View Full Version : Universal healthcare? Sure, if you want to bankrupt America
David Walker, Comptroller General of the United States on 60 Minutes talks about how the US has obligations that far exceed its available funds.
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black90gt
08-28-2007, 12:39 PM
And illegals can get free health care any time needed :mad:
Free healthcare is just another entitlement issue with the lazy assholes in this country. Get your own fucking insurance with your own fucking money and stop expecting me to pay for it.
Bobba Fett
08-28-2007, 01:17 PM
Free healthcare is just another entitlement issue with the lazy assholes in this country. Get your own fucking insurance with your own fucking money and stop expecting me to pay for it.
Your kidding, right?? Your calling ruffly 44 million Americans lazy? I'm as conservative as they come, but you don't see a problem with America's heath care system?
I just feel that the healthcare system in this country is broke and is a complete joke and I just don't see how anyone can't agree. Hell, people from other countries won't come to the USA even to visit without first getting temporary health insurance b/c if something were to happen to them they would be pennyless for the rest of there lives.
Just admit it, its BROKEN. If you were to get cancer today and Opera Winfrey were to get it also, who do you think is going to live longer???
lowthreeohz
08-28-2007, 01:23 PM
Hell, people from other countries won't come to the USA even to visit without first getting temporary health insurance b/c if something were to happen to them they would be pennyless for the rest of there lives.
Sounds like you watched a Michael Moore flick....
Bobba Fett
08-28-2007, 01:27 PM
Sounds like you watched a Michael Moore flick....
lol, great, i knew i had that comming :rolleyes:
never watched any of his America hating films, but i can only imagine what he says in Sicko
nope, i've just seen the health care system as it truly is. i have insurance and i still get charged out the ass. never fails.
ninja edit: i did watch parts of Sicko now that i think about it. wasn't the whole film posted here at one point????
lowthreeohz
08-28-2007, 01:35 PM
wasn't the whole film posted here at one point????
Yeah, i watched it when i was bored at work. Those old people were coming from canada to visit family or something and bought temporary insurance.
btw i think waaaaaaaay more people come thinking 'if i get hurt they'll pay for it' rather than thinking they need to insure themselves.
Casper
08-28-2007, 01:46 PM
Its not as broken as the UK's system.
40 years old? Too old for dialysis. Next!
Acute angina? Your appointment is set for Thursday, March 7, 2012. Don't forget or we'll have to reschedule later. Much later.
46Tbird
08-28-2007, 02:22 PM
Your kidding, right?? Your calling ruffly 44 million Americans lazy? I'm as conservative as they come, but you don't see a problem with America's heath care system?
I just feel that the healthcare system in this country is broke and is a complete joke and I just don't see how anyone can't agree. Hell, people from other countries won't come to the USA even to visit without first getting temporary health insurance b/c if something were to happen to them they would be pennyless for the rest of there lives.
Just admit it, its BROKEN. If you were to get cancer today and Opera Winfrey were to get it also, who do you think is going to live longer???Yeah, millions of Mexican citizens here in the States with "temporary health insurance." :rolleyes:
Who are you trying to kid?!?? America has the best health care system in the world, and it's because we're all responsible for paying for it. Those that have great jobs, have great insurance. Those that make no money, have great health care coverage provided by a government safety net. Those in the middle, get screwed - just like everything else.
jones4stangs
08-28-2007, 02:30 PM
American is already in debt. According to that video, in our present system, the medical benefits promised to the retiring baby boomers (Medicare) will bankrupt America.
Can this be for real? Your right, damn universal care, the government can't even pay for Medicare!
jones4stangs
08-28-2007, 02:37 PM
America has the best health care system in the world, and it's because we're all responsible for paying for it.
Isn't the point of that video that we are not paying for our health care system? Won't health insurance without Medicare will be unpayable?
Your kidding, right?? Your calling ruffly 44 million Americans lazy? I'm as conservative as they come, but you don't see a problem with America's heath care system?
I just feel that the healthcare system in this country is broke and is a complete joke and I just don't see how anyone can't agree. Hell, people from other countries won't come to the USA even to visit without first getting temporary health insurance b/c if something were to happen to them they would be pennyless for the rest of there lives.
Just admit it, its BROKEN. If you were to get cancer today and Opera Winfrey were to get it also, who do you think is going to live longer???
What are you, fucking retarded? I never said there wasn't anything wrong with the healthcare system. I just said I wasn't going to pay for anyone else's insurance. If someone wants fucking insurance they can pay for it, just like I do. The fact that the system is fucked up doesn't change the fact that I don't owe anyone anything.
But please, keep on jumping to conclusions, you amuse me.
American is already in debt. According to that video, in our present system, the medical benefits promised to the retiring baby boomers (Medicare) will bankrupt America.
Can this be for real? Your right, damn universal care, the government can't even pay for Medicare!
We'll pay for all this shit with magical mythical unicorn dollars that grow on the trees right at the corner of gumdrop avenue and entitlement street!
None of the free healthcare assholes think for one minute beyond their own selfish fucking greedy selves. The problem with healthcare in this country is that it is expensive as fuck. And now that people can't afford it, the assholes who make sure it stays as expensive as fuck want to make the government pay for it. Am I the only person who can see through this line of fucking bullshit and realize that the true solution is a reduction in the cost? Not to have the government pay for it at the people's expense! The government has already totally fucked up medicare, why in the hell would anyone want to hand them another assignment, what kind of a fucking moron thinks this a good idea?
If you want to see evidence of how totally fucking stupid people are, just look at this issue.
I just want to slap people who think we need MORE government regulation of health care when government regulations is what made it so damn expensive. Competition is what keeps prices lower and as soon as the government got involved with health care competition was severely lowered. If you want to see a big drop in health care costs quickly heres what you do:
1. Get rid of the AMA (without them limiting how many doctors can enter med school an unlimited amount can enter med school and its just simple supply and demand from here)
2. Fix the FDA (It currently takes the average medicinal company $5 billion to get a new prescription drug FDA approved for sale. Remove the over head and more medicine can enter the market with much less overhead)
3. Allow the free markets to work (the government doesn't need to waste time and money babysitting us to make sure we get decent health care. Much like everything else, consumers will decide who/what/where/how they want to get treated and the best doctor/hospital/health plan will always win. It works for cars, airlines, furniture, electronics, cell phone coverage, and even clothing. If the free markets can work for those industries than it can work for health care too.
mikeb
08-28-2007, 06:12 PM
Am I the only person who can see through this line of fucking bullshit and realize that the true solution is a reduction in the cost? Not to have the government pay for it at the people's expense! The government has already totally fucked up medicare, why in the hell would anyone want to hand them another assignment, what kind of a fucking moron thinks this a good idea?
If you want to see evidence of how totally fucking stupid people are, just look at this issue.
Case in point: the prescription drug coverage that got voted in recently. One provision in the deal prohibits the government from negotiating bulk discounts from the drug makers :rolleyes: I wonder how that provision made it into the legislation.....
grape
08-28-2007, 06:31 PM
aren't medical companies just like oil companies and desereve to make their profit.........you guys are starting to not sound like republicans. If you want to see a fucking going on, why don't you guys who have company paid for insurance look and see what the final cost is that gets haggled over. I'll make it short for you because i know a few in the business, hip replacement to joe blow no insurance or medicare, $50K........my grandmother's hip after medicare got done haggling $9600..........IS THAT FAIR TO THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE WORK? Sounds like the republicans want doctors and surgeons to do this shit for the goodness of their heart.
the free market plan spoken of before sure does seem to be working well in home energy costs.....whew, i'm saving a bundle now. :rolleyes:
the free market plan spoken of before sure does seem to be working well in home energy costs.....whew, i'm saving a bundle now. :rolleyes:
You can't really compare energy and health care. Energy is a "commodity" and is usually derived from a continuously depleted source that is not renewable. Doctors, hospitals, nurses, medicine, medical equipment can all be replaced.
lefty1300
08-28-2007, 08:03 PM
Free healthcare is just another entitlement issue with the lazy assholes in this country. Get your own fucking insurance with your own fucking money and stop expecting me to pay for it.
PERFECTLY STATED
Mustangman_2000
08-28-2007, 08:50 PM
well, it works in canada for the most part.
however, i just see that as something that would be abused by illegal immigrants and those whole label themselves "minorities".
Bobba Fett
08-29-2007, 09:09 AM
however, i just see that as something that would be abused by illegal immigrants and those whole label themselves "minorities".
Probably, but AL P said it best: "Either way the people in the middle get screwed."
aren't medical companies just like oil companies and desereve to make their profit.........you guys are starting to not sound like republicans. If you want to see a fucking going on, why don't you guys who have company paid for insurance look and see what the final cost is that gets haggled over. I'll make it short for you because i know a few in the business, hip replacement to joe blow no insurance or medicare, $50K........my grandmother's hip after medicare got done haggling $9600..........IS THAT FAIR TO THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE WORK? Sounds like the republicans want doctors and surgeons to do this shit for the goodness of their heart.
the free market plan spoken of before sure does seem to be working well in home energy costs.....whew, i'm saving a bundle now. :rolleyes:
Who the hell is a republican? Fuck I take that as an insult!
Just like I said, the problem with our healthcare system is on the pricing side. I'll bet there aren't many $50K hip replacements done. And yes, I want doctors and surgeons to do the job for a reasonable price. If there was no medicare and no hip replacements done what would happen to that $50K price? Essentially you got the entire system feeding off the government tit, why do they need to do another hip replacement for a reasonable price when they got these $9600 jobs rolling in all day, every day?
Socialized medicine is welfare for hospitals, doctors and drug companies as well as for the poor. Ignoring the supply side of the issue is absurd.
The government is doing a great job on border security, why not let them control our health care?
Casper
08-29-2007, 01:34 PM
well, it works in canada for the most part.
No, it doesn't.
Neither does their universal auto insurance.
I'll make it short for you because i know a few in the business, hip replacement to joe blow no insurance or medicare, $50K........my grandmother's hip after medicare got done haggling $9600..........IS THAT FAIR TO THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE WORK? Sounds like the republicans want doctors and surgeons to do this shit for the goodness of their heart.
Break it down to an hourly rate. Hip replacement takes anywhere from 2-4 hours in most cases and the time in the hospital is usually less than 4 days. You've got the physical therapy of course and follow ups but those vary from patient to patient and are billed seperately. $9600 for 4 hours of work and a room with nurses for a few days is pretty damned high, $50k for the same treatment is ridiculous.
I understand that they are highly trained specialists with very expensive equipment and there is a team of nurses and what not during the surgery as well as recovery but nearly $10k for relatively minor surgery doesn't seem cheap.
mikeb
08-29-2007, 06:15 PM
Medical prices are high because "someone else is paying for it". Insurance, government, what the hell do I care as long as *I* don't have to write a check for it? (rhetorically speaking, of course).
I just got a HSA to replace a $900/month health insurance policy. I'm now paying for my health care with my own pre-tax dollars. You damn sure re-evaulate whether you really need that trip to the ER for that runny nose, and whether you need that $125/month allegra prescription when claratin D is about $30/month. And so on. In other words you start shopping and negotiating for better deals. IMO if people were having to directly pay for a chunk of their own health care you'd see a revolution in health care pricing, and you'd see fewer hip replacements done for $50k because people would find a better deal. In fact, that is already happening. There are many clinics in Mexico and other foreign countries offering these procedures in quality facilities with quality doctors for far less. People with no health insurance save thousands of dollars by simply taking a short airplane ride.
Not only that but India is doing the same thing. And many of the doctors are educated here.
Mike hinted at another problem, the fact that people are addicted to going to the doctor for every damn thing under the sun. I heard a statistic a year or two ago that in the last decade the number of prescriptions handed out has doubled. I have no idea if that is true but it would explain a lot since the population obviously hasn't doubled.
GhostTX
08-29-2007, 07:17 PM
I heard a statistic a year or two ago that in the last decade the number of prescriptions handed out has doubled. I have no idea if that is true but it would explain a lot since the population obviously hasn't doubled.
I'd share the blame with doctors for the prescriptions, as they seem to dole out a med for whatever ails you and coupled with the "quick fix" mentality people seem to have.
"Hey, I have cold."
"Here's some antibiotics."
"Hey, I have hang nail."
"Here's some antibiotics."
Where's the, "Go home, get some rest, eat chicken soup and get a pair of nail clipper!" bedside manner?!?
I had a doctor once that no matter what I'd go in for, he'd give me a 'scrip, even if I didn't think I needed/want one. I swear, he got kick-backs from the pharmaceutical companies.
Palehorse
08-29-2007, 08:54 PM
I'd share the blame with doctors for the prescriptions, as they seem to dole out a med for whatever ails you and coupled with the "quick fix" mentality people seem to have.
"Hey, I have cold."
"Here's some antibiotics."
"Hey, I have hang nail."
"Here's some antibiotics."
Where's the, "Go home, get some rest, eat chicken soup and get a pair of nail clipper!" bedside manner?!?
I had a doctor once that no matter what I'd go in for, he'd give me a 'scrip, even if I didn't think I needed/want one. I swear, he got kick-backs from the pharmaceutical companies.
Or my personal favorite
"Doc, I've been feeling kinda down."
"Here's some anti-depressants."
Why is it that something like 50% of America is on anti-depressants? damn, if we're all that f'ed up, how in the heck did we make it before ant-depressants came out?
White trash wagon
08-29-2007, 09:04 PM
I predict that within 10 years 90% of employers will not offer health insurance at all. So many will end up with catastrophic (only) insurance, or nothing.
Scott
Sgt Beavis
08-29-2007, 09:15 PM
One of the biggest problems I have with the whole health care debate is that I don't see anyone getting out there to really define the issues that are actually causing the problems. We can all point to one or two things but there are a lot more. We all know that is simply costs too damn much but no one really can define those costs down to specific terms.
I would like to see a commission created from doctors, insurers, lawyers, and MBAs. Their job is to simply define the ENTIRE PROBLEM. No proposals for fixes, just define it down to the very specific issues so we have a solid base to build from.
Once those issues are really defined, then we can start to have some honest debate on the subject. I think we can all pretty much agree that there has got to be a better way.
grape
08-29-2007, 10:07 PM
Break it down to an hourly rate. Hip replacement takes anywhere from 2-4 hours in most cases and the time in the hospital is usually less than 4 days. You've got the physical therapy of course and follow ups but those vary from patient to patient and are billed seperately. $9600 for 4 hours of work and a room with nurses for a few days is pretty damned high, $50k for the same treatment is ridiculous.
I understand that they are highly trained specialists with very expensive equipment and there is a team of nurses and what not during the surgery as well as recovery but nearly $10k for relatively minor surgery doesn't seem cheap.
45 minutes from the first incision to stitches.......... :) There is also way more work than just the actual surgery, meetings with the patient, sizing and ordering parts (literaly) and organizing the actual operation with staff meetings to arrange medication as well as other underlying conditions that the patient may have. It's not good to find out during an operation a patient is diabetic when using a particular type of bonding agent. The 45 minutes of actual surgery is accompanied by over 20 hours worth of post op check ups as well as paperwork.
My friend gets paid in peice work, $1500 per hip, the rest goes to the hospital, he usually does 3 per day and he is booked through december. His malpractice insurance is $64K per year.
I'm just saying everybody bitching about heathcare should just buy stocks in the medical field, afterall, that's what the republicans told me to do when i bitched about gas prices. :confused:
In a perfect republican world, the republicans would own the hospital and employ illegal immigrants to do the same job at less than minimum wage so as to lower the cost of goods sold, yet the retail price can remain the same.
In a perfect republican world, the republicans would own the hospital and employ illegal immigrants to do the same job at less than minimum wage so as to lower the cost of goods sold, yet the retail price can remain the same.
LOL because Democrats would never do that. They are all the same. The Republicans have big business in their back pocket and will rip off anyone they can. The Democrats have big business in their back pocket and will rip off anyone they can and then lie about it.
I predict that within 10 years 90% of employers will not offer health insurance at all. So many will end up with catastrophic (only) insurance, or nothing.
Scott
As it should be. Insurance should be for catastrohpic illness not for runny noses. Of course the medical field would hate to see the wheels fall off of that gravy train. It's a lot better to just insist that the government (ME) pay for everyone.
Casper
08-30-2007, 09:23 AM
LOL because Democrats would never do that. They are all the same. The Republicans have big business in their back pocket and will rip off anyone they can. The Democrats have trial lawyers in their back pocket and will rip off anyone they can and then lie about it.
fixed
White trash wagon
08-30-2007, 11:23 AM
Actually Casper, the majority of trial lawyers are staunch Republicans. Not that they adhere 100% to the party platform.
Scott
Stang Seller
08-30-2007, 05:35 PM
No, it doesn't.
Neither does their universal auto insurance.
Yes it does, and auto insurance varies from province to province.
Health care here is great, I've waited for minor ailments and have been rushed in when they thought my spleen was going to burst. I was in and being checked out within 15 minutes of walking (sort of) into the hospital. I find a lot of ill informed Americans speak about our healthcare system as if they have actual first hand experience with it.
As for auto insurance, Ontario is private and Quebec is government run. In Ontario, I was paying $1600 a year on my Mustang. In Quebec, I was paying $765 or so a year on my newer Mustang. Now I pay $400 a year for my GTI. I dont know what you're talking about in regards to "universal" auto insurance, this is the first I've heard of it.
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