Stock Markets Plunge Worldwide

[ayzo]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080121/world_markets.html

Way to go Washington, cut taxes, increase spending, then print more money to make up the difference. How could that plan possibly fail?


LONDON (AP) -- Stocks fell sharply worldwide Monday following declines on Wall Street last week amid investor pessimism over the U.S. government's stimulus plan to prevent a recession.

U.S. markets were closed for Martin Luther King Jr. Day, but the downbeat mood from last week's market declines there circled through Europe, Asia and Canada. The U.K. benchmark FTSE-100 dropped 4.7 percent to 5,625.20; France's CAC-40 Index plunged 5.9 percent to 4,793.39, while Germany's blue-chip DAX 30 slumped 6.74 percent to 6,821.42.

In Asia, India's benchmark stock index tumbled 7.4 percent, while Hong Kong's blue-chip Hang Seng index plummeted 5.5 percent to 23,818.86, its biggest percentage drop since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Canadian stocks fell as well, with the S&P/TSX composite index on the Toronto Stock Exchange down 4.8 percent. In Brazil, stocks plunged 6.9 percent on the main index of Sao Paulo's Bovespa exchange.

Investors dumped shares because they were skeptical that an economic stimulus plan President Bush announced Friday would shore up the economy that has been battered by problems in its housing and credit markets. The plan, which requires approval by Congress, calls for about $145 billion worth of tax relief to encourage consumer spending.

"We've taken our lead from the Asian markets who have not been impressed by the U.S. There's debate if there's going to be a recession in the U.S. I don't think there's much chance of that though," said Richard Hunter an analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown Stockbrokers Ltd. in London.

Concerns about the outlook for the U.S. economy, a major export market for Asian companies, has sent the region's markets sliding in 2008. Just last Wednesday, the Hang Seng index sank 5.4 percent.

"It's another horrible day," said Francis Lun, a general manager at Fulbright Securities in Hong Kong. "Today it's because of disappointment that the U.S. stimulus (package) is too little, too late and investors feel it won't help the economy recover."

Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index slid 3.9 percent to close at 13,325.94 points, its lowest close in more than two years. China's Shanghai Composite index plunged 5.1 percent, partly on worries about mainland Chinese banks' exposure to risky U.S. mortgage investments.

"People are certainly nervous about a potential recession in the U.S. spilling over to the rest of the world," said David Cohen, Director of Asian Economic Forecasting at Action Economics in Singapore.

"Maybe there's still some wariness about politicians are able to come up with a compromise and act sufficiently quickly" on a stimulus package, Cohen said. "I think the impact would be marginal anyway."

Investors took cues from the negative reaction to the president's plan on Wall Street on Friday, when the Dow Jones industrial average slid 0.5 percent to 12,099.30, bringing its loss for the year so far to nearly 9 percent.

Traders also have shrugged off assurances from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke that the U.S. central bank is ready to act aggressively -- which means a likely big interest rate cut later this month -- to help the sagging economy.

Some analysts predict that Asia won't suffer dramatically from a U.S. recession because increased trade and investment within Asia has made the region less reliant on the United States than in the past. Excluding Japan, 43 percent of Asia's exports go to other nations in the region, Lehman Brothers calculates, up from 37 percent in 1995.

But on Monday, uncertainty and pessimism reigned.

In Tokyo trading, exporters got hit hard, partly because of the yen's recent strength against the dollar. Toyota Motor Corp. lost 3.3 percent and Honda Motor Co. sank 3.4 percent.

Shares of Bank of China dropped 6.4 percent in Hong Kong after the South China Morning Post newspaper reported that the bank is expected to announce a "significant write-down" in U.S. subprime mortgage securities, citing unidentified sources. In Shanghai, the bank's stock declined 4.1 percent.

India's the benchmark Sensex index fell 1,353 points, or 7.4 percent -- its second-biggest percentage drop ever -- to 17,605.35 points. At one point, it was down nearly 11 percent.

The decline hit companies across the board, with power utility Reliance Energy Ltd. falling 16.4 percent. Major software company Tata Consultancy Services Ltd. slid 7.6 percent

"A gloomy U.S. climate has affected the global markets. Even if those markets recover, it will take sometime for the recovery to reach India because today's fall has been so drastic," said Jayant Pai, of the Mumbai investment company IL&FS Ltd.

Still, Pai and others suggested that the declines could lead to a buying opportunity.

"The sell-off today takes us close to the bottom," she said.

Since the start of the year, Japan's Nikkei index has declined 13 percent, while Hong Kong's blue-chip index is down more than 14 percent. Even China's Shanghai index -- which nearly doubled last year -- has fallen 6.6 percent over the same period and nearly 20 percent from its all-time closing high on Oct. 16.

Associated Press writers Cassie Biggs in Hong Kong, Ramola Talwar Badam in Mumbai and Elaine Kurtenbach in Shanghai Carl Freire in Tokyo contributed to this report.

[Sean88gt]

The only good thing about us sinking is the chain firmly wrapped around the neck of the rest of the world. We'll rebound a lot easier than they will.

[AL P]

What happens to us depends on what happens over night. If the worldwide markets uptick a little (possible if there are deal hunters) or stay flat some of the hysteria may wear off. If they continue to slide, we are fucked.

Right now futures are saying about a 500 point drop of the Dow, that's a huge disaster.

[AL P]

Brutal, absolutely brutal. If markets were open right now it would be a disaster.

FUTURES
VALUE CHANGE % CHANGE
Dow 11,592.00 -514.00 -4.25
S&P 500 1,265.10 -60.20 -4.54
NASDAQ 1,773.50 -76.00 -4.11
S&P/TSE 716.30 -30.60 -4.10
Mexico Bolsa 25,700.00 -1,263.00 -4.68
Brazil Bovespa 53,980.00 -3,400.00 -5.93

[JimD]

Well it is "black" monday you know....

[ayzo]

Brutal, absolutely brutal. If markets were open right now it would be a disaster.

FUTURES
VALUE CHANGE % CHANGE
Dow 11,592.00 -514.00 -4.25
S&P 500 1,265.10 -60.20 -4.54
NASDAQ 1,773.50 -76.00 -4.11
S&P/TSE 716.30 -30.60 -4.10
Mexico Bolsa 25,700.00 -1,263.00 -4.68
Brazil Bovespa 53,980.00 -3,400.00 -5.93

LOL i'm really kicking myself right now for selling off my e-mini contracts right now...

[Strychnine]

I'd been avoiding looking at my money for a while, mostly b/c I'm not a trader like some of you. Since I don't fancy myself educated enough on the subject, I just let the money ride and hope the advisor isn't fucking me.

I just took a peek :eek:

Down 0.22% from 36 months ago... down 9.11% since 1-1-08 and down 18.61% since the peak (10-31-07).

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/stroked71/money1-21-08.jpg

Yikes :(

[AdamLX]

Tomorrow morning will definitely be interesting to see what happened overnight.

If it tanks I will be curious to see how long Bernake can sit on his hands before trying to stop the bleeding.

[Denny]

Tomorrow morning will definitely be interesting to see what happened overnight.

If it tanks I will be curious to see how long Bernake can sit on his hands before trying to stop the bleeding.
Before close tomorrow.

[ayzo]

Tomorrow morning will definitely be interesting to see what happened overnight.

If it tanks I will be curious to see how long Bernake can sit on his hands before trying to stop the bleeding.

I expect a full 100bps cut tomorrow but its not going to fix anything. The problem is/was that credit was too easy to obtain. Now those people can't pay back what they owe on their homes so either we socialize the losses or a few banks, lenders, and lots of investors lose their money. Things may look bad now but just wait until May through September, its going to be an absolute slaughter fest when all of those mortgages reset.

[slow99]

Before close tomorrow.

This is one thing I am finding no solace in being correct about. :(

[AdamLX]

I expect a full 100bps cut tomorrow but its not going to fix anything. The problem is/was that credit was too easy to obtain. Now those people can't pay back what they owe on their homes so either we socialize the losses or a few banks, lenders, and lots of investors lose their money. Things may look bad now but just wait until May through September, its going to be an absolute slaughter fest when all of those mortgages reset.

All these rate cuts are just postponing the inevitable.

One saving grace for all those mortgages adjusting will be that rates are going to be substantially lower than they were at that point in 2007, at least if the economy continues down the path it's going now.

[AL P]

All these rate cuts are just postponing the inevitable.

One saving grace for all those mortgages adjusting will be that rates are going to be substantially lower than they were at that point in 2007, at least if the economy continues down the path it's going now.

The problem is that eventually you have to pay the piper. With the low rates you get inflation that is high as hell. It's like the early 80s all over again. We had to have 13% interest rates for a while to kill the resulting inflation.

Cutting rates is the worst thing they can do but you can bet your ass that they will do it.

[Denny]

The problem is that eventually you have to pay the piper. With the low rates you get inflation that is high as hell. It's like the early 80s all over again. We had to have 13% interest rates for a while to kill the resulting inflation.

Cutting rates is the worst thing they can do but you can bet your ass that they will do it.
Shit... jack up these rates and separate the men from the boys!!!

[Denny]

This is one thing I am finding no solace in being correct about. :(
You need to turn that frown upside down!

[AdamLX]

The problem is that eventually you have to pay the piper. With the low rates you get inflation that is high as hell. It's like the early 80s all over again. We had to have 13% interest rates for a while to kill the resulting inflation.

Cutting rates is the worst thing they can do but you can bet your ass that they will do it.

Yep, it just makes me cringe everytime a rate cut speculation crosses my screen on cnnmoney.

How is this correlating over to the commercial side? I've been contemplating a move to a commercial company that I know in the near future to start playing with more than home loans.

[slow99]

You need to turn that frown upside down!

Just got a call that we all have to be in the office at 6am tomorrow, dammit.

[Sean88gt]

The problem is that eventually you have to pay the piper. With the low rates you get inflation that is high as hell. It's like the early 80s all over again. We had to have 13% interest rates for a while to kill the resulting inflation.

Cutting rates is the worst thing they can do but you can bet your ass that they will do it.

How will skyrocketing interest rates affect savings rates?

[AdamLX]

And there's currently a lot of other things happening as well to get back to the basics. One key thing is 2nd mortgages are about to go the way of dinosaurs. They are getting priced out of existance.

It's rare that I'll even offer one due to it not being practical, which works for me because they are a hassle.

[thesource]

Looks like I will be keeping most of the money I made off of selling some call options on my stock I own ...... too bad thats about the only positive thing I can see at this point .

[Denny]

Just got a call that we all have to be in the office at 6am tomorrow, dammit.
What's up with that?

[slow99]

What's up with that?

Risk checking. Fuck, I was sssoooo close to pulling the trigger on going long the DOG Friday afternoon, but held off. Where's that crystal ball when you need it?

[bobs94formula]

The problem is that eventually you have to pay the piper. With the low rates you get inflation that is high as hell. It's like the early 80s all over again. We had to have 13% interest rates for a while to kill the resulting inflation.

Cutting rates is the worst thing they can do but you can bet your ass that they will do it.

That 13%, was that just for home mortgages????

[Sean88gt]

Tell them that Dr. King said it is ok to sleep in after his birfday.

[AL P]

How will skyrocketing interest rates affect savings rates?

Anybody's guess. One would think that people would be inclined to save more but remember that the vast majority of people have no real savings. They owe. With rising interest rates you get a rise in credit card interest rates and a rise in ARM rates. Not to mention a rise in the cost of buying a car since 0.0% goes the way of the dodo. Bottom line is that it means less disposable income and therefore, less consumer spending. But that is what happened in the 80s, we had to take it on the chin. Those times could return.

[AL P]

That 13%, was that just for home mortgages????

No. You could buy treasury bonds and shit with those high yields. Crazy, I know. Some of those instruments are still floating around out there. Of course the price is adjusted so they don't return a true 13%, that's bonds 101 and a different discussion.

[AdamLX]

That 13%, was that just for home mortgages????

The prime rate back then ranged from 9-18% so you can bet everything else was high.

[AL P]

Yep, it just makes me cringe everytime a rate cut speculation crosses my screen on cnnmoney.

How is this correlating over to the commercial side? I've been contemplating a move to a commercial company that I know in the near future to start playing with more than home loans.

The commercial side is interesting right now. Cheap money has driven prices high as hell for the past 3 years or so. Right now there are plenty of sellers who want to sell but they don't realize that their stuff isn't worth what it was a year ago. So we aren't seeing a lot of deal flow and we won't see a lot until the sellers are "re-educated".

This shake up has removed a lot of people who financed 80-90% of the total cost of their deals. You can't get that financing anymore so that removes a lot of buyers. As a buyer of instutional quality product we have always been very conservative and only leveraged about 60%. Our capital is still intact too, so we are one of the few at the dance with money in hand, waiting to buy. The bullshitters had to call it a night. Now the sellers just got to realize that the price we are offering is all they are going to get since their whores have left.

All of this denies foreign money though. You got all kinds of foreign money preying on the weak ass dollar and swooping into sexy markets in California, South Florida and Phoenix looking to steal some properties at bargain rates. How many foreigners would love to say they own property in California? Answer is...a lot of them. So those places are being proped up to some extent. Other markets are in the situation I talked about above.

What is going to be interesting is what happens in April or so when nothing has sold and the brokers start getting hungry and need to eat. That is when the fun begins. I've already got them sending me shit deals with hair all over them, just praying to God that I offer them too much. In a few months it will be hilarious.

[01WhiteCobra]

Just got a call that we all have to be in the office at 6am tomorrow, dammit.

Thats because the DOW futures are already down 500+ points. :D

[Sean88gt]

Which is why something will have to give on one end or another. Money is too easy to get and everyone goes nuts, then people realize they can't afford what they've got and start defaulting, causing the banks to shut everyone off, until they start losing money, then they open the flood gates again.

[01WhiteCobra]

So much for Bernake sayings its "contained."

[AL P]

So much for Bernake sayings its "contained."

I guess contained = OH SHIT!!!

[Sean88gt]

So much for Bernake sayings its "contained."
Bernake would have been better off to be straight.

Right now Bernake is Kevin Bacon in Animal House "REMAIN CALM!"

http://www.tigerboard.com/userimages/1animalhouse508.jpeg

[AL P]

Bernake would have been better off to be straight.

Right now Bernake is Kevin Bacon in Animal House "REMAIN CALM!"

http://www.tigerboard.com/userimages/1animalhouse508.jpeg

...........All is well....

[jyro]

should I buy tomorrow or Wed., or wait a while? I look at this as a great opportunity!

[01WhiteCobra]

should I buy tomorrow or Wed., or wait a while? I look at this as a great opportunity!

Why try to guess the bottom?

Let the market tell you when it has bottomed and it has done nothing to say so.

[ITSSlow]

i wish i understood what yall are talkin about

[mikeb]

...........All is well....

at least greenspan came across as having some knowledge and of having some control, and of maybe having a plan.... bernake comes across as having absolutely no idea of what to do.....

[Sean88gt]

i wish i understood what yall are talkin about

The shit is hitting the fan, the problem is we don't own the shit and the fan is financed and not worth what it was 6 months ago.

[01WhiteCobra]

at least greenspan came across as having some knowledge and of having some control, and of maybe having a plan.... bernake comes across as having absolutely no idea of what to do.....

Greenspan was paramount in the real estate bubble. I'll say that in the deep dark world of the Fed they engineered a portion of it to reflate wealth from the tech crash of early 2000s.

[mikeb]

Greenspan was paramount in the real estate bubble. I'll say that in the deep dark world of the Fed they engineered a portion of it to reflate wealth from the tech crash of early 2000s.

yeah I know his hands were dirty but he did seem to have a steady presence that benny simply does not have.

[01WhiteCobra]

yeah I know his hands were dirty but he did seem to have a steady presence that benny simply does not have.

The big difference between the two is Greenspan is a politician whereas Bernake is an academic.

[Denny]

Heh... is anyone watching some of bids before the opening bell? Holy fuck!

[momo stallion]

Heh... is anyone watching some of bids before the opening bell? Holy fuck!


its pretty gross. the only bright side for me is that i'm likely to buy something today :]

i moved my 401k and funds to fixed income to shelter myself from the beating to come at 8:30 am.

does the nyse floor have a webcam? thats going to be pandemonium.

[Mychael101]

This is why I'm glad I have my 401k money in a guaranteed 3.xx min, its never going to make much but will never lose anything. I hate risk and I would hate to see money disappear because of speculation in the market.

[Denny]

This is why I'm glad I have my 401k money in a guaranteed 3.xx min, its never going to make much but will never lose anything. I hate risk and I would hate to see money disappear because of speculation in the market.
You can't get too far without risk.

[Sgt Beavis]

the market dropping like this is actually good timing for me in a way.

I just started my first 401k. I've only been paying into it for a couple of months....

Buy LOW. Sell high..

Anyways, thats what I keep telling myself...

[momo stallion]

holy shit. the fed just lowered the interest rate 3/4 of a point!!!!

(both fund rate and discount rates)

[Sgt Beavis]

This is why I'm glad I have my 401k money in a guaranteed 3.xx min, its never going to make much but will never lose anything. I hate risk and I would hate to see money disappear because of speculation in the market.

I'm perfectly fine with risk. It is the unknown quantity of dirty players in Corporate America that I worry about. Those fuckers will rob you blind.

[Denny]

Let's start making predictions... 450-460 down by final bell.

[ayzo]

YEA! GO BENNY!

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/bernanke-helicopter.jpg

LOL DJ futures are still down 405

[Sgt Beavis]

holy shit. the fed just lowered the interest rate 3/4 of a point!!!!

(both fund rate and discount rates)

Hyperinflation, here we come...

you thought gas prices were high now, just wait..

[Denny]

Knee-jerk reactions make the world go 'round!

[Sean88gt]

God forbid the ship has to right itself. Let's not learn one lesson from the past and make sure to repeat them all:mad:

I'll optimistic and say 325 pt drop

[Mychael101]

Hyperinflation, here we come...

you thought gas prices were high now, just wait..
Should be a nice time to jump in on gold. and I was hoping to not see hyperinflation show its head in here. :(

[Sean88gt]

Strap in kids!

[momo stallion]

i miss greenspan. he would have said the market needs correction and he would have let it crash.

[momo stallion]

i dont know which way the market will end up now. i would have said 400 pts down this morning but now there is no telling thanks to the fed.

[thesource]

The market is going to get fucking murdered today ....... does anyone see a correction after the big drop or does it continue for several days or weeks ?

[Sean88gt]

According to FBN
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xh0qD0aA2bY&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xh0qD0aA2bY&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

:D

[slow99]

Had this waiting on me...

Folks-

The markets around the world were in near free fall over this long weekend. Early this morning, The Federal Reserve cut the key interest rate by three-quarters of a percentage point. Even with the Fed stimulus, the market will likely sell off this morning. We expect higher than normal volumes today as customers seek to participate in the volatility on this very important trading session. Much work has been done over the weekend in anticipation of US Markets reaction to the significant downward trends in the foreign markets. We are ready for a big day of trading and thank everyone in advance for their exceptional diligence in focusing on our customers needs.

[Sean88gt]

Only down 250pts a minute in;)

[momo stallion]

Had this waiting on me...

Folks-

The markets around the world were in near free fall over this long weekend. Early this morning, The Federal Reserve cut the key interest rate by three-quarters of a percentage point. Even with the Fed stimulus, the market will likely sell off this morning. We expect higher than normal volumes today as customers seek to participate in the volatility on this very important trading session. Much work has been done over the weekend in anticipation of US Markets reaction to the significant downward trends in the foreign markets. We are ready for a big day of trading and thank everyone in advance for their exceptional diligence in focusing on our customers needs.


where do you work?

[momo stallion]

Only down 250pts a minute in;)


356 pts 2 minutes in.

[momo stallion]

419 pts 3 mins in :eek:

[kangol]

Buy LOW. Sell high..

...or down, sell and up, hold.

[Strychnine]

419 pts 3 mins in :eek:

Shit, it was 443.76 a min ago... back to 407 now.

[AL P]

How did I know the rate cut would happen. lol

Now some of the big players are going to start buying a little here and there.

[momo stallion]

How did I know the rate cut would happen. lol

Now some of the big players are going to start buying a little here and there.


i need funds so i can buy more :(

[Denny]

It's not looking too bad now... right now.

[slow99]

...or down, sell and up, hold.

Buy high...sell higher.

[turkey_85gt]

how can i check to see what the market is at? webite/tv channel? :o

[slow99]

how can i check to see what the market is at? webite/tv channel? :o

CNBC will be the TV station.

Denny, that .vix...go check it out.

[Sean88gt]

We're rebounding! I predict another century of growth!

[Denny]

CNBC will be the TV station.

Denny, that .vix...go check it out.
Just what I figured... can't see it.

[slow99]

Just what I figured... can't see it.

33.75, up 24%

[AdamLX]

how can i check to see what the market is at? webite/tv channel? :o

I watch cnnmoney.com while I am at work.

[Denny]

33.75, up 24%
I tried to call, but I guess they're a little busy. I need to be able to view that.

[Denny]

I watch cnnmoney.com while I am at work.
I stream it live through Scottrade. Getting the full effect, ya know?

[turkey_85gt]

Is it possible that it can close at 150-200? I'm trying to get a better understanding of all this. :o

[slow99]

Is it possible that it can close at 150-200? I'm trying to get a better understanding of all this. :o

Do you mean down 150-200? Absolutely, probably more than that.

[01WhiteCobra]

Crazy day.

Big Ben needs to resign and Paulson needs to take over the Fed.

[Mychael101]

And oil is still trading above $88 a barrell.....

[NEAL]

<!--StartFragment -->

BofA and Wachovia earnings plunge

January 22 2008


<SCRIPT language=javascript type=text/javascript>function floatContent(){var paraNum = "3"paraNum = paraNum - 1;var tb = document.getElementById('floating-con');var nl = document.getElementById('floating-target');if(tb.getElementsByTagName("div").length> 0){if (nl.getElementsByTagName("p").length>= paraNum){nl.insertBefore(tb,nl.getElementsByTagNam e("p")[paraNum]);}else {if (nl.getElementsByTagName("p").length == 3){nl.insertBefore(tb,nl.getElementsByTagName("p")[2]);}else {nl.insertBefore(tb,nl.getElementsByTagName("p")[0]);}}}}</SCRIPT>Bank of America and Wachovia both reported sharply lower fourth quarter earnings as mortgage-related writedowns and higher provisions for loan losses slammed results at both banks.

BofA, the largest US bank by market value, said earnings fell 95 per cent, from $5.26bn, or $1.16 per share, to $268m, or 5 cents per share.

<H4></H4>
The bank, which has said it will pull back sharply in the investment banking business, had trading account losses of $5.44bn, driven by writedowns of collateralised debt obligations. Provision expense increased by $1.74bn largely due to a $1.33bn increase to reserve for credit losses.



Many banks have been increasing their credit loss reserves as US consumers, pinched by declining home values and a slowing economy, have been falling behind on home equity, credit card and auto loans.

”Our fourth quarter results were severely impacted by ongoing dislocations in capital markets and the slowing economy,” said Ken Lewis, BofA chief executive. ”Even given that environment, we certainly are not pleased with our performance. However, we are cautiously optimistic about 2008, though we believe economic growth will be anemic at best in the first half.”

Wachovia said fourth quarter income was $51m, or 3 cents per share, down 98 per cent from $2.3bn, or $1.20 per share last year.

”The continued turmoil in the capital markets and the dramatic change in the credit environment diminished our fourth quarter results substantially,” said Ken Thompson, Wachovia chief executive. “We took active and prudent steps in the second half of the year to deal with the market disruption and credit deterioration, and we believe this allows us to move forward from a position of strength despite the uncertain economic environment.”

Wachovia increased its provision for loan losses from $206m to $1.5bn.

BofA’s stock fell 2.7 per cent to $35.01 while Wachovia was off 1.2 per cent to $30.04 in early trading.

[01WhiteCobra]

And oil is still trading above $88 a barrell.....

But down over $3/bbl since the last close. Oil traders are betting the rate cut doesn't help.

[Denny]

But down over $3/bbl since the last close. Oil traders are betting the rate cut doesn't help.
They're right because it's barking up the wrong tree.

[Slowhand]

apparently i'm the only kid in my entrepreneurship class that is aware of what is going on. my teacher and i are talking about it right now and it seems to be going over everyone's heads.

[Denny]

1/2 way through, not near as bad as I thought.

[GhostTX]

apparently i'm the only kid in my entrepreneurship class that is aware of what is going on. my teacher and i are talking about it right now and it seems to be going over everyone's heads.
Now that's sad. And those people want to be business leaders?

[AdamLX]

What. A. Clusterfuck.

CNN this morning was grim.
CNBC this morning was positive.

Spin cycle!

[Slowhand]

Now that's sad. And those people want to be business leaders?

Probably not. I think it's sad regardless. They think I'm smart becuase I'm aware of what's going on in the world and know what an LLC is :rolleyes: It's really quite sad.

[Denny]

What. A. Clusterfuck.

CNN this morning was grim.
CNBC this morning was positive.

Spin cycle!
Were you also expecting -3/4%? I thought a drop, but not that much.

[Denny]

Probably not. I think it's sad regardless. They think I'm smart becuase I'm aware of what's going on in the world and know what an LLC is :rolleyes: It's really quite sad.
Grade schoolers know what and LLC is. Where the hell do you go to school?!?!

[momo stallion]

apparently i'm the only kid in my entrepreneurship class that is aware of what is going on. my teacher and i are talking about it right now and it seems to be going over everyone's heads.

no one keeps up with current events anymore it seems.

[Nate]

Probably not. I think it's sad regardless. They think I'm smart becuase I'm aware of what's going on in the world and know what an LLC is :rolleyes: It's really quite sad.
Man I see so much of me in yourself!

Not as bad as I thought was going to happen today either.

*edit knowing what an LLC is, is not something to hang your hat on btw.

[01WhiteCobra]

Grade schoolers know what and LLC is. Where the hell do you go to school?!?!

Smith Elementary

[01WhiteCobra]

Man I see so much of me in yourself!

Not as bad as I thought was going to happen today either.

*edit knowing what an LLC is, is not something to hang your hat on btw.

Day aint over. Week ain't over. :D

I suspect alot of funds are long that will use any pop to sell the market. Largest one time rate cut since 1990 and an emergency rate cut at that.

[Denny]

Day aint over. Week ain't over. :D

I suspect alot of funds are long that will use any pop to sell the market.
You can tell that by price to volume. I see a lot of trades being made to do nothing more than move the price, then BAM!

[Nate]

Day aint over. Week ain't over. :D

I suspect alot of funds are long that will use any pop to sell the market. Largest one time rate cut since 1990 and an emergency rate cut at that.
I'll be watching...I am very close to jumping in and start playing the stock game in a few weeks...maybe I should hold off til I'm really ready to know what's going on. :(

[Geor!]

You think now is a good time for me to move all of my money in my 401(k) to a Euro fund?

[01WhiteCobra]

You can tell that by price to volume. I see a lot of trades being made to do nothing more than move the price, then BAM!

Emergency rate cuts are very rare and already the February fed funds futures are pricing in a 90% chance the overnight rates drop to 3% at the end of the month at the regular meeting. Longer term the traders are pricing in an overnight rate of 2.25% mid year.

The question will become was this a good move to shore up confidence in the markets are a desperate move in the "oh shit, we're fucked... category." Traders, at the moment, are saying its an "Oh Shit" move.

Earnings this week will be rather interesting to watch as will be the comments on 2008 during those earning calls. BOA didn't start the week off in a happy state.

[AdamLX]

Were you also expecting -3/4%? I thought a drop, but not that much.

I was figuring a .5% drop and then Bernake still following up with the .5% on 1/30.

I'm very interested to see how they play their hand at the meeting next Wednesday.

[slow99]

Trying to figure my risk/reward with holding AAPL into earnings today.

[ayzo]

LOL just think of how many analysts, accountants, economists, financial advisors, and politicians are going to lose their job because of this. How could they not see it coming?

[PWTRTXSS]

Would this be the right time to invest in a new Corvette?

[01WhiteCobra]

Would this be the right time to invest in a new Corvette?

Well... you never really invest in a car... :D If you got the money, get it.

But doom and gloom aside I don't think the economy is all that bad. Unemployment is still down, the credit markets are in confusion (consumer credit obviously sucks, but bonds/treasuries have been pretty strong) and commodity prices are still near record highs.

Commodity futures are down a little today but until they breakdown the prevailing trend is toward the global economy not breaking down.

All commodities still hitting records.
http://www.crbtrader.com/data.asp?page=chart&sym=CIY0

Grains still hitting records.
http://www.crbtrader.com/data.asp?page=chart&sym=QPY0

When you see a breakdown in grains followed by a breakdown of all commodities its time to start signaling the end of the world.

[Sgt Beavis]

The Fed and the Government are just delaying the enevitable and they are going to make things worse. As we all know, the economy is cyclic and is supposed to recede every once in a while. The fact that the Mortgage fallout has jump started this recession doesn't change anything. Let the recession happen and take actions to shorten or lessen it with sound fiscal policy. But no, instead we're supposed to be happy with letting the dollar hit bottom and inflation go nuts.

These jackasses are going to avoid a recession all right. They'll avoid it by driving us straight into a depression.

[momo stallion]

The Fed and the Government are just delaying the enevitable and they are going to make things worse. As we all know, the economy is cyclic and is supposed to recede every once in a while. The fact that the Mortgage fallout has jump started this recession doesn't change anything. Let the recession happen and take actions to shorten or lessen it with sound fiscal policy. But no, instead we're supposed to be happy with letting the dollar hit bottom and inflation go nuts.

These jackasses are going to avoid a recession all right. They'll avoid it by driving us straight into a depression.


you hit the nail on the head. this is why i said i miss greenspan.

[01WhiteCobra]

you hit the nail on the head. this is why i said i miss greenspan.

Greenspan? Really? Most of the easy money policy over the past 20 years is causing the current pain.

Greenspan understood irrational exeburance better than anyone.

[White trash wagon]

Day aint over. Week ain't over. :D

I suspect alot of funds are long that will use any pop to sell the market. Largest one time rate cut since 1990 and an emergency rate cut at that.

Most financial sites say this is the largest single cut since 1984. As welll as the first unscheduled cut since the post 9/11 restart.

[01WhiteCobra]

Most financial sites say this is the largest single cut since 1984. As welll as the first unscheduled cut since the post 9/11 restart.

Single largest cut since 1984... when the fed fund rate was 11.30%. Alot more wiggle room in rates back then.

I'm sort of upset they did the emergency rate cut. Let some of the excess wash out of the market which may have created a buying opportunity. Nice 5% correction would have been nice and still may happen this afternoon.

The Fed is pushing a string right now. I'll watch and see what the markets do today and tomorrow. If we close down 500 points today its bad. A Fed that allows the market to dictate policy and they don't listen anyway.

The Fed originally had two goals when it was established. Price stability and low unemployment. It now appears to have a third goal of protecting investors. So much for being an independent body.

[White trash wagon]

Single largest cut since 1984... when the fed fund rate was 11.30%. Alot more wiggle room in rates back then.

I'm sort of upset they did the emergency rate cut. Let some of the excess wash out of the market which may have created a buying opportunity. Nice 5% correction would have been nice and still may happen this afternoon.

The Fed is pushing a string right now. I'll watch and see what the markets do today and tomorrow. If we close down 500 points today its bad. A Fed that allows the market to dictate policy and they don't listen anyway.

The Fed originally had two goals when it was established. Price stability and low unemployment. It now appears to have a third goal of protecting investors. So much for being an independent body.

Yes, the Fed overeacted. We need a correction to get rid of the economic deadwood.. But this is an election year & Bernake doesn't want to hurt the Republican candidates.

[momo stallion]

Greenspan? Really? Most of the easy money policy over the past 20 years is causing the current pain.

Greenspan understood irrational exeburance better than anyone.

true greenspan was blamed for that but he wouldnt have cut 3/4 points today. he typically sticks with his annual plans. hell even from the sideline he was calling recession a few weeks ago.

our current staff is trying to fight it too hard. more than likely they will cut 1/4 pt next week and continue next month. i dont agree with this cut either. it needs to naturally hit bottom so investors feel confident.

[AL P]

Yes, the Fed overeacted. We need a correction to get rid of the economic deadwood.. But this is an election year & Bernake doesn't want to hurt the Republican candidates.

They've over reacted for years now. If they hadn't raised rates so fast over the last couple of year we probably wouldn't be in this world of shit.

[FSON]

Is this a bad time to buy a house in Dallas (next 45 days)?

[momo stallion]

Is this a bad time to buy a house in Dallas (next 45 days)?


no, not at all. there will be a few more interest rate drops and the housing market is bottoming so value + low interest rate = damn good deal.

[Paladin]

The DOW was down less than 1% and the NADAQ was down less than 2% just a minute ago. I think this crisis has been averted for now.

BTW FSON, I don't think there has ever been a time when it was unwise to buy a house. The closest I know of was when the interest rates were above 10%, but I was just a kid back then so ask someone who is really old, like 01WC. :p

[Denny]

Is this a bad time to buy a house in Dallas (next 45 days)?
Just be sure to get established with a lender and locked in at a badass rate. Finding your place is easy these days.

[01WhiteCobra]

The DOW was down less than 1% and the NADAQ was down less than 2% just a minute ago. I think this crisis has been averted for now.

BTW FSON, I don't think there has ever been a time when it was unwise to buy a house. The closest I know of was when the interest rates were above 10%, but I was just a kid back then so ask someone who is really old, like 01WC. :p

My first home was right at 10%, 30 year fixed... for A paper and a 80/20 loan! ( early 1985)

Rates dropped that year to 9 1/2 and I was pissed. haha.

[Paladin]

My first home was right at 10%, 30 year fixed... for A paper and a 80/20 loan! ( early 1985)

Rates dropped that year to 9 1/2 and I was pissed. haha.

Damn, I was just finishing up my 4th and final (lol) semester at A&M back then.

[White trash wagon]

Damn, I was just finishing up my 4th and final (lol) semester at A&M back then.

Your an Aggie? that explains a few things. Not that being an Aggie is a bad thing, my wife is an Aggie too.

Scott

[Paladin]

Your an Aggie? that explains a few things. Not that being an Aggie is a bad thing, my wife is an Aggie too.

Scott

Yep, they offered me the best scholarship. I went there not knowing much about it, but I fell in love with the place pretty soon after arriving there.

[01WhiteCobra]

Damn, I was just finishing up my 4th and final (lol) semester at A&M back then.

I was just finishing up my last semester, already had a job and some savings and went head in for my for house... at 65K. Houston was in the shits at the time when oil plunged. Of course, now, Houston is flush with the price of oil. What a difference 20 years makes.


Your an Aggie? that explains a few things. Not that being an Aggie is a bad thing, my wife is an Aggie too.

Scott

;)

[jyro]

Why try to guess the bottom?
Let the market tell you when it has bottomed and it has done nothing to say so.

I haven't a clue where the bottom is, I have to make all trades before 3, I have just been buying low and putting it in LZOEX through my 401. The way I figure it, if I don't get a good rate, it won't be enough to support anything anyway.
I plan on working after retirement . I'll be that old guy handing you a basket at Wallyworld.

[01WhiteCobra]

I haven't a clue where the bottom is, I have to make all trades before 3, I have just been buying low and putting it in LZOEX through my 401. The way I figure it, if I don't get a good rate, it won't be enough to support anything anyway.
I plan on working after retirement . I'll be that old guy handing you a basket at Wallyworld.

Everybody is a little different. I wait until the markets tell me there is a bottom. I'll lose some of the gain but my risk is minimized.

It isn't what you make in trading it is what you keep yourself from losing.

Investing is a little different as long as your time horizon is longer. Who cares if the bottom was 11,900 or 11,100 when your time horizon is 20 years? It does matter if your time horizon is a few months.

[Geor!]

Dear Eric or Jody,

http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4854695&postcount=100

[01WhiteCobra]

Dear Eric or Jody,

http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4854695&postcount=100

Euro fund as in equities or Euro dollars?

Euro dollars have been getting their ass kicked against the dollar all month.

[Geor!]

Euro fund as in equities or Euro dollars?

Euro dollars have been getting their ass kicked against the dollar all month.
US money, European investments.

[Mustangman_2000]

The market looked ugly today. I don't even want to look at my 401K.

Somebody let loose the bulls.

[Mychael101]

My first home was right at 10%, 30 year fixed... for A paper and a 80/20 loan! ( early 1985)

Rates dropped that year to 9 1/2 and I was pissed. haha.
When we built our home several years back we got in at a rate of 6% on a 30 year and thought all our hard work in keeping our credit flawless paid off. Now you can get that a half point better and home builders are throwing incentives to buy homes.... :mad: