View Full Version : English Archbishop denounces biblical nativity as "legend"
White trash wagon
12-20-2007, 07:29 AM
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, dismissed the Christmas story of the Three Wise Men yesterday as nothing but "legend."
There was scant evidence for the Magi, and none at all that there were three of them, or that they were kings, he said. All the evidence that existed was in Matthew’s Gospel. The Archbishop said: "Matthew’s Gospel doesn’t tell us there were three of them, doesn’t tell us they were kings, doesn’t tell us where they came from. It says they are astrologers, wise men, priests from somewhere outside the Roman Empire, that’s all we’re really told." Anything else was legend. "It works quite well as legend," the Archbishop said.
Further, there was no evidence that there were any oxen or asses in the stable. The chances of any snow falling around the stable in Bethlehem were "very unlikely." And as for the star rising and then standing still: the Archbishop pointed out that stars just don’t behave like that.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317550,00.html
Denny
12-20-2007, 08:04 AM
Catholics... gotta love 'em :rolleyes:
Seriously, you either believe every word of the Bible or none of it.
flashstang04
12-20-2007, 09:28 AM
Well, he is right about one thing... there wasn't any snow around. Other than that, I think he should be excommunicated.
Seriously, you either believe every word of the Bible or none of it.
Says you.
Denny
12-20-2007, 10:27 AM
Says you.
So you think one can just pick and choose what is truth and what isn't out of the Bible?
So you think one can just pick and choose what is truth and what isn't out of the Bible?
One can certainly pick what they chose to believe (or not) out of the Bible.
Denny
12-20-2007, 10:36 AM
One can certainly pick what they chose to believe (or not) out of the Bible.
I guess so... hell, there are some people that believe that there is no God, so I guess anything is possible. It's whatever.
...I guess anything is possible. It's whatever.
Interestingly enough, those words pretty much sum up my view of God, Jesus, the Bible, and religion.
Denny
12-20-2007, 10:43 AM
Interestingly enough, those words pretty much sum up my view of God, Jesus, the Bible, and religion.
Ya... I figured as much.
flashstang04
12-20-2007, 11:36 AM
Unfortunately for you, that position is the same as knowing for sure that there is a God and consciously rejecting Him.
White trash wagon
12-20-2007, 12:20 PM
Catholics... gotta love 'em :rolleyes:
Incorrect, the Archbishop is part of the Church of England, or Anglican church. When Henry VIII broke with the Catholic Church in 1534, the Anglican church became England's official religion. Anglicans are Protestant Reformers.
Scott
Denny
12-20-2007, 12:33 PM
Incorrect, the Archbishop is part of the Church of England, or Anglican church. When Henry VIII broke with the Catholic Church in 1534, the Anglican church became England's official religion. Anglicans are Protestant Reformers.
Scott
Catholic Light
White trash wagon
12-20-2007, 12:43 PM
Catholic Light
Does that mean Baptists are Catholic Extra Light?
Unfortunately for you, that position is the same as knowing for sure that there is a God and consciously rejecting Him.
Says you. Fortunately for me, I don't buy into that bs.
Brain_Mach1
12-20-2007, 02:00 PM
Catholics... gotta love 'em :rolleyes:
Seriously, you either believe every word of the Bible or none of it.
Is your comment bigotry or ignorance. The Archbishop of Canterbury is ANGLICAN! This has been the case since King Henry VIII.
Denny
12-20-2007, 02:16 PM
Is your comment bigotry or ignorance. The Archbishop of Canterbury is ANGLICAN! This has been the case since King Henry VIII.
More of sarcasm, but since it got your panties in a wad as well... we'll leave it as bigotry! :cool:
Brain_Mach1
12-20-2007, 02:25 PM
I hate to say it but the nativity seen as we view it is not recorded in the Bible but is mostly a creation of Francis of Assisi and other Catholics.
The Archbishop is correct about the Maji and other details. The Bible says 3 gifts not 3 Maji, it does not says there were oxen or snow present, etc. Some of this is Catholic imagery and other is just artistic interpretation.
Brain_Mach1
12-20-2007, 02:29 PM
Interestingly enough, those words pretty much sum up my view of God, Jesus, the Bible, and religion.
Something to think about is that the Pauline letters were written not for a large publication but to individual communities with instructions for them to be distributed.
If the communities existed before the letters, that means:
1. God/Jesus (Jesus is God)
2. religion
3. the Bible
I hate to say it but the nativity seen as we view it is not recorded in the Bible but is mostly a creation of Francis of Assisi and other Catholics.
I always knew that dude was Assisi.
Something to think about is that the Pauline letters were written not for a large publication but to individual communities with instructions for them to be distributed.
If the communities existed before the letters, that means:
1. God/Jesus (Jesus is God)
2. religion
3. the Bible
Well, if corn on the cob was blue instead of yellow, that means:
1. walrus
2. yesterday
3. fumigate
(Jesus is God)
Serious question for you though... If the Bible says that Jesus is the son of God, and that he went up and sat on his hand, how could they be the same entity?
Mr Majestyk
12-20-2007, 02:53 PM
Jesus is God in human form, i.e. a form recognizable by all mankind.
flashstang04
12-20-2007, 03:21 PM
Well, we know there were at least 2 Wise Men, because the term "men" is used. .. That and the fact that there WERE sheep close by....are certain.
Jesus is God in human form, i.e. a form recognizable by all mankind.
That's not what they taught us in the Methodist church. But it doesn't matter all that much, since I doubt any religion has it all figured out.
Brain_Mach1
12-20-2007, 05:07 PM
Well, if corn on the cob was blue instead of yellow, that means:
1. walrus
2. yesterday
3. fumigate
I missed your reasoning. Can you explain please? I have some red corn and blue corn from a rescent festival and I can't follow your logic.
Brain_Mach1
12-20-2007, 06:05 PM
Serious question for you though... If the Bible says that Jesus is the son of God, and that he went up and sat on his hand, how could they be the same entity?
That is a fair question. Jesus also held bread in his hand and said, “This is my Body…” Jesus can be in more than one place at once.
These are mysteries we cannot fully understand.
The Lateran Council IV specifies: We firmly believe and confess without reservation that there is only one true God, eternal infinite (immensus) and unchangeable, incomprehensible, almighty and ineffable, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; three persons indeed, but one essence, substance or nature entirely simple.
Essence, substance and nature are terms of Philosophy. We cannot understand why everything is, but Jesus and the Holy Spirit have revealed some aspects of God to us.
If I knew how He could be more than one place at once, I would do it myself.
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