Fear is the enemy of reason.

[Zarathustra]

Damn good read in the paper today, Leonard Pitts is damn good at what he does. Finally someone peers into finding the terror behind terrorism and the lengthy laundry list of emotions evoked when people begin consciously and willingly giving up their rights in the name of protection and security. Again, a very interesting read, discuss...

linky (http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/leonard_pitts/story/367497.html)

[Mr Majestyk]

No

[mikeb]

Damn good read in the paper today, Leonard Pitts is damn good at what he does. Finally someone peers into finding the terror behind terrorism and the lengthy laundry list of emotions evoked when people begin consciously and willingly giving up their rights in the name of protection and security. Again, a very interesting read, discuss...

linky (http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/leonard_pitts/story/367497.html)

There has to be a balance between rights granted (and taken away) and protecting the country. Before 9/11 we were on one end of that spectrum, and post 9/11 we have moved toward the other end of that spectrum. As long as the threat remains I suspect we'll stay about where we are now; if the threat subsides it'll probably begin to move back toward pre 9/11 positioning.

We have not had another 9/11 kind of event, and in fact several plots have been thwarted since then, probably in part due to measures put into place since 9/11.

I'm not for sure that fear plays into it so much as prudence, preparation, and determination that another 9/11 will not take place.

[AL P]

A bit of a stretch to compare the current climate to that of internment camps in WWII or the happenings in the McCarthy era. It makes for a great newstory and sells a lot of papers for sure, though.

Bullshit sensationalism in the media bothers me and has done more to damage this country than the current state of civil liberties.

[Zarathustra]

A bit of a stretch to compare the current climate to that of internment camps in WWII or the happenings in the McCarthy era. It makes for a great newstory and sells a lot of papers for sure, though.

Bullshit sensationalism in the media bothers me and has done more to damage this country than the current state of civil liberties.

I think his aim was more to create a historical perspective on how the american populace, by generation, gives into fear and becomes complacent with their rights being taken away under the guise of security. How is that damaging in any way? Desecrating the constitution and therefore the flag that flies over this country by circumventing the rule of law and usurping citizen's rights is loads more damaging than anything Leonard Pitts can say, especially in a single column.

[AL P]

I think his aim was more to create a historical perspective on how the american populace, by generation, gives into fear and becomes complacent with their rights being taken away under the guise of security. How is that damaging in any way? Desecrating the constitution and therefore the flag that flies over this country by circumventing the rule of law and usurping citizen's rights is loads more damaging than anything Leonard Pitts can say, especially in a single column.

I'm not talking about Leonard Pitts specifically, I'm talking about the entire media. The flip side of your point is the fact that IF there is a real threat and there is a new attack, let's say tomorrow, then the media has marginalized the efforts to be prepared by constantly attacking preparation as an "attack on civil rights".

Not only that but where is the parity? This article makes a comparison to WWII when thousands upon thousands of people were rounded up and put into internment camps against their will. To compare that to some wiretaps and some people who aren't even US citizens getting the shit beat out of them at Gitmo is a bit of a stretch to say the least. I can't name one person who has had their phone tapped, can you? Hell, I can't name one person with a phone worth being tapped.

If the FBI wants to listen to me talk to my crazy aunt about canned peaches that is fine. I'm not sure what right I am giving up there but i'm not real concerned yet.

[Muffrazr]

Mother goose nursery rhymes are a gov't conspiracy to instill ideas such as the boy who cried wolf. Thus creating a false sense of fear/security. You choose which side of the spectrum to be on and run with it.


That's all crap, but I wanted to portray the mental picture I got from this.

[Zarathustra]

I'm not talking about Leonard Pitts specifically, I'm talking about the entire media. The flip side of your point is the fact that IF there is a real threat and there is a new attack, let's say tomorrow, then the media has marginalized the efforts to be prepared by constantly attacking preparation as an "attack on civil rights".

Not only that but where is the parity? This article makes a comparison to WWII when thousands upon thousands of people were rounded up and put into internment camps against their will. To compare that to some wiretaps and some people who aren't even US citizens getting the shit beat out of them at Gitmo is a bit of a stretch to say the least. I can't name one person who has had their phone tapped, can you? Hell, I can't name one person with a phone worth being tapped.

If the FBI wants to listen to me talk to my crazy aunt about canned peaches that is fine. I'm not sure what right I am giving up there but i'm not real concerned yet.

Fucking hilarious, that canned peach bit was good. I'm not quite sure what you read, but this story started with an interview about a woman's life during childhood. She grew up in Argentina which was under the power of military dictatorships that ruled from around 1976 to 1983, aka the Dirty War. I see what you're saying though, fear IS a double-edged sword. I can't name anybody whose phone is being tapped, but then again how would I know their phone was being tapped? It's almost like a positive feedback situation when you think about fear, the more you think about it, the more fearful you become. Fear is associated so heavily with our fight-or-flight response, which is controlled by our sympathetic autonomic nervous system. Several things occur in our bodies when reacting to a fight or flight stimulus. Seems as if fear is the emotion we feel when these things, physiologically, are taking place in our bodies. Don't quote me on that, but it seems that way to me. So my question is this: What portion of fear is actually consciously made into thought, and how much of the fear that we encounter is unconscious and not acknowledged as fear outright?

[Zarathustra]

Mother goose nursery rhymes are a gov't conspiracy to instill ideas such as the boy who cried wolf. Thus creating a false sense of fear/security. You choose which side of the spectrum to be on and run with it.


That's all crap, but I wanted to portray the mental picture I got from this.

I used to think that when I was a kid, not necessarily the boy who cried wolf bit, but the idea that nursery rhymes were fabricated by the man himself in a dastardly attempt to sway a child's mind into thinking one way or another. The same is true with religion and children, only several hundred thousand people (adults) still believe that christ will come out of the clouds one day to save all of those who devoted their lives to him... This goes back to my earlier point which inserted various half-truths, spun information, and deception through over-information into factual truth in an attempt to cloud the original unmolested truth. There's gotta be a name for that, maybe I'll just make one up...

Overtruthing?
Truthdoctoring?
Truthblurring?
Truthshading?
Truthmasking?
Truthsmearing?

[JP135]

I used to think that when I was a kid, not necessarily the boy who cried wolf bit, but the idea that nursery rhymes were fabricated by the man himself in a dastardly attempt to sway a child's mind into thinking one way or another.

So were you some precociously jaded kid, always mistrustful of adults, constantly wondering what kind of scam they were running on you?

[Zarathustra]

So were you some precociously jaded kid, always mistrustful of adults, constantly wondering what kind of scam they were running on you?

To a certain extent I guess I was, but I wasn't raised like most american kids.

[black01gt]

Bullshit sensationalism in the media bothers me and has done more to damage this country than the current state of civil liberties.
Fear sells. And if a certain administration wanted to use it for massive manipulation to promote "side agendas" it would work well too.

I can say with complete conviction that our government scares the shit oughta me and I have zero confidence in it. None.