Perry is getting weak! Commuted an execution. [Archive]

exlude

08-31-2007, 07:59 AM

Well the law says that he should have been killed and thats what a jury decided. I think its bullshit and politicians should stay out of it. Now the tax payers get to support the piece of shit for the next 40 years. He'll get better health care than most people on this board.

Fwiw, it's cheaper to get life in prison than the death sentence.

line-em-up

08-31-2007, 08:07 AM

Fwiw, it's cheaper to get life in prison than the death sentence.

How can that be?

fitzwell

08-31-2007, 08:11 AM

How can that be?

yeah....inquiring minds want to know

In the words of Ron White..........."My state has a death penalty, and we USE it"
So Perry sticks his nose in, gets this guy commuted to life & we get to pay for a lifetime of health care, dental, and any education he wants.....

nice :mad:

shrp88lx's

08-31-2007, 08:20 AM

How can that be?mostly because of all the legal fees surrounding it!

shrp88lx's

08-31-2007, 08:21 AM

on this one. I am against the death penalty. I don't like believe in state sanctioned murders. I also realize this is a largely unpopular belief so please don't waste your time telling me how stupid it is or what if it was one of my family. I believe in God and his plan.might want to do a lil research on the word murder!!!

Paladin

09-01-2007, 08:38 AM

Why would we not want to execute someone who was the driver for a guy who committed at least 4 armed robberies, one of which ended in a capital murder? He deserved the life sentence for any one of the 4 robberies, so why does he get life for being complicit in robberies that ended in a murder? Is there anyone alive who does not know that you run the risk of someone being killed when you drive aorund and rob a bunch of people?

BTW, the cost of a life sentence is less because we have allowed so many appeals for death sentence cases. There have been several attempts to limit the appeals, but no real progress has been made.

For you anti-death penalty people, has there been any confirmed cases of someone who was executed and then found to be innocent? I know people have been taken off death row before execution, but with all the "innocence" projects going on right now, you would think they would have a vested interest in finding a case where someone innocent had been executed.

bullfrog

09-01-2007, 10:42 AM

For you anti-death penalty people, has there been any confirmed cases of someone who was executed and then found to be innocent? I know people have been taken off death row before execution, but with all the "innocence" projects going on right now, you would think they would have a vested interest in finding a case where someone innocent had been executed.

At least for me it is not about guilt or innocence, but about it being against God's will. When we execute another person we as a society are no better than they are. Religious beliefs aside I think it is wrong for our government to murder it's citizens. Innocents have died throughout our history for someone elses personal gain why do you think it has changed.

black01gt

09-01-2007, 11:26 AM

At least for me it is not about guilt or innocence, but about it being against God's will. When we execute another person we as a society are no better than they are. Religious beliefs aside I think it is wrong for our government to murder it's citizens. Innocents have died throughout our history for someone elses personal gain why do you think it has changed.
God helps those who help themselves. If you remove the death penalty for certain crimes, then what is the deterent for criminals that are willing and sometimes even eager to be institutionalized from killing innocent people? Isn't this society screwed up enough because of toleration as it is?

bullfrog

09-01-2007, 12:28 PM

when we start rationalizing murder things get very blurry. The armed robber rationalized killing to obtain his goals, so that is accepatable in his view. Then we as a society rationalize his killing to obtain our goals, so that becomes acceptable? Where does it stop? :(
I believe in incarceration and paying their debt to society, just not the death sentence to accomplish it.

09-01-2007, 12:38 PM

I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, mainly because it's used all wrong. The fastest you'll ever go from sentencing to execution is over 2 years. They need to carry out the execution on the same day the sentence comes down.

black01gt

09-01-2007, 12:45 PM

I'm for whatever works best to protect society. It's like when you went from the consequences of getting your ass beat by the coach for acting up in school to "time out", things began to change for the worst....drastically! Now they would kill the coach. :eek: Society is not much different.

I think if God allows evil mofos to kill innocent people, he expects us to handle it. It's up to us.
I think OJ should've been fried. There was certainley no lack of evidence of cold blooded murder, and because he thought he could get away with it he just went on and did right in the front yard. What an excellent example we could have sent, but instead...

Paladin

09-02-2007, 06:21 AM

At least for me it is not about guilt or innocence, but about it being against God's will.

Then why do we put people in jail if guilt or innonence doesn't matter? :confused:

When we execute another person we as a society are no better than they are.

I just have to disagree with this statement. They have killed someone who is innocent, we are executing them only after they have lost their right to be part of society.

Religious beliefs aside I think it is wrong for our government to murder it's citizens.

Murder is what the person being executed has done, not what is being done to them. They had the choice to not commit the crime and they would not have found themselves in that situation.

Innocents have died throughout our history for someone elses personal gain why do you think it has changed.

I have no idea what the hell you are trying to say with this sentence.

Paladin

09-02-2007, 06:26 AM

when we start rationalizing murder things get very blurry. The armed robber rationalized killing to obtain his goals, so that is accepatable in his view.

There is no rationalization for an execution. Besides, you see the goals and rationalization of a cold blooded killer as the same as an execution?

Then we as a society rationalize his killing to obtain our goals, so that becomes acceptable? Where does it stop? :( .

Please tell me you see the difference bewteen a person who kills in cold blood and the state executing that person. If not, then I pray you never have any say about how to keep my family safe from these evil murdering pieces of trash.

I believe in incarceration and paying their debt to society, just not the death sentence to accomplish it.

I see the death penalty as paying their debt to society, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

bullfrog

09-02-2007, 10:07 AM

Please tell me you see the difference bewteen a person who kills in cold blood and the state executing that person.

I see the death penalty as paying their debt to society, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

Yes and no. I do not believe man has the right to decide who lives and who dies.
Lock them up for life yes, but don't kill them. By doing so they are no longer a threat to your family.

JimD

09-02-2007, 10:18 AM

Paladin

09-02-2007, 12:27 PM

Yes and no. I do not believe man has the right to decide who lives and who dies.
Lock them up for life yes, but don't kill them. By doing so they are no longer a threat to your family.

Unless they escape, or your family works at the prison......yeah, no longer a threat. :rolleyes:

Pro Trash

09-02-2007, 02:50 PM

Yes and no. I do not believe man has the right to decide who lives and who dies.
Lock them up for life yes, but don't kill them. By doing so they are no longer a threat to your family.

Ever been in a war?

bullfrog

09-02-2007, 03:21 PM

Ever been in a war?

and at this point I would have to be a conscientious objector. Sorry, but you will not change my mind. I believe killing is wrong, whether it is an armed robber killing his victim or the state executioner fulfilling his duties. The end result is the same, a person has been killed. The only difference is one is an innocent victim the other is not, but they are both god's children and should be judged by him and not me.

Treadhead

09-02-2007, 04:52 PM

So if an armed robber is about to kill you or a family member and you have the oppotunity to kill him before he does it, you would not do it?

Do you remember the Texas Seven?

bullfrog

09-02-2007, 06:17 PM

can what if all day. I am not trying to change your mind just offering an alternative to killing another human being. :(

Fobra

09-02-2007, 07:56 PM

can what if all day. I am not trying to change your mind just offering an alternative to killing another human being. :(
You realize that capital punishment is biblically justified right? It is erroneous to suggest otherwise. On whether or not capital punishment is justified if someone murders another; Exod 21:12

The New Testament repeats the Ten Commandments (with the exception of one, the command to worship on Saturday is not repeated). The very commands given to Moses on Sinai are repeated in the NT. Paul states many of them in Romans 13.9. Others appear elsewhere (Eph. 6:2-3). If the Old Testament law is not in effect today, then it is strange that the New Testament repeats these commandments. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it (Matt. 5:17).

In addition, capital punishment is repeated in the NT. It explicitly reaffirms capital punishment in Romans 13:4 where it declares that God has given the sword to human governments. Likewise, both Jesus (John 19:11) and Paul refer to capital punishment (Acts 25:11).

Just food for thought. :)

bullfrog

09-02-2007, 08:50 PM

That may be your interpretation, but have you actually read these passages? To me at least that is the most off the wall interpretation you could arrive at. They refer to the death penalty instituted by a non-christian government, but that is not a personal endorsement from God for the death penalty. I don't believe in the death sentence, end of story.

Fobra

09-02-2007, 11:17 PM

That may be your interpretation, but have you actually read these passages?
Yes.

To me at least that is the most off the wall interpretation you could arrive at. They refer to the death penalty instituted by a non-christian government

It's both, Paul notes (in general of course) that governments are instituted by God and have the right to capital punishment regardless of your opinion of it.
but that is not a personal endorsement from God for the death penalty.
It is a form of endorsement nonetheless.
I don't believe in the death sentence, end of story.
Fine.

bullfrog

09-02-2007, 11:30 PM

Yes.

It's both, Paul notes (in general of course) that governments are instituted by God and have the right to capital punishment regardless of your opinion of it.

It is a form of endorsement nonetheless.

Fine.

If you believe that you need help. :(

Paladin

09-03-2007, 05:48 AM

can what if all day. I am not trying to change your mind just offering an alternative to killing another human being. :(

I love the arrogance of people like you that implies that your decision is well thought out and ours is somehow not. You can't see that people can have thought about all the things you have and still decided that the death penalty is a good and necessary thing. Very sad for you IMO.

bullfrog

09-03-2007, 10:22 AM

I love the arrogance of people like you that implies that your decision is well thought out and ours is somehow not. You can't see that people can have thought about all the things you have and still decided that the death penalty is a good and necessary thing. Very sad for you IMO.

across as being arrogant, just explaining why I have taken this stand. I believe in the sanctity of all human life and being led by my beliefs to not endorse taking the life of another. I still fail to see how killing another person is good or necessary when there is an alternative. Sure the death penalty is convenient, in that you don't have to deal with that person any longer and I am sure it is cheaper. It also satisfies the need for revenge. I just happen to disagree witn you.

Paladin

09-03-2007, 11:29 AM

across as being arrogant, just explaining why I have taken this stand. I believe in the sanctity of all human life and being led by my beliefs to not endorse taking the life of another. I still fail to see how killing another person is good or necessary when there is an alternative. Sure the death penalty is convenient, in that you don't have to deal with that person any longer and I am sure it is cheaper. It also satisfies the need for revenge. I just happen to disagree witn you.

I support your efforts fully when you direct your attempts to protect the sanctity of life BEFORE the crime is committed. I am glad there are people like you around, especially if you are making a difference after the crime.

I just have a problem with those who seem to want to defend guilty life instead of focusing on the innocents who were killed.

black01gt

09-03-2007, 01:14 PM

So if an armed robber is about to kill you or a family member and you have the oppotunity to kill him before he does it, you would not do it?

Do you remember the Texas Seven?
Do you remember Kenneth McDuff? Got a death sentence...twice! The second time they didn't let him off...
I can't believe anyone would still argue the death penalty after watching this guy, and our parole board in action.

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Man blamed for 14 murders executed in Texas

HUNTSVILLE, Texas (CNN) -- Kenneth Allen McDuff, who was freed from death row only to return a second time, was executed in Texas Tuesday night. He was the 17th inmate put to death in that state this year.

McDuff, 52, was believed to be the only condemned inmate in the nation ever paroled and then returned to death row for another murder.

McDuff was first imprisoned in 1965 for burglary, and then went to death row in 1968 for fatally shooting two teen-age boys in the face in Fort Worth. He was also convicted of raping and strangling their 16-year-old female companion.

But as he was awaiting execution in 1972, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death penalty as unconstitutional. McDuff's sentence was commuted to life. After 21 years in prison, McDuff was paroled in 1989, when Texas freed thousands of inmates to free up space in their overcrowded prisons for newly convicted inmates.

Two of his victims, Melissa Ann Northrup and Colleen Reed were killed a short time later.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/17/texas.execution/

bullfrog

09-03-2007, 02:00 PM

[QUOTE=black01gt]Do you remember Kenneth McDuff? Got a death sentence...twice! The second time they didn't let him off...
I can't believe anyone would still argue the death penalty after watching this guy, and our parole board in action.

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That still doesn't change my view point of the death sentence. The Parole board should have never released him. A life sentence should mean life. There should be no early release for a capital crime.

Fobra

09-03-2007, 05:08 PM

If you believe that you need help. :(
I might suggest reading a book called Christian Ethics Options and Issues by Norman Giesler. In the chapter of capital punishment, he talks about the two dominating views; rehabilitation and retribution. I hold to the retribution view, and as I said before, capital punishment is biblically justified, Norm explains it better in the book, just fyi.