Iranian President's public spanking

[White trash wagon]

Ahmadinejad Embarrassed by Ayatollah on Gas Legislation
Tuesday, January 22, 2008


Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was publicly humiliated Monday when Iran's supreme leader smacked down the president's decision not to implement a law supplying natural gas to remote villages.


The move by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei came amid rising dissatisfaction with the president’s performance. Ahmadinejad's popularity has plummeted amid rising food prices and deaths due to gas cuts during a particularly harsh winter.


In response to a request by the conservative-dominated parliament, Khamenei ordered the president to implement a law spending $1 billion from the Currency Reserve Fund to supply gas to villages after he balked for budgetary reasons.


“All legal legislation that has gone through (the required) procedures stipulated in the constitution is binding for all branches of power,” Parliamentary Speaker Gholam Ali Haddad Adel quoted the supreme leader as saying in a statement.


Haddad Adel called Ahmadinejad’s refusal to implement the law “surprising” and said his appeal to Khamenei was aimed at “defending the dignity of the legislature.” His comments, which were broadcast live on state-run radio, prompted chants of “well done” from the chamber.


Ahmadinejad was elected in 2005 on a populist agenda promising to bring oil revenues to every family, eradicate poverty and tackle unemployment. He now faces increasing criticism for failing to meet those promises.


Iran has the second largest natural gas reservoir of the world but its supply network has been overwhelmed by high demand. Both reformists and conservatives are increasingly asking the president why Iranians are dying from the cold while sitting on the massive gas fields.


As much as 22 inches of snow fell in areas of northern and central Iran in early January, the heaviest snowfall in more than a decade. Local media have reported 64 cold-related deaths this winter and say gas cuts are to blame.


State Inspection Organization chief, Mohammad Niazi, said Monday that Ahmadinejad’s administration ignored suggestions to set aside gas supplies in case of an emergency, the official IRNA news agency reported Monday.


“Earlier, (we) had warned executive officials about saving fuel but unfortunately warnings were not heeded ... there is no strategy for gas supply in the country,” he said.


Ahmadinejad, who portrayed himself as a champion of the poor when he swept to power, is being challenged not only by reformers but by the same conservatives who paved the way for his victory in 2005.


Even conservatives say Ahmadinejad has concentrated too much on fiery, anti-U.S. speeches and not enough on the economy — and they have become more aggressive in calling him to account.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324576,00.html

[GT Dan]

I cant wait to see that country implode...

[Paladin]

I cant wait to see that country implode...

That shithole of a country has always been like this. It seems they like it all f'd up.

[Sgt Beavis]

I cant wait to see that country implode...

Sorry, just not going to happen anytime soon. However I suspect Ahmadinejad's days are numbered. He has been ticking off the mullahs and the Ayatollah for the last few years. They didn't want this nuclear showdown with the US. They have been irate on the handling of their economy and the failure to get a gasoline refinery. Surprisingly they haven't been totally on board with the religiously conservative bent that Ahmadinejad has been on in Tehran.

Now that the nuke crisis is over for Iran, I think they'll start to move to force him out. This could very likely be the first step.

[mikeb]

Even conservatives say Ahmadinejad has concentrated too much on fiery, anti-U.S. speeches and not enough on the economy — and they have become more aggressive in calling him to account.


LOL.... I see that the US is not the only place where politicians quickly forget the platforms and promises they made after winning the election.

[Zarathustra]

LOL.... I see that the US is not the only place where politicians quickly forget the platforms and promises they made after winning the election.

Good point...

There was so much spin and so many obvious ploys to shape popular opinion in that article I needed not guess who it was written by, but alas, once i reached the bottom, my preconceived notions were true. Fox news is the aorta of misinformation in the body of the media, most of that is simply not true and spun so hard I'm still fucking dizzy! The first two posters in here clearly know not of what they speak, and only further determines the amount of misinformation people are actually willing to take.

What makes you think Iran will implode, GT Dan? There's a reason that country has been there and survived since ages before christ...

[Denny]

Good point...

There was so much spin and so many obvious ploys to shape popular opinion in that article I needed not guess who it was written by, but alas, once i reached the bottom, my preconceived notions were true. Fox news is the aorta of misinformation in the body of the media, most of that is simply not true and spun so hard I'm still fucking dizzy! The first two posters in here clearly know not of what they speak, and only further determines the amount of misinformation people are actually willing to take.

What makes you think Iran will implode, GT Dan? There's a reason that country has been there and survived since ages before christ...
Because they've never been so ignorant as to go up against a superior nation like the US.

Funny, you say the media (FOX especially) is spinning and twisting the story when it points out flaws in your precious leader. I knew I just had to wait a while to see you come to his defense in one way or another in this thread.

[Mr Majestyk]

The country known as Iran may have "been there and survived since ages before Christ" but has hardly flourished during all that time. Iran today is not Persia, but rather has degenerated into a largely irrelevant player on the world stage.

[GT Dan]

What makes you think Iran will implode, GT Dan? There's a reason that country has been there and survived since ages before christ...

UN Sanctions
30 percent unemployment
30 percent inflation
Per capita income is lower than it was 30 years ago
Mismanagement of their energy reserves
Dwindling Energy exports. They cant meet export quotas set by OPEC
Any Iranian with an education leaves the country
Their military is obsolete
They censor any media outlet that says anything contrary to the mullahs
They treat animals better than women

Unfortunately, they still think we live in the "ages before christ."

[Zarathustra]

The list of shit wrong with the States would make that weakly conjured list with absolutely ZERO evidence look like a far cry from an 'imploding' country.

[AL P]

The list of shit wrong with the States would make that weakly conjured list with absolutely ZERO evidence look like a far cry from an 'imploding' country.

Please. Iran is fucked up. To try and marginalize that by pointing out the minor problems we have here is laughable. For god's sake you can't even hold hands with some chick in public over there without looking over your shoulder for the fucking police. There is plenty of evidence of this nonsense on blogs written by students over there, do a search.

[Zarathustra]

Please. Iran is fucked up. To try and marginalize that by pointing out the minor problems we have here is laughable. For god's sake you can't even hold hands with some chick in public over there without looking over your shoulder for the fucking police. There is plenty of evidence of this nonsense on blogs written by students over there, do a search.

I'm not arguing on the truth value of the statements made, every country has their own social problems. 'Ethical' red tape prevents us from saving millions of lives with embryonic stem cells but we can't do that because there's lives at stake. But then again pointless wars are a commonplace in our modern time. The problems we have here are anything but minor, you and I both know that. Iran is fucked up, but so is every other country when looking upon their respective situations with this tarnished lens of ethnocentricism.

[Paladin]

The list of shit wrong with the States would make that weakly conjured list with absolutely ZERO evidence look like a far cry from an 'imploding' country.

Please tell us what country is better than the United States and why?

[wesman]

I cant wait to see that country implode...


implode......explode...whichever comes first!!! :D


--wes

[Zarathustra]

Please tell us what country is better than the United States and why?

Why?

That's completely irrelevant.

[Paladin]

Why?

That's completely irrelevant.

You compared Iran's problems from the list and implied the United States was just as bad or even worse. I wanted you to explain it by giving the country that was best in your mind and why. If I had been asked the same question, I could have answered or I would not have made that statement. I can point out lots of reasons why the United States is the best country in the world, so obviously you can give us lots of reasons why your choice is the best, right? Or do you just throw stupid shit out there never to be held accountable for it?

[GT Dan]

The list of shit wrong with the States would make that weakly conjured list with absolutely ZERO evidence look like a far cry from an 'imploding' country.

You asked me why I thought Iran would implode, I gave you a list of reasons.

Its not a weakly conjured list, they are documented problems within the country of Iran.

I'm sick and tired of stupid motherfuckers like you who would rather point at the US instead of admitting the problems in their own "motherland."

You dont like living here, move the fuck back to Iran and enjoy the Freedoms you have there...

NEXT...

[GT Dan]

implode......explode...whichever comes first!!! :D


--wes

no shit, I'll take either... I dont know which would be better.... one nuke to wipe the whole place out or a bunch of daisy cutters making them run around trying to get away... :cool:

[Zarathustra]

You asked me why I thought Iran would implode, I gave you a list of reasons.

Its not a weakly conjured list, they are documented problems within the country of Iran.

I'm sick and tired of stupid motherfuckers like you who would rather point at the US instead of admitting the problems in their own "motherland."

You dont like living here, move the fuck back to Iran and enjoy the Freedoms you have there...

NEXT...

Documented problems, huh? hahahaha You mean reported, by your precious nightly news? How on earth would you know ANYTHING about Iran if it wasn't for the news you receive via your favorite talking head? I'm sick and tired of mother fuckers like YOU, who know absolutely nothing about the world around them, and move to better themselves by belittling people that aren't as 'white' as them. It's funny you talk like it's your America to throw me out of, I was born here, so I'm just as american as you. Typical american mentality taking the offensive right off the bat, acting like you belong here and I don't. You don't deserve to be here any more than I do, cunt. I am Persian, but I'm not from Iran, I was born in Texas, so you can quit talking to me like I'm some exchange student on a temporary visa.

I was simply pointing out the fact that your previous post has no premise for argument and no factual information to back it up. You just quoted news stations telling you the about the 'state' of Iran. I never said I disliked living in America, only pointed out the NUMEROUS fallacies and groupspeak in the article, and to squash your ignorant bullshit posts and ricicule you for your violent lack of intelligence, logic, reason and validity. You speak only of things you have heard, not of what you have seen. Your 'knowledge' is just the exact opposite, misinformation fed to you by people you don't even know. The very thoughthood of your thoughs come into question when you post-- Iran is actually a flourishing country, DESPITE economic sanctions that have been in place for over a quarter century. China gives them everything they'll ever need. All the while with a state of mind of the older crowd that's not far off from the one here in the States. You really don't know what you're talkin about man, so please stop thinking you do.

[Mr Majestyk]

Don't know about that - I know I for one deserve to be here more than you, FudgePecker, 'cause you're a fag, and fags will forever be second-class citizens both here and in Iran. You know nothing of Iran firsthand, "Pecker, still living with mommie and daddy like you do. Since you foolishly state that "China gives them everything they'll ever need" (Thus Spoke FudgePecker LOL), you only support our position that Iran has been reduced to a beggar state who must rely on scraps and handouts from other nations to survive.

Dumbass fag.

[GT Dan]

Documented problems, huh? hahahaha You mean reported, by your precious nightly news? How on earth would you know ANYTHING about Iran if it wasn't for the news you receive via your favorite talking head? I'm sick and tired of mother fuckers like YOU, who know absolutely nothing about the world around them, and move to better themselves by belittling people that aren't as 'white' as them. It's funny you talk like it's your America to throw me out of, I was born here, so I'm just as american as you. Typical american mentality taking the offensive right off the bat, acting like you belong here and I don't. You don't deserve to be here any more than I do, cunt. I am Persian, but I'm not from Iran, I was born in Texas, so you can quit talking to me like I'm some exchange student on a temporary visa.

I was simply pointing out the fact that your previous post has no premise for argument and no factual information to back it up. You just quoted news stations telling you the about the 'state' of Iran. I never said I disliked living in America, only pointed out the NUMEROUS fallacies and groupspeak in the article, and to squash your ignorant bullshit posts and ricicule you for your violent lack of intelligence, logic, reason and validity. You speak only of things you have heard, not of what you have seen. Your 'knowledge' is just the exact opposite, misinformation fed to you by people you don't even know. The very thoughthood of your thoughs come into question when you post-- Iran is actually a flourishing country, DESPITE economic sanctions that have been in place for over a quarter century. China gives them everything they'll ever need. All the while with a state of mind of the older crowd that's not far off from the one here in the States. You really don't know what you're talkin about man, so please stop thinking you do.

You'll never be as American as I am. You said it yourself, your "persian"... lmao... no one gives a fuck what you are... and I absolutely agree, most exchange students understand what America is all about and what those stupid motherfuckers in Iran are all about... you're a funny little man who makes my arguments for me...

You can make excuses and ignore the facts all you want... You claim the Iranian economy is flourishing... I'm supposed to take your word for it? What is your premise for this argument? Where is YOUR factual information to back it up?

Go say your prayers little man, and leave the worlds decisions to the adults...

[AL P]

I'm not arguing on the truth value of the statements made, every country has their own social problems. 'Ethical' red tape prevents us from saving millions of lives with embryonic stem cells but we can't do that because there's lives at stake. But then again pointless wars are a commonplace in our modern time. The problems we have here are anything but minor, you and I both know that. Iran is fucked up, but so is every other country when looking upon their respective situations with this tarnished lens of ethnocentricism.

Sorry but you'll never convince me that the problems we have are worse than the problems of a state dominated by religious totalitarianism. You prove this yourself through your choice of residence. I don't blame you, I like freedom, I wouldn't want to live there either.

[VetEtr]

Documented problems, huh? hahahaha You mean reported, by your precious nightly news? How on earth would you know ANYTHING about Iran if it wasn't for the news you receive via your favorite talking head? I'm sick and tired of mother fuckers like YOU, who know absolutely nothing about the world around them, and move to better themselves by belittling people that aren't as 'white' as them. It's funny you talk like it's your America to throw me out of, I was born here, so I'm just as american as you. Typical american mentality taking the offensive right off the bat, acting like you belong here and I don't. You don't deserve to be here any more than I do, cunt. I am Persian, but I'm not from Iran, I was born in Texas, so you can quit talking to me like I'm some exchange student on a temporary visa.

I was simply pointing out the fact that your previous post has no premise for argument and no factual information to back it up. You just quoted news stations telling you the about the 'state' of Iran. I never said I disliked living in America, only pointed out the NUMEROUS fallacies and groupspeak in the article, and to squash your ignorant bullshit posts and ricicule you for your violent lack of intelligence, logic, reason and validity. You speak only of things you have heard, not of what you have seen. Your 'knowledge' is just the exact opposite, misinformation fed to you by people you don't even know. The very thoughthood of your thoughs come into question when you post-- Iran is actually a flourishing country, DESPITE economic sanctions that have been in place for over a quarter century. China gives them everything they'll ever need. All the while with a state of mind of the older crowd that's not far off from the one here in the States. You really don't know what you're talkin about man, so please stop thinking you do.
Wow. You are REALLY stupid.

BTW, if you were born in Texas, what makes you more of an authority on Iran than anyone else here?

[Denny]

Wow. You are REALLY stupid.

BTW, if you were born in Texas, what makes you more of an authority on Iran than anyone else here?
Because his mom guzzled Iranian jizz.

[Zarathustra]

You'll never be as American as I am. You said it yourself, your "persian"... lmao... no one gives a fuck what you are... and I absolutely agree, most exchange students understand what America is all about and what those stupid motherfuckers in Iran are all about... you're a funny little man who makes my arguments for me...

You can make excuses and ignore the facts all you want... You claim the Iranian economy is flourishing... I'm supposed to take your word for it? What is your premise for this argument? Where is YOUR factual information to back it up?

Go say your prayers little man, and leave the worlds decisions to the adults...

That's where you're wrong, son. Worlds decisions....hahahahahahaha

[Mr Majestyk]

Thus Giggled FudgePecker

[GT Dan]

That's where you're wrong, son. Worlds decisions....hahahahahahaha

Still havent seen any facts to back up your opinion that the economy in iran is flourishing or that the country isn't on its way to imploding...

[AL P]

Iran has double digit CPI growth and double digit interest rates. That's about the same as the early 80s here in the states. I don't know anyone who would define that as "good" unless they really had no idea what they were talking about.

[Paladin]

Why?

That's completely irrelevant.

Your question was answered in post 16. Are you going to answer or be a bitch and ignore it?

[GT Dan]

Your question was answered in post 16. Are you going to answer or be a bitch and ignore it?

He's gonna be a bitch... or in his culture, I think they call them dogs or swine...

[Zarathustra]

He's gonna be a bitch... or in his culture, I think they call them dogs or swine...

My culture, that's another funny, you're just a funny guy aren't you? You don't know a thing about my culture aside of what you've heard and 'believe' to be true. Ignorant waste, go on and play with the other sheep...

[exlude]

It's sad when one gets so caught up in trying to think against the grain that they fall sucker for the sort of shit Zara does. His "enlightenment" is little more than him being hearded by a different shepard.

Unfortunately, Zara isn't just ignorant. That can be fixed. He's stupid, which can't. Compounding his idiocy is his borderline egomaniacal personality, neither of which are good for the other. His ego let's him profess his stupidity with resounding guile. His stupidity let's him buy into what he's saying and fuels his ego. Tough place to be in reality, but not so much in his head.

[GT Dan]

lmao... is the little persian boy getting mad... it's funny you are telling me to play with the other sheep... move over and I will.... fuck you swine boy... you haven't answered any of the questions in this thread.... why? because you cant... you don't know shit about Iran...

You want everyone to think you are some kind of authority on the middle east... truth is, you're just a dumb ass white boy with a sand ninja father who was born in Texas and is desperate for attention...

everyone stand up and clap for Zarathustra... We're impressed with your ability to stir up shit.... you've been a good boy but you can leave now... its time for the adults to discuss global politics...

[Zarathustra]

lmao... is the little persian boy getting mad... it's funny you are telling me to play with the other sheep... move over and I will.... fuck you swine boy... you haven't answered any of the questions in this thread.... why? because you cant... you don't know shit about Iran...

You want everyone to think you are some kind of authority on the middle east... truth is, you're just a dumb ass white boy with a sand ninja father who was born in Texas and is desperate for attention...

everyone stand up and clap for Zarathustra... We're impressed with your ability to stir up shit.... you've been a good boy but you can leave now... its time for the adults to discuss global politics...

hahahahahahahahahahaha, you should be a comedian.

You guys love me.

'Fuck YOU, white boy!'

hahahahahahahahaha

Your concept of 'adults' duscussing 'global politics' amounts to a bunch of ignorant americana being spewed from less than intelligent drones that refer to themselves as adults like it's some crowning triumphant achievement based on your fucking age. Millions of people are lost all throughout life, like I said earlier, ignorance is bliss. And you guys are some bliss havin' motherfuckers. You sorry excuses for members of this society need to fucking wake up, open your eyes, and look around, this place is violently different from how the media has shaped your opinions and views. Fucking blind, i tell you.

Oh yea, and eat shit, you don't know me.

[Zarathustra]

It's sad when one gets so caught up in trying to think against the grain that they fall sucker for the sort of shit Zara does. His "enlightenment" is little more than him being hearded by a different shepard.

Unfortunately, Zara isn't just ignorant. That can be fixed. He's stupid, which can't. Compounding his idiocy is his borderline egomaniacal personality, neither of which are good for the other. His ego let's him profess his stupidity with resounding guile. His stupidity let's him buy into what he's saying and fuels his ego. Tough place to be in reality, but not so much in his head.

You dun gots me alll figerd out, thur boss!

Although i would've worded it differently.

I have yet to engage in any real discourse with you, as we can't keep from dissing eachother, regardless of who started it. But i've got a feeling you're actually worth talking to, unlike Danny boy...

You seem to be remotely capable of rationally based discourse with a final goal of at least getting closer to the truth. At times I may seem fanatical, but that's just the way I am, I speak of higher ideals and fundamentals not necessarily easily contemplated by everyone, so it's hard to understand what i'm trying to profess right off the bat. I'm alright with that, it's not easy being me :D

[Paladin]

It's sad when one gets so caught up in trying to think against the grain that they fall sucker for the sort of shit Zara does. His "enlightenment" is little more than him being hearded by a different shepard.

Unfortunately, Zara isn't just ignorant. That can be fixed. He's stupid, which can't. Compounding his idiocy is his borderline egomaniacal personality, neither of which are good for the other. His ego let's him profess his stupidity with resounding guile. His stupidity let's him buy into what he's saying and fuels his ego. Tough place to be in reality, but not so much in his head.

I'm glad we made nice dude. You're brutal!

[Paladin]

He's gonna be a bitch... or in his culture, I think they call them dogs or swine...

I figured as much, but I wanted to go on record and point it out.

[Mustangman_2000]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad needs to abdicate his position. He is counter-productive to the prosperity and stability of Iran, not too mention being an annoying thorn in the side of the U.S.

However, their culture is repugnant and it's hard to even care.

[Strychnine]

However, their culture is repugnant and it's hard to even care.


Careful, Zoroaster might go on a sesquipedalian (see, I can do it too!) tirade about how Iran is so incredibly awesome that even he himself could not handle living there... you know, with out being killed by the overwhelming awesomeness of it all.

[Stang Seller]

I cant wait to see that country implode...

I hope you're referring to the government. Just like America is about to implode, it's happening as we speak.

That shithole of a country has always been like this. It seems they like it all f'd up.

No it hasn't. It's been like this for 29 years.

The country known as Iran may have "been there and survived since ages before Christ" but has hardly flourished during all that time. Iran today is not Persia, but rather has degenerated into a largely irrelevant player on the world stage.

You know very well that Iran is not irrelevant on the world stage. They make an absolutely huge impact in one of the most important areas of the world, why else would the US spend so much money to "stabilize" the region? Why else would the US sit down and talk to them about Iraq? Iran hasn't flourished? Please, review the list of accomplishments and inventions that came from Iran! You and your friends may try to downplay her accomplishments, but the fact of the matter is that you cannot change history.
Iran today is Persia, it always has been. My friend, you need to realize that you outsiders called it Persia. Her name has ALWAYS been Iran.
Iran has degenerated over the last 30 years, but what is 30 years in a span of thousands? What has happened in the last 30 years will be rectified, just like when we were under the oppressive thumb of the Arab invaders we will pull out of this and move on and up again. Change is coming, and hopefully very soon. Forty years ago, your parents viewed our country as something great and a good friend. Hopefully, in another forty years the dirty mullah's will be gone and we will have our wonderful Monarchy back.
SS

[Zarathustra]

I hope you're referring to the government. Just like America is about to implode, it's happening as we speak.



No it hasn't. It's been like this for 29 years.



You know very well that Iran is not irrelevant on the world stage. They make an absolutely huge impact in one of the most important areas of the world, why else would the US spend so much money to "stabilize" the region? Why else would the US sit down and talk to them about Iraq? Iran hasn't flourished? Please, review the list of accomplishments and inventions that came from Iran! You and your friends may try to downplay her accomplishments, but the fact of the matter is that you cannot change history.
Iran today is Persia, it always has been. My friend, you need to realize that you outsiders called it Persia. Her name has ALWAYS been Iran.
Iran has degenerated over the last 30 years, but what is 30 years in a span of thousands? What has happened in the last 30 years will be rectified, just like when we were under the oppressive thumb of the Arab invaders we will pull out of this and move on and up again. Change is coming, and hopefully very soon. Forty years ago, your parents viewed our country as something great and a good friend. Hopefully, in another forty years the dirty mullah's will be gone and we will have our wonderful Monarchy back.
SS

Good to see you back, homie...

[Mr Majestyk]

You know very well that Iran is not irrelevant on the world stage. They make an absolutely huge impact in one of the most important areas of the world, why else would the US spend so much money to "stabilize" the region? Why else would the US sit down and talk to them about Iraq? Iran hasn't flourished? Please, review the list of accomplishments and inventions that came from Iran! You and your friends may try to downplay her accomplishments, but the fact of the matter is that you cannot change history.
Iran today is Persia, it always has been. My friend, you need to realize that you outsiders called it Persia. Her name has ALWAYS been Iran.
Iran has degenerated over the last 30 years, but what is 30 years in a span of thousands? What has happened in the last 30 years will be rectified, just like when we were under the oppressive thumb of the Arab invaders we will pull out of this and move on and up again. Change is coming, and hopefully very soon. Forty years ago, your parents viewed our country as something great and a good friend. Hopefully, in another forty years the dirty mullah's will be gone and we will have our wonderful Monarchy back.
SS

I defer to a man who better knows his country's history and place in the world. Also, welcome back SS.

[Zarathustra]

I defer to a man who better knows his country's history and place in the world. Also, welcome back SS.

I'm with you there, except for the same holds true for our 'president'.

[Stang Seller]

I defer to a man who better knows his country's history and place in the world. Also, welcome back SS.
Thanks. I dunno if it's good to be back yet :D
SS

[Paladin]

No it hasn't. It's been like this for 29 years.

SS

You mean they just started wiping their asses with their left hand 29 years ago? I didn't know they were a major industrial power from the hard work of their people up until 29 years ago. I didn't know they just started depending upon the oil that just happened to be under their sand 29 years ago. I didn't know they just started being religious fanatics 29 years ago. :confused:

[Stang Seller]

You mean they just started wiping their asses with their left hand 29 years ago? I didn't know they were a major industrial power from the hard work of their people up until 29 years ago. I didn't know they just started depending upon the oil that just happened to be under their sand 29 years ago. I didn't know they just started being religious fanatics 29 years ago. :confused:
Wow, good comeback. Pathetic.
SS

[AL P]

Calling 19% inflation "flourishing" is one way to put it I guess. In most of the civilized world we call that an impending economic meltdown. You can bet your ass the president is going to have a hard time getting re-elected but everyone knows that means very little since the mullahs dictate the nuclear policy.

[Paladin]

Wow, good comeback. Pathetic.
SS

Yep, so is your lack of response. Pathetic.

90

[MustangVilla]

Calling 19% inflation "flourishing" is one way to put it I guess. In most of the civilized world we call that an impending economic meltdown. You can bet your ass the president is going to have a hard time getting re-elected but everyone knows that means very little since the mullahs dictate the nuclear policy.

The one thing about run-a-way inflation is that you can payoff today's debt with cheaper dollars tomorrow. My hippie/pot-smoking economics professor gave that advice to me.http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Stang Seller]

Yep, so is your lack of response. Pathetic.

90
You really want me to address your stupid, typically racist, and uninformed 'wipe your ass with your left hand' comment?
They were a major industrial power up until 29 years ago.
They were depending on that oil under their sand many years before that, just like your nation is dependent upon oil for much longer than that. I dont understand why you can look through and say "HA! Your country is dependent on oil revenues!" like it's a bad thing, when you know full well that your country is even more dependent on purchasing or stealing that very same oil!
And they did start becoming religious fanatics 29 years ago. Why dont you go back and do some research, see how many Islamic terrorist organizations were funded by Iran before the revolution?
How is that for addressing your questions?
SS

[AL P]

The one thing about run-a-way inflation is that you can payoff today's debt with cheaper dollars tomorrow. My hippie/pot-smoking economics professor gave that advice to me.http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

That reminds me of this crack/meth head that used to hang out with all the car guys up in Denton. He once said "It's good to be addicted to crack because that way you know where all your money is going..."

[Paladin]

You really want me to address your stupid, typically racist, and uninformed 'wipe your ass with your left hand' comment?
They were a major industrial power up until 29 years ago.

Please let me know what "major industry" that Iran had 29 years ago that is now gone? Did they build planes and sell them to other countries? Did they build submarines? Cars? Trucks? Please use this as an oppurtunity to enlighten my racist, stupid self.

BTW, why did you ignore the wiping your ass comment, is it true or not?

They were depending on that oil under their sand many years before that, just like your nation is dependent upon oil for much longer than that.

I know they were depending upon that oil. That was my point, no need to reiterate it.

They were depending upon the oil then, they are now, and they will forever. That's all they have.

I dont understand why you can look through and say "HA! Your country is dependent on oil revenues!" like it's a bad thing, when you know full well that your country is even more dependent on purchasing or stealing that very same oil!

Please explain to all of us terrible Americans how we have stolen your countries oil?

Once again, you missed my point. You tried to insinuate your country had more than oil for revenue over 29 years ago. It's not a bad thing your country only has oil, but it is the truth, isn't it?

And they did start becoming religious fanatics 29 years ago. Why dont you go back and do some research, see how many Islamic terrorist organizations were funded by Iran before the revolution?
How is that for addressing your questions?
SS

Yeah, up until the terrorists there were never any religious based wars or no leaders of your country who were religious leaders. Yeah, religion just came into power 20 years ago in Iran, didn't it?

You either aren't Iranian/Persian or you slept during history class. LOL

[Paladin]

That reminds me of this crack/meth head that used to hang out with all the car guys up in Denton. He once said "It's good to be addicted to crack because that way you know where all your money is going..."

"Crack logic", it is some funny stuff!

[Stang Seller]

Please let me know what "major industry" that Iran had 29 years ago that is now gone? Did they build planes and sell them to other countries? Did they build submarines? Cars? Trucks? Please use this as an oppurtunity to enlighten my racist, stupid self.
Iran was building cars based on the Hillman Hunter. Iran had a nuclear program. Iran was building a petrochemical plant before the revolution, this was something the Carter admin was not very happy about. Oil and natural gas. It's not much, but it is something. Iran was using it's wealth acquired from it's natural resources to expand during the 60's and 70's, but all that was either wiped out or brought to a standstill due to the revolution.

BTW, why did you ignore the wiping your ass comment, is it true or not?
It is not true, the fact that you might actually believe it to be shows your true colours if nothing else does. It's such a ridiculous comment it doesn't deserve to be addressed.



I know they were depending upon that oil. That was my point, no need to reiterate it.

They were depending upon the oil then, they are now, andf they will forever. That's all they have.
Of course, but you make it seem like we're the only ones dependent on that oil. That is what you believe, that is fine with me. We flourished before the oil, and we will flourish after that oil. Remember, we were there long before your people showed up and will be there long after you're gone.


Please explain to all of us terrible Americans how we have stolen your countries oil?
I didn't say you stole our oil, but you are stealing oil. Look next door, at your "liberation" of the Iraqi people. :rolleyes:

Once again, you misse my point. You tried to insinuate your country had more than oil for revenue over 29 years ago. It's not a bad thing your country only has oil, but it is the truth, isn't it?
I did no such thing, I merely stated that Iran had more than you insinuated she had. But, currently the only thing my country has IS oil. There is no denying that!


yeah, up until the terrorists there were never any religious based wars or no leaders of your country who were religious leaders. Yeah, religion just came into power 20 years ago in iran, didn't it?

You either aren't Iranian/Persian or you slept during history class. LOL

I never said that. Don't misconstrue my point or twist my words. There was no reference to religious wars or anything of that nature. Iranians never were religious fanatics, but there is a small percentage today who are. Just like in your nation, in France, all over the world! We didn't have religious fanatics in control of the government until 29 years ago. You have a religious fanatic in the government today, he's just not AS crazy as the mullahs in my nation but he is just as bad. Look at what he and cronies have done to your once mighty nation!
SS

[AL P]

You have a religious fanatic in the government today, he's just not AS crazy as the mullahs in my nation but he is just as bad. Look at what he and cronies have done to your once mighty nation!
SS

Admit it, you are high right now as you are typing this, it is the only way this comparison would even make sense. Young people in Iran can't even make a display of affection in public without getting beat by the police, so give us all a break with your bullshit comparison. It's a religiously based totalitarian society you moron, it's not even close.

[Zarathustra]

Admit it, you are high right now as you are typing this, it is the only way this comparison would even make sense. Young people in Iran can't even make a display of affection in public without getting beat by the police, so give us all a break with your bullshit comparison. It's a religiously based totalitarian society you moron, it's not even close.

Might not be close today, but SEVERAL steps have been taken down that road in the last 2 presidential terms that will inevitably hamper our ability to think freely. It is dangerously close to getting close and you of all people should be able to see that.

Let's see some counterexample arguments, not just accusations of lack of sobriety and outright shunning of opinions. Intolerance only breeds more intolerance.

Religious oligarchy is more like it.

[Zarathustra]

"Crack logic", it is some funny stuff!

I can't believe you're still around here. I figured you would've been laughed off.

You're REALLY bad at forming good arguments, BTW.

Shame on you for portraying yourself as an adult and then arguing like a 9 yr. old.

[AL P]

Might not be close today, but SEVERAL steps have been taken down that road in the last 2 presidential terms that will inevitably hamper our ability to think freely. It is dangerously close to getting close and you of all people should be able to see that.

Let's see some counterexample arguments, not just accusations of lack of sobriety and outright shunning of opinions. Intolerance only breeds more intolerance.

Religious oligarchy is more like it.

I'd agree with you on steps toward it here in our country. But on that note, I think that you and SS are too young to realize a few things. I don't mean a lack of intelligence but a lack of experience. Your political experience has been primarily under the Bush administration, given your age. And you've been fed this bill of goods about how this administration has done X,Y and Z. Well, guess what, ANY administration in office does things to erode our freedoms. During Clinton's administration law enforcement could seize property and sell it at auction without probable cause for years. Eventually Clinton had to reform this law due to widespread abuse. But that still happened on his watch. And I'm not bashing Clinton, I thought he was "OK" as a president (outside of dishonoring the office with his blow jobs). My point is that in the future you are going to see that it's not JUST Bush that does this, it's our entire government that systematically destroys our rights over time. IMO if you blame one person you are short sighted.

As for Iran. Come on now. We all know how people are punished for crimes over there. Sharia law and such. The way misogynistic ideas fit into crime and punishment. Stonings. Death penalties for trivial social trangressions. How can anyone say that these things don't represent religious opression? How can having police who enforce someone else's ideas of morality, a state censored media and supression of free thinking NOT be totalitarianism? After all, by your own admissions the mullahs aren't the majority. To compare this nonsense to how our judicial system (by no means perfect) operates trivializes what goes on over there.

[Stang Seller]

I'd agree with you on steps toward it here in our country. But on that note, I think that you and SS are too young to realize a few things. I don't mean a lack of intelligence but a lack of experience. Your political experience has been primarily under the Bush administration, given your age. And you've been fed this bill of goods about how this administration has done X,Y and Z. Well, guess what, ANY administration in office does things to erode our freedoms. During Clinton's administration law enforcement could seize property and sell it at auction without probable cause for years. Eventually Clinton had to reform this law due to widespread abuse. But that still happened on his watch. And I'm not bashing Clinton, I thought he was "OK" as a president (outside of dishonoring the office with his blow jobs). My point is that in the future you are going to see that it's not JUST Bush that does this, it's our entire government that systematically destroys our rights over time. IMO if you blame one person you are short sighted.

As for Iran. Come on now. We all know how people are punished for crimes over there. Sharia law and such. The way misogynistic ideas fit into crime and punishment. Stonings. Death penalties for trivial social trangressions. How can anyone say that these things don't represent religious opression? How can having police who enforce someone else's ideas of morality, a state censored media and supression of free thinking NOT be totalitarianism? After all, by your own admissions the mullahs aren't the majority. To compare this nonsense to how our judicial system (by no means perfect) operates trivializes what goes on over there.

You know, normally I dont respond to you but I received this response in my email inbox. I have to say that this is a well thought out and executed response. I won't delve into the problems with American governance too much, because you are aware of your slowly disintigrating liberties

In respect to Iran, who ever defended or directly compared Iran to the US? If I made a comparison, it was not of the whole system vs system! You have to understand that it's not always about the whole. The current system in Iran is retarded and I wish and pray that my people would realize the benefits of our Monarchy. And dont get me started on Monarchy vs Democracy.
Iran's current system IS totalitarianism! There is no doubt about that, and the people demonstrate against it every day. But you don't see that. You see the government staged rallies where people chant "Death to America" and "Ruin to America" and let's not forget "Death to the great satan".

Your country is still young, your people have not been through the rollercoaster of life and legend that Iran has been through. Maybe when your country becomes over run by the Russians or Chinese or whomever, and you pull out of it will your people understand life in the world. Thus far, you have been nearly uncontested but that is rapidly changing with the re-emergence of Russia and the steadily growing power of China.
SS

[AL P]

But you don't see that. You see the government staged rallies where people chant "Death to America" and "Ruin to America" and let's not forget "Death to the great satan".

SS

I've seen it in the mainstream media here. I think that you don't give the media here enough credit. A lot of people here want those students to kick the mullahs in the ass.

It sounds like I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

[Stang Seller]

I give credit where credit is due, but you have to search and look very hard to find the right kind of information. The stuff they throw at you is the negative stuff, to make you think ALL the people are anti-US and they ALL attend those crazy rallies! A lot of the time, people show up because the millionaire mullahs spend some of the money they have stolen from the country on bribing poor people to show up at these rallies! Do a search on Rafsanjani, he and his family are reported to be worth in the hundreds of millions. This guy was a BUM before the revolution!

It wouldn't be too hard to kick the mullah's ass, except all those European countries illegally trading with them and giving/receiving incentives for such activities. If people would stop trading certain things, all it would take is a small but well trained army of 5000 to storm Tehran, carry out some political assassinations and take over. The only thing holding the people of Iran back is fear of the Revolutionary Guard and Hezbollah.
SS

[jyro]

Hey guys, this is the way a conversatiion is supposed to be, no ad hominems or anything but a nice exchange, props to all!

[Paladin]

I can't believe you're still around here. I figured you would've been laughed off.

You're REALLY bad at forming good arguments, BTW.

Shame on you for portraying yourself as an adult and then arguing like a 9 yr. old.

This statement coming from you is the height of irony!

[Zarathustra]

Al, FWIW, thanks for the lack of personal attacks in this post, heavily appreciated.


I'd agree with you on steps toward it here in our country. But on that note, I think that you and SS are too young to realize a few things. I don't mean a lack of intelligence but a lack of experience. Your political experience has been primarily under the Bush administration, given your age. And you've been fed this bill of goods about how this administration has done X,Y and Z. Well, guess what, ANY administration in office does things to erode our freedoms. During Clinton's administration law enforcement could seize property and sell it at auction without probable cause for years. Eventually Clinton had to reform this law due to widespread abuse. But that still happened on his watch. And I'm not bashing Clinton, I thought he was "OK" as a president (outside of dishonoring the office with his blow jobs). My point is that in the future you are going to see that it's not JUST Bush that does this, it's our entire government that systematically destroys our rights over time. IMO if you blame one person you are short sighted.

The notion that I don't contain knowledge or insight to the happenings or social phenomena that preceded my interest in politics is wrong because I do know a great many thing about what happened before I became cognizant of politics. The only advantage you have over me or us in this field is context, as this experience derived in these situations was outlined by the context of the situation you were in. The facts and information don't just evaporate, to a certain extent the information is passed on, and as we learn, time is all but erased. Through erudition, I may know many things about the same things you do, but the fact that you were living and cognizant of political life then is what is different. This information, or rather, experience, is not necessarily directly related with age. To a certain extent I do agree with you on all other accounts in that all administrations are responsible for erosion of our rights, but I'm not the only one complaining about this administration. I do understand that other people are also responsible for the The only reason I do blame Bush for the descent into tyranny is he's the current president and he just so happens to be a complete and total failure at the job title. I am definitely not alone in this, I assure you.

As for Iran. Come on now. We all know how people are punished for crimes over there. Sharia law and such. The way misogynistic ideas fit into crime and punishment. Stonings. Death penalties for trivial social trangressions. How can anyone say that these things don't represent religious opression? How can having police who enforce someone else's ideas of morality, a state censored media and supression of free thinking NOT be totalitarianism? After all, by your own admissions the mullahs aren't the majority. To compare this nonsense to how our judicial system (by no means perfect) operates trivializes what goes on over there.

This is precisely the reason that the youth in Iran has been on the verge of revolution for the last few decades. The youth of Iran have been and will continue to push for change, but the current regime is fighting back, just as is the current regime in the states. The evangelicals are making a move in the States to fight back against science, and conserve fundamental ideological doctrines and continue centuries-outdated practices that only stand as the primary enemy of reason. The religious oppression present in Iran mirrors, if not directly, indirectly, the exact same persecution encountered by non-believers here in the states. Iran is a completely different kind of country, the oppression of dissenters and those of that ilk may very well be seen as a stepping stone in Iran's history of evolving covernments. Granted, this is a slow one, but the tortoise won, too didn't he?

Nations arrive at sovereignty in two different ways: Slowly and methodically through the mist of the historical past, and through a firey conflagration of ideas and citizens ascending to a shared philosophy. Iran is that of the former, and the US of the latter. For these reasons, iran and America are like apples and oranges, they should not be brought into comparison on social matters. Iran is well behind the States when it comes to social issues, there's no argument there. Having said that though, social problems in Iran are hardly fodder for the canon that attempts to bring down the millenia-old base upon which Iran proudly stands.

[Zarathustra]

Hey guys, this is the way a conversatiion is supposed to be, no ad hominems or anything but a nice exchange, props to all!

I'll agree.

[Paladin]

Iran was building cars based on the Hillman Hunter. Iran had a nuclear program. Iran was building a petrochemical plant before the revolution, this was something the Carter admin was not very happy about. Oil and natural gas. It's not much, but it is something. Iran was using it's wealth acquired from it's natural resources to expand during the 60's and 70's, but all that was either wiped out or brought to a standstill due to the revolution.

You're right it isn't much, and you spoke of the long list of accomplishments and inventions from Iran. Is this it?

BTW, is it a major accomplishment to buy a petrochemical plant from another country? Is it a big deal to buy a nuclear reactor from another country? If it is a big deal to buy something, does that mean I am a great automobile engineer because I bought a car? LOL

It is not true, the fact that you might actually believe it to be shows your true colours if nothing else does. It's such a ridiculous comment it doesn't deserve to be addressed.

Yeah, I guess it is embarrasing. BTW, I learned alot about Iran from my neighbor who left there 30 years ago. He is a doctor and both he and his wife were born there. They lost family in gas attacks from Saddam. Very nice people, but they are damn glad to be raising their children here instead of Iran.


Of course, but you make it seem like we're the only ones dependent on that oil. That is what you believe, that is fine with me. We flourished before the oil, and we will flourish after that oil. Remember, we were there long before your people showed up and will be there long after you're gone.

I think I and others pretty much proved you weren't flourishing until you got oil. Hell, my roots are in Ireland. I could try and argue how great Ireland is on the world stage, but then I would look just as silly as you. LOL


I didn't say you stole our oil, but you are stealing oil. Look next door, at your "liberation" of the Iraqi people. :rolleyes:

If I provide the quote in this thread where you said we stole oil, will you admit you were wrong?

I did no such thing, I merely stated that Iran had more than you insinuated she had. But, currently the only thing my country has IS oil. There is no denying that!

One again, what major industry or economic commodity did you have before oil?

I never said that. Don't misconstrue my point or twist my words. There was no reference to religious wars or anything of that nature. Iranians never were religious fanatics, but there is a small percentage today who are. Just like in your nation, in France, all over the world! We didn't have religious fanatics in control of the government until 29 years ago. You have a religious fanatic in the government today, he's just not AS crazy as the mullahs in my nation but he is just as bad. Look at what he and cronies have done to your once mighty nation!
SS

You say stuff in one post and then lie about saying it? Come on, at least go to other threads and do that. LOL

I will just leave Al's post about us having a religious fanatic as response to your ridiculous charge.

[Stang Seller]

You're right it isn't much, and you spoke of the long list of accomplishments and inventions from Iran. Is this it?

BTW, is it a major accomplishment to buy a petrochemical plant from another country? Is it a big deal to buy a nuclear reactor from another country? If it is a big deal to buy something, does that mean I am a great automobile engineer because I bought a car? LOL

Ugh, you're so narrowminded man. I just pointed out that you were not correct, and you have to continue attacking just for the slightest bit of pertinence.
Accomplishments and inventions? Do you really want a list?


Yeah, I guess it is embarrasing. BTW, I learned alot about Iran from my neighbor who left there 30 years ago. He is a doctor and both he and his wife were born there. They lost family in gas attacks from Saddam. Very nice people, but they are damn glad to be raising their children here instead of Iran.

My parents are damn glad to have raised their kids in Germany and then North America as well. We left there 28 years ago. Although my parents would have been MUCH happier to have lived under the Shah, and raise their kids at home. My uncle was tortured and imprisoned by the Islamic Republic just so they could find out info on my father. Everyone knows Iran today is a mess, are you trying to make a point or do you just get off on pointing out the obvious? You really have to lose that holier-than-thou attitude. It's gonna get you beat up one day.



I think I and others pretty much proved you weren't flourishing until you got oil. Hell, my roots are in Ireland. I could try and argue how great Ireland is on the world stage, but then I would look just as silly as you. LOL

Of course we flourished with oil, don't you think Oil is important since the Industrial Revolution? To point that out is just fucking stupid. It's like saying America would have come to where she is today without oil. That's such a dumb fucking point, I cannot see why you keep making that arguement! We've been around for thousands of years. We've invented some of the most important things in the world. We created human rights. We deserve the same respect that Greeks get for supposedly inventing Democracy. We deserve the same respect that many other historical nations get for whatever they have created. I could try and argue how my nation is superior to everyone else, but then I would look just as silly as you.



If I provide the quote in this thread where you said we stole oil, will you admit you were wrong?

Please do, and I will admit I was wrong if you can prove that I said America stole Iran's oil. Will you do the same? I highly doubt you would.



One again, what major industry or economic commodity did you have before oil?



You say stuff in one post and then lie about saying it? Come on, at least go to other threads and do that. LOL

I will just leave Al's post about us having a religious fanatic as response to your ridiculous charge.

Go back up and read what I wrote. Why you need to ask the same questions over and over again, I will never understand.
Please, instead of telling me I am a liar.... prove it! Don't just say that you can prove it, don't say that I said such and such but never back it up. Why not substantiate your own words and prove what a liar I really am??????????
And who are you talking about, being a religious fanatic?
Please do your best to address my questions and responses in the same manner as I have done. It ensures that you don't skip anything that you might not want to answer. I patiently wait for your response.
SS

[Paladin]

You really want me to address your stupid, typically racist, and uninformed 'wipe your ass with your left hand' comment?
They were a major industrial power up until 29 years ago.
They were depending on that oil under their sand many years before that, just like your nation is dependent upon oil for much longer than that. I dont understand why you can look through and say "HA! Your country is dependent on oil revenues!" like it's a bad thing, when you know full well that your country is even more dependent on purchasing or stealing that very same oil!
And they did start becoming religious fanatics 29 years ago. Why dont you go back and do some research, see how many Islamic terrorist organizations were funded by Iran before the revolution?
How is that for addressing your questions?
SS

You accused the USA of stealing oil in this post numbnuts. Please expalin who we were stealing oil from and admit you accuses us of stealing oil. Damn, you are too easy! I will address your response above when I get done laughing at you. It may take awhile! LOL

BTW, I bolded it for your ease of denial.

[Stang Seller]

You accused the USA of stealing oil in this post numbnuts. Please expalin who we were stealing oil from and admit you accuses us of stealing oil. Damn, you are too easy! I will address your response above when I get done laughing at you. It may take awhile! LOL

BTW, I bolded it for your ease of denial.

AMERICA IS STEALING OIL FROM IRAQ. I DID NOT SAY FROM IRAN, I JUST SAID THAT AMERICA HAS STOLEN THAT VERY SAME OIL. I never said that America is stealing oil from Iran, I just said that America buys or steals that very same oil. Talk about spinning the meaning to suit your psyche. What fucking difference does it make WHO it was stolen from? You know full well America is stealing Iraq's oil! Now let's see you try to deny it.
SS

[Stang Seller]

And why haven't you addressed any of the other parts of my reply? Is it because you THOUGHT you had a bad ass answer to that one and only question? Answer the rest of the questions or responses I have made, just as you always expect everyone else to do when you pose questions. Unless you're a HYPOCRITE. :rolleyes:
SS

[Paladin]

AMERICA IS STEALING OIL FROM IRAQ. I DID NOT SAY FROM IRAN, I JUST SAID THAT AMERICA HAS STOLEN THAT VERY SAME OIL. I never said that America is stealing oil from Iran, I just said that America buys or steals that very same oil. Talk about spinning the meaning to suit your psyche. What fucking difference does it make WHO it was stolen from? You know full well America is stealing Iraq's oil! Now let's see you try to deny it.
SS

Please show me the proof of us stealing from Iraq. I will join you in being upset.

[Paladin]

And why haven't you addressed any of the other parts of my reply? Is it because you THOUGHT you had a bad ass answer to that one and only question? Answer the rest of the questions or responses I have made, just as you always expect everyone else to do when you pose questions. Unless you're a HYPOCRITE. :rolleyes:
SS

I have addressed them. Iran is no major industrial power, not now, never has been. You said it had been and gave some "proof" that I laughed at. Just becuase you didn't like the answer doesn't mean there wasn't one. LOL

I also pointed out about your culture and the handwiping stuff, you denied it, I say it is part of your culture and all Arab cultures, especially the 3rd world countries like Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and all the others. It may be relegated to the more impoverished areas now, but that still encompasses 90-95% of the people. :D

Anything else? Please post them up, I will answer.

[Denny]

AMERICA IS STEALING OIL FROM IRAQ. I DID NOT SAY FROM IRAN, I JUST SAID THAT AMERICA HAS STOLEN THAT VERY SAME OIL. I never said that America is stealing oil from Iran, I just said that America buys or steals that very same oil. Talk about spinning the meaning to suit your psyche. What fucking difference does it make WHO it was stolen from? You know full well America is stealing Iraq's oil! Now let's see you try to deny it.
SS
Yep... we're really reaping the benefits from the Iraq occupancy :rolleyes:

[Paladin]

Yep... we're really reaping the benefits from the Iraq occupancy :rolleyes:

I can't wait to see his proof. LOL

[Zarathustra]

I can't wait to see his proof. LOL


ooh ooh...


fallacy

[Stang Seller]

I can't wait to see his proof. LOL
Since when, in the last 50 years, have the American people benefitted from any of the American Governments actions?
Did you benefit from Korea?
Did you benefit from Vietnam?
Did you benefit from Iran?
Did you benefit from Afghanistan?
Did you benefit from Iraq?
I'm not going to PROVE anything. But we all know, that with a decrease in oil stocks, decrease in American reserves, decreasing oil production, increasing price per barrel of oil....... Yet Exxon Mobil is able to post record profits year after year? All the big oil companies are posting huge increases in profits, which tells you that either the cost of oil isn't what it's said to be or they are selling a lot more oil for a lot more money than they were 10 years ago. Folks who used to work in the highest levels of government are now working for big oil, and vice versa. You guys don't think anything of this, of course.
We're told we don't get any benefits from Iraqi oil, which is why our prices at the pump are so high. But yet, the oil companies are still raking it in. I'm no economist, but that makes sense to me. We don't need proof to know wrong is being done. We don't need proof when our God given common sense and reason tells us something funny is going on. Proof would be nice, but we're not going to have any real facts in this day and age without 10x more opposing "facts" to mislead us. So, tell me what you will and call me all the names that you want. Because I know, that your mental capacity to have a real and intellectual debate or discussion is insufficient. Your level of maturity shows with all of your responses. You are the typical catch phrase mongrel. A year ago you were cheering for a "glass parking lot" and today you're talking about wiping your hand with your ass. And if you really had an inkling, you'd stop comparing Iranians to Arabs. :rolleyes:
SS

[Stang Seller]

And just for good measure:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm
I know it's old but I'm really not going to try hard to prove anything to you.
SS

[Zarathustra]

I'm going to heavily agree with the fellow that posted before me.

[Paladin]

blah blah, I hate America, blah blah...

I'm not going to PROVE anything, because I can't.
SS

I usually don't resport to changing posts to make a point, but you aren't worthy of much more effort.

[Paladin]

And just for good measure:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm
I know it's old but I'm really not going to try hard to prove anything to you.
SS

You use this article in which there is only specualtion about it, no proof?
Yeah, it makes sense you use an article with no proof as your proof. LOL

BTW, will you ever answer the question about whether the USA has done more good on this planet than it has done harm?

[Paladin]

I'm going to heavily agree with the fellow that posted before me.

I am shokced that the two America hating idiots agree! :rolleyes:

[Strychnine]

Did you benefit from Afghanistan?
Did you benefit from Iraq?

People that that I've never met who want me dead for some reason are being engaged somewhere other than my backyard.

How's that?


But we all know, that with a decrease in oil stocks,
Oil stocks are not decreasing. The latest NPC report states that in the last century approximately 1/3 of the world's reserves have been recovered. 2/3 of 15 trillion barrels is a lot.

increasing price per barrel of oil
No shit. As it becomes harder to get the oil out of the ground the price has to go up to make the venture profitable. (I know, I know, you hate that word). No one is going to produce oil at a loss.


decreasing oil production

Not quite

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/stroked71/totalliquidsupply.jpg


All the big oil companies are posting huge increases in profits

The increase is due to consumption. When a company operates on a 9.8% profit margin and they are still recording record profits it is simply because the are producing everything they can and people are buying everything that is produced. When you complain about their profits do you slap yourself on the wrist also? After all, you helped.

And I know it's been said before, but look at the profit margins of other industries before bitching too much:

Banking - Citigroup: 15.8%
Pharmaceuticals - Pfizer: 23.5%
Software - Microsoft: 31.6%


or they are selling a lot more oil for a lot more money than they were 10 years ago

That's consumer demand and market price, not some behind the scenes magic. The oil companies do not set the price of a barrel of oil.



There are some people on this board who seem to think "the man" has it out for them. A hunch ("something funny is going on") leads to an idea ("AMERICA IS STEALING OIL FROM IRAQ")... then all of a sudden there's a conspiracy theory behind every door and the New World Order is right around the corner.

Remember Occam's razor. Don't go too deep down the rabbit hole or you'll lose your way out.

[Stang Seller]

People that that I've never met who want me dead for some reason are being engaged somewhere other than my backyard.

How's that?
Where's Osama? And what did Saddam ever do to you? Do the muslims you know in the US want you dead? Or is that just the muslims who don't live in the US that want to kill you?



Oil stocks are not decreasing. The latest NPC report states that in the last century approximately 1/3 of the world's reserves have been recovered. 2/3 of 15 trillion barrels is a lot.
A few years ago American oil reserves were at an all time low, I should have clarified myself there. Now, with increased consumption they are better stocked?


No shit. As it becomes harder to get the oil out of the ground the price has to go up to make the venture profitable. (I know, I know, you hate that word). No one is going to produce oil at a loss.
Nothing wrong with profit, but there's something wrong with taking advantage. If I recall correctly, about 10 years ago the price per barrel was around $15. Today, we hover around the $100/barrel mark. The price of gasoline at the pumps has doubled, maybe +115% every now and again. I know it's not the only crude oil byproduct, but a good gauge and we'll just use it as a marker. To maintain the same profits as before, they would need to sell nearly 10 times as much gasoline and other oil products. Do you really think we're consuming 10x more than we were 10 years ago? I know other countries are consuming more oil, but like you said.... costs are higher today due to the lower supply and the lower the levels get the more costly to get the oil. Taking all of that into account, before the merger in 1998 Exxon posted $2.2 Billion in profits. After the merger, in 02 we see $11.5 Billion and in 2006 they posted $39.5 Billion.




Not quite

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/stroked71/totalliquidsupply.jpg




The increase is due to consumption. When a company operates on a 9.8% profit margin and they are still recording record profits it is simply because the are producing everything they can and people are buying everything that is produced. When you complain about their profits do you slap yourself on the wrist also? After all, you helped.
The top three sections in that graph are hypothetical, not actual. The graph also shows a decline in production starting pretty much now.
I still don't believe that we are consuming enough to warrant those profits. I'm not convinced, but then again I am not a marketing or economy expert.

And I know it's been said before, but look at the profit margins of other industries before bitching too much:

Banking - Citigroup: 15.8%
Pharmaceuticals - Pfizer: 23.5%
Software - Microsoft: 31.6%
They are completely different species, and they are selling completely different products. They are not turning raw material into tradeable goods.




That's consumer demand and market price, not some behind the scenes magic. The oil companies do not set the price of a barrel of oil.



There are some people on this board who seem to think "the man" has it out for them. A hunch ("something funny is going on") leads to an idea ("AMERICA IS STEALING OIL FROM IRAQ")... then all of a sudden there's a conspiracy theory behind every door and the New World Order is right around the corner.

Remember Occam's razor. Don't go too deep down the rabbit hole or you'll lose your way out.

Sorry for going off topic here. I just want to say that I am not trying to argue here or act like I know it all. My sense and reason tell me that there is more than meets the eye. I do believe there is more going on behind the scenes, after all.... look at the many criminal convictions the big oil companies and their employees keep getting into. With bribery of politicians, and many more dirty tricks I am convinced that these morally bankrupt people have no qualms about stealing Iraqi oil. I believe this is a huge part of their profits, getting Iraqi oil well below cost and turning record profit.
It's not just the conspiracy theorists, regular people buy into this too. It's a well founded and rational idea, do you honestly think that a company who allegedly funds guerilla forces, who rape and kill civilians, would think twice about stealing the most prized substance on earth? Is it possible, like so many corporations in recent memory, that they might cook the books a bit just so everything looks legit? Since many of these companies are US based and the US just so happens to be fighting a 'war' in Iraq..... is it entirely plausible that you can place the blame on the US for stealing oil as a whole? I believe so.
SS

[Paladin]

Where's Osama? And what did Saddam ever do to you? Do the muslims you know in the US want you dead? Or is that just the muslims who don't live in the US that want to kill you?




A few years ago American oil reserves were at an all time low, I should have clarified myself there. Now, with increased consumption they are better stocked?



Nothing wrong with profit, but there's something wrong with taking advantage. If I recall correctly, about 10 years ago the price per barrel was around $15. Today, we hover around the $100/barrel mark. The price of gasoline at the pumps has doubled, maybe +115% every now and again. I know it's not the only crude oil byproduct, but a good gauge and we'll just use it as a marker. To maintain the same profits as before, they would need to sell nearly 10 times as much gasoline and other oil products. Do you really think we're consuming 10x more than we were 10 years ago? I know other countries are consuming more oil, but like you said.... costs are higher today due to the lower supply and the lower the levels get the more costly to get the oil. Taking all of that into account, before the merger in 1998 Exxon posted $2.2 Billion in profits. After the merger, in 02 we see $11.5 Billion and in 2006 they posted $39.5 Billion.





The top three sections in that graph are hypothetical, not actual. The graph also shows a decline in production starting pretty much now.
I still don't believe that we are consuming enough to warrant those profits. I'm not convinced, but then again I am not a marketing or economy expert.


They are completely different species, and they are selling completely different products. They are not turning raw material into tradeable goods.






Sorry for going off topic here. I just want to say that I am not trying to argue here or act like I know it all. My sense and reason tell me that there is more than meets the eye. I do believe there is more going on behind the scenes, after all.... look at the many criminal convictions the big oil companies and their employees keep getting into. With bribery of politicians, and many more dirty tricks I am convinced that these morally bankrupt people have no qualms about stealing Iraqi oil. I believe this is a huge part of their profits, getting Iraqi oil well below cost and turning record profit.
It's not just the conspiracy theorists, regular people buy into this too. It's a well founded and rational idea, do you honestly think that a company who allegedly funds guerilla forces, who rape and kill civilians, would think twice about stealing the most prized substance on earth? Is it possible, like so many corporations in recent memory, that they might cook the books a bit just so everything looks legit? Since many of these companies are US based and the US just so happens to be fighting a 'war' in Iraq..... is it entirely plausible that you can place the blame on the US for stealing oil as a whole? I believe so.
SS

Why is it that the people who always claim to be the enlightened ones are the people who are so eager to buy into the BS put out by the conspiracy idiots and the "sky is falling" crowd? You are something else man!

[Zarathustra]

You wouldn't understand...

[Denny]

You wouldn't understand...
Translation: Ignorance uncovered!

[Zarathustra]

Translation: Ignorance uncovered!

I'm the ignorant one?? That makes me laugh, you botched, weak soul.

[Strychnine]

Where's Osama? And what did Saddam ever do to you? Do the muslims you know in the US want you dead? Or is that just the muslims who don't live in the US that want to kill you?

Interesting discussion on the subject: http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=663821


A few years ago American oil reserves were at an all time low, I should have clarified myself there. Now, with increased consumption they are better stocked?

Deepnds. How do you define reserves? Proven reserves (recoverable oil) or strategic reserves (oil that has been recovered and then set aside)?
In terms of the United States, proven reserves have fallen since 1970 but worldwide the number of proven reserves has grown. The US has the largest strategic reserve, with 698 million barrels currently (~$65 billion) in salt domes along the gulf coast. (max capacity is 727 million bbls)


If I recall correctly, about 10 years ago the price per barrel was around $15. Today, we hover around the $100/barrel mark. The price of gasoline at the pumps has doubled, maybe +115% every now and again.

When the demand grows nonstop but the production capacity remains stagnant or falls the laws of supply and demand take control. As long as there are roadblocks to expanding the infrastructure prices will continue to shoot skyward until people reach a breaking point and cut their usage.

Sidenotes:
A new average-sized U.S. refinery (120,000 bpd capacity) would cost $3 billion or more and would increase U.S. refining capacity less than 1 percent.
Also, a few weeks ago I was told (straight from the mouth of someone from Shell Exploration & Production Co.) that between now and 2030 the oil/gas infrastructure will need $20 trillion dollars invested into it.


I know it's not the only crude oil byproduct, but a good gauge and we'll just use it as a marker. To maintain the same profits as before, they would need to sell nearly 10 times as much gasoline and other oil products. Do you really think we're consuming 10x more than we were 10 years ago? I know other countries are consuming more oil, but like you said.... costs are higher today due to the lower supply and the lower the levels get the more costly to get the oil. Taking all of that into account, before the merger in 1998 Exxon posted $2.2 Billion in profits. After the merger, in 02 we see $11.5 Billion and in 2006 they posted $39.5 Billion.

You're assuming steady state production over that 10 years.

The US consumed around 15.3 million bpd in 1982 and around 19.8 million bpd in 2002. (29% increase)

In the same time period US refining capacity dropped from 17.6 million bpd (1982) to 17.1 million bpd (2002). (2.8% decrease)

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/RecentPetroleumConsumptionBarrelsperDay.xls
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/finance/mergers/refcap_tab2.html

Supply and demand.


The top three sections in that graph are hypothetical, not actual. The graph also shows a decline in production starting pretty much now.
I still don't believe that we are consuming enough to warrant those profits. I'm not convinced, but then again I am not a marketing or economy expert.

I don't see a decline? I just see a shift in the source percentages.

BTW, the top sections are not hypothetical. They are just reserves that are not "conventional."

"Development of Existing Reserves" - Simply means continuing with what has been found already (large oil discoveries can take 15-20 years from exploration until production begins, and production can continue for 50+ years)

"Enhanced Oil Recovery" - refers to new technology that improves recovery factors and reduces declining production

"Unconventional" - Product stores in coal beds, shale, oil sands, etc.

Top top section "development of new discoveries" is climbing because, as we mentioned, as the price per barrel climbs (which it will continue to do) new discoveries will become profitable and be turned into producing fields.



They are completely different species, and they are selling completely different products. They are not turning raw material into tradeable goods.

OK, look at Goodyear. Rubber to tires. Their profit margin over the last 12 months is 19.8%
In 2006, TXU had a margin of 20%+


Sorry for going off topic here. I just want to say that I am not trying to argue here or act like I know it all. My sense and reason tell me that there is more than meets the eye. I do believe there is more going on behind the scenes, after all.... look at the many criminal convictions the big oil companies and their employees keep getting into. With bribery of politicians, and many more dirty tricks I am convinced that these morally bankrupt people have no qualms about stealing Iraqi oil. I believe this is a huge part of their profits, getting Iraqi oil well below cost and turning record profit. It's not just the conspiracy theorists, regular people buy into this too. It's a well founded and rational idea, do you honestly think that a company who allegedly funds guerilla forces, who rape and kill civilians, would think twice about stealing the most prized substance on earth? Is it possible, like so many corporations in recent memory, that they might cook the books a bit just so everything looks legit? Since many of these companies are US based and the US just so happens to be fighting a 'war' in Iraq..... is it entirely plausible that you can place the blame on the US for stealing oil as a whole? I believe so.
SS


Go with your gut if you want. Those are things that none of us in this forum can prove. So when you say "We're stealing Iraq's oil" and somone else retorts with "No, we are not stealing their oil," remember that they are just as right or wrong as you. You don't get convictions on probable cause.

[Stang Seller]

Interesting discussion on the subject: http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=663821
I dont buy into that. Anyone with a decent brain between their ears can come up with a million different scenarios, it just depends if it rings true or appeals to your line of thinking. Just as everyone always counters with "Where's Bin Laden" and whatever, the folks on the other side of the fence always counter with "well, AQ is everywhere" and the same tired rhetoric both sides use. We both know most people are sheep, but there are a few of us who choose to believe what we believe.



Deepnds. How do you define reserves? Proven reserves (recoverable oil) or strategic reserves (oil that has been recovered and then set aside)?
In terms of the United States, proven reserves have fallen since 1970 but worldwide the number of proven reserves has grown. The US has the largest strategic reserve, with 698 million barrels currently (~$65 billion) in salt domes along the gulf coast. (max capacity is 727 million bbls)
I believe I was referring to proven reserves. It's apparent that the Saudi's and others have 'upped' their supposedly proven reserves to be able to pump out more oil to bring in more cash.



When the demand grows nonstop but the production capacity remains stagnant or falls the laws of supply and demand take control. As long as there are roadblocks to expanding the infrastructure prices will continue to shoot skyward until people reach a breaking point and cut their usage.

Sidenotes:
A new average-sized U.S. refinery (120,000 bpd capacity) would cost $3 billion or more and would increase U.S. refining capacity less than 1 percent.
Also, a few weeks ago I was told (straight from the mouth of someone from Shell Exploration & Production Co.) that between now and 2030 the oil/gas infrastructure will need $20 trillion dollars invested into it.




You're assuming steady state production over that 10 years.

The US consumed around 15.3 million bpd in 1982 and around 19.8 million bpd in 2002. (29% increase)

In the same time period US refining capacity dropped from 17.6 million bpd (1982) to 17.1 million bpd (2002). (2.8% decrease)

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/RecentPetroleumConsumptionBarrelsperDay.xls
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/finance/mergers/refcap_tab2.html

Supply and demand.
This contradicts what you were saying earlier. Indeed, supply and demand play a role in determining final cost to the end user. You're consuming 29% more, yet paying nearly 300% more than you were in 1982. Gas was at $1.25 per gallon then, and about $3.50 today. And THAT was right after the Iranian revolution and during the Iran-Iraq war, with two major oil suppliers unable to meet their quotas and with a combined oil reserve of 87 billion barrels in 1982 vs 202 billion barrels in 1998. Supply and demand, right? I understand what you're saying, but even if you take into account inflation and the emergence of China.... there have been loads of new oil fields and technology discovered in the last 30 years that make oil cheaper and more abundantly extracted.




I don't see a decline? I just see a shift in the source percentages.

BTW, the top sections are not hypothetical. They are just reserves that are not "conventional."

"Development of Existing Reserves" - Simply means continuing with what has been found already (large oil discoveries can take 15-20 years from exploration until production begins, and production can continue for 50+ years)

"Enhanced Oil Recovery" - refers to new technology that improves recovery factors and reduces declining production

"Unconventional" - Product stores in coal beds, shale, oil sands, etc.

Top top section "development of new discoveries" is climbing because, as we mentioned, as the price per barrel climbs (which it will continue to do) new discoveries will become profitable and be turned into producing fields.
Won't argue with you there. But your explanation of Enhanced Oil Recovery really makes it sound hypothetical.




OK, look at Goodyear. Rubber to tires. Their profit margin over the last 12 months is 19.8%
In 2006, TXU had a margin of 20%+





Go with your gut if you want. Those are things that none of us in this forum can prove. So when you say "We're stealing Iraq's oil" and somone else retorts with "No, we are not stealing their oil," remember that they are just as right or wrong as you. You don't get convictions on probable cause.

Maybe they don't make enough profit, but I think they are now making the profit they are because they're doing something they weren't doing before 9/11. Profits have jumped substantially since then, is it a coincidence?
You make a very good point, and I'm not arguing to say I'm right I'm just saying that I believe the US is stealing oil. I'm not trying to prove it to anyone, because I know I don't have that proof. But those who ask me for that proof, do not have anything to prove me wrong either. There is evidence for both sides to conclude they are correct.
And, FWIW, I am not a conspiracy theorist! There are some things they think that I believe as well, but not because they said it. I make my own opinions. Hell, I think Ron Paul would make a great US president, even though I really like Obama. You can't fit me in with anyone because I don't subscribe to the views of just any one group.
Tell me, who controls the Iraqi oil fields?
SS

[Paladin]

Interesting discussion on the subject: http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=663821

The first post is one of the best I have ever seen on the subject. Thanks for the link.

[AL P]

I hope this hasn't been discussed, I have not read all of the replies in this thread, but when it comes to a discussion about Iraq and oil and price levels, you can't forget a few basic facts:

-The amount of "reserves" is always changing. Due to exploration and new technology that allows extraction of existing known supplies that weren't previously recoverable.

-You can't "take over the country and sell all the oil off". The math simply doesn't work. A sell off implies that there will be a glut of oil on the market. Higher supply equals lower prices at a given consumption. Sure you can artifically inflate consumption by storing oil but even that won't last long, you simply don't have enough storage capacity anywhere on the planet. Once the tanks are full the price goes back down.

-Any reasonable invasion plan would include a plan to manage Iraq's oil fields. This may sound like a conspiracy to steal oil but REALLY, think about this now, who are you going to get to manage the oil fields? Google? Microsoft? Come on, we all know the answer here. Just because it is an oil company does that mean a conspiracy is in place? I don't buy that. Not only that but I don't think Iraq's government would stand for it. This is money we are talking about here, people fight when there is money at stake.

Do oil companies milk every dollar they can out of the American people? Sure they do, they are a business. That's not evidence of a conspiracy though. Competent management of oilfield assets is not evidence of a conspiracy. Huge increases in demand levels from emerging economies are not evidence of a conspiracy. People who are educated about economics and financial markets don't see the conspiracy. It's not because they are dumb or blinded.

There is one thing that is a bit of a conspiracy and that is the commodity traders who have driven up the price of a barrel of oil. Estimates are that they add $20 to the price right now. But relax, those assholes are going to get it when the market explodes again like it did in the 80s. Oil will be back at $50 or so, people have been saying it for years. And that's not a conspiracy, that's just traders making bad decisions and getting fucked. Personally I can't wait to see it. There is already a bit of a decrease in demand here in the states. We just need one of these exploding economies to slow down.

[Vertnut]

I hope this hasn't been discussed, I have not read all of the replies in this thread, but when it comes to a discussion about Iraq and oil and price levels, you can't forget a few basic facts:

-The amount of "reserves" is always changing. Due to exploration and new technology that allows extraction of existing known supplies that weren't previously recoverable.

-You can't "take over the country and sell all the oil off". The math simply doesn't work. A sell off implies that there will be a glut of oil on the market. Higher supply equals lower prices at a given consumption. Sure you can artifically inflate consumption by storing oil but even that won't last long, you simply don't have enough storage capacity anywhere on the planet. Once the tanks are full the price goes back down.

-Any reasonable invasion plan would include a plan to manage Iraq's oil fields. This may sound like a conspiracy to steal oil but REALLY, think about this now, who are you going to get to manage the oil fields? Google? Microsoft? Come on, we all know the answer here. Just because it is an oil company does that mean a conspiracy is in place? I don't buy that. Not only that but I don't think Iraq's government would stand for it. This is money we are talking about here, people fight when there is money at stake.

Do oil companies milk every dollar they can out of the American people? Sure they do, they are a business. That's not evidence of a conspiracy though. Competent management of oilfield assets is not evidence of a conspiracy. Huge increases in demand levels from emerging economies are not evidence of a conspiracy. People who are educated about economics and financial markets don't see the conspiracy. It's not because they are dumb or blinded.

There is one thing that is a bit of a conspiracy and that is the commodity traders who have driven up the price of a barrel of oil. Estimates are that they add $20 to the price right now. But relax, those assholes are going to get it when the market explodes again like it did in the 80s. Oil will be back at $50 or so, people have been saying it for years. And that's not a conspiracy, that's just traders making bad decisions and getting fucked. Personally I can't wait to see it. There is already a bit of a decrease in demand here in the states. We just need one of these exploding economies to slow down.
Al, I hope you're right, but I don't think oil will ever go below $75 a barrell. I hope I'm wrong, but with the global market and China kicking into high gear, I fear oil AND gasoline, along with all other petroleum-related products, will remain high.

[AL P]

Al, I hope you're right, but I don't think oil will ever go below $75 a barrell. I hope I'm wrong, but with the global market and China kicking into high gear, I fear oil AND gasoline, along with all other petroleum-related products, will remain high.

Remember the past. All of this has happened before and will happen again. For whatever reason, it will happen.

[Zarathustra]

I hope this hasn't been discussed, I have not read all of the replies in this thread, but when it comes to a discussion about Iraq and oil and price levels, you can't forget a few basic facts:

-The amount of "reserves" is always changing. Due to exploration and new technology that allows extraction of existing known supplies that weren't previously recoverable.

-You can't "take over the country and sell all the oil off". The math simply doesn't work. A sell off implies that there will be a glut of oil on the market. Higher supply equals lower prices at a given consumption. Sure you can artifically inflate consumption by storing oil but even that won't last long, you simply don't have enough storage capacity anywhere on the planet. Once the tanks are full the price goes back down.

-Any reasonable invasion plan would include a plan to manage Iraq's oil fields. This may sound like a conspiracy to steal oil but REALLY, think about this now, who are you going to get to manage the oil fields? Google? Microsoft? Come on, we all know the answer here. Just because it is an oil company does that mean a conspiracy is in place? I don't buy that. Not only that but I don't think Iraq's government would stand for it. This is money we are talking about here, people fight when there is money at stake.

Do oil companies milk every dollar they can out of the American people? Sure they do, they are a business. That's not evidence of a conspiracy though. Competent management of oilfield assets is not evidence of a conspiracy. Huge increases in demand levels from emerging economies are not evidence of a conspiracy. People who are educated about economics and financial markets don't see the conspiracy. It's not because they are dumb or blinded.

There is one thing that is a bit of a conspiracy and that is the commodity traders who have driven up the price of a barrel of oil. Estimates are that they add $20 to the price right now. But relax, those assholes are going to get it when the market explodes again like it did in the 80s. Oil will be back at $50 or so, people have been saying it for years. And that's not a conspiracy, that's just traders making bad decisions and getting fucked. Personally I can't wait to see it. There is already a bit of a decrease in demand here in the states. We just need one of these exploding economies to slow down.

Couldn't possibly have said it better myself.

[Zarathustra]

The first post is one of the best I have ever seen on the subject. Thanks for the link.

That's funny dude, because that whole article was one astronomical fallacy.

[Paladin]

That's funny dude, because that whole article was one astronomical fallacy.

LOL, they address the idiots like you in the thread. You need to read it.

[Denny]

I'm the ignorant one?? That makes me laugh, you botched, weak soul.
Is that taco-speak for "I know you are, but what am I?" Sad