Front Page of Sunday Paper

[Geor!]

"Is There a Conspiracy to Keep Dallas Cowboys Greats Out of the Hall of Fame?"

What the fuck?

It's not like they've had a bunch of super stars. Back in the 70's yeah, they had a few, but the players from the 90s, besides Aikman, Smith and Johnston were nothing but criminals and drug addicts.

Why do they deserve to be placed in the Hall of Fame, especially so early into retirement? Some people have been waiting 20 years to go to Canton.

I'm not a Cowboys fan by anymeans, but I'll support them and try to cheer for them as they are the hometeam, but this headline really struck a nerve; Especially since the Cowboys are known as "America's Team." Whoever wrote that article needs to pull their head out of their ass.

[Mach1 w/Shaker]

"Is There a Conspiracy to Keep Dallas Cowboys Greats Out of the Hall of Fame?"

What the fuck?

It's not like they've had a bunch of super stars. Back in the 70's yeah, they had a few, but the players from the 90s, besides Aikman, Smith and Johnston were nothing but criminals and drug addicts.

Why do they deserve to be placed in the Hall of Fame, especially so early into retirement? Some people have been waiting 20 years to go to Canton.


Are you kidding? The Cowboys have won 5 Super Bowls and appeared in 8. For all of that greatness they have a grand total of 7 players in the HOF. The Miami Dolphins won one Super Bowl and they have 9 players in the HOF. Hell the Bills have 5 players in the HOF and they haven't won jack shit. Check out the breakdown by team here:http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.jsp

I will somewhat agree from the 90's Cowboys prolly only Aikman, Irvin, Smith, Haley and whether you love or hate him Deion will get serious consideration.

As far as waiting 20 years, how about 30 for Rayfield Wright, Bob Hayes, and Chuck Howley (the only Super Bowl MVP winner from a losing team). From the 70's teams Drew Pearson, Harvey Martin, and Cliff Harris should be in. A couple of years ago when Rayfield Wright and Bob Hayes made it to the final six (the usual number of people enshrined in a given year) the committee mysteriously took another vote and decided to cut two, Wright and Hayes. After that vote a writer from Minnesota. a voter on the committee, gloated that he voted Bob Hayes out. So yes until they start putting some of these guys in the HOF there will always be the perception that there is a Cowboy bias.

[BlueThunder99TA]

the Cowboys have been getting fucked for a LONG time in the HOF ballot process. Even a Cowboy hater can see that. :rolleyes:

[Geor!]

So even though the Cowboys are one of the top markets in the NFL, are one of the leading teams in terms of profits to the NFL by merchandise, are labeled "America's Team," and have won 5 Super Bowls - more than any team in NFL history, that there is a "conspiracy" in keeping players out of the Hall of Fame?

Seems like it would be the other way around to me.

In thinking this over a bit more, I guess you could argue this point either way. Either the fact that the players shouldn't be there, or that they should but are getting "denied" by someone, or some entity who holds a grudge.

[Osiris]

It's not like they've had a bunch of super stars. Back in the 70's yeah, they had a few, but the players from the 90s, besides Aikman, Smith and Johnston were nothing but criminals and drug addicts.



When did Aikman, Smith, and Johnston get busted for drugs, or anything illegal?

[TRAXX]

When did Aikman, Smith, and Johnston get busted for drugs, or anything illegal?


I think he meant besides those three, the rest of the 90s players got busted. His sentence can be read two different ways.

[HookEm]

You're proving the point. Eastern Sports writers hate the Cowboys, and you'll see when the latest ballots come out.

Hell, Landry didn't even make the Top 10 Super Bowl Coaches list that came out recently.....went to 5, won 2, and cant even get in the top 10.

BTW, we didn't name ourselves America's Team. NFL Films did that.

So even though the Cowboys are one of the top markets in the NFL, are one of the leading teams in terms of profits to the NFL by merchandise, are labeled "America's Team," and have won 5 Super Bowls - more than any team in NFL history, that there is a "conspiracy" in keeping players out of the Hall of Fame?

.

[Geor!]

I think he meant besides those three, the rest of the 90s players got busted. His sentence can be read two different ways.
Thanks.

[Geor!]

You're proving the point. Eastern Sports writers hate the Cowboys, and you'll see when the latest ballots come out.

Hell, Landry didn't even make the Top 10 Super Bowl Coaches list that came out recently.....went to 5, won 2, and cant even get in the top 10.

BTW, we didn't name ourselves America's Team. NFL Films did that.
I guess that's the same type of mentality that some Steelers fans have... that everyone is against us.. the media hates us, etc...

[HookEm]

I guess that's the same type of mentality that some Steelers fans have... that everyone is against us.. the media hates us, etc...


LOL! Is there a Steeler from the 70s NOT in the HoF?????

[Cartman]

Are you kidding? The Cowboys have won 5 Super Bowls and appeared in 8. For all of that greatness they have a grand total of 7 players in the HOF. The Miami Dolphins won one Super Bowl and they have 9 players in the HOF. Hell the Bills have 5 players in the HOF and they haven't won jack shit. Check out the breakdown by team here:http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.jsp

I will somewhat agree from the 90's Cowboys prolly only Aikman, Irvin, Smith, Haley and whether you love or hate him Deion will get serious consideration.

As far as waiting 20 years, how about 30 for Rayfield Wright, Bob Hayes, and Chuck Howley (the only Super Bowl MVP winner from a losing team). From the 70's teams Drew Pearson, Harvey Martin, and Cliff Harris should be in. A couple of years ago when Rayfield Wright and Bob Hayes made it to the final six (the usual number of people enshrined in a given year) the committee mysteriously took another vote and decided to cut two, Wright and Hayes. After that vote a writer from Minnesota. a voter on the committee, gloated that he voted Bob Hayes out. So yes until they start putting some of these guys in the HOF there will always be the perception that there is a Cowboy bias.

for the record the dolphins won 2 lost 3 superbowls. and honestly besides smith the others are really hall of fame type players maybe irvin

[Mach1 w/Shaker]

Forgot about the Dolphins winning Super Bowl 8. Still there are deserving Cowboys that for some reason or the other can't seem to get voted in. Bob Hayes revolutionized the vertical passing game but yet voters point to his drug problems that occurred AFTER football for not voting for him. Lawrence Taylor, who was a well-known cokehead while he was playing, had no problem making the HOF because he played in the biggest media market. Was he a great player? Yes he was, but if you use off the field problems as a criteria for keeping Bob Hayes and Michael Irvin out it would seem you gotta use it for all players.

[HookEm]

He was also arrested for tax evasion...and he wasn't a cokehead, he was a crackhead.

;)

Forgot about the Dolphins winning Super Bowl 8. Still there are deserving Cowboys that for some reason or the other can't seem to get voted in. Bob Hayes revolutionized the vertical passing game but yet voters point to his drug problems that occurred AFTER football for not voting for him. Lawrence Taylor, who was a well-known cokehead while he was playing, had no problem making the HOF because he played in the biggest media market. Was he a great player? Yes he was, but if you use off the field problems as a criteria for keeping Bob Hayes and Michael Irvin out it would seem you gotta use it for all players.

[Who Needs 8]

I like what Hansen just said.

22 Players were voted by the Hall of Fame voters as the Best Players of the 70's. 2 of those 22 players are NOT in the Hall of Fame. And those two are the ONLY Cowboys in the 22 players. How you can be voted Best of the 70's but not in the Hall of Fame is BULLSHIT and the Number One FACT that there IS a Cowboy Bias.

[def1eppard]

People hate the Cowboys....period.

[whiteboy]

I saw tony dorset at the mavs game saturday night

[Cartman]

Forgot about the Dolphins winning Super Bowl 8. Still there are deserving Cowboys that for some reason or the other can't seem to get voted in. Bob Hayes revolutionized the vertical passing game but yet voters point to his drug problems that occurred AFTER football for not voting for him. Lawrence Taylor, who was a well-known cokehead while he was playing, had no problem making the HOF because he played in the biggest media market. Was he a great player? Yes he was, but if you use off the field problems as a criteria for keeping Bob Hayes and Michael Irvin out it would seem you gotta use it for all players.


the difference about LT is there has never been a LB like him before or after, and almost all of his problems came after he left the game, I am sure he was doing them during but I can't recall him ever being caught. irvin on the other hand has been busted many a times during his playing days. troy was just an average qb who did what he was supposed to do and that was not lose the game.

[MidnightRunner]

the difference about LT is there has never been a LB like him before or after, and almost all of his problems came after he left the game, I am sure he was doing them during but I can't recall him ever being caught. irvin on the other hand has been busted many a times during his playing days. troy was just an average qb who did what he was supposed to do and that was not lose the game.

LT did get in trouble during his playing days and admitted to the crack helping him during game day. LT would smoke crack at halftime, he was cracked out most of the time he was playing, he has said that. Irvin got busted one time for drugs when he was playing and I hardly think Aikman was an average QB who just didn't lose games, that is a dumbass statement.

There is definitely and east coast bias towards not only the Cowboys but everything Texas, I live out here(unfortunately for now) and it is true.

[HookEm]

You do know that Bob Hayes is the REASON the zone defense was developed? That certainly trumps LT.

the difference about LT is there has never been a LB like him before or after, and almost all of his problems came after he left the game, I am sure he was doing them during but I can't recall him ever being caught. irvin on the other hand has been busted many a times during his playing days. troy was just an average qb who did what he was supposed to do and that was not lose the game.

[01WhiteCobra]

You do know that Bob Hayes is the REASON the zone defense was developed? That certainly trumps LT.

You can't write the history of the NFL without Mr. Hayes. For that reason only he should be in The Hall.

[Cartman]

You do know that Bob Hayes is the REASON the zone defense was developed? That certainly trumps LT.
really how many records did he hold? how many times did he lead the league at his position? I ask, cause I was too young to watch him play I didn't start watching football till 82. and got into it big time in 84

[HookEm]

really how many records did he hold? how many times did he lead the league at his position? I ask, cause I was too young to watch him play I didn't start watching football till 82. and got into it big time in 84

The concept of the zone defense was developed for the sole purpose of defending Bullet Bob Hayes. He set the world record in the 100 yrd dash ab about 9.1 in the early 60s, and in 64 won at least 2 gold medals, before playing a down of pro ball.

First two seasons in Dallas, he led the league in receiving TDs, going 9 for 246 and 6 for 195 against Wash and the Giants. He was also named to the Pro Bowl twice.

However, having the zone defense, as well as the "Bump and Run" concept developed just to deal with him, should have stamped his ticket long ago.

[Cartman]

The concept of the zone defense was developed for the sole purpose of defending Bullet Bob Hayes. He set the world record in the 100 yrd dash ab about 9.1 in the early 60s, and in 64 won at least 2 gold medals, before playing a down of pro ball.

First two seasons in Dallas, he led the league in receiving TDs, going 9 for 246 and 6 for 195 against Wash and the Giants. He was also named to the Pro Bowl twice.

However, having the zone defense, as well as the "Bump and Run" concept developed just to deal with him, should have stamped his ticket long ago.
but what was his overall stats?

[unkoricky]

"Is There a Conspiracy to Keep Dallas Cowboys Greats Out of the Hall of Fame?"


Yes there is..

[HookEm]

Yes there is..


[office space]Fuckin A'[/office space]

[unkoricky]

got this from some guy on a cowboys forum


Too Tall Jones was on espnews

When asked on ESPNews about the comments recently made by Roger Dodger on the HOF Ed "Too Tall" Jones stopped just short of claiming bias, but he did say that "Something is definately wrong". Too Tall went on to say the Cowboys have been to more super bowl than any other team, we are tied for most super bowl wins, and yet when you look in the HOF the number of Cowboys just is not there, repeated that he feels something is definately wrong. He said back in the 70's the road to the super bowl went through Dallas, and he's right.

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

but what was his overall stats?<table cellpadding="5" border="1"><tr><th colspan="3"></th><th colspan="4" align="center">Rushing</th><th colspan="4" align="center">Receiving</th></tr><tr><th>Year</th><th>Team</th><th>Games</th><th>Att</th><th>Yards</th><th>Y/A</th><th>TD</th><th>Rec</th><th>Yards</th><th>Y/R</th><th>TD</th></tr><tr><td>1965</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>4</td><td>-8</td><td>-2.0</td><td>1</td><td>46 </td><td>1003</td><td>21.8</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td>1966</td><td>Dallas</td><td>14</td><td>1</td><td>-1</td><td>-1.0</td><td>0</td><td>64 </td><td>1232</td><td>19.2</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td>1967</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.0</td><td>0</td><td>49</td><td>998</td><td>20.4</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>1968</td><td>Dallas</td><td>14</td><td>4</td><td>2</td><td>0.5</td><td>0</td><td>53 </td><td>909</td><td>17.2</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>1969</td><td>Dallas</td><td>10</td><td>4</td><td>17</td><td>4.2 </td><td>0</td><td>40</td><td>746</td><td>18.6</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td>1970</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>4</td><td>34</td><td>8.5 </td><td>1</td><td>34</td><td>889</td><td>26.1</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>1971</td><td>Dallas</td><td>14</td><td>3</td><td>18</td><td>6.0 </td><td>0</td><td>35</td><td>840</td><td>24.0</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td>1972</td><td>Dallas</td><td>12</td><td>2</td><td>8</td><td>4.0 </td><td>0</td><td>15</td><td>200</td><td>13.3</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>1973</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.0 </td><td>0</td><td>22</td><td>360</td><td>16.4</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td>1974</td><td>Dallas</td><td>12</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.0 </td><td>0</td><td>7</td><td>118</td><td>16.9</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><td>1975</td><td>San Fransisco</td><td>4</td><td>2</td><td>-2</td><td>-1.0</td><td>0</td><td>6 </td><td>119</td><td>19.8</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><b><td colspan="2" align="center">TOTAL</td><td>132</td><td>24</td><td>68</td><td>2.8</td><td>2</td><td>371</td><td>7414</td><td>20.0</td><td>71</td></b></tr></table>
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/HayeBo00.htm

Also, just FYI, Jerry Rice averaged a touchdown every ~8 receptions; Hayes averaged a touchdown every ~5 receptions, and Rice averaged 5 yards per reception less than Hayes.

[MidnightRunner]

<table cellpadding="5" border="1"><tr><th colspan="3"></th><th colspan="4" align="center">Rushing</th><th colspan="4" align="center">Receiving</th></tr><tr><th>Year</th><th>Team</th><th>Games</th><th>Att</th><th>Yards</th><th>Y/A</th><th>TD</th><th>Rec</th><th>Yards</th><th>Y/R</th><th>TD</th></tr><tr><td>1965</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>4</td><td>-8</td><td>-2.0</td><td>1</td><td>46 </td><td>1003</td><td>21.8</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td>1966</td><td>Dallas</td><td>14</td><td>1</td><td>-1</td><td>-1.0</td><td>0</td><td>64 </td><td>1232</td><td>19.2</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td>1967</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.0</td><td>0</td><td>49</td><td>998</td><td>20.4</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>1968</td><td>Dallas</td><td>14</td><td>4</td><td>2</td><td>0.5</td><td>0</td><td>53 </td><td>909</td><td>17.2</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>1969</td><td>Dallas</td><td>10</td><td>4</td><td>17</td><td>4.2 </td><td>0</td><td>40</td><td>746</td><td>18.6</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td>1970</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>4</td><td>34</td><td>8.5 </td><td>1</td><td>34</td><td>889</td><td>26.1</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>1971</td><td>Dallas</td><td>14</td><td>3</td><td>18</td><td>6.0 </td><td>0</td><td>35</td><td>840</td><td>24.0</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td>1972</td><td>Dallas</td><td>12</td><td>2</td><td>8</td><td>4.0 </td><td>0</td><td>15</td><td>200</td><td>13.3</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>1973</td><td>Dallas</td><td>13</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.0 </td><td>0</td><td>22</td><td>360</td><td>16.4</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td>1974</td><td>Dallas</td><td>12</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.0 </td><td>0</td><td>7</td><td>118</td><td>16.9</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><td>1975</td><td>San Fransisco</td><td>4</td><td>2</td><td>-2</td><td>-1.0</td><td>0</td><td>6 </td><td>119</td><td>19.8</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><b><td colspan="2" align="center">TOTAL</td><td>132</td><td>24</td><td>68</td><td>2.8</td><td>2</td><td>371</td><td>7414</td><td>20.0</td><td>71</td></b></tr></table>
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/HayeBo00.htm

Also, just FYI, Jerry Rice averaged a touchdown every ~8 receptions; Hayes averaged a touchdown every ~5 receptions, and Rice averaged 5 yards per reception less than Hayes.

In those days nobody was throwing the ball 30-40 times a game either

[That_Is_My_El_Camino]

Yup, the league leader in receptions some of those years was only about 70.