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AL P
09-16-2006, 12:10 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/15/immigration.town.ap/index.html

STILLMORE, Georgia (AP) -- Trailer parks lie abandoned. The poultry plant is scrambling to replace more than half its workforce. Business has dried up at stores where Mexican laborers once lined up to buy food, beer and cigarettes just weeks ago.

This Georgia community of about 1,000 people has become little more than a ghost town since September 1, when federal agents began rounding up illegal immigrants.

The sweep has had the unintended effect of underscoring just how vital the illegal immigrants were to the local economy.

More than 120 illegal immigrants have been loaded onto buses bound for immigration courts in Atlanta, 189 miles away. Hundreds more fled Emanuel County. Residents say many scattered into the woods, camping out for days. They worry some are still hiding without food.

At least one child, born a U.S. citizen, was left behind by his Mexican parents: 2-year-old Victor Perez-Lopez. The toddler's mother, Rosa Lopez, left her son with Julie Rodas when the raids began and fled the state. The boy's father was deported to Mexico.

"When his momma brought this baby here and left him, tears rolled down her face and mine too," Rodas said. "She said, `Julie, will you please take care of my son because I have no money, no way of paying rent?"'

For five years, Rodas has made a living watching the children of workers at the Crider Inc. poultry plant, where the vast majority of employees were Mexican immigrants. She learned Spanish, and considered many immigrants among her closest friends. She threw parties for their children's birthdays and baptisms.

The only child in Rodas' care now, besides her own son, is Victor. Her customers have disappeared.

Federal agents also swarmed into a trailer park operated by David Robinson. Illegal immigrants were handcuffed and taken away. Almost none have returned. Robinson bought an American flag and posted it by the pond out front -- upside down, in protest.

"These people might not have American rights, but they've damn sure got human rights," Robinson said. "There ain't no reason to treat them like animals."

The raids came during a fall election season in which immigration is a top issue.

Illegal immigrant population doubles
Last month, the federal government reported that Georgia had the fastest-growing illegal immigrant population in the country. The number more than doubled from an estimated 220,000 in 2000 to 470,000 last year. This year, state lawmakers passed some of the nation's toughest measures targeting illegal immigrants, and Republican Gov. Sonny Perdue last week vowed a statewide crackdown on document fraud.

Other than the Crider plant, there isn't much in Stillmore. Four small stores, a coin laundry and a Baptist church share downtown with City Hall, the fire department and a post office. "We're poor but proud," Mayor Marilyn Slater said, as if that is the town motto.

The 2000 Census put Stillmore's population at 730, but Slater said uncounted immigrants probably made it more than 1,000. Not anymore, with so many homes abandoned and the streets practically empty.

"This reminds me of what I read about Nazi Germany, the Gestapo coming in and yanking people up," Slater said.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Marc Raimondi would not discuss details of the raids. "We can't lose sight of the fact that these people were here illegally," Raimondi said.

Businesses may have to close
At Sucursal Salina No. 2, a store stocked with Mexican fruit sodas and snacks, cashier Alberto Gonzalez said Wednesday that the owner may shutter the place. By midday, Gonzalez has had only six customers. Normally, he would see 100.

The B&S convenience store, owned by Keith and Regan Slater, the mayor's son and grandson, has lost about 80 percent of its business.

"These people come over here to make a better way of life, not to blow us up," complained Keith Slater, who keeps a portrait of Ronald Reagan on the wall. "I'm a die-hard Republican, but I think we missed the boat with this one."

Since the mid-1990s, Stillmore has grown dependent on the paychecks of Mexican workers who originally came for seasonal farm labor, picking the area's famous Vidalia onions. Many then took year-round jobs at the Crider plant, with a workforce of about 900.

Crider President David Purtle said the agents began inspecting the company's employment records in May. They found 700 suspected illegal immigrants, and supervisors handed out letters over the summer ordering them to prove they came to the U.S. legally or be fired. Only about 100 kept their jobs.

The arrests started at the plant September 1. During the Labor Day weekend, agents with guns and bulletproof vests converged on workers' homes after getting the addresses from Crider's files.

No people, no work
Antonio Lopez, who came here two years ago from Chiapas, Mexico, and worked at the Crider plant, said agents kicked in his front door. Lopez, 32, and his 15-year-old son were handcuffed and taken by bus to Atlanta with 30 others. Because of the boy, Lopez said, both were allowed to return. In his back pocket, he carries an order to return to Atlanta for a court hearing February 2.

But now, "there's no people here and I don't have any work," he said.

The poultry plant has limped along with half its normal workforce. Crider increased its starting wages by $1 an hour to help recruit new workers.

Stacie Bell, 23, started work canning chicken at Crider a week ago. She said the pay, $7.75 an hour, led her to leave her $5.60-an-hour job as a Wal-Mart cashier in nearby Statesboro. Still, Bell said she felt bad about the raids.

"If they knew eventually that they were going to have to do that, they should have never let them come over here," she said.







My favorite part is this:
"The poultry plant has limped along with half its normal workforce. Crider increased its starting wages by $1 an hour to help recruit new workers."

Gives you an idea of what happens once you don't have people who will work for jack shit.

Fox466
09-16-2006, 12:55 PM
Good last line, and so very true. If we get rid of them, our wages go up. So, for the slow ones, we have no more law breakers and our families are better off. Get the picture? Probably not but...

Sgt Beavis
09-16-2006, 03:34 PM
I know that the government is just doing it for show but the results can't be denied. Illegal immigrants are supressing wages.

Not only that, but every one of those illegals had to have had a fake Social Security number to get a job. How much identiy theft is this country going to put up with?

Casper
09-17-2006, 05:05 AM
That wouldn't happen in Hazzard county. Not on Roscoe P. Coaltrain's watch.

He would have supplied better ID for the workers.

Paladin
09-17-2006, 12:15 PM
Why do we have to resort to name calling and label them as liberals? LOL

I love this part, which will probably be lost to the bleeding hearts among us:

Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Marc Raimondi would not discuss details of the raids. "We can't lose sight of the fact that these people were here illegally," Raimondi said.

So where are the liberals from the site on this topic? LOL

12SecondT-Bird
09-17-2006, 02:34 PM
[QUOTE=Sgt Beavis] Illegal immigrants are supressing wages.

Are you serious? The damned Republican congress is supressing wages! They have given themselves seven (count them, 7) pay raises since they have raised the minimum wage in this country. If they were to raise the minimum wage, it stands to reason that people could afford to buy more, thus helping the economy.

egnorant
09-17-2006, 11:02 PM
Get me started on minimum wage.
Think about it.
If you make minimum you either need to work better or change jobs.
Increase in minumum wage pays only the very bottom of wage earners.
I had to exlain to a young lady making 1.35 (may be wrong figure as my memory bites)over minimum wage last time it went up that she got no raise.
And now she was only making .15 over minimum.
We watched as the headoffice sent in price increases to pay for the wage increase. Everyones costs went up....hard workers had less earning power and dregs had more money!
Union wages are also tied into minimum wage as a percent.
Say union contract says wages for building widgets will be twice minumum...
Old wage 5.00 widget makers get 10.00
New wage is 6.00 widget makers get 12.00.
Widget price goes up.
Taxes on wages go up for union and dregs...taxes on prices are more.
Winners of a minimum wage increase....dregs, Unions and government!!!
Which one are you?

Bruce

egnorant
09-17-2006, 11:05 PM
[QUOTE=Sgt Beavis] Illegal immigrants are supressing wages.

Are you serious? The damned Republican congress is supressing wages! They have given themselves seven (count them, 7) pay raises since they have raised the minimum wage in this country. If they were to raise the minimum wage, it stands to reason that people could afford to buy more, thus helping the economy.

I don't see Democrats turning down the increases.
Congress is full of crooks, deal makers and swindlers.
The trick is to elect one that is on your side and better than the rest!!

Bruce

HobieF3
09-17-2006, 11:27 PM
I'm not sure where I stand on minimum wage. The only time I worked at minimum wage was as a freshman in HS, it was 4.25 then. I was working for a small business and was very young, basically, the owner wanted to make sure I was going to stay around for awhile, could do what I said I could, and wasn't the typical shiftless-irresponsible teen.

After two months he bumped me up to 6.50 I think, never went down from there at any job I had that paid hourly as a kid.

In a business mgt class I had we went over some big corporations and how they pay people. Some jobs will always have a lot of turn-over, no matter what you pay (within reason) McDonalds spent a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to compensate people and make the job interesting, people still quit at the same rate. Basically, the job required such little skill, no matter what they paid, people got b-o-r-e-d and went elsewhere. It was cheaper for them to pay minimum wage and have 100% turn-over in a year in their entry-level positions, than pay more, and continue to have the same amount of turnover.

If minimum wage is increased, businesses like that will just pass the cost on to the consumer.

It's unfortunate that some people (very poorly educated people, immigrants,ex-cons) have to work jobs like that, but simply bumping the pay isn't the answer. Work there for awhile, get some experience, some job history, and move on, that's what MOST of those employers (fast food) expect you to do.

Danny
09-18-2006, 11:45 AM
If you're working for minimum wage, you're a worthless piece of shit anyway...

Unless you're a crip, then you're... well you're still worthless. But I'm more proud of you than some of those other non-crip worthless pieces of shit!

AL P
09-18-2006, 11:50 AM
It's unfortunate that some people (very poorly educated people, immigrants,ex-cons) have to work jobs like that, but simply bumping the pay isn't the answer. Work there for awhile, get some experience, some job history, and move on, that's what MOST of those employers (fast food) expect you to do.

Why do that when you can just sit in that job, doing jack shit and keep crying until the big bad government orders the big bad company you work for to give you a well deserved pay raise for doing work that a monkey could do?

Pro Trash
09-18-2006, 11:56 AM
Well they need to do that in Dallas for a change. I saw like 200 guys hanging out on the eastern side of 35 in Lewisville this weekend waiting for work, can bet money they were 80% plus illegals. We had some chick in our grad class this summer that kept trying to correct me by saying they weren't illegals the were simply un-registered LOL. Yep she was nuts.

line-em-up
09-19-2006, 05:12 PM
The section below demonstrates how illegal immigration is dragging our wages down. Now that they've left, it's already improving.

"The poultry plant has limped along with half its normal workforce. Crider increased its starting wages by $1 an hour to help recruit new workers.

Stacie Bell, 23, started work canning chicken at Crider a week ago. She said the pay, $7.75 an hour, led her to leave her $5.60-an-hour job as a Wal-Mart cashier in nearby Statesboro. Still, Bell said she felt bad about the raids."

It's about time the govt does something instead of just talking to get votes.

AL P
09-19-2006, 05:20 PM
It's about time the govt does something instead of just talking to get votes.

Don't fall for it. They aren't doing shit.

talisman
09-19-2006, 05:49 PM
Why do we have to resort to name calling and label them as liberals? LOL

I love this part, which will probably be lost to the bleeding hearts among us:

Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Marc Raimondi would not discuss details of the raids. "We can't lose sight of the fact that these people were here illegally," Raimondi said.

So where are the liberals from the site on this topic? LOL



90% of the poeple you call liberal on this site aren't liberals. That's where they are.


If they're here illegally... Fuck 'em.

Paladin
09-19-2006, 05:52 PM
90% of the poeple you call liberal on this site aren't liberals. That's where they are.


If they're here illegally... Fuck 'em.

LOL, then why did you feel the need to respond? Please don't try and argue you are conservative or even moderate.

talisman
09-19-2006, 05:55 PM
LOL, then why did you feel the need to respond? Please don't try and argue you are conservative or even moderate.




You like to put words in peoples mouths almost as much as cock, dontcha?

Paladin
09-19-2006, 05:56 PM
You like to put words in peoples mouths almost as much as cock, dontcha?

I may put words in your mouth, but I have no desire to put my cock there. LOL

talisman
09-19-2006, 05:57 PM
I may put words in your mouth, but I have no desire to put my cock there. LOL





Don't lie, big boy.

Paladin
09-19-2006, 05:59 PM
Don't lie, big boy.

I guess I will ask instead of putting words in your mouth, do you want to suck my dick?

talisman
09-19-2006, 06:01 PM
I guess I will ask instead of putting words in your mouth, do you want to suck my dick?



I wouldn't suck your dick with your mouth.

line-em-up
09-19-2006, 06:02 PM
Don't fall for it. They aren't doing shit.

That's funny, cause as I was typing that out, I was wondering to myself how much of what they did was just for show.

AL P
09-19-2006, 06:27 PM
That's funny, cause as I was typing that out, I was wondering to myself how much of what they did was just for show.

Exactly...they will put on a good show up until election time and that will be it. The corporations who pay the crooks in Congress don't want to lose their source of cheap as hell labor. And the average Joe gets to keep right on paying for the healthcare and social services for their labor pool.

Paladin
09-19-2006, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't suck your dick with your mouth.

You would die trying even if you wanted to.

Very interesting how gay sex is on your mind so much. But yeah, no gay guys get married to women, so you are safe, right? :rolleyes:

talisman
09-19-2006, 08:41 PM
You would die trying even if you wanted to.

Very interesting how gay sex is on your mind so much. But yeah, no gay guys get married to women, so you are safe, right? :rolleyes:





And the biggest homophobes are usually fags themselves. Aren't you married as well? Owned yourself in 3 posts. I'd say it's a new record, but it really isn't even close.

Paladin
09-19-2006, 09:18 PM
And the biggest homophobes are usually fags themselves. Aren't you married as well? Owned yourself in 3 posts. I'd say it's a new record, but it really isn't even close.


Yep, been married for 13 years. You forget one thing, you are the one who wanted to give me a blowjob, not the other way around.

Your fascination with gay marriage and performing oral sex on other males is probably a better indication of your sexuality than my opposition to gay marriage is about mine. I doubt your simple mind would agree, but that is just more proof of my point about you.

talisman
09-19-2006, 09:33 PM
You forget one thing, you are the one who wanted to give me a blowjob, not the other way around.







Quote/link?

Paladin
09-19-2006, 09:53 PM
Quote/link?

Post #17 this thread. You say I put words and cock in your mouth. So far, everytime I have had my cock in a girls mouth, they were giving me a blowjob.

talisman
09-19-2006, 10:03 PM
Post #17 this thread. You say I put words and cock in your mouth. So far, everytime I have had my cock in a girls mouth, they were giving me a blowjob.



Quote the word "My" in that post, please? I must have missed it.


Really? Every time you were getting a BJ, eh? What else would you be doing? Taking their temperature?

exlude
09-19-2006, 10:23 PM
sig check

talisman
09-19-2006, 10:29 PM
sig check




lmao! Yet, somewhere in that little tin brain of his, he thinks I offered it to him instead of vice versa. Perfect. This guy most be the most confused person on the internet.

Paladin
09-19-2006, 11:38 PM
Quote the word "My" in that post, please? I must have missed it.


Really? Every time you were getting a BJ, eh? What else would you be doing? Taking their temperature?

This from the guy who doesn't see why he gets labeled a liberal even though he comes into a thread making fun of liberals and picks a fight with a conservative.

An ardent defender of gay marriage talks about me putting words and cock in his mouth also? Hmmm, could be a pattern developing.

Paladin
09-19-2006, 11:40 PM
sig check

Are you still trying to join tally's crew by following him around with your nose up his ass? Just plain sad.

Maybe at the next meeting they will vote you in, after all, he is the leader.

exlude
09-20-2006, 12:27 AM
Are you still trying to join tally's crew by following him around with your nose up his ass? Just plain sad.

Maybe at the next meeting they will vote you in, after all, he is the leader.

I was unaware that Talisman had a crew. I also was unaware that I was following him. Since there are a whole two active threads in this forum, I'm frankly surprised that you came to that conclusion. You never fail to surprise me.

Casper
09-20-2006, 03:46 AM
Man, I need a crew! How do I go about it? Do I have to own some people first?

Paladin
09-20-2006, 11:02 AM
I was unaware that Talisman had a crew. I also was unaware that I was following him. Since there are a whole two active threads in this forum, I'm frankly surprised that you came to that conclusion. You never fail to surprise me.


Sadly you haven't ever surprised me. So what do you think about the point of the thread?

exlude
09-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Man, I need a crew! How do I go about it? Do I have to own some people first?

I think you have to apply through 90 Notch, he seems to know alot about these crews.

exlude
09-20-2006, 11:05 AM
Sadly you haven't ever surprised me. So what do you think about the point of the thread?

Good one! Get that one from reading the last sentence of my post or did someone read my post to you?

I think the point of the thread is a textbook case of spin, nothing terribly new.

Paladin
09-20-2006, 12:01 PM
Good one! Get that one from reading the last sentence of my post or did someone read my post to you?

I think the point of the thread is a textbook case of spin, nothing terribly new.

I am shocked, a liberal thinks it's spin!

exlude
09-20-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm literally ROFL at all the PMs this clown has sent me. It appears my pretty new sig. has him all upset. Unfortunately all he has been able to do is call me immature and a liberal (oh no!). Oh yeah, and an MS kid. *Pats 90 Notch on the back* Nice try, pal!

Btw slugger, so far, out of all the people who have made my sig. You have BY FAR exceeded any previous responses/reactions. It's entertainment such as you that keeps me coming back to this site *tear* :o

rlh1320
09-20-2006, 03:54 PM
Send 1 Illegal home and give that job to someone on welfare. Solve 2 problems at a time!

mikeb
09-20-2006, 04:46 PM
It is amazing that americans will in fact take jobs that "americans won't do" when the job pays enough for someone living here legally to make a living on the wage.

talisman
09-20-2006, 05:55 PM
I'm literally ROFL at all the PMs this clown has sent me. It appears my pretty new sig. has him all upset. Unfortunately all he has been able to do is call me immature and a liberal (oh no!). Oh yeah, and an MS kid. *Pats 90 Notch on the back* Nice try, pal!

Btw slugger, so far, out of all the people who have made my sig. You have BY FAR exceeded any previous responses/reactions. It's entertainment such as you that keeps me coming back to this site *tear* :o





LMGDAO. Forward that to me, if you don't mind. Funny how it's a big conspiracy when someone agrees with me, and points him out for being the tard he is. Obviously it's a well orchestrated conspiracy by the subversive liberal dfwstangs Krew. It couldn't possibly be that he is wrong, and misread something for the one billionth time.

Paladin
09-20-2006, 06:42 PM
I'm literally ROFL at all the PMs this clown has sent me. It appears my pretty new sig. has him all upset. Unfortunately all he has been able to do is call me immature and a liberal (oh no!). Oh yeah, and an MS kid. *Pats 90 Notch on the back* Nice try, pal!

Btw slugger, so far, out of all the people who have made my sig. You have BY FAR exceeded any previous responses/reactions. It's entertainment such as you that keeps me coming back to this site *tear* :o

I pm to ask why you quote me out of context and only partial sentences like a MS kid. I guess that makes me upset? I never asked you to stop, did I?

I was trying to point out how silly you are for doing it, since you would have to lie if anyone asked you and you didn't admit it was apartial and out of context quote.

You are one of only a few I have made fun of on this site, and amazingly, you are one of that same group who chose to quote me in your sig. At least the others didn't alter it like a MS kid.

Paladin
09-20-2006, 06:43 PM
LMGDAO. Forward that to me, if you don't mind. Funny how it's a big conspiracy when someone agrees with me, and points him out for being the tard he is. Obviously it's a well orchestrated conspiracy by the subversive liberal dfwstangs Krew. It couldn't possibly be that he is wrong, and misread something for the one billionth time.

I think Casper wants to join, can you get him in?

talisman
09-20-2006, 06:51 PM
Holy hell, you sent him SIX fucking PMs trying to get him to take it out of his sig? LMGDFAO!!!

exlude
09-20-2006, 06:53 PM
Seven, just got another.

talisman
09-20-2006, 06:55 PM
Seven, just got another.




I'm laughing so hard I think I just cracked a rib.

exlude
09-20-2006, 06:56 PM
I pm to ask why you quote me out of context and only partial sentences like a MS kid. I guess that makes me upset? I never asked you to stop, did I?


Lies! I'm fairly positive you never asked me that question.

Paladin
09-20-2006, 09:08 PM
Holy hell, you sent him SIX fucking PMs trying to get him to take it out of his sig? LMGDFAO!!!

If he told you I asked him to remove it, he is a liar. If he told you I thought he was a loser for doing partial quotes out of context, well he is getting a little closer to the truth.

I have not pm'd anyone else who quoted me correctly. If he had put a few "..." to indicate a partial sentence, it would have been correct.

Besides, you are the one who said I had put words and cock in your mouth. If any quote should be put in a sig, it should be that one. Maybe if I was still in middle school I would have.

talisman
09-20-2006, 09:17 PM
If he told you I asked him to remove it, he is a liar. If he told you I thought he was a loser for doing partial quotes out of context, well he is getting a little closer to the truth.

I have not pm'd anyone else who quoted me correctly. If he had put a few "..." to indicate a partial sentence, it would have been correct.

Besides, you are the one who said I had put words and cock in your mouth. If any quote should be put in a sig, it should be that one. Maybe if I was still in middle school I would have.




You still haven't quoted where I said "My" mouth. Go ahead, for the third time quote it. You can't, because it isn't there. Talk about out of context. Yet, exlude is wrong for screwing up your quote, right? I swear, it just never gets old.

exlude
09-20-2006, 11:07 PM
If he told you I asked him to remove it, he is a liar. If he told you I thought he was a loser for doing partial quotes out of context, well he is getting a little closer to the truth.

I have not pm'd anyone else who quoted me correctly. If he had put a few "..." to indicate a partial sentence, it would have been correct.

Besides, you are the one who said I had put words and cock in your mouth. If any quote should be put in a sig, it should be that one. Maybe if I was still in middle school I would have.

All I told him, outside of what was in your posts, was that you loved my sig.

Paladin
09-20-2006, 11:17 PM
You still haven't quoted where I said "My" mouth. Go ahead, for the third time quote it. You can't, because it isn't there. Talk about out of context. Yet, exlude is wrong for screwing up your quote, right? I swear, it just never gets old.

Maybe, instead of sending a pm to exlude, I should go to GC2 and whine like a bitch about what happened on this site. Or maybe just call me out to JITB.

You said I put words and cock in your mouth. You responded to 3 or 4 posts about me wondering why you wanted to suck my dick, then try to play it off like you didn't know what you did.

You do make me laugh tallywhacker. Has exlude been allowed into your crew?

Paladin
09-20-2006, 11:22 PM
All I told him, outside of what was in your posts, was that you loved my sig.

I told him, what was that my love

Should I put this in my sig? It is a partial out of context quote from you. Maybe the middle school kids will think I am smart like you.

Keep the sig, it makes you look so cool.

Jason94Cobra
09-20-2006, 11:31 PM
If they're here illegally... Fuck 'em.

Enough said... end of arguement

exlude
09-20-2006, 11:33 PM
Should I put this in my sig? It is a partial out of context quote from you. Maybe the middle school kids will think I am smart like you.

Keep the sig, it makes you look so cool.

Grasping...at...straws....REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH!

Sean88gt
09-20-2006, 11:48 PM
[QUOTE=Sgt Beavis] Illegal immigrants are supressing wages.

Are you serious? The damned Republican congress is supressing wages! They have given themselves seven (count them, 7) pay raises since they have raised the minimum wage in this country. If they were to raise the minimum wage, it stands to reason that people could afford to buy more, thus helping the economy.

Lessons in life son.

1) If you make minimum wage you have only failed yourself, try harder.
2) If minimum wage goes up, cost of everything rises, creating inflation making all increases in pay fully null in void - it's a sliding scale - notice how fuel prices have increased, everything has gone up??
3) Everyone would be better off if minimum wage went away.

talisman
09-21-2006, 06:09 AM
Maybe, instead of sending a pm to exlude, I should go to GC2 and whine like a bitch about what happened on this site. Or maybe just call me out to JITB.

You said I put words and cock in your mouth. You responded to 3 or 4 posts about me wondering why you wanted to suck my dick, then try to play it off like you didn't know what you did.

You do make me laugh tallywhacker. Has exlude been allowed into your crew?



Awww, someone has to change the subject because they don't have anything of susbstance to say about the current one. You keep saying "you SAID this," but you won't quote it, and I didn't say it. It's funny how staunchly you'll lie, yet you send another person 7 PMs because they made a partial quote from you their sig.

ClockwrkOrangeS4
09-21-2006, 11:41 AM
...Besides, you are the one who said I had put words and cock in your mouth. If any quote should be put in a sig, it should be that one.....

ummm, he didn't say that

wishful thinking?





btw LOL@ what you are about to say

Paladin
09-21-2006, 12:34 PM
Awww, someone has to change the subject because they don't have anything of susbstance to say about the current one. You keep saying "you SAID this," but you won't quote it, and I didn't say it. It's funny how staunchly you'll lie, yet you send another person 7 PMs because they made a partial quote from you their sig.

Watch the liar part, I am the kind of guy who would show up at JITB.

That is of course if it was somebody who wasn't a joke like you. I didn't think you would understand the pm part, since dealing man to man doesn't seem to be your thing.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 12:35 PM
ummm, he didn't say that

wishful thinking?





btw LOL@ what you are about to say

Damn, are you a liberal also? I think the LOL at what you say is also a given.

ClockwrkOrangeS4
09-21-2006, 12:54 PM
Damn, are you a liberal also? I think the LOL at what you say is also a given.

I don't claim a political party, I don't vote, and I don't bitch about politics.


I do however know how to read, which is something you don't seem to know much about. It doesn't surprise me seeing you make statements about people that have no merit or truth. You'd make a halfway decent politician. I still wouldn't vote.

exlude
09-21-2006, 01:32 PM
Damn, are you a liberal also? I think the LOL at what you say is also a given.

Who would of figured that the "LOL @ what you were about to say" would have nailed it on the fucking head like that! Holy shit, LOL @ instantly calling him a liberal!!!!!

AL P
09-21-2006, 02:13 PM
LOL at all you clowns and your pillow fight...

ClockwrkOrangeS4
09-21-2006, 02:16 PM
LOL at all you clowns and your pillow fight...

my bad, hell the only reason I'm in this thread is because of the PMs I got from 90 Notch asking if I'd let him put my dick in his mouth

which of course I declined.... sicko

Paladin
09-21-2006, 02:29 PM
I don't claim a political party, I don't vote, and I don't bitch about politics.


I do however know how to read, which is something you don't seem to know much about. It doesn't surprise me seeing you make statements about people that have no merit or truth. You'd make a halfway decent politician. I still wouldn't vote.

Me a politician? Just goes to show how little you know about me. LOL

Paladin
09-21-2006, 02:30 PM
my bad, hell the only reason I'm in this thread is because of the PMs I got from 90 Notch asking if I'd let him put my dick in his mouth

which of course I declined.... sicko

Yep, he declined. He said he already had too many dicks in his mouth to accomodate my whopper.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 02:32 PM
Who would of figured that the "LOL @ what you were about to say" would have nailed it on the fucking head like that! Holy shit, LOL @ instantly calling him a liberal!!!!!

You accuse me of reading comprehension issues? I didn't accuse him of being one, I asked.

I guess it is probably obvious who is since they came in this thread bashing liberals and were all hostile and angry. Imagine that, a liberal who is hostile!

ClockwrkOrangeS4
09-21-2006, 02:34 PM
Yep, he declined. He said he already had too many dicks in his mouth to accomodate my whopper.

zing!

AL P
09-21-2006, 02:35 PM
There are entirely too many dicks going in too many mouths in this thread. I'm just sayin'!!!

exlude
09-21-2006, 02:49 PM
You accuse me of reading comprehension issues? I didn't accuse him of being one, I asked.

I guess it is probably obvious who is since they came in this thread bashing liberals and were all hostile and angry. Imagine that, a liberal who is hostile!

Word of the day: insinuation! Don't play dumb (although it may be hard for you NOT to).

Allow me to remind you that I came in this thread with a simple sig. check AFTER you had sent me several PMs calling me names and the like. By your new found definition, are you a liberal?

Paladin
09-21-2006, 02:58 PM
Word of the day: insinuation! Don't play dumb (although it may be hard for you NOT to).

Allow me to remind you that I came in this thread with a simple sig. check AFTER you had sent me several PMs calling me names and the like. By your new found definition, are you a liberal?

WTF does any of that matter? You didn't have to come into this thread. Take responsibilityfor your actions son.

Part of the reason I am so good at picking out liberals like you is that I was one. I thought Jimmy Carter was a good President and I voted for Bill Clinton. The difference is that that I didn't deny my liberal tendencies and hide like a bitch. If you spew liberal hate or tow the liberal line, you are liberal. Just admit it! It is not a permanent problem, I even grew out of it and so can you.

line-em-up
09-21-2006, 02:59 PM
Man, this thread has totally wondered off topic.

46Tbird
09-21-2006, 03:13 PM
So,

Is it a bad thing to be liberal? :confused:

I think that when 90 Notch is calling someone is a liberal, he's really saying "dumbshit."

exlude
09-21-2006, 03:13 PM
WTF does any of that matter? You didn't have to come into this thread. Take responsibilityfor your actions son. I wasn't going to until I received atleast 3 PMs from you, then I came in just so a few others could laugh at you. [/quote] It matters because, again, you are being a hypocrite...and it's funny.

Part of the reason I am so good at picking out liberals like you is that I was one. I thought Jimmy Carter was a good President and I voted for Bill Clinton. The difference is that that I didn't deny my liberal tendencies and hide like a bitch. If you spew liberal hate or tow the liberal line, you are liberal. Just admit it! It is not a permanent problem, I even grew out of it and so can you.

Your diatribe aside, how well can you pack this statement up? I would like to see you quote me on this "spewing of liberal hate" or "towing the liberal line". I'm fairly positive you can't. I would like to see you try, but likes are that you are infact just "spewing" bullshit and trying to tow your sunk ship outta the depths. Please do not ignore this request as you have ignored the previous calling of your lies and conveniently forgot to attempt to substantiate them (even in this thread alone).

46Tbird
09-21-2006, 03:15 PM
You've said bad things about Bush, you God-damned liberal commie!



Don't worry, I'm irritated with him too and I'm as conservative as a ...... well, something conservative. Maybe that's because Bush isn't really a conservative. More like a capitalist puppet.

needsastang80
09-21-2006, 03:17 PM
Get me started on minimum wage.
Think about it.
If you make minimum you either need to work better or change jobs.
Increase in minumum wage pays only the very bottom of wage earners.
I had to exlain to a young lady making 1.35 (may be wrong figure as my memory bites)over minimum wage last time it went up that she got no raise.
And now she was only making .15 over minimum.
We watched as the headoffice sent in price increases to pay for the wage increase. Everyones costs went up....hard workers had less earning power and dregs had more money!
Union wages are also tied into minimum wage as a percent.
Say union contract says wages for building widgets will be twice minumum...
Old wage 5.00 widget makers get 10.00
New wage is 6.00 widget makers get 12.00.
Widget price goes up.
Taxes on wages go up for union and dregs...taxes on prices are more.
Winners of a minimum wage increase....dregs, Unions and government!!!
Which one are you?

BruceFUCK a union there one of the reason shit is out of hand, and US car companys are failing. uinons had their place in time now they are out dated and fuck the company which in turn fucks us. These raid should have been along time ago like 30 40 years ago when this shit started getting bad

exlude
09-21-2006, 03:19 PM
So,

Is it a bad thing to be liberal? :confused:

I think that when 90 Notch is calling someone is a liberal, he's really saying "dumbshit."

Listen to Dane Cook?

" 'One second, pal.'

Now, when somebody calls you pal and you're not pals...FUCK THAT!

It was the way he said pal. To me it sounded like fuck face...I still heard pal, but it was centered in a fuck face coding: 'One second, fuck-pal-face,' is what I heard! "

exlude
09-21-2006, 03:22 PM
You've said bad things about Bush, you God-damned liberal commie!


Don't worry, I'm irritated with him too and I'm as conservative as a ...... well, something conservative. Maybe that's because Bush isn't really a conservative. More like a capitalist puppet.

Camel? They conserve water pretty damn well.

Unfortunately, no matter who gets in...the future looks pretty dim if you are hoping for a non-capitalist-puppet.

Denny
09-21-2006, 03:32 PM
Camel? They conserve water pretty damn well.

Unfortunately, no matter who gets in...the future looks pretty dim if you are hoping for a non-capitalist-puppet.
Cacti also conserves water.

No such thing as a non-capitalist puppet. One of a puppet's traits is capitalism. LOL

exlude
09-21-2006, 03:35 PM
Cacti also conserves water.

No such thing as a non-capitalist puppet. One of a puppet's traits is capitalism. LOL

Cacti are cooler, I would go with that.

Lol, well, a non-puppet then :p

Paladin
09-21-2006, 03:38 PM
So,

Is it a bad thing to be liberal? :confused:

I think that when 90 Notch is calling someone is a liberal, he's really saying "dumbshit."

Nope, there is nothing worng with being a liberal. I just enjoy it when someone speaks like a liberal, spews liberal rhetoric, and then denies being one. There are legitimate ideas on both sides. I would find just as much humor in a person who spewed conservative rhetoric and then denied being conservative.

Maybe one of the liberals can answer why they deny being one or why the label to their ideas is so insulting.

Denny
09-21-2006, 03:40 PM
Cacti are cooler, I would go with that.

Lol, well, a non-puppet then :p
Pinnochio was a puppet that wasn't a puppet.

Denny
09-21-2006, 03:41 PM
Nope, there is nothing worng with being a liberal. I just enjoy it when someone speaks like a liberal, spews liberal rhetoric, and then denies being one. There are legitimate ideas on both sides. I would find just as much humor in a person who spewed conservative rhetoric and then denied being conservative.

Maybe one of the liberals can answer why they deny being one or why the label to their ideas is so insulting.
So you're saying you can't be anything but a liberal if you have some liberal ideas?

exlude
09-21-2006, 03:42 PM
Pinnochio was a puppet that wasn't a puppet.

We found our man (boy?). Too bad he was a lying sonuva B.

Denny
09-21-2006, 03:43 PM
We found our man (boy?). Too bad he was a lying sonuva B.
At least we will know when he does ;)

Paladin
09-21-2006, 03:44 PM
I wasn't going to until I received atleast 3 PMs from you, then I came in just so a few others could laugh at you. It matters because, again, you are being a hypocrite...and it's funny.



Your diatribe aside, how well can you pack this statement up? I would like to see you quote me on this "spewing of liberal hate" or "towing the liberal line". I'm fairly positive you can't. I would like to see you try, but likes are that you are infact just "spewing" bullshit and trying to tow your sunk ship outta the depths. Please do not ignore this request as you have ignored the previous calling of your lies and conveniently forgot to attempt to substantiate them (even in this thread alone).[/QUOTE]

I have pointed out several times when you were speaking liberal crap in other threads. It probably explains why you came in this thread in the first place and only addressed me, not the person who was making fun of you liberals in the original post.

I have not lied about you at all. I don't do research requests. You were there every time I called you a liberal.

I love how the guy who alters posts and presents them as complete calls someone else a liar. Classic!

Paladin
09-21-2006, 03:46 PM
So you're saying you can't be anything but a liberal if you have some liberal ideas?

Of course not.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 03:48 PM
You've said bad things about Bush, you God-damned liberal commie!



Don't worry, I'm irritated with him too and I'm as conservative as a ...... well, something conservative. Maybe that's because Bush isn't really a conservative. More like a capitalist puppet.

I don't think I have mentioned Bush once. Why do you bring him up when speaking about me?

exlude
09-21-2006, 04:01 PM
Well, I do support some of the more liberal ideas. No way would I deny that. Thus my considering myself moderate. But I'm looking for this "spewing" and "towing". If I really did such, it would be easy for you. But of course you will turn down the request because it's going to be neigh impossible to find anything.

You didn't lie to me, but you did lie when you said you asked me a certain question (I quoted in this thread, it's easy to find).

hotrod66stang
09-21-2006, 04:05 PM
It is amazing that americans will in fact take jobs that "americans won't do" EVEN when the job STILL DOESN'T pay enough for someone living here legally to make a living on the wage.
FIXED. You can't tell me that someone can make a living off of $7.xx an hour :( . But the point is duly noted. I have gotten into heated debates over this very topic of "jobs Americans won't do" bullshit. It has nothing to do with "won't do," and it has everything to do with "can't afford to do for the same price as someone shacked up in a house with 15 other people who share the bills." And for those of you who love taking counter-point and saying that Americans should work harder and do whatever's necessary to get that job and keep it.... I don't think Americans should have to subject themselves to those kinds of situations just to be able to afford to keep a job and not let it fall into the hands of someone here illegally.

exlude
09-21-2006, 04:30 PM
We are up to 13.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 04:31 PM
Well, I do support some of the more liberal ideas. No way would I deny that. Thus my considering myself moderate. But I'm looking for this "spewing" and "towing". If I really did such, it would be easy for you. But of course you will turn down the request because it's going to be neigh impossible to find anything.

You didn't lie to me, but you did lie when you said you asked me a certain question (I quoted in this thread, it's easy to find).

Shakes head at your denial of being liberal. LOL

I am sure Cindy Sheehan thinks she is a moderate, but that doesn't make it so. The liberal rhetoric isn't some new fancy phrase, it is the same stuff they always say. You finally admit you support it (or at least some of the MORE liberal ideas as you call it), therefore you spew it (when you say you support it) and tow the liberal line(which is the MORE liberal ideas you support) . How hard is that?

Thanks for the vindication, I honestly never thought I would get you to admit it. Now own it, live it, and love it. There is nothing to be ashamed of for honest liberal thoughts. Especially if you believe them and not just because you don't know any better.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 04:35 PM
We are up to 13.

And you have sent me the same number, why is it so important that you can count? LOL

Jarhead88
09-21-2006, 04:35 PM
I think I'd spend a night in jail if I saw someone hanging an American flag upside down! :mad:

exlude
09-21-2006, 04:36 PM
Shakes head at your denial of being liberal. LOL

I am sure Cindy Sheehan thinks she is a moderate, but that doesn't make it so. The liberal rhetoric isn't some new fancy phrase, it is the same stuff they always say. You finally admit you support it (or at least some of the MORE liberal ideas as you call it), therefore you spew it (when you say you support it) and tow the liberal line(which is the MORE liberal ideas you support) . How hard is that?

Thanks for the vindication, I honestly never thought I would get you to admit it. Now own it, live it, and love it. There is nothing to be ashamed of for honest liberal thoughts. Especially if you believe them and not just because you don't know any better.

It's hopeless, you're an idiot. I also support some of the more conservative ideas. It's a thought out balance of both. I have told you this several times, yet you fail to grasp it.

So you're saying you can't be anything but a liberal if you have some liberal ideas?
Of course not.

Sometimes I wonder if you even know what you are saying.

exlude
09-21-2006, 04:38 PM
And you have sent me the same number, why is it so important that you can count? LOL

I would figure you could understand the difference between the one initiating them and the one responding. Overestimating again!

14

Paladin
09-21-2006, 04:45 PM
It's hopeless, you're an idiot. I also support some of the more conservative ideas. It's a thought out balance of both. I have told you this several times, yet you fail to grasp it.




Sometimes I wonder if you even know what you are saying.

The supporter of more liberal ideas now supports more conservative ideas? And I am the one who is confused?

exlude
09-21-2006, 04:47 PM
The supporter of more liberal ideas now supports more conservative ideas? And I am the one who is confused?

I just sent you a PM explaining this, yes, you are very confused. Btw, try to read what I actually typed.

I said I support some of the more liberal ideas. As in, some of the ideas I support are left leaning. You are saying I support "more liberal ideas" as in a majority of my belief stands behind left-leaning idealogy. Got it yet?

Paladin
09-21-2006, 05:12 PM
I just sent you a PM explaining this, yes, you are very confused. Btw, try to read what I actually typed.

I said I support some of the more liberal ideas. As in, some of the ideas I support are left leaning. You are saying I support "more liberal ideas" as in a majority of my belief stands behind left-leaning idealogy. Got it yet?

LOL, got those claws going full speed in reverse now!

46Tbird
09-21-2006, 05:15 PM
Shakes head at your denial of being a dumbshit. LOL

I am sure Cindy Sheehan thinks she is a moderate dumbshit, but that doesn't make it so. The dumbshit rhetoric isn't some new fancy phrase, it is the same stuff they always say. You finally admit you support it (or at least some of the MORE dumbshit ideas as you call it), therefore you spew it (when you say you support it) and tow the dumbshit line(which is the MORE dumbshit ideas you support) . How hard is that?

Thanks for the vindication, I honestly never thought I would get you to admit it. Now own it, live it, and love it. There is nothing to be ashamed of for honest dumbshit thoughts. Especially if you believe them and not just because you don't know any better.Fixed.

And it is much funnier when read this way.

Towing the dumbshit line! Now that's comedy!

talisman
09-21-2006, 05:30 PM
Watch the liar part, I am the kind of guy who would show up at JITB.

That is of course if it was somebody who wasn't a joke like you. I didn't think you would understand the pm part, since dealing man to man doesn't seem to be your thing.


LOL, I love how you say something, then backpeddle it one sentence later. Fits in quite well with your hyprcritical lying about what I said, but wanting exlude to take a partial quote out of his sig. You want to "deal with me, man to man?" More faggotry coming from your keyboard? This is definetly one of the funniest dumbshit posts on your part, Notch. Considering the vast quantity of them, that's saying more than a "mouthful."

Paladin
09-21-2006, 06:04 PM
Fixed.

And it is much funnier when read this way.

Towing the dumbshit line! Now that's comedy!

Your version is pretty damn funny.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 06:08 PM
LOL, I love how you say something, then backpeddle it one sentence later. Fits in quite well with your hyprcritical lying about what I said, but wanting exlude to take a partial quote out of his sig. You want to "deal with me, man to man?" More faggotry coming from your keyboard? This is definetly one of the funniest dumbshit posts on your part, Notch. Considering the vast quantity of them, that's saying more than a "mouthful."

Gonna go whine about it over on some other site? Whaaaa! Whaaaa!

Please quote or show me where I have ever asked him to take anything out of his sig. Another lie by whoever says that.

I would definitley deal with any serious person man to man, therefore you are not one I have to worry about. Besides, I would be the only man there. LOL

exlude
09-21-2006, 06:12 PM
LOL, got those claws going full speed in reverse now!

Like I said in response to your 13th PM (or was it 14th?). It would be backpeddling if I was changing what I said in the first place. But, no, what I said in the first place still stands.

You not being able to comprehend is a completely different matter. I explained it to you. Not much else I can do to help you on this one. You will, however, need to be able to understand plain English, in simple to moderate complexity, before you can ever hope to discuss politics with me. No wonder you have been so lost for so long.

talisman
09-21-2006, 06:15 PM
Gonna go whine about it over on some other site? Whaaaa! Whaaaa!

Please quote or show me where I have ever asked him to take anything out of his sig. Another lie by whoever says that.

I would definitley deal with any serious person man to man, therefore you are not one I have to worry about. Besides, I would be the only man there. LOL



Sure, I'll go ahead and do that when you quote me saying what you keep insisting I said, yet didn't. Isn't this Request #5? You talk yourself around in circles so much, I think most of the time you forget what we were even talking about to begin with. Once again:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j23/talismanthirteen/inconceivable.jpg

Paladin
09-21-2006, 06:15 PM
Like I said in response to your 13th PM (or was it 14th?). It would be backpeddling if I was changing what I said in the first place. But, no, what I said in the first place still stands.

You not being able to comprehend is a completely different matter. I explained it to you. Not much else I can do to help you on this one. You will, however, need to be able to understand plain English, in simple to moderate complexity, before you can ever hope to discuss politics with me. No wonder you have been so lost for so long.

exlude//Claws getting tired, must rest, claws getting tired, must rest!//exlude

talisman
09-21-2006, 06:18 PM
exlude//Claws getting tired, must rest, claws getting tired, must rest!//exlude




This is the comeback of a child.

exlude
09-21-2006, 06:26 PM
exlude//Claws getting tired, must rest, claws getting tired, must rest!//exlude

Wow, keep repeating it and then it might hold some credence. Good luck! Will fill your time while you ignore all the shit in this thread that has burried you.

Telltale sign of your lack of intelligence is how you latch on to a few barely capable insults. This can be seen in your (as has been noticed) use of the word liberal as an insult, your repeating of MS kid, and now this ficticious backtracking? You obviously don't have the ingenuity or wit to be able to muster up anything else. Even when as wrong as you, someone with some intelligence would be able to find SOME substantiation. You, well, you just ignore it thinking (hoping? praying?) that the rest of us do the same.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 06:27 PM
Sure, I'll go ahead and do that when you quote me saying what you keep insisting I said, yet didn't. Isn't this Request #5? You talk yourself around in circles so much, I think most of the time you forget what we were even talking about to begin with. Once again:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j23/talismanthirteen/inconceivable.jpg

You quote me my quote when the other quote from the first quote gets quoted. OK?

I did find a funny quote from some voluntary research.

Originally Posted by talisman
"You don't have to thank ME for your dimished metal capacity. All I do is point it out."

Paladin
09-21-2006, 06:27 PM
Wow, keep repeating it and then it might hold some credence. Good luck! Will fill your time while you ignore all the shit in this thread that has burried you.

Damn, keep saying it and maybe it will come true.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 06:29 PM
This is the comeback of a child.

You must respond at the level the intended recipient will comprehend. It is the same reason the responses to you are for the mentally challenged.

exlude
09-21-2006, 06:30 PM
Damn, keep saying it and maybe it will come true.

Good one! Is that another one you borrowed from me? Read the edit, this quoted post furthers that claim.

Paladin
09-21-2006, 08:59 PM
Good one! Is that another one you borrowed from me? Read the edit, this quoted post furthers that claim.

I usually tire of the average nimrod pretty quickly. But you are no average nimrod.

exlude
09-21-2006, 09:26 PM
I usually tire of the average nimrod pretty quickly. But you are no average nimrod.

Well, I'm used to arguing with people who can atleast provide evidence and/or substantiate even to the smallest degree any of their claims. You make it a cake walk by doing none. Every single time you have been asked to provide some semblance of matter that could follow what you are saying, you have ignored it and/or declined. You, my little clown, are a cakewalk.

I'm frankly amazed you havn't electrocuted yourself from the drivel running down your lips onto the keyboard.

Casper
09-22-2006, 04:36 AM
FIXED. You can't tell me that someone can make a living off of $7.xx an hour :( . But the point is duly noted. I have gotten into heated debates over this very topic of "jobs Americans won't do" bullshit. It has nothing to do with "won't do," and it has everything to do with "can't afford to do for the same price as someone shacked up in a house with 15 other people who share the bills." And for those of you who love taking counter-point and saying that Americans should work harder and do whatever's necessary to get that job and keep it.... I don't think Americans should have to subject themselves to those kinds of situations just to be able to afford to keep a job and not let it fall into the hands of someone here illegally.


Its because the Central Americans want the free ride that America offers. Period. If it were anything welse then why couldn't they find any labor at $7-$12/hour in Cancun after the hurricane in 05? There were plenty of jobs, I know a few people who went and made a killing. Got paid in cash mostly too.

Paladin
09-22-2006, 12:03 PM
Well, I'm used to arguing with people who can atleast provide evidence and/or substantiate even to the smallest degree any of their claims. You make it a cake walk by doing none. Every single time you have been asked to provide some semblance of matter that could follow what you are saying, you have ignored it and/or declined. You, my little clown, are a cakewalk.

I'm frankly amazed you havn't electrocuted yourself from the drivel running down your lips onto the keyboard.

This is the problem you have, you have been arguing with me and I have been making fun of you. You take yourself too seriously, especially since no one else does, except maybe tallywhacker, and well he is just tallywhacker. LOL

01WhiteCobra
09-22-2006, 01:26 PM
LMAO, its nice to go though months of major changes and come back here and see everything is still status quo.

Nice to read ya' Notch!

exlude
09-22-2006, 01:33 PM
This is the problem you have, you have been arguing with me and I have been making fun of you. You take yourself too seriously, especially since no one else does, except maybe tallywhacker, and well he is just tallywhacker. LOL

We call that integrity. Because, when I make fun of you...I can support it. So the laughter comes from a criticism of you and your failures. When you make fun of me, you're just chuckin' shit.

Paladin
09-22-2006, 01:59 PM
LMAO, its nice to go though months of major changes and come back here and see everything is still status quo.

Nice to read ya' Notch!

I was wondering where you have been.

Paladin
09-22-2006, 02:00 PM
We call that integrity. Because, when I make fun of you...I can support it. So the laughter comes from a criticism of you and your failures. When you make fun of me, you're just chuckin' shit.

Yeah, you are one great guy. If only everyone was as great as you are. :rolleyes:

talisman
09-22-2006, 05:27 PM
I was wondering where you have been.





I sent him a PM.

Paladin
09-22-2006, 05:57 PM
I sent him a PM.

Do you want a medal?

I guess I should care? LOL

talisman
09-22-2006, 05:59 PM
Do you want a medal?






Going to carve some off the piece in your head?

Paladin
09-22-2006, 06:04 PM
Going to carve some off the piece in your head?

Nope, can't stand the sparks.