Ufc

[supercharged99GT]

i think its going to be a badass season. watched it tonite and man looks good to me. shamrock is a badass and tito is a cocky guy so its gna be interesting to say the least

[idrivea4banger]

shamrock's team all the way

[supercharged99GT]

i agree, shamrock is gna end up knocking tito out. i can feel it.

[DON SVO]

Pride FC.

[HELLAkulechic]

to be honest i can't decide who has the better competitors, but i hate shamrock so i will go with ortiz.

[supercharged99GT]

i liked shamrocks strategy, pick one he thought could beat the one just chosen. ortiz is to cocky for me. liked how he said, "thats how it usually happens when i face shamrock, i ususally come out ahead in the end"... what the fuck anyone have video of their previous fights?

to be honest i can't decide who has the better competitors, but i hate shamrock so i will go with ortiz.

[HELLAkulechic]

i liked shamrocks strategy, pick one he thought could beat the one just chosen. ortiz is to cocky for me. liked how he said, "thats how it usually happens when i face shamrock, i ususally come out ahead in the end"... what the fuck anyone have video of their previous fights?

yeah, i didn't like that comment. When they fought shamrock was fucked up! I mean FUCKED UP!

Yes, his strategy was good though. Apparently it worked for this first elimination, but that guy was a pansy anyway. We'll see.

[supercharged99GT]

i want video damnit. i saw one of shamrocks fights were he shattered the dudes ankle. damn that hurt even me.

[04V6STANG]

i liked shamrocks strategy, pick one he thought could beat the one just chosen. ortiz is to cocky for me. liked how he said, "thats how it usually happens when i face shamrock, i ususally come out ahead in the end"... what the fuck anyone have video of their previous fights?
From what I've seen Tito and Ken only fought once back in 01. Tito did hand Ken his ass. They are supposed to be having a rematch in July. Should be a way better fight this time around. Ken really hates Tito and I think he's gonna train even harder this time.

[Sergio]

i want video damnit. i saw one of shamrocks fights were he shattered the dudes ankle. damn that hurt even me.

they aired the ortiz/shammrock fight last week on spike... Ken got his ass whipped

i hope they have a closer fight after season 3 is done :cool:

[Matt93Cobra]

Not really sure which team will "win." I will tell you this right now. Michael "The Count" Bisping (the English LHW) will win it all!

[10sec302]

If Ken wins it'll have to be by knockout because I watched that fight live back in 01' and yes Tito beat his ass. Tito will have more stamina than Ken. Tito could have easily submitted him but wanted him to make him look as bad as possible, which he did a good job of. Kens face looked like someone took a ball-pined hammer and hit him damn near everywhere.

as far as the training part goes, when Ken fought Tito the first time, the commentator said that Ken trained more for that fight than any other one and was in the best shape of his life. I think maybe after this fight, whether ken wins or loses, he should give it up. His time has come and gone, just like Randys

[Juiced89lx]

go read some interviews after the fight. Its widely known that Ken fought with a torn acl. Kind of hard to throw punches with no pivot leg. Even harder to shoot on someone a bum knee.
It will be a much more competitive fight this time around, but I still think Tito will win..

[Nate]

go read some interviews after the fight. Its widely known that Ken fought with a torn acl. Kind of hard to throw punches with no pivot leg. Even harder to shoot on someone a bum knee.
It will be a much more competitive fight this time around, but I still think Tito will win..

What the hell do you know about MMA? :rolleyes:

[TrueBlueGT]

I think Tito will win the fight too, but if you were able to put the young Ken vs Tito, I think Ken would have taken him. Kens body has taken too much abuse like Randy's over the years. Combat sports will always be a young mans sport. Once you start to age, you start loosing your ability to continue at the top level.

[JKD]

After the beating Ortiz is about to dish out on Griffin, old Ken will wet his Depends and change his mind. :D

One thing Ken cannot change and cannot train away, his arrogance and time. He's let Ortiz get under skin which always ruins a fighters judgement. I say arrogance only because he thinks he can stop time and be able to compete with Ortiz.

Ortiz is going to make an example out of Griffin and Ortiz because he wants a rematch with Lidell BAD.

[Matt93Cobra]

I think Tito will win the fight too, but if you were able to put the young Ken vs Tito, I think Ken would have taken him. Kens body has taken too much abuse like Randy's over the years. Combat sports will always be a young mans sport. Once you start to age, you start loosing your ability to continue at the top level.

This is what it boils down to.....Ken has not evolved for shit in the sport of MMA. Yes he was considered a badass in a day and time in which submissions and the defense of them was not widely known as it is today. Go back and watch UFC 1, Ken came in w/a wealth of experience from Pancrase fighting (MMA in Japan) and looked like a hard ass. Then he fought Royce Gracie and got tapped twice in the same fight. He didn't look that good once he faced a good BJJ practioner.

Ken has dropped 4 of his last 5 fights and his 1 win came against a not so great fighter in Kimo. If you saw the show last week, you noticed he said he's not a BJJ guy. I guess his lack of interest in BJJ might explain why he has not evolved. The game has passed him by and Tito is going to make him look really old.

[BP]

Tito's first pick seemed to be more out of sympathy than desire to win. I think Tito is a much better trainer though and overall his team is going to do considerably better.

[10sec302]

After the beating Ortiz is about to dish out on Griffin, old Ken will wet his Depends and change his mind. :D

One thing Ken cannot change and cannot train away, his arrogance and time. He's let Ortiz get under skin which always ruins a fighters judgement. I say arrogance only because he thinks he can stop time and be able to compete with Ortiz.

Ortiz is going to make an example out of Griffin and Ortiz because he wants a rematch with Lidell BAD.

If you think Tito is going to put a beating on Forrest you have another thing coming. He might win, but IMO it'll go the distance because obviously Forrest has a good chin.

When you said, "Ortiz is going to make an example out of Griffin and Ortiz because he wants a rematch with Lidell BAD."

Did you mean to say Griffin and Ken?

He can get his rematch with Liddell but he's gonna get his ass knocked out AGAIN!!! Tito is nowhere near the level of Liddell and honestly, I dont ever see Tito winning enough fights to get to rematch Liddell.

And he might talk this and talk that, but Tito doesnt want any of Chuck, he ducked him for how long before he fought him??? :rolleyes:

[Billzabub]

Tito's first pick seemed to be more out of sympathy than desire to win. I think Tito is a much better trainer though and overall his team is going to do considerably better.


editing, my man...

"Matt comes to The Ultimate Fighter 3 with an incredible athletic resume. The 2004 inductee in the Division III Wrestling Hall of Fame was the first U.S. wrestler to win gold medals in freestyle and Greco Roman competition in the 1997 World Games for the Deaf. The three-time NCAA National Champion attended the National Technical Institute for the Deaf in Rochester. Matt has been featured in Sports Illustrated’s “Faces in the Crowd” and was featured on the cover of NCAA News as a junior at RIT. In 1997, he was named USA Deaf Sports Federation Athlete of the Year. Born and raised in Cincinnati, Matt is a graduate of Loveland High School in Cincinnati, Ohio. The Bengals fan trains with The Ultimate Fighter Season 2 coach and UFC Middleweight champion, Rich Franklin."

I think they may be setting him up as a dark horse sentimental favorite for viewers to pull for - he's no slouch by any means.

[JKD]

If you think Tito is going to put a beating on Forrest you have another thing coming. He might win, but IMO it'll go the distance because obviously Forrest has a good chin.

When you said, "Ortiz is going to make an example out of Griffin and Ortiz because he wants a rematch with Lidell BAD."

Did you mean to say Griffin and Ken?

He can get his rematch with Liddell but he's gonna get his ass knocked out AGAIN!!! Tito is nowhere near the level of Liddell and honestly, I dont ever see Tito winning enough fights to get to rematch Liddell.

And he might talk this and talk that, but Tito doesnt want any of Chuck, he ducked him for how long before he fought him??? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I meant Ken. Got ahead myself while typing. :)

I'm gonna have to disagree with you. Alot of people underestimate Ortiz because he's lost a couple of his last fights, but look whom he lost to, Liddel and Couture. It was Tito's own fault against Liddel for sure, he didnt have enough respect for Chuck's stand up and tried to take him that way and he paid the price. BUT, if he stuck to his game plan like he should have he would have destroyed Lidell on the ground. You can say what you want about Ortiz, but one thing you cannot say about him is that he is a dumb fighter, he's a very intelligent fighter and won't make the same mistake twice.

As for Ortiz vs Griffin. You're giving Griffin WAY too much respect. He's nowhere near the level of Ortiz. He can have all the chin in the world, it won't stop Ortiz from submitting his ass in the FIRST ROUND. Even Vegas has Griffin at 150-1. If I were Griffin, I'd be asking Dana WHite wtf I did wrong to deserve this match. Griffin maybe able to handle Ortiz in the future, but not now. He still doesnt have enough experience. Ortiz has more to prove now then ever and unfortunately Griffin is going to be the example.

[StangTamer]

I think Griffin is going to take Titio because IMO Griffin is a better fighter standing and on the ground. All I see out of Tito is ground and pound and a weak stand up game with a questionable chin. Griffin will work for submissions from his back instead of just laying there and get beat down, plus he can bang standing up.

As for Shamrock, I hate to say it, but he is a joke. Shamrock isn't a KO artist (but he has got better at stand up) and he is worthless from his back on the ground. The only chance Shamrock has of beating Tito is by KO'ing Tito. Though Shamrock doesn't have a whole lot of KO power, I think it is possible because Titos chin isn't that great. Shamrock IMO is in it for the money and nothing else, the only reason he is still around is because he brings alot of drama with his game and people like that. It is a bit played out (wwf style) to me. But I will have to say it is fun to watch. I like Ken but I feel sorry for him because he shouldn't be fighting anymore.

[cryptic5.0]

Well, I hope Ken's team wins simply because I can not stand Tito. He comes across as a huge prick in my opinion, and I lose a lot of respect for people that act like that.

As far as Ken vs Tito, I hate to say it but it won't even be a fight. Tito will punish Ken. Like others have said, Ken has reached the age where he just can't compete anymore. It will be a very sad fight, and probably end in the 1st round.

As for the Forrest vs Tito fight, I don't know. You could argue that it will be nothing more than practice for Tito, because of his experience, but at the same time I have to give Forrest credit. He can take some rough punches as well as give some out. Plus I think he is probably training as hard as possible for this fight because he knows that if he can go out there and put a hurt on Tito, it will help his rep, and status as a real fighter in the UFC. Either way, it should be an exciting match.

[10sec302]

The part of this sport that I like the most, is that a fight can change hands by a single punch, or single mistake.

Yes, I'll agree with anyone that Tito has experience in the octagon that Griffin doesn't and he may very well win, but I don't think it's going to be a punishment. The biggest mistake I think was them putting N.Quarry in the ring with R.Franklin. Now that was a perfect example of a fighter not being ready. Even Tito has said that Griffin has come a long way and has gained a lot of experience and it should be a good fight. I guess this Saturday will tell.

My prediction is that Ken will try to submitt Tito fast because in Kens mind, he knows and understands that he can't go the distance with Tito, I don't care how much training he has. You can't have a defense against age.

Tito is a punk, and when he gave the Lions Den the finger(s) that was the ultimate show of disrespect. Every since he did that I've lost ALL respect for Tito Ortiz as a fighter. Yes, he's funny as hell when it comes to him and Ken getting into it, and it makes a good show, but in all honesty Ken Shamrock (IMO) deserves more credit as a fighter than Tito every will.

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As far as a Ortiz vs. Liddell rematch. If and I say a HUGE if, that ever happens, Tito will lose again. Liddell has excellent defense against the takedown (which is what Tito is good at) and Tito can't bang with Chuck. Tito goes 0-2 in Ortiz/Liddell2.

[The Big Matt]

Funny, everyone hates Tito, and his cocky attitude, etc... Don't you think that's exactly how he's been marketed? You had the Nice Guy all american Couture, then the Cold emotionless assassin Liddell, and the cocky, trash talking young punk Ortiz.

It's as much marketed and planned as wrestling. They have to have rivalaries in the main events, it has to sell. 90 percent of the people who order ppv's or buy tickets to events are nothing more than boxing/wrestling fans, who just like seeing people fight. They know nothing of varying styles.. Want proof? How many times do you hear the crowd boo when it's a technical ground fight? Or when two guys are measuring eachother up, standing, catching their breath, etc... People watching have no clue.

As for this season, i hope Tito's team wins. I think he picked some pretty stout guys. As far as the Deaf guy. That kid is an animal, regardless of his hearing. Lister is no slouch, and he wanted to keep rolling with him, over and over.

Now for the fights... Ken vs Tito... Uhhhh, again, Ken's gonna come out of this looking like a face full of ground beef. The Forrest/Ortiz fight is gonna be good. But there's a reason vegas has the odds on Tito. Forrest just doesn't have the ability right now to take on a Tito/Liddell/Couture. I think he rocks, he's one of my favorites by far. But he's gonna get beat, and that too is in the cards. He needs a fight like this to let everyone see where he stands. But at the same time he has a chance just like anyone else, he could pull it off.

[The Big Matt]

ok, and as for the Griffin vs Quarry debate...

They are both on the exact same level... Forrest with 14 fights 2 losses, and Quarry with 10 fights 2 losses. Quarry stepped in the right with a top calibur fighter. Here's Forrest's chance to do the same.

Forrest's losses come from Jeremy Horn and Dan Severn
Nate's losses come from Gustavo Muchado and Rich Franklin

I think both of them are gonna be big in the future

[10sec302]

Funny, everyone hates Tito, and his cocky attitude, etc... Don't you think that's exactly how he's been marketed? You had the Nice Guy all american Couture, then the Cold emotionless assassin Liddell, and the cocky, trash talking young punk Ortiz.

It's as much marketed and planned as wrestling. They have to have rivalaries in the main events, it has to sell. 90 percent of the people who order ppv's or buy tickets to events are nothing more than boxing/wrestling fans, who just like seeing people fight. They know nothing of varying styles.. Want proof? How many times do you hear the crowd boo when it's a technical ground fight? Or when two guys are measuring eachother up, standing, catching their breath, etc... People watching have no clue.

As for this season, i hope Tito's team wins. I think he picked some pretty stout guys. As far as the Deaf guy. That kid is an animal, regardless of his hearing. Lister is no slouch, and he wanted to keep rolling with him, over and over.

Now for the fights... Ken vs Tito... Uhhhh, again, Ken's gonna come out of this looking like a face full of ground beef. The Forrest/Ortiz fight is gonna be good. But there's a reason vegas has the odds on Tito. Forrest just doesn't have the ability right now to take on a Tito/Liddell/Couture. I think he rocks, he's one of my favorites by far. But he's gonna get beat, and that too is in the cards. He needs a fight like this to let everyone see where he stands. But at the same time he has a chance just like anyone else, he could pull it off.

Personally I dont think this sport has yet evolved to publicity. You can't really "fake" getting knocked out. This aint wrestling!
Yes 90% of the fans are nothing more than wresling/boxing fans who like seeing people fight. You don't really expect Golf or chess fans to be watching them fight on ppv do you??????????

[The Big Matt]

Personally I dont think this sport has yet evolved to publicity. You can't really "fake" getting knocked out. This aint wrestling!
Yes 90% of the fans are nothing more than wresling/boxing fans who like seeing people fight. You don't really expect Golf or chess fans to be watching them fight on ppv do you??????????

Oh it definately has. You don't think before the Tito/Shamrock fight, the first one, they asked Tito to step it up and get a rivalry started? He didn't just dislike Ken from day one. No, he created an image for himself, flipping people off, being the "Hunington Beach Badboy". And of course Ken was the good old boy, classic respectible fighter. They wanted Tito and Ken to hate eachother on TV, they wanted the rivalry to be a BIG one. It sells tickets.

If you don't think UFC, Pride, etc has a full blow marketing department who's looking for angles, grudges, or even creating rivalries, then you are dead wrong. It's a business like any other. Now I'm in no way comparing this to wrestling, and their predetermined winners, etc. I'm just saying fighting alone does not captivate an audience. People watching need heros and villians, people they can cheer for. People with a story. How many times has a seasoned fighter faught UFC, that the general public hasn't heard of, and people booed becaue the pace of the fight was slow, or the fight ended up on the ground? I'm sure if you're watching it on TV you wouldn't know. But ask the rest of us who have been there live for quite a few fights. It's almost disheartening to hear the fans boo the fight, when they are doing exactly what they are paid to do.

Common fans want action, blood, broken bones, an knockouts. Not many at all care for the perfectly executed submission.

[OMEGA DOOM]

Oh it definately has. You don't think before the Tito/Shamrock fight, the first one, they asked Tito to step it up and get a rivalry started? He didn't just dislike Ken from day one. No, he created an image for himself, flipping people off, being the "Hunington Beach Badboy". And of course Ken was the good old boy, classic respectible fighter. They wanted Tito and Ken to hate eachother on TV, they wanted the rivalry to be a BIG one. It sells tickets.

If you don't think UFC, Pride, etc has a full blow marketing department who's looking for angles, grudges, or even creating rivalries, then you are dead wrong. It's a business like any other. Now I'm in no way comparing this to wrestling, and their predetermined winners, etc. I'm just saying fighting alone does not captivate an audience. People watching need heros and villians, people they can cheer for. People with a story. How many times has a seasoned fighter faught UFC, that the general public hasn't heard of, and people booed becaue the pace of the fight was slow, or the fight ended up on the ground? I'm sure if you're watching it on TV you wouldn't know. But ask the rest of us who have been there live for quite a few fights. It's almost disheartening to hear the fans boo the fight, when they are doing exactly what they are paid to do.

Common fans want action, blood, broken bones, an knockouts. Not many at all care for the perfectly executed submission.well said, Big mattster! :D

[Zinc_Stang]

Team Shackles is a joke, at least Ortiz actually trains and teaches his guys.

[mmafan]

Tito's first pick seemed to be more out of sympathy than desire to win. I think Tito is a much better trainer though and overall his team is going to do considerably better.

tito's first pick was not out of sympathy!! if you go back and watch episode 1 again, the deaf guy impressed the hell out of tito, showed him he had a ton of heart, and obviously that was enouygh for tito.

[Zinc_Stang]

Where are all the Shamcrack fans? :D

[10sec302]

Oh it definately has. You don't think before the Tito/Shamrock fight, the first one, they asked Tito to step it up and get a rivalry started? He didn't just dislike Ken from day one. No, he created an image for himself, flipping people off, being the "Hunington Beach Badboy". And of course Ken was the good old boy, classic respectible fighter. They wanted Tito and Ken to hate eachother on TV, they wanted the rivalry to be a BIG one. It sells tickets.

If you don't think UFC, Pride, etc has a full blow marketing department who's looking for angles, grudges, or even creating rivalries, then you are dead wrong. It's a business like any other. Now I'm in no way comparing this to wrestling, and their predetermined winners, etc. I'm just saying fighting alone does not captivate an audience. People watching need heros and villians, people they can cheer for. People with a story. How many times has a seasoned fighter faught UFC, that the general public hasn't heard of, and people booed becaue the pace of the fight was slow, or the fight ended up on the ground? I'm sure if you're watching it on TV you wouldn't know. But ask the rest of us who have been there live for quite a few fights. It's almost disheartening to hear the fans boo the fight, when they are doing exactly what they are paid to do.

Common fans want action, blood, broken bones, an knockouts. Not many at all care for the perfectly executed submission.


Oh agree with you 100% about publicity and the fighters getting all riled up, but Tito and Kens hatred towards each other isnt political. If you watch Tito from the begining he was a punk. That was back when the fighters were making NOWHERE close to what they do now so they really didnt have a reason to act like that. Ken has a reason to feel the way he does towards Tito, the man beat one of his fighters and then flipped off the whole Lions Den "Or in Titos words, Guy Metzger" but either or, that was a show of disrespect, that wasnt staged.

Now during interviews I believe that fighters do talk shit on each other to get the tickets selling, but Tito and Kens ordeal isnt a set-up, its a whole new subject just the two of them. Besides, that's 2 fighters acting like that. If selling tickets was based on the way Tito and Ken act, then you'd have the same ordeal with Chick Liddell/Randy C............Arlovski/Silvia...........Hughes/St.Pierre. etc etc

[The Big Matt]

you do have that. They shit talk all the time. None of them, not even Chuck or Randy has the popularity that Tito and Ken do.

Tito was the new star, the badboy everyone cheered for. Ken was the old winner, WWE superstar. Come on. They hyped that fight more than any other. There were at least 5 Best Damn Sports Show episodes with them on it. They were on Leno, Conan, Good Morning America. They made this fight one fans had to see.

There was a respect issue, but no real bad blood til the Tito/Ken fight. Sure Tito flipped off Guy, he flipped off everyone of his opponents he beat. It's not like he singled out Guy, or the Lion's Den right off the bat. But when Ken decided to make a big deal out of it Tito decided to tear the Lion's Den apart, limb from limb. Beating any Lion's Den fighter that would step in the way.

If you watch Pride, it's the same thing Sakuraba was doing with the Gracie's... He was/is "The Gracie Hunter", going after and beating Gracie family members. Why? Because Royce Gracie is a legend in this sport, and the Gracie name is a legend. So if you want to make it big, what do you do? Go after and beat the legends.

Same thing Tito was doing with Ken. The Lion's Den was a very strong unit at one time. Tito decided to take them on, to be the best. And he did just that.

Tito lost to Mezger in their first fight in May of 97 starting the bad blood between the two of them.
Tito beat Jerry Bohlander Jan of 99
Tito beat Mezger in Mar of 99

Rico Rodriguez another Team Punishment member beat Pete Williams Nov 01

Tito and Ken finally squared off Nov of 02

So you're telling me they really had bad blood, and "hated" eachother this entire time??? Come on now. And now you're believing the hype of the show and how much they hate eachother on TUF? I admit Tito does a great job getting under Ken's skin, but their animosity for eachother is purely to hype the fight, bring in fans and money.

If it wasn't a Main Event fight, no one would care, not even the two fighters.

Also notice the big hype being started for the Matt Hughes/Royce Gracie fight. I guarantee the same thing. Late night talk shows, gues appearances on regular TV, etc. Gotta make it a big draw so everyone gets paid.

[10sec302]

Well now that I think about it, it does make a little more sense. I do feel like though they they dislike each other more than anyone else in the UFC. Maybe that exagerate it a little more when the cameras are rolling, but IMO they have a good reason to not like each other vs. politics.