Going to the track Friday, guess my ET, combo inside

[White90GT]

Just thought I would give some of you a chance to guess my ET before I head to the track. I'll be headed to Houston Raceway Park in Baytown on Friday. Weather looks good, 68 high and low 50s for the low.
A little background:
July 4th this year I blew my last 349 stroker. A 150 shot proved to be too much at about 475 rwhp through the non-lockup C4. Block split and ruined the assembly. Bent a few valves, blew a hole in the oil pan, cracked two cylinders, busted timing cover, busted snout off the crank, etc...
The best I got on that motor in 80 degree weather was 11.46@117mph.
That setup was:
349 stroker kit, eagle crank, h-beams, and SRP pistons cut for twisted wedges, 11:1 compression with 56cc heads
TFS twisted wedges with a little home polishing, but no real port work, 3 angle valve job.
Lunati 51012 cam 544/560 232/242 112 lsa
Victor EFI intake, 30 lb injectors, 75mm t/b, 76mm C&L maf
MAC 1 3/4 longtubes to 2.5" offroad exhaust and mufflers
Performance Automatic C4, PA 3200 rpm C4 converter, footbrake only, 3.73 gears and 28" tires.
Race weight was 3050 lbs, suspension setup to hook solid with that combo and good enough for consistent 1.45-1.49 on nitrous (1.45 on 150 shot, 1.49 on the 125 shot) it went 10.70@126.9 on the 125 pills, never ran it full 1/4 on the 150 pills

Now the new combo:
New/used 347 shortblock: Eagle forged crank, eagle h-beams, Ross dished pistons with flycuts compression 10:1
Same twisted wedges with some port work: Flow 281 cfm int and 215 cfm exh at .600 lift with good low lift numbers as well
Same lunati cam 544/560 232/242 112 lsa
Switch to a Holley Systemax intake, lower runners matched to heads, upper untouched, 75 t/b, Pro M 77 maf (switch from the C&L), 30 lb injectors
Same exhaust Mac 1 3/4 to 2.5" (may switch to 3" eventually)
Same tranny, new Trans King 8" converter should hit around 4400 rpm or so
Same 3.73 gears, same 28" tires
Same raceweight 3050 lbs n/a
Running the stock computer with no tuning this Friday, will tune with timing and fuel pressure. After I baseline it friday and get what I can from it, I'm taking it to Strictly Performance for a dyno-tune and diablo chip.

So in short, the changes for the new combo are:
Holley Systemax Intake (instead of Victor)
Ported the heads, picked up quite a bit from previous form
less compression at 10:1
Pro M maf instead of the C&L which ran way rich at 11.5:1 a/f
Smaller, looser converter from 3200 to 4400 rpm to help that 60 ft more!

Whats your ET guesses? I'm hoping for an 11.30 right off the trailer then tune from there.

[TRAXX]

hey Carl...I suck at predictions but yours sounds good to me.

Good luck with it!

[slow-oh555]

11.50-11.60...somewhere around there without a tune...I just can't see that combo running low 11's on motor without a really agressive tune...Hopefully I'm wrong good luck.

[White90GT]

11.50-11.60...somewhere around there without a tune...I just can't see that combo running low 11's on motor without a really agressive tune...Hopefully I'm wrong good luck.

The last combo went 11.46@117mph with only my tuning of the timing and fuel pressure, I never had a dyno tune put on the car. All the tuning was done by me at the engine, never touched the stock computer. That previous best was also in 80 degree weather whereas Friday night will be 68 for the high, zero chance of rain, so humidity shouldn't be bad. These heads flow a bunch more than stock twisted wedges and actually outflow AFR 185s that everyone is using and making 400+ on 347s at the wheels. 11.50 is slow, if it doesn't run a 11.30 on Friday night I'll be pissed!

[musclestang89]

sounds like a strong combo, but don't get pissed if it doesn't run what you want it right off the triailer. Its all part of racing and I think you know this. Just takes some time. Good luck with it and post up how it does.

You ever planning on stepping up to a stronger block so you don't hurt you internals again?

[White90GT]

sounds like a strong combo, but don't get pissed if it doesn't run what you want it right off the triailer. Its all part of racing and I think you know this. Just takes some time. Good luck with it and post up how it does.

You ever planning on stepping up to a stronger block so you don't hurt you internals again?

When I get another available $2k I'll go with a dart or R block. Just don't have the funds. Until then, nitrous use will be minimal and small shots. I'm trying to get the car to run a 10.90 n/a and I think I can get there. Obviously the cam will be the hindering factor at this point for n/a performance. I've seen the numbers on one of Ed Curtis' custom grind cams for a 347, AFR 185 head (which mine outflow), Victor intake, 3200 stall. They were:
.577 int, .574 exh, 236/240 duration at .050, 112 lsa

Doesn't sound too much bigger than mine 544/560 232/242 112 lsa

[slowbrick]

sound like a lot of broken parts ..... just kidding , bet it hauls ass

[musclestang89]

When I get another available $2k I'll go with a dart or R block. Just don't have the funds. Until then, nitrous use will be minimal and small shots. I'm trying to get the car to run a 10.90 n/a and I think I can get there. Obviously the cam will be the hindering factor at this point for n/a performance. I've seen the numbers on one of Ed Curtis' custom grind cams for a 347, AFR 185 head (which mine outflow), Victor intake, 3200 stall. They were:
.577 int, .574 exh, 236/240 duration at .050, 112 lsa

Doesn't sound too much bigger than mine 544/560 232/242 112 lsa



10.9's would be sweet to see out of a N/A 347, good luck with it. post up however thing goes

[03ghost]

The last combo went 11.46@117mph with only my tuning of the timing and fuel pressure, I never had a dyno tune put on the car. All the tuning was done by me at the engine, never touched the stock computer. That previous best was also in 80 degree weather whereas Friday night will be 68 for the high, zero chance of rain, so humidity shouldn't be bad. These heads flow a bunch more than stock twisted wedges and actually outflow AFR 185s that everyone is using and making 400+ on 347s at the wheels. 11.50 is slow, if it doesn't run a 11.30 on Friday night I'll be pissed!


dropping a whole point in compression is going to hurt a lot in my opinion plus the fuel pressure and timing will want to be a little different from your last motor.... I bet I'm pretty close to the runs you will make right off the trailor..


damn....I keep forgetting to log off her screen name!

<------slow-oh555

[OMEGA DOOM]

if the tune is on the money I say at least a 10.99 and a 10.30 on spray but the injector's will need to upgraded to some 42's or a little bigger and then you could see some high 9's!!! Good Luck!!! :D

[White90GT]

if the tune is on the money I say at least a 10.99 and a 10.30 on spray but the injector's will need to upgraded to some 42's or a little bigger and then you could see some high 9's!!! Good Luck!!! :D

Thats what I like to see, optimism!! The tune will get there when we put it on the dyno. Richard Leslz owner of Strictly Performance is sponsoring me the chip and dyno tune, so I'll get all the dyno time I want and re-burns if necessary. I wish I could see some 10.30s, but I'll never try to go that fast with the stock block (at least not until I've got that stroked windsor lined up ready to go!).
But, I don't think an upgrade to 42 lb injectors would be required. The nitrous kit I use is a single NX shark fogger nozzle, injectors make no difference on the nitrous.

[spankustang]

I'll bet less than 20 passes on the stock block!!! :confused: :(

[White90GT]

I'll bet less than 20 passes on the stock block!!! :confused: :(

20 passes, ha ha thats funny. I don't care who ya are, thats funny right there!

If I hadn't sprayed that 150 shot, that last motor would've lasted a couple or few years. The first time before it split I raced it for 2.5 years. This last one had nice shiny silver bearings when I pulled what was left of the main caps LOL. It would've made it a long time.

[GR8WHITE]

if the tune is on the money I say at least a 10.99 and a 10.30 on spray but the injector's will need to upgraded to some 42's or a little bigger and then you could see some high 9's!!! Good Luck!!! :D

No way. 30's are plenty for your combo. It would be slower with the 42's....My old combo would run 10.50's all day with 30 lb. squirters and similar combo, although mine was a 5 speed then...Drivability is better too with the smaller injectors.

[Sick89LX]

Best of luck to you man and your quest for 10's N/A..... :)

[White90GT]

Thanks guys. It survived its first trip around the neighborhood. Drove about 5-6 miles. No leaks, just a little noise that could be either an exhaust leak or misadjusted rocker. I'll run it again today and see if I can figure that out. I must say the converter feels pretty loose. It comes on hard around 4200 or so on the stock tach, but it feels loose in 2nd and 3rd. We'll just have to run it Friday and see what it does. I've got a free stall change if I need it, which I may.

[OMEGA DOOM]

No way. 30's are plenty for your combo. It would be slower with the 42's....My old combo would run 10.50's all day with 30 lb. squirters and similar combo, although mine was a 5 speed then...Drivability is better too with the smaller injectors.I read an article where those guys in pure street or street warrior(i'm not sure which one) ran 42lber's with there combo's N/A? and there has been plenty of people ruunin' 9's with stock block's so why not 10.30's? ask sick89lx how fast stock blocks can go! :D

[White90GT]

I read an article where those guys in pure street or street warrior(i'm not sure which one) ran 42lber's with there combo's N/A? and there has been plenty of people ruunin' 9's with stock block's so why not 10.30's? ask sick89lx how fast stock blocks can go! :D

Sick 89 is not running a stock 87 roller block. He is running a 68 or 69 block that is half filled and treated to quite a bit of machine work if I'm correct.

I've seen stock blocks go 10.00s (at least a couple anyway), but that was behind a blower/turbo car that was not stroked. The stroker puts more side load on the cylinder walls which can contribute to the lifter valley cracking.
I guess I'm just too much of a pussy to risk another $2000 shortblock to go 1/2 second faster. When I have another $2k I'll either build a bigger inch windsor motor or get an R or Dart block to throw my assembly in. Then save up for a fuel system, bump compression a tad, go solid roller, get a two stage setup with a fogger (independent fuel system for the nitrous) and go mid to low 9s! Until then (several years from now) I have to make due with what I've got. Maybe got some more weight out of the car. I seen a totally gutted coupe that weighed 2400 lbs with driver, ran a 347 n/a, small components, Fox lake twisted wedges, victor EFI, longtubes to open exhaust, C4 with 3200 rpm converter, built rear, etc... go 10.30s at 127 mph all motor. The motor had less than mine, made like 375 at the wheels. Motor is now behind a hatch back and five speed running in the 7.30s-7.40s 1/8 mile.

[OMEGA DOOM]

Sick 89 is not running a stock 87 roller block. He is running a 68 or 69 block that is half filled and treated to quite a bit of machine work if I'm correct.

I've seen stock blocks go 10.00s (at least a couple anyway), but that was behind a blower/turbo car that was not stroked. The stroker puts more side load on the cylinder walls which can contribute to the lifter valley cracking.
I guess I'm just too much of a pussy to risk another $2000 shortblock to go 1/2 second faster. When I have another $2k I'll either build a bigger inch windsor motor or get an R or Dart block to throw my assembly in. Then save up for a fuel system, bump compression a tad, go solid roller, get a two stage setup with a fogger (independent fuel system for the nitrous) and go mid to low 9s! Until then (several years from now) I have to make due with what I've got. Maybe got some more weight out of the car. I seen a totally gutted coupe that weighed 2400 lbs with driver, ran a 347 n/a, small components, Fox lake twisted wedges, victor EFI, longtubes to open exhaust, C4 with 3200 rpm converter, built rear, etc... go 10.30s at 127 mph all motor. The motor had less than mine, made like 375 at the wheels. Motor is now behind a hatch back and five speed running in the 7.30s-7.40s 1/8 mile.sick89lx has posted other cars and the black coupe had a stock block bored .30 over that went like 10flat and then went 9.8's with a 331 stroker kit on that same stock block! I think? :confused:

[Sick89LX]

Sick 89 is not running a stock 87 roller block. He is running a 68 or 69 block that is half filled and treated to quite a bit of machine work if I'm correct.

The junk yard 306 that was in the black coupe had a stil 90 model block w/ a dss main girdle and it's best was a 10.05 @135

Then we put a 331 in another stock block and it went 9.81 @140

Only the recent 306 that was in the blue coupe had an early model block that was half filled... :)

[White90GT]

My bad Sick89, I didn't know about the other motors.
I'm still too scared to break another motor. Maybe with the dyno tune I'll get a little braver. But first things first, gotta get it running good n/a and make sure the converter is right.

[slow-oh555]

let us know how it goes! good luck

[White90GT]

It'll probably be Monday before I can post results, but I'll let ya know. Only thing I'm afraid of at this point is how the converter is going to do. I may re-run the valvetrain when I get to the track, but other than that, everything else is solid. Just gotta clean up the car when I get home after work today, load it on the trailer and run.

[White90GT]

anyone else with a guess before I go?

[Super Coupe]

If the converter is no good 11.5. If it is on the money 11.20!!!!!

[White90GT]

Good guess tamestang

OK, here goes the update. It didn't run what I had hoped and my thoughts on the converter were right on. Its too loose on the big end, car just feels flat from 3rd on, mph is down at least 3 mph
First pass off the trailer:
1.54 60 ft :eek (new best n/a, it launched hard)
7.25@93.22 1/8 mile
11.52@114.15 1/4 mile

2nd pass, no changes, just a 10 minute hot lap
1.57 60 ft
7.31@92.96 1/8 mile
11.59@113.74 1/4 mile

3rd pass, added two degrees timing, so we're now at 18 base :eek
1.56 60 ft
7.27@93.49 1/8 mile
11.52@114.63 1/4 mile (picked up a lil mph, good be from timing, could be from better cool down)

4th pass, added 2 psi fuel pressure to bring to 42 psi
1.56 60 ft
7.25@93.75 1/8 mile
11.49@115.02 1/4 mile (picked up some mph again)

5th pass, added 2 more psi fuel to bring to 44 psi
1.57 60 ft
7.28@93.32 1/8 mile
11.54@114.32 1/4 mile didn't really show to like that fuel pressure

6th and final run, took away 6 psi fuel to bring it down to 38 psi (2 psi less than first pass)
1.54 60 ft :eek still spun a little here, pulled the tires then unloaded the rear
7.20@94.29 1/8 mile :eek
11.41@115.32 this is a new best for the car on motor ever, previous was 11.46@117 mph. Once the converter is right and the tune is right, she'll have plenty of potential

The car weighed a little more than I remember. It was 3140 raceweight with me and 1/4 tank of 93

[Mach1Marauder]

Good show man!

[OMEGA DOOM]

congrats on the new best!!! and good luck on the new tune! :cool:

[slow-oh555]

11.50-11.60...somewhere around there without a tune...I just can't see that combo running low 11's on motor without a really agressive tune...Hopefully I'm wrong good luck.


I don't get any props? :(


still pretty quick!

[Moose Jr]

Once you get that convertor figured out and get it tuned with some race gas, I bet you will be real close to some 10's on motor alone.

[TRAXX]

Not bad Carl. A better ET and down ~2mph...so it definitely has potential.

I guess you need to change your sig...since based on this, youre not putting a 306 in it :cool:

[White90GT]

But I beat your time slowohhh LOL

Yeah I was planning a 306, had one in the garage when I decided I wouldn't be happy with it, got another 347 shortblock.

[slow-oh555]

4 out of 6 of your runs were right on with what I said...plus the runs "right off the trailor" were right where I said I thought they would be. It doesn't matter, I'm not trying to say I'm the master at guessing 1/4 mile times, I just thought it was cool that I was so close.

[White90GT]

Yes, you guessed the off the trailer times. I'm just stumped that the mph is so low. Should be 117 at least with that number. I need to do one or two things:
Need more cam to rev a little higher (hindering factor being hydro roller lifters and weight)
Need to tighten the converter to about 3800.

Does anyone know how tight an 8" converter can be set? Is the 8" converter not as efficient as a 10"
My old converter is a 10" 3200ish stall and I trapped 116.9 n/a with an 11.46 ET and only a 1.59 sixty foot.

[Sick89LX]

put a 5spd in it and stop worrying about damn convertors....

[White90GT]

put a 5spd in it and stop worrying about damn convertors....


Then I'd have to spend more money on the rear end, driveshaft, more suspension stuff, etc... It takes a lot to get a 5 speed to hook and keep from breaking stuff.
I'm still running a stock driveshaft, 31 spline mosers with a motorsport carrier, nothing is welded up in the rear yet, and the rear suspension is bone stock save for some poly bushings and airbags.

[Sick89LX]

Then I'd have to spend more money on the rear end, driveshaft, more suspension stuff, etc... It takes a lot to get a 5 speed to hook and keep from breaking stuff.
I'm still running a stock driveshaft, 31 spline mosers with a motorsport carrier, nothing is welded up in the rear yet, and the rear suspension is bone stock save for some poly bushings and airbags.

That rear-end components are fine.....some decent control arms are not hard to find....hell you could weld some plates underneath the stock control arms and they'd be a bit stronger. :o You should have an alluminum driveshaft even with the auto. I am sure somebody would trade you a 5spd setup for a good c4 setup, or you could just sell yours.

It does not take alot to get a 5spd car to hook...I know of plenty that didnt have jack shit for suspension and were cutting 1.4-.5 60ft.

[slow-oh555]

That rear-end components are fine.....some decent control arms are not hard to find....hell you could weld some plates underneath the stock control arms and they'd be a bit stronger. :o You should have an alluminum driveshaft even with the auto. I am sure somebody would trade you a 5spd setup for a good c4 setup, or you could just sell yours.

It does not take alot to get a 5spd car to hook...I know of plenty that didnt have jack shit for suspension and were cutting 1.4-.5 60ft.


I really like the way you think...FUCK an auto

[White90GT]

Back from the dyno. Off the trailer with Friday night's tune it made a measly 302 rwhp. So put that in your pipe and smoke it! 302 rwhp and 11.41@115.29 mph at 3150 lbs

We played around with fuel pressure and timing to get a few more ponies. Then Richard L (owner of Strictly performance) gave me a set of Ford Racing Plug wires (brand new from the box), and a open element K&N filter to see if they gained anything. We managed to get power up to 312 rwhp with that and the other minor adjustments. More adjustments didn't seem to make much difference in peak numbers, though torque increased from 394 to 421 from all the changes we made.

The numbers are all pretty skewed considering the 20% slippage of this converter. I'm going to make one more track trip on this converter (perhaps borrowing a set of 26" ET Drags) to see what I can get out of it, then I'm going to pull it and have it tightened up.

[White90GT]

Well, this Friday 12/17 didn't go as well. I could not get the car to hook at all. First pass off the trailer was the best, 11.48@116.15mph with a 1.62 sixty foot spinning. Didn't even pull the wheels all night. Remaining passes went from 11.5x-11.6x on average, then on a pass the car didn't pull very hard on the top end and I looked at the gas gauge and was below empty. When I got to the ticket booth it almost died, so I putted on over to the pumps at the track and dumped in 3 gallons of 104. Thinking the better fuel might run better if I lean on it, I dropped fuel pressure to 33 psi from 35 psi. Well that hurt, car went 11.9x@113mph. Next run I added 4 psi back bringing up to 37 psi, it ran like crap. Didn't pull hard at all, 1.77 60 ft I let off after that. So I called it a night and loaded the car up. Would running 104 on a 10:1 motor kill performance like that? I was running 93 octane prior. Maybe I sucked some trash into the fuel filter beings the tank hasn't been that empty in a long time?

[Super Coupe]

5 speeds are crap unless you have a good one like a liberty or a g force. That is the only way I would have a 5 speed. :cool: