Painting interior wood paneling?

[Tyrone Biggums]

Our house was built in '85 during the era when wood paneling was popular. The living room is recessed paneling from floor to ceiling. Now, I've done plenty of painting in my day, but this is something I always said I'd pay someone to do. After our $1600+ quote, it looks like I'll be doing it myself. I've already accepted the fact that it's going to be time consuming and a pain in the ass, that I'm not worried about. What bothers me is the notion of possibly having to sand the clear finish off to get a primer to stick to the surface, that would just flat out be a motherfucker.

So, anyone done this before, any special tips, products, or tricks you used that you liked or didn't like? Before and after pics, etc. What you got?

[Wright=Extreme]

To tell you the truth from the houses i have seen with it, it likes like PURE ASS just save your money and install sheetrock bro, or just dont paint it. My parents owned a construction company growing up and i saw it to many times when we went into homes to rebuild them.

[onjacks]

I remodel houes for a living. I f you want it to look decent, it needs to be sprayed.

Ge a "good " primer such as killz. wipe down paneling with laquer thinner to make sure their is no grease oil etc.

Caulk all the grooves since they will "soak" up all the primer and paint. Two light coats of primer.

The next day or whenever, repeat steps with an oil based paint. Brushing will leave hella brush marks. Make sure you do 2 to 3 light coats or that paint will run badly.

I use Benjamin Moore products. At 42 bucks a gallon it covers the best.

You dont have to use oil base, " It's pretty messy" but, it gives the most durability and smoothest finish.

Lmk. if you need some more help. :)

[onjacks]

Oh BTW. If you cant "rent" a sprayer roll it on with a roller and go back over it with a brush. ;)

[To Many Mustangs]

This is not hard to do for a novice. My wife and I have flipped and laddered our whole marriage and have painted panneling a bunch. The nice part is that you get a textured look that gives the room character. Great moulding with panneling is a must too.

1] Start by buying yourself a cheap random orbit sander, $35 at Home Depot, and some 220 grit paper. Lightly sand every inch then wipe the whole thing down with TSP & water.

2] USE ZINSER 123 Primer in a SPRAY GUN. NEVER NEVER NEVER try to roll panneling. You can rent sprayers or buy a $100 Wagner set-up and come out ahead in clean-up and keep the gun. 2 coats.

3] When you finish paint, use flat or eggshell paints. Semi-gloss and gloss are going to look silly.

You can do it man. It will be smarter and cheaper in the long run that rocking the whole thing. I will send you pics of my current ladder house if you want to see how good it can look.

[talisman]

Fagsnake could do it for $10 in 35 minutes.

[Tyrone Biggums]

Fagsnake could do it for $10 in 35 minutes.

To be honest, if the price was right and the work was quality, I'd consider it.

[talisman]

To be honest, if the price was right and the work was quality, I'd consider it.



Yeah, but who are you going to pay to santitize the house and replace your wifes underwear once he is done?

[JimD]

LOL @ fagsnake..

[bullet]

I've been in remodeling since 1992 and have done quite a few paneling to paint conversions. You do not have to use a spray rig but it will save time. You must wipe all the paneling with thinner to remove any type of products that may have been applied such as endust, wax, etc. After doing that you need to sand it with 220 grit. Fill any holes and caulk the cracks. Wipe it down again with TSP. You then need to use an oil primer to seal it. If you don't want to use an oil primer the only latex primer I recommend is from benjamin moore and it is called seal grip. If you do not want to use a spray rig then you need to go buy a 1/4 inch nap lint free roller made by purdy. Get one for the primer and one for the finish coat. This roller will leave a slight orange peel on the paneling but it will look like it was sprayed. For paint I recommend "pro classic" by sherwin williams. It is an latex enamel but when dry has the durability of oil and lays really good even with a brush. 1 primer coat and either 1 or 2 coats of paint should do it depending on the color you pick for the top coat. You may also want to tint the primer close to the color of your topcoat if you want to try to just get by with one coat of paint.

[Tyrone Biggums]

I've been in remodeling since 1992 and have done quite a few paneling to paint conversions. You do not have to use a spray rig but it will save time. You must wipe all the paneling with thinner to remove any type of products that may have been applied such as endust, wax, etc. After doing that you need to sand it with 220 grit. Fill any holes and caulk the cracks. Wipe it down again with TSP. You then need to use an oil primer to seal it. If you don't want to use an oil primer the only latex primer I recommend is from benjamin moore and it is called seal grip. If you do not want to use a spray rig then you need to go buy a 1/4 inch nap lint free roller made by purdy. Get one for the primer and one for the finish coat. This roller will leave a slight orange peel on the paneling but it will look like it was sprayed. For paint I recommend "pro classic" by sherwin williams. It is an latex enamel but when dry has the durability of oil and lays really good even with a brush. 1 primer coat and either 1 or 2 coats of paint should do it depending on the color you pick for the top coat. You may also want to tint the primer close to the color of your topcoat if you want to try to just get by with one coat of paint.

Good info right there, thanks.

The recessed areas of the paneling are surrounded by a "picture frame" style trim which doesn't really have a flat surface to sand. Would you recommend trying to sand the trim anyway? When you say wipe it down again with TSP, is that just a basic laquer thinner, or a specific product. I work right next to a Sherwin Williams so I always use their stuff anyways. I've also got access to a spray rig.

Also, since you've been in it for 15 years, do you think the bid I got seemed high for a 20x18 or so living room?

Another question I had was about painting floor trim that's above carpet. What's the best or most popular method to keep paint off the carpet? In the past, I've just laid wide tape up under the trim but removal can be a bitch in spots where the paint has dried to both the trim and the tape.

[bullet]

Good info right there, thanks.

The recessed areas of the paneling are surrounded by a "picture frame" style trim which doesn't really have a flat surface to sand. Would you recommend trying to sand the trim anyway? When you say wipe it down again with TSP, is that just a basic laquer thinner, or a specific product. I work right next to a Sherwin Williams so I always use their stuff anyways. I've also got access to a spray rig.

Also, since you've been in it for 15 years, do you think the bid I got seemed high for a 20x18 or so living room?

Another question I had was about painting floor trim that's above carpet. What's the best or most popular method to keep paint off the carpet? In the past, I've just laid wide tape up under the trim but removal can be a bitch in spots where the paint has dried to both the trim and the tape.






If I tell you everthing I will have to charge a consulting fee !!!


:)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate


You need to sand everything that is going to be painted over so that the primer bonds good.




As far as the price there are quite a few variables. Is it all one color or is the trim going to be a different one ? How tall are the walls ? How many windows, doors, fireplace, built ins are there in the room that have to be cut around ? Did that include painting the ceiling too ? If so, how high is it ? Is it a cathedral ceiling ? Is your house in the sticks ? etc etc......



For carpet I run 2 inch tape and tuck it underneath the actually baseboard using a 5 and 1 tool. The secret is to remove the tape when the paint is tacked up but not hardened all the way. Just simply press down on the tape where it meets the trim at the bottom to separate the tape from the wood before you try to pull it up. If you wait til the next day to remove it you are screwed.

[46Tbird]

Jimmy, use a ScotchBrite pad to scuff the rounded picture frame part.

Good tips in here guys, thanks. I'm looking at doing the same thing for my 1985 house. :) :rolleyes:

WHY was that shit popular? LOL!

[Tyrone Biggums]

If I tell you everthing I will have to charge a consulting fee !!!

I appreciate all the info, lots of good stuff here. And people said we didn't need a home improvement forum. :rolleyes:

Jimmy, use a ScotchBrite pad to scuff the rounded picture frame part.

WHY was that shit popular? LOL!

Good idea on the Scotchbrite. *forehead slap* I've got some in the work bench. I'll let you guys know how this goes. I've got to finish two bedrooms before I get to this, so it will probably be summer before I start the living room.

[George G.]

Do you just want to keep the paneling? Why not tear it down and texture the walls? I can't imagine paneling looking any better painted than stained. I'm not for paneling though.

[jakesford]

my parents did it in their old house... The den had paneling all around floor to ceiling. As mentioned TSP and killz was how they did it...

[Blue90LXSupercharged]

I have one wall in my den that is pannel. Painted it years ago when we bought the house. I just cleaned it and used a damn roller. Looks good.

[46Tbird]

Do you just want to keep the paneling? Why not tear it down and texture the walls? I can't imagine paneling looking any better painted than stained. I'm not for paneling though.
It's not like if you pull it away gently, you get usable sheet rock there. There will be a visible line in the sheet rock all the way around the room at 3' high because of the old paint and texture.

Or, more likely, you'll have to trash the drywall in order to pry the panelling off of it. And in some cases, there's not any drywall behind the panelling.

Re-drywalling your entire living room is a bigger pain in the ass than just painting the stuff. Plus, you can do "some" detail painting with it that gives it a nice look.

[onjacks]

A quick easy fix for that is to "trowel texture" after removing the paneling.

No sanding involved. ;)

[Tyrone Biggums]

And in some cases, there's not any drywall behind the paneling.




Word.

Before it was considered a potential fire hazard (pre-late 80's, I think) drywall was not required beneath paneling, so many home builders threw up the paneling on the studs and called it a day. It's not like they used cheap shit paneling though. What I've got is framed out recessed paneling that has to be 3/16" thick. I'm sure it was hot upgrade to have back in the day, but now, it really dates the home.

[89gt-stanger]

whats underneath of the wood, is it just nailed up?

if painting, spray IS the best way 2 go.

[jewozzy]

I have one wall in my den that is pannel. Painted it years ago when we bought the house. I just cleaned it and used a damn roller. Looks good.

my mom did this at our house when i was growing up and it looked fine as well. used like 2 coats of paint with some primer i believe.

[BlackSnake1996]

Good info right there, thanks.

I work right next to a Sherwin Williams so I always use their stuff anyways. I've also got access to a spray rig.

Also, since you've been in it for 15 years, do you think the bid I got seemed high for a 20x18 or so living room?

Another question I had was about painting floor trim that's above carpet. What's the best or most popular method to keep paint off the carpet? In the past, I've just laid wide tape up under the trim but removal can be a bitch in spots where the paint has dried to both the trim and the tape.

If you are gonna spray, be sure to ask for a 2.11 tip. It will be the best for your abilities. A 3.11 at best. Also I would agree with the KILZ application for a primer. I like to use the Cover Stain myself. Both are equally applicable. I just think that the Cover Stain sands out better.
Sherwin Williams Pro Classic alkyd for your top coat. Its the only non-yellowing alkyd that I'm aware of.

I have been painting for about 28 years now, and the bid you received sounds pretty good for picture frame paneling. If its the old paneling with the vertical lines, the quote is a little high. You'd be surprised at the work involved.

As far as taping off your floors...Take 1 1/2 inch tape and lap it up on the base boards just enough to have some to tuck under. Pull tape before paint dries. ;)


Estimates are always free. Shoot me a PM if you'd like for us to come out.
Thanks,
Wayne.

[bsharer]

Id have Wayne, BlackSnake1996, give you an estimate. He paints a TON of houses around Trophy Club. Despite his dfwstangs rep, he is one of the nicer fellas Ive met from here!

Or, send Carrie a PM and she can give you her brothers info. He could give you a bid for paint, demo + sheetrock, or anything else.

[bcoop]

It's not like if you pull it away gently, you get usable sheet rock there. There will be a visible line in the sheet rock all the way around the room at 3' high because of the old paint and texture.

Or, more likely, you'll have to trash the drywall in order to pry the panelling off of it. And in some cases, there's not any drywall behind the panelling.

Re-drywalling your entire living room is a bigger pain in the ass than just painting the stuff. Plus, you can do "some" detail painting with it that gives it a nice look.



It's a pain in the dick, but it's really not that bad. Honestly. Been there, done that. Also, you can go the cheap route and lay 1/4" sheet rock over the 5/8" rock, and nobody will really be able to tell a difference. You can't in my house.



Tried to post pics, but I can't get them small enough to post. WTF? These are as small as I can get them?

[bcoop]

Word.

Before it was considered a potential fire hazard (pre-late 80's, I think) drywall was not required beneath paneling, so many home builders threw up the paneling on the studs and called it a day. It's not like they used cheap shit paneling though. What I've got is framed out recessed paneling that has to be 3/16" thick. I'm sure it was hot upgrade to have back in the day, but now, it really dates the home.


That's exactly what I had, but I did have sheetrock underneath. Didn't stop me from having to hang new sheetrock, though. They used nails, and liquid nails to hang the shit. :mad:

[bcoop]

A quick easy fix for that is to "trowel texture" after removing the paneling.

No sanding involved. ;)



Yeah, are you sure you've done this before? There is no mudding over the sheetrock if they used liquid nails. The paper WILL pull away from the rock. Taping it will help, if it's small enough. If you have big rips like I did, nothing helped. That's why we had to hang new sheetrock.

[Tyrone Biggums]

That's exactly what I had, but I did have sheetrock underneath. Didn't stop me from having to hang new sheetrock, though. They used nails, and liquid nails to hang the shit. :mad:

I can't imagine how irate I would have been if MY wife and in-laws started ripping shit down while I was gone. I feel for you on that one.

[BlackSnake1996]

A quick easy fix for that is to "trowel texture" after removing the paneling.

No sanding involved. ;)
That trial texture would have to be really heavy.

[BlackSnake1996]

Id have Wayne, BlackSnake1996, give you an estimate. He paints a TON of houses around Trophy Club. Despite his dfwstangs rep, he is one of the nicer fellas Ive met from here!

Or, send Carrie a PM and she can give you her brothers info. He could give you a bid for paint, demo + sheetrock, or anything else.
Thanks Brian.
And I have met Carrie's brother a few times. Another stand up guy.

[bcoop]

I can't imagine how irate I would have been if MY wife and in-laws started ripping shit down while I was gone. I feel for you on that one.



Yeah, I was pretty fucking pissed for a while after that. However, I'm so glad that's what we did now that it's done. It looks a million times better. I just loathe tape/bed work.

[46Tbird]

Come do my house... beaner. :D

[bcoop]

Come do my house... beaner. :D



Sure thing, I'll be right there.

[BOOSTED32V]

So, anyone done this before, any special tips, products, or tricks you used that you liked or didn't like? Before and after pics, etc. What you got?
It is just time consuming more than anything else, $1600.00?!?! Fuck that, buy you a gallon of Kilz and put some Kelly Moore interior on it, thats what we did in my dads old house I was renting over 10 yrs ago. It looked pretty damn good too when we were done. Hiring house painters is like hiring people to do your lawn, in the end it's just our laziness not to do it...'H'

[BlackSnake1996]

It is just time consuming more than anything else, $1600.00?!?! Fuck that, buy you a gallon of Kilz and put some Kelly Moore interior on it, thats what we did in my dads old house I was renting over 10 yrs ago. It looked pretty damn good too when we were done. Hiring house painters is like hiring people to do your lawn, in the end it's just our laziness not to do it...'H'
I can paint cars, but I'm sure that you can make them look 10 times better than I.

1600.00 is a really good price. We are usually 21-22 hundred on picture frame panneling. Takes 2 and sometimes 3 days to do it right.


Ahhh...Didnt your lazy ass pay someone to stain your deck. :D

[Tyrone Biggums]

It is just time consuming more than anything else, $1600.00?!?! Fuck that, buy you a gallon of Kilz and put some Kelly Moore interior on it, thats what we did in my dads old house I was renting over 10 yrs ago. It looked pretty damn good too when we were done. Hiring house painters is like hiring people to do your lawn, in the end it's just our laziness not to do it...'H'

It's the time it would take to do it. Between work and everything else it would take me forever to finish the job. All the sanding alone would probably take me a 3 day weekend between moving furniture, taping things off, surface prep, and then the actual sanding. Having the living room a wreck and basically un-usable for a few weeks wouldn't bother me at all, it would however drive my wife nuts, she would in turn drive me apeshit. I figured it would be one of those things I would be better off paying someone to do and have it knocked out in 2-3 days. I was counting a $1000, but not $1600. For that much, I'm just going to devote a weeks vacation to it so I'm not rushed and throw down new base and crown while I'm at it.

[BOOSTED32V]

It's the time it would take to do it. Between work and everything else it would take me forever to finish the job. All the sanding alone would probably take me a 3 day weekend between moving furniture, taping things off, surface prep, and then the actual sanding. Having the living room a wreck and basically un-usable for a few weeks wouldn't bother me at all, it would however drive my wife nuts, she would in turn drive me apeshit. I figured it would be one of those things I would be better off paying someone to do and have it knocked out in 2-3 days. I was counting a $1000, but not $1600. For that much, I'm just going to devote a weeks vacation to it so I'm not rushed and throw down new base and crown while I'm at it.Depends on who you call too, I had some guys do my kitchen & nook, took down the wallpaper, shot texture (cali drag) and rolled it an nice yellow we picked for $600.00. I had a big company give me a bid for 900.00 :eek: ...'H'

[Tyrone Biggums]

Depends on who you call too, I had some guys do my kitchen & nook, took down the wallpaper, shot texture (cali drag) and rolled it an nice yellow we picked for $600.00. I had a big company give me a bid for 900.00 :eek: ...'H'

I hear you. I planned on getting two more quotes, before I jump in, just to see what others say. I've still got two bedrooms to finish first.

[BlackSnake1996]

Depends on who you call too, I had some guys do my kitchen & nook, took down the wallpaper, shot texture (cali drag) and rolled it an nice yellow we picked for $600.00. I had a big company give me a bid for 900.00 :eek: ...'H'
You got lucky if the job looks nice. Most trial finishes are about $1.50 per sq ft.

[bcoop]

Depends on who you call too, I had some guys do my kitchen & nook, took down the wallpaper, shot texture (cali drag) and rolled it an nice yellow we picked for $600.00. I had a big company give me a bid for 900.00 :eek: ...'H'



We did/are doing orange peel in our house. It's the same as splatter drag/ knockdown, but without the trowel. :D Takes me about 45 minutes to shoot an entire room, and that includes the time thinning down the texture. :p

[BOOSTED32V]

We did/are doing orange peel in our house. It's the same as splatter drag/ knockdown, but without the trowel. :D Takes me about 45 minutes to shoot an entire room, and that includes the time thinning down the texture. :pYup, pretty easy to do. House painting unlike Automotive painting is very simple, my buddy and his wife did a nice two tone (color on top of color in their house (multiple rooms) and I thought a professional did it, I was pretty impressed...'H'

[Big Studly]

what is keeping you from just throwing up some sheet rock over the paneling?

[bcoop]

what is keeping you from just throwing up some sheet rock over the paneling?




Why would anyone in their right mind sheetrock over paneling? :confused:

[BOOSTED32V]

Why would anyone in their right mind sheetrock over paneling? :confused:
Yeah I'm assuming there is sheetrock underneath, but then you get into more work prepping the sheetrock for paint, I have painted over wood paneling and it looked fine...'H'

[Big Studly]

Why would anyone in their right mind sheetrock over paneling? :confused:

if you are going to paint it? So it doesn't look like painted wood paneling, that is why.

[Marisa]

I'll get some pics of mine. I put a primer over it then painted it white - looks a million times better.

[bcoop]

if you are going to paint it? So it doesn't look like painted wood paneling, that is why.



But you can pull the paneling off, and 7 times out of 10 there is going to be sheetrock under it. ;)

[BlackSnake1996]

Yup, pretty easy to do. House painting unlike Automotive painting is very simple. 'H'

Henry, lets be real here. I have hired (as I'm sure you have) many so called experienced painters. Not home owners, but people that have made a living painting houses. I cant begin to tell you how many I have hired and fired in a hours time. Not only, but we have been hired to fix other paint companies flaws at about 1 every 2 months. Not to mention fixing what home owners thought they could do. Now, the job might look pretty damn good to you, but 9 times out of 10, I could do a walk through and point out countless flaws.

Having said this, I would agree that we have been surprised from time to time on the work some home owners have done, but it isn't very often. If it suits you, then so be it. But there is seldom a match to what a seasoned professional can do for ya.

[Big Studly]

But you can pull the paneling off, and 7 times out of 10 there is going to be sheetrock under it. ;)

I was going with the assumption that taking the paneling off would tear up the sheet rock......obviously if you can just take down the paneling and have sheet rock, that is the best option.

[BlackSnake1996]

I was going with the assumption that taking the paneling off would tear up the sheet rock......obviously if you can just take down the paneling and have sheet rock, that is the best option.
You really should never go over the paneling with Sheetrock. It causes a improper fit on the door jams. Yes, you can install 1/4" stock to fill it in, but its a noticeable eye sore. It causes the window ceil's look too small as well.

Its always best to pull it off and float out the areas where the nails were and also float out where the glue pulled the Sheetrock paper.

[Tyrone Biggums]

what is keeping you from just throwing up some sheet rock over the paneling?

Because that makes absolutely no sense.

[bcoop]

Because that makes absolutely no sense.




Pretty much.

[Big Studly]

Because that makes absolutely no sense.

hey, I am not the one who is going to either spend $1600 or waste a shit load of time sanding wood paneling......which neither makes much sense to me. No house work FTW!

[George G.]

I was going with the assumption that taking the paneling off would tear up the sheet rock......obviously if you can just take down the paneling and have sheet rock, that is the best option.


Like I mentioned before though, there will be quite a bit of prep work and some extra materials to buy. Most likely, you won't be able to remove all the moulding in one piece. Some will break and there's the possibility you won't be able to find an exact match. Another issue I ran into is the door jambs and trim. It was fitted to account for the extra thickness of the paneling. When I removed it from this one house, the door jamb edges were raised too high from the sheetrock to just come back with new door trim . I had to get creative and use a different trim to make it work. Not to mention, when a house is built with paneling, it goes up first, then any book cases, cabinets, shelves, base/crown moulding etc, so you'll have to cut the paneling if you're not going to remove those items. Just more work involved. Oh, and the fit of the sheetrock behind it is horrible. Lots of prep work

In the end though, he'll end up with an updated house and if done right, will appeal to more buyers when he decides to sell it. Not to mention, this could be done for far less than $1600 if he did it himself.

Disclaimer-if you're not that much of a DIY'er, I wouldn't attempt it.

[BlackSnake1996]

One thing that I forgot to mention, Cover Stain instead of Kilz is the way to go as a primer. With Cover Stain, you don't have to sand before applying it, where Kilz requires sanding before application.

[Tyrone Biggums]

One thing that I forgot to mention, Cover Stain instead of Kilz is the way to go as a primer. With Cover Stain, you don't have to sand before applying it, where Kilz requires sanding before application.

So your saying Cover Stain=no sanding, period? Wipe down with TSP, caulk, and prime away? If so, this changes my whole outlook.

[Fox466]

So your saying Cover Stain=no sanding, period? Wipe down with TSP, caulk, and prime away? If so, this changes my whole outlook.


In paint you have two types of bonding. The first is a physical bond, which requires the primer/paint to lock into scratches or grooves in the substrate. The second is the chemical bond, which uses chemicals to 'melt' into the substrate. If the Cover Stain utilizes a chemical bond it is the route that I would take.

Just remember that a paint job is only as good as the prep work prior to the application. :cool:


<---While we're talking about our paint qualifications I did military specification paint application for ten years. I've painted countless components that went in the F-117A and multiple other military planes... :cool:

[BlackSnake1996]

So your saying Cover Stain=no sanding, period? Wipe down with TSP, caulk, and prime away? If so, this changes my whole outlook.
10-4. Like you just said, make sure the whole surface is clean of grease, wax, etc.

And one more hint. Prime and then caulk. Once you have primed the paneling, all the joints to be caulked are plainly visible. Makes it much easier.

Here is a little read-up on the Cover Stain.
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=12

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm taking off this Friday-Tuesday to tackle this job. The plan is to replace the crown molding and door trim, caulk, paint, and tape them off, then on to the paneling itself, TSP, 2 coats of Cover Stain, caulk, then 2 coats of Sherwin Williams Dover White. I'll try and get some before and after pics and let you guys know how it turns out.

[4EyedTurd]

There is some good information. Thanks guys, I'm planning on painting some paneling in the next week or two.

[Tyrone Biggums]

Done. Pics are up in new thread.