View Full Version : Andrew inside.
Beenfetchedlately
02-23-2007, 07:59 AM
I consulted with Chris on your Vette graph you described. And its what I thought it was at the Sonic meet. He said the same thing. The guy that designed those heads for TEA, Paris, is actually working with Chris over at Ray-Mac now.
The heads back up around .620 and thats why you see that dip in the graph in the higher RPMS.
If you want to fix em, let me know and we can get together on when and how long. Do that intake up too while you got it apart. Im helping him move this weekend and once he's in the house he can get cranking out work again and much faster.
You have options..Change the cam or use the same cam and fix the heads to get that power back.
TOMMY
02-23-2007, 09:33 AM
That cam he has is a mutha!....... :D ;)
Andrew
02-23-2007, 09:44 AM
Here are the flow numbers that I got from TEA:
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.1 67.3 52.9
0.2 143.5 116.9
0.3 218.7 168.2
0.4 269.7 220.3
0.5 305.5 249.4
0.55 314.8 257
0.6 320.4 260.8
No data at 0.650" which might be because the heads back up.... I don't know.
I wouldn't be opposed to getting a different cam to optimize DCR on my setup....
Beenfetchedlately
02-23-2007, 10:33 AM
That cam he's got is a mutha!....... :D ;)
Hey tommy...Its you're not your ;)
Beenfetchedlately
02-23-2007, 10:35 AM
Here are the flow numbers that I got from TEA:
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.1 67.3 52.9
0.2 143.5 116.9
0.3 218.7 168.2
0.4 269.7 220.3
0.5 305.5 249.4
0.55 314.8 257
0.6 320.4 260.8
No data at 0.650" which might be because the heads back up.... I don't know.
I wouldn't be opposed to getting a different cam to optimize DCR on my setup....
I do know they were not designed for a super high lift cam like that. Is the exhaust flowed with the pipe or not?
Chris can spec a cam for those flow numbers if you want. Your call. LMK.
Beenfetchedlately
02-23-2007, 10:44 AM
ok....lol :p
How's that cam working out for ya?
TOMMY
02-23-2007, 10:48 AM
lol :p
How's that cam working out for ya?
I know what you meant.. :D I was trying to stay under the radar. But since you asked the Crow pulls hard..really hard. Just need a tune on it. I almost bought that cam Andrew has.
PooterWS6
02-23-2007, 11:16 AM
I know what you meant.. :D I was trying to stay under the radar. But since you asked the Crow pulls hard..really hard. Just need a tune on it. I almost bought that cam Andrew has.
When are you taking it to the track again!? :D
And did you get that cage in yet?:p
Beenfetchedlately
02-23-2007, 12:05 PM
I know what you meant.. :D I was trying to stay under the radar. But since you asked the Crow pulls hard..really hard. Just need a tune on it. I almost bought that cam Andrew has.What cam did you end up with? :cool: PM me if youd like.
TOMMY
02-23-2007, 01:26 PM
When are you taking it to the track again!? :D
And did you get that cage in yet?:p
track? no
cage? real soon
I'm shooting for the cruise...but it might be ready before then ;)
Andrew
03-08-2007, 01:39 PM
I consulted with Chris on your Vette graph you described. And its what I thought it was at the Sonic meet. He said the same thing. The guy that designed those heads for TEA, Paris, is actually working with Chris over at Ray-Mac now.
The heads back up around .620 and thats why you see that dip in the graph in the higher RPMS.
If you want to fix em, let me know and we can get together on when and how long. Do that intake up too while you got it apart. Im helping him move this weekend and once he's in the house he can get cranking out work again and much faster.
You have options..Change the cam or use the same cam and fix the heads to get that power back.
I'm interested in changing the cam out... I want it to be somewhat streetable while hauling ass at the track. I don't have a problem with 7k rpm shifts.
slownbmta
03-08-2007, 02:15 PM
track? no
cage? real soon
I'm shooting for the cruise...but it might be ready before then ;)
pm sent ;)
Thehead
03-08-2007, 03:43 PM
I'm interested in changing the cam out... I want it to be somewhat streetable while hauling ass at the track. I don't have a problem with 7k rpm shifts.
pussssssss! is 7500rpm too much for you?
Beenfetchedlately
03-09-2007, 07:16 AM
I'm interested in changing the cam out... I want it to be somewhat streetable while hauling ass at the track. I don't have a problem with 7k rpm shifts.Do you still have the flow sheet on it? If so, fax it to me. Im going by the shop later to look at some lobes with Ray on another car.
Andrew
03-09-2007, 11:18 AM
Do you still have the flow sheet on it? If so, fax it to me. Im going by the shop later to look at some lobes with Ray on another car.
Flow numbers are in post #3 and were taken from the sheet, but I can fax it to you if you like. PM me your fax number and i'll get it to you.
Beenfetchedlately
03-09-2007, 11:22 AM
Flow numbers are in post #3 and were taken from the sheet, but I can fax it to you if you like. PM me your fax number and i'll get it to you.
214-653-7781 :cool:
Andrew
03-09-2007, 11:28 AM
Fax sent.
The Raven
03-09-2007, 11:45 AM
214-653-7781 :cool:
I'ma fax a coversheet over asking for Chuck.:p
Beenfetchedlately
03-09-2007, 11:46 AM
I'ma fax a coversheet over asking for Chuck.:p
And? :rolleyes: Ill fax you a cookie back. :rolleyes:
Beenfetchedlately
03-09-2007, 11:59 AM
Fax sent.
Got it. The exhaust numbers. Do you remember what size pipe it was? What size intake and exhaust valves? CC of the runners?
Andrew
03-09-2007, 12:33 PM
Got it. The exhaust numbers. Do you remember what size pipe it was? What size intake and exhaust valves? CC of the runners?
I'm not sure that TEA told me what size pipe they used or the CC of the runners. I could call and find out...
Andrew
03-09-2007, 12:45 PM
Left a message for Tooley to call me back.
The Raven
03-09-2007, 12:50 PM
And? :rolleyes: Ill fax you a cookie back. :rolleyes:
Sweet!
Andrew
03-09-2007, 01:00 PM
Just an afterthought, if Paris designed the ports and worked at TEA, wouldn't he know what the runner volumes and typical flowbench procedures are?
Also, FWIW compression is ~11.3:1.
Beenfetchedlately
03-09-2007, 02:09 PM
Just an afterthought, if Paris designed the ports and worked at TEA, wouldn't he know what the runner volumes and typical flowbench procedures are?
Also, FWIW compression is ~11.3:1.yes but being able to remember completely and accurately is a different key here. :cool:
Just trying to get down to the nitty gritty.
Where do you want to make power?
For instance, If i can make power say 2000-6500 and shift by 6800 is that okay? Basically what is the ultimately the goal here? A deadly fast street car or alot of track time? Road coursing it? straight line?
Andrew
03-09-2007, 05:00 PM
yes but being able to remember completely and accurately is a different key here. :cool:
Just trying to get down to the nitty gritty.
Where do you want to make power?
For instance, If i can make power say 2000-6500 and shift by 6800 is that okay? Basically what is the ultimately the goal here? A deadly fast street car or alot of track time? Road coursing it? straight line?
Goals: Run a mid to high 10 second 1/4 mile time without weight reduction (~3300# race weight) on a 26" slick. I have 4.10 gears to be installed. I want it to be somewhat streetable (My MS4 was streetable to me FWIW) as I will daily drive it but I can put up with a lot. I will not go to the track very much but on occasion. Road racing doesn't really interest me too much but I might do an autocross here and there.
I have 1 3/4" headers, vortex ram air box, unported FAST 90, EWP, borla stinger and magnaflow x pipe without cats.
Andrew
03-10-2007, 01:23 PM
It doesn't look as bad as I remember... here's the dynographs from stock with boltons, cam only, and heads/intake.
http://www.yerot.com/~aweil/AndrewZ06Dyno.pdf
aggie97
03-15-2007, 07:36 PM
Road racing doesn't really interest me too much but I might do an autocross here and there.
Toss me the keys and let's go for a ride.....that purple beast in the garage would be for sale faster than a $5 hooker on harry hines! ;)
Beenfetchedlately
06-14-2007, 11:49 AM
It doesn't look as bad as I remember... here's the dynographs from stock with boltons, cam only, and heads/intake.
http://www.yerot.com/~aweil/AndrewZ06Dyno.pdf
Was doing some brainstorming today when Nate emailed me about his intake Chris was doing for him.
Your car came up when he was going to do some swapping to see what the gain is really worth vs porting.. etc.
First things first, we have a set of those heads at Chris's now. The exhaust port is less then stellar and by that I mean, no where on Chris's bench did he get the same numbers as your paper shows even with a pipe. I think the most he saw was 220 something. Paris did say TEA's customers would always question that and Brian would reflow them on the bench again, to verify the same numbers..The catch here was that they were flown on a bench that was already known to be high and to back up the claim of excessive high flow numbers he'd flow them again to show the repeated numbers he was giving with his heads.
Either way, you have the same problem or similar to like what we had with Boosted GT's car. His ended up being a back pressure issue. Without measuring with the tool we simply took fuel away where the numbers were dipping and it gave us the answer. The exhaust wasnt flowing enough to get it out of the chambers and we were running into an EGR effect. Id be interested to see your car on a chassis dyno and at the point the graph starts to dip take fuel away and see if the numbers climb. Its not necessarily a cam issue but if it does pick up it may be on the exhaust side of things. A super efficient exhaust bolted up to the head may help some but in the end all things considered, it will still be a weak exhaust port hindering your less then stellar results.
I think I heard you say you had TPIS LT's with an X-pipe. What size are the primaries, what crossover, cats, catback etc? We may be getting somewhere with your ride and even if you did port the intake it would most likely in the end make an EGR effect worse if thats what we are experiencing.
It could be a weak intake not able to flow the air needed being that it is in stock form. The runners may be too long for your application. Theres several scenarios to roll with but i need more input from you after a dyno session. 45 degree nose dives generally indicate a restriction somewhere or valvetrain instability.
He told me he put the stock titanium catback on...but I think i twas those headers with the x pipe.
Tell Chris I want my intake. :D
Beenfetchedlately
06-14-2007, 12:00 PM
He told me he put the stock titanium catback on...but I think i twas those headers with the x pipe.
Tell Chris I want my intake. :DGive him some time he said. He's measuring a carb intake to compare runner length with on the FAST and see where they come out.
Give him some time he said. He's measuring a carb intake to compare runner length with on the FAST and see where they come out.
It's all gravy, I still need to get the intake valley cover bolts and some new intake bolts.
Josh...where you at with my lid fool! (slownbmta!)
Beenfetchedlately
06-14-2007, 12:13 PM
It's all gravy, I still need to get the intake valley cover bolts and some new intake bolts.
Josh...where you at with my lid fool! (slownbmta!)
I like reusing the stock intake bolts because its easier to find a shorter socket to fit them.
The valley cover bolts I want to say are 8mm X 1.25 X 3/4"
I like reusing the stock intake bolts because its easier to find a shorter socket to fit them.
The valley cover bolts I want to say are 8mm X 1.25 X 3/4"
Well be a good lil boy and order me some would ya bitch? :p
Beenfetchedlately
06-14-2007, 01:19 PM
Well be a good lil boy and order me some would ya bitch? :p
Home depot and lowes are your friend bitch!
Andrew
06-14-2007, 01:25 PM
Was doing some brainstorming today when Nate emailed me about his intake Chris was doing for him.
Your car came up when he was going to do some swapping to see what the gain is really worth vs porting.. etc.
First things first, we have a set of those heads at Chris's now. The exhaust port is less then stellar and by that I mean, no where on Chris's bench did he get the same numbers as your paper shows even with a pipe. I think the most he saw was 220 something. Paris did say TEA's customers would always question that and Brian would reflow them on the bench again, to verify the same numbers..The catch here was that they were flown on a bench that was already known to be high and to back up the claim of excessive high flow numbers he'd flow them again to show the repeated numbers he was giving with his heads.
Either way, you have the same problem or similar to like what we had with Boosted GT's car. His ended up being a back pressure issue. Without measuring with the tool we simply took fuel away where the numbers were dipping and it gave us the answer. The exhaust wasnt flowing enough to get it out of the chambers and we were running into an EGR effect. Id be interested to see your car on a chassis dyno and at the point the graph starts to dip take fuel away and see if the numbers climb. Its not necessarily a cam issue but if it does pick up it may be on the exhaust side of things. A super efficient exhaust bolted up to the head may help some but in the end all things considered, it will still be a weak exhaust port hindering your less then stellar results.
I think I heard you say you had TPIS LT's with an X-pipe. What size are the primaries, what crossover, cats, catback etc? We may be getting somewhere with your ride and even if you did port the intake it would most likely in the end make an EGR effect worse if thats what we are experiencing.
It could be a weak intake not able to flow the air needed being that it is in stock form. The runners may be too long for your application. Theres several scenarios to roll with but i need more input from you after a dyno session. 45 degree nose dives generally indicate a restriction somewhere or valvetrain instability.
The primaries are 1 3/4", collectors are 3", then they neck down into a 2.5" xpipe and out a 2.5" catback. No cats on the car....
Oh and nate, you need buttonhead fasteners. Go to fastenal!
46Tbird
06-14-2007, 01:25 PM
Mike - ya fag. :p What you been up to lately man? You still messing with this LS1 crap? I figured you would have outgrown them by now. :D
slownbmta
06-14-2007, 01:34 PM
It's all gravy, I still need to get the intake valley cover bolts and some new intake bolts.
Josh...where you at with my lid fool! (slownbmta!)
It's still there :D
It's still there :D
go get it... :D
and Andrew...what fasteners do I need from there?
Andrew
06-14-2007, 01:50 PM
go get it... :D
and Andrew...what fasteners do I need from there?
All the information you need is in this thread.
If in doubt, call FAST and ask them... OR download the install manual from their website.
All the information you need is in this thread.
If in doubt, call FAST and ask them... OR download the install manual from their website.
Yeah I'm lazy you know that...
I was just seeing how long til you would refer me to that. I'll get around to looking up exactly what to get once I'm not slammed at work and only have 2 mins to check pm's and a few threads on here. :p
Beenfetchedlately
06-14-2007, 02:54 PM
Mike - ya fag. :p What you been up to lately man? You still messing with this LS1 crap? I figured you would have outgrown them by now. :D
Shit no man. I just picked up a block and some possible sponsorship on going FI. Could be interesting to see what the white car turns into.
46Tbird
06-14-2007, 05:41 PM
Awesome, good luck to you. :cool:
Forteen3GT
06-14-2007, 06:57 PM
Give him some time he said. He's measuring a carb intake to compare runner length with on the FAST and see where they come out.
what is the difference in cross sectional area and distance from valve to the top of the intake? also what runner length. I assume these questions are going to be vital to determine where he will peak on that setup.
I have a longer head runner, shorter intake runner, and larger cross sectional area...... I plan to peak over 6700..... might be the first L92 car to do such a thing. LOL...... advancing the cam as planned might just hold me back a bit. Otherwise I figured my setup would be good to peak at 7k or more Mike.
I am sure Chris has found out the same thing right?
BTW, he said he uses a 2.15 valve..... why why why.... the seat is smaller? why the extra flow to go over the valve?
what is the difference in cross sectional area and distance from valve to the top of the intake? also what runner length. I assume these questions are going to be vital to determine where he will peak on that setup.
I have a longer head runner, shorter intake runner, and larger cross sectional area...... I plan to peak over 6700..... might be the first L92 car to do such a thing. LOL...... advancing the cam as planned might just hold me back a bit. Otherwise I figured my setup would be good to peak at 7k or more Mike.
I am sure Chris has found out the same thing right?
BTW, he said he uses a 2.15 valve..... why why why.... the seat is smaller? why the extra flow to go over the valve?
Go ask the end all be all of head porters Greg Good why why why...even after he called Chris to ask what valve job he used....a 2.15...hmm...fuck off and die.
Beenfetchedlately
06-15-2007, 09:46 AM
Go ask the end all be all of head porters Greg Good why why why...even after he called Chris to ask what valve job he used....a 2.15...hmm...fuck off and die.
And for the correct information, Chris said he'd use a 2.125 valve in your heads if he had done them. Its funny though that im sure you mentioned that to Greg and then he puts them in your heads. Chris had already done a set of L92's for a customer in the Midwest that outperformed Tooley's TFS heads on an engine dyno.
Andrew
06-15-2007, 09:49 AM
And for the correct information, Chris said he'd use a 2.125 valve in your heads if he had done them. Its funny though that im sure you mentioned that to Greg and then he puts them in your heads. Chris had already done a set of L92's for a customer in the Midwest that outperformed Tooley's TFS heads on an engine dyno.
So when is Nate's intake going to be done? I want to do a before/after with my intake and his to see what the porting is worth...
Beenfetchedlately
06-15-2007, 10:09 AM
So when is Nate's intake going to be done? I want to do a before/after with my intake and his to see what the porting is worth...Dont know for sure yet. He's got to measure that carb intake for some comparison data to look at. He's off til Monday right now since his mom is in town from Florida that he never gets to see. If things go well 2 weeks out on the intake is my guess.
Does any of what I said make sense to you about the dip in teh graph and the 45 slant at the end?
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