Explain this one, Atheists

[BrianC]

I'm working with a person who has multiple personality disorder one day. She has 109 personalities. Some of her alters (alternate personalities) are Satanists (who do not like me, a Christian), because she was raised in a family of Satanists.

So, one night I go to bed, and my wife is sitting there with the light on in the bedroom (very out of character for her). I laid down and went to sleep. Just as I drifted off to sleep, I heard this little girl's voice chanting in a satanic language (which I've never heard before) and my entire body starts to shake. My wife sees me shaking and grabs me to wake me up. As I wake up, my legs and arms raise up off the bed and I come out of it.

My wife said, "I knew something was going to happen. That's why I left the light on." I asked how she knew something was going to happen. She said earlier that night when she came into the bedroom, she saw a demon sitting in the corner of the room. Not sure if she prayed for God to remove the demon or what, but she wanted to keep the light on afterwords. That's when she tells me for the first time that she can see demons (but only when necessary, as if God turns it on and off when needed).

Apparently, ever since she was possessed by a demon for three days when she was 5, she's been able to see demons. For instance, she said one time she walked into a Charismatic church and saw demons everywhere. I have another friend with the same ability and similar story.

The day after I was spiritually attacked, I go back to the multiple and revealed nothing except that I was attacked spiritually. I asked who did it. They said that a 9 year old child alter had cast the spell on me. I didn't tell them it was a little girl's voice I heard. They (the other alters) just knew who cast the spell and that it was a little girl alter, which confirmed that this was not something I just imagined.

Anyone care to explain that one away?

[SVT93Style]

Is this a joke?

[BrianC]

Is this a joke?

No, I'm dead serious. This happened a few months ago exactly as I described it. Why would you think it's a joke?

[Fox466]

The explanation is that you're nuts. That's OK though because we're all off a little bit in some form or fashion...

[BrianC]

The explanation is that you're nuts. That's OK though because we're all off a little bit in some form or fashion...

So, I suppose the multiple who's alter cast a spell on me is nuts also? And my wife is also nuts? It's not just me...

[SVT93Style]

What denomination are you?

[BrianC]

What denomination are you?

No denomination. Just Christian. And no denomination is responsible for my beliefs, either. I study for myself.

I learned a lot about spiritual warfare this year and working with multiples.

I will say, though, when I was 19, there was a girl who was anorexic and it was demon possession or oppression. Not sure which. She blamed herself for her boyfriend's death (but she had nothing to do with it). So, over two years, she drank, smoked, did drugs and became anorexic (all self-destructive behaviors). Basically, she hated herself and didn't realize it, and was abusing herself as a result.

Right before this, I had learned the very basics of casting out a demon. I knew immediately that this girl was possessed or oppressed. I'd known her a couple of years before this and she looked up to me like a big brother.

Anyway, so, I tell her she needs to have this demon cast out and she should pray for God to cast it out of her. She's pretty sure I'm correct, but doesn't know what to do.

So, I email her late at night before I got to bed, and she's already asleep (note the order of events). She wakes up the next morning and says she feels completely different, as if she's gained weight overnight (in the morning is when you weigh the least, actually), and she has no desire to drink, smoke or do drugs. She weighs herself and she's gained 3 pounds. She checks her e-mail and sees what I told her I was going to do the night before all this happened.

I told her I would go to bed and command out this demon in Jesus' name before I went to bed (now, what's weird, is usually, demons must hear you...but I guess God carried my voice to them, because you are commanding them...not sure). Anyway, before, she weighed 87 pounds and was 5'7" tall. In two weeks, she gained 40 pounds and stayed at 127 pounds continuously, without changing any eating habits. Not even sure if it's humanly possible to gain 40 pounds in two weeks, but she did.

Her parents contacted me 6 months later and thanked me for giving them their girl back, and I said, "Jesus did that, not me." They said she did a complete 180...no addictions anymore, no anorexia, and she found a Christian boyfriend she now went to church with and she was in college now, doing really well.

How do you explain things like that? It cannot be the placebo effect, because she didn't know I had cast that demon out when she first noticed the differences she felt upon waking that morning. She was in despair the night before.

Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition. The Bible says fear is a demon. So, this one girl I know of had this demon of fear and she had athsma and couldn't even take deep breaths. Didn't know what it was like, actually. One day, she renounces that demon and casts it out. Immediately she took in a huge deep breath of air and never again had athsma or an athsma attack.

[poopnut2]

What's a Satanic language? I thought latin was used both by good and evil? I think that you're going to lose credibility with the other christians on here with this post.

[flashstang04]

There are demonic languages, just as there are angelic or holy ones. What he is saying is not un-biblical at all. In fact Jesus Himself said, "and greater things than these shall you do"

[poopnut2]

There are demonic languages, just as there are angelic or holy ones. What he is saying is not un-biblical at all. In fact Jesus Himself said, "and greater things than these shall you do"

How can he tell the difference? I'm sorry, but when I hear crazies speak in tongues, it sounds pretty evil to me. La ma sha blah blah blah lakka lakka shamala.

[BrianC]

How can he tell the difference? I'm sorry, but when I hear crazies speak in tongues, it sounds pretty evil to me. La ma sha blah blah blah lakka lakka shamala.

I have heard people speak in tongues before. This was very different than tongues. In fact, sometimes people will have spirits that are speaking something other than tongues, and the people don't realize it. I think a lot of penticostal churches unknowingly have people speaking in this fake tongues. You can test evil spirits according to 1 John 4:1-3 (must use the KJV translation for the only accurate translation on this verse...won't explain why). I've used it many times and it works everytime. It basically says that a demon cannot say, "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." So, you test the spirits by commanding them to say that. If they say it, they're not a demon. If they can't say it, you know they're a demon. Pretty simple.

Most Christians never get into the spiritual warfare side of things. So I wouldn't expect them to have experience with this or really understand it. But I wouldn't lose credibility with them. Many Christians have heard or seen the effects of demons or demon possession. It's nothing new. It's just that most haven't experienced it first hand or dealt with it directly.

[BrianC]

How can he tell the difference? I'm sorry, but when I hear crazies speak in tongues, it sounds pretty evil to me. La ma sha blah blah blah lakka lakka shamala.

Look up Satanism online and dark tongues or satanic tongues, etc. You'll find it I'm sure. I haven't tried to look it up, but I'm sure you can find it out there. Again, it's nothing new... been around for like 6,000 years now. lol

[poopnut2]

Look up Satanism online and dark tongues or satanic tongues, etc. You'll find it I'm sure. I haven't tried to look it up, but I'm sure you can find it out there. Again, it's nothing new... been around for like 6,000 years now. lolYou can find anything on the internet.

[BrianC]

You can find anything on the internet.
Yeah, but you can find a lot of crap on the internet too.

I'm certain my friend with multiple personality disorder who grew up in an entire family of Satanists knows what she's talking about when she speaks of the Satanic tongue.

Oh, I almost forgot. Heck, you can go look up the Satanic Bible and find the Satanic tongue spoken of in there. That'd be the best way to find it.

[Zarathustra]

wow.

[FSON]

To play the devils' advocate, how does the presence of some others force on another person give proof of a god?

[BrianC]

To play the devils' advocate, how does the presence of some others force on another person give proof of a god?

Don't think the presence of others was the point. I think it was that some people had information which they could not have known unless there were a spiritual world at play. Does that make sense?

For instance, I didn't know a little satanic girl alter was casting a spell on me, yet I heard a little girl's voice casting the spell. I was not aware of this Satanic tongue at the time, yet when I heard it, I immediately knew it was Satanic. I began to shake uncontrollably with no prompting from anyone and I have never read or seen anything about this type of spiritual attack before. I found out later that a little girl alter had cast this spell on me, but did not tell the multiple that I'd heard a little girl's voice. My wife, with no knowledge of anything like this going on, saw a demon and knew something was going to happen, but had no idea what it was.

You have three people here that all have information by supernatural means with they could not have gotten otherwise. And all of their stories confirm it.

This doesn't give proof of a god. It gives proof of a supernatural spiritual world at play behind the scenes. You've seen movies about alternate dimensions? Well, heaven (or the spiritual world and all that its comprised of) is that alternate dimension.

For instance, multiples have lots of different personalities. These personalities live in a world in which they can see each other and they all look different. The world looks like our world, but with no buildings or industrialization. Just maybe a house they've build, mountains, forests, oceans, lakes, ponds, valleys, etc. They all see the same things in this world: angels, demons, Jesus and false Jesuses, and the water of life. They all see these things, yet some of them have never heard of Jesus, angels or demons before.

The book "The Shining Man with Hurt Hands" by Ellis H. Skolfield shows actual chat logs with multiples that are unaltered that show exactly what they see inside without prompting from anyone. And the last half of the book is about a Japanese lady who has never heard of Jesus or angels or demons before. She's a Buddhist. Yet, with no prompting whatsoever, she has seen demons inside before meeting the author online for therapy, and while in therapy, Jesus Himself comes in and deals with some of her alters (alternate personalities, which are just like separate people in this inside world). With no knowledge of what the water of life does (the Bible doesn't tell), this woman sees it kill demons and purge evil from her alters.

This woman sees angels, and with no prompting or foreknowledge, says that they have either two, four or six wings. The Bible only talks about one angel having six wings called a Saraphim. Some angels in the Bible are talked about, but their number of wings is not mentioned. EVERY multiple I've done therapy with has said that they see the exact same types of angels, whether they know what an angel is or not. They say that the smaller ones have two wings. The very large ones have four wings and swords that are on fire, and the shortest/smallest of the bunch have six wings. So those are messenger, warrior and healing angels, in that order. And all of these multiples say they see them. If they don't know what these things are, they call angels "shining ones," demons "dark ones," and Jesus, "The shining man with hurt hands."

Now, if you take into consideration that ALL multiples, regardless of what knowledge they have or don't have of Jesus, angels and demons, see these things without prompting on their inside world, it proves that all multiples are in the same place: the spiritual world. They don't see other multiples there, except in VERY RARE occasion. I have many chat logs to prove that everything in The Shining Man is accurate, and many multiple friends who can attest to it as well.

Yes, there is a spiritual world. Read that book if you want proof for yourself, and afterwords, you're welcome to ask me for some chat logs to back-up what the book says. I've taken it much further than the author of the book and done things he didn't even realize you could do. Very cool stuff. This is going to sound like an arrogant statement, but it's not meant that way. I know more about multiplicity and understand it far better than 99.999999% of therapists in the world. The medical community will attest to that one, because they say it is the least understood of any condition. And yet, I get results and I can have a multiple fully integrated and normal in a matter of months or just a few years. The medical community gives multiples anywhere from 5-15 years life expectancy from the day they start therapy. This is because most multiples see that the therapist doesn't know what they're doing and can't help them, so they end up killing themselves instead due to lack of hope. Pretty messed up.

My point is to prove the existence of a spiritual world. At that point, you must start contemplating a god of some sort...

[DarkWolf]

What's a Satanic language? I thought latin was used both by good and evil? I think that you're going to lose credibility with the other christians on here with this post.

I think aramaic would be more accurate, but the gist is the same :)

I don't think it's going to be just christians he loses any credibility with...

I'm working with a person who has multiple personality disorder one day. She has 109 personalities.

Surely she has a well documented psychiatric history, what with so many personalities. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case reaching even half that number.

And yet, oddly, I can't seem to pull up any information on this anomaly.

What's her name? I'm curious to learn more about her. Obviously looking up actual documented cases isn't getting anywhere (because there are no documented cases of anyone with 109 personalities. Past, or present.), so to find out more I'll need her name.

[BrianC]

I think aramaic would be more accurate, but the gist is the same :)

I don't think it's going to be just christians he loses any credibility with...



Surely she has a well documented psychiatric history, what with so many personalities. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case reaching even half that number.

And yet, oddly, I can't seem to pull up any information on this anomaly.

What's her name? I'm curious to learn more about her. Obviously looking up actual documented cases isn't getting anywhere (because there are no documented cases of anyone with 109 personalities. Past, or present.), so to find out more I'll need her name.

You obviously haven't a clue how the psychiatric field world and how multiples work either.

There are documented cases of people with over 2,000 different personalities. You're just inept at using the internet if you can't find documentation on this.

And as for your knowledge of the psychiatric field, patient files are locked away so that no one can read them. There's a big process that must be gone through to get permission to reveal patient history in documented cases. Therapists don't just go around airing everyone's dirty laundry for the world to see. Nice job showing your complete ignorance about MPD and the psychiatric field. Your opinion and knowledge is apparently valued highly in cases such as this.

[BrianC]

Surely she has a well documented psychiatric history, what with so many personalities. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case reaching even half that number.

And yet, oddly, I can't seem to pull up any information on this anomaly.


And if you want some cases cited of people with 350 to 2,000 plus personalities, just check out the book The Shining Man with Hurt Hands by Ellis H. Skolfield. He mentions a few in there. You can read the book for free at:

www.fish-house.com/pdf/ShiningMan.pdf

Print it out, read it on screen...whatever you want to do, it's free.

[FSON]

My point is to prove the existence of a spiritual world. At that point, you must start contemplating a god of some sort...
OK, but why?

[avinson]

Lay off the mushrooms.

[flashstang04]

Lay off the mushrooms.


That comment single handedly changed my whole philosophy.... :rolleyes:

[FSON]

Lay off the mushrooms.
In some spiritual structures, these are used for furthering one's travel on the path back home.

[avinson]

That comment single handedly changed my whole philosophy.... :rolleyes:
Glad i could help you out!

[Mr Majestyk]

Humanity's perception of the world is limited to the five senses. For some that's enough, and they choose to believe that's all there is. It does make life simpler to adopt a such a myopic view of creation I suppose, but to each their own.

[jones4stangs]

Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition.
Huh? By what organization? Certianly not any practicing medical doctors?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

If you'd like, you can invite the satanic chick over to my house and perform a spell on me. I'll report the results as I get them.

[DarkWolf]

You obviously haven't a clue how the psychiatric field world and how multiples work either.

There are documented cases of people with over 2,000 different personalities.

Yeah... um, no.

Link it if you got it. Show us your mad skillz.

And no, not "the shining man". I want documented medical cases, in actual medical journals.

[jones4stangs]

I'm working with a person who has multiple personality disorder one day. She has 109 personalities. Some of her alters (alternate personalities) are Satanists (who do not like me, a Christian), because she was raised in a family of Satanists.

So, one night I go to bed, and my wife is sitting there with the light on in the bedroom (very out of character for her). I laid down and went to sleep. Just as I drifted off to sleep, I heard this little girl's voice chanting in a satanic language (which I've never heard before) and my entire body starts to shake. My wife sees me shaking and grabs me to wake me up. As I wake up, my legs and arms raise up off the bed and I come out of it.

My wife said, "I knew something was going to happen. That's why I left the light on." I asked how she knew something was going to happen. She said earlier that night when she came into the bedroom, she saw a demon sitting in the corner of the room. Not sure if she prayed for God to remove the demon or what, but she wanted to keep the light on afterwords. That's when she tells me for the first time that she can see demons (but only when necessary, as if God turns it on and off when needed).

Apparently, ever since she was possessed by a demon for three days when she was 5, she's been able to see demons. For instance, she said one time she walked into a Charismatic church and saw demons everywhere. I have another friend with the same ability and similar story.

The day after I was spiritually attacked, I go back to the multiple and revealed nothing except that I was attacked spiritually. I asked who did it. They said that a 9 year old child alter had cast the spell on me. I didn't tell them it was a little girl's voice I heard. They (the other alters) just knew who cast the spell and that it was a little girl alter, which confirmed that this was not something I just imagined.

Anyone care to explain that one away?
That's a pretty amazing story.

[poopnut2]

Yeah, but you can find a lot of crap on the internet too.

My point, exactly.

[FooFooTater]

Ummmm............when you say "Working with", can we assume that you mean counselor/client relationship and not in a co-worker relationship?

[BrianC]

OK, but why?

Because many people here are atheist, and do not believe there's such a thing as a spiritual world at all, and especially not a God. Proof of a spiritual world makes one have to consider a God.

[BrianC]

Huh? By what organization? Certianly not any practicing medical doctors?

No, I'm talking about the entire medical community now officially says that they can find NO physical cause for athsma, and that the only common factor in EVERY athsma patient is fear.

I think I said this before, but a girl who has always had athsma renounced the spirit of fear one day while I was helping her, and as soon as that happened, she suddenly could breathe normally for the first time in her life. She said she'd never been able to take a full, deep breath before in her life...only shallow breaths. Fear is a spirit, according to the Bible, and I have cast him out many times. The multiples I've cast him out of have watched him go into the water of life inside and sit there and be tortured in the water of life, but not die. Yet as soon as they renounced him, he explodes and is gone. He'll show up a day or two later again in the system because the multiple fears something again, which gives him grounds to come right back. The act of fearing welcomes him right back in. Pretty weird... I've cast out demons only to see them come right back 15 minutes later due to the multiple not renouncing the sin that let that demon in. Weird stuff...

[BrianC]

Yeah... um, no.

Link it if you got it. Show us your mad skillz.

And no, not "the shining man". I want documented medical cases, in actual medical journals.

Oh yea of little faith...

Here's a quote from a lady that wrote on the subject of memory recovery and MPD:
Many fathers, stepfathers, and uncles were subsequently accused and some were convicted. People turned up dozens, hundreds, even a thousand alters, some of which weren’t even human, as documented by Joan Acocella in a 1998 New Yorker piece. And it wasn’t just run-of-the-mill abuse they were reporting, but organized satanic ritual abuse.

Here's the link:
http://lifeloom.com/III1Ramsland.htm

I didn't read much of it. Just wanted to point out that she references how people have come up with over a thousand personalities...

Here's another quote from a different write-up:
Actually, in both these respects, Sybil's descendants soon out-stripped her. Patients were eventually producing a hundred, four hundred, a thousand alters. (A case with forty-five hundred was recently reported.)

Here's the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/a/acocella-hysteria.html

Just do a search like I did in Google to find this stuff. Use these search terms:
MPD thousand alters

You'll come up with a bunch of matches.

What happens is that a child will get abused either sexually, physically, emotionally or satanically before the age of four. Their mind can't handle it, and the mind flees into the spiritual world where the child's spirit person exists. But the mind splits and keeps that piece in the body to control everything and take the abuse. Everytime the person is abused or even perceives abuse, they will split. If a multiple thinks that losing a friend is abuse, they'll split (I've caused a lady to split once because she thought me having to not talk to her anymore was abuse and she couldn't handle it). A multiple can perceive all kinds of things as abuse once they split the first time. And for the rest of their life, they will be able to split when they perceive abuse. That's how people can split thousands of times. If a father abuses a daughter 2,000 times while she's growing up over 18+ years, then she will very likely have over 2,000 alters. Sometimes, the multiples will send the same alter out over and over again to take the abuse. Sometimes the alter that's sent out will split while taking the abuse.

Satanists are taught how to split alters into fragments, into threes, in spite of the Trinity. So, you find lots of multiples that are victims of Satanic Ritual Abuse where the Satanists cast spells on the multiples and split single alters into three different alters called fragments. It's slightly complicated, but not too bad. So, the cases where you have thousands of alters can be caused by things like fragmenting many times. Satanists, witches, pagans...they all know that multiples are links to the spiritual world and they know they can cast spells and do horrible things to multiples in the spiritual realm, and so they do it. It's messed up...

One lady I know of was beaten up, bloodied and maimed by her parents when she was 6 yrs old, then thrown into the cellar for a day for refusing to worship Satan. The next morning, the parents pull the girl out and she's completely healed. The girl says that her "light" came and healed her and fed her. They get really scared of "her light" and didn't know what it was. So she refuses to worship Satan again and she tells them, "You can beat me up and starve me all you want, but my light will just come feed me and heal me again!" They beat her up and starved her again, and sure enough...next day, she was completely healed and fed. lol It was Jesus doing this for her, of course, or the Holy Spirit. We're still not quite sure which one did it.

This girl's friend was killed by these Satanist parents right in front of her because her friend believed in Christ due to this girl. So, they cut the girl's corps in half and make the girl do horrible things to the bottom half of the corps. Then, they cut it into pieces and throw this little girl into a barrel with the body parts for like 24 hours. This girl clinged to the severed head of her friend the entire time. The girl is actually well adjusted today and it didn't mess her up, surprizingly. I think God didn't allow the girl to go mentally insane due to her loyalty to Him in taking the abuse for His name. That's my guess. None of this lady's alters are insane. I haven't met a multiple with insane alters. Just some really bad issues and fears, basically. It is messed up what these people go through. I can see how abuse like this would cause a child's mind to flee and split. Horrible horrible stuff from the time they're born.

Lots of victims of Satanic Ritual Abuse have lots of baby alters that don't come out and talk, of course, but are in the system, because the Satanists did horrible things to them as a baby and caused them to split many times. One lady was part of a Satanic cult and her purpose was to have babies they could sacrifice to their false gods. The lady had one baby and she actually loved this one and refused to give it up, so she ran. She got away and fully integrated back into a monomind (normal mind) with help from the author of that book.

[BrianC]

Ummmm............when you say "Working with", can we assume that you mean counselor/client relationship and not in a co-worker relationship?

Yeah, sort of in a counselor/client type relationship, but more so in a friend helping a friend relationship. I become friends with them and help them. I don't charge money, of course. I enjoy helping them. And unlike the psychiatric community, I actually get results, and get them very quickly, because I understand it and know how to combat it. Unfortunately, it's up to the multiple as to how quickly they want to heal, because it's much about how strong they can be and how hard they work to overcome fears and learn to love themselves and their other alters and submit to Jesus. Once they find Jesus inside, He can tell them the next step they need to take to healing. I could leave once they find Jesus, and they can continue to go to Jesus for each step to healing and He will lead them to healing the rest of the way till they're healed if they stick with Him. Lots are ashamed of stuff and won't go to Him over time because of it. Just depends on the person...

[jones4stangs]

No, I'm talking about the entire medical community now officially says that they can find NO physical cause for athsma, and that the only common factor in EVERY athsma patient is fear.
Huh? Please provide evidence to support this claim.

I've had athsma. My son has athsma. I've talked with pediatritions, lung specialist, and fellow athsmatics. I've read quite a bit of literature on the subject. Never have I heard of "fear" being assoicated with athsma is any way nor can I find it through a quick web search.

As far as the physical causes, I don't see any mystery there. It's true to say, different factors or combination of factores set off athsma is different people. Nevertheless, the triggers are well known and pretty commonly shared. I have never heard of fear being a trigger. I don't have an answer for why some people have athsma and other don't. However, what causes the irritations and how they develople into a full athsma attack are well known.

American Lung Association
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=22598 (http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=33276)

WHAT CAUSES ASTHMA?

Scientists are not sure why some people have asthma and others don't. For many people, a tendency to asthma may be inherited. Other factors may also be involved. The basic problem is inflammation of the airways.

IS ASTHMA "PSYCHOSOMATIC"? IS IT ALL IN THE HEAD?

No. People used to think asthma was a psychological problem. It is not. Asthma is a real medical problem, but too much stress can make asthma worse.

[jluv]

LMGDAO @ this thread and the op.

WOW! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[jones4stangs]

Yeah... um, no.

Link it if you got it. Show us your mad skillz.

And no, not "the shining man". I want documented medical cases, in actual medical journals.

Oh yea of little faith...

Here's a quote from a lady that wrote on the subject of memory recovery and MPD:
Many fathers, stepfathers, and uncles were subsequently accused and some were convicted. People turned up dozens, hundreds, even a thousand alters, some of which weren’t even human, as documented by Joan Acocella in a 1998 New Yorker piece. And it wasn’t just run-of-the-mill abuse they were reporting, but organized satanic ritual abuse.

Here's the link:
http://lifeloom.com/III1Ramsland.htm

I didn't read much of it. Just wanted to point out that she references how people have come up with over a thousand personalities...

Here's another quote from a different write-up:
Actually, in both these respects, Sybil's descendants soon out-stripped her. Patients were eventually producing a hundred, four hundred, a thousand alters. (A case with forty-five hundred was recently reported.)

Here's the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/a/acocella-hysteria.html

Just do a search like I did in Google to find this stuff. Use these search terms:
MPD thousand alters

You'll come up with a bunch of matches.

BrianC,

Uhhh, you might want to post a few better links. I did a quick read of both the provided links. Contrary to your intentions, these stories kind of refute the whole MPD thing. The authors of both articles have corresponding books, both of which paint the whole MPD industry as a fraud. They list people with hundred of alters as example of absurdity. (I'm paraphrasing of course.)


http://lifeloom.com/III1Ramsland.htm
Loftus, incensed, threw herself into proving that the techniques of recovered memory therapy could actually plant false memories, or at least add details that were not actually true. She became the premier researcher in the country to show just how unreliable memory can be – including and especially “recovered” memories - no matter how confident is the person who reports it.
.............
During that era, nevertheless, recovered memory therapy was popular and patients were told that symptoms like forgetfulness, daydreaming, and inner arguments were subtle indicators of MPD, and therefore of forgotten abuse. Some books stated that one-third of all women had suffered this. Many fathers, stepfathers, and uncles were subsequently accused and some were convicted. People turned up dozens, hundreds, even a thousand alters, some of which weren’t even human, as documented by Joan Acocella in a 1998 New Yorker piece.
..............
“Traumatologists” made a name for themselves, going to court as expert witnesses and offering self-help books that suggested that almost anyone could be the victim of child abuse and therefore have hidden personalities that they had long denied. This movement swept the country, as documented in Dr. Elaine Showalter’s Hystories, and increasingly more people sought a diagnosis of MPD to explain their troubles.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/a/acocella-hysteria.html?_r=2&oref=slogin
With this case the disorder not only changed, it spread. Prior to Sybil, MPD had been one of the rarest of mental disorders. In a 1944 article two researchers, W. S. Taylor and Mabel Martin, reported that a search of the medical literature of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries had yielded only seventy-six cases that met their definition. But after Sybil, MPD exploded. One expert estimates that between 1985 and 1995 there were almost 40,000 new cases. And curiously, the latter-day multiples looked a lot like Sybil. The modal MPD patient, experts reported, was a white North American female around age thirty. As with Sybil, her disorder had begun in childhood, flowering into a large constellation of alters. In one study of 236 cases, the mean number of alters was sixteen, Sybil's count exactly.
.............................
Actually, in both these respects, Sybil's descendants soon out-stripped her. Patients were eventually producing a hundred, four hundred, a thousand alters. (A case with forty-five hundred was recently reported.) And whereas Sybil had confined herself to human alters, later MPs branched out. In a Wisconsin malpractice case that was settled in 1977 for $2.4 million, the patient claimed that among the 126 alters she developed in MPD therapy there were several angels, a duck, and "Lillith," the bride of Satan. The Georgia-based psychiatrist George Ganaway, one of the first authorities to caution against fascination with MPD, reported that he had been presented with "sages, lobsters, chickens, tigers, a gorilla, a unicorn, and `God.'"

[Mateo5.0]

DEMONS BE GONE FROM THIS POST!

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4366/demonsagreeqb6.jpg

[BrianC]

BrianC,

Uhhh, you might want to post a few better links. I did a quick read of both the provided links. Contrary to your intentions, these stories kind of refute the whole MPD thing. The authors of both articles have corresponding books, both of which paint the whole MPD industry as a fraud. They list people with hundred of alters as example of absurdity. (I'm paraphrasing of course.)


Just because these authors at one point in their career thought that MPD/DID was a scam, doesn't mean it's true. It also doesn't negate the fact that they found actual cases where some people had thousands of alters. They are 100% incorrect as to this being a fraud. I can prove when someone's multiple. It's not hard to do.

As for searching for this stuff, I told you what search terms to use in Google. Go find it for yourself. It's not hard.

[BrianC]

[QUOTE=jones4stangs]Huh? Please provide evidence to support this claim.

I've had athsma. My son has athsma. I've talked with pediatritions, lung specialist, and fellow athsmatics. I've read quite a bit of literature on the subject. Never have I heard of "fear" being assoicated with athsma is any way nor can I find it through a quick web search.

As far as the physical causes, I don't see any mystery there. It's true to say, different factors or combination of factores set off athsma is different people. Nevertheless, the triggers are well known and pretty commonly shared. I have never heard of fear being a trigger. I don't have an answer for why some people have athsma and other don't. However, what causes the irritations and how they develople into a full athsma attack are well known.
[QUOTE]
You need to look at the most recent research on this. I don't remember how long ago they said made this claim of fear being the cause of athsma, but it wasn't long ago. I was just a confrence where they made this statement. They also broke out a Merk manual on diseases and showed that fear is always listed as the major cause of athsma.

I was just on the phone with a girl that was having an athsma attack. She could hardly breath and as SOON as I cast out the demon, she takes a full breath and is fine. Would you like to chat with me on yahoo? I can prove this to you. If you can do something to cause yourself an athsmatic attack, I guarantee I can make that attack stop immediately by casting out the demon.

Here's the problem, though. I can stop that attack dead in its tracks everytime, but if you keep fearing and you don't overcome the fear and the lie that you're trapped by this disease and it's not something you can overcome, you will continue to have attacks. Granted, you can cast that demon out everytime or command that demon to stop doing that to you, but unless you get rid of your fear of athsma and cast that demon out, you'll always have it.

If you learn something about spiritual warfare and how demons get in and effect us, you'll learn that we give them rights to be here and effect us by sinning in some form. Fear is a sin. Perfect love casts out fear, according to the Bible. One lady that's multiple told me that in her inside world, when I cast her demon of fear into the water of life, she saw him go into the water and he stayed there and would not die in the water for some reason. I told her to renounce fear out loud right now. She did and the demon explodes. Unfortunately, a day or two later, the demon was right back in because some other situation came up and she got fearful and gave him grounds to come back in.

This girl had never breathed a whole, deep breath in her life till the day she cast out fear by acknowledging that God loved her and accepting that He loved her. She took her first whole, deep breath and said it was amazing. She has a severe type of athsma that doesn't even allow her to take deep breaths. Pretty bad. She doesn't have it anymore, though. She has a much lighter form of it, because she hadn't fully gotten that demon out of her. She still fears some things... She can still fear other things, but not fear athsma anymore and trust God with her health, and the fear in that area will not come back and cause athsma if I understand it correctly. If you want to put me on your yahoo messenger or MSN messenger, here's my e-mail address: cephyr13@yahoo.com My name is cephyr13 on Yahoo.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

[QUOTE=jones4stangs]Huh? Please provide evidence to support this claim.

I've had athsma. My son has athsma. I've talked with pediatritions, lung specialist, and fellow athsmatics. I've read quite a bit of literature on the subject. Never have I heard of "fear" being assoicated with athsma is any way nor can I find it through a quick web search.

As far as the physical causes, I don't see any mystery there. It's true to say, different factors or combination of factores set off athsma is different people. Nevertheless, the triggers are well known and pretty commonly shared. I have never heard of fear being a trigger. I don't have an answer for why some people have athsma and other don't. However, what causes the irritations and how they develople into a full athsma attack are well known.
[QUOTE]
You need to look at the most recent research on this. I don't remember how long ago they said made this claim of fear being the cause of athsma, but it wasn't long ago. I was just a confrence where they made this statement. They also broke out a Merk manual on diseases and showed that fear is always listed as the major cause of athsma.

I was just on the phone with a girl that was having an athsma attack. She could hardly breath and as SOON as I cast out the demon, she takes a full breath and is fine. Would you like to chat with me on yahoo? I can prove this to you. If you can do something to cause yourself an athsmatic attack, I guarantee I can make that attack stop immediately by casting out the demon.

Here's the problem, though. I can stop that attack dead in its tracks everytime, but if you keep fearing and you don't overcome the fear and the lie that you're trapped by this disease and it's not something you can overcome, you will continue to have attacks. Granted, you can cast that demon out everytime or command that demon to stop doing that to you, but unless you get rid of your fear of athsma and cast that demon out, you'll always have it.

If you learn something about spiritual warfare and how demons get in and effect us, you'll learn that we give them rights to be here and effect us by sinning in some form. Fear is a sin. Perfect love casts out fear, according to the Bible. One lady that's multiple told me that in her inside world, when I cast her demon of fear into the water of life, she saw him go into the water and he stayed there and would not die in the water for some reason. I told her to renounce fear out loud right now. She did and the demon explodes. Unfortunately, a day or two later, the demon was right back in because some other situation came up and she got fearful and gave him grounds to come back in.

This girl had never breathed a whole, deep breath in her life till the day she cast out fear by acknowledging that God loved her and accepting that He loved her. She took her first whole, deep breath and said it was amazing. She has a severe type of athsma that doesn't even allow her to take deep breaths. Pretty bad. She doesn't have it anymore, though. She has a much lighter form of it, because she hadn't fully gotten that demon out of her. She still fears some things... She can still fear other things, but not fear athsma anymore and trust God with her health, and the fear in that area will not come back and cause athsma if I understand it correctly. If you want to put me on your yahoo messenger or MSN messenger, here's my e-mail address: cephyr13@yahoo.com My name is cephyr13 on Yahoo.


No offense, but what in the fuck are you talking about? Casting out an asthma causing demon?

[jluv]

No offense, but what in the f*ck are you talking about? Casting out an asthma causing demon?

This stuff is hilarious! Even if he's just joking around, it's pretty entertaining!

[redheadintx]

This stuff is hilarious! Even if he's just joking around, it's pretty entertaining!

It's freaking me out! :eek:

[AdamLX]

That's starting to border on "faith healing" and IMHO is getting a little rediculous.

[slow99]

This title should have been, "Explain this one, psychiatrists."

[jluv]

Get your hightops and koolaid ready! Here comes the comet!

[jones4stangs]

You need to look at the most recent research on this. I don't remember how long ago they said made this claim of fear being the cause of athsma, but it wasn't long ago. I was just a confrence where they made this statement. They also broke out a Merk manual on diseases and showed that fear is always listed as the major cause of athsma.
Where can I find this information about asthma being cause by fear? I've searched the web and only come up with examples, like this....

Merck & Co., Inc.
http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec05/ch048/ch048a.html

Asthma is a disease of diffuse airway inflammation caused by a variety of triggering stimuli resulting in partially or completely reversible bronchoconstriction. Symptoms and signs include dyspnea, chest tightness, and wheezing. The diagnosis is based on history, physical examination, and pulmonary function tests. Treatment involves controlling triggering factors and drug therapy, most commonly with inhaled β-agonists and inhaled corticosteroids.

Development of asthma is multifactorial and depends on interactions between multiple susceptibility genes and environmental factors.

Susceptibility genes are thought to include those for T-helper 2 (TH2) cells and their cytokines (IL-4, -5, -9, and -13) and the recently identified ADAM33 gene, which may stimulate airway smooth muscle and fibroblast proliferation or regulate cytokine production.

Evidence clearly implicates household (dust mite, cockroach, pet) and other environmental (pollen) allergens in disease development in older children and adults. Endotoxin infection or exposure early in life can induce tolerance and may be protective. Air pollution is not definitively linked to disease development, though it may trigger exacerbations. Diets low in vitamins C and E and in ω–3 fatty acids have been linked to asthma, as has obesity. Asthma has also been linked to perinatal factors, such as young maternal age, poor maternal nutrition, prematurity, low birthweight, and lack of breastfeeding. The role of childhood exposure to cigarette smoke is controversial, with some studies finding a contributory and some a protective effect.

[DarkWolf]

Oh yea of little faith...

Here's a quote from a lady that wrote on the subject of memory recovery and MPD:
Many fathers, stepfathers, and uncles were subsequently accused and some were convicted. People turned up dozens, hundreds, even a thousand alters, some of which weren’t even human, as documented by Joan Acocella in a 1998 New Yorker piece. And it wasn’t just run-of-the-mill abuse they were reporting, but organized satanic ritual abuse.

Here's the link:
http://lifeloom.com/III1Ramsland.htm

Yeah, um... here's the whole quote:

"During that era, nevertheless, recovered memory therapy was popular and patients were told that symptoms like forgetfulness, daydreaming, and inner arguments were subtle indicators of MPD, and therefore of forgotten abuse. Some books stated that one-third of all women had suffered this. Many fathers, stepfathers, and uncles were subsequently accused and some were convicted. People turned up dozens, hundreds, even a thousand alters, some of which weren’t even human, as documented by Joan Acocella in a 1998 New Yorker piece. And it wasn’t just run-of-the-mill abuse they were reporting, but organized satanic ritual abuse. Whole businesses sprang up and flourished, with book publishers, convention promoters, group therapists, individual therapists, national organizations, and hospitals benefiting. (McNally makes a point of stating that when insurance ran out, such people were either “cured” or let go.)"

It's talking about falsified cases, either deliberately by the patient, or by the "therapist" in order to siphon insurance money. The New Yorker piece, and subsequent book by the same author, also documents these false MPD cases.

Context is our friend. For shame, your neglect.

Care to try again?

As for the rest of your comments in this thread so far... seriously, seek psychiatric help, because you've got a massive delusion going on.

Just because these authors at one point in their career thought that MPD/DID was a scam, doesn't mean it's true. It also doesn't negate the fact that they found actual cases where some people had thousands of alters.

I'm shocked. Even when your own "proof" is found wanting, you still cling to it.

They did not find "actual cases" of thousands of personalities. They found false claims. HUGE difference.

I was just on the phone with a girl that was having an athsma attack. She could hardly breath and as SOON as I cast out the demon, she takes a full breath and is fine. Would you like to chat with me on yahoo? I can prove this to you. If you can do something to cause yourself an athsmatic attack, I guarantee I can make that attack stop immediately by casting out the demon.

...

I

I don't have anything to say. The absolute absurdity has left me speechless.

Seek psychiatric help. Please.

[BrianC]

That's starting to border on "faith healing" and IMHO is getting a little rediculous.

Has nothing to do with "faith healing." The Law given to the Jews by God said that if you don't follow these laws, you will be cursed with every kind of disease. And when Jesus was healing this blind man (blind from birth), the Jews asked Him, "Who sinned, his mother or his father to cause him to be blind from birth?" Jesus said, "Neither. This man is blind to show the glory of God." Jesus heals the guy.

Now, 50% of the time when someone came to Jesus for healing, Jesus would not say, "You are healed." Jesus would say, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more," then suddenly they were healed. So, when Jesus forgave the sins, and the sins left the person's spirit, the physical symptoms (diseases or whatever) left the body and the person was fine.

And finally, we're told that death came into the world through sin, and that before sin there was no death. So, sin causes death somehow, and God says in the law that if you sin (go against God), you will be cursed with every kind of disease.

So that's where that belief comes from. God said it, Jews knew it, and Jesus proved that the absense of sin healed the physical symptoms. Pretty simple. So fear is a sin, and if you stop fearing, the physical symptoms of fear go away. It's not faith healing, it's just healing yourself through not sinning. There's even a verse that says we will heal ourselves through getting rid of sin. That one, though, I'd have to look up in my notes. Has nothing to do with faith healing...

[BrianC]

[QUOTE=BrianC][QUOTE=jones4stangs]Huh? Please provide evidence to support this claim.

I've had athsma. My son has athsma. I've talked with pediatritions, lung specialist, and fellow athsmatics. I've read quite a bit of literature on the subject. Never have I heard of "fear" being assoicated with athsma is any way nor can I find it through a quick web search.

As far as the physical causes, I don't see any mystery there. It's true to say, different factors or combination of factores set off athsma is different people. Nevertheless, the triggers are well known and pretty commonly shared. I have never heard of fear being a trigger. I don't have an answer for why some people have athsma and other don't. However, what causes the irritations and how they develople into a full athsma attack are well known.



No offense, but what in the fuck are you talking about? Casting out an asthma causing demon?

Casting out a demon of fear. The result of fear is the athsma. That's an extreme case of fear somewhere in life, or it is something that was passed down by your father, and that you passed to your son. In the Bible, we're also told that generational curses happen and are passed down from father to son, and if the son doesn't get rid of the sin from his life, it will keep getting passed down generation to generation.

Again, like I said, if you want to come onto Yahoo messenger, I guarantee, 100%, that I can prove to you that I can stop an athsma attack immediately by casting out that demon, or by making that demon stop causing those effects. I don't take the credit, but Jesus does it in His name, I just use His name/authority to do it. Demons have to obey a command given in Jesus' name. All I know is that every demon I've commanded in Jesus' name has done exactly what I said. Can't explain it...just know that's how it works...

Whatever you do, though, if you come onto Yahoo messenger with me and do this, keep your inhailer besides you so that you're not in fear of this not working. You have to eliminate fear completely so that it doesn't effect you. Then again, the girl I cast that demon out of didn't let go of fear and her athsma attack still stopped. I guess the demon left momentarily because he was commanded to do so, and the attack stopped. Well, regardless, I'm not worried about it not working. If I were, I wouldn't have offered up the challenge.

[BrianC]

Get your hightops and koolaid ready! Here comes the comet!

Only idiots join cults like the hailbob comet cult. That whole thing started with a prank call to a radio station. LOL Idiots believed the prank caller was being serious, so they started a cult out of it. That's too funny...

[BrianC]

Yeah, um... here's the whole quote:

"During that era, nevertheless, recovered memory therapy was popular and patients were told that symptoms like forgetfulness, daydreaming, and inner arguments were subtle indicators of MPD, and therefore of forgotten abuse. Some books stated that one-third of all women had suffered this. Many fathers, stepfathers, and uncles were subsequently accused and some were convicted. People turned up dozens, hundreds, even a thousand alters, some of which weren’t even human, as documented by Joan Acocella in a 1998 New Yorker piece. And it wasn’t just run-of-the-mill abuse they were reporting, but organized satanic ritual abuse. Whole businesses sprang up and flourished, with book publishers, convention promoters, group therapists, individual therapists, national organizations, and hospitals benefiting. (McNally makes a point of stating that when insurance ran out, such people were either “cured” or let go.)"

It's talking about falsified cases, either deliberately by the patient, or by the "therapist" in order to siphon insurance money. The New Yorker piece, and subsequent book by the same author, also documents these false MPD cases.

Context is our friend. For shame, your neglect.

Care to try again?

As for the rest of your comments in this thread so far... seriously, seek psychiatric help, because you've got a massive delusion going on.



I'm shocked. Even when your own "proof" is found wanting, you still cling to it.

They did not find "actual cases" of thousands of personalities. They found false claims. HUGE difference.



...

I

I don't have anything to say. The absolute absurdity has left me speechless.

Seek psychiatric help. Please.

Well, if Jones4stangs will come onto Yahoo chat with me and let me stop an athsma attack, we'll see what the truth is. :)

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

[QUOTE=ClockwrkOrangeS4][QUOTE=BrianC]

Casting out a demon of fear. The result of fear is the athsma. That's an extreme case of fear somewhere in life, or it is something that was passed down by your father, and that you passed to your son. In the Bible, we're also told that generational curses happen and are passed down from father to son, and if the son doesn't get rid of the sin from his life, it will keep getting passed down generation to generation.

Again, like I said, if you want to come onto Yahoo messenger, I guarantee, 100%, that I can prove to you that I can stop an athsma attack immediately by casting out that demon, or by making that demon stop causing those effects. I don't take the credit, but Jesus does it in His name, I just use His name/authority to do it. Demons have to obey a command given in Jesus' name. All I know is that every demon I've commanded in Jesus' name has done exactly what I said. Can't explain it...just know that's how it works...

Whatever you do, though, if you come onto Yahoo messenger with me and do this, keep your inhailer besides you so that you're not in fear of this not working. You have to eliminate fear completely so that it doesn't effect you. Then again, the girl I cast that demon out of didn't let go of fear and her athsma attack still stopped. I guess the demon left momentarily because he was commanded to do so, and the attack stopped. Well, regardless, I'm not worried about it not working. If I were, I wouldn't have offered up the challenge.

I don't have asthma, I'm atheist

[Mr Majestyk]

I don't have asthma, I'm atheist

I don't have asthma either, I'm Christian

[flashstang04]

Well, if Jones4stangs will come onto Yahoo chat with me and let me stop an athsma attack, we'll see what the truth is. :)

Brain is willing to back up what he is saying....try it, what has anyone got to lose?

[DarkWolf]

Brain is willing to back up what he is saying....try it, what has anyone got to lose?

I'd love to test his claim. Unfortunately I lack the requisite asthma demon.

[jluv]

I'm having an asthma attack right now. Demons everywhere! One of them is holding a pork chop!

[Hollywood]

Has nothing to do with "faith healing." The Law given to the Jews by God said that if you don't follow these laws, you will be cursed with every kind of disease. And when Jesus was healing this blind man (blind from birth), the Jews asked Him, "Who sinned, his mother or his father to cause him to be blind from birth?" Jesus said, "Neither. This man is blind to show the glory of God." Jesus heals the guy.

Now, 50% of the time when someone came to Jesus for healing, Jesus would not say, "You are healed." Jesus would say, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more," then suddenly they were healed. So, when Jesus forgave the sins, and the sins left the person's spirit, the physical symptoms (diseases or whatever) left the body and the person was fine.

And finally, we're told that death came into the world through sin, and that before sin there was no death. So, sin causes death somehow, and God says in the law that if you sin (go against God), you will be cursed with every kind of disease.

So that's where that belief comes from. God said it, Jews knew it, and Jesus proved that the absense of sin healed the physical symptoms. Pretty simple. So fear is a sin, and if you stop fearing, the physical symptoms of fear go away. It's not faith healing, it's just healing yourself through not sinning. There's even a verse that says we will heal ourselves through getting rid of sin. That one, though, I'd have to look up in my notes. Has nothing to do with faith healing...


lmao, now that is some funny shit. And we wonder how anything like Jonestown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown) could have ever happened. LOL. Put the crack pipe down.

[jones4stangs]

Well, if Jones4stangs will come onto Yahoo chat with me and let me stop an athsma attack, we'll see what the truth is. :)
I don't have asthma anymore. As with many people, I seem to have out grown it completely. My son has asthma. His asthma is very much under control.

The idea of getting on the internet and starting up a chat while my son is having an asthma attack is ...........

Dude, to be honest, I don't trust you. I think your whole premise of fear causing asthma is unfounded. If you want to link it to sin, so be it. However, your claims that this has been accepted by the medical community or documented by anyone creditable is severely lacking if not a strait up lie.

[jones4stangs]

Brain is willing to back up what he is saying....try it, what has anyone got to lose?
Are you a parent? Tell you what, next time you think your child needs to make a trip to the hospital, don't go. Instead, call BrianC and try him out. After the experiment please come back and tell us all about your experience with DFPS. Maybe then we can give you some advice on how to your kids out of foster care.

[jluv]

If you want to link it to sin, so be it. However, your claims that this has been accepted by the medical community or documented by anyone creditable is severely lacking if not a strait up lie.

That's all I've seen him do in pretty much every one of his posts.

[AdamLX]

So that's where that belief comes from. God said it, Jews knew it, and Jesus proved that the absense of sin healed the physical symptoms. Pretty simple. So fear is a sin, and if you stop fearing, the physical symptoms of fear go away. It's not faith healing, it's just healing yourself through not sinning. There's even a verse that says we will heal ourselves through getting rid of sin. That one, though, I'd have to look up in my notes. Has nothing to do with faith healing...


So does this philosophy apply soley to having asthma or am I understanding you as saying if we have no sin, that nobody would have any sickness or disease and we would all be perfectly healthy?

[Mr Majestyk]

That would be true in my opinion, however no one in this world is without sin. I don't agree that fear itself is a sin, but it could be a result of sin in some cases.

[BrianC]

I don't have asthma anymore. As with many people, I seem to have out grown it completely. My son has asthma. His asthma is very much under control.

The idea of getting on the internet and starting up a chat while my son is having an asthma attack is ...........

Dude, to be honest, I don't trust you. I think your whole premise of fear causing asthma is unfounded. If you want to link it to sin, so be it. However, your claims that this has been accepted by the medical community or documented by anyone creditable is severely lacking if not a strait up lie.

I wouldn't ask you to do this with your son. If I were there, and your son had an attack, sure I could take care of that. But I wouldn't ask you to make your son have an attack to show you this. If anyone can find anyone that has athsma and wants to come onto chat with me, so be it. I've offered it up. I have no doubts about this. Seen attacks stop before immediately, everytime. I wouldn't have offered if I didn't know if it would work or not.

Let me see what I can find on athsma and fear:

http://books.google.com/books?id=MfYwbDUh15YC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=fear+athsma&source=web&ots=zYQn4_BLpQ&sig=7UTSfprgzd5SsxmH2ybeVBZtFNA

Here are some excerpts:
"For example, shortness of breath is an example of athsma and of panic disorder." (panic/fear)

"Research on the role of panic-fear in athsma has focused on generalized panic-fear and athsma-specific panic-fear."

How might fearful reaction and social relationships interact with patients with athsma? Two models are relevant: first, the model of the safety signal which was developed based on persons with panic disorder. Safety signals are items (e.g., medications) or people associated with feelings of security and relief (Rachman 1984). Among patients with athsma, the presence of the significant other may be hypothesized to decrease fearful cognitions, and be associated with lesser reports of athsma symptoms...extending this model to athsma, to the extent that the significant other is a source of stress, the significant other may be associated with increasing discomfort and greater reports of athsma symptoms over time."

Read the part called Psychological Interventions for Athsma.

People that learn that airborn things cause athsma attacks will fear those things outside, and therefore, the athsma attack is associated with the object in the air, and the fear aspect is not attributed to the cause. But, psychologists disagree and make the claim that it's all based in fear, and that's why they have far more success with athsma patients than doctors do.

You really should read up on this stuff. You grew out of it, and that could mean a number of things. Notice that the presence of a significant other can stop an attack? When did you meet your wife or get married?

What age was your last athsma attack?

[BrianC]

That would be true in my opinion, however no one in this world is without sin. I don't agree that fear itself is a sin, but it could be a result of sin in some cases.

Fear and faith are opposites. When you have faith in God to take care of you, you have no fear. So, fearing is not trusting God to protect you, therefore, it's basically a lack of trust in God and I would say that's basically a sin. God says to trust Him and let Him protect you, yet when we fear or worry, we are doing exactly the opposite of His command. I would define sin as rebellion against God or disobeying Him. I disobey quite a bit at times and do stupid things. There are times that I fear, and I know that's the opposite of faith and it's a sin...but I don't focus on sin. I just focus on getting closer to God, and the sin and fear just kind of drop off of me.

[BrianC]

So does this philosophy apply soley to having asthma or am I understanding you as saying if we have no sin, that nobody would have any sickness or disease and we would all be perfectly healthy?

Yeah, if you could actually get rid of ALL sin, then you would be perfectly healthy. Now, if your leg got chopped off, it's not going to grow back because you're not sinful. lol But you would be a healthy one-legged person. :)

The Jews approach this from the view of "eliminating sin," putting the focus on sin... Christians are supposed to view it from the opposite direction of learning who you are in Christ and getting closer to Him, and you have no desire to sin anymore so the sins fall away. I was always getting sick before I was saved. Once I was saved, nearly all of my sicknesses or ability to catch sickness went away. The only thing I ever get sick with now is a sinus infection, very rarely, because I don't seem to have fixed whatever problem causes my allergies. So food and airborn things will make my sinuses run just a tad sometimes, and when the weather changes, if I don't watch out, sometimes I can get a sinus infection.

[BrianC]

That's all I've seen him do in pretty much every one of his posts.

You can't seem to find anything on the internet, because I keep showing you proof of what I've said, but you act as if you saw nothing. lol It's kind of funny, actually. I don't bother with completely irrational people.

[jluv]

You can't seem to find anything on the internet, because I keep showing you proof of what I've said, but you act as if you saw nothing. lol It's kind of funny, actually. I don't bother with completely irrational people.

You are a completely irrational person, which in turn makes you think that the rational people are the irrational ones.

You have not posted squat that proves your bs. The stuff you post either has nothing to do with what you say, or it actually disproves it.

If anything, your crazy talk is blasphemous. I find it quite entertaining, but I bet God just wants you to shut up.

[DarkWolf]

There's never been doubt that panic attacks resemble asthma attacks. Fear is most certainly linked to panic attacks.

But as we've gone over already in this thread, you can't claim false cases as proof. You tried it with MPD, and now you're trying it with asthma. A panic attack can be misinterpreted as an asthma attack, because the symptoms are almost identical. That does not in any way indicate fear as the cause of asthma.

[Mr Majestyk]

Fear and faith are opposites. When you have faith in God to take care of you, you have no fear. So, fearing is not trusting God to protect you, therefore, it's basically a lack of trust in God and I would say that's basically a sin. God says to trust Him and let Him protect you, yet when we fear or worry, we are doing exactly the opposite of His command. I would define sin as rebellion against God or disobeying Him. I disobey quite a bit at times and do stupid things. There are times that I fear, and I know that's the opposite of faith and it's a sin...but I don't focus on sin. I just focus on getting closer to God, and the sin and fear just kind of drop off of me.

I see sin also as as separation from God and his people. Breaking any of the first four of the Ten Commandments separates us from God, and breaking any of the last six separates us from his people.

[AdamLX]

Yeah, if you could actually get rid of ALL sin, then you would be perfectly healthy. Now, if your leg got chopped off, it's not going to grow back because you're not sinful. lol But you would be a healthy one-legged person. :)

The Jews approach this from the view of "eliminating sin," putting the focus on sin... Christians are supposed to view it from the opposite direction of learning who you are in Christ and getting closer to Him, and you have no desire to sin anymore so the sins fall away. I was always getting sick before I was saved. Once I was saved, nearly all of my sicknesses or ability to catch sickness went away. The only thing I ever get sick with now is a sinus infection, very rarely, because I don't seem to have fixed whatever problem causes my allergies. So food and airborn things will make my sinuses run just a tad sometimes, and when the weather changes, if I don't watch out, sometimes I can get a sinus infection.

So since you have been "saved" you have had no real illness. Ok fair enough...

Having been "saved", what would you say if you got the Flu, needed surgery or an infection etc? That's a little more than eating the wrong thing.

[BrianC]

There's never been doubt that panic attacks resemble asthma attacks. Fear is most certainly linked to panic attacks.

But as we've gone over already in this thread, you can't claim false cases as proof. You tried it with MPD, and now you're trying it with asthma. A panic attack can be misinterpreted as an asthma attack, because the symptoms are almost identical. That does not in any way indicate fear as the cause of asthma.

Now, you're just full of it. I MPD is not false. Just because some people CLAIM they BELIEVE there are false cases of thousands of personalities doesn't mean it's true. And if you look at the majority of research out there, they will NOT claim these are false cases. You are just parroting the things that fit your stance in order to use them against me because you don't like what I have to say.

And in that article I showed you, it did not say anyone was confusing panic attacks for athsma attacks. Read it again. It said that panic/fear causes athsma attacks to happen. You seriously need to read this stuff and understand what you're reading before you come back and comment with these completely unfounded remarks.

I have quite a bit of experience with MPD, and I know exactly how to tell if a multiple if faking or not faking. I have known multiples with 109 alternate personalities, and I have known of some with less. There are others who have tons, but we don't know how many they have. There are others with just a few personalities, because they were only abused a few times. You have absolutely no experience with this, but suddenly you can read an article and you know that it's absurd that someone would have thousands of alters. Regardless of whether someone has thousands of alters, it doesn't negate anything I've said regarding multiples, so why bother with what you're persuing in regard to this?

[BrianC]

So since you have been "saved" you have had no real illness. Ok fair enough...

Having been "saved", what would you say if you got the Flu, needed surgery or an infection etc? That's a little more than eating the wrong thing.

My wife gets the flu. My friends get the flue. My parents get the flu. I have taken care of all of them while they have the flu, and yet I have never gotten it after I was born again. Got it plenty of times before I was saved, though, oddly enough. I haven't caught anything from anyone since I've been saved.

Oh, and with the flu, one doctor's research showed that high doses of vitamin D kept people from getting the flu who were normally susceptible. Vitamin D causes the immune system to come from an autoimmune state to a normal immune state. Flu is autoimmune, and therefore, you cannot catch it if you have a lot of vitamin D in your system. Now, that said, I am known to have a vitamin D deficiency. In the last year I've had to start taking it. Yet, I have never gotten the flu in all these years.

[jones4stangs]

I wouldn't ask you to do this with your son. If I were there, and your son had an attack, sure I could take care of that. But I wouldn't ask you to make your son have an attack to show you this. If anyone can find anyone that has athsma and wants to come onto chat with me, so be it. I've offered it up. I have no doubts about this. Seen attacks stop before immediately, everytime. I wouldn't have offered if I didn't know if it would work or not.

Let me see what I can find on athsma and fear:

http://books.google.com/books?id=MfYwbDUh15YC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=fear+athsma&source=web&ots=zYQn4_BLpQ&sig=7UTSfprgzd5SsxmH2ybeVBZtFNA

Here are some excerpts:
"For example, shortness of breath is an example of athsma and of panic disorder." (panic/fear)

"Research on the role of panic-fear in athsma has focused on generalized panic-fear and athsma-specific panic-fear."

How might fearful reaction and social relationships interact with patients with athsma? Two models are relevant: first, the model of the safety signal which was developed based on persons with panic disorder. Safety signals are items (e.g., medications) or people associated with feelings of security and relief (Rachman 1984). Among patients with athsma, the presence of the significant other may be hypothesized to decrease fearful cognitions, and be associated with lesser reports of athsma symptoms...extending this model to athsma, to the extent that the significant other is a source of stress, the significant other may be associated with increasing discomfort and greater reports of athsma symptoms over time."

Read the part called Psychological Interventions for Athsma.

People that learn that airborn things cause athsma attacks will fear those things outside, and therefore, the athsma attack is associated with the object in the air, and the fear aspect is not attributed to the cause. But, psychologists disagree and make the claim that it's all based in fear, and that's why they have far more success with athsma patients than doctors do.

You really should read up on this stuff. You grew out of it, and that could mean a number of things. Notice that the presence of a significant other can stop an attack? When did you meet your wife or get married?

What age was your last athsma attack?
First of all, let’s recap. You've stated the following:

Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition.

No, I'm talking about the entire medical community now officially says that they can find NO physical cause for athsma, and that the only common factor in EVERY athsma patient is fear.

I've submitted two source that state otherwise from the American Lung Association and Merck & Co., Inc..

I asked for you to find a source to support your claims and you submitted the above from the Handbook of Psychology.

In short, the information from in the Handbook of Psychology, does not support your statements. In fact, it provides plenty of things that oppose your statements.

Nevertheless, thank you for the link. I read most of it and it contained some very good information.

Now to the meat of it:
The chapter begins by stating what they think causes astham.

Asthna and allergies co-occur frequently; allergies are a common trigger for an asthma exacerbation. About 60% of person with asthma are allergic; the development of asthma and allergies may occur early in childhood as a common outcome of immune system development. Some generic predisposition is probably necessary to develop asthma, but not all persons who are predisposed will develop asthma; family stress seems to be implicated in its development in childhood.

So, do they say fear causes asthma? No.

Now, why are they writing about asthma?

Asthma is a condition worthy of the attention and efforts of behavioral scientists: psychosocial variables may be implicated in the initiation, course and outcomes of asthma; psychological interventions have a role in the treatment of asthma as a complement to the use of medications.

I like the words they chose, "may be". Are they saying these psychosocial variables cause asthma? Nope. They go on to show that different psychosocial variable can kick off the mechanics that may lead to an asthma attack in a person who has asthma.

So, where does fear come into their discussion?

Other Psychological Variable and Their Associations with Self-Care and Medical Utilization.

Apart from the categories of psychiatric diagnoses, certain psychosocial characteristics have been reliably linked to nonoptimal self-care and medical utilization. We will examine two characteristics in terms of their associations with selfcare and medical utilization behaviors, the tendency to respond to asthma with panic-fear and social relationships.

High asthma-specific panic-fear is accompanied by more catastrophic cognitions, particulary among patients who also meet criteria for panic disorder, suggesting that cognitive interventions are indicated for patients with co-morbid asthama and panic disorder.

This does not deal with what causes asthma, but rather how someone who is experiencing an asthma attack may become scared. In simple terms, when your having an asthma attack you can't breath right. This is certainly a call for serious concern, but some people strait freak out. Try are calling this panic, due to the onset of an asthma attack "asthma-specific panic-fear".

So, what conclusions are drawn in this piece?

Our review of the associations of asthma with stress or emotions suggested that few general statements can be made across persons: Stress or emotions are associated with pulmonary function among some but not all persons with asthma, and furthermore, emotions associated with asthma may vary from person to person. Despite the methodological challenges inherent in this area of research, an appropriate conclusion appears to be that stress or certain emotions are salient covariates of pulmonary function for some persons and that this association should be determined on a personal, or idiographic, basis.

Not only is fear not one of their causes. They say stress and emotions only play a part how people with asthma should be treated.

Concerning your example of the girl; I’m not one to knock a person’s experience. However, it is worth noting, that medication is not necessary to stop the onset of an asthma attack. Often, if the person can calm down they can return to regular respiratory function without medicine. This ability is addressed in this book and a good reason why they think psychology should be part of asthma research.

Then there is also this element that is worthy of consideration:

An asthma attack may be characterized by hypercapnia (excessive carbon dioxide) and hypoxia (lack of oxygen), which may partially account for the high prevalence of anxiety disorders among persons with asthma.


Would you care to try to provide another source to support your statement?

[DarkWolf]

Now, you're just full of it. I MPD is not false. Just because some people CLAIM they BELIEVE there are false cases of thousands of personalities doesn't mean it's true. And if you look at the majority of research out there, they will NOT claim these are false cases. You are just parroting the things that fit your stance in order to use them against me because you don't like what I have to say.

I never suggested MPD was fake. The links you provided, documented fraudulent cases. YOU provided the links to back up your assertion that thousands of alters have been documented. But when the links were shown to REFUTE your assertion, you backpedal and make the ridiculous suggestion that even the fake cases are valid as evidence of thousands of alters being documented.

And in that article I showed you, it did not say anyone was confusing panic attacks for athsma attacks. Read it again. It said that panic/fear causes athsma attacks to happen. You seriously need to read this stuff and understand what you're reading before you come back and comment with these completely unfounded remarks.

Seriously, you really should read these links before looking like a jack-ass.

From the book you linked:

Psychiatric disorders impede the ability of patients with asthma to perceive accurately their pulmonary status and to respond appropriately. Both poor perceivers, whose perceived breathlessness is less than actual airflow limitation, and "exaggerated perceivers," whose perceived breathlessness is greater than actual airflow limitations, were five and seven times, respectively, more likely to have psychiatric disorders than were more accurate perceivers.

First, poor perception may be a consequence of psychiatric disorders by creating difficulties with concentration because of the distracting and disabling emotion symptoms. Second, asthma symptoms may be similar to symptoms of certain psychiatric disorders, leading to confusion about the source of the symptoms among patients with both types of disorders. For example, shortness of breath is a symptom of asthma and of panic disorder. Errors in discrimination and attribution, such as taking an anxiolytic in response to a supposed panic attack, would delay appropriate treatment if the symptoms actually reflected an exacerbation of asthma. Third, poor perception and psychiatric disorders may reflect a common pathway, such as priming or kindling effects for emotional and somatic sensations. Asthma occurring in the context of a comorbid psychiatric disorder should cue providers to assess patients' perceptual accuracy regarding the pulmonary status, for example, by comparing perceptions of dyspnea with peak expiratory flow.

Other Psychological Variables and Their Associations with Self-Care and Medical Utilization

Apart from categories of psychiatric diagnoses, certain psychosocial characteristics have been reliably linked to non-optimal self-care and medical utilization. We will examine two characteristics in terms of their associations with self-care and medical utilization behaviors, the tendency to respond to asthma with panic-fear and social relationships.

Panic-Fear

Research on the role of panic-fear in asthma has focused on generalized panic-fear and asthma-specific panic fear. Generalized tendencies toward panic-fear reactions have been measured using a subscale of the MMPI, and tendencies for panicky and fearful responses specifically to asthma symptoms have been measured using a subscale of the Asthma Symptom Checklist. Independent of objective asthma severity, both high generalized and asthma-specific panic-fear have been associated with more medical utilization. However, generalized panic-fear may be a better predictor of asthma-related morbidity than asthma-specific panic-fear. Greater generalized panic-fear has been associated with higher rehospitalization rates, whereas greater illness-specific panic-fear has been associated with lower rehospitalization rates. High asthma-specific panic-fear is accompanied by more catastrophic cognitions, particularly among patients who also meet criteria for panic disorder, suggesting that cognitive interventions are indicated for patients with co-morbid asthma and panic disorder. Persons with high generalized panic-fear may not be able to determine the seriousness of a threat, and determine onset and offset of those threats, leading to a generally heightened reactivity.

As you can see, it clearly says panic attacks can be confused for asthma attacks. Patients with psychological disorders (such as panic disorder), as well as asthma, will often confuse a fear-based panic attack, as an asthma attack. Sometimes during an actual asthma attack a patient may experience panic-fear, naturally, because they can't breathe. One might just panic in that situation. One might just be a little scared in that situation.

It also goes on to say that patients with generalized panic-fear (which would be panic disorder), are more likely to be rehospitalized, where as asthma-specific panic-fear (those who do not have panic disorder, but do panic because they can't breathe), are less likely to be rehospitalized. The reasoning behind this, is patients with panic disorder tend have asthma related morbidity. Essentially perceived breathlessness is greater than actual airflow limitations. They think it's worse than it actually is.

People can have asthma. People can have panic attacks. People can have asthma and panic attacks. But NOWHERE does it link fear as a cause for asthma. Fear as an effect of asthma, yes. NOT as a cause.

I have quite a bit of experience with MPD, and I know exactly how to tell if a multiple if faking or not faking. I have known multiples with 109 alternate personalities, and I have known of some with less. There are others who have tons, but we don't know how many they have. There are others with just a few personalities, because they were only abused a few times. You have absolutely no experience with this, but suddenly you can read an article and you know that it's absurd that someone would have thousands of alters. Regardless of whether someone has thousands of alters, it doesn't negate anything I've said regarding multiples, so why bother with what you're persuing in regard to this?

My pursuit is simple. I would like documented cases of hundreds of alters. Fraudulent cases are not valid. I'll throw you a bone and not request cases of thousands, but you're more than welcome to try and find them if you'd like.

So far, EVERY link you've provided has debunked your arguments. I find that highly amusing.

[BrianC]

Let me email a friend that's a therapist and see what sources they have. I'm not finding the stuff on the internet. I may have to ask my wife to log into the university's resources for research studies. The statement about fear being the cause of athsma was pretty recent. But even the Merck manual states fear as a cause. Let me see what I can find...

[AdamLX]

My wife gets the flu. My friends get the flue. My parents get the flu. I have taken care of all of them while they have the flu, and yet I have never gotten it after I was born again. Got it plenty of times before I was saved, though, oddly enough. I haven't caught anything from anyone since I've been saved.

Oh, and with the flu, one doctor's research showed that high doses of vitamin D kept people from getting the flu who were normally susceptible. Vitamin D causes the immune system to come from an autoimmune state to a normal immune state. Flu is autoimmune, and therefore, you cannot catch it if you have a lot of vitamin D in your system. Now, that said, I am known to have a vitamin D deficiency. In the last year I've had to start taking it. Yet, I have never gotten the flu in all these years.

That's what I was thinking. I just figured this guy, of all people, would be the healthiest of them all.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/02/01/pope.health/index.html)

Mainly this...
The pope suffers from a number of chronic ailments, including Parkinson's disease. He has survived an assassination attempt and undergone nine operations -- including a hip replacement.

He must be one sinning guy do deserve all of that.

[jluv]

Here are some highlights of the things you've posted on this thread alone. I see lots of backpedaling and some pretty ironic criticism.

Read it again. It said that panic/fear causes athsma attacks to happen. You seriously need to read this stuff and understand what you're reading before you come back and comment with these completely unfounded remarks.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BrianC] You can't seem to find anything on the internet, because I keep showing you proof of what I've said, but you act as if you saw nothing. lol It's kind of funny, actually.

Let me email a friend that's a therapist and see what sources they have. I'm not finding the stuff on the internet.

Oh, and I posted this last one for good measure.

Again, like I said, if you want to come onto Yahoo messenger, I guarantee, 100%, that I can prove to you that I can stop an athsma attack immediately by casting out that demon, or by making that demon stop causing those effects. I don't take the credit, but Jesus does it in His name, I just use His name/authority to do it. Demons have to obey a command given in Jesus' name. All I know is that every demon I've commanded in Jesus' name has done exactly what I said. Can't explain it...just know that's how it works...

LMGDAO!!! Cast out the demon? Are you an exorcist now? What a joke.

[DarkWolf]

My wife gets the flu. My friends get the flue. My parents get the flu. I have taken care of all of them while they have the flu, and yet I have never gotten it after I was born again. Got it plenty of times before I was saved, though, oddly enough. I haven't caught anything from anyone since I've been saved.

That's awesome and all that. I'll add my own anecdote. When I was young (birth to about 15 years), I never got sick. I was christian. Around the age of 15, in a fit of anger I denounced God, and christianity. Became athiest. Immediately fell into depression, and started getting sick. Colds, flu once, which turned into bronchitis which wouldn't relent even with medication. Started studying Wicca with a good friend of mine, and renounced my athiesm. Became a Wiccan. Depression went away. Bronchitis cleared up.

Fast forward a couple years, and I'm studying other religions. Eventually I decide that religion is not right for me. What may most closely describe me, is a theist with deist tendencies. Note, that's not atheist.

This is where I am today. I still don't get sick. My bronchitis used to crop up for a couple of days each year as a reminder, but it was only a minor discomfort, and something I accepted. It hasn't come back in the last 5 years. By christian standards, I am not saved. I've never been baptised (my family does not believe in baptising children, they feel it's better to let the child decide for themselves if it's something they want. It means more when it's the child's choice.), and yet... like you, I don't get sick. My parents both recently had colds. Coworkers had, and have colds currently. I haven't had so much as a runny nose. I get very little sleep at night (I've always been a night owl, average 3-4 hours of sleep), which the medical field pretty much unanimously attributes to various illnesses and disorders. Of which I have none. The last time I had to go to the doctor, was due to a severe sunburn (2nd degree burns) I got floating down the Guadalupe River a couple years ago, and I neglected to reapply sunscreen in the ~6ish hours I was out.

How does my experience jive with your "illness sin/demon" theory?

[AdamLX]

/crickets

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

I rarely get sick and have been atheist for as long as I can remember, even when I was forced to go to sunday school and didn't believe a word any of those people were saying but didn't know why... and I'm old :D

[Muffrazr]

MPD is all a theory to start with. IMO, MPD is the imagination running amuck. When someone is allowed to run around in their imagination without any type of personal boundaries or perceived boundaries set forth by a person's environment, then multiple facets of imagined reality will manifest themselves into outward personalities.

The notion that a personality could project into your own life and alter your perception of events will only get merit from someone that beleives imagination is a form of energy. I happen to have an idea that the energy that is projected in our speech can in some form continue on forever because energy is somewhat infinite. You may have heard a child's voice from long ago and when combined with your experience with an individual who doesn't know how to control all the voices inside her head you could feel overwhelmed with thoughts. You happen to organize them in a fashion that works within your own beleif system. Your wifes involvement could be explained in a similar fashion. Leftover energy formed a cloud of anti-matter which altered how light passed thru an area and your wife saw it. Wierder coincidences have happened.

There, that part has been rationally explained.

Panic attacks cause shortness of breath, that is a fact. The symptoms are very similar to an asthma attack. This is all medical fact.

[jw33]

Dude, you're crazy. Grow up

[jones4stangs]

MPD is all a theory to start with. IMO, MPD is the imagination running amuck. When someone is allowed to run around in their imagination without any type of personal boundaries or perceived boundaries set forth by a person's environment, then multiple facets of imagined reality will manifest themselves into outward personalities.

The notion that a personality could project into your own life and alter your perception of events will only get merit from someone that beleives imagination is a form of energy. I happen to have an idea that the energy that is projected in our speech can in some form continue on forever because energy is somewhat infinite. You may have heard a child's voice from long ago and when combined with your experience with an individual who doesn't know how to control all the voices inside her head you could feel overwhelmed with thoughts. You happen to organize them in a fashion that works within your own beleif system. Your wifes involvement could be explained in a similar fashion. Leftover energy formed a cloud of anti-matter which altered how light passed thru an area and your wife saw it. Wierder coincidences have happened.

There, that part has been rationally explained.

Panic attacks cause shortness of breath, that is a fact. The symptoms are very similar to an asthma attack. This is all medical fact.
I'm more likely to go with the demon stuff than this imagination, energy, and anti-matter pseudoscience stuff.

[EW]

I'm working with a person who has multiple personality disorder one day. She has 109 personalities. Some of her alters (alternate personalities) are Satanists (who do not like me, a Christian), because she was raised in a family of Satanists.

So, one night I go to bed, and my wife is sitting there with the light on in the bedroom (very out of character for her). I laid down and went to sleep. Just as I drifted off to sleep, I heard this little girl's voice chanting in a satanic language (which I've never heard before) and my entire body starts to shake. My wife sees me shaking and grabs me to wake me up. As I wake up, my legs and arms raise up off the bed and I come out of it.

My wife said, "I knew something was going to happen. That's why I left the light on." I asked how she knew something was going to happen. She said earlier that night when she came into the bedroom, she saw a demon sitting in the corner of the room. Not sure if she prayed for God to remove the demon or what, but she wanted to keep the light on afterwords. That's when she tells me for the first time that she can see demons (but only when necessary, as if God turns it on and off when needed).

Apparently, ever since she was possessed by a demon for three days when she was 5, she's been able to see demons. For instance, she said one time she walked into a Charismatic church and saw demons everywhere. I have another friend with the same ability and similar story.

The day after I was spiritually attacked, I go back to the multiple and revealed nothing except that I was attacked spiritually. I asked who did it. They said that a 9 year old child alter had cast the spell on me. I didn't tell them it was a little girl's voice I heard. They (the other alters) just knew who cast the spell and that it was a little girl alter, which confirmed that this was not something I just imagined.

Anyone care to explain that one away?
LOL

[72F100390bb]

do we have a real life healer on the board

[BrianC]

That's what I was thinking. I just figured this guy, of all people, would be the healthiest of them all.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/02/01/pope.health/index.html)

Mainly this...
The pope suffers from a number of chronic ailments, including Parkinson's disease. He has survived an assassination attempt and undergone nine operations -- including a hip replacement.

He must be one sinning guy do deserve all of that.

I'd say the pope definitely is not perfect. I'd say he believes in a lot of false doctrine too. Just my opinion...

[BrianC]

MPD is all a theory to start with. IMO, MPD is the imagination running amuck. When someone is allowed to run around in their imagination without any type of personal boundaries or perceived boundaries set forth by a person's environment, then multiple facets of imagined reality will manifest themselves into outward personalities.

The notion that a personality could project into your own life and alter your perception of events will only get merit from someone that beleives imagination is a form of energy. I happen to have an idea that the energy that is projected in our speech can in some form continue on forever because energy is somewhat infinite. You may have heard a child's voice from long ago and when combined with your experience with an individual who doesn't know how to control all the voices inside her head you could feel overwhelmed with thoughts. You happen to organize them in a fashion that works within your own beleif system. Your wifes involvement could be explained in a similar fashion. Leftover energy formed a cloud of anti-matter which altered how light passed thru an area and your wife saw it. Wierder coincidences have happened.

There, that part has been rationally explained.

Panic attacks cause shortness of breath, that is a fact. The symptoms are very similar to an asthma attack. This is all medical fact.

Actually, the book The Shining Man with Hurt Hands proves MPD is not a theory but is real, and proves these people's alternate personalities live in the spiritual world. My chat logs (which are online and cannot be modified, nor can their timestamps) back-up everything the book says as well.

So are you telling me that every multiple on the planet has conspired together and told each other that they're all going to see the same things in this world they see into and it's all made up? Nice try... But there's no way every multiple on the planet just HAPPENS to see the same things in this other world. Either this other world really exists, or well...there really is no other explanation as to why they all see the same things.

[BrianC]

do we have a real life healer on the board

I have absolutely no gift of healing. I never claimed this either. And casting a demon out not healing, it's just a result of it in certain cases.

[BrianC]

I'm more likely to go with the demon stuff than this imagination, energy, and anti-matter pseudoscience stuff.

Watch Paranormal State on A&E Monday. If you can, watch their first episode. It has a dead boy haunting this little kid, and the kid sees this dead boy and talks to him. The kid knows no history on the house they moved into at which he started seeing this dead boy. Yet the boy names this dead boy and picks him out in an old family picture from the family that used to live there. There's no way this kid could know this stuff, yet he knows a lot about this dead boy.

Now, the boy also says he sees evil spirits and that they're like black foggy/cloudy figures. That's exactly how my wife describes them when she sees them. Coincidence? Apparently, the people that do the investigating on Paranormal State confirmed that this kid's description of the demons (evil spirits) were consistent with what everyone else claims to see who says they see demons. My wife had heard nothing of this stuff when she started seeing these demons at the age of 5 years old. She lived in Taiwan as a missionary kid from birth to age 12, so I doubt she came across anything like "demons appearing like black cloud/fog." She actually said, if I remember correctly, that it looks like the demon/fog thing on Lost. I think reports of people seeing demons that look like this is where Lost got their model for their demon type thing that's on the show.

[BrianC]

I rarely get sick and have been atheist for as long as I can remember, even when I was forced to go to sunday school and didn't believe a word any of those people were saying but didn't know why... and I'm old :D

Atheist or not, it doesn't matter. There are two factors:

1. The sin you have in your life
2. How healthy you are

If you are a pretty healthy person, then it takes a lot longer for sin to break down your body. That's just the way the body works. If you don't have much sin in your life, you will not see much of an effect on your health.

[BrianC]

There, that part has been rationally explained.

No offense, but that's the most lame explanation I've seen for anything, and no...it explains nothing. You're just grasping for explanations here.

Try explaining how the prophecies I listed out in my other thread about prophetic fulfillment came to pass over thousands of years exactly as described and in exactly the right number of years with the exact start and finish as described.


Panic attacks cause shortness of breath, that is a fact. The symptoms are very similar to an asthma attack. This is all medical fact.

The girl I know has be diagnosed with athsma and has an inhailer, and has not been diagnosed with panic-attacks. She dropped the phone one day, and I could hear her across the room, but she could not hear me. I cast out the demon over the phone and apparently he heard me. Her attack stopped immediately, and she came and picked up the phone and was fine, but had no idea I had cast out the demon nor heard what I said over the phone. No placebo effect there. Demons have to hear or see written commands before they'll follow them.

[BrianC]

First of all, let’s recap. You've stated the following:

Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition.

No, I'm talking about the entire medical community now officially says that they can find NO physical cause for athsma, and that the only common factor in EVERY athsma patient is fear.

I've submitted two source that state otherwise from the American Lung Association and Merck & Co., Inc..

I asked for you to find a source to support your claims and you submitted the above from the Handbook of Psychology.

In short, the information from in the Handbook of Psychology, does not support your statements. In fact, it provides plenty of things that oppose your statements.

Nevertheless, thank you for the link. I read most of it and it contained some very good information.

Now to the meat of it:
The chapter begins by stating what they think causes astham.

Asthna and allergies co-occur frequently; allergies are a common trigger for an asthma exacerbation. About 60% of person with asthma are allergic; the development of asthma and allergies may occur early in childhood as a common outcome of immune system development. Some generic predisposition is probably necessary to develop asthma, but not all persons who are predisposed will develop asthma; family stress seems to be implicated in its development in childhood.

So, do they say fear causes asthma? No.

Now, why are they writing about asthma?

Asthma is a condition worthy of the attention and efforts of behavioral scientists: psychosocial variables may be implicated in the initiation, course and outcomes of asthma; psychological interventions have a role in the treatment of asthma as a complement to the use of medications.

I like the words they chose, "may be". Are they saying these psychosocial variables cause asthma? Nope. They go on to show that different psychosocial variable can kick off the mechanics that may lead to an asthma attack in a person who has asthma.

So, where does fear come into their discussion?

Other Psychological Variable and Their Associations with Self-Care and Medical Utilization.

Apart from the categories of psychiatric diagnoses, certain psychosocial characteristics have been reliably linked to nonoptimal self-care and medical utilization. We will examine two characteristics in terms of their associations with selfcare and medical utilization behaviors, the tendency to respond to asthma with panic-fear and social relationships.

High asthma-specific panic-fear is accompanied by more catastrophic cognitions, particulary among patients who also meet criteria for panic disorder, suggesting that cognitive interventions are indicated for patients with co-morbid asthama and panic disorder.

This does not deal with what causes asthma, but rather how someone who is experiencing an asthma attack may become scared. In simple terms, when your having an asthma attack you can't breath right. This is certainly a call for serious concern, but some people strait freak out. Try are calling this panic, due to the onset of an asthma attack "asthma-specific panic-fear".

So, what conclusions are drawn in this piece?

Our review of the associations of asthma with stress or emotions suggested that few general statements can be made across persons: Stress or emotions are associated with pulmonary function among some but not all persons with asthma, and furthermore, emotions associated with asthma may vary from person to person. Despite the methodological challenges inherent in this area of research, an appropriate conclusion appears to be that stress or certain emotions are salient covariates of pulmonary function for some persons and that this association should be determined on a personal, or idiographic, basis.

Not only is fear not one of their causes. They say stress and emotions only play a part how people with asthma should be treated.

Concerning your example of the girl; I’m not one to knock a person’s experience. However, it is worth noting, that medication is not necessary to stop the onset of an asthma attack. Often, if the person can calm down they can return to regular respiratory function without medicine. This ability is addressed in this book and a good reason why they think psychology should be part of asthma research.

Then there is also this element that is worthy of consideration:

An asthma attack may be characterized by hypercapnia (excessive carbon dioxide) and hypoxia (lack of oxygen), which may partially account for the high prevalence of anxiety disorders among persons with asthma.


Would you care to try to provide another source to support your statement?

Alright, I'm told that the Merck Medical Journal (or a the Merck Journal documenting Pyschologically caused diseases) has over 3000 pages of documented diseases caused by psychological issues, and athsma is said to be caused by fear in that manual. I cannot link to it on the net, because it's a published work that they don't seem to put online. I tried finding Merck Manuals online, but they are different and don't even list Athsma at all for some reason. The book I'm referring to, if I remember correctly, is a little blue or green book that's extremely thick. You're welcome to go buy it or find it in a college campus book store and look up athsma.

And the recent consensus about athsma being solely caused by fear is very new and I have no idea where I would find that. I heard it in a seminar about a month ago, and that's all I have to go on. Sorry I couldn't provide more info on this. I kind of hate linking to stuff on the internet because you can find just about anything on the net and a lot of it's crap. I like actual publications that are reputible, if possible, but they're not always easy to find, and no one seems to want to look them up.

[Pennywise]

God is an imaginary friend for adults.

[exlude]

This whole thread is getting out of hand with the amount of misinformation being thrown about. Read and understand what Merck, or any of the diagnostic tools, say about Asthma first hand. It's a much better source than "someone telling you what Merck says".

Just as an aside, I'm pretty much the opposite of you Brian. I grew up first in a rather unreligious house, then moderately religious, then in HS I decided I was atheist. Anyway, the sickest stint of my life was the "moderately religious" part.

I don't really think there is any correlation there, nor is it my opinion there is any correlation with you. It is interesting the habits you pick up as you get older that make you healthier, however. Part of that old survival instinct.

[DarkWolf]

Try explaining how the prophecies I listed out in my other thread about prophetic fulfillment came to pass over thousands of years exactly as described and in exactly the right number of years with the exact start and finish as described.

I've already done that.

I like actual publications that are reputible, if possible, but they're not always easy to find, and no one seems to want to look them up.

Methinks the burden of proof rests solely on your shoulders. You're the one claiming Asthma is caused by fear. We've debunked that a number of times in this thread, but you keep coming back saying we're wrong "it's really new information!!!1", and you have NOTHING to back up your statement.

We're waiting.

[Osiris]

Anybody else think BrianC's claims are a little extreme? Floating in bed? A crazy chick seeing demons? (well, possible if someone is hallucinating, or has a really good imagination)

Asthma is linked to demons, and people who sin. Just ask my 3 year old sister. She's evil!

[donnie90stang]

WOW.............. oh and i think brian c is on the pipe!!!

[BrianC]

Anybody else think BrianC's claims are a little extreme? Floating in bed? A crazy chick seeing demons? (well, possible if someone is hallucinating, or has a really good imagination)

Asthma is linked to demons, and people who sin. Just ask my 3 year old sister. She's evil!

Never said I floated in bed. I said my limbs started to come off of the bed. No floating. Nothing broke the laws of physics.

And I didn't say that sinners have athsma. I said that the Bible says in the Law that if you obey God, He'll blessing you with all blessings, and if you disobey (go against God willingly) you will be cursed with every disease. And, it says that sin is passed down through the father, and it says that there are generational curses, which means that a sin will pass down from generation to generation unless someone gets rid of it before they have children so they don't pass it down again. I'm not saying anything the Jews didn't know 2000+ years ago. It was common knowledge to them.

With athsma in kids, it's a sin passed down from the father. The father may not always have athsma, but he has some aspect of major fear in his life somewhere. Or, the child that has athsma had a horrific event in their life that scared them horribly, and this spirit of fear came in and caused athsmatic symptoms.

I can offer up one more possibility to someone with athsma. Either, you have it and you get on messenger with me and I'll stop an attack, or...if you want...I can attempt to start an attack just by commanding the demon to cause the attack. Now, I'm not certain this will work, though, because I've never tried that before. Stopping an attack, yes...that's not a problem. Starting one, I'm not sure if that's possible. All I can do is try. But, you never know...it may work. I think athsma attacks are prompted by the person's fear, not the demon just choosing to bring one on. Therefore, I'm not so sure I could actually pull this one off. I'd be willing to try, though. Any takers?

[BrianC]

I've already done that.



Methinks the burden of proof rests solely on your shoulders. You're the one claiming Asthma is caused by fear. We've debunked that a number of times in this thread, but you keep coming back saying we're wrong "it's really new information!!!1", and you have NOTHING to back up your statement.

We're waiting.
I told you... the Merck Medical Journal has 3,000 pages of diseases caused by psychological problems. It is not a publication you can find on the net, but must be purchased in book form. It says that athsma is attributed to fear. Just heard it in a seminar about a month ago and saw the manual too. It was a small, but thick, blue book.

As for the prophecies, you gave ABSOLUTELY NO way that these prophecies could've come true. If you did, then let's go over it again, because you've given nothing that could even come close to an explanation.

[BrianC]

This whole thread is getting out of hand with the amount of misinformation being thrown about. Read and understand what Merck, or any of the diagnostic tools, say about Asthma first hand. It's a much better source than "someone telling you what Merck says".

Just as an aside, I'm pretty much the opposite of you Brian. I grew up first in a rather unreligious house, then moderately religious, then in HS I decided I was atheist. Anyway, the sickest stint of my life was the "moderately religious" part.

I don't really think there is any correlation there, nor is it my opinion there is any correlation with you. It is interesting the habits you pick up as you get older that make you healthier, however. Part of that old survival instinct.

Everyone has a different experience. You have yours, I have mine. Doesn't really say anything about who's right or wrong, though, in this case.

As for the Merck Medical Journal, if I'm not mistaken, they had the medical journal page scanned in so everyone could see it. They even showed what stress (which is a pyschological problem) does to the immune system. It actually causes the body to produce cortisol, which causes the interluken cells not to flag enemy cells. It does this three times, causing these enemy cells (cancer cells) to get past the immune system so it doesn't see them as enemy cells. Therefore, the body doesn't attack these cells, which allows the cancer cells to grow. All of that is due to stress and its causing cortisol production.

Check out a doctor named Dr. Coldwell, a german specialist in stress reduction. He has treated over 3,500 cancer patients and has the highest rate of curing cancer in Germany of any doctor. All he does is teach the people how to reduce stress. This causes the body's pH to go from acidic to alkaline, which inturn causes the body to kill and flush out the cancer. There is one thing common in all cancer patients: acidic pH in the body. Cancer must have an acidic pH environment to grow. You eliminate that, and cancer dies and flushes out of the body. So, the mind is a powerful thing and can really effect the body heavily. No one denies that stress has a huge effect on the body. So why is fear (which is associated with worry and stress) causing things like athsma any different than stress being the major cause of cancer and other major problems in the body?

[BrianC]

God is an imaginary friend for adults.

Then their imaginary friend predicted 13 very specific numerical prophecies would come true over a 2700 year period, and they did, exactly as they were prophesied to happen. The last one or two came true in 1967AD. If that imaginary friend can predict the future over a 2700 year period, then I think I'd like to have Him as my imaginary friend.

[Pennywise]

Then their imaginary friend predicted 13 very specific numerical prophecies would come true over a 2700 year period, and they did, exactly as they were prophecied to happen. The last one or two came true in 1967AD. If that imaginary friend can predict the future over a 2700 year period, then I think I'd like to have Him as my imaginary friend.




Sports announcers predict the future every week. Are they gods? I mean, even the worst ones can do better than 13 VERY SPECIFIC predictions over a period of 2700 years.. And exactly what are these 13 VERY SPECIFIC predictions you speak of? Does the bible say that on 9/11/2001 some crazy arab assholes are going to crash a plane into a building? Didn't think so moron. Save this type of bullshit for your eventual koolaide party and you'll have fullfilled one of my own personal prophecies: You're too stupid to go on living for much longer.

[Osiris]

Never said I floated in bed. I said my limbs started to come off of the bed. No floating. Nothing broke the laws of physics.

And I didn't say that sinners have athsma. I said that the Bible says in the Law that if you obey God, He'll blessing you with all blessings, and if you disobey (go against God willingly) you will be cursed with every disease. And, it says that sin is passed down through the father, and it says that there are generational curses, which means that a sin will pass down from generation to generation unless someone gets rid of it before they have children so they don't pass it down again. I'm not saying anything the Jews didn't know 2000+ years ago. It was common knowledge to them.

With athsma in kids, it's a sin passed down from the father. The father may not always have athsma, but he has some aspect of major fear in his life somewhere. Or, the child that has athsma had a horrific event in their life that scared them horribly, and this spirit of fear came in and caused athsmatic symptoms.

I can offer up one more possibility to someone with athsma. Either, you have it and you get on messenger with me and I'll stop an attack, or...if you want...I can attempt to start an attack just by commanding the demon to cause the attack. Now, I'm not certain this will work, though, because I've never tried that before. Stopping an attack, yes...that's not a problem. Starting one, I'm not sure if that's possible. All I can do is try. But, you never know...it may work. I think athsma attacks are prompted by the person's fear, not the demon just choosing to bring one on. Therefore, I'm not so sure I could actually pull this one off. I'd be willing to try, though. Any takers?

Yeah, you're a little on the fanatical side, eh?

[BrianC]

Sports announcers predict the future every week. Are they gods? I mean, even the worst ones can do better than 13 VERY SPECIFIC predictions over a period of 2700 years.. And exactly what are these 13 VERY SPECIFIC predictions you speak of? Does the bible say that on 9/11/2001 some crazy arab assholes are going to crash a plane into a building? Didn't think so moron. Save this type of bullshit for your eventual koolaide party and you'll have fullfilled one of my own personal prophecies: You're too stupid to go on living for much longer.

Oh really? If you had read anything about the few prophecies I did mention on here, you'd see that these prophecies are very specific and they are impossible for someone to predict of their own knowledge. For instance, there are three prophecies that give the beginning and end point for the prophecy, and a period of 2500 years for their fulfillment to come to pass. One about 10 tribes of Israel, one about Judah, and one about the temple mount. All start, end and have exactly 2500 years in between the start and end. And these are full nations of people that are being predicted about.

So, could sports announcers predict 2500 years in advance that the Jews will become a nation in exactly 2500 years and then 18 years later predict that 2500 years from that year, they Jews will take back the temple mount? Hmmmmm... the quick and logical answer is NO! Also, we have prophecies spanning 1271, 1278 and 1260 years. All of which it is impossible for a man to predict the outcome of wars and nations and who will rule what country and what structures will be built where. The Bible even predicted exactly which nations would rule the Jews, in order, and in the exact about of years they would rule total. I have posted 5 or 6 of these prophecies in these threads, yet you mysteriously have not read them. Hmmmmm... maybe you need to buy some stronger perscription glasses so you don't miss so much.

[BrianC]

Yeah, you're a little on the fanatical side, eh?

Then you're saying that all Jews are a "little on the fanatical side." To my knowledge, no one even calls the Jews fanatical. Just very devout religious people. Their law says these things, so you'd have to call them all fanatical.

Oh, and while you're at it, you'd have to call all Christians fanatics, because they believe the Bible is the infallible word of God, and the Bible says in Deuteronomy in the Law that if you go against God, you will be cursed with every disease, and the Jews later said to Jesus, "Who sinned, this man's mother or father that caused him to be blind from birth?" And half of the time, Jesus says, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more," and the people are healed. The Bible teaches that sin is responsible for most disease and sickness. Christians just don't realize that it says that. But either way, they believe the Bible is the Word of God, and therefore, by your standards, they are fanatical. Only Christians who DON'T believe in the Bible would be classified as not fanatical by your standards. Nice standard you have there...

[flashstang04]

Then you're saying that all Jews are a "little on the fanatical side." To my knowledge, no one even calls the Jews fanatical. Just very devout religious people. Their law says these things, so you'd have to call them all fanatical.

Oh, and while you're at it, you'd have to call all Christians fanatics, because they believe the Bible is the infallible word of God, and the Bible says in Deuteronomy in the Law that if you go against God, you will be cursed with every disease, and the Jews later said to Jesus, "Who sinned, this man's mother or father that caused him to be blind from birth?" And half of the time, Jesus says, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more," and the people are healed. The Bible teaches that sin is responsible for most disease and sickness. Christians just don't realize that it says that. But either way, they believe the Bible is the Word of God, and therefore, by your standards, they are fanatical. Only Christians who DON'T believe in the Bible would be classified as not fanatical by your standards. Nice standard you have there...


Well said Brian

[Pennywise]

Oh really? If you had read anything about the few prophecies I did mention on here, you'd see that these prophecies are very specific and they are impossible for someone to predict of their own knowledge. For instance, there are three prophecies that give the beginning and end point for the prophecy, and a period of 2500 years for their fulfillment to come to pass. One about 10 tribes of Israel, one about Judah, and one about the temple mount. All start, end and have exactly 2500 years in between the start and end. And these are full nations of people that are being predicted about.

So, could sports announcers predict 2500 years in advance that the Jews will become a nation in exactly 2500 years and then 18 years later predict that 2500 years from that year, they Jews will take back the temple mount? Hmmmmm... the quick and logical answer is NO! Also, we have prophecies spanning 1271, 1278 and 1260 years. All of which it is impossible for a man to predict the outcome of wars and nations and who will rule what country and what structures will be built where. The Bible even predicted exactly which nations would rule the Jews, in order, and in the exact about of years they would rule total. I have posted 5 or 6 of these prophecies in these threads, yet you mysteriously have not read them. Hmmmmm... maybe you need to buy some stronger perscription glasses so you don't miss so much.


Usually I tend to stray away from the stark raving religious lunitics out there, but this thread amused me so much I couldn't help but repsond to it. Therefore, don't assume I've ever read any of your other imaginative ramblings before this one. Please quote god saying anything you've have just laid out. Can't wait.

[Pennywise]

But either way, they believe the Bible is the Word of God, and therefore, by your standards, they are fanatical. Only Christians who DON'T believe in the Bible would be classified as not fanatical by your standards. Nice standard you have there...


Then they wouldn't be christians. Instead of fanatical, I'd just call that having common sense.

[DarkWolf]

I told you... the Merck Medical Journal has 3,000 pages of diseases caused by psychological problems. It is not a publication you can find on the net, but must be purchased in book form. It says that athsma is attributed to fear. Just heard it in a seminar about a month ago and saw the manual too. It was a small, but thick, blue book.

Go find it, get the exact book name, publishing information, page(s) that you find this suggestion that fear causes asthma, and I will then go and get the physical book to confirm it. There's a metric fuck-ton of thick blue books out there pertaining to the medical industry. Provide specifics.

Until then, you're full of bullshit. And I'm quite confident you won't risk being exposed for the fraud that you are, by actually posting any useful information to track down this fictional book.

As for the prophecies, you gave ABSOLUTELY NO way that these prophecies could've come true. If you did, then let's go over it again, because you've given nothing that could even come close to an explanation.

Oh yes, I did. You just conveniently ignored it, because you saw how unquestionably it debunked your "days = years" or "at time = 1000 years" theories, by using the exact same passages you got your "prophecies" from, from the same version of the bible even.

Oh, but you're right, I gave no way they could've come true, because I'm convinced they didn't, or they are covered within the span of the bible, which is just convenient, and in no way indicative of actual prophecy. I just showed how biblical scholars apply arbitrary lengths of time to "prophecies", in order to get them to fit current and past world events.

[DarkWolf]

I have posted 5 or 6 of these prophecies in these threads, yet you mysteriously have not read them. Hmmmmm...

And I've shown how arbitrarily lengths of time are assigned to these "prophecies", yet you mysteriously have not read them. Hmmmmm...

[exlude]

There is no doubt in my mind that fear can cause an asthma attack to get worse, it is also plausible that it may cause an asthma attack (but more likely, a panic attack which can have very similar symptoms). But the idea that the sole cause of asthma is fear is a bit silly.

[BrianC]

Go find it, get the exact book name, publishing information, page(s) that you find this suggestion that fear causes asthma, and I will then go and get the physical book to confirm it. There's a metric fuck-ton of thick blue books out there pertaining to the medical industry. Provide specifics.

Until then, you're full of bullshit. And I'm quite confident you won't risk being exposed for the fraud that you are, by actually posting any useful information to track down this fictional book.

Ok, now you're just completely straying into the realm of ignorance and spouting completely unfounded comments.

I gave you the name of this book. It is the MERCK MEDICAL JOURNAL. Go get it and look up Athsma. It's not a fictional book. I gave you the name, that's all you need to find it and look up Athsma.


Oh yes, I did. You just conveniently ignored it, because you saw how unquestionably it debunked your "days = years" or "at time = 1000 years" theories, by using the exact same passages you got your "prophecies" from, from the same version of the bible even.

Oh, but you're right, I gave no way they could've come true, because I'm convinced they didn't, or they are covered within the span of the bible, which is just convenient, and in no way indicative of actual prophecy. I just showed how biblical scholars apply arbitrary lengths of time to "prophecies", in order to get them to fit current and past world events.

You just completely lied, and showed that you probably didn't even read most of the prophecies I laid out. You said, "Or they are covered within the span of the Bible," which is completely incorrect. All of the prophecies I listed go FAR PAST the time the Bible was written and completed in 95-105AD. We have one prophecy that starts in 583BC and ends in 688AD (500+ years past the last writings in the Bible). The second prophecy starts in 688AD and ends in 1967AD (that doesn't even START in Bible times). The third prophecy starts in 724BC and goes 2500 years to 1776AD, and the fourth starts in 552BC and goes 2500 years to 1948AD, and the fifth starts in 533BC and goes 2500 years to 1967. NONE of these prophecies are fulfilled in Bible times. Not one!

On top of that, no one could predict these prophecies in advance in such detail. They are very specific as to the starting point, the end point and the exact amount of years that will pass between those dates.

Also, we see that there are three prophecies given that are 2500 years each. All start and end exactly on the dates they are said to have started on and should end on with the events as described. NO ONE changed ANY time periods in the Bible text to meet their needs for these prophecies to be fulfilled. The King James Version was written in 1611AD, 1500 years after the last book of the Bible, and 160+ years before the 1776AD prophecy was fulfilled, and 300+ years before the 1948 and 1967 prophecies were fulfilled, which means no one could've known those fulfillments in order to change the amount of time in these prophecies. It is only the 2500 year prophecies where the amount of time was misunderstood, and all it takes is properly translating the word Hemera in the Greek to understand this prophecy. No one CHANGED anything. As for the 1290 day prophecy, that simply was converted from Hebrew to solar years. No one changed anything! Concerning the 42 months of years and the 1260 years in Revelation, those were given in solar years, and therefore do not need to be converted at all. And sure enough, they come out exactly to the dates and events they're supposed to come out to.

You gave ABSOLUTELY no proof of any of the unfounded claims you made. There was no changing of ANYTHING in those prophecies in the Bible. No interpretations out of context or anything of the sort. Sorry, but clearly you are completely irrational and you are going against all statistical probabilities in your irrational state of mind (aka - pride that will not give in to defeat by another). I will prove every single one of those prophecies came true to the year and event just as prophesied. Say the word and I'll do it. If you don't want me to, then you are afraid you will be owned in this debate. But please, I'm begging you, ASK ME to prove this. We'll go one by one, and not one of them will you be able to disprove. Not a single one. They are statistical impossibilities as coincidences, and must be the work of an Almighty God. Period. Atheists HATE these prophecies with a passion, because they are irrefutable and give proof of God. Take a stab at it, though...let's see what ya' got!

[BrianC]

And I've shown how arbitrarily lengths of time are assigned to these "prophecies", yet you mysteriously have not read them. Hmmmmm...

I've read all of the prophecies, and quoted them here. In my statement, I said YOU have no read them. Not me. Have you been hitting the crack rock a bit much tonight?

[BrianC]

There is no doubt in my mind that fear can cause an asthma attack to get worse, it is also plausible that it may cause an asthma attack (but more likely, a panic attack which can have very similar symptoms). But the idea that the sole cause of asthma is fear is a bit silly.

Tell that to Merck and psychologists. They think it's a competely rational explanation due to how powerful the mind is in effecting the body. Haven't you seen what shock does to people? Shock can kill a perfectly healthy person. Shock is from fear. If fear can do something as powerful as kill a person, I think it can also cause a person to have an athsma attack. Stress (also completely in the mind) causes MANY health issues, and no doctor refutes that truth. And the reduction of stress has been shown to cause cancer to be flushed out of the body. That's all in the mind. The mind is extremely powerful, and I think you all are just pushing it to the side for some strange reason. This is not revolutionary stuff.

[exlude]

Tell that to Merck and psychologists. They think it's a competely rational explanation due to how powerful the mind is in effecting the body. Haven't you seen what shock does to people? Shock can kill a perfectly healthy person. Shock is from fear. If fear can do something as powerful as kill a person, I think it can also cause a person to have an athsma attack. Stress (also completely in the mind) causes MANY health issues, and no doctor refutes that truth. And the reduction of stress has been shown to cause cancer to be flushed out of the body. That's all in the mind. The mind is extremely powerful, and I think you all are just pushing it to the side for some strange reason. This is not revolutionary stuff.

You should reread what you quoted, I never said that I thought fear could not, on it's own, cause asthma. I said that the idea of it being the sole cause (and not allergens, antigens, exercise, etc.) is a bit silly.

it is also plausible that [fear] may cause an asthma attack

[TexasStreetCars.com]

I am not sure why you guys are giving this guy such a hard time for his beliefs. I think the Islamic religion makes no sense at all but I don't think attacking them personally or calling them wackos or morons is in order...

I for one have never seen anything that would be considered from another realm (ghosts/spirits/aliens/demons/angels, etc.) but to me that gives no proof of their nonexistence.

A very good, very non-crazy friend of mine went to some third world country 2 years ago (forgive me for not remembering which country it was, it was very small and obscure, so I don't remember the name) and he told me about some things that he encountered when he got back. He wasn't much of a believer in seeing demons and such, but he said they had a bonfire in the middle of a very satanic region and he specifically saw faces and demons in the smoke and flames, and even took some pictures.

I was skeptical, but he assured me that this was like nothing he had seen before, and to me this guy's word is as good as gold.

My .02 on this. :D

[DarkWolf]

Ok, now you're just completely straying into the realm of ignorance and spouting completely unfounded comments.

I gave you the name of this book. It is the MERCK MEDICAL JOURNAL. Go get it and look up Athsma. It's not a fictional book. I gave you the name, that's all you need to find it and look up Athsma.

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/index.html
http://www.mercksource.com/

Neither lists fear as a cause of Asthma. Now, seriously, are you naive enough to think a printed book is going to be more up-to-date than THEIR OWN WEBSITE, which publishes the entire manuals online?

But, back to my challenge. Give me the information on the exact book you claim to have seen this in. Name. Publishing date. Catalog number. Page that this fantasy appears on.

Wall of text about the same goddamn "prophecies" over and over and over again.

I'm sure if you pay attention to your bible, you'll see that repeating the same thing over and over again is a pagan ritual. For serious. Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it happen.

I told you, I already disproved these prophecies. I'm not going to keep repeating it for you. If you choose to ignore it, fine, but in doing so you need to give up this line, because it ain't working.

I've read all of the prophecies, and quoted them here. In my statement, I said YOU have no read them. Not me. Have you been hitting the crack rock a bit much tonight?

Wow, way to go. I wasn't talking about the "prophecies". Try again.

[BrianC]

You should reread what you quoted, I never said that I thought fear could not, on it's own, cause asthma. I said that the idea of it being the sole cause (and not allergens, antigens, exercise, etc.) is a bit silly.

Causing athsma and causing athsma attacks are two different things. You don't believe Athsma can be caused by fear, but you acknowledge that fear may cause an attack. I'm just saying that Merck disagrees with you, and they have a bit more experience. And attack came come strictly from fear, and is not a panic attack, nor is it confused with one by the people doing this research...

[BrianC]

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/index.html
http://www.mercksource.com/

Neither lists fear as a cause of Asthma. Now, seriously, are you naive enough to think a printed book is going to be more up-to-date than THEIR OWN WEBSITE, which publishes the entire manuals online?

But, back to my challenge. Give me the information on the exact book you claim to have seen this in. Name. Publishing date. Catalog number. Page that this fantasy appears on.

No, this online manual you found is not at all the same thing as the Merck Medical Journal. It's a completely different publication with a different use than this online manual you are referencing. I'll say this for the fourth time...the book is called THE MERCK MEDICAL JOURNAL. Find it and look up asthma. (can't believe I've been spelling it incorrectly this whole time...real smart...)


I'm sure if you pay attention to your bible, you'll see that repeating the same thing over and over again is a pagan ritual. For serious. Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it happen.

I told you, I already disproved these prophecies. I'm not going to keep repeating it for you. If you choose to ignore it, fine, but in doing so you need to give up this line, because it ain't working.


I repeat my question because you did ABSOLUTELY no such thing as disproving thes prophecies. You didn't even come close, and you didn't even address them specifically, and you even made claims about the prophecies that were completely untrue and inaccurate. You haven't proved a thing. And you should take your own advice: repeating that you've disproved them won't make it true. So, by all means, take your best shot and try to disprove the prophecies one by one and I guaranty you'll come out looking like a complete fool in the process.


Wow, way to go. I wasn't talking about the "prophecies". Try again.
What? You just referenced the prophecies, yet you weren't taking about them? Make up your mind, please...

[BrianC]

http://www.natural-healing-coach.com/natural_healing_asthma.shtml

Now, personally, I think the people on this website are a bit "out there" with their spiritual beliefs and they've brought it into their healing methods. The claim it works, and I can see how it would work, only because they're using a method where you tap accupuncture points on your body that releases fluids in the brain and causes electrical meridians in the body to open up so that the electricity flows through them like it's supposed to, and in doing so, releives fear, and the attack subsides. They identify fear as the root cause. Like I said, they're a bit out there, but this is a website where they attribute fear to the cause. I'll have to find a better site, though, because this one's a bit weird. These people could be Scientologist for all I know...

Here's another site:
http://business.fortunecity.com/turn/867/anxiety.html

These people seem a little bit more rational, but it's still not the medical industry's own quotes. You'll need the Merck Medical Journal for that. These people claim they've cured asthma in many many patient by reducing anxiety drastically. Anxiety is basically severe fear. They have tons of success, apparently, but you'd have to take their word for that, unfortunately. They make false claims that fear is a normal human emotion that cannot be gotten rid of completely. That is not true.

I know people who literally do not fear even in horrific situations. They have simply come to grips with the fact that if they die, the next thing they'll see is God, so there's absolutely no fear of death and so they don't fear any situation, because they're actually excited about death since the reward is God. They don't want to kill themselves, but when death comes, they'll be more than ok with it. But while they're here, they're going to do as much for the Lord as they can. You can eliminate fear. I've eliminated tons of fear in my own life over the years and my goal is to eliminate all fear from my life eventually. It'll take years though, I'm sure... Actually, you can just trust in God to completely protect you and have no fear.

Read some of the events in the Bible with the prophets. Like Elijah, for instance, had a huge army of men come up on his house to kill him. He walks right out to them and welcomes them, and they don't recognize him. He walks them to town, has the king feed them, then sends them on their way back home. They didn't know they were talking to the man they were supposed to kill the entire time. God does interesting things to protect His people. And He tells us "Do not fear, for I am with you." Anyway... this website is wrong about the elimination of fear. But regardless, they claim elimination of anxiety gets rid of asthma altogether.

This website claims fear can cause asthsma in a child (not an attack, but asthma):
http://www.allergyasthmazone.com/category/childhood-asthma/

[exlude]

Causing athsma and causing athsma attacks are two different things. You don't believe Athsma can be caused by fear, but you acknowledge that fear may cause an attack. I'm just saying that Merck disagrees with you, and they have a bit more experience. And attack came come strictly from fear, and is not a panic attack, nor is it confused with one by the people doing this research...

God damn you love your word games. Nevertheless, I'm still saying that fear is not the sole cause of asthma or asthma attacks. Merck does not disagree with that. You do.

Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition.

Just a thought, maybe the reason you couldn't find asthma in Merck earlier is because you are spelling it athsma.

[BrianC]

God damn you love your word games. Nevertheless, I'm still saying that fear is not the sole cause of asthma or asthma attacks. Merck does not disagree with that. You do.



Just a thought, maybe the reason you couldn't find asthma in Merck earlier is because you are spelling it athsma.

Yeah, I just said in an earlier post that I was spelling it incorrectly and that's why I couldn't find it.

And once again, you are not looking at the Merck Medical Journal. It lists 3,000 diseases or conditions caused by psychological problems. Get that Merck publication and yes, they do agree with me. Their Medical Journal is where I got that from in the first place.

[exlude]

Yeah, I just said in an earlier post that I was spelling it incorrectly and that's why I couldn't find it.

And once again, you are not looking at the Merck Medical Journal. It lists 3,000 diseases or conditions caused by psychological problems. Get that Merck publication and yes, they do agree with me. Their Medical Journal is where I got that from in the first place.

I'm looking at it right now. Under causes, it first describes the specific cell level recepter hypersensitivity and the mast cell role. It then talks about the plausibility of modern vaccination methods causing this. It mentions allergens, specific antigens, exercise, stress and fear all as causes. Never does it say,

Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition.

You're fairly alone on that one.

You need to come to terms with the difference between "fear can cause asthma" and "fear is the only cause of asthma". First one is true, second one isn't. First one is what Merck says, second one is what you said.

[BrianC]

I'm looking at it right now. Under causes, it first describes the specific cell level recepter hypersensitivity and the mast cell role. It then talks about the plausibility of modern vaccination methods causing this. It mentions allergens, specific antigens, exercise, stress and fear all as causes. Never does it say,


No, you are NOT looking at the Merck Medical Journal I spoke of. You do not have the blue book in your hands right now. You are looking at an online Merck Index, which is very different, and it does not have a section that lists all of the diseases caused by psychological issues. Period. Until you have that book in your hands, you do not have what I am referring to. And now, Merck will not have this on their online medical index. This is something completely different than that index.

[BrianC]

You need to come to terms with the difference between "fear can cause asthma" and "fear is the only cause of asthma". First one is true, second one isn't. First one is what Merck says, second one is what you said.

Please explain to me how I can cast out a demon of fear, and an asthma attack stops immediately, right after it started? And I'm not saying that the attack slowly subsides. I'm saying that the person suddenly takes a huge deep breath of air and they're fine.

Keep in mind that I did this when the phone had fallen on the floor, the person was across the room having an attack, and they could not even hear me cast out the demon, because I did it in a fairly quiet voice, and they said they heard nothing. In other words, no placebo effect (mind over matter type thing). Please explain this. I don't just make this stuff up... And if I did, I wouldn't offer for someone with an asthma problem to come onto Yahoo Messenger and allow me to stop an attack. Would this make sense if I were lying? No, not at all. Because I asked someone whom I thought said they had asthma, but as it turns out, they outgrew it and only their son has it now.

Find me someone with asthma that can have an attack and let me talk to them on Yahoo Messenger. I guarantee I can stop an attack immediately. I would not make the claim if I were not fully confident that I can do it, and have done it in the past many times. I'm not that stupid.

[exlude]

You're right. I don't go to UT, I don't study human diseases, I don't have access to a Merck, none of the above. Nevermind you don't actually refute the points, you simply tell me I'm not looking at a Merck. I guess, technically, you are correct as when you posted, 2 hours later, I am no longer actually looking at the Merck. It's considered a reference :(

You still fail to realize that because asthma is a disease caused by psychological issues, said psychological issues are NOT the only causes of asthma. Much like meningitis is a disease caused by viruses. However, it's not a disease causted only by viruses, as bacteria and prions can cause meningitis of their own.

[exlude]

Please explain to me how I can cast out a demon of fear, and an asthma attack stops immediately, right after it started? And I'm not saying that the attack slowly subsides. I'm saying that the person suddenly takes a huge deep breath of air and they're fine.

Keep in mind that I did this when the phone had fallen on the floor, the person was across the room having an attack, and they could not even hear me cast out the demon, because I did it in a fairly quiet voice, and they said they heard nothing. In other words, no placebo effect (mind over matter type thing). Please explain this. I don't just make this stuff up... And if I did, I wouldn't offer for someone with an asthma problem to come onto Yahoo Messenger and allow me to stop an attack. Would this make sense if I were lying? No, not at all. Because I asked someone whom I thought said they had asthma, but as it turns out, they outgrew it and only their son has it now.

Find me someone with asthma that can have an attack and let me talk to them on Yahoo Messenger. I guarantee I can stop an attack immediately. I would not make the claim if I were not fully confident that I can do it, and have done it in the past many times. I'm not that stupid.

Your results are easy to explain: 0 evidence and a test that won't be repeated, because you know damn well that no one is going to come to you in the middle of an acute attack instead of going to the hospital.

Even so, your exorcising explanation doesn't make sense due to the actual, physical, biological processes involved in an asthma attack. Even when someone takes a steroid inhaler, it doesn't immediately stop the attack. Mast cells are being degraded, introducing particles that cause the bronchial constrictuion. These don't just magically disappear, instantly.

But that's all an aside, I don't come to debate these "atheist explain this" threads as almost 100% of the time it's a lack of critical thinking on the OP's part. I was just passively reading until the amount of BS hit critical mass.

[AdamLX]

I gave up when BrianC correlated that the Pope was more of a sinner than himself.

That is all.

[Muffrazr]

Actually, the book The Shining Man with Hurt Hands proves MPD is not a theory but is real, and proves these people's alternate personalities live in the spiritual world. My chat logs (which are online and cannot be modified, nor can their timestamps) back-up everything the book says as well.

So are you telling me that every multiple on the planet has conspired together and told each other that they're all going to see the same things in this world they see into and it's all made up? Nice try... But there's no way every multiple on the planet just HAPPENS to see the same things in this other world. Either this other world really exists, or well...there really is no other explanation as to why they all see the same things.


I never said you were wrong or anything. I just gave an explanation, which is what you asked for. I didn't expect to sway your views either, as I know that you have a strong religious beleif system. I am not an atheist, agnostic, or any other label. I have my beleifs and some agree with yours, and others debate with yours.

As far as conspiring, I wouldn't go that far. I would venture to say that some of the many MPD cases could be easier to find some sort of outside influence for similar stories than others.

I look at MPD as an imaginary issue because all of us have voices in our head. Some people intentionally change the sound of the voice in order to think out different scenarios. I do. This is where I came up with the imagination run amuck theory.

[TexasStreetCars.com]

I gave up when BrianC correlated that the Pope was more of a sinner than himself.

That is all.

I think I am a pretty bad person but I am inclined to believe I am a better person than the pope. No hard facts or proof, that's just my theory :D

[DarkWolf]

No, this online manual you found is not at all the same thing as the Merck Medical Journal. It's a completely different publication with a different use than this online manual you are referencing. I'll say this for the fourth time...the book is called THE MERCK MEDICAL JOURNAL. Find it and look up asthma. (can't believe I've been spelling it incorrectly this whole time...real smart...)

From the first site I linked:

Merck is committed to bringing out the best in medicine. As part of that effort, Merck has created The Merck Manuals, a series of healthcare books for medical professionals and consumers. As a service to the community, the content of The Manuals is now available in enhanced online versions as part of The Merck Manuals Online Medical Library. The Online Medical Library is updated periodically with new information, and contains photographs, and audio and video material not present in the print versions.

Looks like the real deal to me. But I'm sure it's more convenient for you to deny it, because you know they don't list fear as the cause of asthma. You keep referring to a printed book, but yet you can't provide us with any information on it so that we may go check it out ourselves. Other than the name, which is the same name as the online version, which says it's the whole manual and updated periodically, and includes things not in the printed manual.

I repeat my question because you did ABSOLUTELY no such thing as disproving thes prophecies. You didn't even come close, and you didn't even address them specifically, and you even made claims about the prophecies that were completely untrue and inaccurate. You haven't proved a thing. And you should take your own advice: repeating that you've disproved them won't make it true. So, by all means, take your best shot and try to disprove the prophecies one by one and I guaranty you'll come out looking like a complete fool in the process.

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

What? You just referenced the prophecies, yet you weren't taking about them? Make up your mind, please...

I was referencing my refutation of said "prophecies", saying that you have not read them. I was not talking about the "prophecies".

[BLAKE]

I prefer my wacko's to wear their crazy on their sleeves, so I know who to avoid. Thanks!

<- will now forever stay away from any and all 1992 Taurus SHO's that I may come in contact with.

[Mateo5.0]

I love this thread.

It went from the question of prophecies to the origin Asthma attacks.

BrianC...I DO think you have the power to cast out demons. I however also believe that you have the power to change anything and everything around you, if you so choose. Simply thinking about something causes an external change. Whether it's a facial expression, or helping a kid calm down during an asthma attack- your simply thinking about the situation had an effect on it. I'm not saying that it's solely a coincidence, nor am I saying that you didn't have anything to do with it. Your "demons" are what we in the rest of the world call a negative force (either caused internally<stress from mistakes made or other> or externally<stress from work/relationships>).

Unfortunately BrianC, "God" has put you in this situation where you are thrown to the "theological wolves" as they were, to defend your deeply rooted (I'm guessing that you're older) and nearly permanent belief system- only to realize that maybe you're wrong or even more likely: delusional. Face it, modern religion is based on blind faith, not on trial and error. It serves a purpose, and is nearly obsolete.

The answer is this:
There is no one true religion. That's it. Religion is religion. We all have it on this rock called Earth, It serves the exact same purpose everywhere- to make us more comfortable and better suited to handle our daily human tasks of working, eating, loving, etc.... It's comparable to a drug- the feeling of comfortability in your surroundings and the actual, documented release of natural dopamine and endorphins to further enhance your well-being, and ultimately making you not afraid to die anymore and to love everyone in the same boat as you. This feeling is what you call being "born again" or attending church to reprogram you every week, this general well-being and confidence in a higher power that everyone, EVERYONE on this earth shares in whether they acknowledge a higher power or not. No matter if you call him Allah, God, Yahweh, or simply yourself as the grand dictator of your universe (an atheist, IMO- which is healthy as long as you don't infringe on the well-being of others.)

It's called an EGO and we picked it up a long time ago in our evolution as man (around the time we started using tools and started civilization as we know it around 10-12 thousand years ago) to deal with things like Consciousness, Morality, Purpose, Desire, etc...
The life lesson is to learn to deal with ours and others egos around us in a fashion that best suits us individually and makes us all comfortable. The problem arises when you stop thinking, and start vomiting up indoctrinated hoopla to take the place of actual critical thought. That is when people die of religious persecution, holy wars are started, and nations are torn apart (like ours).

I hope that one day you wake up and stop living in a dream. The world is real, and so are you. It's absolutely correct that religion has fallen off in the world (except for Iran among others, where religion is still king), and that the course of our evolution as humans requires us to stop the killing in the name of God and begin a new religion- one without all the flaws of the past ones, man-made as they were. :(

I think that a religion based on science, medicine and cognitive brain function should be the new big idea. Why not focus on our potential brainpower seeing as though we only use about 10% of it during out entire life! (some people more , some people less). The fact is that there is a vast amount of knowledge that we all lack-about life, the universe and everything.

Use your brain to make decisions for yourself- leave the policing to the rest of us who aren't biased and swayed by religious zealots, and are capable of viewing the world with an open mind- rather than through an obsolete indoctrinated "hole-in-a-blanket".

After saying all this, I truly mean well for you Brian.

I just smelled way to much B.S. coming from your side of the room. :D

[exlude]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Brian has actually read a Merck Journal. Someone told him what it said.

[flashstang04]

I love this thread.

It went from the question of prophecies to the origin Asthma attacks.

BrianC...I DO think you have the power to cast out demons. I however also believe that you have the power to change anything and everything around you, if you so choose. Simply thinking about something causes an external change. Whether it's a facial expression, or helping a kid calm down during an asthma attack- your simply thinking about the situation had an effect on it. I'm not saying that it's solely a coincidence, nor am I saying that you didn't have anything to do with it. Your "demons" are what we in the rest of the world call a negative force (either caused internally<stress from mistakes made or other> or externally<stress from work/relationships>).

Unfortunately BrianC, "God" has put you in this situation where you are thrown to the "theological wolves" as they were, to defend your deeply rooted (I'm guessing that you're older) and nearly permanent belief system- only to realize that maybe you're wrong or even more likely: delusional. Face it, modern religion is based on blind faith, not on trial and error. It serves a purpose, and is nearly obsolete.

The answer is this:
There is no one true religion. That's it. Religion is religion. We all have it on this rock called Earth, It serves the exact same purpose everywhere- to make us more comfortable and better suited to handle our daily human tasks of working, eating, loving, etc.... It's comparable to a drug- the feeling of comfortability in your surroundings and the actual, documented release of natural dopamine and endorphins to further enhance your well-being, and ultimately making you not afraid to die anymore and to love everyone in the same boat as you. This feeling is what you call being "born again" or attending church to reprogram you every week, this general well-being and confidence in a higher power that everyone, EVERYONE on this earth shares in whether they acknowledge a higher power or not. No matter if you call him Allah, God, Yahweh, or simply yourself as the grand dictator of your universe (an atheist, IMO- which is healthy as long as you don't infringe on the well-being of others.)

It's called an EGO and we picked it up a long time ago in our evolution as man (around the time we started using tools and started civilization as we know it around 10-12 thousand years ago) to deal with things like Consciousness, Morality, Purpose, Desire, etc...
The life lesson is to learn to deal with ours and others egos around us in a fashion that best suits us individually and makes us all comfortable. The problem arises when you stop thinking, and start vomiting up indoctrinated hoopla to take the place of actual critical thought. That is when people die of religious persecution, holy wars are started, and nations are torn apart (like ours).

I hope that one day you wake up and stop living in a dream. The world is real, and so are you. It's absolutely correct that religion has fallen off in the world (except for Iran among others, where religion is still king), and that the course of our evolution as humans requires us to stop the killing in the name of God and begin a new religion- one without all the flaws of the past ones, man-made as they were. :(

I think that a religion based on science, medicine and cognitive brain function should be the new big idea. Why not focus on our potential brainpower seeing as though we only use about 10% of it during out entire life! (some people more , some people less). The fact is that there is a vast amount of knowledge that we all lack-about life, the universe and everything.

Use your brain to make decisions for yourself- leave the policing to the rest of us who aren't biased and swayed by religious zealots, and are capable of viewing the world with an open mind- rather than through an obsolete indoctrinated "hole-in-a-blanket".

After saying all this, I truly mean well for you Brian.

I just smelled way to much B.S. coming from your side of the room. :D



Problem is Mateo that you cannot explain for very real, very "physical world" stuff that has happened..for instance, things I have seen that were of the spiritual world, were very real and able to be documented by the people there at the time. Now, this is not talking anything about God or religion, just that "something else" that is out there....square one. How can you explain that? There is no insanity involved, or drugs, or anything other than a willingness to experience. I had posted some experiences in some other threads, and was either ignored, or just dismissed. That is fine, but there are too many people that experience what you probably toss aside as mass hypnosis to be all alone on this "perfectly spaced from the sun" ball of dirt in space.

[exlude]

There are also a ton of people who, very strongly, believe they have seen aliens. Just sayin'

[talisman]

There are also a ton of people who, very strongly, believe they have seen aliens. Just sayin'




I believe BrianC is one.

[DarkWolf]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Brian has actually read a Merck Journal. Someone told him what it said.

Oh you're totally wrong. As wrong as the Merck Medical Journal website.

At least according to BrianC :)

[Mateo5.0]

Problem is Mateo that you cannot explain for very real, very "physical world" stuff that has happened..for instance, things I have seen that were of the spiritual world, were very real and able to be documented by the people there at the time. Now, this is not talking anything about God or religion, just that "something else" that is out there....square one. How can you explain that? There is no insanity involved, or drugs, or anything other than a willingness to experience. I had posted some experiences in some other threads, and was either ignored, or just dismissed. That is fine, but there are too many people that experience what you probably toss aside as mass hypnosis to be all alone on this "perfectly spaced from the sun" ball of dirt in space.

Acknowledged and Accepted. I know that we aren't alone in this universe- it is at the same time a mathematical probability just as an improbability.


Again, I want to ask you all what you think of have heard about 2012?
Perhaps a global awakening? Arrival of aliens? Any thoughts, anyone?

[flashstang04]

Acknowledged and Accepted. I know that we aren't alone in this universe- it is at the same time a mathematical probability just as an improbability.


Again, I want to ask you all what you think of have heard about 2012?
Perhaps a global awakening? Arrival of aliens? Any thoughts, anyone?

Well you can go a lot of places with the whole 2012 thing..here are a few things people say will happen...

Apparently the Mayans were on to something...

anyway:

mass destruction

dimensional shift

Polar ice cap reversal

human kind evolving to the 5th dimension shift

arctic will be "ice free" by then

The aliens that made us will return and we will war with them (in these circles the aliens are conveniently called "the Elohim"

The reptilians will come to the surface and enslave human kind

The space grid around the earth will be lifted and allow negative forces to run rampant on our planet.

Many say that they had it wrong during translation and it is really going to happen in 2007 ..this month in fact..by the 31st.



....so you can tell, there are a lot of lunatic fringe concepts...based on anything really. Some say total destruction, some say an awakening, reptilians hate us, reptilians are fighting FOR us yada yada yada....it goes on and on

[txss]

I actually thin Brian C is the friend he is talking about in the first post. It is just one of his personalities.

[Mateo5.0]

Well you can go a lot of places with the whole 2012 thing..here are a few things people say will happen...

Apparently the Mayans were on to something...

anyway:

mass destruction

dimensional shift

Polar ice cap reversal

human kind evolving to the 5th dimension shift

arctic will be "ice free" by then

The aliens that made us will return and we will war with them (in these circles the aliens are conveniently called "the Elohim"

The reptilians will come to the surface and enslave human kind

The space grid around the earth will be lifted and allow negative forces to run rampant on our planet.

Many say that they had it wrong during translation and it is really going to happen in 2007 ..this month in fact..by the 31st.



....so you can tell, there are a lot of lunatic fringe concepts...based on anything really. Some say total destruction, some say an awakening, reptilians hate us, reptilians are fighting FOR us yada yada yada....it goes on and on

I read into it somewhere that the Mayans predicted a 13 year spiral into the descent of mankind beginning 1999. This is alarming seeing as that Y2K nearly made us all go mad. Perhaps this is one of the onsets 2012, a global awakening? The alignment of magnetic molecules in cooling rocks (it takes 100s of thousands of years for some molten rocks to completely cool, during which the magnetic poles on earth arrange the molecules in the direction of due north, or due south if on the southern hemisphere, according to where the poles where located at the time.) We can look at the arrangement of the magnetic molecules in these older specimens where many pole shifts are evident. In fact, the average pole shift on this planet is about every 150k-250k years sometimes MUCH less, like 75k or so. What's more is that we can take samples from simply two different locations (more are used of course to enhance accuracy, but for simple parallax distance viewing you only need two eyes..) and we can triangulate the approximate location of past north pole locations. It turns out that it's the same every time, the earth simple flops on it's side, where the north pole is located somewhere over the north Atlantic (greenland, iceland, labrador sea area). Over time the current poles will melt (it has already begun) entirely and reform in over 10s of thousands of years from now into what is now our Northern shipping lanes (we won't be shipping anything by then). It is a scary prediction, but I put a lot of weight on it considering that the Mayan calendar is the most accurate calendar in human history to date, what with a leap year every thousand years or so.

One thing is abundantly clear:

The Mayans knew a lot more about the movement of the stars in terms of astronomy than we did- up until a few decades ago (we didn't base our calendar on it, however they did- and is scary how some of the predicted events in their calendar coincide with world events).

The difference is that these predictions weren't written on paper and passed down from generation to generation- It was carved into stone over 2,500 years ago- literally unchanged since the calendar maker etched it out.

I personally never read of any reptilians coming back, but I only stuck to the mainstream stuff when researching.

[flashstang04]

Well, granted, if there IS any mainstream stuff. Everyone wants to be right though, so you see all of the lunatics spouting that the Zetas and the Greys are gonna return and fight for control of earth!! It's dumb, but entertaining.

[DarkWolf]

Polar ice cap reversal

I think you mean Magnetic Pole Reversal, or Magnetic Field Reversal. Which is an observable phenomenon, and based on the past few reversals, we're long overdue for another.

What that actually means for us is uncertain (the last reversal was ~780,000 years ago), so we have no historical reference of what will naturally occur when the poles shift.

Measuring the magnetic field, we can see the shift is already beginning (strength of the magnetosphere is wavering almost erratically). Massive climate and geological changes are speculated (torrential rains, widespread droughts, earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves, etc).

[flashstang04]

I think you mean Magnetic Pole Reversal, or Magnetic Field Reversal. Which is an observable phenomenon, and based on the past few reversals, we're long overdue for another.

What that actually means for us is uncertain (the last reversal was ~780,000 years ago), so we have no historical reference of what will naturally occur when the poles shift.

Measuring the magnetic field, we can see the shift is already beginning (strength of the magnetosphere is wavering almost erratically). Massive climate and geological changes are speculated (torrential rains, widespread droughts, earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves, etc).


Yep,thanks for the correction, that is what I meant

[Muffrazr]

I think you mean Magnetic Pole Reversal, or Magnetic Field Reversal. Which is an observable phenomenon, and based on the past few reversals, we're long overdue for another.

What that actually means for us is uncertain (the last reversal was ~780,000 years ago), so we have no historical reference of what will naturally occur when the poles shift.

Measuring the magnetic field, we can see the shift is already beginning (strength of the magnetosphere is wavering almost erratically). Massive climate and geological changes are speculated (torrential rains, widespread droughts, earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves, etc).


This magnetic pole reversal has always intrigued me. What gets me more than anything is how do they know the poles change? We have documented proof the Sun's poles change roughly every 11 years. This next change is supposed to be in 2012. So that perks my ears, for sure.

I still would like to know how they figured out that our poles will do the same, or if it is speculative. I have searched, but found nothing. Has anyone else figured it out?

[DarkWolf]

Basically, as lava cools the direction of the magnetic field is recorded in the resulting rock.

[Muffrazr]

Basically, as lava cools the direction of the magnetic field is recorded in the resulting rock.


Well that makes sense. I would imagine there would be enough iron in there to do so. Would the lava layer itself over another layer of lava or melt it down?
I'm guessing it would layer itself in order for scientists to realize the polarity was different at one time.

Sorry for the thread jacking.

[PWTRTXSS]

You know, half of me wants to say that BrianC is crazy. The other half wants to say that as well. I think I will just abstain from this thread because ... oh shit. A demon just showed up and I think he wants to possess me. Hold on...

THIS IS THE DEMON. I JUST WANT ALL OF YOU NONBELEIVERS TO HAVE A VERY MERRY AND SAFE ...MAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

That was wierd. You guys who know me will believe that I was possessed because the real me doesn't give a fuck about Christmas and I can spell "believe" correctly.

[Muffrazr]

Rama lama newy....This boy is healed. Now to the naked eye, it would appear that this boy has not been healed, but I can assure you this boy's spirit has been healed. Hallelujah.

[Quick '91 GT]

I quit reading this crap after the first page. This dude, "BrianC" the fuckin faith healer thought he would get on here and change the Atheistic beliefs of some. You sound a little like Tom Cruise when he attacked Matt Lauer...but whatever floats your quacky little boat. My issue is with the whole asthma thing....

"Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition. The Bible says fear is a demon. So, this one girl I know of had this demon of fear and she had athsma and couldn't even take deep breaths. Didn't know what it was like, actually. One day, she renounces that demon and casts it out. Immediately she took in a huge deep breath of air and never again had athsma or an athsma attack.
__________________
- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO "

Whatever homeopathic doctor told you this is as retarded as your above statement. My son was born with asthma and it was not caused by any demons or fear of demons. Dude, you get on here talking about casting out demons and shit in the name of God? How funny...i really hope you are joking or else you have reaffirmed the amount of naivity in the world. I hope we never meet because I am gonna stick my finger in your face and laugh.....dumbass.

[BrianC]

I gave up when BrianC correlated that the Pope was more of a sinner than himself.

That is all.

I never said that the Pope was more of a sinner than I am. You assumed that from the statement I made. What I said is that I think the Pope teaches a lot of false doctrines. I also said that God, in Deuteronomy, in regard to the Law, said that if you disobey His laws, He will curse you with every disease. I said that the Jews clearly believed sin caused disease due to this statement in Deuteronomy, and they show this in the New Testament when they ask Jesus, "Who sinned, this man's father or his mother, that he is blind from birth?" The Bible, which the Pope believes in, clearly teaches that sin causes death and that disobeying God (sinning) causes disease. As someone goes through life and doesn't get rid of sins, but lets them build, the conditions they get from those sins get worse and worse. Sometimes, it's sin that was passed down from their father, and they never realize they need to get rid of it so it just builds. If the Pope had certain serious sicknesses/diseases, it would mean that there could have been one or two sins that were never dealt with and the result is that later in life he developed the worst diseases connected to those sins.

For instance, if you stress (which is completely in your mind), doctors say that your body produces cortisol which causes your immune system not to flag cancer cells to be killed by the white bloodcells. Over the years, the cancer will grow and get to worse stages and spread. The longer you let it go, the worse it gets. But with other conditions, like autoimmune disorder, it can have any number of diseases associated with it. I think it's some number like 70% or more of diseases are a result of having an autoimmune disorder. The flu is autoimmune. Lupus is autoimmune. Alzheimers is a form of autoimmune (body attacks the brain and can kill of the part of the brain retraining memories, or just block them from being accesses, depending on the stages or degree to which you have it). TONS of things are covered under autoimmune disease/disorder. And that all stems from just one sin. So, just because I say the Pope has sickness caused by disease doesn't mean he's more of a sinner than I am. I have no clue if he is or not and I don't care. But apparently, there is a sin, or a few sins, that he never dealt with, that have caused him, in the latter days of his life, to have some pretty bad diseases. I'm just telling you what the Bible says, and I'm relating it to what the medical journals say. That's it. The Pope, if he ever taught Deuteronomy or Matthew or Genesis (original sin bringing death spiritual and eventually physical death) then he taught what I'm saying right now. Go take it up with him or the Bible. Oh, that's right...he's dead now. Well, sorry, missed your chance. He seemed like a good guy, though. Did a lot of good things.

[BrianC]

Basically, as lava cools the direction of the magnetic field is recorded in the resulting rock.

Supposedly, the magma on the ocean floor does not go "positive/negative" as scientists claim it does. They say it goes more magnetic, less magnetic, more magnetic, less magnetic, due to the temperature at which it was produced. When it comes out hotter initially and cools more slowly, it has less magnetic energy due to the heat. But when it comes out at a slighly cooler temperature and cools more quickly, it has a little more magnetic energy. But the question on this is: who's word do you trust on this? If I understand it correct, not hardly anyone has gone down to the ocean floor to study these lava ripples that we get, and so there's very little data besides one or two research missions down there. There could be more I'm just not aware of.

The premise of the temperature causing more or less magnetivity is simple. A magnet that's cold has more magnetic energy than one that is hot. If you want to kill a magnet's magnetivity, you simply heat it up and that magnet will lose it's magnetivity. Oddly enough, ice can have magnetivity to it. The cooler ice is, the more magnetic it becomes, or the more attracted to magnetic force it becomes. I honestly have seen none of the research on this, so I don't have personal experience with the research data on this magnetivity of super-cold ice thing. I'm strictly parotting information here. All I saw was a reference to the research. Didn't look at it for myself. This has something to do with super-conductors too. When you freeze certain metals down to around -400 or lower, they become super-conductors (lacking resistance for eletricity flow through the object). I've researched that a little, and that's sort of interesting stuff.

[BrianC]

I quit reading this crap after the first page. This dude, "BrianC" the fuckin faith healer thought he would get on here and change the Atheistic beliefs of some. You sound a little like Tom Cruise when he attacked Matt Lauer...but whatever floats your quacky little boat. My issue is with the whole asthma thing....

"Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition. The Bible says fear is a demon. So, this one girl I know of had this demon of fear and she had athsma and couldn't even take deep breaths. Didn't know what it was like, actually. One day, she renounces that demon and casts it out. Immediately she took in a huge deep breath of air and never again had athsma or an athsma attack.
__________________
- Brian
1992 Taurus SHO "

Whatever homeopathic doctor told you this is as retarded as your above statement. My son was born with asthma and it was not caused by any demons or fear of demons. Dude, you get on here talking about casting out demons and shit in the name of God? How funny...i really hope you are joking or else you have reaffirmed the amount of naivity in the world. I hope we never meet because I am gonna stick my finger in your face and laugh.....dumbass.

I think this is interesting. If someone came up to you and said, "I can pray for your son real quick and he'll never have another asthma attack again as long as he learns not to fear them anymore. Would you mind if I prayed for him real quick?" You, having NOTHING to lose from this (and your son having much to gain from this), would say, "I don't want your prayers you loon." I find your hate for such things that you don't believe in just mind blowing. Not that I would ever wish this upon anyone, but if your son died from an asthma attack 2 weeks after you refused prayer for him, and then a year later someone walks up to you and says, "Yeah, I had asthma when I was a kid, but someone prayed and cast out a demon of fear and I never had another attack again," (or two people said that to you later), you'd feel like a complete idiot for not even attempting this or humoring the religious nut that wanted to help your son, and then you would realize that your hate for such things caused you to pass up an opportunity to save your son's life.

You got nothing to lose, but your son does. Think about that next time someone says something to the effect of, "I can pray for your son and he can overcome this asthma." Just because you hate the spiritual things doesn't mean your son has to suffer for your ignorance or hate. Or maybe it does...

[BrianC]

I think you mean Magnetic Pole Reversal, or Magnetic Field Reversal. Which is an observable phenomenon, and based on the past few reversals, we're long overdue for another.

What that actually means for us is uncertain (the last reversal was ~780,000 years ago), so we have no historical reference of what will naturally occur when the poles shift.

Measuring the magnetic field, we can see the shift is already beginning (strength of the magnetosphere is wavering almost erratically). Massive climate and geological changes are speculated (torrential rains, widespread droughts, earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves, etc).

Where can I see scientific data (proof) that the pole activity is "irradict" right now? I'd like to see the data.

[BrianC]

Oh you're totally wrong. As wrong as the Merck Medical Journal website.

At least according to BrianC :)

All I saw was the blown up page from the medical journal. I suppose it could've been fabricated, except that the speaker was offering anyone the opportunity to go up and read the medical journal for themselves if they wanted. Many people went to the front to look at the material, so I assume some people looked at that medical journal and had saw what it said and saw no conflicts. I didn't take the time to go look at it.

If I come across one, I'll buy it and scan the page in for you if you like.

And no, I don't believe in aliens. Aliens are completely ridiculous. I believe in things I can see or reproduce the results. The only thing I believe in that I cannot see would be God Himself. I had to believe in Him on faith initially, because what He did to me without my even seeking it or realizing it would happen to me. And after that, I found far too much evidence of Him to deny that He exists.

Check out the archaeological digs on this website:

www.anchorstone.com

Should have Mount Sinai, Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Ark of the Covenant and one or two other discoveries. I'd say there's tons of proof of what's spoken of in the Bible that God did, and those things they find are without other explanation. I find it entertaining when scientists give their ridiculous claims as to how natural processes could've caused these archaeological finds. The things they claim could've happened are just absurd. Everyone always wants to find a way things happened aside from God and they always come up with idiotic stuff that's down-right funny.

[BrianC]

Alright, I'm going to stop posting in this thread because it's just a constant rehash of the same stuff and a big waste of time.

I'm going to post a new series of threads that have to do with the numerical prophecies in the Bible. Any of you atheists that want to take a stab at how all 13 of these prophecies could've come to pass, you go for it. But you're all going to look completely irrational, because ANY statistician will tell you tell you that it is a statistical impossibility for these prophecies to have all come true, especially when most were predicted 1800+ to 2300+ years before they happened. So, by all means, take your best shot at completely defying stitistical impossibility and logic and mathmatics and historical evidence.

[jluv]

You know, half of me wants to say that BrianC is crazy. The other half wants to say that as well. I think I will just abstain from this thread because ... oh shit. A demon just showed up and I think he wants to possess me. Hold on...

THIS IS THE DEMON. I JUST WANT ALL OF YOU NONBELEIVERS TO HAVE A VERY MERRY AND SAFE ...MAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

That was wierd. You guys who know me will believe that I was possessed because the real me doesn't give a fuck about Christmas and I can spell "believe" correctly.


Wow dude! That was crazy! Are you okay? Did you have an asthma attack?

[PWTRTXSS]

Wow dude! That was crazy! Are you okay? Did you have an asthma attack?

No asthma... but I DID eat Arby's right before that happened to me.

[BrianC]

No asthma... but I DID eat Arby's right before that happened to me.
I hear the cows Arby's gets their roast beef from are possessed. Superglue a cross to your forehead, stick your right leg in and your right leg out, then shake it all about...turn yourself around and that what it's all about. It works at Catholic parties sometimes, I hear. :D

[Mateo5.0]

Where can I see scientific data (proof) that the pole activity is "irradict" right now? I'd like to see the data.

I'm guessing that you meant "erratic".

Alright, I'm going to stop posting in this thread because it's just a constant rehash of the same stuff and a big waste of time.

I'm going to post a new series of threads that have to do with the numerical prophecies in the Bible. Any of you atheists that want to take a stab at how all 13 of these prophecies could've come to pass, you go for it. But you're all going to look completely irrational, because ANY statistician will tell you tell you that it is a statistical impossibility for these prophecies to have all come true, especially when most were predicted 1800+ to 2300+ years before they happened. So, by all means, take your best shot at completely defying stitistical impossibility and logic and mathmatics and historical evidence.

^That made me laugh.



THEY WERE INTENTIONALLY MADE VAGUE ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU (follower) TO MAKE THE CONNECTION AND BELIEVE THEM!!!1!1!1!!!


Jesus H. Christ.

I mean f*ck. C'mon. You're not an imbecile, are you? (Although your spelling is horrific) The prophecies were invented to make you believe in them.

MODERN MAINSTREAM RELIGION (this means you, BrianC) WAS CREATED TO CONTROL YOU AND YOUR LIFE!!!

The sad truth is that some people need to be told what to do. Others simply don't. It's the fact the PHILOSOPHY teaches us what we need to do to function in society properly.

I'm sorry if this is crushing news. But thinking for yourself is the best thing that you can do to improve your life. It's asshats that tell others what to do that screw up this world for everyone.

[BrianC]

I'm guessing that you meant "erratic".



^That made me laugh.



THEY WERE INTENTIONALLY MADE VAGUE ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU (follower) TO MAKE THE CONNECTION AND BELIEVE THEM!!!1!1!1!!!


Jesus H. Christ.

I mean f*ck. C'mon. You're not an imbecile, are you? (Although your spelling is horrific) The prophecies were invented to make you believe in them.

MODERN MAINSTREAM RELIGION (this means you, BrianC) WAS CREATED TO CONTROL YOU AND YOUR LIFE!!!

The sad truth is that some people need to be told what to do. Others simply don't. It's the fact the PHILOSOPHY teaches us what we need to do to function in society properly.

I'm sorry if this is crushing news. But thinking for yourself is the best thing that you can do to improve your life. It's asshats that tell others what to do that screw up this world for everyone.

I find your statement quite ironic and entertaining, because you say "they're made vague enough for people like you to make the connection," yet, when I show you in my other thread just how incredibly NON-vague they are and how incredibly specific they are, all you have to say is, "You have way too much time on your hands." Why? Because you have no clue how these VERY specific prophecies could've come to pass just as they were prophesied to.

Every statistician in on the planet will tell you that it is a statistical impossibility for these prophecies to be given so incredibly specific and then have them come true. Completely impossible, UNLESS there is a God that foresaw it ahead of time.

You have no leg to stand on... debate this in the other thread now. I want to hear how you can completely disprove these 13 different fulfillments that are statistically impossible without a God.

[DarkWolf]

Where can I see scientific data (proof) that the pole activity is "irradict" right now? I'd like to see the data.

Good christ, I even spelt it correctly in the part you quoted, and you still got it wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field
http://geomag.usgs.gov/faqs.php
http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/reversals.html
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm

They say it goes more magnetic, less magnetic, more magnetic, less magnetic, due to the temperature at which it was produced.

Who's "they"? When measuring the magnetic field reversals, the strength of the field has no bearing (and subsequently "how magnetic" the rocks are makes no difference). When the rocks cool, they are imprinted with the direction of magnetic north at the time they cooled.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=202

[BrianC]

Good christ, I even spelt it correctly in the part you quoted, and you still got it wrong.

This is the second time you've blatantly cursed at me, and using God's name in vain both times. That's completely uncalled for. You're just upset that you've been proven wrong many times and this has turned into "I'm right, you're wrong." I'm not getting into a pride battle with you. It goes no where. As I said in the other thread, I'm done with you. If this were a debate in person, I'd just walk away if someone spoke to me that way. You show no respect and I will not waste my time on you. I'm ignoring your posts from this point on.

[DarkWolf]

Good christ is a curse?

Kinda ridiculous, but whatever floats your boat man.

[1994SilverGT]

so what are the atheists supposed to explain to you? im not i understand what tey could tell you other than you are crazy.

[exlude]

Supposedly, the magma on the ocean floor does not go "positive/negative" as scientists claim it does. They say it goes more magnetic, less magnetic, more magnetic, less magnetic, due to the temperature at which it was produced. When it comes out hotter initially and cools more slowly, it has less magnetic energy due to the heat. But when it comes out at a slighly cooler temperature and cools more quickly, it has a little more magnetic energy.

I'd like to see where you got this information, as from what I have studied...that's not what causes a change in polarity or how polarity works in the first place.

[01WhiteCobra]

You obviously haven't a clue how the psychiatric field world and how multiples work either.

There are documented cases of people with over 2,000 different personalities. You're just inept at using the internet if you can't find documentation on this.

And as for your knowledge of the psychiatric field, patient files are locked away so that no one can read them. There's a big process that must be gone through to get permission to reveal patient history in documented cases. Therapists don't just go around airing everyone's dirty laundry for the world to see. Nice job showing your complete ignorance about MPD and the psychiatric field. Your opinion and knowledge is apparently valued highly in cases such as this.

LMAO, so you are a doctor?

[poopnut2]

This is the second time you've blatantly cursed at me, and using God's name in vain both times. That's completely uncalled for. You're just upset that you've been proven wrong many times and this has turned into "I'm right, you're wrong." I'm not getting into a pride battle with you. It goes no where. As I said in the other thread, I'm done with you. If this were a debate in person, I'd just walk away if someone spoke to me that way. You show no respect and I will not waste my time on you. I'm ignoring your posts from this point on.

It seems to me that to prove all of the biblical prophecies you just pull numbers out of your butt until you come close to a date that has some sort of "biblical" or "historical" relavence.

Could just be me though.

[SuperWho?]

Yeah, but you can find a lot of crap on the internet too.

I'm certain my friend with multiple personality disorder who grew up in an entire family of Satanists knows what she's talking about when she speaks of the Satanic tongue.

Oh, I almost forgot. Heck, you can go look up the Satanic Bible and find the Satanic tongue spoken of in there. That'd be the best way to find it.
you just debunked yourself with the first line, you proved everyone's point.

[BlueDemon01]

Jesus is pretty cool.

[Casper]

...
I have quite a bit of experience with MPD
...

No doubt you are a stand-alone case study for the latest proposed DSM-V supplement in the works.

[Casper]

I'll say this for the fourth time...the book is called THE MERCK MEDICAL JOURNAL....

You forgot the part about it being thick and blue.

You might want to include the volume and number, or maybe the date or edition, too. After all, a JOURNAL will have those for sure. Especially something that covers the last 50 years or so.

I wonder if Merck has withdrawn Singulair (Merck's fancy new asthma medicine) from the stores in favor of asthma-demon exorcising kits?

[Casper]

Again, I want to ask you all what you think of have heard about 2012?
Perhaps a global awakening? Arrival of aliens? Any thoughts, anyone?

Its the same as when your odometer rolls over. The Mayans were advanced enough with a definite place system math that they wouldn't run out of numbers. They just add another digit as the need arises.

Kind of like not bothering to represent 2012 as 00000002012 because it is redundant.

[Casper]

Supposedly, the magma on the ocean floor does not go "positive/negative" as scientists claim it does. They say it goes more magnetic, less magnetic, more magnetic, less magnetic, due to the temperature at which it was produced. When it comes out hotter initially and cools more slowly, it has less magnetic energy due to the heat. But when it comes out at a slighly cooler temperature and cools more quickly, it has a little more magnetic energy. But the question on this is: who's word do you trust on this? If I understand it correct, not hardly anyone has gone down to the ocean floor to study these lava ripples that we get, and so there's very little data besides one or two research missions down there. There could be more I'm just not aware of.

The premise of the temperature causing more or less magnetivity is simple. A magnet that's cold has more magnetic energy than one that is hot. If you want to kill a magnet's magnetivity, you simply heat it up and that magnet will lose it's magnetivity. Oddly enough, ice can have magnetivity to it. The cooler ice is, the more magnetic it becomes, or the more attracted to magnetic force it becomes. I honestly have seen none of the research on this, so I don't have personal experience with the research data on this magnetivity of super-cold ice thing. I'm strictly parotting information here. All I saw was a reference to the research. Didn't look at it for myself. This has something to do with super-conductors too. When you freeze certain metals down to around -400 or lower, they become super-conductors (lacking resistance for eletricity flow through the object). I've researched that a little, and that's sort of interesting stuff.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

Preserved for posterity.

maybe that was from the Merck Magnetic Journal?

[Tangstang]

No denomination. Just Christian. And no denomination is responsible for my beliefs, either. I study for myself.

I learned a lot about spiritual warfare this year and working with multiples.

I will say, though, when I was 19, there was a girl who was anorexic and it was demon possession or oppression. Not sure which. She blamed herself for her boyfriend's death (but she had nothing to do with it). So, over two years, she drank, smoked, did drugs and became anorexic (all self-destructive behaviors). Basically, she hated herself and didn't realize it, and was abusing herself as a result.

Right before this, I had learned the very basics of casting out a demon. I knew immediately that this girl was possessed or oppressed. I'd known her a couple of years before this and she looked up to me like a big brother.

Anyway, so, I tell her she needs to have this demon cast out and she should pray for God to cast it out of her. She's pretty sure I'm correct, but doesn't know what to do.

So, I email her late at night before I got to bed, and she's already asleep (note the order of events). She wakes up the next morning and says she feels completely different, as if she's gained weight overnight (in the morning is when you weigh the least, actually), and she has no desire to drink, smoke or do drugs. She weighs herself and she's gained 3 pounds. She checks her e-mail and sees what I told her I was going to do the night before all this happened.

I told her I would go to bed and command out this demon in Jesus' name before I went to bed (now, what's weird, is usually, demons must hear you...but I guess God carried my voice to them, because you are commanding them...not sure). Anyway, before, she weighed 87 pounds and was 5'7" tall. In two weeks, she gained 40 pounds and stayed at 127 pounds continuously, without changing any eating habits. Not even sure if it's humanly possible to gain 40 pounds in two weeks, but she did.

Her parents contacted me 6 months later and thanked me for giving them their girl back, and I said, "Jesus did that, not me." They said she did a complete 180...no addictions anymore, no anorexia, and she found a Christian boyfriend she now went to church with and she was in college now, doing really well.

How do you explain things like that? It cannot be the placebo effect, because she didn't know I had cast that demon out when she first noticed the differences she felt upon waking that morning. She was in despair the night before.

Athsma is now officially said to be caused by fear, alone, and no other medical condition. The Bible says fear is a demon. So, this one girl I know of had this demon of fear and she had athsma and couldn't even take deep breaths. Didn't know what it was like, actually. One day, she renounces that demon and casts it out. Immediately she took in a huge deep breath of air and never again had athsma or an athsma attack.


So... I haven't been on dfwstangs much lately but I saw an interesting topic on the main page and clicked over here. I read a couple of the OP's threads and oh my...........we have a new nutcase and I didn't even know it:o. I especially like the part in bold for this thread, that's all I'm gonna say;).

[Tangstang]

Whoops, wasn't even the OP's thread I was reading, it was phillystang's. Nutcases galore!