For those that turn corners......

[aggie97]

Well, just got back from a HPDE with the Driver's Edge at Texas World speedway in college station and I had a fucking blast. Great event and I recommend it to anyone that likes to use their car for more than just going in straight lines. My car with the new front end was H-O-O-K-E-D UP!!! Started in the intermediate blue group on Saturday and by the last run on Sunday, had moved to yellow and cleared to run with the red group and solo. Ended up roasting the rear brakes on the second lap and did 9 more with no rear Brakes!!! :eek: Pretty much owned everything from Z06's, C6's, M3's and a gagle of other cars. Apparently the silver slut was talked about a bunch because no one though mustangs should be that fast!!!

From what my instructor said I pulled off a 2:00.XXX minute lap which is pretty damn fast for a 2.9 mile road course. I will see if I can rip some video I got tomorrow but here is a picture of what a mustang should look like!!!

[Nate]

awesome matt! Wish I could have gone! Bring the slut out tues night!

[SNEAKY]

go road racer, go.

[89 drop top stang]

that's pretty sweet, beat up on those fancy ass cars!

[aggie97]

awesome matt! Wish I could have gone! Bring the slut out tues night!

It's going to stay parked for a few days.....suffice to say the rear brakes are done. Not real safe to drive but the fronts seemed to make up for it pretty good considering I was braking from 135-140mph going into turn 1 which was about 90mph and flat as all hell. Doing that with the fronts only is why I am DAMN glad I went with the Brembo 4 pots.

I have to thank Maximum Motorsports because after implimenting their entire catalog....this car is glued to the pavement.


As for giving it to the high dollar cars....I was drafting a new C6 vette down the straight in one session about 8 feet off his bumper then entire length of the front straight. Wasn't gaining and wasn't losing distance. I think that says something about the silver slut! Many a Z06 saw the same thing only to have me pass them shortly after in the infield area.

The one thing I need to find is a t-45 with a shorter 5th gear. At 125 going from 4-5, the car fell on it's face.....I wonder if I can change gear sets to get a .80 5th gear???

Here is another pic. I think the inside front wheel is in the air!!! :cool:

[SVTVenom]

Man that thing is LOW!!!! :eek: :eek:

And I thought my car was slammed. Looks good though.

It definately looks like you had fun. Congrats!

[aggie97]

Man that thing is LOW!!!! :eek: :eek:

And I thought my car was slammed. Looks good though.

It definately looks like you had fun. Congrats!

Actually, it isn't that low....any lower and I can't get a jack under the sill or gas tank for the diff.

Here is the video......32 meg.

www.aggie97.com/DETWS.wmv

Worth the download and I changed the resolution to save space....it was 350meg!!!

[Darren M]

Great pics Matt. Video won't d/l. Did you exceed your bandwidth again? ;)
Hopefully you're not loosing adhesion on that inside tire. If you are you're loosing quite a bit of turning bite. In other words you could be turning faster. Did you keep the stock K member? Did you happen to weight the two?

[Monsoon X]

Looks good man. Turning corners IS great stuff. I plan on turning some at a road course next week, if all goes well.

[ELVIS]

does everyone ride with a passenger, if so why?? weight distribution?? :confused: thanks, just curious.

god bless.

[aggie97]

Great pics Matt. Video won't d/l. Did you exceed your bandwidth again? ;)
Hopefully you're not loosing adhesion on that inside tire. If you are you're loosing quite a bit of turning bite. In other words you could be turning faster. Did you keep the stock K member? Did you happen to weight the two?

video works here at work...right click and save as.....

I think the car is still in the air from running over a curb.....trust me, there isn't going to be any more traction without some sort of down force and aero work.

The MM setup only weighs 22 lbs less than stock...and that is mostly in the A-arms only. The k member is VERY beefy and meant to last the life of the car. Daron had two wheels off in the session I let him drive and I expected some damaged.....only paint on the cross member. Never even bent.

Only real casualty other than the rear brake pads was the windshield. hit a 1" diameter marble at about 115mph right above the rear view mirror. Have a nice 10" crack and star.....time for Lexan I guess.. :( Tires still have a few OT sessions in them so I just need to figure out a different rear brake setup and I am back in business. I have heard rumors of a Cobra PBR front setup being fitted to the rear axle which would greatly compliment the brembos on the front. Otherwise I am going to go cobra vented rears. Current plan is get the correct hangers and then buy a full set of Eradispeed 2 pc rotors front and rear and coil overs with bilsteins to control the rear axle hop.......and I thought I was getting close to finishing the car.. :mad:

[90lx86svo]

What rear pads were you using?

[momo stallion]

kick ass matt!

[aggie97]

does everyone ride with a passenger, if so why?? weight distribution?? :confused: thanks, just curious.

god bless.

Passenger is an instructor....IN EVERY SESSION. It's mainly for safety and teaching you about traffic, passing, being passed and a proper line for max speed. Once you progress from the beginner group, to intermediate, to advanced and on to "expert", you can then be signed off to solo once they feel you are in control of the car and are capable of reading the track and traffic to prevent incidents. There were many times over the weekend that we were freight training a line of 6-10 cars at 80+mph through turns and less than 5 feet between each car!!!! It helps to have a second pair of eyes in the car with you to help stay clean.


One thing I forgot to mention was this guy in a BMW M roadster with a turbo that thought he was fast. One of my sessions I was working on maintaining momentum and was only using 4th and 5th gear. Slowed my lap times by almost 8 seconds but helped drive a smoother line. BMW man thought he was the shit because he stayed on my ass for an entire session.....Well, the following session was full tilt. Suffice to say he was blown away by the fact that I walked his ass by half a lap in not much time at all. BMW had 513rwhp too!!! It was fast....just not fast enough!! :cool:

[aggie97]

What rear pads were you using?

I have the baer eradispeed +1 kit in the rear. Great look and great power but eats pads like a fat guy at a hot dog eating contest. I had a set of performance friction Z pads that did ok and made it through last AX season and 6 sessions this weekend. I hated spending so much on pads so I just got an off the shelf pad to save money......well, it didn't save shit. Lasted 25-30 minutes at most. going to do a bit more research into the rear setup to cure the braking and wheel hop issues under braking. Diving into turn 4 was a bitch to keep the rear axle on the ground!!!

[90lx86svo]

Yep, stock rear pads will not last at all. I am using Hawk Black front and rear right now and have been have been happy with them. I have had the same set or rear pads for about 7-8 events and I am going on my 4-5 on the fronts with a lot left. I have Cobra stuff and ABS with a torque arm and p/b so the rear pads get used alot. The last time I used PF-Z pads I was not happy with them.

TWS is not that hard on brakes, wait until Hallett, 120mph-30mph. You ought to go to the SVTOA event at TWS in 3 weeks, I will be there instructing.

[aggie97]

Yep, stock rear pads will not last at all. I am using Hawk Black front and rear right now and have been have been happy with them. I have had the same set or rear pads for about 7-8 events and I am going on my 4-5 on the fronts with a lot left. I have Cobra stuff and ABS with a torque arm and p/b so the rear pads get used alot. The last time I used PF-Z pads I was not happy with them.

TWS is not that hard on brakes, wait until Hallett, 120mph-30mph. You ought to go to the SVTOA event at TWS in 3 weeks, I will be there instructing.

forward info please!!! I think the hoosiers have about 2-3 sessions left in them and I have a new set of RA1's I could have mounted up on my Konigs.....

as far as brake pads... I was really happy with the original Galphers in the Brembo kit and I am loving the SBS pads I have now. Great feel, great hard hit when you want it and NO heat or fade problems at all.

Speaking of which....Darren, do you still want those two Hoosier GAC's...? Make you a hell of a deal!!! ;)

[90lx86svo]

www.svtoa.com
It is a very well run event, Ford subsidises it. 5 sessions a day with great classroom time (not all day). Ford brings SVT cars to look at and from what I hear, the 07' Shelby is going to be there.

[Darren M]

Finally got the video to work. Looks great Matt. How's the car handle the transition from the bank to the flat top? Did you "man handle" the transition or is it a smooth one?

Edit: Matt, let me know how much for those tires if you're serious. Just an FYI. Last year SVT worked with the Indy SVTOA and put on a track day in Indy. The GT showed up and GAVE RIDES!!!! Hmm...... How far is TWS?? :D

[aggie97]

Finally got the video to work. Looks great Matt. How's the car handle the transition from the bank to the flat top? Did you "man handle" the transition or is it a smooth one?



depends on where you make the transition and if you lift!! It wasn't bad by any means as you can carry HUGE speed down and through turn one. The biggest problem for me all weekend was catching EVERYONE in that turn. There might have been 3 laps out of 70 that I had clear running into that corner. Big grip and hairy balls are what's needed to maintain speed through there because it is FLAT and FAST.

as for man handling the car.....My hands hurt like a mofo today and so do my arms. the front tires generate SO MUCH grip that it really works your hands hard. It's not bump steer....it's fucking grip. When the instructor drove it he said that it is much more work than his cobra. I will say that one handed driving is TOTALLY out of the question. It was almost as if the power steering was out. Grip is good!!!!

Yes about the GAC's....I need the get rid of them to make room for a full set of toyos. when I have the toyo's mounted, I will be sure to keep the GAC's for you. $50 for the pair?

[Danny]

You seem to be pretty far away from any curbs in that picture, have you tried adjusting the rebound on your struts? (assuming double adjustable)


Car looks great Matt. Awesome thread too man! :cool:

[cryptic5.0]

Sounds like you had a freakin blast.

Mind if I ask what all you've done to your car, and approx. how much it's set you back? I'd love to try my hand at some corner carvin, if only I had the cash to blow on the mods. :(

[90lx86svo]

Sounds like you had a freakin blast.

Mind if I ask what all you've done to your car, and approx. how much it's set you back? I'd love to try my hand at some corner carvin, if only I had the cash to blow on the mods. :(

The thing about about open tracking is you can start off with just about any car. People assume you need to start off with all the trick stuff. When I started 15 years ago my car was mostly stock and slowly modified it (too much to think about now). All you need to start with is GOOD pads and brake fluid and a sound car, even decent street tires are ok. It is all about developing good driver skills. Smooth is fast. You are put into groups with like drivers so there is not large speed differentials. The first time I did it I was hooked and 50 events later I am still doing it. It makes a crack adiction feel like a craving for a salty snack.

[Darren M]

Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

Matt, depending upon the shape of the tires I'll take em. (I'm assuming they have at least 2 or 3 OT's left in them. In my car, not your grip master. ;)) This will give me a good excuse to take the trailer. :D

Edit: Avatar pic for ya. ;)

[RyanB]

Matt, you should trade in the Slut for a convertible, that's all that was out there! Looked good, was that one of the "beginner" sets, looked like a few people there too shitty lines and really needed some in car training. Also looked like there were a few "solos" too so who knows. I like how you called that yellow Vette "slow" and then ripped around it and that red miata for the secodn time then powered right through that left-hander!

Darren, you gonna go to TWS? Might make for a fun trip:).

[aggie97]

Matt, you should trade in the Slut for a convertible, that's all that was out there! Looked good, was that one of the "beginner" sets, looked like a few people there too shitty lines and really needed some in car training. Also looked like there were a few "solos" too so who knows. I like how you called that yellow Vette "slow" and then ripped around it and that red miata for the secodn time then powered right through that left-hander!

Darren, you gonna go to TWS? Might make for a fun trip:).

SVO hit it right on the head....SOUND CAR. I hate to say it but a guy came out in a stock 92 LX 5.0 with baer brakes all around, street tires and NOTHING else. A good start and a great attitude for learning. Problem was he was beating on a 13 year old car with 13 year old charging system and he made it one session. We put an alternator and a battery on the car and he still couldn't make it out. I think they towed the car home saturday night because he didn't show on Sunday.

Darren, the GAC's are hard as rocks....enduro tire. Should be fine if you don't abuse them. I would say they are at 70%?

Ryan, that was a yellow group, second from top. Most of them were on street tires hence the slower paces but honestly....most couldn't drive for shit. I would imagine had I been driving the one Z06 or R compounds....somebody would be signing me on in Grand Am because of the speed differences!!! J/k.

Danny, still trying to figure out which turn that was in. If I remember correctly, there were a couple times the car was bouncing in a turn and that might have been one of them....and no, the shocks are Tokico 5 ways on the border line of working with the 375# coilovers. I have been shopping for a set of Koni DA's for a fox but have yet to find a good deal. In need something better in the rear to control the axle hop under hard braking...again a bad rebound setup.

Cryptic: Well, I will answer your question the same way I did to a few people this weekend.....How about I tell you what I HAVEN'T done to the car? Stock Glass, Stock sheet metal and no hole saws, stock fuel tank, stock shortblock but has a lot of stuff bolted to it that aren't stock. Gulp....I hate to say this but figuring the original cost of the car ($20K) and all the mods, tires, brakes and shit........Gulp....somewhere between $40 and 45k.........and I am not done. Figure in about $700-900 a weekend if you go with Race tires, pads, class cost, hotel and fuel. I don't want that to scare you away because doing it on street tires is not nearly as expensive. AND once you do one, you will start finding ways to blow money at an insane rate!!!

Wow, that was a long ass reply!!!!

<-----checks over shoulder for wife!!! :p

[aggie97]

Oh and D, thanks for the avatar......been without one for 3 years now!!!! 'bout time I put one up!!! :cool:

[aggie97]

Bye the way, for anyone interested...like me. John George's AI car is for sale. That is a champ winning car with fresh engine for $25k.......I need to sell mine so bad I can taste it. I would kill someone for that car...... :eek:

[Murph Tang]

Can't wait to see that car in person scream around that track. I'm hooked into road racing.

Picked up a Probe GT cheap and have a total of $3000 into it with suspension wheels/tires and maintainance. The Probe doesn't have much balls but its teaching me how to drive and keep momentum.

Last TWS event I ran the poop out of it. Stayed right on an Lotus Elise bumper the whole session. Most fun I've had on four wheels.

Congrats for moving up the ranks so quick! That is awesome!

[aggie97]

www.svtoa.com
It is a very well run event, Ford subsidises it. 5 sessions a day with great classroom time (not all day). Ford brings SVT cars to look at and from what I hear, the 07' Shelby is going to be there.

If they have a problem making a full field, I join in for half price and keep my mouth shut!!! Otherwise I will wait till August with NASA but that grid area is going to be PACKED. Not a whole bunch of room there unless they pit out on the actual pit lane!!!

You could sell me on the deal if they let me drive some of the cars!!!

[Labora]

Looks like you had a blast good to hear your setup is mostly working well. ;)

[32VfromHell]

Wait, so you are selling your current front brakes for some 4-pistons? Hell, if thats so, shoot me an offer for the calipers, as i think they will be an upgrade. We might even just be able to exchange units, as you want my cobra brakes for the rear axle for your car...

Since im finally earning money again, i am about ready to get me some Eradispeed 2-pieces. DMP catalog has two fronts (13") for 399, so im going to check that out to see if its for real. Seems like a good deal to me.

Also, would you happen to know how WISE the idea of running the MM torque arm without the panhard would be? I dont think i will have the clearance for the panhard with my exaust setup, and im NOT going sidepipes or dumps...at least for now.

Yep, im about to go shopping for some new toys, including a strut tower brace, new brakes, underdrive pulleys, and some other unmentionables.

Back on topic.....bad ass video!

[aggie97]

Wait, so you are selling your current front brakes for some 4-pistons? Hell, if thats so, shoot me an offer for the calipers, as i think they will be an upgrade. We might even just be able to exchange units, as you want my cobra brakes for the rear axle for your car...

Since im finally earning money again, i am about ready to get me some Eradispeed 2-pieces. DMP catalog has two fronts (13") for 399, so im going to check that out to see if its for real. Seems like a good deal to me.

Also, would you happen to know how WISE the idea of running the MM torque arm without the panhard would be? I dont think i will have the clearance for the panhard with my exaust setup, and im NOT going sidepipes or dumps...at least for now.

Yep, im about to go shopping for some new toys, including a strut tower brace, new brakes, underdrive pulleys, and some other unmentionables.

Back on topic.....bad ass video!

I am keeping the front brakes.....thinking of doing cobra fronts on the rear of my car.......

Torque arm REQUIRES the panhard but you can run the panhard without the TA...just run one upper Control arm only. Torque arm is not really needed unless you are doing what I am. The panhard changes the car so much already you won't need much more for the street. I ran that way for a while and did well.

Thanks for the info on the ER's at DMP. I am going to try and make that happen before my rotors seperate.....I have heard a few 2000R's have that happening but they are stopping about 600# more than me.

On a side note.....my lap time translates into an average speed of 87 mph and there is one very slow section and most of the infield is done in 3rd gear which is good for about 88mph. Also a few notes from the weekend....GT shortblocks can take 6700 rpm just fine and it once saw 7300!!! Instructor missed 5th and got 3rd....no harm done!!! :eek: I am now thoroughly convinced my motor is charmed and that mod motors MUST have 8 quarts of oil in them to live. What is really funny is that I averaged 2.86 miles per gallon!!! I am going to rethink the high compression setup where I would have to run 100 octane! LOL!

[thadude]

I have to thank Maximum Motorsports because after implimenting their entire catalog....this car is glued to the pavement.


:cool:

they do rock, i love everything i have. do you have the complete tubular frt ?

[aggie97]

they do rock, i love everything i have. do you have the complete tubular frt ?

and more........

[93LXHORSE]

Sounds great, Matt ! This is still with the trusty old torque arm off of the Hatch?

It's great that ONE piece of the Hatch still lives on....

[Neiladin]

that looks like ASS loads of fun...i should try that in my focus...

[Darren M]

You're right, you should. Foci do quite well on road courses. Better on AX courses but are suprisingly fast in the twisties.


So no points race for you this year, eh Matt? (I haven't looked in a long time.)

[aggie97]

Sounds great, Matt ! This is still with the trusty old torque arm off of the Hatch?

It's great that ONE piece of the Hatch still lives on....

Yep!!! This was the first weekend out in the car with the front done and all I could think about is how your car probably handled with this same package. You must have loved it? did you opt to extend the wheelbase on yours? I did and the balance is almost right on!!!

[aggie97]

You're right, you should. Foci do quite well on road courses. Better on AX courses but are suprisingly fast in the twisties.


So no points race for you this year, eh Matt? (I haven't looked in a long time.)

Daron from SVTTexas kind of put it this way...."Autox is a lot like masturbation, it's a quick and easy fix for your habit. Open track DE's are more like a long hard screw with a supermodel." Which one would you prefer?


Darren, we need to do the NASA DE in CS in August.

[Darren M]

That's a great analogy! ROFLMAO!! He's got it right too. However, he forgot one MAJOR thing. Masturbation is a lot cheaper than wining and dining a super model. ;)

That DE sounds like a great time. IF, I have some better than bad tires, AND a cobra front brake setup AND can still afford the DE I'll be there. Trailer and all. LOL!!!

[90lx86svo]

I am keeping the front brakes.....thinking of doing cobra fronts on the rear of my car.......

Thanks for the info on the ER's at DMP. I am going to try and make that happen before my rotors seperate.....I have heard a few 2000R's have that happening but they are stopping about 600# more than me.


The Cobra brakes on the rear might be overkill and I think it will be hard to get the system balanced right. The stock Vargas rears work pretty well and that is what all the NASA guys are using with no problems. My Cobra stuff has been problem free for years.

The ER rotors might be a good idea over the Brembos but the KH rotors should be ok. The cause is the spindle flexing and when a fixed caliper is used with a Brembo rotor it flexes and cracks around the center. A KH rotor should be ok.

[aggie97]

The Cobra brakes on the rear might be overkill and I think it will be hard to get the system balanced right. The stock Vargas rears work pretty well and that is what all the NASA guys are using with no problems. My Cobra stuff has been problem free for years.

The ER rotors might be a good idea over the Brembos but the KH rotors should be ok. The cause is the spindle flexing and when a fixed caliper is used with a Brembo rotor it flexes and cracks around the center. A KH rotor should be ok.

KH? Kryo-hardened? Not sure what came stock in the Brembo kit but piece of mind would be important to me!!

Probably just going to do the vented Cobra rears to save cash. I am sourcing a set of Koni DA's all around as well as a coil over setup in the rear..maybe. I need to figure out a way to kill rear axle hop under braking. I am supposed to be getting invited to a couple yahoo groups this week so I can start searching for info on curing braking induced wheel hop on a Torque arm car.

Darren, I would not worry too much about the cobra brakes. You have the cooling ducts and honestly, the track is not that bad on brakes. Keep in mind I did the session in the Vid with NO REAR brakes at all. Lap times suffered by 1-2 seconds. Save your money for tires and the class. I am sure we can work out a deal on accomodations if you don't bring the family.

The reason I am thinking of doing the event in August is to do the racecraft school. I am going to try and complete the cage and get the car tech ready just in case I would get the opportunity to join the group on Sunday.....course that includes a driver suit, new helmet, shoes....hmmmm, maybe not yet! I also hope to have the new shortblock in the car by then to start flexing some muscle and showing up those pushrod boys.

[aggie97]

That's a great analogy! ROFLMAO!! He's got it right too. However, he forgot one MAJOR thing. Masturbation is a lot cheaper than wining and dining a super model. ;)


That kind of goes without saying.... :D

[90lx86svo]

KH? Kryo-hardened? Not sure what came stock in the Brembo kit but piece of mind would be important to me!!

Probably just going to do the vented Cobra rears to save cash. I am sourcing a set of Koni DA's all around as well as a coil over setup in the rear..maybe. I need to figure out a way to kill rear axle hop under braking. I am supposed to be getting invited to a couple yahoo groups this week so I can start searching for info on curing braking induced wheel hop on a Torque arm car.



KH=Kelsey Hays, they were the rotor supplier before Brembo. The wheel hop thing is strange, especially with a T/A. What shocks are you using, Tokico?

[Darren M]

Darren, I would not worry too much about the cobra brakes. You have the cooling ducts and honestly, the track is not that bad on brakes. Keep in mind I did the session in the Vid with NO REAR brakes at all. Lap times suffered by 1-2 seconds. Save your money for tires and the class. I am sure we can work out a deal on accomodations if you don't bring the family.

My first HPDE ended abruptly in the grass fighting a spin due to no rear brakes. Thank God for several years of Autocross before that happened! That situation is never going to happen again and if we're out on the track I have a feeling I'll be pushing all of 9tenths. ;)

Thanks for the invite and I might take you up on the track day. We'll see. However, I'm building the trailer to accomodate an air mattress, cot, sleeping back and mesquito netting. Sounds like a perfect setup to me. ;)

[mikeb]

Here is the video......32 meg.

www.aggie97.com/DETWS.wmv


LOL @ Matt passing everyone on the track :D I thought the drivers in front of ya were giving you the finger at first :eek: :p

Looks like fun.

[aggie97]

LOL @ Matt passing everyone on the track :D I thought the drivers in front of ya were giving you the finger at first :eek: :p

Looks like fun.

some did!!! LOL!

Yes on the tokicos which I think is part of the problem. Not enough rebound dampening which is allowing the ass end to rise and cause problems.

I am going do some more research but the tech at MM recommended a stiffer rear springs and the Koni DA's......My fear is that would also require to go to a stiffer front spring and then make the car ride like a brick. I like the softer setup because the tracks here aren't exactly smooth. MSR is the exception but Hallet and TWS are not "ideal" for a stiffly sprung car.

[32VfromHell]

I dont feel its strange that the car wheelhops under braking, its just how the car reacts with the torque arm in place. F-bodies do the same thing under hard braking, so i have read.

Matt: Damn it, by some new front calipers, so i can have your calipers, you can have my cobra brakes for your rear axle, and we can muscle in on the guys at DMP for getting us a damn good mini-group deal on the rotors! =)

[93LXHORSE]

Matt my car handled real well, but I never learned how to drive it to its full potential around corners. I know it never, ever came close to getting it out of control, with 225 HP, and 345 Hp.


With 550 hp the Tourque Arm pretty much let me go WOT from a 30 MPH roll and be assured I would would not loose grip on dry concrete, and it definitely saved me a couple of times while shifting from 2-3 at high speeds around a lazy curve..... the tires lost grip, and the rear drifted about a foot, but the suspension let me know what was going on and a simple correction brought it right back in.

If I build up another street oriented car I would probably put a TA / PH setup on it again.....

[aggie97]

I dont feel its strange that the car wheelhops under braking, its just how the car reacts with the torque arm in place. F-bodies do the same thing under hard braking, so i have read.

Matt: Damn it, by some new front calipers, so i can have your calipers, you can have my cobra brakes for your rear axle, and we can muscle in on the guys at DMP for getting us a damn good mini-group deal on the rotors! =)

the next step up in the front on my car is about $2700....don't see that happening as it would require new wheels..18" to clear the 14" rotor setup. I might just throw some race pads on the stock rears again and see what that gets me but I am trying to find parts for a cobra rear setup...all I really need is the hangers if I do the ER rotors all around.

Anyway, it's money I don't want to spend right now because I need tires and I want to put the new motor in the car before August.

[90lx86svo]

some did!!! LOL!

Yes on the tokicos which I think is part of the problem. Not enough rebound dampening which is allowing the ass end to rise and cause problems.

I am going do some more research but the tech at MM recommended a stiffer rear springs and the Koni DA's......My fear is that would also require to go to a stiffer front spring and then make the car ride like a brick. I like the softer setup because the tracks here aren't exactly smooth. MSR is the exception but Hallet and TWS are not "ideal" for a stiffly sprung car.

I am running Koni 30 Series in the rear with 275# c/o's, come to think about it, I did not have wheel hop even with 390-430# conventional springs and Koni reds. I am running Koni D/As in the front with 450# c/o's with no problems on rough tracks.

[Darren M]

Matt, are you absolutely sure the wheel hop is associated strictly to heavy braking? An unmatched down shift can induce wheel hop, and more. :eek:

Did I hear Group buy on rotors?? :D

[aggie97]

Matt, are you absolutely sure the wheel hop is associated strictly to heavy braking? An unmatched down shift can induce wheel hop, and more. :eek:

Did I hear Group buy on rotors?? :D

yes on the braking only. Mostly on crappy surfaces like diving into turn 4 at TWS coming in hard in 3rd to a braking point. Personally I think it is the lack of rebound dampening on the tokicos...I need to just bite the bullet and buy a full set of Koni DA's and start playing with the springs. Everything is still VERY new back there but I will go ahead and check all nuts/bolts and anything else that might look out of normal.

I called MM and they said that I need to go to a stiffer spring and the Koni DA.... I have read about a similar problem on older FWD cars and they usually go to the DA and adjust rebound to full firm which helps keep the rear down and hopefully planted. I am just having a hard time swallowing $900 in shocks right now.

Maybe with the stock brakes and lowering the rear another 1/2" I can keep the rear down better. I know when I lowered the rear 3/4" from the previous point the wheel hop got better but when I went to the larger brake it came back. I also need to keep in mind that with the new 12.7:1 motor, i am going to have a lot more compression braking which I might not need the rear brakes as much???

Who knows, it's all about spending money right?

[Darren M]

And here to help you do that....

Free shipping on wheels or tires until the 15th.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/home.do

[Y2KSilverGT]

So how much does the entry fees run on this auto-x? I think I read you can take an all stock car and just bring an approved helmet?

On a side note, how was the scenery at the Tap and Dudley's? :D

[aggie97]

So how much does the entry fees run on this auto-x? I think I read you can take an all stock car and just bring an approved helmet?

On a side note, how was the scenery at the Tap and Dudley's? :D

Yes to the first question....approved equals a motorcycle helmet for $100 M2000 rating....


As for the tap and dudleys....I mostly saw the backs of my eyelids. There was no energy for that saturday night. I was wasted from the sun, heat and adrenaline rushes.

[Darren M]

Avatar looks MUCH better. ;)

[32VfromHell]

im in for a group buy-in on rotors!

[Oz98Cobra]

Hey Matt, the video looks good - I didn't say much that session, but I saw my thumbs up a lot in the video, so you must have been getting it mostly right!

I could really hear the noise those worn rear pads were making in the video too! That's got to be a new record trashing a brand new set of pads in 30 minutes of track time! - beats Bowtie Killer's record of wearing a set of EBC's to the metal and cracking a rotor in just 4 sessions at Hallett last year!

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the "wheel hop" you were experiencing when braking into turn 4 - it only happened when you really stood it on it's nose, and the surface is quite choppy there. Perhaps better rear shocks would help, but I'm not so sure you are that much out on the rebound - the car felt very well planted everywhere else as you know.

Oh yeah, and it was drag racing I compared to masturbation - autocross is like a quicky in the elevator with your secretary ;)

[32VfromHell]

Holy crap! You wore them out in a 30 MINUTE session?!


Man, i remember my temperatures were around 215 degrees after my lap sessions. Eesh. What does yours hover around when you are out there? Still getting dips in oil pressure from sloshing?

Thats got me a bit concerned =/ I need a 75-quart capacity pan, just for safeties sake =D

[aggie97]

Holy crap! You wore them out in a 30 MINUTE session?!


Man, i remember my temperatures were around 215 degrees after my lap sessions. Eesh. What does yours hover around when you are out there? Still getting dips in oil pressure from sloshing?

Thats got me a bit concerned =/ I need a 75-quart capacity pan, just for safeties sake =D

Oil temp NEVER went over 240. Water temp was the same as it always is on the dash....I REALLY need to get the water temp guage in. No issues with oil pressure either and I even took the gas tank down to 1/8 tank (By mistake) without a pickup problem.


Daron, the wheel hop will happen on smooth pavement too.. :( I talked to the guys at MM and their advice was to firm everything up....kind of against the philosophy I am using...right or wrong at this point, who really knows for sure? I have yet to pull the wheels off to inspect the damage on the rears as I am guessing the rotors are toast. I may try the stockers with a better pad for a while and see how the car does. Might even try to fab up a brake duct for the rear out of some sheetmetal to keep those dinky rotors cool.

Oh, and sorry for the misquote!!! ;)

[dankstang]

One thing I forgot to mention was this guy in a BMW M roadster with a turbo that thought he was fast. One of my sessions I was working on maintaining momentum and was only using 4th and 5th gear. Slowed my lap times by almost 8 seconds but helped drive a smoother line. BMW man thought he was the shit because he stayed on my ass for an entire session.....Well, the following session was full tilt. Suffice to say he was blown away by the fact that I walked his ass by half a lap in not much time at all. BMW had 513rwhp too!!! It was fast....just not fast enough!! :cool:


WTF? :eek:

What do you have for power adder?
You have over 600hp in the silver slut?
NICE.

I got my roller last week.
Time to sell my 94 and get this one going.
Hopefully I'll be ripping it up at PIR by next season.

Looking for a good brake setup like yours. Post up when you figure how to slap on huge rear brakes.

[aggie97]

WTF? :eek:

What do you have for power adder?
You have over 600hp in the silver slut?
NICE.

I got my roller last week.
Time to sell my 94 and get this one going.
Hopefully I'll be ripping it up at PIR by next season.

Looking for a good brake setup like yours. Post up when you figure how to slap on huge rear brakes.

Only 300 rwhp....for now. ;) Just a better driver driving a better setup car. I imagine that the M roadster was a handful with that much power and all kinds of chassis flex.....assuming the guy wasn't lying about power...

Rear brakes are likely going back to stock....with the brembos up front, I don't really need that much rear brake unless I can actually keep the rear from dancing.

[dankstang]

Aggie, don't mean to hijack your thread but I need your input (& others)
I've yet to O/T or A/X, but I'm building my roller up for it.
I need to get my drivetrain going.
I have a 383 stroker (yes 351W) roller shortblock ready for assembly.
Not sure how to build my top end. All-out torque or top end screamer?
I have windsor jr heads, xe274hr, edelbrock EFI so far, but I'm OK with changing that combo to something that'll better suit my needs.

What about the 5spd vs 6spd debate? I have 3.55's

[aggie97]

Aggie, don't mean to hijack your thread but I need your input (& others)
I've yet to O/T or A/X, but I'm building my roller up for it.
I need to get my drivetrain going.
I have a 383 stroker (yes 351W) roller shortblock ready for assembly.
Not sure how to build my top end. All-out torque or top end screamer?
I have windsor jr heads, xe274hr, edelbrock EFI so far, but I'm OK with changing that combo to something that'll better suit my needs.

What about the 5spd vs 6spd debate? I have 3.55's

build it for torque, go 5 spd with 3.27's and you will be good to go. Get the car light enough and with enough torque and taller gears the drive train will last forever........

[Murph Tang]

hell get you a front wheel drive car and don't have to worry about wheel hop!

I'm kidding of course.

I just like the idea of hammering a car 5 times a day 20 minutes at a time without getting a ticket.

[Darren M]

Aggie, don't mean to hijack your thread but I need your input (& others)
I've yet to O/T or A/X, but I'm building my roller up for it.
I need to get my drivetrain going.
I have a 383 stroker (yes 351W) roller shortblock ready for assembly.
Not sure how to build my top end. All-out torque or top end screamer?
I have windsor jr heads, xe274hr, edelbrock EFI so far, but I'm OK with changing that combo to something that'll better suit my needs.

What about the 5spd vs 6spd debate? I have 3.55's

Just get the thing going first. Save some $$$ and spend it on track time!!! (Autocross a few times first, IMNSHO.) Once you get the car going improve the driver, THEN the car. Perhaps some words of wisdom from Carroll Shelby..... "Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races." Better upgrade those brakes. With the kind of power you're looking to make you're going to need them.

[Murph Tang]

Just get the thing going first. Save some $$$ and spend it on track time!!! (Autocross a few times first, IMNSHO.) Once you get the car going improve the driver, THEN the car. Perhaps some words of wisdom from Carroll Shelby..... "Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races." Better upgrade those brakes. With the kind of power you're looking to make you're going to need them.

I agree.

last time I was at TWS there was a gentlemen who had a supercharged 427 C5 Corvette. He put it into the wall. I offered my condolences and he said, "too much horsepower." I thought.....too much car for driver.

My 2 pennies is to have good brakes, suspension and tires. Then learn how to keep momentum and drive. Everytime I drive on a track I learn something new and how much MORE I have to learn.

Keep a repair fund because something will let go. Then you can upgrade to something stronger and probably by that time you are ready to go faster.

[SLOWRETARDO]

If my car was running Id beat all of you bitches

[dankstang]

Thanks Murph & Pete....

I'm excited to get it on the road.
I guess I should direct my EFI money towards suspension work & go carb.

This is what I got so far in suspension:
UPR K-member with coil-overs 450#
Subframes
MM Torque Arm
MM Panhard Bar
H&R Springs
MM CC plates
Full Custom Cage
Custom Rear-strut tower brace

What's left?
coil-overs in rear?

[90lx86svo]

Thanks Murph & Pete....

I'm excited to get it on the road.
I guess I should direct my EFI money towards suspension work & go carb.

This is what I got so far in suspension:
UPR K-member with coil-overs 450#
Subframes
MM Torque Arm
MM Panhard Bar
H&R Springs
MM CC plates
Full Custom Cage
Custom Rear-strut tower brace

What's left?
coil-overs in rear?

I would not use the UPR k-member, Griggs or MM only, unless you have a deathwish.

[dankstang]

I would not use the UPR k-member, Griggs or MM only, unless you have a deathwish.


Whoa....I know MM and Griggs is the best...but dam death wish :confused:

Show me where people have died upgrading their K-member....

[Darren M]

You want to skimp on a K member??. I mean let's think about what this thing is going to do for a living, other than holding together what looks to be one hell of a torque monster. Not me. No thanks. If I aboslutely had to get another Kmember I'd sit out a few HPDE's and get one from a company that openly states they build for safety. Hell, for all intents and purposes the stock unit is fine for even most blue group runners. It really is the last thing that get's modified, as far as I've seen. Matt did his because he ran out of driver and needed to compensate. ;) j/k Matt.

[90lx86svo]

Whoa....I know MM and Griggs is the best...but dam death wish :confused:

Show me where people have died upgrading their K-member....

Taking off the stock one and putting a UPR on is not upgrading. Why not go with a proven product? They are hacks, all the products are cheap knockoffs of Griggs and MM.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638&highlight=upr
http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=21550

[Darren M]

SUCK IT!!
:D

[aggie97]

Taking off the stock one and putting a UPR on is not upgrading. Why not go with a proven product? They are hacks, all the products are cheap knockoffs of Griggs and MM.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638&highlight=upr
http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=21550

I wouldn't even go that far......I was looking at Andrew's AJE k member on sunday and the lower portion of the unit is made up of the pivot of the A-arm.....Not real beefy if you drop a wheel or hit a wall....or touch wheels with another car. The MM k-member probably did not lose ANY weight over the stocker because it is built to last the life of the car. If you see one in person, you will understand what I mean. The second thing you spend the money for is to change the geometry which in my case has created so much front grip that I MUST use both hands to steer and my arms and hands hurt after about 30 minutes on track. Before I could drive the car with one hand driving it like a stunt driver spinning the wheel freely. You think I am exaggerating but this car doesn't resemble a mustang AT ALL when it comes to cornering. It makes a stock GT or even cobra feel like a wet noodle.

Oh, and Darren.....sheesh! You know I got skillz boy!!!

[dankstang]

Taking off the stock one and putting a UPR on is not upgrading. Why not go with a proven product? They are hacks, all the products are cheap knockoffs of Griggs and MM.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638&highlight=upr
http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=21550


thanks...I registered on CC last night. Good site, and was about to post up similar stuff there too.
<----gets ready for whippin

Well the UPR k-member came with the roller. It's the chromoly one too.

I guess I could sell it and buy a MM one. I'd like to have a full MM car anyways....another setback though


SUCK IT!!

LOL. Nice CC frontpage

[90lx86svo]

thanks...I registered on CC last night. Good site, and was about to post up similar stuff there too.
<----gets ready for whippin

Well the UPR k-member came with the roller. It's the chromoly one too.

I guess I could sell it and buy a MM one. I'd like to have a full MM car anyways....another setback though


That is probably a good idea. You should be able to recoup most of your $.

[Darren M]

LOL. Nice CC frontpage
You'll come to find that this mantra isn't just 2 words on a web page. Well, at least one can hope you will.

[aggie97]

I guess I could sell it and buy a MM one. I'd like to have a full MM car anyways....


Yes and the matched set will have the correct roll centers which really sets the car in the corner.....

[chicane23]

Matt is hooked and ready for more! ;-)

Let this be a lesson for all, once you start Open Tracking/road racing you can't stop. Trust me!

The blue Griggs Racing #23 is for sale and will be in the next American Iron race at TWS on Aug. 20-21.
All new Griggs Racing SLA front suspension and an 8.8 hybrid cambered rearend. Everything is new even the shocks.

New motor with one event on it and runs great!

Matt if you need anything please let me know, I would be glad to help out.

If you need a new set of Koni's and Coil-over, please let me know I will get you a great price.

If anyone needs any Griggs Racing suspension parts let me know as well, I am a Griggs dealer. ;-)

Hope to see all in College station very soon.


John G.
www.chicane23.com

[aggie97]

If anyone needs any Griggs Racing suspension parts let me know as well, I am a Griggs dealer. ;-)

www.chicane23.com

Careful JG....don't "advertise" on here too much!!!

I need to get a price on a set of Koni DA struts for the front. Fox body part number of course. I already have the coil overs that should fit them. I am just getting rid of the tokicos. I am probably going to do the MM race valved bilsteins in the rear to try and control some axle hop as the Koni DA's are freaking expensive on the rear and "difficult" to adjust. I think Brian Shrugg over on the East coast ran this setup on his cobra and was happy and cured the same problem I am having under hard braking and the MM torque arm.

Send me the price on the koni's to matt@aggie97.com

Thanks,

[bobs94formula]

Great vid again Matt!! Looks fun.

I am finally starting my new project, 90 coupe for CMC!!! I figure it'll be the cheapest way to start, car wise anyways ;).
Bob