer. We need to get the government out of the way.
RON PAUL

Q: Your position on the war is pretty simple: Get out. What about trying to minimize the bloodbath that would certainly occur if we pull out in a hurry? PAUL: The people who say there will be a bloodbath are the ones who said it will be a cakewalk or it will be a slam dunk, and that it will be paid for by oil. Why believe them? They've been wrong on everything they've said. So why not ask the people who advised not to go into the region and into the war? The war has not gone well one bit.

[Joebum]

Question for those who are opposed to big gov't...

what's the opposite? by not endorsing big gov't, are you saying that the state/country must be in the hands of the people?

what about the impact of big business on the people when there is a "small" gov't. I mean it seems that big business, capital, and production can easily trump the people's voice in a small gov't system.

i know this isn't historically the case, but present day capitalism and free market are a million times different than it was even 50 years ago.

[jyro]

1 Ron Paul 66% similarity 2 Mike Huckabee 65% similarity 3 Rudy Giuliani 62% similarity

[jyro]

Question for those who are opposed to big gov't...
what's the opposite? by not endorsing big gov't, are you saying that the state/country must be in the hands of the people?
what about the impact of big business on the people when there is a "small" gov't. I mean it seems that big business, capital, and production can easily trump the people's voice in a small gov't system.
i know this isn't historically the case, but present day capitalism and free market are a million times different than it was even 50 years ago.

Federally run,
Education
tax system
health system
transportation system
emissions laws

[Joebum]

as opposed to corporate run


Education
tax system
health system
transportation system
emissions laws

????

[jyro]

as opposed to corporate run????

State run, these items should all be local states issues.

[jyro]

The free market system determines where people shop and do business, not corporations. Give me a example of a corporation running something that you don't have a choice to go somewhere else for?

[Joebum]

i believe you above statement is true when and only when there is competition in a free market, which we do not have currently, because many of the largest corporations have monopolies on the market.

furthermore, advertising often determines how people shop. most consumers in our market are uneducated, and thus buy on corporation's whim and choice, b/c corp's control advertising.

and fair markets work well when people actually have buying power, thus your assumption is rooted in the white, middle class assumption that everyone has money. poor people do exist in america, no matter how much we try and hide, ignore, deny, dehumanize, demonize, and so on and so forth.

i plead now that i'm ignorant of specific examples at this time and can go digging, but that wasn't the point of my first post.

all i really wanted to do is raise some questions about assumptions (which i know i too have), and ignorance on our economy, the "free" market, trade, and the role of corporations in modern day capitalism.

[01WhiteCobra]

joebum, there are alot of thoughts in your last post some related some that are not.

[black01gt]

The free market system determines where people shop and do business, not corporations. Give me a example of a corporation running something that you don't have a choice to go somewhere else for?
The U.S. Government. :D Just kidding. I've got my eye on Costa Rica.

[01WhiteCobra]

fuck um, bring troops home from all bases abroad. Pay off the debt, find a viable alternative to oil, drill where the oil is, where ever that is, sell food to the world for a profit for a change. Sell medical care to the world for profit. Tax illegals wages more, tax money sent out of the country. no ss benefits for illegals. Legalize and tax marijuana. Make prisoners in jails productive workers. Do we really need billion dollar planes?

that's just a few.

yea, we'll get all that done in the next 4 years.

[jyro]

many of the largest corporations have monopolies on the market.
poor people do exist in america, no matter how much we try and hide, ignore, deny, dehumanize, demonize, and so on and so forth.


Joe, there are more poor people because of welfare , why work when I can get by for free. Welfare causes this mentality--- Why enter the job market making 6.00 an hour when I can make more not working, people never work their way up the ladder if they never start working. Welfare prevents them from working.
Why do you think immigrants from Vietnem and India do so well here in America, they start out working, if one job isn't enough, they get 2 or 3, noone gives them welfare, they don't expect it, most are too proud to accept it, they're parents never had it so they don't expect it. Welfare breeds more people on welfare, it never cures the root problem.
Government can NEVER handle problems as efficently or as cost effective as the private sector.

Joe, when I was married at 21 to a 18 year old girl, I didn't even have a car, we had a car her father let us drive and 600 dollars my father had kept for me from settlement in a accident I was in in 1963. My bride was 3 month pregnant.
I went to work on the freight docks at Yellow freight at night and drove a forklift for Plastics manufacturing on Westmorland during the day. I worked for every dam thing I have, weekends, days, nights, whatever it took to make ends meet. I never even thought about someone who could give me anything. I quit Plastics Mfg. and went to work at a electric motor shop in Dallas on Corrinth. I worked there for 4 years and was hired at Thorson Tool company in the maintenance department on stright midnights, every job I went to was for better money after 3 month there. I've been at my current job for 28 years.

No one gets anywhere in life without sacrifice and dedication. Welfare removes the reasons for both. The only way to get ahead in life is working. Look at the few people that win the lottery, a lot of them you hear about, their life is shit in 18 months.


13 years ago this was written: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/BG1063.cfm

Recent research by Congressional Budget Office Director June O'Neill shows that increasing the length of time a child spends on welfare may reduce the child's IQ by as much as 20 percent.

Welfare receipt as a child has a negative effect on the earnings and employment capacity of young men. The more welfare income received by a boy's family during his childhood, the lower will be the boy's earnings as an adult, even when compared to boys in families with identical non-welfare income.

Receipt of welfare and living in a single-parent family during childhood are strongly associated with criminal activity among young men and having illegitimate children among young women.
Overall, welfare operates as a form of social toxin. The more of this toxin received by a child's family, the less successful will be the child as an adult.

[01WhiteCobra]

Ronald Reagan increased the National Debt in the name of reviving a sliding economy, Clinton was simply rewarded with inheriting office at the right time to see the effects of Reagan's administration.

Actually, thank Nixon for decoupling the dollar from gold. It started the largest expansion of easy credit ever in this country.

We're about to pay for it now.

Short the stock market, go long on gold. We'll revisit in 10 years.

[black01gt]

yea, we'll get all that done in the next 4 years.
I don't think you can set a time frame, but the choices or either get it started or don't. There is also quite a contrast the consequences.

[black01gt]

Joe, there are more poor people because of welfare , why work when I can get by for free. Welfare causes this mentality--- Why enter the job market making 6.00 an hour when I can make more not working, people never work their way up the ladder if they never start working. Welfare prevents them from working.

Most welfare dependants are accustomed to and comfortable having the government control their lives. The rest of us are not so "comfortable" (trying not to use the word "lazy" here..) or willing to live that way.

Like I said, "McGovernment can fix you up, but you have to do what we say."

[jyro]

I think, "thank you welfare". Cut welfare, we won't need illegals

[black01gt]

I think, "thank you welfare". Cut welfare, we won't need illegals
Better yet, cut welfare and they won't need us. :D

[01WhiteCobra]

I don't think you can set a time frame, but the choices or either get it started or don't. There is also quite a contrast the consequences.

They won't even get started. Except maybe the withdrawal of troops. All the other things will take massive cooperation... which he ain't gonna get.

[DOHCTR]

The only things I am concerned about are gun laws and health care.


After 4 years undergrad and 4 years of med-school, if I am told that I have to accept beans for payment for my services and have my salary regulated by the US government, I am moving the fuck out of this country.

Cant think of a worse shafting than spending hundreds of thousands on my education and then making 50k a year and being in debt for the rest of my life.

[jyro]

After 4 years undergrad and 4 years of med-school, if I am told that I have to accept beans for payment for my services
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_APRkrXeY&feature=related

[black01gt]

They won't even get started. Except maybe the withdrawal of troops. All the other things will take massive cooperation... which he ain't gonna get.
Generally speaking that's a $trillion right there. Pretty good shot in the ass and even tho the profiteers will squeal painfully, sorry, we need our money back. The Iraqi's are just gonna have to find a way to handle the 200 bad guys left themselves, and the aforementioned "fortunate" entities are gonna have to count their blessings thus far and call it a day.

I think it's too early to call on the cooperation. I definately think Paul with fight for his plan with it or without it. And that's what I'm looking for.

[black01gt]

Cant think of a worse shafting than spending hundreds of thousands on my education and then making 50k a year and being in debt for the rest of my life.
I have a very good friend that is a neuro surgeon and he is in the exact situation you just described. He's 50 years old and is closing his practice because of one primary reason. Malpractice insurance. He's very let down by the fact that capping the medical lawsuit ceiling that was supposed to assist docs with their ridiculous premiums, has not helped them in any way. Plus the fact that he's an ethical docter and he's tired of serving the insurance industry instead of his oath. And all that that entails.

[01WhiteCobra]

Generally speaking that's a $trillion right there. Pretty good shot in the ass and even tho the profiteers will squeal painfully, sorry, we need our money back. The Iraqi's are just gonna have to find a way to handle the 200 bad guys left themselves, and the aforementioned "fortunate" entities are gonna have to count their blessings thus far and call it a day.

I think it's too early to call on the cooperation. I definately think Paul with fight for his plan with it or without it. And that's what I'm looking for.

At what cost? You are going to take the world from US intervention to no intervention. Such a drastic change in a short period of time is gonna cost the US alot more than a trillion dollars.

[Fox466]

"He just did it a little different than what you advocated." Yeah, by bankrupting the country and sending a loud message that if you fuck with us...

What part, if any, do you think the Senate and House played in the 'state of the union', as it currently stands? Did they do anything to influence anything at all?

Just curious. Please all of you that say Bush is the devil answer. My guess is everyone of you dodge it.

[Paladin]

I've got to say 90Notch, you very consistent! It's really hard to imagine you were ever a Democrat.

Scott

Like I have said before, I was voting for Democrats and wasn't paying attention that they stood for things I didn't.

BTW, it is pretty easy being consistent in your beliefs when you actually believe in them.

[Paladin]

"He just did it a little different than what you advocated." Yeah, by bankrupting the country and sending a loud message that if you fuck with us...we'll make somebody else pay and drag it out til we've exhausted ourselves against a bunch of ragtag towelheads. Are you sure you want to be the last one to see that?
I'm completely sincere that America needs to regain it's rightful respect from the world---again---and part of that process is being a punisher if need be, and part being the gentle giant----again. I don't need your approval in stating so. If you want to yap about Clinton like an old war soldier looping his story go ahead. If all roads lead back to Clinton in your world that's unfortunate. The rest of the world has moved on (there's you a set up ;) )

Your devoted one man anti-Ron Paul campaign says a lot about your thought process. You don't have a fuckin clue who you care to support, but have been obsessed with me supporting someone instead. Now you're even on jyros ass about it. Nothing but negative bullshit. I would have thought even you would get tired of listening to yourself by now. You're imbalanced, angry, and need help.

Joke's on you. I can't stand Ron Paul. Mitt Romney is "the man!"

Any chance that you will take a little wager that jyro doesn't agree with the highlighted statement? I propose a little voluntary ban to the loser. That is if he will indulge us.

I doubt you will take the challenge, I predict you wimp out. Let's see if the "imbalanced, angry, needing help" guy fronts out black01gt for being a bitch! LOL

Bush has not bankrupted the country. 9/11 had to be responded to. The terrorists went unchecked by your hero for 8 years, with very little done even before that, but at least they weren't attacking us on our soil until 1993. Why are you so worried about the rest of the world respecting us? Are you worried about what the UN thinks? I think the islamic terrorists have at least been disrespecting us since Carter was in office (Iran hostage situation) and even before that.

When do you last think the US was this gentle giant you want so badly?


I wonder how many of these uncomfortable little questions I posed to you go ignored by your response? I bet most! :D

[Paladin]

I've just recently started to read up on the different political parties and candidates and really try to get a handle on where I stand and what is important to me. I've read many comparisons (the one I posted was just one I found quickly when I googled it) and done several "who should you vote for" type quizzes and all of them had led me to a democratic candidate... Barack Obama in particular but I still don't know who I would like to vote for. I will do a LOT more research before I decide... but I can assure you that I am definitely more democrat than I am republican.

I don't mean to pick on you, but you seem to be the typical Democratic voter, the kind they hope will stay uninformed. I hope the more you read up on issues you vote for the best candidate. I bet you will.

[Paladin]

BTW, I shared 80% with Romney, 47% with RP, 42% with Hillary, and 33% with Obama.

This just confirms my belief that RP is not the candidate for me. He and Hillary are not that different. LOL

[Paladin]

I don't think you can set a time frame, but the choices or either get it started or don't. There is also quite a contrast the consequences.

I thought you were all about time frames and immediate action? LOL

[Paladin]

Generally speaking that's a $trillion right there. Pretty good shot in the ass and even tho the profiteers will squeal painfully, sorry, we need our money back. The Iraqi's are just gonna have to find a way to handle the 200 bad guys left themselves, and the aforementioned "fortunate" entities are gonna have to count their blessings thus far and call it a day.

I think it's too early to call on the cooperation. I definately think Paul with fight for his plan with it or without it. And that's what I'm looking for.

So how expensive will another attack on our soil be? This is the shortsightedness you immediate pull out people are not addressing. 9/11 nearly took out the ecomony and changed us even moreso than it did. This is the unfortunate cost Bush had to decide to spend for our safety. It is why he won a second term, we all wanted to be safe. We were tired of the lack of it before 9/11.

The immediate pullout of troops form all countries, which you support through RP, will cost us when they come back and attack us, which they will. I guess you would rather your family face the terorists than our well trained and brave troops.

I bet you thought there would be another attack during Bush's second term, didn't you? You were wrong on that, and you are wrong for wanting an immediate pulout. I always laugh at the idiots who say we can pull out from the war on terror becuase we haven't had any attacks, yet the war on terror, as it has beeen fought by Bush, has been the only thing that has prevented the attacks on our soil. If we change to reactive (immediate pullout) from proactive measures (Bush's actions) against the terrorists, we are doomed to repeat history. I had enough of Clinton's head in the sand foreign policy when he was in office, I don't want a repeat of it.


I like my terrorist dying from bullet wounds fired from a soldier's weapon, not after he kills innocent Americans in their offices from a homicide attack.

[Sean88gt]

After reading the differences I'd say the test is inaccurate. They list Civil Liberties and Domestic security together under the Patriiot Act which I disagree with on several levels. Target your security on certain groups, not a broadcast over every citizen hoping to catch someone.

[Paladin]

After reading the differences I'd say the test is inaccurate. They list Civil Liberties and Domestic security together under the Patriiot Act which I disagree with on several levels. Target your security on certain groups, not a broadcast over every citizen hoping to catch someone.

I didn't look at the group behind the poll, but I bet they are even more liberal than the other group redhead posted the list from earlier in the thread.

[jyro]

So how expensive will another attack on our soil be? This is the shortsightedness you immediate pull out people are not addressing. 9/11 nearly took out the ecomony and changed us even moreso than it did. This is the unfortunate cost Bush had to decide to spend for our safety. It is why he won a second term, we all wanted to be safe. We were tired of the lack of it before 9/11.

The immediate pullout of troops form all countries, which you support through RP, will cost us when they come back and attack us, which they will. I guess you would rather your family face the terorists than our well trained and brave troops.


After seeing President Bush, and other Republican presidential canidates currently running, side with the Democrats on so many issues and coming to the reality about the debt we face in the future because the Republican administrations spend money like there is a endless supply, Regan, Bush 1, and Bush 2, all 3 increased the public debt like crazy, I can't vote for any of them. Even without another terror attack on our soil, life in America as we know it is fixing to change forever in the near future because of the debt. I'm not a "sky is falling", type of person but the debt is crazy. I voted for Perot because of his promises to handle the debt back in 1992
Bring the troops home from all bases, let those countries where we leave protect themselves as they are supposed to. America has tried to change the world and it just isn't working, we can not sustain the effort and are only creating enemys because of our efforts.

We all here plan on retireing in the next 50 years. you better learn how to garden cause the money won't even buy food when 100 dollars is worth less than a bag of beans. I only have 20 or so years left to worry about if I'm lucky. I'm terribly worried about my grandkids and how we leave the world for them.

If there is such a threat from terrorists attacks why haven't there been any through the Mexico or Canadian borders, the 1 or 2 we suspected were stopped and put in prison. Let the troops returning set up bases on the borders and protect us there. Why , if there is such a threat, why hasn't the president enforced the borders.

Why is this Texas connecting highway being secretly pushed through with emminent domain. Why are we allowing Mexican trucks to enter the USA loaded with whatever they carry, do you know how big a bomb could be if a tank car full of ferterlizer mixed with diesel was allowed to cross the border in a Mexican truck. The Morrow federal building was taken down by a small van filled with ferterlizer and race fuel. I think the threat could be better handle with more troops here, not in 300 bases around the world.

Ron Paul says he will try to affect all these topics in a way I am infavor of.

[Paladin]

After seeing President Bush, and other Republican presidential canidates currently running, side with the Democrats on so many issues and coming to the reality about the debt we face in the future because the Republican administrations spend money like there is a endless supply, Regan, Bush 1, and Bush 2, all 3 increased the public debt like crazy, I can't vote for any of them. Even without another terror attack on our soil, life in America as we know it is fixing to change forever in the near future because of the debt. I'm not a "sky is falling", type of person but the debt is crazy. I voted for Perot because of his promises to handle the debt back in 1992
Bring the troops home from all bases, let those countries where we leave protect themselves as they are supposed to. America has tried to change the world and it just isn't working, we can not sustain the effort and are only creating enemys because of our efforts. .

I find it funny that some think Bush has sided with the Dems on too many issues, yet the liberals think this state of affairs is all Bush's fault. You and I see Bush siding with the Dems too much, the libs say he hasn't done anything but go out on his own with no consideration of any of their thoughts or ideas.

We all here plan on retireing in the next 50 years. you better learn how to garden cause the money won't even buy food when 100 dollars is worth less than a bag of beans. I only have 20 or so years left to worry about if I'm lucky. I'm terribly worried about my grandkids and how we leave the world for them.

I am also worried about my kids and grandkids. I juts don't think the outlook is as bleak as you portray it.

If there is such a threat from terrorists attacks why haven't there been any through the Mexico or Canadian borders, the 1 or 2 we suspected were stopped and put in prison. Let the troops returning set up bases on the borders and protect us there. Why , if there is such a threat, why hasn't the president enforced the borders.

Is the answer that the terrorists have been so disrupted by the War on Terror Bush has undertaken that they cannot gather enough steam to put forth an attack even with our border still unprotected? I think we have to protect our borders and once we get the War on Terror stabilized, we can make more prgress on the border. It cannot happen soon enough.

Why is this Texas connecting highway being secretly pushed through with emminent domain. Why are we allowing Mexican trucks to enter the USA loaded with whatever they carry, do you know how big a bomb could be if a tank car full of ferterlizer mixed with diesel was allowed to cross the border in a Mexican truck. The Morrow federal building was taken down by a small van filled with ferterlizer and race fuel. I think the threat could be better handle with more troops here, not in 300 bases around the world.

I think this is a serious issue, but I would not go after this issue before finishing in Iraq. I think we would be trading one problem for another if we abandon Iraq and concentrate only on the borders. Remember, not one of the terrorists that flew planes into the WTC came across the border illegally. They had current visas or were absconders on expired visas, if my memory serves correctly.

Ron Paul says he will try to affect all these topics in a way I am infavor of.

I know he says it, and I think he believes it. I just don't think he has a snowballs chance in hell of getting anything done, including his total withdrawal from Iraq. I think even the Pelosi led Congress has figured out that would be catastrophic, hence they stopped asking for it. In fact, I haven't heard any candidate other than RP call for the immediate and complete withdrawal anymore even though it used to be the calling card when the elections were last held. He is out there in places even crazy ass liberals wont go anymore.

BTW, since black01gt probabaly won't take my little wager for the voluntary ban challenge, will you answer a question?

Have I been on your "ass" about RP? :D

[black01gt]

What part, if any, do you think the Senate and House played in the 'state of the union', as it currently stands? Did they do anything to influence anything at all?

Just curious. Please all of you that say Bush is the devil answer. My guess is everyone of you dodge it.
A large part...HUGE. In case you thought I trusted them let me expalin, I DON'T.

Actually when I say Bush, I'm reffering to his cabinet, his party (or once was), his decisions (which are basically taking orders), his government management, his way or the highway...his whole damned group of marauders but, he is The Boss is he not? So at least for me, I'm not saying that Bush is the devil. I'm sayin that there's a whole group of em. He's the mouthpeice. LMAO that you think I would give Bush himself that much credit.

[black01gt]

I thought you were all about time frames and immediate action? LOL
Nope. I'm not all about times frames.

[black01gt]

I don't mean to pick on you,
:D

[emg]

I'm voting for who ever gets me my $600 rebate check.

i agree with this guy...when do we get it anyways

[Paladin]

:D

So you post the proof that I stated from the onset that I wasn't trying to be an ass? You are something else. Did you forget to address my challenge? :D

[Paladin]

Nope. I'm not all about times frames.


Yep, no time frame as long as it is immediate, right? :rolleyes:

[black01gt]

Any chance that you will take a little wager that jyro doesn't agree with the highlighted statement?

Bush has not bankrupted the country. 9/11 had to be responded to. The terrorists went unchecked by your hero blah blah blah.....

When do you last think the US was this gentle giant you want so badly?

I wonder how many of these uncomfortable little questions I posed to you go ignored by your response? I bet most! :D
No.

The terrorist are unchecked right now. Currently. As in, every fuckin day! If spending a billion dollars a month is all that provides you security God help you.
But wait. Are you talking about Islamic type terrorist or illegal immigrant type terrorist? Cause I think both are going "unchecked" by "your hero".

The Reagan Administration and Bush 41.

Wonder no more.

[black01gt]

Yep, no time frame as long as it is immediate, right? :rolleyes:
Right.

[Paladin]

No..

Damn, how uncomfortable to just get challenged and back down. Good call though. Maybe you will stop posting stuff you can't back up, huh? LOL

The terrorist are unchecked right now. Currently. As in, every fuckin day! If spending a billion dollars a month is all that provides you security God help you.
But wait. Are you talking about Islamic type terrorist or illegal immigrant type terrorist? Cause I think both are going "unchecked" by "your hero"

Please explain what terrorists are unchecked? They put out a few roadside bombs and hide in mountain caves. I think they are slowly being hunted down and killed. I do wish they would get this accomplished sooner than the prgress appears to be going, but we are making progress nonetheless. Hell, we haven't had planes flying into buildings or bombimng in the lower level parking garages by the same groups, have we?

BTW, what illegal immigrant terrorist are you referring to? The only ones I know of didn't come across the border, they just absconded on visas that expired. Do you have proof someone came across a border and committed a terrorist attack?

The Reagan Administration and Bush 41..

While it may have been relatively quiet back then, I think you are once again forgetting history. Go back and check on it and get back with me. ;)

Wonder no more.

You are actually starting to answer my questions, good boy! :D

[jyro]

If spending a billion dollars a month is all that provides you security God help you.

Just the interest on the debt for the month of December was $106,138,177,851.45 . That's without ANY spending .


106 billion dollars for one month

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_congressbo.pdf

national debt by presidents
http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP-L.gif

"Have I been on your "ass" about RP? "
not at all, I don't care WHO you vote for really, just VOTE
I'll end up voting for whoever wins the Republican nomination. I just wish it could be Ron Paul.

[564826]

Dem all the way!!! :cool:

[black01gt]

Hell, we haven't had planes flying into buildings or bombimng in the lower level parking garages by the same groups, have we?

BTW, what illegal immigrant terrorist are you referring to? The only ones I know of didn't come across the border, they just absconded on visas that expired. Do you have proof someone came across a border and committed a terrorist attack?


"Specifically what groups is that? You seem to have em all rounded up and in the cross hairs in Iraq. I don't think it's that simple. Neither does Pakistan, Europe, Sudan, etc etc...
Using all of our defense mechanism is one place is not a good idea. With your Bush loving goggles I don't expect you to see that tho.

The only ones you know of..". Exactly. Fortunately you are not the decider of what terrorism is to this country. Define terrorist attack. With the complete lack of security along the borders you don't know any more than me who's in this country planning harm.

But I was referring to the more subtle but consistant terrorism of illegal alians and their effect on the country. It's not something for speculation. It's definately happening. I don't see it being checked by "your hero". Do you?

[black01gt]

I don't care WHO you vote for really, just VOTE
I'll end up voting for whoever wins the Republican nomination. I just wish it could be Ron Paul.
I have always agreed whole heartedly with that but I don't think I can promise it this time. If I have the opportunity I'll follow Dr. Paul to the Independent or Liberaterian party. But if I don't get the opportunity to vote for him I can't in good faith give my vote to anyone else. I'm tired of voting "against someone" or for "the lesser of the evils". I'm done with that crap. I wish I had a back up, but I don't. The others look like the same old big gov and corporate caca to me. Nowhere left to make a stand. :(

[Joebum]

Joe, there are more poor people because of welfare , why work when I can get by for free. Welfare causes this mentality--- Why enter the job market making 6.00 an hour when I can make more not working, people never work their way up the ladder if they never start working. Welfare prevents them from working.

Look, I realize these "issues" are sensitive for several reasons, but this idea that welfare makes people poor is ludicrous, based solely in ignorance and separation from real people in real dire situations.

I would say that you have a false perception of what poverty is in reality. what you experienced was not poverty, but a lack of money. being poor means more than simple economics, especially on a personal level. You're probably also a white-male, yeah we all know how hard we've had it in our society. :rolleyes:

Furthermore, you base your arguments (link) on a group of ultra-conservatives that are all about small gov't, thus calling for the abolition of welfare. that just proves to me you are familiar with circular arguments that fill ignorance with ignorance.

I would say that you have a very narrow view of the realities of the welfare system, and perceive reality through a jaded mix of your own experience, assumptions, and conservative "values." (values that often leave the most desperate and helpless in society in even worse conditions).

Not that you'll read this with an open-mind, but here's a link that argues with real source, and statistics: (sure, call it circular reason too if you want; at least their findings are based in facts, not subjective "feelings" toward poor people).
http://anitraweb.org/homelessness/columns/anitra/eightmyths.html

more than likely I won't be responding, because
1) the internet medium is a poor means of communication, thus resulting in -
2) this conversation likely devolving into name throwing, ignorant claims [including myself], useless arguments, and -
3) I doubt this is a good use of my time.

[jyro]

after many years the rate is still 12% regardless of the money spent.
Joe, I don't ever degrade to personal attacks. This is a discussion between adults and your views are no less valid than mine. Joe the democrat tint is vividly apparent on that site. Bill Clintons welfare reform program did more than any Republican cuts ever did to lower welfare payments.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/22/opinion/22clinton.html

In 2005, the Bureau found 37 million "poor" Americans.

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.

Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.

Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

[Paladin]

"Specifically what groups is that? You seem to have em all rounded up and in the cross hairs in Iraq. I don't think it's that simple. Neither does Pakistan, Europe, Sudan, etc etc...
Using all of our defense mechanism is one place is not a good idea. With your Bush loving goggles I don't expect you to see that tho.

You have no idea who is trying to kill us? You keep saying Iraq when I say War on Terror. You silly Bush hating idiots keep forgetting we are fighting terrorists wherever they hide. You want us out of Iraq but want us to go into Pakistan, Sudan, Saudia Arabia, etc? Yeah, like you could stomach us going into other countries while you can't even stomach us fighting Al Quaeda in Afghanistan and Iraq. :rolleyes:

The only ones you know of..". Exactly. Fortunately you are not the decider of what terrorism is to this country. Define terrorist attack. With the complete lack of security along the borders you don't know any more than me who's in this country planning harm.

Yeah, I know there are terrorists out there that want to kill us. Apparently you don't.

But I was referring to the more subtle but consistant terrorism of illegal alians and their effect on the country. It's not something for speculation. It's definately happening. I don't see it being checked by "your hero". Do you?

LOL, you want to abandon the fight against Al Quaeda in Iraq and fight the "subtle" terrorists? You are such an idiot I can't even believe it.

Are you still looking for proof of a terrorist that came across the border illegally or have you given up?

I want the border closed down while fighting the terrorist who have actually killed my fellow Americans. Why do you want to only go after illegal immigrants and ignore the terrorists who killed your fellow countrymen? It says alot about your motives when you look at the reality of what you want. Very sad!

[Paladin]

I have always agreed whole heartedly with that but I don't think I can promise it this time. If I have the opportunity I'll follow Dr. Paul to the Independent or Liberaterian party. But if I don't get the opportunity to vote for him I can't in good faith give my vote to anyone else. I'm tired of voting "against someone" or for "the lesser of the evils". I'm done with that crap. I wish I had a back up, but I don't. The others look like the same old big gov and corporate caca to me. Nowhere left to make a stand. :(

I am sure you will keep your pie hole shut when the next President gets elected, since you could have participated and chose not to, right?

BTW, since you have chosen to vote for RP or no one, you will not be voting in the next election.

[black01gt]

Are you still looking for proof of a terrorist that came across the border illegally or have you given up?


No. I walked through Parkland and a Wal Mart and there they were. I see whole groups of them standing along Cooper street. I looked in a grade school that was teaching in Espanol..there they were. They're not hard to find. Unless your the U.S. government.

[black01gt]

I am sure you will keep your pie hole shut when the next President gets elected, since you could have participated and chose not to, right?


Wrong. When I'm not a U.S. citizen, and not paying federal taxes you can look for me to not have a right to speak up about American policy.

[Paladin]

No. I walked through Parkland and a Wal Mart and there they were. I see whole groups of them standing along Cooper street. I looked in a grade school that was teaching in Espanol..there they were. They're not hard to find. Unless your the U.S. government.

So all illegal immigrants are terrorists?

[Paladin]

Wrong. When I'm not a U.S. citizen, and not paying federal taxes you can look for me to not have a right to speak up about American policy.

I figured you would bitch about the problems but make no effort to do anything about them. Just checking.

[black01gt]

So all illegal immigrants are terrorists?
In the voice of the SNL church lady..."So all illegal immigrants are terrorist? Well isn't that special." :D

Yep, I think they are.

[Joebum]

okay, so its seems that i wasn't able to resist posting :( :)

i totally agree that the site i linked was definitely democratic in perspective.

Even with the information that you sited, I would argue that you have a narrow, misconceived notion of what poverty is.

Much of what you listed is stuff. People are not the things they own, are given, etc.
Also, where'd this info come from? There are certainly more than enough people who have the same notion of poverty online that would put something like that up, not all statistics arel facts, but some are often propaganda. Also, people can be middle class, and be driven to poverty, thus explaining the ownership of things. Apt's often have the things listed in them as rentals.

Most of those who suffer from poverty are children, the elderly, and vet's. Although the US Census defines poverty mostly by threshold (income), we forget that money is affected by people's mental states, physical well being, education, resources- ie, not everyone has someone to call when they cant get to work, or when they're sick; people don't hire "poor" adults, because its easier to hire high school or college students, natural disasters, abuse, addictions, etc. Poverty is a broad and complex issue, that when define overly simple ignores the reality, the people who actually suffer from it.

What I find in most conservatives and Republicans who simply argue for small gov't or no welfare, is the lack of compassion for people and materialism.

That's why I stand with MLK Jr and others who support the cause of people:

"I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered."- MLK, Jr.

Wikipedia's write ups on poverty are helpful, and somewhat objective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_line

As well as the US Census on poverty, which is meant to be more objective as well:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/poverty06/pov06hi.html
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/povdef.html
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/poverty.html

[SOLOW55]

I can't believe that people are even considering voting for Obama . This whole county was built on Christianity . And now people are wanting a Muslim in the highest power ??? I think it would be the being of the end ...

[Pro88LX]

I can't believe that people are even considering voting for Obama . This whole county was built on Christianity . And now people are wanting a Muslim in the highest power ??? I think it would be the being of the end ...

.

[Joebum]

I can't believe that people are even considering voting for Obama . This whole county was built on Christianity . And now people are wanting a Muslim in the highest power ??? I think it would be the being of the end ...

ignorance breeds hate. are you that much of a bigot that you would assume someone's a muslim b/c of fallacious forwarded emails...believe everything you read? or is it b/c of his name :rolleyes:

two things:
1) obama's confessionally a Christian, under the Untied Church of Christ.
2) this country was not built on Christianity, that's just a bunch of crap the religious right has made up and propagating. (If you want to understand the founding of this country beyond ignorance, read into the formation of the declaration of ind, the magna carta, social contract theory, john locke, etc).

you sound like pat robertson for crying out loud.

[Slowhand]

I can't believe that people are even considering voting for Obama . This whole county was built on Christianity . And now people are wanting a Muslim in the highest power ??? I think it would be the being of the end ...

He's hardly a Muslim. He has an islamic background, but is definitely a christian. What scares me about him is that he's apart of a cultish, anti-white, Black Christian church.

[black01gt]

I want the border closed down while fighting the terrorist who have actually killed my fellow Americans. Why do you want to only go after illegal immigrants and ignore the terrorists who killed your fellow countrymen? It says alot about your motives when you look at the reality of what you want. Very sad!
Then your "hero" has let you down.

Who said I wanted to "only go after illegal immigrants"?

Exactly who are those terrorist and where are they at? I know you've read my opinions about Bin Laden et al. Why do you act like you haven't?

[Vertnut]

Then your "hero" has let you down.

Who said I wanted to "only go after illegal immigrants"?

Exactly who are those terrorist and where are they at? I know you've read my opinions about Bin Laden et al. Why do you act like you haven't?
We know they're not over here right now, and that's all I care about. Keep the bastards out of here, and I'm happy.

[SOLOW55]

Well he still has Islamic links ,good enuff not get my vote ...

[redheadintx]

He's hardly a Muslim. He has an islamic background, but is definitely a christian. What scares me about him is that he's apart of a cultish, anti-white, Black Christian church.

What is the name of this church? I'd like to research more about that...

Nevermind... Googled it. ;)

[Mr Majestyk]

We know they're not over here right now, and that's all I care about. Keep the bastards out of here, and I'm happy.

Exactly....take the fight to them and phuc up their country rather than sit on our hands and wait for them to come here. Let those nations that harbor them reap their just rewards.

[Paladin]

In the voice of the SNL church lady..."So all illegal immigrants are terrorist? Well isn't that special." :D

Yep, I think they are.

I am about as anti-illegal immigrant as anyone is, but I can't figure out where you get that logic. I now know why I thought you were an idiot liberal. You may not be liberal, but just like the average liberal, you have no real thought process going and have contradictions and hypocrisy everywhere. I actually am glad that we don't see things the same way.

[Paladin]

Then your "hero" has let you down.

Immigration is one of the areas that Bush has let me down in, no doubt.


Who said I wanted to "only go after illegal immigrants"?

You want to abandon Iraq, one of the places where Al Quaeda is currently. You want to call every single illegal immigrant a terrorist and treat them the same as terrorists who have killed innocent people in homicide attacks. Are you just randomly typing stuff out and not even realizing what you type? Damn dude! LOL


Exactly who are those terrorist and where are they at? I know you've read my opinions about Bin Laden et al. Why do you act like you haven't?

The terrorists are people who have sworn to kill Americans for no reason other than that. They are in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and many other countries. You and your similar thinking ilk have decided to abnandon the fight in Iraq against the terrorists. You have lost the resolve to fight the war on terror, and now you have decided to treat a person who is here illegally like a terrorist who would commit a homicide attack on us. You are one sick, flawed, and nasty individual.

[Paladin]

Well he still has Islamic links ,good enuff not get my vote ...

Someone on the board has a picture of the 9/11 attacks and the saying says something to the effect of "I learned everything I need to know about Islam on 9/11." That pretty much says it all.

[Fox466]

Someone on the board has a picture of the 9/11 attacks and the saying says something to the effect of "I learned everything I need to know about Islam on 9/11." That pretty much says it all.

Allan, I believe...

[lefty1300]

clinton china>bush mexico ......threatwise :mad:

[Preston]

Republican

[black01gt]

We know they're not over here right now, and that's all I care about. Keep the bastards out of here, and I'm happy.
Do we?

[jyro]

We know they're not over here right now, and that's all I care about. Keep the bastards out of here, and I'm happy.

You mean to tell me Akmid and Karame can't figure a way to a Mexico airport through England and cross an almost open border to begin a killing spree on Americans. Just the fact that this hasn't happened seems to show the threat of terrorists in the Muslim world must be blown out of proportion. God knows I don't wish for anything like this but reasoning that this hasn't happened because we are killing them all in Iraq dosen't wash with me. After seeing the manipulation of the United States people by the gouv. on this trans Texas Highway and near ZERO illegal alien enforcement after all the promises of a wall and and all that stuff, I'm questioning more and more what we've been told.

I lived through Vietnam and remember the furvor over defeating communism or allowing it to spread, I lost childhood friends in Vietnam and for WHAT, so we could leave after fighting and bombing people for 10 years and let the country be communist after 2-5 million Vietnamese civilians and 58,148 American soldiers were killed , their average age was 23 years old btw.

I'm not going to draw comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam other than both seem to me to be wasted wars base on false information fed to the American public. What other info are we being fed by the gouv. that's false? I question it all now days if it dosen't seem reasonable. When you really examine a lot of things, you find more and more that look like lies.

Fuel Shortages, UFO's, Trans Texas Highway, Depleted Uranium, Agent Orange, The War on Drugs, Gulf War Illness, Republicans being conservative.


I'm just fucking fed up with all of it.

[Vertnut]

You mean to tell me Akmid and Karame can't figure a way to a Mexico airport through England and cross an almost open border to begin a killing spree on Americans. Just the fact that this hasn't happened seems to show the threat of terrorists in the Muslim world must be blown out of proportion. God knows I don't wish for anything like this but reasoning that this hasn't happened because we are killing them all in Iraq dosen't wash with me. After seeing the manipulation of the United States people by the gouv. on this trans Texas Highway and near ZERO illegal alien enforcement after all the promises of a wall and and all that stuff, I'm questioning more and more what we've been told.

I lived through Vietnam and remember the furvor over defeating communism or allowing it to spread, I lost childhood friends in Vietnam and for WHAT, so we could leave after fighting and bombing people for 10 years and let the country be communist after 2-5 million Vietnamese civilians and 58,148 American soldiers were killed , their average age was 23 years old btw.

I'm not going to draw comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam other than both seem to me to be wasted wars base on false information fed to the American public. What other info are we being fed by the gouv. that's false? I question it all now days if it dosen't seem reasonable. When you really examine a lot of things, you find more and more that look like lies.

Fuel Shortages, UFO's, Trans Texas Highway, Depleted Uranium, Agent Orange, The War on Drugs, Gulf War Illness, Republicans being conservative.


I'm just fucking fed up with all of it.
Nothing has happened since 9/11, and that's all we have to go by...

[01WhiteCobra]

You mean to tell me Akmid and Karame can't figure a way to a Mexico airport through England and cross an almost open border to begin a killing spree on Americans. Just the fact that this hasn't happened seems to show the threat of terrorists in the Muslim world must be blown out of proportion. God knows I don't wish for anything like this but reasoning that this hasn't happened because we are killing them all in Iraq dosen't wash with me. After seeing the manipulation of the United States people by the gouv. on this trans Texas Highway and near ZERO illegal alien enforcement after all the promises of a wall and and all that stuff, I'm questioning more and more what we've been told.

I lived through Vietnam and remember the furvor over defeating communism or allowing it to spread, I lost childhood friends in Vietnam and for WHAT, so we could leave after fighting and bombing people for 10 years and let the country be communist after 2-5 million Vietnamese civilians and 58,148 American soldiers were killed , their average age was 23 years old btw.

I'm not going to draw comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam other than both seem to me to be wasted wars base on false information fed to the American public. What other info are we being fed by the gouv. that's false? I question it all now days if it dosen't seem reasonable. When you really examine a lot of things, you find more and more that look like lies.

Fuel Shortages, UFO's, Trans Texas Highway, Depleted Uranium, Agent Orange, The War on Drugs, Gulf War Illness, Republicans being conservative.


I'm just fucking fed up with all of it.


Dude, seriously, it ain't that bad.

[jyro]

Nothing has happened since 9/11, and that's all we have to go by...


I'm extremely glad nothing has happened and at one time I praised President Bush for that result. After seeing how laim he is on border issues, immigration, and seeing him work with Democrats and almost no vetos of any spending for almost 7 years when lots of bills were full of pork he could have stopped, I can't in all honesty place the credit for no attacks in his court. One other possibility is that the threat is overblown to achieve support from the public to continue the war. I firmly hope that this war isn't for nought and we haven't been lied to about it's purpose of changing the Middle East so democraacy can spread.

[Vertnut]

I'm extremely glad nothing has happened and at one time I praised President Bush for that result. After seeing how laim he is on border issues, immigration, and seeing him work with Democrats and almost no vetos of any spending for almost 7 years when lots of bills were full of pork he could have stopped, I can't in all honesty place the credit for no attacks in his court. One other possibility is that the threat is overblown to achieve support from the public to continue the war. I firmly hope that this war isn't for nought and we haven't been lied to about it's purpose of changing the Middle East so democraacy can spread.
EVERYONE IN ANY KIND OF POWER, is lame on the borders. It's utterly rediculous, but alas, Bush only "shares" the burden of that debacle.

[01WhiteCobra]

EVERYONE IN ANY KIND OF POWER, is lame on the borders. It's utterly rediculous, but alas, Bush only "shares" the burden of that debacle.

X2

[black01gt]

Dude, seriously, it ain't that bad.
I think that's what jyro's saying. The terrorist threat ain't that bad. What's happening to us during the distraction by it...is.