Thinking out loud #3

[SVT93Style]

Pagan this pagan that...this is an old tired argument which in actauality has no point to argue.

All these pagan roots have nothing to do with BELIEFS, none what so ever.

These so called holidays were all representative of the season of the earth and the soltice and equinox and astroloy etc...

When the church came along they replaced them to make the transition easier...has nothing to do with the Bible really or any Belief system.

I personally am not a fan of the Christmas tree...I don't mind fake ones but the real ones chap my ass a bit...I see no reason to chop down trees.

I don't like Santa Claus...nothing against but if I have kids I am certainly not shoveling this crap in there minds....

Forget about the Easter bunny...

None of this has anything to do with authentic Christianity....plain and simple.

[DarkWolf]

You are absolutely correct. It has nothing to do with christianity. And the bible specifically instructs jews and subsequently christians not to take up the ways of the pagans.

And yet year after year we've got christmas trees and wreathes, santa and his elves, the easter bunny and it's eggs, leprechauns, and trick or treating.

[SVT93Style]

You are absolutely correct. It has nothing to do with christianity. And the bible specifically instructs jews and subsequently christians not to take up the ways of the pagans.

And yet year after year we've got christmas trees and wreathes, santa and his elves, the easter bunny and it's eggs, leprechauns, and trick or treating.


I agree with this, but from what I understand people disagree about why "we" do this.

Just b/c the christmas tree was a pagan sign and now has been adopted into tradition and or culture people are not doing for the same reason...they are not worshiping the tree or the season...so the whole Christianity is pagan thing doesn't apply at all.
These pagan thing were taken over and replaced..

People do it b/c its festive and it's chirstmas etc...if Christ is at the center not the pagan ideal...does it matter?

[flashstang04]

I agree with this, but from what I understand people disagree about why "we" do this.

Just b/c the christmas tree was a pagan sign and now has been adopted into tradition and or culture people are not doing for the same reason...they are not worshiping the tree or the season...so the whole Christianity is pagan thing doesn't apply at all.
These pagan thing were taken over and replaced..

People do it b/c its festive and it's chirstmas etc...if Christ is at the center not the pagan ideal...does it matter?


Many of the traditions were accepted as Christian traditions so that the pagans would be influenced into Christianity, so in that regard, there is nothing wrong if someone wants to decorate a tree, for they are surely not setting it up as an idol.

Same thing with the date Dec 25th. The only reason this date was chosen is so that the pagans influence would eventually fade around one of their biggest holy days, and eventually be lost in celebrating Christ's birth. It worked too.

[DarkWolf]

Except it's all a facade.

They did their jobs in the past (convert pagans), why not change christmas to christ's true birthday? (I'll set aside for the moment that no one actually knows for sure when Jesus was born). Why not eliminate easter entirely, and just have a traditional mass celebrating the resurrection?

Why celebrate his birth at all, when celebrating any birth was never a christian tradition until around the 3rd or 4th century as the church was working on adopting holidays and rituals in order to convert pagans?

Continuing them now is just maintaining the charade. They were forged under false pretense, and they continue to this day under false pretense. It's using christ as a band-aid to "fix" pagan holidays, while still observing the rights and rituals performed on those pagan holidays.

[flashstang04]

Except it's all a facade.

They did their jobs in the past (convert pagans), why not change christmas to christ's true birthday? (I'll set aside for the moment that no one actually knows for sure when Jesus was born). Why not eliminate easter entirely, and just have a traditional mass celebrating the resurrection?

Why celebrate his birth at all, when celebrating any birth was never a christian tradition until around the 3rd or 4th century as the church was working on adopting holidays and rituals in order to convert pagans?

Continuing them now is just maintaining the charade. They were forged under false pretense, and they continue to this day under false pretense. It's using christ as a band-aid to "fix" pagan holidays, while still observing the rights and rituals performed on those pagan holidays.


I find i agree with you a lot in this post. I can't, however, fail to see the effectiveness of the ministries around the holidays. "It should be that way all the time" you may say, and you would be right, but there is something about this time of year that makes some people seek what they have been missing. Many are more spiritually fertile for whatever reason. For that reason alone, I think Christ can overlook the fact that it is a shell holiday, if not only for the fact that His people touch so many more around Christmas.

[jones4stangs]

Except it's all a facade.

They did their jobs in the past (convert pagans), ......

Continuing them now is just maintaining the charade. They were forged under false pretense, and they continue to this day under false pretense. It's using christ as a band-aid to "fix" pagan holidays, while still observing the rights and rituals performed on those pagan holidays.
Good points. Maybe it's because the Christian elements of today's holidays are the minor focus. Have the pagans retaken the holidays? What do you think the public reaction would be to what you've proposed? Let’s say you separate all the holidays. Which group would dominate and which fade into obscurity.

I don't know how the holidays have been celebrated for the last 400 years. Has Christianity ever truly been the focus or driving force behind them?

I find it pretty interesting that some denominations embrace the holidays, while others seek to separate themselves from them.

[jones4stangs]

I find i agree with you a lot in this post. I can't, however, fail to see the effectiveness of the ministries around the holidays. "It should be that way all the time" you may say, and you would be right, but there is something about this time of year that makes some people seek what they have been missing. Many are more spiritually fertile for whatever reason. For that reason alone, I think Christ can overlook the fact that it is a shell holiday, if not only for the fact that His people touch so many more around Christmas.
Good observation.

[89gt-stanger]

I know several non believers that use Christmas trees, not to display faith, but to display the spirit of the "holidays" and the gift of giving, and receiving.

[flashstang04]

I know several non believers that use Christmas trees, not to display faith, but to display the spirit of the "holidays" and the gift of giving, and receiving.


Kind of goes along with my point about non believers being more receptive around this time.