Golden Compass GTG

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Lets meet somewhere easy to find and all head out to see this thing. Maybe here (http://www.prestonwood.org/) ?

[Hollywood]

In. I'm going to see if I can round up some kids to take this too. It'll be my good deed of the year. Any of you guys want to bring some kids from your church, we highly encourage it.

[BrianC]

Why are you all so gung-ho about The Golden Compass? My wife and I researched this and apparently, this first movie is decent, and tends to keep religion out of the picture, for the most part. But, there are two more books after the first book, and they are adimently against God. In the third book, the story is blatantly telling people to go against God.

American Family Association is saying that the goal of this first movie is to get kids hooked on the story so they'll go read the books and get the anti-God message of the second and third books. Like I said, this first movie is supposed to be a good one, and keeps the religion out of it, to some degree...but watch out for the books and second and third movies. I won't give these people my money after finding out what the book trilogy is about.

[Hollywood]

Why are you all so gung-ho about The Golden Compass? My wife and I researched this and apparently, this first movie is decent, and tends to keep religion out of the picture, for the most part. But, there are two more books after the first book, and they are adimently against God. In the third book, the story is blatantly telling people to go against God.

American Family Association is saying that the goal of this first movie is to get kids hooked on the story so they'll go read the books and get the anti-God message of the second and third books. Like I said, this first movie is supposed to be a good one, and keeps the religion out of it, to some degree...but watch out for the books and second and third movies. I won't give these people my money after finding out what the book trilogy is about.

Whats your point? :confused:

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Why are you all so gung-ho about The Golden Compass? My wife and I researched this and apparently, this first movie is decent, and tends to keep religion out of the picture, for the most part. But, there are two more books after the first book, and they are adimently against God. In the third book, the story is blatantly telling people to go against God.

American Family Association is saying that the goal of this first movie is to get kids hooked on the story so they'll go read the books and get the anti-God message of the second and third books. Like I said, this first movie is supposed to be a good one, and keeps the religion out of it, to some degree...but watch out for the books and second and third movies. I won't give these people my money after finding out what the book trilogy is about.

I went to Chic-Fil-A the other day and my daughter got a Veggie Tales book in her kids meal. We went in there for some chicken.

[Denny]

I went to Chic-Fil-A the other day and my daughter got a Veggie Tales book in her kids meal. We went in there for some chicken.
Veggies > Chicken

Just sayin'...

[Chili]

Check this out.. You can create your own Daemon on the website.. This is awesome. I'm a Raccoon, what are you?

http://www.goldencompassmovie.com/?359799

:D

[BrianC]

Thought my point was obvious. That I won't give money to people trying to sneak anti-God rederick into movies.

In regard to Veggie Tales at Chick-Fil-A, that's their agenda. They openly say they're run by Christians and do not open on Sundays due to this fact. They aren't trying to hide the fact that they are Christian. This movie shows lots of flashy action and graphics to draw people and kids in, but never once are we told on the commercials that it's anti-God. I don't care for the deception.

If they would come out and say that, I'd have no problem with them showing this movie. None whatsoever. Because very few would go see it. And that's exactly why they won't advertise it's anti-God. Well, and the other reason is because they really are anti-God and don't want anyone to know that until they're sucked into the stories. It's either about money, anti-God, or both. Just wish they'd come out and say it is all.

[BLAKE]

Thought my point was obvious. That I won't give money to people trying to sneak anti-God rederick into movies.

In regard to Veggie Tales at Chick-Fil-A, that's their agenda. They openly say they're run by Christians and do not open on Sundays due to this fact. They aren't trying to hide the fact that they are Christian. This movie shows lots of flashy action and graphics to draw people and kids in, but never once are we told on the commercials that it's anti-God. I don't care for the deception.

If they would come out and say that, I'd have no problem with them showing this movie. None whatsoever. Because very few would go see it. And that's exactly why they won't advertise it's anti-God. Well, and the other reason is because they really are anti-God and don't want anyone to know that until they're sucked into the stories. It's either about money, anti-God, or both. Just wish they'd come out and say it is all.


Wait... wait. Did you really just say "rederick"?

[Denny]

Thought my point was obvious. That I won't give money to people trying to sneak anti-God rederick into movies.

In regard to Veggie Tales at Chick-Fil-A, that's their agenda. They openly say they're run by Christians and do not open on Sundays due to this fact. They aren't trying to hide the fact that they are Christian. This movie shows lots of flashy action and graphics to draw people and kids in, but never once are we told on the commercials that it's anti-God. I don't care for the deception.

If they would come out and say that, I'd have no problem with them showing this movie. None whatsoever. Because very few would go see it. And that's exactly why they won't advertise it's anti-God. Well, and the other reason is because they really are anti-God and don't want anyone to know that until they're sucked into the stories. It's either about money, anti-God, or both. Just wish they'd come out and say it is all.
Right. I have no problem if someone wants to speak out against God, just be open about it. The maker's were originally trying to sneak it in, but were called on it. Now they're more open about it AFTER the fact. What were they afraid of? God?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Thought my point was obvious. That I won't give money to people trying to sneak anti-God rederick into movies.

In regard to Veggie Tales at Chick-Fil-A, that's their agenda. They openly say they're run by Christians and do not open on Sundays due to this fact. They aren't trying to hide the fact that they are Christian. This movie shows lots of flashy action and graphics to draw people and kids in, but never once are we told on the commercials that it's anti-God. I don't care for the deception.

If they would come out and say that, I'd have no problem with them showing this movie. None whatsoever. Because very few would go see it. And that's exactly why they won't advertise it's anti-God. Well, and the other reason is because they really are anti-God and don't want anyone to know that until they're sucked into the stories. It's either about money, anti-God, or both. Just wish they'd come out and say it is all.

Well obviously you didn't see The Chronicles Of Narnia, because it never claimed to be Pro-god.

[Hollywood]

Check this out.. You can create your own D/emon on the website.. This is awesome. I'm a Raccoon, what are you?

http://www.goldencompassmovie.com/?359799

:D

Kick ass. I'm Amantha, one of the jackal daemons.

[Denny]

Well obviously you didn't see The Chronicles Of Narnia, because it never claimed to be Pro-god.
The book sold in the religion section of bookstores. :confused:

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Thought my point was obvious. That I won't give money to people trying to sneak anti-God rederick into movies.

In regard to Veggie Tales at Chick-Fil-A, that's their agenda. They openly say they're run by Christians and do not open on Sundays due to this fact. They aren't trying to hide the fact that they are Christian. This movie shows lots of flashy action and graphics to draw people and kids in, but never once are we told on the commercials that it's anti-God. I don't care for the deception.

If they would come out and say that, I'd have no problem with them showing this movie. None whatsoever. Because very few would go see it. And that's exactly why they won't advertise it's anti-God. Well, and the other reason is because they really are anti-God and don't want anyone to know that until they're sucked into the stories. It's either about money, anti-God, or both. Just wish they'd come out and say it is all.

So they sell christian chicken? I for one don't really care what religion someone is when I buy something from them, I just want some chicken, not some chicken with a side of guilt.

[Denny]

So they sell christian chicken? I for one don't really care what religion someone is when I buy something from them, I just want some chicken, not some chicken with a side of guilt.
Tough to swallow?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

The book sold in the religion section of bookstores. :confused:

The bookstore is on the other end of the mall from the theater.


In which section of the bookstore is the book that The Golden Compass is based on?

[Denny]

The bookstore is on the other end of the mall from the theater.


In which section of the bookstore is the book that The Golden Compass is based on?
Fuck if I know. I was just stating what I do know as a comment to what you posted.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Fuck if I know. I was just stating what I do know as a comment to what you posted.

What part of the movie trailer told me where to locate the book in the bookstore?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Check this out.. You can create your own Daemon on the website.. This is awesome. I'm a Raccoon, what are you?

http://www.goldencompassmovie.com/?359799

:D

the chimp lol

[Denny]

What part of the movie trailer told me where to locate the book in the bookstore?
The book was out well before the movie. I never saw a trailer. I finally saw the movie on DVD.

[Hollywood]

Tough to swallow?


No, more of a sharp pain in the ass cheek.

[BLAKE]

We're burying the lead here fellas. This guy seriously typed "rederick" when he meant "rhetoric". :confused:

Pandamonium! The dead rising from the grave! Dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

The book was out well before the movie. I never saw a trailer. I finally saw the movie on DVD.

I didn't read the book and my daughter couldn't read then. We saw a bazillion movie trailers for it though. That's why she wanted to see it. I guess I was tricked by those pro-god ad execs because they never said anything about it. They sucked me in with all the special effects and cool visuals.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

We're burying the lead here fellas. This guy seriously typed "rederick" when he meant "rhetoric". :confused:

Pandamonium! The dead rising from the grave! Dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

There are more important things to focus on this time.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

So uh, you guys coming to the GTG or not? Sheesh!

[Denny]

I didn't read the book and my daughter couldn't read then. We saw a bazillion movie trailers for it though. That's why she wanted to see it. I guess I was tricked by those pro-god ad execs because they never said anything about it. They sucked me in with all the special effects and cool visuals.
Did it make her become a Christian? I'm not sticking up for that movie, by any means. I was just stating how chickenshit it was for the Golden Compass makers. You can draw the same conclusion, if you want. Either way, it's chickenshit.

[flashstang04]

I went to Chic-Fil-A the other day and my daughter got a Veggie Tales book in her kids meal. We went in there for some chicken.


Then you shouldn't spend your money in an obvious Christian establishment that supports veggie tales and closes on Sundays.

On a side note..I hate all of you because you have chick fila and I don't

[flashstang04]

Well obviously you didn't see The Chronicles Of Narnia, because it never claimed to be Pro-god.

Anyone who is familiar with CS Lewis or Tolkien knows that they were both outspoken Chrisitans.

Lewis went so far as to include the Christ figure in this one. Aside from "Weep for Joy", most of his works were Christian in nature.


click this if you aren't familiar with the controversy...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58341

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Anyone who is familiar with CS Lewis or Tolkien knows that they were both outspoken Chrisitans.

Lewis went so far as to include the Christ figure in this one. Aside from "Weep for Joy", most of his works were Christian in nature.


click this if you aren't familiar with the controversy...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58341


um, wouldn't you have to be christian to care enough in the first place?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Did it make her become a Christian? I'm not sticking up for that movie, by any means. I was just stating how chickenshit it was for the Golden Compass makers. You can draw the same conclusion, if you want. Either way, it's chickenshit.


No, she didn't become christian. Would taking your kid to go see Golden Compass make them anti-god?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Then you shouldn't spend your money in an obvious Christian establishment that supports veggie tales and closes on Sundays.

On a side note..I hate all of you because you have chick fila and I don't

Like I said, I don't hold it against them that they are closed on Sundays, although the signs they have posted says they are closed on Sundays for family time, it says nothing about church or religion, but I guess that is neither here nor there. They also don't say anything to the effect of, "May god be with you" when I order my #4 with a large sweet tea. I order, they give it to me and normally all is good. I'll mention I am agnostic the next time I'm in there though, just to see what happens. It could be fun.

I won't stop going there because they are christian, more power to them. I will go there because I want a #4 with a large sweet tea. Maybe I should take a page out of the christian handbook by gathering up some friends and boycotting them because it's against what I believe. No, instead I'll continue to go there, politely ask them to turn down the christian tunes that are piped in, and give back any god propaganda that they see fit to give to my 6 year old daughter, and eat my #4 combo.

[BrianC]

Well obviously you didn't see The Chronicles Of Narnia, because it never claimed to be Pro-god.

That's because the Chronicals of Narnia were C.S. Lewis and everyone knows that they are Christian alegory... That's widely known. The Golden Compass is not a famous literary work like the Chronicals of Narnia.

[BrianC]

No, she didn't become christian. Would taking your kid to go see Golden Compass make them anti-god?

Of course not. It simply influences their decisions. They have to choose for themselves...

We are the sum total of all of our choices in regard to the events that happen in our life. The more input we have in any one direction, the more we are likely to choose that direction. For instance, if someone has never been taught about evolution, and someone suggests that everything was either created by God or evolved after the big bang, that person will choose God and creation, because they've been taught that, but haven't been taught evolution. They had more input for creation, and less for evolution. They chose the larger influence in their life.

Don't want this to get into evolution and creation, though. lol I knew a lot about evolution before I became a creationist. But for me, it wasn't necessarily about amount of influential information. It was about the quality of the information and the logical conclusions or research data and interpretation. Either way, you cannot believe in something you've never been taught about before, so how much you're influenced in one direction is important. We're responsible for our choices though.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

That's because the Chronicals of Narnia were C.S. Lewis and everyone knows that they are Christian alegory... That's widely known. The Golden Compass is not a famous literary work like the Chronicals of Narnia.

I beg to differ.

http://www.scholastic.co.uk/zone/book_philip-pullman-hdm-classic.htm


I didn't know anything about CS Lewis, I don't follow christian literature. To be honest, I don't follow much literature at all. It looked like a cool movie, so I took my daughter.

Golden Compass looks kinda cool, so I'll be taking her to see it as well.

[Pro88LX]

although the signs they have posted says they are closed on Sundays for family time, it says nothing about church or religion, but I guess that is neither here nor there.

it says they're closed to give the employees a chance to rest, spend time with family and friends, and worship if they chose to do so.

[Phillystang]

never heard about it

[Denny]

No, she didn't become christian. Would taking your kid to go see Golden Compass make them anti-god?
No, but I'm not the one making a dog and pony show of either movie.

[Fastback]

So Anubis and ClockWrk, just why are you in the theology forum hatin and everything like that? What is your beef with us?

[Denny]

So Anubis and ClockWrk, just why are you in the theology forum hatin and everything like that? What is your beef with us?
No beef, just gettin' their kicks from watching some believers get pissed... some of them. Call it a hobby.

[Fastback]

No beef, just gettin' their kicks from watching some believers get pissed... some of them. Call it a hobby.

Right on.... poopnuts. It's like we got trick-or-treaters except they were just tricks. LOL

[Chili]

So Anubis and ClockWrk, just why are you in the theology forum hatin and everything like that? What is your beef with us?

From Monsoon's Welcome: Guidelines thread:

I don't just want believers in here....that would get really boring. :)

:D

[Fastback]

Right. I'm just callin it as I see it....

[Chili]

Right. I'm just callin it as I see it....

Calling what like you see it? I'm confused now..

It's called busting chops man. Don't get too tied to the downtrodden victim role, it's really not a big deal.

[Brain_Mach1]

Wow! I figured that everyone would be lining up to go see Golden Compass and buy the books. After all the evil organization is The Magisterium.

There is plenty of Christian literature which speaks against a group called the Magisterium which has members called Bishops.

Pullman claimed that his main issue is actually those who, "misuse religion, or any other kind of doctrine with a holy book" with the purpose tp "dominate and supress human freedoms."

As Hollywood has pointed out in many other posts, the problem is religion. Once we remove religion such as, Pol Pot and Stalin did, we can all live in peace. (Have you researched those non-religious regimes yet Hollywood?) :D

[Fastback]

Calling what like you see it? I'm confused now..

It's called busting chops man. Don't get too tied to the downtrodden victim role, it's really not a big deal.

Yes, you are confused bc I am no victim. I'm just sayin' these guys are only here to bust chops. They have no contribution. That is the difference between what you posted about wanting non-Christians in here. Yes, they are wanted but so they can contribute... not just to be hatin' . But you knew that.

[flashstang04]

Wow! I figured that everyone would be lining up to go see Golden Compass and buy the books. After all the evil organization is The Magisterium.

There is plenty of Christian literature which speaks against a group called the Magisterium which has members called Bishops.

Pullman claimed that his main issue is actually those who, "misuse religion, or any other kind of doctrine with a holy book" with the purpose tp "dominate and supress human freedoms."

As Hollywood has pointed out in many other posts, the problem is religion. Once we remove religion such as, Pol Pot and Stalin did, we can all live in peace. (Have you researched those non-religious regimes yet Hollywood?) :D


Here are a couple of the major issues Brian: (from the site I linked)

Pullman represents God as a decrepit and perverse angel in his novels, who captures the dead in a "prison camp" afterlife. As one fallen angel tells one of the novel's young heroes:

The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty – those were all names he gave himself. He was never the creator. He was an angel like ourselves – the first angel, true, the most powerful, but he was formed of Dust as we are, and Dust is only a name for what happens when matter begins to understand itself.

-and-



One heroine in the story who turns from the Church did so when she realized "there wasn't any God at all and … the Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, that's all." Instead, the Church just kept her from finding love, thinking freely and pursuing bodily pleasures like sex. As she notes:

"I'd made myself believe that I was fine and happy and fulfilled on my own without the love of anyone else." Later, she says, "I knew what I should think: it was whatever the Church taught me to think. … So I never had to think about [science] for myself."

[Brain_Mach1]

I got it, I was being sarcastic since he attaks the Catholic Church when attacking Christianity. It is easier to go after the largest most visible target when attacking Christianity.

Changing the name of the evil group from The Church to The Magisterium is the perfect example.

I find it interesting that the discussion about the Golden Compass gets more attention than Bella the Movie. Bella is about living Christianity, a positive message. :confused:

Threads like this tell a lot about what people are against, but what are they for?

The fact is the Golden Compass will get more money from Americans than movies like Bella will, but we will complain about the lack of Christian movies?

Let's put our money where our hearts truly are.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

This is the Theology Forum, not the christian forum, not the catholic forum. As far as I know agnosticism is considered to be under the theology umbrella.
Until you can convince me otherwise, I will continue to post in the Theology Forum, and apparently you will continue to have your panties wadded.

It seems to me that you guys can't even agree on views when you are on the same side, let alone with someone not on your team.





Denny, my whole point is that if there can be a Narnia movie about god and whatnot, why can't there be a similar movie showing the other side without it being a problem? I must have missed all the atheist and agnostic protests during the release of Narnia.:rolleyes:

I also recall another fictional movie not to long ago starring Tom Hanks that was highly protested by the religious folks. Hell, that just made me want to see it more.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

I find it interesting that the discussion about the Golden Compass gets more attention than Bella the Movie. Bella is about living Christianity, a positive message. :confused:

Threads like this tell a lot about what people are against, but what are they for?

The fact is the Golden Compass will get more money from Americans than movies like Bella will, but we will complain about the lack of Christian movies?

Let's put our money where our hearts truly are.

Of course it's getting more attention, it is being protested by religious groups, having emails spread from person to person saying how "bad" the movie is and getting people all worked up about it, just like Da Vinci Code and Last Temptation of Christ (which I haven't seen).



Complaining about the lack of christian movies? I'm complaining that there aren't enough movies that display the alternative. It's unfortunate that the church is so biased that they can't stand to have those movies even exist without causing a ruckus.

[FSON]

Oh you Masons...

[flashstang04]

Of course it's getting more attention, it is being protested by religious groups, having emails spread from person to person saying how "bad" the movie is and getting people all worked up about it, just like Da Vinci Code and Last Temptation of Christ (which I haven't seen).



Complaining about the lack of christian movies? I'm complaining that there aren't enough movies that display the alternative. It's unfortunate that the church is so biased that they can't stand to have those movies even exist without causing a ruckus.


Question.... if there was a movie that was very beautiful in it's scenery and character effects, but it was overtly about Satanism...seeing that you don't believe, would you take your kids to it? It would considered an alternative view. So would you in good conscious take your kids to see it? Let's say the "hero" of the film is named "Satan", and he is portrayed in a good light. After all, if it is all rubbish...why not? As long as it entertains us right?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Question.... if there was a movie that was very beautiful in it's scenery and character effects, but it was overtly about Satanism...seeing that you don't believe, would you take your kids to it? It would considered an alternative view. So would you in good conscious take your kids to see it? Let's say the "hero" of the film is named "Satan", and he is portrayed in a good light. After all, if it is all rubbish...why not? As long as it entertains us right?


Is it 'PG', 'PG-13' or 'R'?

[Fastback]

This is the Theology Forum, not the christian forum, not the catholic forum. As far as I know agnosticism is considered to be under the theology umbrella.
Until you can convince me otherwise, I will continue to post in the Theology Forum, and apparently you will continue to have your panties wadded.



I just quoted post #48.
Go back and read post #45 Clockwrk
I never said you shouldn't post in here. I merely said you were here to bust our chops. Your first posts were in that vein. I asked you and Anubis Hollywood what's your beef with us? Now you accuse me of having my panties in a wad? :confused: BTW it is impossible for you to wad my panties, so you don't need to worry about that. ;)

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

I just quoted post #48.
Go back and read post #45 Clockwrk
I never said you shouldn't post in here. I merely said you were here to bust our chops. Your first posts were in that vein. I asked you and Anubis Hollywood what's your beef with us? Now you accuse me of having my panties in a wad? :confused: BTW it is impossible for you to wad my panties, so you don't need to worry about that. ;)

I don't have a 'beef'

[flashstang04]

Rated PG

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Rated PG

Yep, I'd take her, as long as it's something she wanted to see. I wouldn't drag her there if it was a movie I wanted to see.

[Brain_Mach1]

This is the Theology Forum, not the christian forum, not the catholic forum. As far as I know agnosticism is considered to be under the theology umbrella.
Until you can convince me otherwise, I will continue to post in the Theology Forum, and apparently you will continue to have your panties wadded.

It seems to me that you guys can't even agree on views when you are on the same side, let alone with someone not on your team.

My panties are not in a bind. Your point is my point. If Christians believed what they claim and this nation is a majority Christian nation, Bella would make millions while Golden Compass would lose money.

A lot of people on this forum are more anti.... instead of pro....

[Hollywood]

Wow! I figured that everyone would be lining up to go see Golden Compass and buy the books. After all the evil organization is The Magisterium.

There is plenty of Christian literature which speaks against a group called the Magisterium which has members called Bishops.

Pullman claimed that his main issue is actually those who, "misuse religion, or any other kind of doctrine with a holy book" with the purpose tp "dominate and supress human freedoms."

As Hollywood has pointed out in many other posts, the problem is religion. Once we remove religion such as, Pol Pot and Stalin did, we can all live in peace. (Have you researched those non-religious regimes yet Hollywood?) :D

Yep, and the murderous Christian regimes outnumber the murderous atheist regimes by a landslide.
If i've gotten to you already, then it's a good thing you weren't in here in 04 and 05 when I was in here daily trying to get you guys to think for yourself.

And like Tim said, this isn't the christian forum, its the theology forum. I can get you a link to Websters online dictionary if necessary. :)

[Brain_Mach1]

Yep, and the murderous Christian regimes outnumber the murderous atheist regimes by a landslide.
If i've gotten to you already, then it's a good thing you weren't in here in 04 and 05 when I was in here daily trying to get you guys to think for yourself.

And like Tim said, this isn't the christian forum, its the theology forum. I can get you a link to Websters online dictionary if necessary. :)

I was here back then and I am still waiting for you to study about the REAL deadly regimes or did Christians fake the Pol Pot, Hitlers, Stalins, Sadam, etc. :rolleyes:

the fact is you are the one who can't think for himself. The data does not support your claims. Care to discuss Rwanda or even the American Indian?

You name says it all Hollywood, the land of movie fiction.....

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

I was here back then and I am still waiting for you to study about the REAL deadly regimes or did Christians fake the Pol Pot, Hitlers, Stalins, Sadam, etc. :rolleyes:

the fact is you are the one who can't think for himself. The data does not support your claims. Care to discuss Rwanda or even the American Indian?

You name says it all Hollywood, the land of movie fiction.....

Who said this?

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

[Hollywood]

I was here back then and I am still waiting for you to study about the REAL deadly regimes or did Christians fake the Pol Pot, Hitlers, Stalins, Sadam, etc. :rolleyes:

the fact is you are the one who can't think for himself. The data does not support your claims. Care to discuss Rwanda or even the American Indian?

You name says it all Hollywood, the land of movie fiction.....

Oh, so the The Crusades weren't deadly? The innocent woman burned at the stake during the Salem Witch Trials weren't deadly? The KKK? Roman Emperor Constantine in the 4th century? Papal, Roman, and Spanish Inquisitions? Go back to your glass house and attend you bullshit hypocritical church every Sunday and pretend that atheist are the ones committing all the crimes. I can throw all the numbers in the world at you about all them murders christians have committed, but you are going to continue to believe the way you do because you have been brainwashed by christianity. Doesn't it say in the new testament that God ordered the Israelites to slaughter whole nations several times? Often, the Israelites obeyed, and destroyed every city, every man, woman, and child, and sometimes even left no living thing alive, not even livestock? "But uh but uh but uh..."


Pssst....Hussein wasn't an atheist.

American Indians? I believe Christian white males slaughtered them shortly after invading their homeland, now called the United States of America. Remember that? Whoops, thanks for bringing it up, I had forgotten all about that one.

Rwanda? I guess the American Civil War is the work of Atheist seeing how you are pinning Rwanda's ordeal on Atheist. That unorganized chaotic over throw of the government is hardly a good example in your favor. Next!

How about some current Christian hate mongers?

Randall Terry , founder of Operation Rescue:
“I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian Nation. We have a Biblical duty; we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism. ”

Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority: “Just give me the Supreme Court.”

Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition:
“I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know till election night.”

Pat Robertson, GOP presidential candidate, 1988:
“When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no more satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more abortion on demand, and no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not allow anyone to practice it. ”

The KKK is still a christian organization.


Hows that for research?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

http://www.strivingafterwind.com/VIFL/theworm/9werd.jpg

[Denny]

Denny, my whole point is that if there can be a Narnia movie about god and whatnot, why can't there be a similar movie showing the other side without it being a problem? I must have missed all the atheist and agnostic protests during the release of Narnia.:rolleyes:

I also recall another fictional movie not to long ago starring Tom Hanks that was highly protested by the religious folks. Hell, that just made me want to see it more.
Are you kidding me?!?! Narnia got TONS of opposition!

[Fastback]

Oh, so the The Crusades weren't deadly? The innocent woman burned at the stake during the Salem Witch Trials weren't deadly? The KKK? Roman Emperor Constantine in the 4th century? Papal, Roman, and Spanish Inquisitions? Go back to your glass house and attend you bullshit hypocritical church every Sunday and pretend that atheist are the ones committing all the crimes. I can throw all the numbers in the world at you about all them murders christians have committed, but you are going to continue to believe the way you do because you have been brainwashed by christianity. Doesn't it say in the new testament that God ordered the Israelites to slaughter whole nations several times? Often, the Israelites obeyed, and destroyed every city, every man, woman, and child, and sometimes even left no living thing alive, not even livestock? "But uh but uh but uh..."


Pssst....Hussein wasn't an atheist.

American Indians? I believe Christian white males slaughtered them shortly after invading their homeland, now called the United States of America. Remember that? Whoops, thanks for bringing it up, I had forgotten all about that one.

Rwanda? I guess the American Civil War is the work of Atheist seeing how you are pinning Rwanda's ordeal on Atheist. That unorganized chaotic over throw of the government is hardly a good example in your favor. Next!

How about some current Christian hate mongers?

Randall Terry , founder of Operation Rescue:
“I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian Nation. We have a Biblical duty; we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism. ”

Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority: “Just give me the Supreme Court.”

Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition:
“I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know till election night.”

Pat Robertson, GOP presidential candidate, 1988:
“When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no more satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more abortion on demand, and no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not allow anyone to practice it. ”

The KKK is still a christian organization.


Hows that for research?

You will always find bad apples to spoil the barrel, such is humanity (fallen world). The Crusades were not in keeping with the Bible. I am no Islam expert, but from what I understand their current Jihad is in keeping with the Qur'an. Many Muslims claim that their's is a religion of peace, though.
You are right Anubis Hollywood, many so-called Christians have done terrible things. Personally, I have often wondered if they really were Christians.

[Hollywood]

You will always find bad apples to spoil the barrel, such is humanity (fallen world). The Crusades were not in keeping with the Bible. I am no Islam expert, but from what I understand their current Jihad is in keeping with the Qur'an. Many Muslims claim that their's is a religion of peace, though.
You are right Anubis Hollywood, many so-called Christians have done terrible things. Personally, I have often wondered if they really were Christians.


I agree that not all christians are bad over zealous nut jobs. But for us to pretend that they don't exist and that christianity doesn't hold the potential for more incidents like the previous ones mentioned, leaves us open to the aformentioned incidents and the more common ones like 9-11 where terrorisism and other murderours acts are carried out in the name of religion.

[Fastback]

I agree that not all _____________ are bad over zealous nut jobs. But for us to pretend that they don't exist and that christianity doesn't hold the potential for more incidents like the previous ones mentioned, leaves us open to the aformentioned incidents and the more common ones like 9-11 where terrorisism and other murderours acts are carried out in the name of religion.

Well, I still see bias in your view. I don't think Christians are any worse than anyone else. I mean reread your first sentence up there and insert words like "black", "white", "Mexican". See where I am coming from? Most Christians I know just like most _________s I know are not bad overzealous nut jobs. I guess we could go look at prison percentages or something....oh, well. I just think that's prejudiced. So what is your beef?

[Hollywood]

Well, I still see bias in your view. I don't think Christians are any worse than anyone else. I mean reread your first sentence up there and insert words like "black", "white", "Mexican". See where I am coming from? Most Christians I know just like most _________s I know are not bad overzealous nut jobs. I guess we could go look at prison percentages or something....oh, well. I just think that's prejudiced. So what is your beef?

My beef is the christian front wanting to control this nation. I don't care what religion you follow, what god you pray to, etc. My problem is you telling me how to live my life, telling me and my neighbor what we can and can't do when it doesn't concern you. Thats the problem with christianity, trying to change laws and mold this nation into a country that is strictly christian and conforms to its laws basically saying "fuck what you believe in, its our way or the highway". This country was founded on religious freedom. We came here to escape religious persecution, yet from the moment we have arrived, non-christians have been persecuted. I say live and let live. You're right it's no different than other prejudices. If you are wiccan, atheist, etc, its pretty much in your best interest to not tell anyone otherwise you will be looked down upon, discriminated against, etc.

[Brain_Mach1]

"It is not that Christianity was tried and found lacking, but that it was found too difficult and not tried."

The above examples imply that the crimes would not have been committed without religion when religious reforms from those event led us to what we have today.

Treatment of American Indians led Fransiscans to create the concept of Human Rights (didn't exist before). I through out the American Indian so that I could ask you to visit the missions in San Antonio and learn about the missions. My wife thought the missions enslaved the indians. The real history in not from the movies. "White man" is not religion I have ever heard of.

The Spanish Inquisition led the Italian Inquisition to develop the concept of public defender. (Didn't have it before, not American or English).

Religious created the Hospital and Educational systems we have.

Give examples of evil and the Christians developed cures that did not exist before.

[Fastback]

My beef is the christian front wanting to control this nation. I don't care what religion you follow, what god you pray to, etc. My problem is you telling me how to live my life, telling me and my neighbor what we can and can't do when it doesn't concern you. Thats the problem with christianity, trying to change laws and mold this nation into a country that is strictly christian and conforms to its laws basically saying "fuck what you believe in, its our way or the highway". This country was founded on religious freedom. We came here to escape religious persecution, yet from the moment we have arrived, non-christians have been persecuted. I say live and let live. You're right it's no different than other prejudices. If you are wiccan, atheist, etc, its pretty much in your best interest to not tell anyone otherwise you will be looked down upon, discriminated against, etc.

Is there something in particular that you are referring to that has been taken away from you or your neighbor? I am seriously trying to fully understand what has happened to you to make you blame Christians in particular and not just "democrats" or "republicans". See what I mean? I mean I don't want to get redundant here talking about how this is a Christian nation, founded by Pilgrims etc. That is not the row to hoe here. I want to know what is your beef like IE, "I want porn on channel 4 during primetime but the christian agenda ruined it for me. " Perhaps that is a poor example, but I think you see what I mean.

[flashstang04]

Is there something in particular that you are referring to that has been taken away from you or your neighbor? I am seriously trying to fully understand what has happened to you to make you blame Christians in particular and not just "democrats" or "republicans". See what I mean? I mean I don't want to get redundant here talking about how this is a Christian nation, founded by Pilgrims etc. That is not the row to hoe here. I want to know what is your beef like IE, "I want porn on channel 4 during primetime but the christian agenda ruined it for me. " Perhaps that is a poor example, but I think you see what I mean.

It's the popular thing to do...or didn't you know..... :cool:

[Hollywood]

"It is not that Christianity was tried and found lacking, but that it was found too difficult and not tried."

The above examples imply that the crimes would not have been committed without religion when religious reforms from those event led us to what we have today.

Treatment of American Indians led Fransiscans to create the concept of Human Rights (didn't exist before). I through out the American Indian so that I could ask you to visit the missions in San Antonio and learn about the missions. My wife thought the missions enslaved the indians. The real history in not from the movies. "White man" is not religion I have ever heard of.

The Spanish Inquisition led the Italian Inquisition to develop the concept of public defender. (Didn't have it before, not American or English).

Religious created the Hospital and Educational systems we have.

Give examples of evil and the Christians developed cures that did not exist before.

White Man is not a religion. White christian males conquered and slaughtered indians.

I like how you try and twist the spanish inquisition into this feel good story.
These institutions were established and perpetuated by the Roman Catholic Church to eliminate dissenters, apostates, heretics, Jews, witches and anyone out of favor with church authorities. Bottom line.


I've already listed examples of evil. Did you not read my previous post?

[Hollywood]

Is there something in particular that you are referring to that has been taken away from you or your neighbor? I am seriously trying to fully understand what has happened to you to make you blame Christians in particular and not just "democrats" or "republicans". See what I mean? I mean I don't want to get redundant here talking about how this is a Christian nation, founded by Pilgrims etc. That is not the row to hoe here. I want to know what is your beef like IE, "I want porn on channel 4 during primetime but the christian agenda ruined it for me. " Perhaps that is a poor example, but I think you see what I mean.


Do you watch the news? :confused: Dry counties? Alcohol not allowed to be sold on a Sunday? Why is one particular religion have the right to have their god on all the money, on every broadcast? The calling for Harry Potter movies to be banned because they are anti-christian? Abortion? And basically attempting to have anything they believe is wrong turned into federal law? Christians trying to force religion in school? need I go on? Because I can, the list is long.

[Fastback]

Do you watch the news? :confused: Dry counties? Alcohol not allowed to be sold on a Sunday? Why is one particular religion have the right to have their god on all the money, on every broadcast? The calling for Harry Potter movies to be banned because they are anti-christian? Abortion? And basically attempting to have anything they believe is wrong turned into federal law? Christians trying to force religion in school? need I go on? Because I can, the list is long.

Yeah, I see. This is a two way street, though. I guess I could be extreme here for emphasis. Let's pretend that "good" goes away. Now you can indulge in all that stuff. Drugs, sex, alcohol, etc. in the park during the day naked. Let's call it Hampsterdam. See where I am going? Is that where you want to live and if not why?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Are you kidding me?!?! Narnia got TONS of opposition!

Define 'TONS'. I googled it and didn't find any indication it was being opposed by atheists. I may have overlooked them however, would you be so kind as to find a few? I won't ask you to find a 'TON'. Just a few. For every one you find, I'll find 5 more for the GC movie.

[Hollywood]

Yeah, I see. This is a two way street, though. I guess I could be extreme here for emphasis. Let's pretend that "good" goes away. Now you can indulge in all that stuff. Drugs, sex, alcohol, etc. in the park during the day naked. Let's call it Hampsterdam. See where I am going? Is that where you want to live and if not why?


Fastback, you assume that because i'm an atheist that I have no morals or that I want an all out, anything goes society. I'm not calling for "sex anywhere", "cocaine at work" etc type things. The things that christians are fighting for aren't the reason for the decay of society. Harry Potter? Why not spend all that time, money and energy in helping our law enforcement put a choke hold on gang violence instead of worrying about converting every non-believer into a believer. Or worrying about a movie. Or stopping people from buying alcohol on a Sunday so they just go out to a bar and drink and drive instead.

[Fastback]

Fastback, you assume that because i'm an atheist that I have no morals or that I want an all out, anything goes society. I'm not calling for "sex anywhere", "cocaine at work" etc type things. The things that christians are fighting for aren't the reason for the decay of society. Harry Potter? Why not spend all that time, money and energy in helping our law enforcement put a choke hold on gang violence instead of worrying about converting every non-believer into a believer. Or worrying about a movie. Or stopping people from buying alcohol on a Sunday so they just go out to a bar and drink and drive instead.

Actually, Hollywood, I am trying to point out that you have an idea about what you want society to be, just like the junky in the park that can't afford dope and wishes it was legal so he could get some cheaper etc....Where do we draw the line? The line
Have we all not benefitted as well? Should we legalize this but not that?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Since when do you have to believe in god to know right from wrong?

FWIW I was raised protestant until I was about 17.

[flashstang04]

Since when do you have to believe in god to know right from wrong?

FWIW I was raised protestant until I was about 17.


Where did the standards of right and wrong come from? Is man "basically good"?

[Brain_Mach1]

Do you watch the news? :confused: Dry counties? Alcohol not allowed to be sold on a Sunday? Why is one particular religion have the right to have their god on all the money, on every broadcast? The calling for Harry Potter movies to be banned because they are anti-christian? Abortion? And basically attempting to have anything they believe is wrong turned into federal law? Christians trying to force religion in school? need I go on? Because I can, the list is long.
Finding cures for worldly evils is twisting the issue? Twisting issues 180 degrees! Let's cure more ills.

The truth is that the biggest killers have always been athiests regimes like Pol Pot and Stalin. I read your post, I just don't believe you have read about the atheistic regimes in our world.

[Hollywood]

Finding cures for worldly evils is twisting the issue? Twisting issues 180 degrees! Let's cure more ills.

The truth is that the biggest killers have always been athiests regimes like Pol Pot and Stalin. I read your post, I just don't believe you have read about the atheistic regimes in our world.


What i've learned from you today: Killling millions of people for believing differently than you is ok, because it was the only way we'd discover Public Defendants, hospitals and porta potties.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Where did the standards of right and wrong come from? Is man "basically good"?

Are you implying that people only know it's wrong to kill other people because it says so in the bible?

[flashstang04]

Are you implying that people only know it's wrong to kill other people because it says so in the bible?


Nope, nice try, but I am asking a simple question...

Disregard the bible if you want for the answer, in fact, many religions are against murder....so again, are humans basically good? If not where does right and wrong come from?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Nope, nice try, but I am asking a simple question...

Disregard the bible if you want for the answer, in fact, many religions are against murder....so again, are humans basically good? If not where does right and wrong come from?

To be honest, I don't know where it comes from. I know what's right, and I know what's wrong. Common sense?

I don't know, and I'm not being a smart ass, I just know it's not okay to shoot a stranger in the face for no reason. I also know (or feel) it's okay to shoot a stranger in the face if he is threatening my or my family's life.

[Fastback]

Clkwrk, Did you say you were agnostic, meaning that you are not sure there is a God but you are not sure there isn't either?

[flashstang04]

To be honest, I don't know where it comes from. I know what's right, and I know what's wrong. Common sense?

I don't know, and I'm not being a smart ass, I just know it's not okay to shoot a stranger in the face for no reason. I also know (or feel) it's okay to shoot a stranger in the face if he is threatening my or my family's life.


Thanks for answering..

and aside from the Source of knowledge, I agree with you

[Muffrazr]

Nope, nice try, but I am asking a simple question...

Disregard the bible if you want for the answer, in fact, many religions are against murder....so again, are humans basically good? If not where does right and wrong come from?


There was a study using very young children to see what kind of morals they had. This was on Good Morning America a few months ago. It was found that, for the most part, yes man is good. However, there are times when "wiring" is different in one individual, and they seem to gravitate towards evil no matter what you do to teach them different. Who knows why it happens, but it happens.

When I used the word wiring, I was referencing the psychologists use of the word. The individuals that seemed to be evil had an imbalance of chemicals in their brain and used different parts of the brain for decision making than the average human.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Clkwrk, Did you say you were agnostic, meaning that you are not sure there is a God but you are not sure there isn't either?

I'd say that I am agnostic in the way that the muslims sure think they are right; the protestants sure think they are right; the catholics sure think they are right; the atheists sure think they are right; and well, they all can't be right.

I believe in common sense and science. I also believe that when your heart stops beating you don't have anything else to worry about, you're dead.

[Fastback]

I'd say that I am agnostic in the way that the muslims sure think they are right; the protestants sure think they are right; the catholics sure think they are right; the atheists sure think they are right; and well, they all can't be right.

I believe in common sense and science. I also believe that when your heart stops beating you don't have anything else to worry about, you're dead.

Choices, choices, daunting isn't it? So you are, by definition, atheist.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Choices, choices, daunting isn't it? So you are, by definition, atheist.

Choices? maybe that's the issue. Did you 'choose' the religion you ended up with? I guess I didn't. I have my own beliefs and know right from wrong and never made a 'choice'. I believe what I believe.

I've always considered myself to be agnostic, guess I was wrong. I mean I suppose there could be a god, but I could also win the texas lottery. I give the same odds on either.

[Fastback]

Choices? maybe that's the issue. Did you 'choose' the religion you ended up with? I guess I didn't. I have my own beliefs and know right from wrong and never made a 'choice'. I believe what I believe.

I've always considered myself to be agnostic, guess I was wrong. I mean I suppose there could be a god, but I could also win the texas lottery. I give the same odds on either.

I am not telling you this because I am prideful or self-righteous: there is a God. I urge you to "look for Him" or, what I really mean is allow Him to be found. I could tell you stories but you would just dismiss them, maybe you wouldn't, but I think you are "in your head" so you probably would. I will tell you this: I first had faith.

[flashstang04]

God found me when He was the LAST!!! thing I was looking for....

[Fastback]

God found me when He was the LAST!!! thing I was looking for....

Tell us!

[flashstang04]

Tell us!


It is all on that other thread where I was talking about some of the occult things I was involved in....

[Brain_Mach1]

What i've learned from you today: Killling millions of people for believing differently than you is ok, because it was the only way we'd discover Public Defendants, hospitals and porta potties.

Pol Pot and Stalin killed millions. Try researching the Soviet Block and Communist China They are your Athiestic governments.

Nazis killed millions. They produced their own religion. The Capicians worked to save indians from the Spanish (visit at least one mission in San Antonio, it is part of Texas history).

Read a book instead of the internet.

[BrianC]

There was a study using very young children to see what kind of morals they had. This was on Good Morning America a few months ago. It was found that, for the most part, yes man is good. However, there are times when "wiring" is different in one individual, and they seem to gravitate towards evil no matter what you do to teach them different. Who knows why it happens, but it happens.

When I used the word wiring, I was referencing the psychologists use of the word. The individuals that seemed to be evil had an imbalance of chemicals in their brain and used different parts of the brain for decision making than the average human.

Actually, I can disprove this ridiculous Good Morning America "morals" study EXTREMELY easily. Watch this:

You do not have to teach your kids to be bad. They already know how to get into all kinds of trouble. You have to teach them to be good and moral, and it's not easy for the kids to do. Why? Because the Bible says that we are all born into the sin nature because sin is passed down through our father. And it's always easier to succomb to your true nature. Evil is EASY. Morality and goodness is not. And the only reason people even WANT to be good is because of the measure of faith everyone has in them that God put there. That's why you see really good people in this world who are not saved. They haven't gotten hard hearted toward that "faith" that makes them want to be good, and they haven't given into their sin nature.

The answer to where kids got their morality and wanting to be "good" from in that Good Morning America study is simple: Parents and TV and society here GENERALLY teaches us to strive to be good, not evil. At least, our definition of good and moral is what is generally conveyed. Kids here are tainted test subjects. I know, because my wife is a PhD student and is the head research coordinator for UTD Center for Brain Health in Dallas. She does studies on kids all the time. REAL studies, not this ridiculous stuff "Good Morning America" claims they did.

Untouched tribes would be the people to test, and even they are generally tainted by their parents and ancestoral history. When they find these tribes that are untouched by society, it's interesting because they have similar beliefs to the Jews. Back in 724BC, 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel were taken over by Assyria and dispersed into the nations. Somehow, I think some ended up in Africa. Why? Because they find tribes in Africa, untouched by society, and they call God "Y'wa." The Jews call God "Yahweh." This one tribe also had a 10 commandments written on a skin that was lost long ago when it was carelessly handled and destroyed by the dogs. They had a place where they gave sacrifices for sin, just like the Jews had. They were almost a mirror image of the Jews back before 724AD. Many tribes have similarities to these. How? Because most likely, they are the result of the 10 tribes getting dispersed into the nations of the world. Some must have found their way to Africa eventually. Oh, and even the Chinese have old Jewish traditions interlaced with their traditions. For instance, at a funeral, the Jews tear their garments and cover themselves with ash. So do the Chinese. Gee, where'd they get that from? lol

[BrianC]

Finding cures for worldly evils is twisting the issue? Twisting issues 180 degrees! Let's cure more ills.

The truth is that the biggest killers have always been athiests regimes like Pol Pot and Stalin. I read your post, I just don't believe you have read about the atheistic regimes in our world.

What about Hitler? He wasn't atheist. In fact, if you go to India, you'll find that the symbols on Hindu churches/temples is a Shwastica. And the Hindu black magicians where "SS" symbols on their sleeves and wear black. That's exactly what the Gistapo wore...SS symbols on their sleeves and black uniforms. They were the enforcers. There's a book written around the early 80's by David Henry, I think... and it shows how Hitler got a lot of his stuff from the religion of Hinduism, oddly enough.

Hitler was known for seeking out religious relics like the ark of the covenant and holy grail. The Indiana Jones stories were fictional, of course, but they were based in some facts about Hitler. Hitler was looking for black magic to rule the world. Why else go try to find the Ark of the Covenant? Because the Jews were told that when they carry the Ark of the Covenant onto the battlefield, they cannot lose a battle, because the Holy Spirit (God) is present in that Ark. And sure enough, they never lost a battle when it was present. Hitler wanted it for that reason.

Not all mass murder leaders were atheistic. Hitler believed in evolution and eugenics and tried to ethnically cleanse the world to accelorate evolution. Did you know that the U.S. was heavily involved in Eugenics back in the early 1900's? In fact, most political leaders and powerful people believed in Eugenics. So, in California, they were giving shots to people that were considered "stupid" so that they could not procreate and taint the human race with their stupidity. Hitler gave eugenics a bad name, so everyone shied away from it suddenly when they saw how distructive it was.

Read the appendix of the Michael Crighton book State of Fear. It's about the history of Eugenics. You would not believe who all was in the Eugenics crowd back in the early 1900's.

[Denny]

Define 'TONS'. I googled it and didn't find any indication it was being opposed by atheists. I may have overlooked them however, would you be so kind as to find a few? I won't ask you to find a 'TON'. Just a few. For every one you find, I'll find 5 more for the GC movie.
What point would that make?

Don't be the "Nu-uh, what about them?" kid. I view you above that.

[Muffrazr]

Actually, I can disprove this ridiculous Good Morning America "morals" study EXTREMELY easily. Watch this:

You do not have to teach your kids to be bad. They already know how to get into all kinds of trouble. You have to teach them to be good and moral, and it's not easy for the kids to do. Why? Because the Bible says that we are all born into the sin nature because sin is passed down through our father. And it's always easier to succomb to your true nature. Evil is EASY. Morality and goodness is not. And the only reason people even WANT to be good is because of the measure of faith everyone has in them that God put there. That's why you see really good people in this world who are not saved. They haven't gotten hard hearted toward that "faith" that makes them want to be good, and they haven't given into their sin nature.

The answer to where kids got their morality and wanting to be "good" from in that Good Morning America study is simple: Parents and TV and society here GENERALLY teaches us to strive to be good, not evil. At least, our definition of good and moral is what is generally conveyed. Kids here are tainted test subjects. I know, because my wife is a PhD student and is the head research coordinator for UTD Center for Brain Health in Dallas. She does studies on kids all the time. REAL studies, not this ridiculous stuff "Good Morning America" claims they did.

Untouched tribes would be the people to test, and even they are generally tainted by their parents and ancestoral history. When they find these tribes that are untouched by society, it's interesting because they have similar beliefs to the Jews. Back in 724BC, 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel were taken over by Assyria and dispersed into the nations. Somehow, I think some ended up in Africa. Why? Because they find tribes in Africa, untouched by society, and they call God "Y'wa." The Jews call God "Yahweh." This one tribe also had a 10 commandments written on a skin that was lost long ago when it was carelessly handled and destroyed by the dogs. They had a place where they gave sacrifices for sin, just like the Jews had. They were almost a mirror image of the Jews back before 724AD. Many tribes have similarities to these. How? Because most likely, they are the result of the 10 tribes getting dispersed into the nations of the world. Some must have found their way to Africa eventually. Oh, and even the Chinese have old Jewish traditions interlaced with their traditions. For instance, at a funeral, the Jews tear their garments and cover themselves with ash. So do the Chinese. Gee, where'd they get that from? lol

I won't be able to debate the findings of the children, as I don't know all the facts. I would imagine your wife would know a lot more than me. I just watched a television program. HEHEHE..I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I was under the impression the Chinese were around before Jews. I want to say by a few thousand years, but I don't know.

[flashstang04]

I think the point is that there are Jewish tribes literally EVERYWHERE..... it all depends on how far back you want to go.

[Muffrazr]

I think the point is that there are Jewish tribes literally EVERYWHERE..... it all depends on how far back you want to go.


I would imagine so. There are African descendants everywhere as a result of slave trading, which was prevalent with Jews at one time.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

What point would that make?

Don't be the "Nu-uh, what about them?" kid. I view you above that.

No sir, you claimed that there to be TONS of opposition to the Narnia movie, yet I could not find such examples. I'm merely saying that TONS of opposition of Narnia is false, and there there is TONS of opposition to the GC movie.

Who was opposing the Narnia movie anyway?

[Muffrazr]

I remember some opposition from someone, but I thought it was from a religious organisation. I am probably wrong about that, because when I watched the movie, I got the impression that the Lion was a governing power, not a higher power.

[Denny]

No sir, you claimed that there to be TONS of opposition to the Narnia movie, yet I could not find such examples. I'm merely saying that TONS of opposition of Narnia is false, and there there is TONS of opposition to the GC movie.

Who was opposing the Narnia movie anyway?
Methodists
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20051209/5799_Methodists_Warn_Against_Narnia_Commercializat ion.htm

Other authors
J.K. Rowling, author of the Harry Potter series (which has been noted by many critics as displaying some Narnian influence of its own), while commenting on Lewis's sentimentality about children, has said:

“There comes a point where Susan, who was the older girl, is lost to Narnia because she becomes interested in lipstick. She’s become irreligious basically because she found sex. I have a big problem with that”.

Atheist Authors
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2005/10/16/british_author_comes_out_against_narnia/3094/
Philip Pullman, an atheist, openly criticised The Chronicles of Narnia for what he described as religious propaganda. Speaking at the Guardian Hay Festival, Pullman said the Narnia stories were "monumentally disparaging of women", and has been quoted as saying, "I hate the Narnia books… with a passion…".

Pullman called the books "blatantly racist" and in an interview with The Observer, criticised the film adaptation of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by saying, "if the Disney corporation wants to market this film as a great Christian story, they'll just have to tell lies about it." He added, "it's not the presence of Christian doctrine I object to so much as the absence of Christian virtue," and that the books contained "a peevish blend of racist, misogynistic, and reactionary prejudice" (BBC News 2005).

[For Lewis] “Death is better than life; boys are better than girls; light-coloured people are better than dark-coloured people; and so on. There is no shortage of such nauseating drivel in Narnia, if you can face it” (Pullman 1998).

Christian Evangelism
In a 2005 article for The Guardian, Polly Toynbee also criticised the Narnia books, writing that "Lewis weaves his dreams to invade children's minds with Christian iconography that is part fairytale wonder and joy — but heavily laden with guilt, blame, sacrifice and a suffering that is dark with emotional sadism." Toynbee also stated that Narnia is populated with "worlds of obedient plebs and inferior folk eager to bend at the knee to any passing superior white persons," and that "Narnia is the perfect Republican, muscular Christianity for America — that warped, distorted neo-fascist strain that thinks might is proof of right" (Toynbee 2005).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1657942,00.html

Some of the criticism may be related to Narnia's Christian content. According to Jacobs, "Those who dislike Christianity itself can be far more harsh". Both Hensher and Pullman, whose criticism in regard to Narnia is expressed above, are atheists (Dodd 2004)[1].

Paganism
There are certain Christians and Christian organisations who feel that The Chronicles of Narnia promotes "soft sell paganism and occultism", because of the recurring pagan themes and the supposedly heretical depictions of Christ as an anthropomorphic lion. Satyrs, fauns, centaurs, dwarves, giants, and even the pagan god Bacchus and the Maenads are depicted in a positive light, although they are distinctly pagan motifs. Even an animistic "River god" is portrayed in a positive light (Chattaway 2005), (Berit 2005). According to Josh Hurst from Christianity Today, "not only was Lewis hesitant to call his books Christian allegory, but the stories borrow just as much from pagan mythology as they do the Bible" (Hurst 2005).

Arguments against these ideas include ideas such as "How are these mythological creatures defined as evil?" "Lewis used a lion because Jesus is sometimes called the Lion of the Tribe of Judah," and "Lewis simply redeemed these mythological images to tell uplifting tales." [citation needed]

Lewis himself believed that pagan mythology could act as a preparation for Christianity, both in history and in the imaginative life of an individual, and even suggested that modern man was in such a lamentable state that perhaps it was necessary "first to make people good pagans, and after that to make them Christians" (Lewis, Calabria & Moynihan 1998). He also argued that imaginative enjoyment of (as opposed to belief in) classical mythology has been a feature of Christian culture through much of its history, and that European literature has always had three themes: the natural, the supernatural believed to be true (Christianity) and the supernatural known to be imaginary (mythology). These are represented in the Chronicles by our universe, Aslan's mountain and the Narnia universe respectively, and his point is that the world of the mythological imagination is one of the many ways to Christian truth.


Narnia got it from both sides, but seemed to do OK. I didn't find out that it actually made it onto the big screen until I heard people bitching about it.

[Muffrazr]

I guess we have become a society of complainers. That movie got it from everyone for opposite reasaons. What a waste of a good moral dilemna to teach the children, regardless of it's influences.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

So you got: Judy Taylor, author of a Methodist newsletter; J.K Rowling, the author of Harry Potter; Philip Pullman, the author of the book that this whole thread is about; Polly Toynbee, a journalist for The Guardian, a British fish wrap; and christians with something to say about the movies pagan influences (when of course christian traditions are full of pagan history).



I'd hardly consider that TONS. Although I will give you credit for finding 6 ;)






[edited to remove 'bible']

[Denny]

So you got: Judy Taylor, author of a Methodist newsletter; J.K Rowling, the author of Harry Potter; Philip Pullman, the author of the book that this whole thread is about; Polly Toynbee, a journalist for The Guardian, a British fish wrap; and christians with something to say about the movies pagan influences (when of course the bible itself is full of pagan history).



I'd hardly consider that TONS. Although I will give you credit for finding 6 ;)

I won't ask you to find a 'TON'. Just a few.

I do what you ask and STILL get shit about it. :rolleyes:

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

I do what you ask and STILL get shit about it. :rolleyes:

I gave you credit, what do you want?

I was thinking you'd find examples of groups of people, not a couple of columnists and a pair of authors, that's all.

kinda like examples of chain emails sent to people telling them that the movie is bad or examples of people picketing the movie theater with cool signs with funny sayings like "The wardrobe has skeletons in it!!" or something. :D

[flashstang04]

(when of course the bible itself is full of pagan history).)


you should start a new thread on this.....

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

you should start a new thread on this.....


or you could use the 'search' button ;)

[Denny]

I gave you credit, what do you want?

I was thinking you'd find examples of groups of people, not a couple of columnists and a pair of authors, that's all.

kinda like examples of chain emails sent to people telling them that the movie is bad or examples of people picketing the movie theater with cool signs with funny sayings like "The wardrobe has skeletons in it!!" or something. :D
You'll have to take into consideration that all the Narnia hype has calmed and the fact that it's old news. Your precious masterpiece is at the top of it's hype.

[flashstang04]

or you could use the 'search' button ;)

No, digging up old threads is not a hobby of mine. It would be so much easier to start a new one. Oh well then.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

You'll have to take into consideration that all the Narnia hype has calmed and the fact that it's old news. Your precious masterpiece is at the top of it's hype.

So all the websites and blogs were removed from the internet?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

No, digging up old threads is not a hobby of mine. It would be so much easier to start a new one. Oh well then.

just do a search for 'bible AND pagan' You may be surprised.

Here is a sample, as quoted from BrianC:

"Most Christian holidays come from Catholic roots, and the Catholics get much of their traditions and symbols from Pagan traditions, oddly enough....."

[Denny]

So all the websites and blogs were removed from the internet?
Doubtful, just not that high on the google screen anymore. ;)

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Doubtful, just not that high on the google screen anymore. ;)

Heh, it's cool.

Me 1
you 0


LOL

[Denny]

Heh, it's cool.

Me 1
you 0


LOL
If it makes you sleep better tonight...

[flashstang04]

just do a search for 'bible AND pagan' You may be surprised.

Here is a sample, as quoted from BrianC:

"Most Christian holidays come from Catholic roots, and the Catholics get much of their traditions and symbols from Pagan traditions, oddly enough....."


That is exactly right, and just what I thought you would say.... to clarify....

YES, there was much pagan influence on the church after the 4th century from Rome, But that is not what you said...

"the bible itself is full of pagan history"

This is what I want you to show me.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

That is exactly right, and just what I thought you would say.... to clarify....

YES, there was much pagan influence on the church after the 4th century from Rome, But that is not what you said...

"the bible itself is full of pagan history"

This is what I want you to show me.

Hold on a second.

Christian holidays are based on catholic beliefs, and catholic beliefs are founded in pagan tradition. We agree on that hopefully.

So a time line would look something like this:

pagan traditions>catholic beliefs>christian holidays.

The bible is what christians and catholics use as a 'guide' of sorts. Does this 'guide' not speak of any symbols or traditions that are pagan in origin?

[flashstang04]

Hold on a second.

Christian holidays are based on catholic beliefs, and catholic beliefs are founded in pagan tradition. We agree on that hopefully.

So a time line would look something like this:

pagan traditions>catholic beliefs>christian holidays.

The bible is what christians and catholics use as a 'guide' of sorts. Does this 'guide' not speak of any symbols or traditions that are pagan in origin?


Your first point we agree on

but the second...Errr, no.

There is no mention in the bible of a "christmas tree", nor a giant bunny oddly enough....

There were Hebrew traditions, but up until the 4th century, there were NO biblical traditions based on pagan rituals. The only reason Constantine did it in the first place was so that he could influence religion on pagans.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Your first point we agree on

but the second...Errr, no.

There is no mention in the bible of a "christmas tree", nor a giant bunny oddly enough....

There were Hebrew traditions, but up until the 4th century, there were NO biblical traditions based on pagan rituals. The only reason Constantine did it in the first place was so that he could influence religion on pagans.

I may have mis-spoken. I am not too big of a man to admit it. I don't know much about the bible, admittedly so. In my limited search, I couldn't find much "in" the bible. I will retract that statement.


On a side note:
Do you know of any churches that hold an easter egg hunt every year?

[flashstang04]

Me- 1
You-0

Just ribbin' you...




I am sure there are many churches that have some sort of easter egg hunt. The more liberal ones (not politically) may even have a giant bunny. Denominations are a hard lot to figure out sometimes. Why do to you ask?

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Me- 1
You-0

Just ribbin' you...




I am sure there are many churches that have some sort of easter egg hunt. The more liberal ones (not politically) may even have a giant bunny. Denominations are a hard lot to figure out sometimes. Why do to you ask?

I was just wondering. The 'Easter egg' is obviously a pagan tradition, and since there is no mention of it in the bible, how did churches come to the conclusion that this is something that should be done to celebrate a holy day of ressurrection (or death) or what have you?

[flashstang04]

I was just wondering. The 'Easter egg' is obviously a pagan tradition, and since there is no mention of it in the bible, how did churches come to the conclusion that this is something that should be done to celebrate a holy day of ressurrection (or death) or what have you?


Well, like all of those things, it started out with a pagan meaning (nature, rebirth, etc) and ended up in in the church's hands to represent rebirth (salvation). They started coloring them (usually blood red to represent covering the old life..or "shell") according to an old legend that the pope had blessed some ancient church bells and were returned with the newly colored eggs. How they came to hide them..I don't think I ever heard a reason for that.

[Zarathustra]

this is my favorite thread of the week...

I think it's great these guys came out with such an inspirational book. More and more kids are looking at their parents like they're crazy when they talk about god and theology as a whole. I'm glad someone finally took the initiative to embark on such an arduous journey of enlightening the nation's children through the arts. A classic example of exactly what needs to happen more and more every day, I'm glad someone had the nuts to be the catalyst of such a monumental task. Cheers to those guys....

[Chili]

But this thread is from last week. :confused:






:D

[Denny]

this is my favorite thread of the week...

I think it's great these guys came out with such an inspirational book. More and more kids are looking at their parents like they're crazy when they talk about god and theology as a whole. I'm glad someone finally took the initiative to embark on such an arduous journey of enlightening the nation's children through the arts. A classic example of exactly what needs to happen more and more every day, I'm glad someone had the nuts to be the catalyst of such a monumental task. Cheers to those guys....
Do you even know what it's about? :confused:

[turbos66coupe]

Do you even know what it's about? :confused:


Nope, not a clue. :rolleyes:

What do you take me for, Denny?

[jones4stangs]

I went to Chic-Fil-A the other day and my daughter got a Veggie Tales book in her kids meal. We went in there for some chicken.
hahahahaha, too funny.

[360 Notch]

every post seems to show a underlying anger towards GOD for things people have chosen to do in their lives.

I like to be a heathen so Im gonna try and bash GOD so I feel better about the mistakes and sinfull life I want to live even though I know its wrong.

Ill blame it on GOD and not my own actions.


Golden Compass is a blatant act by anti-GOD people to keep the moral codes movement to the left (read liberal) moving today.

You would think after all the damage its done these retards would notice the leftward movemet of the American society is screwing us up.

"lets promote all the evils like gangsters, sleeping around, drugs, money is king, do what you want just dont judge me crap" instead of

"love your neighbor, money is not the most important thing, drugs are bad, gangsters and this hiphop money/sex/crooked lifestyle is sinnfull and tears apart our society, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, help others, etc..."


yeah, hating GOD and what is RIGHT is a pain the the ass, or a bunch of guilt retoric.


grow up guys.

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

every post seems to show a underlying anger towards GOD for things people have chosen to do in their lives.

I like to be a heathen so Im gonna try and bash GOD so I feel better about the mistakes and sinfull life I want to live even though I know its wrong.

Ill blame it on GOD and not my own actions.


Golden Compass is a blatant act by anti-GOD people to keep the moral codes movement to the left (read liberal) moving today.

You would think after all the damage its done these retards would notice the leftward movemet of the American society is screwing us up.

"lets promote all the evils like gangsters, sleeping around, drugs, money is king, do what you want just dont judge me crap" instead of

"love your neighbor, money is not the most important thing, drugs are bad, gangsters and this hiphop money/sex/crooked lifestyle is sinnfull and tears apart our society, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, help others, etc..."


yeah, hating GOD and what is RIGHT is a pain the the ass, or a bunch of guilt retoric.


grow up guys.

Alrighty. So there are all gangsters, rap artists, drug users, prostitutes, and child molesters atheist? Surely that's not what you believe. I'd almost venture to say that most are christian in some form or fashion.

How can people blame, bash or hate god if they don't believe in him?


Grow up? How about wake up?

[flashstang04]

Just to be clear,that is a moot statement anyway. The enemy doesn't care what you are as along as you are not Christian. In fact, it is even better if you are a gang bangin thug that raps about whores and cop killing, and profess to be Christian. It furthers the enemies agenda if one can say "Im a Christian and live the way I want.

[360 Notch]

Alrighty. So there are all gangsters, rap artists, drug users, prostitutes, and child molesters atheist? Surely that's not what you believe. I'd almost venture to say that most are christian in some form or fashion.

How can people blame, bash or hate god if they don't believe in him?


Grow up? How about wake up?


all people and all religions have "bad people" in the group, I know most of you think that to be a christian is to be perfect. There has never been a perfect christian. Ever. Jesus was the only perfect being to walk the earth. Get that crap out of your head and stop using it for a crutch to try and bring down "christians". Hell mormons claim they are christians and they dont even believe the bible. I can claim to be the POPE but that dosent mean I am.




Keep hatin GOD for what ever reason you have.... he still loves you.

and yes WAKE UP.

[DarkWolf]

Why are you all so gung-ho about The Golden Compass? My wife and I researched this and apparently, this first movie is decent, and tends to keep religion out of the picture, for the most part. But, there are two more books after the first book, and they are adimently against God. In the third book, the story is blatantly telling people to go against God.

American Family Association is saying that the goal of this first movie is to get kids hooked on the story so they'll go read the books and get the anti-God message of the second and third books. Like I said, this first movie is supposed to be a good one, and keeps the religion out of it, to some degree...but watch out for the books and second and third movies. I won't give these people my money after finding out what the book trilogy is about.

How about we stop listening to the hypocrites in the AFA and make up our own minds?

You do realize the Archbishop of Canterbury not only has spoken with the author of the series of books, but also praises and recommends them, right? Or did the AFA neglect to mention that?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2004/03/17/bodark17.xml

rederick

Not really sure what that is.

but never once are we told on the commercials that it's anti-God.

Because it's not. You say you've researched, but I'm ... oh about 110% sure you haven't actually read the book.

If they would come out and say that, I'd have no problem with them showing this movie. None whatsoever. Because very few would go see it.

And yet, you guys protested The Da Vinci Code, and it was a pretty big hit (despite being a horrible movie, the book is still good stuff though).

The only thing you do by raising such a stink about movies, is make people curious what all the fuss is about, and they go see it.

Right. I have no problem if someone wants to speak out against God, just be open about it. The maker's were originally trying to sneak it in, but were called on it. Now they're more open about it AFTER the fact. What were they afraid of? God?

After what fact, exactly? The book is not anti-god, but it's not particularly pro-religion either. The producers of the movie, from the start, have removed all religious references from the story, in order to "tone it down" so as not to get you christians in a tizzy about it.

Of course not. It simply influences their decisions. They have to choose for themselves...

Kinda hard to do when you've got your parents telling you what to believe, and boycotting books and movies because they might provide an alternate viewpoint.

They can choose for themselves, as long as they choose your way, right?

lol I knew a lot about evolution before I became a creationist.

No, you didn't. I remember quite well some of your arguments in the past.

Question.... if there was a movie that was very beautiful in it's scenery and character effects, but it was overtly about Satanism...seeing that you don't believe, would you take your kids to it? It would considered an alternative view. So would you in good conscious take your kids to see it? Let's say the "hero" of the film is named "Satan", and he is portrayed in a good light. After all, if it is all rubbish...why not? As long as it entertains us right?

I would love to see a movie adaptation of Memnoch The Devil.

Of course it never hurts when your devil is as hot as Elizabeth Hurley either.

You got a whole series on TV called "Reaper", that while the devil isn't the main character/hero, he plays a prominent part and is quite likable.

Can't forget George Burns as both god and the devil.

study about the REAL deadly regimes or did Christians fake the Pol Pot, Hitlers, Stalins, Sadam, etc.

Yeah, except Hitler was christian. And Saddam was muslim.

or even the American Indian?

What about the native Americans? Should we talk about how white christians came and took their land, raped their women, murdered their children? Should we talk about how they co-existed relatively peacfully for thousands of years before the white christians came? Sure there were conflicts between tribes, but they were miniscule compared to the massacres they suffered at the hands of white christians.

I guess we could go look at prison percentages or something....oh, well

I already did that a few years ago. Vast majority of prison population is christian.

Where did the standards of right and wrong come from? Is man "basically good"?

Yes, though religious zealots would have us believe otherwise. We somehow survived for thousands of years before christianity came along. If we were all inherently evil, we would've killed ourselves off.

It is all on that other thread where I was talking about some of the occult things I was involved in....

Your involvement in the occult disproves that god was the LAST!!! thing you were looking for. You were obviously searching for some spiritual guidance.

You would think after all the damage its done these retards would notice the leftward movemet of the American society is screwing us up.

"lets promote all the evils like gangsters, sleeping around, drugs, money is king, do what you want just dont judge me crap" instead of

"love your neighbor, money is not the most important thing, drugs are bad, gangsters and this hiphop money/sex/crooked lifestyle is sinnfull and tears apart our society, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, help others, etc..."

Dude, where the hell do you get this shit? You do realize it's the "lefty hippies" that are against the war, and all for peace love and happiness.

Money is king? Um, San Francisco, Summer of Love 1967. Look it up.

Alcohol can be abused as much as cocaine. Excessive/abusive use of either is bad. Various drugs, however, have been used for thousands of years with restraint. That is until christians deemed them dangerous and subsequently making them more desirable. You always want, what you can't have.

[talisman]

I <3 your posts, DarkWolf.

[flashstang04]

Your involvement in the occult disproves that god was the LAST!!! thing you were looking for. You were obviously searching for some spiritual guidance.



You don't know what you are talking about. I wasn't seeking any spiritual guidance. For someone who does not believe in anything, it seems you are quick to speak out of ignorance about the occult, and spirituality in general. Besides a large ego, what makes you think you know what or what I wasn't looking for ?

[DarkWolf]

You don't know what you are talking about. I wasn't seeking any spiritual guidance. For someone who does not believe in anything, it seems you are quick to speak out of ignorance about the occult, and spirituality in general. Besides a large ego, what makes you think you know what or what I wasn't looking for ?

It's you who knows nothing. Perhaps if you weren't so adverse to the search function, you might learn a thing or two.

But please, for my own amusement... learn me on what you think the occult is.

[flashstang04]

I am not here to amuse you, nor do I feel the need to use the search function to find out what I already know. I debate this stuff daily. So if you wanna have a conversation then fine. If you wanna get off on having an attitude, then look elsewhere.

[DarkWolf]

to find out what I already know.

You assume you know, but you've already shown that you don't know a thing. I'm not going to spoon feed you the information that is readily available. Especially if you're going to be too lazy to seek it out.

I debate this stuff daily.

Haven't heard this before.

Here's a tip, if you're going to debate with someone, you might want to do a little research first. It helps.

[SVT93Style]

Just wanted to jump in here, Hitler was not a Christian.
I can be a 4" tall 120 pds and call myself a bodybuilder...but does that make me a bodybuilder no...

I can't call myseld a vegitarian and eat steak all the time...I might have the desire to be a veg. but my actions state otherwise

Paying lips service doesn't make you a Christian, your actions are what ultimatley do.

Hitler and Chirst don't belong in the same sentence.

[DarkWolf]

Just wanted to jump in here, Hitler was not a Christian.
I can be a 4" tall 120 pds and call myself a bodybuilder...but does that make me a bodybuilder no...

I can't call myseld a vegitarian and eat steak all the time...I might have the desire to be a veg. but my actions state otherwise

Paying lips service doesn't make you a Christian, your actions are what ultimatley do.

Hitler and Chirst don't belong in the same sentence.

Unfortunately, often what one says, and what one does, are mutually exclusive. Even today.

It's where the saying "Do as I say, not as I do" comes from.

By his actions, I agree that Hitler was not christian. But he proclaimed to be christian. The popes and bishops that sanctioned the crusades and inquisitions claimed to be christian. The KKK claims to be a christian organization. Emperor Constantine claimed to be a christian.

[Brain_Mach1]

By his actions, I agree that Hitler was not christian. But he proclaimed to be christian. The popes and bishops that sanctioned the crusades and inquisitions claimed to be christian. The KKK claims to be a christian organization. Emperor Constantine claimed to be a christian.

I brought up Hitler because he was baptized and raised as a Catholic, but the Catholic Church openly opposed him. The encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge (1937) was written to condemn the Nazi’s. Yes, Hitler and his party were condemned by the Catholic Church. This means, by definition, he was not Catholic. What denomination did he profess?

As for the Crusades, only Catholic and Greek Orthodox armies fought in the Crusades, so other Christian groups are exempt. Unless you want to be speaking Arabic, the Crusades saved Europe from the fate of the entire Middle-East. Mind you, the Church outlawed tournaments and wars among Christians and encouraged men to fight against the invading armies instead of themselves. Yes, men fought each other or for small lords and there was no real unity. The Popes unified the men behind a cause against invaders. If you don’t believe the Mohammedans were invaders, show me Constantinople on a map. The division of the Reformation and the lack of Crusades allowed events like the defeat in 1526 Battle of Mohács and had the Turks at the gates of Vienna by 1529. Without the "Bishops and Pope", Europe and America would be Muslim right now.

If you don’t understand the cause and effects of the crusades, the inquisition is only more difficult.

Constantine was only Baptized on his death-bed. :eek: He outlawed the persecution of Christians with the Edict of Milan in 313. What is it you dislike about Constantine the Great? :confused:

None of this changes the fact the biggest killing machines of their own people were atheist governments (Stalin and Pol Pot, oh yeah Hitler the non-Christian).

I think the quote you are looking for is, “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." – GK Chesterton

[Brain_Mach1]

just do a search for 'bible AND pagan' You may be surprised.

Here is a sample, as quoted from BrianC:

"Most Christian holidays come from Catholic roots, and the Catholics get much of their traditions and symbols from Jewish traditions, oddly enough....."
Fixed

[ClockwrkOrangeS4]

Fixed


So are you saying that you are changing what you originally said (or believe)?


There is no denying that the two most celebrated christian holidays are celebrated primarily with pagan traditions.

[Brain_Mach1]

So are you saying that you are changing what you originally said (or believe)?

There is no denying that the two most celebrated christian holidays are celebrated primarily with pagan traditions.
It was BrianC's quote so I am not changing my belief.

Aside from secularization of Christian holidays, Catholic liturgy is very similar to Jewish liturgy. The buildings also have a similarity with churches and synagogues both having tabernacles containing the Word of God. My guess is that you are confusing a Christmas tree with the mass on Christmas day or the Easter bunny with the services the entire Holy Week.

If you are making reference to Christians maintaining certain traditions of the locals that is obvious from the simple fact that Paul’s letters are written in the language of the Gentiles instead of the Jews. True you do not have to be Jewish to be Christian, but you don’t have to loose you own ethnicity.

On anther note, the very first worship of God was when Cain and Abel made their sacrifices and there is no reference of God calling for a sacrifice or worship. This speaks to a Natural Religion, inspiration without specific direction since God did not say in the Genesis that these two must sacrifice their first fruits.

[Nestromo]

It is best to shield your childrens' eyes from ALL opposing viewpoints, that way they don't ever have to deal with making decisions or coming to terms with the ideas of others. Remember: an open mind is a dangerous thing. Protect your children from this danger!

[FATHERFORD]

It is best to shield your childrens' eyes from ALL opposing viewpoints, that way they don't ever have to deal with making decisions or coming to terms with the ideas of others. Remember: an open mind is a dangerous thing. Protect your children from this danger!


:eek:

[Mr Majestyk]

this is my favorite thread of the week...

I think it's great these guys came out with such an inspirational book. More and more kids are looking at their parents like they're crazy when they talk about god and theology as a whole. I'm glad someone finally took the initiative to embark on such an arduous journey of enlightening the nation's children through the arts. A classic example of exactly what needs to happen more and more every day, I'm glad someone had the nuts to be the catalyst of such a monumental task. Cheers to those guys....

Were you one of the children enlightened by this children's book, Fudgepecker? Did you didcuss it with your parents before you turned in for the night in your bunk bed?