Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona

[ScottJ]

Freaking awesome..


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Illegal immigrants in Arizona, frustrated with a flagging economy and tough new legislation cracking down on their employers, are returning to their home countries or trying their luck in other states.

For months, immigrants have taken a wait-and-see attitude toward the state's new employer-sanctions law, which takes effect January 1. The voter-approved legislation is an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants in Arizona, the busiest crossing point along the U.S.-Mexico border.

And by all appearances, it's starting to work.

"People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors -- they're moving back to Mexico," said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."

Martin Herrera, a 40-year-old illegal immigrant and masonry worker who lives in Camp Verde, 70 miles north of Phoenix, said he is planning to return to Mexico as soon as he ties up loose ends after living here for four years.

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and the oppressive environment," he said. "I'll be better in my country."

He called the employer-sanctions law "absurd."

"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."

There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona, especially now with many returning home for normal holiday visits. But economists, immigration lawyers and people who work in the immigrant community agree it's happening.

State Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, the author of the employer sanctions law, said his intent was to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona.

"I'm hoping they will self-deport," Pearce said. "They broke the law. They're criminals."

Under the employer sanctions law, businesses found to have knowingly hired illegal workers will be subject to sanctions from probation to a 10-day suspension of their business licenses. A second violation would bring permanent revocation of the license.

Nancy-Jo Merritt, an immigration lawyer who primarily represents employers, said her clients already have started to fire workers who can't prove they are in the country legally.
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"Workers are being fired, of course," she said. "Nobody wants to find out later on that they've got somebody working for them who's not here legally."

When immigrants don't have jobs, they don't stick around, said Dawn McLaren, a research economist at Arizona State University who specializes in illegal immigration.

She said the flagging economy, particularly in the construction industry, also is contributing to an immigrant exodus.

"As the jobs dwindle and the environment becomes more unpleasant in more ways than one, you then decide what to do, and perhaps leaving looks like a good idea," she said. "And certainly that creates a problem, because as people leave, they take the jobs they created with them."

Pearce disagreed that the Arizona economy will suffer after illegal immigrants leave, saying there will be less crime, lower taxes, less congestion, smaller classroom sizes and shorter lines in emergency rooms.

"We have a free market. It'll adjust," he said. "Americans will be much better off."

He said he's not surprised illegal immigrants are leaving the state and predicts that more will go once the employer-sanctions law takes effect next month.

"It's attrition by enforcement," he said. "As you make this an unfriendly state for lawbreakers, I'm hoping they will pick up and leave.

[jefehbk]

That is awesome....somebody in the Texas Congress needs to adopt that policy.

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and the oppressive environment," he said. "I'll be better in my country."
He called the employer-sanctions law "absurd."

this was my favorite part of the article. I dont know if it is oppressive, but i like it.

[ScottJ]

Despite the redundancy of passing law, to enforce existing law (which is totally dysfunctional in its own right) I can't wait to see the effect next year, and five years out in that state.

Should be the topic of conversation for civil statisticians for quite some time.

What I don't understand for the life of me is what should be so obvious. Its apparent that living/working in the US is desirable for many reasons. Why not become a citizen and reap the rewards?

Answer: 1) Cost, Lazy, I'm a leach I want all the benefits and none of the civic responsibility, or perhaps 2) Immigration policy is a joke, and nobody respects it or our national borders.

[D]

Good for AZ. Senator Kyl is kicking ass over there.

[32VfromHell]

good for them.

I like the squaking about the "motor" . Well, by that standards, they have been fucking mexico's motor by leaving it and coming here. If they put their hard work into improving mexico, they wont need to come across here illegally, or they can wait and apply citizenship.

[mikeb]

The "motor" analogy is BS. The job has to get done one way or another. The employer will have to raise pay or will have to innovate some new way to do the job using technology. Yes, it will suck for some employers but then again they have been working the system for years paying substandard wages with no benefits and pocketing the difference. Now in arizona they are on a level playing field with other businesses, labor wise. I'd like to see that happen here in texas as well. I'm surprised that arizona did not find themselves in court, with some activist judge putting a stay on the law.

[forever_frost]

That should be a national policy

[Slowhand]

Pearce disagreed that the Arizona economy will suffer after illegal immigrants leave, saying there will be less crime, lower taxes, less congestion, smaller classroom sizes and shorter lines in emergency rooms.


prices for services of companys who employed illegal immigrants will rise slightly at first, but the effect on the economy shouldn't be too bad.

That should be a national policy

quote of the day...well, bad as a quote, but well said.

[Mustangman_2000]

Good news. There is hope.

[DFWtechie]

good deal my fucking sister who I no longer talk to is out there, she has 2 kids from and illegal which I was I do not speak to her, she married him the state knows he is illegal and has got 2 DWI's :eek: and as long as he pays his fines every month he can stay.
I left that state 10 yrs ago and thought I may never go back but if this turns out to be a good thing in Az I may have to pack up and relocate back to phoenix.

[TexasStreetCars.com]

Good riddance mother fuckers! :D

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[OrangeCrush]

what a bunch of fags on this thread suck my nuts bunch of haters..... :cool:

[black01gt]

Good riddance mother fuckers! :D

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
They've been learning about what's getting ready to happen to the US economy and decided..."fuck it, we'll take our chances with mexico!" :D

[black01gt]

what a bunch of fags on this thread suck my nuts bunch of haters..... :cool:
You a wetback or just want to throw your own kids under the bus to "lend a helping hand"?

[GT Dan]

You a wetback or just want to throw your own kids under the bus to "lend a helping hand"?

You should be ashamed of yourself, you arent being a very good democrat. :D

[bcoop]

You a wetback or just want to throw your own kids under the bus to "lend a helping hand"?



I'll give you 3 guesses and the first two don't count....

[bcoop]

what a bunch of fags on this thread suck my nuts bunch of haters..... :cool:



Haters? Because you're stealing money that I worked hard for? Fuck you, leach.



Good fucking riddance. Now you can go steal each other's shit back in the motherland.

[TexasStreetCars.com]

Anybody that doesn't have a problem with the illegal immigration situation can hug a nut :cool:

Including you, you wetback. Don't call me a hater. If me hating something that is destroying our nation makes me a hater, by all means, I am.

[black01gt]

Anybody that doesn't have a problem with the illegal immigration situation can hug a nut :cool:

Including you, you wetback. Don't call me a hater. If me hating something that is destroying our nation makes me a hater, by all means, I am.
It could have, and for decades was done properly but noooo...

Yep, count me in. I'm a hater too. Adios muchachos. Puto pendejos!

[clean90gt]

i also think that it should be national policy those bitches need to go back to the motherland!

[forever_frost]

So, about that wall we were going to build across the southern border

[ScottJ]

what a bunch of fags on this thread suck my nuts bunch of haters..... :cool:

I think I can speak for the rest of us on this one; if you have an SSN and pay taxes, nobody here has a problem.

[egnorant]

While my thoughts on this vary, I have been thrashed for supporting "Pest Control" measures for illegal aliens.
The choices are:
A. Get used to it and welcome the infestation. Current policy!
B. Insure they have no desire to leave from where you want them to be. Sounds like Mexico needs to be a better place...not likely!
C. Insure that they have no desire to be where you don't want them to be.
No jobs, no free health care, no schools, no welfare, no homes, no drivers licence..etc!
D. Insure that they have no access to the places you wish to be free of infestation.
Big ass fence. moat or whatever. My favorite was a wildlife park..lion and tigers and bears Oh My!!
E. Kill them!

These are just the rules for pest control!
Choose as many as needed.

Bruce

[Zarathustra]

Damn people, what did Mexicans ever do to you?

There's so much blind racism in here you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. To wish harm and exile against your fellow man in the name of blind social and political stigmas driven by stereotypes and the typical american sentiment is downright selfish and rude. What happened to love, brotherhood, and fellowship? Mexicans are just like anybody else, they're just form another part of the world. Racism will not get you anywhere, expecially if you think of them as pests and as something that has to be controlled. This will never solve problems. Mexicans bring along with them a vast, deeply rooted, rich culture of arts, music, dance, entertainment and most importantly food. Without the mexican people and their influence on society, this country would not be the same. And who are you guys to say that we would be better off with out them? Come on, take a look at the situation from a different perspective, their's. On a macro scale, they're not doing much harm, they just aim at making a nice life for themselves--just like everyone else. What drives you people to have such deep-seated hate for these people? What is the cause for so much blind ethnocentricism?

[staticX]

Damn people, what did Mexicans ever do to you?

There's so much blind racism in here you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. To wish harm and exile against your fellow man in the name of blind social and political stigmas driven by stereotypes and the typical american sentiment is downright selfish and rude. What happened to love, brotherhood, and fellowship? Mexicans are just like anybody else, they're just form another part of the world. Racism will not get you anywhere, expecially if you think of them as pests and as something that has to be controlled. This will never solve problems. Mexicans bring along with them a vast, deeply rooted, rich culture of arts, music, dance, entertainment and most importantly food. Without the mexican people and their influence on society, this country would not be the same. And who are you guys to say that we would be better off with out them? Come on, take a look at the situation from a different perspective, their's. On a macro scale, they're not doing much harm, they just aim at making a nice life for themselves--just like everyone else. What drives you people to have such deep-seated hate for these people? What is the cause for so much blind ethnocentricism?

Americans are tired of people leaching of the system, taking serves away from the citzens, not paying taxes, forcing schools to teach Spanish, using up free health care and on top of that have mass protest when things don't go there way. You don't see anything wrong with that?

Tell me do you want the Government to outlaw the term Illegal and just open up the borders? And what do you mean this country would not be the same? You think America is so dependent on Mexicans that it would become helpless to whip its own ass if the Mexicans were not around?

[Mustangman_2000]

Damn people, what did Mexicans ever do to you?

There's so much blind racism in here you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. To wish harm and exile against your fellow man in the name of blind social and political stigmas driven by stereotypes and the typical american sentiment is downright selfish and rude. What happened to love, brotherhood, and fellowship? Mexicans are just like anybody else, they're just form another part of the world. Racism will not get you anywhere, expecially if you think of them as pests and as something that has to be controlled. This will never solve problems. Mexicans bring along with them a vast, deeply rooted, rich culture of arts, music, dance, entertainment and most importantly food. Without the mexican people and their influence on society, this country would not be the same. And who are you guys to say that we would be better off with out them? Come on, take a look at the situation from a different perspective, their's. On a macro scale, they're not doing much harm, they just aim at making a nice life for themselves--just like everyone else. What drives you people to have such deep-seated hate for these people? What is the cause for so much blind ethnocentricism?

There are many reaons...

One of the paramount reasons being the profound social and economic costs of illegal immigration. Not to mention the fact that mexican nationals are responsible for a large part of drugs smuggled into the U.S.

They are doing a tremendous harm on many levels. Criminal investigations involving undocumented illegals are very difficult to pursue. When a illegal rear ends you at a stop light, it most certainly does harm when they have no insurance and in some cases no drivers license.

You sound like you see the world through an Al Sharpton style paradigm. Not everything is about racism. A lot of the times it's about right and wrong. Being a minority should entitle you to anything. Citizenship should be earned, not taken by brute force and by exploiting the system and tax payers of this country.

[Mustangman_2000]

Damn people, what did Mexicans ever do to you?

There's so much blind racism in here you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. To wish harm and exile against your fellow man in the name of blind social and political stigmas driven by stereotypes and the typical american sentiment is downright selfish and rude. What happened to love, brotherhood, and fellowship? Mexicans are just like anybody else, they're just form another part of the world. Racism will not get you anywhere, expecially if you think of them as pests and as something that has to be controlled. This will never solve problems. Mexicans bring along with them a vast, deeply rooted, rich culture of arts, music, dance, entertainment and most importantly food. Without the mexican people and their influence on society, this country would not be the same. And who are you guys to say that we would be better off with out them? Come on, take a look at the situation from a different perspective, their's. On a macro scale, they're not doing much harm, they just aim at making a nice life for themselves--just like everyone else. What drives you people to have such deep-seated hate for these people? What is the cause for so much blind ethnocentricism?

There are many reasons...

One of the paramount reasons being the profound social and economic costs of illegal immigration. Not to mention the fact that mexican nationals are responsible for a large part of drugs smuggled into the U.S.

They are doing a tremendous harm on many levels. Criminal investigations involving undocumented illegals are very difficult to pursue. When a illegal rear ends you at a stop light, it most certainly does harm when they have no insurance and in some cases no drivers license.

You sound like you see the world through an Al Sharpton style paradigm. Not everything is about racism. A lot of the times it's about right and wrong. Being a minority shouldnt entitle you to anything. Citizenship should be earned, not taken by brute force and by exploiting the system and tax payers of this country.

[black01gt]

While my thoughts on this vary, I have been thrashed for supporting "Pest Control" measures for illegal aliens.
The choices are:

C. Insure that they have no desire to be where you don't want them to be.
No jobs, no free health care, no schools, no welfare, no homes, no drivers licence..etc!

These are just the rules for pest control!
Choose as many as needed.

Bruce
"C" is the only one that will work. That's the plan Ron Paul has stated from the beginning. Take away their reason for being here and they ain't here.

* Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
* Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
* No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
* No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
* End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
* Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

RON PAUL 2008

[staticX]

Also why do people that support illegals use the old tired clutch that your racist for wanting illegals out

[Zarathustra]

I meant to get at the deep rooted personal feelings all of you display. The fact that somebody else is affected means enough for you to hate them in turn. I meant how have you guys been personally affected by the growing population of mexican people. Personally. Personally. Personally affected. You guys talk like some mexican dude on a coke binge raped your mom. The problem won't solve itself by throwing hate and intolerance at it...

[line-em-up]

I meant to get at the deep rooted personal feelings all of you display. The fact that somebody else is affected means enough for you to hate them in turn. I meant how have you guys been personally affected by the growing population of mexican people. Personally. Personally. Personally affected. You guys talk like some mexican dude on a coke binge raped your mom. The problem won't solve itself by throwing hate and intolerance at it...

Here's an example.

Just a few days ago, an illegal hit my sister and totalled her car. If he hadn't been here in the first place, it wouldn't have happened. Now she doesn't have a car and insurance is going to fuck her too.

[Zarathustra]

Solution.
Make tougher laws on driver responsibility, liability for accidents. This would undoubtedly deter some if not most of the people who drive without financial responsibility to take the necessary steps toward acquiring insurance. This problem lies with the department of transportation, as the uninsured driver who hit your sister could have been of any nationality. Only the fact that it was an uninsured mexican that hit her makes it an immigration issue, that is where racism comes in to rear its ugly head...

[line-em-up]

Solution.
Make tougher laws on driver responsibility, liability for accidents. This would undoubtedly deter some if not most of the people who drive without financial responsibility to take the necessary steps toward acquiring insurance. This problem lies with the department of transportation, as the uninsured driver who hit your sister could have been of any nationality. Only the fact that it was an uninsured mexican that hit her makes it an immigration issue, that is where racism comes in to rear its ugly head...

Not really. It's true that it could have been any nationality. I don't care if he was from mars, he was still here illegally. Thus, it IS an immigration issue. How is that racist?

And, how are tougher laws going to help? If the guy doesn't have insurance, or a license, it won't matter what the law is, my sister is still screwed and has no recourse to make him pay for it. He is already breaking the law by being here and not having the required insurance and drivers license. Do you think more stringent laws are going to matter to him if he is already breaking several laws anyway? The only thing that would really work is deportation and that doesn't work at the moment because he will be back in 3 days.

Irving was doing a good thing by turning ALL undocumented drivers over to ICE to let them sort out the problem, but that was called racist. That was getting tougher, as you recommend. Is that what you had in mind? What is your opinion on that?

The problem with your solution is it addresses the symptom and not the cause of the problem. We need to get to the root of the problem instead of trying to come up with a million solutions to fix the multitude of problems that we face after the fact.

[Inphamous]

lol all i see is biggoted comments with no facts to back them up only talking points.

"Haters? Because you're stealing money that I worked hard for? F@ck you, leach."
huh? what? how?

"If me hating something that is destroying our nation makes me a hater, by all means, I am."
How are they destroying your country?

Well, go dig around and find your facts but while your at it dont forget to get both sides to the story. Where does all the tax money go that these illegals pay? HUH? Yes people they pay taxes. I mean we do all agree they have jobs you personally dont want right? and we do agree they get a check from these employers right? and these employers do pay payroll taxes on these fake ssn's right? like FIT, Medicare and Social Security(hmmm...maybe they will help fund my dwindling social security benefits if i ever need em)? We still on the same page? ok good. Ok so after all that they are not entitled to the same healthcare services that a bum on the street without a JOB is entitled to? doesnt make alot of sense but whatever.

Please! the only one getting screwed on this deal is DFWtechie's sis...lol

[line-em-up]

lol all i see is biggoted comments with no facts to back them up only talking points.

"Haters? Because you're stealing money that I worked hard for? F@ck you, leach."
huh? what? how?

People work and pay taxes for the benefit of US citizens. Illegals get to use those services without paying their fair share of taxes.

"If me hating something that is destroying our nation makes me a hater, by all means, I am."
How are they destroying your country? I don't feel like regurgatating all of the examples that have been discussed on here for your lazy ass, so use the search button.

Well, go dig around and find your facts but while your at it dont forget to get both sides to the story. Where does all the tax money go that these illegals pay? HUH? You're assuming they pay taxes.You're assuming the illegal isn't paid in cash under the table when possible. You know damn well that happens OFTEN.

Yes people they pay taxes. I mean we do all agree they have jobs you personally dont want right? and we do agree they get a check from these employers right? and these employers do pay payroll taxes on these fake ssn's right? like FIT, Medicare and Social Security(hmmm...maybe they will help fund my dwindling social security benefits if i ever need em)?

You said it yourself. They use fake SS#'s. Although they may loose out on furture benefits, so does the person that they stole that number from, because whenever uncle sam realizes the number was used by more than one person, he will keep all of the money for himself. So, using a fake # is very damaging to the real owner of it.

We still on the same page? ok good. Ok so after all that they are not entitled to the same healthcare services that a bum on the street without a JOB is entitled to? doesnt make alot of sense but whatever.

The illegal put themselves in that situation, so they can't try to justify it by comparing themselves to a LEGAL citizen. The bum is a US citizen and has a right as an American citizen. The law breaking illegal does not.

Please! the only one getting screwed on this deal is DFWtechie's sis...lol

Perhaps, if you weren't blinded by your allegiance to the people you feel so sorry for, you would see the problems that illegals are causing.

[Inphamous]

Thats funny ive read the entire thread and all i see is drain this leach that but where are the material facts? And my lazy just went back through your post and dont see any proven facts just statements.

"People work and pay taxes for the benefit of US citizens. Illegals get to use those services without paying their fair share of taxes."
Lol you are truly and idiot. How does anyone with a ssn get around paying their fair share of taxes when 99% of the time its coming right out by payroll?

Seriously, present some facts to back your allegations.

[Inphamous]

My allegiance is to this beautiful country, i just dont see what your talking about. I agree that we should enforce the border, heck build a wall. But dont tell me these people are destroying when they are obviously contributing alot more. If someone in office had the gal to do something about it, it would be awesome but they dont. And they never will, because its profiteable to someone and thats just the bottom line to alot of people. Point the finger at lawmakers and enforcers...big business, but you cant honestly fault someone for trying to make something better of themselves.

[line-em-up]

Thats funny ive read the entire thread and all i see is drain this leach that but where are the material facts? And my lazy just went back through your post and dont see any proven facts just statements.

"People work and pay taxes for the benefit of US citizens. Illegals get to use those services without paying their fair share of taxes."
Lol you are truly and idiot. How does anyone with a ssn get around paying their fair share of taxes when 99% of the time its coming right out by payroll?

Seriously, present some facts to back your allegations.

You obviously haven't searched the site (not just this thread), or you would have seen this discussed a million times. If you want facts, just go here. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=illegal+immigration+facts If you are so nieve to think that most of the illegals are using a ss# and aren't paid under the table, you need to educate yourself and come back later. Even if they are paying taxes, I don't care, they are here ILLEGALY. Just like a stranger moving into your house without your permission, you did not invite them and expect them to leave. I'm not going to waste anymore time with you because I can see it will be a lost cause. You joined here for one reason and that is to promote your pro mexican agenda of "raciism". Go ahead and keep trying to convince whomever and when you report back to LULAC or whomever you work with you can tell them that crew at dfwstangs said they can suck a big dick.

[Inphamous]

Lol wow, first of all you just pointed to a keyword search "illegal immigration facts" and checked out the first 2 sites. lol is this where you get your information? Please tell me you have better sources like a .gov or something? Have you even been to any of the sites you linked? Lets make this easy, how are you personally affected by illegal immigrants? Oh yeah and ive been a member since April.

[Inphamous]

Oh and btw I agree with you on LULAC.

[Zarathustra]

I like how he averted argument with you because he got frustrated that someone doesn't agree with him. Fucking simpleton...

[rray]

Lol wow, first of all you just pointed to a keyword search "illegal immigration facts" and checked out the first 2 sites. lol is this where you get your information? Please tell me you have better sources like a .gov or something? Have you even been to any of the sites you linked? Lets make this easy, how are you personally affected by illegal immigrants? Oh yeah and ive been a member since April.


Three years ago I had my car slammed into by a drunk Illegal with no Drivers License and no Insurance. Pickup bed was full of beer cans. His passenger got out and ran when he saw me pickup the phone. I tried to talk to the guy and guess what? No english. Cops couldnt do anything about it since it was in a parking lot and considered private property. So my insurance had to eat the bill which cause my rates to go up and the wreck to go on my record, plus I had to get checked out at the ER which I had to pay for, but only after waiting in line for hours behind all the other illegals with no insurance to get themselves looked at which causes my healthcare costs to go up every damn year. So HELL YES I have a problem with them.

P.S. --Was it you that got out and ran???? :mad:

[rray]

I was just kidding about it being you that ran btw.

[Inphamous]

Wow and I thought it was abusive medical malpractice suits that are requiring doctors to carry costly insurance and in turn putting health care cost through the roof that caused my health insurance rates to go up. I must be stuck in the land of Oz. Would you feel better if it was a legal citizen without insurance that hit you? Would it have changed anything?

[Inphamous]

And even if he was insured your insurance company would still stick it to you since your now a high risk driver.

[rray]

And even if he was insured your insurance company would still stick it to you since your now a high risk driver.

Never even been involved in a car accident until the Illegal got me.

[rray]

Wow and I thought it was abusive medical malpractice suits that are requiring doctors to carry costly insurance and in turn putting health care cost through the roof that caused my health insurance rates to go up. I must be stuck in the land of Oz. Would you feel better if it was a legal citizen without insurance that hit you? Would it have changed anything?

And yes btw it would have. If they were a legal citizen I couldve sued them and tried to recover some costs.

[big_tiger]

Is this a correct statement, because this is the way I see things?
The things that illegals (the ones that are paid cash) are sucking money from, are things they don't pay taxes for. They pay taxes on goods (gas, pizza, beans), and don't have taxes deducted from their pay checks.

I like option C

[rray]

Just who do you think is paying all these medical bills that are being racked up by people with no insurance?

[rray]

Look, I've got nothing against people immigrating here and trying to make a better life for themselves. Hell, thats the whole premise of America. But PLEASE do it right. Register for citizenship, learn english, carry insurance, and pay your taxes.

[thesource]

Damn whats up with the noobies raising hell on this thread ???

[rray]

Damn whats up with the noobies raising hell on this thread ???

cough *illegal* cough.

[Inphamous]

"Look, I've got nothing against people immigrating here and trying to make a better life for themselves. Hell, thats the whole premise of America. But PLEASE do it right. Register for citizenship, learn english, carry insurance, and pay your taxes."

Thank you, I can and do respect that. My gripe is the biggoted comments with no facts to back them up.

[line-em-up]

cough *illegal* cough.

I doubt they are illegal, at least not one of the regular ones. They write too well. Whatever they are, there is no winning an argument against them because they are not going to be convinced by anything we say.

[iluvmud]

ok so ive read through all this and the sad thing is you people automatically point to Hispanics......... so immigrants from other countries are not illegal? other thing is everything you people pinned on "illegals" can easily be turned on that trailer park redneck who refuses to pay taxes, or the black woman with 4 kids and doesnt want to work and is manipulating our welfare system.... illegals dont get welfare and free health care morons that would mean they would have to register WITH THE GOVT. so if you want to complain about dumb "people"(i.e. whites, blacks, hispanics, etc.etc.) in general who manipulate our system, go ahead......... but it kinda shows your ignorance when you accuse the "illegals" of doing all this.....

[big_tiger]

ok so ive read through all this and the sad thing is you people automatically point to Hispanics......... so immigrants from other countries are not illegal? other thing is everything you people pinned on "illegals" can easily be turned on that trailer park redneck who refuses to pay taxes, or the black woman with 4 kids and doesnt want to work and is manipulating our welfare system.... illegals dont get welfare and free health care morons that would mean they would have to register WITH THE GOVT. so if you want to complain about dumb "people"(i.e. whites, blacks, hispanics, etc.etc.) in general who manipulate our system, go ahead......... but it kinda shows your ignorance when you accuse the "illegals" of doing all this.....

Go to Parkland Hospital and tell me if illegals dont get free health care.

I scanned thru the thread again and only saw one spanish directed comment once, and it was toward a person on the board, not about the situation. There was one more, but it in defense of the illegal mexicans. :rolleyes:

[iluvmud]

Go to Parkland Hospital and tell me if illegals dont get free health care. Find me records of that please.....

I scanned thru the thread again and only saw one spanish directed comment once, and it was toward a person on the board, not about the situation. There was one more, but it in defense of the illegal mexicans. :rolleyes: you might want to re-scan the site.......

[line-em-up]

Find me records of that please.....

.....

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp

The average patient in Parkland's maternity wards is 25 years old, married and giving birth to her second child. She is also an illegal immigrant. By law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based on their immigration status or ability to pay. OK, fine. That doesn't mean they should receive better care than everyday, middle-class American citizens. But at Parkland Hospital, they do.

Parkland Memorial Hospital has nine prenatal clinics. NINE. The Dallas Morning News article followed a Hispanic woman who was a patient at one of the clinics and pregnant with her third child — her previous two were also born at Parkland. Her first two deliveries were free and the Mexican native was grateful because it would have cost $200 to have them in Mexico. This time, the hospital wants her to pay $10 per visit and $100 for the delivery but she was unsure if she could come up with the money. Not that it matters, the hospital won't turn her away. (I wonder why they even bother asking at this point.)

How long has this been going on? What are the long-term effects? Well, another subject of the article was born at Parkland in 1986 shortly after her mother entered the U.S. illegally — now she is having her own child there as well. (That's right, she's technically a U.S. citizen.) These women receive free prenatal care including medication, nutrition, birthing classes and child care classes. They also get freebies such as car seats, bottles, diapers and formula.
Most of these things are available to American citizens as well but only for low-income applicants and even then, the red tape involved is almost insurmountable.

Because these women are illegal immigrants they do not have to provide any sort of legitimate identification — no proof of income. An American citizen would have to provide a social security number which would reveal their annual income — an illegal immigrant need only claim to be poor and the hospital must take them at their word.

[iluvmud]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp

The average patient in Parkland's maternity wards is 25 years old, married and giving birth to her second child. She is also an illegal immigrant. By law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based on their immigration status or ability to pay. OK, fine. That doesn't mean they should receive better care than everyday, middle-class American citizens. But at Parkland Hospital, they do.

Parkland Memorial Hospital has nine prenatal clinics. NINE. The Dallas Morning News article followed a Hispanic woman who was a patient at one of the clinics and pregnant with her third child — her previous two were also born at Parkland. Her first two deliveries were free and the Mexican native was grateful because it would have cost $200 to have them in Mexico. This time, the hospital wants her to pay $10 per visit and $100 for the delivery but she was unsure if she could come up with the money. Not that it matters, the hospital won't turn her away. (I wonder why they even bother asking at this point.)

How long has this been going on? What are the long-term effects? Well, another subject of the article was born at Parkland in 1986 shortly after her mother entered the U.S. illegally — now she is having her own child there as well. (That's right, she's technically a U.S. citizen.) These women receive free prenatal care including medication, nutrition, birthing classes and child care classes. They also get freebies such as car seats, bottles, diapers and formula.
Most of these things are available to American citizens as well but only for low-income applicants and even then, the red tape involved is almost insurmountable.

Because these women are illegal immigrants they do not have to provide any sort of legitimate identification — no proof of income. An American citizen would have to provide a social security number which would reveal their annual income — an illegal immigrant need only claim to be poor and the hospital must take them at their word.

nice, so she was born at parkland too???

now since you did so well at finding this, now see how many hits you get on U.S. citizens who do the same thing, apparently they do since they need the ssn to prove that they have no money which is why they get denied......

[lowthreeohz]

LMAO i read an article on Parkland hospital sometime last year, they said something like 74% of all births there were illegals. How the fuck does that NOT affect us?? Free healthcare, and now a child who is a citizen solely because his mother broke a law to get here? Free lunch at school (bc mom has 3 other kids and cant work),lower property values...etc etc etc. It's dispicable.


edit:

A patient survey indicated 70% of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants.<SUP class=reference id=_ref-2>[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Hospital#_note-2)</SUP>. The yearly tally for 2005 was "at least 56%".

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Hospital "Controversy" Heading at the bottom of the page.


Yes, it's hurting us. It's blind ignorance to think otherwise.

[lowthreeohz]

nice, so she was born at parkland too???

now since you did so well at finding this, now see how many hits you get on U.S. citizens who do the same thing, apparently they do since they need the ssn to prove that they have no money which is why they get denied......




read what i just posted...

[line-em-up]

nice, so she was born at parkland too???

now since you did so well at finding this, now see how many hits you get on U.S. citizens who do the same thing, apparently they do since they need the ssn to prove that they have no money which is why they get denied......

I don't need to because they are US citizens. Thus, they have a right to use whatever benefits we may have. They are here LEGALLY. You can't give a handout to everyone in the world. You have to draw a line somewhere. Being a legal citizen seems like a good place to draw that line.

[rray]

illegals dont get welfare and free health care morons that would mean they would have to register WITH THE GOVT.


They obtain citizens of the United States Social Security numbers and use them. Have you been living under a rock or what?

[lowthreeohz]

I just posted hard proof that on average over 1/2 of the births at parkland are to illegals.

Does he think they're coming over to give birth in Irving, and then go back to Mexico?

Iluvmud, seriously if you feel that way then go live south of the border too.

[big_tiger]

Find me records of that please.....

lol I dont need records I have seen it at Parkland. For a long time GF could only afford to use the Parkland health care system. The wait is horrible, and it is because every illegal in the area goes there. They don't turn them down.
Thanks guys for suppling records. :D


you might want to re-scan the site.......

You said the thread, not the site. ;)

[iluvmud]

its unethical to turn away pregnant women, and if you say you have no problems doing that, that once again shows your ignorance....... i also like the fact how no one disagreed with me at the fact that you guys are pretty much directing your comments towards hispanics.... and you cannot file for welfare W/O registering through the govt. so once again your logic is flawed. Its a shame to know that you people dont approve of someone trying to put themselves and their families in a better situation, just like your ancestors did at one point in history.

These are the only points i am trying to make.

[lowthreeohz]

its unethical to turn away pregnant women, and if you say you have no problems doing that, that once again shows your ignorance....... i also like the fact how no one disagreed with me at the fact that you guys are pretty much directing your comments towards hispanics.... and you cannot file for welfare W/O registering through the govt. so once again your logic is flawed. Its a shame to know that you people dont approve of someone trying to put themselves and their families in a better situation, just like your ancestors did at one point in history.

These are the only points i am trying to make.

It's unethical of them to break the laws to seek a FREE RIDE when it comes to affording to pay for their own fuck up (child).

We're not disagreeing with you about it being directed at mexicans, because it aint fuckin asian, canadian, british, israeli, or any other fucking nationality that's the problem. It's the hispanics, plain and fucking simple.

You can skirt the system to get food stamps, fake SSN's, and all sorts of shit like that. Do you really think the system is foolproof?

Your logic is flawed - we all condone and would LOVE for them to come here... LEGALLY. That's the problem - come here legally, pay your taxes and be merry. That's what we want. Is there any possible way I can simplify that for you any more?

[iluvmud]

I just posted hard proof that on average over 1/2 of the births at parkland are to illegals.

Does he think they're coming over to give birth in Irving, and then go back to Mexico?

Iluvmud, seriously if you feel that way then go live south of the border too.


youre right Low, illegals are a problem lets send them all back so you can get your dish washing job back which you probably did a half ass job which is why you were replaced to begin with............ you posted hard proof that its unethical in the US to turn away pregnant women.... wow youre smart you so got me...... and no you dumbass i dont think that, you posted about child birth which is about all you have to offer....... sad thing is its stupid people like you that give america a bad name, you want to personally attack someone you dont even know, so why dont you just have yourself another keystone light, and educate yourself before you criticize.


It's unethical of them to break the laws to seek a FREE RIDE when it comes to affording to pay for their own fuck up (child).

We're not disagreeing with you about it being directed at mexicans, because it aint fuckin asian, canadian, british, israeli, or any other fucking nationality that's the problem. It's the hispanics, plain and fucking simple.

You can skirt the system to get food stamps, fake SSN's, and all sorts of shit like that. Do you really think the system is foolproof?

Your logic is flawed - we all condone and would LOVE for them to come here... LEGALLY. That's the problem - come here legally, pay your taxes and be merry. That's what we want. Is there any possible way I can simplify that for you any more?

witness racism and ignorance at its best people.........

[big_tiger]

its unethical to turn away pregnant women, and if you say you have no problems doing that, that once again shows your ignorance....... i also like the fact how no one disagreed with me at the fact that you guys are pretty much directing your comments towards hispanics.... and you cannot file for welfare W/O registering through the govt. so once again your logic is flawed. Its a shame to know that you people dont approve of someone trying to put themselves and their families in a better situation, just like your ancestors did at one point in history.

These are the only points i am trying to make.

So lets turn a blind eye to one other thing that is turning America upside down. It is not my fault that they came over here illegally, and it isnt my fault they can't pay medical bills. Explain to me why I should help them? unethical??? The US being ethical is bleeding US dry. I already commented about the comments toward hispanics..

Illegal Immagrants can recieve welfare through there US born children. ;)

• Households headed by illegal aliens receive welfare, primarily Medicaid, on behalf of their U.S.-born children. In 2001, for example, the value of benefits and payments received by illegal alien households averaged over $1,000. This is considerably less than the $2,200 received by legal immigrant households on average, so one unintended consequence of legalizing illegal aliens would be a significant increase in welfare costs. (Table 1)

[mikeb]

its unethical to turn away pregnant women


I agree, and show me evidence where this has been occurring. However, many pregnant lllegals come here to have their "anchor baby" and to take advantage of a loophole in the law without bothering to follow the legal immigration process.


i also like the fact how no one disagreed with me at the fact that you guys are pretty much directing your comments towards hispanics


So you are annoyed that focus is occurring on a specific segment of illegals? Fact is, the US has illegal immigrants from many places. What is the difference between an illegal Hispanic person, and an illegal middle eastern immigrant? None? exactly....


.... and you cannot file for welfare W/O registering through the govt. so once again your logic is flawed. Its a shame to know that you people dont approve of someone trying to put themselves and their families in a better situation, just like your ancestors did at one point in history.


Welfare is a program for US citizens. No flawed logic here. Comparing immigration now and immigration 200 years ago is comparing apples to dirt clods. Now, there is a government in place with laws governing immigration. Follow the laws, become a US citizen.

[iluvmud]

finally people who can have a logical debate........ thank you guys

you have to see this from every side........ and i like the term anchor baby, sad thing is its true, you CANNOT try to say all the health care issues are from illegal immigrants alone, the only point i have been posting on here was for you guys to see that NO its not just illegal aliens who do this, its US citizens who do this intentionally, and no one will man up to that....... i get "go live south of the border" !?!?!? and this is from someone who apparently knows how to cheat the system..... classic. My point of view is this........ yes there are illegals here in the US, YES, theyre costing us lots of money in jobs and free CHILDCARE....... but in all honesty it might not make much of an impact due to the fact that US CITIZENS ARE THE MAIN CULPRITS IN MANIPULATING THE WELFARE AND FREE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sickens me to see someone in a Cadillac go to a fuckin store and pay with food stamps!!!!!!! illegals dont do that........ US citizens do.......

[lowthreeohz]

youre right Low, illegals are a problem lets send them all back

Amen!

so you can get your dish washing job back which you probably did a half ass job which is why you were replaced to begin with............

I's kolledge edjumacated and work fer one of them whatchacaller fortune 500 thingies... you fucking retard.


you posted hard proof that its unethical in the US to turn away pregnant women.... I posted proof that it's unethical? Please show me, and cite your references. http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

wow youre smart you so got me...... and no you dumbass i dont think that You had me until 'that'.

you posted about child birth which is about all you have to offer....... Fine, then read one of the 10 other points people are providing to you.

sad thing is its stupid people like you that give america a bad name, you want to personally attack someone you dont even know, I know they're illegal and they're milking the system I work hard to pay for. Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all.

so why dont you just have yourself another keystone light, and educate yourself before you criticize.

Sounds like a plan!




witness racism and ignorance at its best people.........

You're right. You've just shown everyone how retarded you really are.

[big_tiger]

finally people who can have a logical debate........ thank you guys

you have to see this from every side........ and i like the term anchor baby, sad thing is its true, you CANNOT try to say all the health care issues are from illegal immigrants alone, the only point i have been posting on here was for you guys to see that NO its not just illegal aliens who do this, its US citizens who do this intentionally, and no one will man up to that....... i get "go live south of the border" !?!?!? and this is from someone who apparently knows how to cheat the system..... classic. My point of view is this........ yes there are illegals here in the US, YES, theyre costing us lots of money in jobs and free CHILDCARE....... but in all honesty it might not make much of an impact due to the fact that US CITIZENS ARE THE MAIN CULPRITS IN MANIPULATING THE WELFARE AND FREE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sickens me to see someone in a Cadillac go to a fuckin store and pay with food stamps!!!!!!! illegals dont do that........ US citizens do.......

Logical debates stay on topic. ;) Many things in the US are flawed, we are just talking about the illegal immigrant flaws. I heard somewhere when people start to lose a conversation they back track, and speak about things that are not on topic. Is that true?

[lowthreeohz]

CANNOT try to say all the health care issues are from illegal immigrants alone, the only point i have been posting on here was for you guys to see that NO its not just illegal aliens who do this, its US citizens who do this intentionally, and no one will man up to that....... We well realize that US citizens are milking the system. Do you watch the news? MSNBC? Read the paper...anything??



i get "go live south of the border" !?!?!? Sure! Need a hand packing?


and this is from someone who apparently knows how to cheat the system..... classic. Remember when you told me to go get educated? LOL!


My point of view is this........ heh...

yes there are illegals here in the US, So they should go.

YES, theyre costing us lots of money in jobs and free CHILDCARE...... More reason they should go.

but in all honesty it might not make much of an impact due to the fact that US CITIZENS ARE THE MAIN CULPRITS IN MANIPULATING THE WELFARE AND FREE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it might not make an impact? it does.. we've shown you how. want some pictures? The reason they manipulate it more, is because they have access to it. Give the illegals the opportunity, and they'd suck it dry. Bet that.


It sickens me to see someone in a Cadillac go to a fuckin store and pay with food stamps!!!!!!! And?


illegals dont do that........ US citizens do.......

How do you know the status of their citizenship?

Dude you're a retard. Go bury your head in the sand some more, let the adults have a discussion.

[black01gt]

Point the finger at lawmakers and enforcers...big business, but you cant honestly fault someone for trying to make something better of themselves.
That's a good point. How bout this idea? Wetbacks go home and better themselves at Mexico's expense, and take an American politician with each one of them. Yeah...that should fix it.

[iluvmud]

Logical debates stay on topic. ;) Many things in the US are flawed, we are just talking about the illegal immigrant flaws. I heard somewhere when people start to lose a conversation they back track, and speak about things that are not on topic. Is that true?


rofl, not back tracking, trying to prove a point........ but it hasnt, and more than likely will never sink in..... no point in pursuing this any further.......... enjoy your rants :D

[lowthreeohz]

rofl, not back tracking, trying to prove a point........ but it hasnt, and more than likely will never sink in..... no point in pursuing this any further.......... enjoy your rants :D

it sure sounds like you just backed out.

[line-em-up]

finally people who can have a logical debate........ thank you guys

you have to see this from every side........ and i like the term anchor baby, sad thing is its true, you CANNOT try to say all the health care issues are from illegal immigrants alone, the only point i have been posting on here was for you guys to see that NO its not just illegal aliens who do this, its US citizens who do this intentionally, and no one will man up to that....... i get "go live south of the border" !?!?!? and this is from someone who apparently knows how to cheat the system..... classic. My point of view is this........ yes there are illegals here in the US, YES, theyre costing us lots of money in jobs and free CHILDCARE....... but in all honesty it might not make much of an impact due to the fact that US CITIZENS ARE THE MAIN CULPRITS IN MANIPULATING THE WELFARE AND FREE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sickens me to see someone in a Cadillac go to a fuckin store and pay with food stamps!!!!!!! illegals dont do that........ US citizens do.......

I agree with everything you just said except for the last sentence. I've seen non English speaking people pay for their groceries with a Lone Star card and then hop into their Escalade. I don't know if they were illegal or not, but I know that illegals can get welfare. Of course illegals aren't the only ones using the system, but they were the topic of this thread and they are creating a strain on our economy. Why not discuss them?

[big_tiger]

it sure sounds like you just backed out.

Thats what is sounds like to me.

[line-em-up]

it hasnt, and more than likely will never sink in..... no point in pursuing this any further.......... enjoy your rants :D

LOL, that sounds like something I said 2 hours ago and was accused of "averting the argument". It seems it does no good to try to convince someone to change their mind. However, it helps to discuss these things because it may make us see things from a different perspective.

[mikeb]

finally people who can have a logical debate........ thank you guys

you have to see this from every side........ and i like the term anchor baby, sad thing is its true, you CANNOT try to say all the health care issues are from illegal immigrants alone, the only point i have been posting on here was for you guys to see that NO its not just illegal aliens who do this, its US citizens who do this intentionally, and no one will man up to that....... i get "go live south of the border" !?!?!? and this is from someone who apparently knows how to cheat the system..... classic. My point of view is this........ yes there are illegals here in the US, YES, theyre costing us lots of money in jobs and free CHILDCARE....... but in all honesty it might not make much of an impact due to the fact that US CITIZENS ARE THE MAIN CULPRITS IN MANIPULATING THE WELFARE AND FREE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sickens me to see someone in a Cadillac go to a fuckin store and pay with food stamps!!!!!!! illegals dont do that........ US citizens do.......

The fact is that anyone taking advantage of the welfare systems of the US is wrong, whether they are citizens or not. I don't have statistics to argue with your assertion about US citizens abusing welfare (do you?). My understanding is that many US citizens abusing the system have been rooted out by new benefit limits and by new eligibility requirements that have been enacted into law.

IMO it is very likely that illegals will take advantage of available social services because they simply do not have the credentials to operate in the US - no SSN, no driver's license, no health insurance, etc - they eventually become a burden to society (someone has to pay) because they chose not to follow the law. This is becoming an epidemic because of the conditions back home, and in mexico's case blatant support by the Mexican government to export as many people as possible across the US border to ease the burden on the Mexican government at the US government's expense.

You only have to look to Europe to see the effects of unfettered immigration - france, spain, the netherlands, etc. The immigrants there are beginning to control many aspects of the government in those countries, simply by their population numbers. Do you really want that to happen to the US? It is already happening in california with some of the laws they have passed there. You want your taxes to go to causes they support, that might not be your own? Think, man.

[mustangguy289]

I hope other states catch on.

[black01gt]

I hope other states catch on.
Hoping ain't working dude. It's time to make states catch on or find new and improved government representation. Like leaders that are capable of letting common sense prevail.

[egnorant]

Damn people, what did Mexicans ever do to you?

There's so much blind racism in here you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. To wish harm and exile against your fellow man in the name of blind social and political stigmas driven by stereotypes and the typical american sentiment is downright selfish and rude. What happened to love, brotherhood, and fellowship? Mexicans are just like anybody else, they're just form another part of the world. Racism will not get you anywhere, expecially if you think of them as pests and as something that has to be controlled. This will never solve problems. Mexicans bring along with them a vast, deeply rooted, rich culture of arts, music, dance, entertainment and most importantly food. Without the mexican people and their influence on society, this country would not be the same. And who are you guys to say that we would be better off with out them? Come on, take a look at the situation from a different perspective, their's. On a macro scale, they're not doing much harm, they just aim at making a nice life for themselves--just like everyone else. What drives you people to have such deep-seated hate for these people? What is the cause for so much blind ethnocentricism?

My "Pest Control" post is not racial.
It addresses the problem as it currently exists.
The changes I would personally push involve government policies and business rules much more than the people themselves.
Everyone wants to scream racism when the rant is economic.
I follow the rules and pay my dues and expect to be mistreated by my government
and their assosiated cronies (Insurance, Banks and big business) and I see another group getting free passes.
I don't care if they are Mexican, Norwegian, Mud men or bald, gay, liberal democrat, redneck Kia drivers!!!!
I want them mistreated as badly as me or I want a free pass also!
Or even better....meet somewhere in the middle.

But currently...I paid to be at this party, I'll bitch if I want to.
That person did not pay so they need to get the F*** OUT or pay!

Bruce

[ScottJ]

I hate people that suck time, money, and resouces out the pockets of those willing to play by the rules.

[01WhiteCobra]

finally people who can have a logical debate........ thank you guys

you have to see this from every side........ and i like the term anchor baby, sad thing is its true, you CANNOT try to say all the health care issues are from illegal immigrants alone, the only point i have been posting on here was for you guys to see that NO its not just illegal aliens who do this, its US citizens who do this intentionally, and no one will man up to that....... i get "go live south of the border" !?!?!? and this is from someone who apparently knows how to cheat the system..... classic. My point of view is this........ yes there are illegals here in the US, YES, theyre costing us lots of money in jobs and free CHILDCARE....... but in all honesty it might not make much of an impact due to the fact that US CITIZENS ARE THE MAIN CULPRITS IN MANIPULATING THE WELFARE AND FREE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sickens me to see someone in a Cadillac go to a fuckin store and pay with food stamps!!!!!!! illegals dont do that........ US citizens do.......


But you aren't logically debating. So what if illegals aren't the only cause of welfare bullshit or uninsured bullshit or crime bullshit? Does that make them immune to it? No. They are part of the problem and they shouldn't be here in the first place.

You are arguing like I did when I was 6. "But, mom, Mark did it too." Of course, the statement was usually followed by "If Mark jumped off a cliff would you?"

- In LA alone, 95 percent of the outstanding warrants for murder target illegal aliens.

- The majority of illegal aliens are uninsured. Go to the emergency room at Baylor Garland and see how many of the uninsured illegal aliens use the emergency room as their primary care physician. When they don't pay... guess who does?

- Ever wonder what the correlation between the recent spat of weird ass diseases in the country and illegal immigrants? Drug-resistant TB... Hepatitis A... organ attacking parasites...

- Education alone is hillarious. What the fuck is all this ESL bullshit? People have been immigrating to this country for hundreds of years and just recently we have to hold English as a second language classes?

I will agree that this economy is better with illegal immigrants... in moderation. Once you hit a certain number of illegals the tide turns and becomes a drain on the economy. If we aren't there yet we'll be there in the very near future.

But... does the government really want to get rid of illegal aliens? I say no. They drop money into Social Security and the majority won't be around to collect the benefits. SS is in total bankruptcy and the illegal aliens help keep funding it until the ultimate death of SS.

You cannot tell me the SS administration cannot detect fake/misused SS numbers.

The SS A has a fund called the "earnings suspense fund". This is money received that they cannot tie to a tax payer. 189 BILLION in the 90s was accounted for in this fund and in the 2000s, so far, over 50 BILLION EACH YEAR, is dropped into this fund.

The government knows, with great accuracy, who these illegals are and who employs them. They'd rather collect tax. That is the reason why the illegal debate is a moot. The federal government, regardless of the rhetoric, wants the tax.

[line-em-up]

But you aren't logically debating. So what if illegals aren't the only cause of welfare bullshit or uninsured bullshit or crime bullshit? Does that make them immune to it? No. They are part of the problem and they shouldn't be here in the first place.

You are arguing like I did when I was 6. "But, mom, Mark did it too." Of course, the statement was usually followed by "If Mark jumped off a cliff would you?"

- In LA alone, 95 percent of the outstanding warrants for murder target illegal aliens.

- The majority of illegal aliens are uninsured. Go to the emergency room at Baylor Garland and see how many of the uninsured illegal aliens use the emergency room as their primary care physician. When they don't pay... guess who does?

- Ever wonder what the correlation between the recent spat of weird ass diseases in the country and illegal immigrants? Drug-resistant TB... Hepatitis A... organ attacking parasites...

- Education alone is hillarious. What the fuck is all this ESL bullshit? People have been immigrating to this country for hundreds of years and just recently we have to hold English as a second language classes?

I will agree that this economy is better with illegal immigrants... in moderation. Once you hit a certain number of illegals the tide turns and becomes a drain on the economy. If we aren't there yet we'll be there in the very near future.

But... does the government really want to get rid of illegal aliens? I say no. They drop money into Social Security and the majority won't be around to collect the benefits. SS is in total bankruptcy and the illegal aliens help keep funding it until the ultimate death of SS.

You cannot tell me the SS administration cannot detect fake/misused SS numbers.

The SS A has a fund called the "earnings suspense fund". This is money received that they cannot tie to a tax payer. 189 BILLION in the 90s was accounted for in this fund and in the 2000s, so far, over 50 BILLION EACH YEAR, is dropped into this fund.

The government knows, with great accuracy, who these illegals are and who employs them. They'd rather collect tax. That is the reason why the illegal debate is a moot. The federal government, regardless of the rhetoric, wants the tax.

Man, you are good at expressing words. :)

[lowthreeohz]

iluvmud has successfully only replied to one of my posts. what a retard.

[Geor!]

But you aren't logically debating. So what if illegals aren't the only cause of welfare bullshit or uninsured bullshit or crime bullshit? Does that make them immune to it? No. They are part of the problem and they shouldn't be here in the first place.

You are arguing like I did when I was 6. "But, mom, Mark did it too." Of course, the statement was usually followed by "If Mark jumped off a cliff would you?"

- In LA alone, 95 percent of the outstanding warrants for murder target illegal aliens.

- The majority of illegal aliens are uninsured. Go to the emergency room at Baylor Garland and see how many of the uninsured illegal aliens use the emergency room as their primary care physician. When they don't pay... guess who does?

- Ever wonder what the correlation between the recent spat of weird ass diseases in the country and illegal immigrants? Drug-resistant TB... Hepatitis A... organ attacking parasites...

- Education alone is hillarious. What the fuck is all this ESL bullshit? People have been immigrating to this country for hundreds of years and just recently we have to hold English as a second language classes?

I will agree that this economy is better with illegal immigrants... in moderation. Once you hit a certain number of illegals the tide turns and becomes a drain on the economy. If we aren't there yet we'll be there in the very near future.

But... does the government really want to get rid of illegal aliens? I say no. They drop money into Social Security and the majority won't be around to collect the benefits. SS is in total bankruptcy and the illegal aliens help keep funding it until the ultimate death of SS.

You cannot tell me the SS administration cannot detect fake/misused SS numbers.

The SS A has a fund called the "earnings suspense fund". This is money received that they cannot tie to a tax payer. 189 BILLION in the 90s was accounted for in this fund and in the 2000s, so far, over 50 BILLION EACH YEAR, is dropped into this fund.

The government knows, with great accuracy, who these illegals are and who employs them. They'd rather collect tax. That is the reason why the illegal debate is a moot. The federal government, regardless of the rhetoric, wants the tax.
I think your point about the correlation of diseases and the immigration problem is a bit absurd. Viruses mutate; science has proven that. Trying to pin that on one group of people, illegal immigrants, is pretty ignorant of you if you ask me. Do you have facts to back that argument up?

[black01gt]

I think your point about the correlation of diseases and the immigration problem is a bit absurd. Viruses mutate; science has proven that. Trying to pin that on one group of people, illegal immigrants, is pretty ignorant of you if you ask me. Do you have facts to back that argument up?
Then go down to Mexico and draw you a big ole glass of water. Drink away. :D As relief from that "revenge", go to a Mexican bar and get coughed on a lot. The beans and tequila should be safe tho.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Solution.
Make tougher laws on driver responsibility, liability for accidents. This would undoubtedly deter some if not most of the people who drive without financial responsibility to take the necessary steps toward acquiring insurance. This problem lies with the department of transportation, as the uninsured driver who hit your sister could have been of any nationality. Only the fact that it was an uninsured mexican that hit her makes it an immigration issue, that is where racism comes in to rear its ugly head...

If they refuse to follow the laws to get into this country, what makes you think that they will follow the laws while in the country?

If they can't get here legally, fuck them. Send 'em home to make something out of Mexico.

[01WhiteCobra]

I think your point about the correlation of diseases and the immigration problem is a bit absurd. Viruses mutate; science has proven that. Trying to pin that on one group of people, illegal immigrants, is pretty ignorant of you if you ask me. Do you have facts to back that argument up?

Not ignorant at all Geof. If anything, its ignorant to think it isn't happening.

Look up Chagas disease. Look up the resurgence of tuberculosis in the border areas of this country and other migrant worker havens such as Prince William County. Hell, the Department of Health in Virginia blamed the rise of TB on illegal immigrants.

The medical systems of this developing countries isn't anywhere near what the American system is. These illegals don't go through the same process as legal immigrants which include health checks.

TB was all but non-existent in the US five years ago. In the past 4 years, 16,000 cases of multi-drug resistant TB crossed over the border. This strain of TB is ONLY found in Mexico.

The four illegal immigrant states in the United States have over half of the TB cases. Just a coincendence?

TB in El Paso County is twice that of the US rate.... along with leprosy (which is considered a third world disease) as well as dysentry which is several times the US rate. Also, Pork tapeworm, which was non-existent in the United States is starting to show up at border towns.

Legal immigrants are screened for these nasty ass diseases. Its ignorant to think it isn't a problem for those that do not receive the proper screenings when they illegally immigrate to the US.

[Geor!]

How about a foreign traveller from Germany who doesn't know they are infected with anything? I'm not an illegal supporter by any means, but it just seems a bit crass to blame one group of people for a worldwide problem. I see where you're coming from, I do. I just don't see it how it was stated/I interpreted it.

[01WhiteCobra]

How about a foreign traveller from Germany who doesn't know they are infected with anything? I'm not an illegal supporter by any means, but it just seems a bit crass to blame one group of people for a worldwide problem. I see where you're coming from, I do. I just don't see it how it was stated/I interpreted it.

Geof, your arugment is looking like the other poster that started up. Oh yea, well what about this group of people too. We're talking about illegals here.

Illegal immigrants are not screened for infectious disease. Just because they aren't the only ones doesn't take away from the fact illegals do not go through the same health screenings as others.

Worldwide problem? I thought we were talking about the United States with one of the most sophisticated, if not the most sophisticated, health systems in the world. In California their TB control systems are getting overwhelmed because of the number of illegal aliens carrying TB that aren't properly screened.

We all but eradicated TB within the borders but all of a sudden there is a marked increase in the number of cases. These illegals don't only cut grass. They make your food in restaurants.

While I don't have the article online, the WSJ did an article about an illegal up in CT that worked in a restaurant. There was an outbreak of TB in the town. They traced it back to this worker who also had 4 others living in his home. All 5 had TB. All 5 worked in restaurants.

[01WhiteCobra]

Also Geof, I'm not just talking about Mexican Nationals here. Although 26% of the TB cases in 2005 where Mexican Nationals (legally here and illegally here). 53% of those cases where "foreign born" people as the CDC likes to term their illegals.

I'm also talking about illegals from China, India, Phillipines, Chile, Brazil, and all the other places they come from.

[Geor!]

Also Geof, I'm not just talking about Mexican Nationals here. Although 26% of the TB cases in 2005 where Mexican Nationals (legally here and illegally here). 53% of those cases where "foreign born" people as the CDC likes to term their illegals.

I'm also talking about illegals from China, India, Phillipines, Chile, Brazil, and all the other places they come from.
I concede.

[tazz007]

Lets shed some light on the raciest thing.

1. People are up in arms about the influx of ILLEGAL immigrants. The key word here is Illegal. These people I would say are not raciest people, but good Americans standing up and supporting the laws of our land.

2. The true racists are the people that are the people standing up and protesting the laws of our land. They want to protect there own people, no matter who gets hurt, or what hospital gets shut down, or how many tax dollars get spent on schools getting built that are dedicated to Spanish speaking people. These people are the true racists! They protect there own, and to hell with every one else.

As for me. I agree with the immigration laws. No country can withstand a huge influx of people with out economically affecting the area. So what? What is done is done. Now the right thing needs to be done. Get the Illegals out period! it's the right thing to do for Americans, all Americans, black, white, brown, and yellow Americans.

Charlie

[TexasStreetCars.com]

Due to the facts presented by line em up, you pro-illegal alien guys got

E-I-E-I-Owned.

and as tazz007 stated: they are il-fucking-legal. That should be the end of the debate. They don't let illegal immigrants from America come down and take advantage of their taxes and healthcare systems, why the fuck should we?

[black01gt]

They don't let illegal immigrants from America come down and take advantage of their taxes and healthcare systems, why the fuck should we?
They've got common sense... and enforced laws!

Mixican Immigration Policy:
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be
conducted
in our language.

4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.

5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.

[mikeb]

They've got common sense... and enforced laws!

Mixican Immigration Policy:
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be
conducted
in our language.

4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.

5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.

Why they hell don't we just mirror their policy? That would be fair, right?

[black01gt]

Why they hell don't we just mirror their policy? That would be fair, right?
You'll probably need to ask the corporate elite that question. I wouldn't count on an honest answer.

It would sound something like:
"Well we feel that everyone deserves the chance to better themselves, and you don't want the jobs anyway."

Translation:
"We need a cheap fuckin labor source that doesn't want benifits and won't call in sick. Cheap Cheap Cheap equals huge profits and gigantic CEO salaries goddamit! What else matters? And oh yeah...God Bless America! ;) "

[OrangeCrush]

Haters? Because you're stealing money that I worked hard for? Fuck you, leach.



Good fucking riddance. Now you can go steal each other's shit back in the motherland.bitch stop hating hoe and build a mustang ...dont hate cuz I build a car every six months cuz I got it like that bitch
....

[black01gt]

bitch stop hating hoe and build a mustang ...dont hate cuz I build a car every six months cuz I got it like that bitch
....
What a fine spokesman you are for your cause.

I wonder what has more horsepower. Yo car or yo kickerbox...yo yo...ho bitch. :o

[TrueBlueGT]

Lol wow, first of all you just pointed to a keyword search "illegal immigration facts" and checked out the first 2 sites. lol is this where you get your information? Please tell me you have better sources like a .gov or something? Have you even been to any of the sites you linked? Lets make this easy, how are you personally affected by illegal immigrants? Oh yeah and ive been a member since April.
you want some facts. Here you go.

a close friend of mine was audited by the IRS. The reason he was audited was that there was 75K in income that he did not claim according to employers SS records. See all those "fake" SSNs you are referring to belong to someone. He had to prove that he was not working 5 full time jobs in 3 different states. There were 4 different illegals that were using his SSN 2 in Texas, 1 in Oklahoma and 1 in California. Now during the fighting, they were garnishing his wages to pay these taxes. In the end he did get that money back. Now before you say no damages were done, lets talk about what happened during the 2 years of legal battles and 2 years of wage garnishments. First thing happened was loss of income due to time taken off of work to go to talk with lawyers/go to court/etc... 2nd was loss of income due to wage garnishments. These 2 loss of income left him in a situation where he could not pay all his bills. His truck was repossessed screwing up his credit even worse than it already was due to the IRS crap. He hit a point where he could not pay his child support (had not missed 1 single payment in 4 years). His ex wife made a point to go to court to ensure his visitation rights were suspended. She also filed a motion to try to completely terminate all his parental rights. To stop that he caught up on payments by not paying his rent. He got evicted, and had to move in with friends. He also had to wait until the end of the next tax season to get all that money back that they took.

So now his credit is still screwed up, he has the reposession, eviction, and late child support payments to deal with on there. He almost lost all rights to see his kids. What happened to the illegals? I have no idea, they were not deported over this. I am sure they started using someone else's SSN #.

There is your real and personal damages. No racism involved. I don't care why you want to come here, come here legally and follow the laws. If you can't do that get the hell out. You are not welcome. I don't care what country you are from.

[black01gt]

Scary shit right there. Want to find some terrorist that want to harm the USA? Check in Washington DC. They'll be wearing suits and looking very important.

I got a call 4 years ago from an arab fellow that owned 12 Chevron stations. He wanted to lease some equipment. I sent him to a dealer (customer) of mine. He ran a credit check on his SS number and it came back perfect. He had his office run a "backdoor check" (?) on him. The guy has 3 bankrupts, 5 judgements against him and otherwise terrible credit. Turns out there is a whole group of arab businessmen that share the same SS number. He called Homeland Security and to this day nothing has been done about it. They told my customer that it was up to him to protect his business and he had done the right thing by refusing to do biz with the guy. True story.