SO about those "LOST" Jobs

[shrp88lx's]

OK ... so you've fallen for the Kerry line that George Bush is the first president in 72 years to actually lose jobs during his first four years in office. Fine ... believe that if you want to. Please, though, try to come up with a cogent and reasoned answer to this question if you can. The Bureau of Labor Statistics issues a document entitled the "Employment Situation Summary" every month. The most recent survey was released at 8:30 a.m. on Friday, October 8, 2004. This survey indicated that there were 139.5 millions working during September. That, my friends, is a record. Never before have 139.5 million Americans had a job during any survey period.

Here's your question: If a record number of Americans were employed in September of 2004, how can it be said that jobs were lost under President Bush? Come on, folks! Tell me! How do you lose jobs and end up with a record number of Americans working?

By the way ... some more information you can sling around at lunch or dinner today to make yourself seem inestimably wise. The unemployment rate for September was 5.4%. That's considered to be low. Here's a breakdown:

Adult men – 5.0%

Adult women – 4.7%

Teenagers – 16.6%

Now teenagers aren't generally heads of households. That would mean that the unemployment rate for people who actually have to work for a living and support a family is somewhere between 4.7 and 5.0%.

If you want to base your vote for president on the current jobs situation ... fine. Do it. Just get the correct information before you do.

[Toolman]

I was laid off this year when my job was sent to bangalore. I have good skills and I went to school.. I know have a new job, but I dont get paid what I used to get.. so good paying jobs WERE LOST.. while lower paying ones were made..

[scrapwave]

It's a shame that so many good paying jobs are being taken out of the country where they can get the same labor at a fraction of the cost...but is Kerry going to improve that??? If he was going to improve that situation you would think he would start with Heinz, how many jobs have they take out-of-country and away from US citizens??

[mikeb]

The only constant is change. The buggy makers were put out of business by henry ford, etc. I also work in IT and i've seen how outsourcing has reshaped my industry. One of the reasons i'm considering a career change right now is that I don't see a great future for me in this industry.

The people who will do best in this changing economy are the people that can quickly adapt. The world is moving faster than ever before now and that has affected employment whether or not we like it.

I believe I may have to "adapt" within the next 12 months.

[Toolman]

I feel the same way.. thats why I have been looking into constuction managment.. its going to be impossible to send that oversees unless we start shipping homes over the ocean..

[TexasDevilDog]

I would like to add my 2 cents about outsourcing.

Yes, economies change and business will move to be more competitive. But all we hear is "OUTSOURCING OUTSOURING".

Here is a personal story of insourcing. I work at Nokia mobile phones, which most of you don't know is a company that is based in Finland. Nokia employs directly >50,000 people world wide. In the USA I think that number is probably around ~3,000 directly and ~3,000 contract workers.

Those jobs are not only manufacturing jobs. Nokia has 3 R&D centers, San Diego, Dallas, Boston. There is one in VanCouver BC Canada.

[sonic03gt]

I would like to add my 2 cents about outsourcing.

Yes, economies change and business will move to be more competitive. But all we hear is "OUTSOURCING OUTSOURING".

Here is a personal story of insourcing. I work at Nokia mobile phones, which most of you don't know is a company that is based in Finland. Nokia employs directly >50,000 people world wide. In the USA I think that number is probably around ~3,000 directly and ~3,000 contract workers.

Those jobs are not only manufacturing jobs. Nokia has 3 R&D centers, San Diego, Dallas, Boston. There is one in VanCouver BC Canada.


Yeah, and you can also add to the list foriegn automakers who have moved to the U.S. as well. It's good for the economy overall, but it does suck that some people are losing their jobs.

[Stroked87]

It's a shame that so many good paying jobs are being taken out of the country where they can get the same labor at a fraction of the cost...but is Kerry going to improve that??? If he was going to improve that situation you would think he would start with Heinz, how many jobs have they take out-of-country and away from US citizens??There is no way that Kerry can stop or fix the outsourcing of jobs to overseas countries, however what he said was that he could make it a more even playing field by taking away the tax credits companies receive for doing so and by instating a tax credit to companies for hiring within the US. If a company is going to outsource to another country to save money that is their right to do so, but why the hell should our government reward them for it by giving them more tax breaks.

And as far as Heinz goes that is pretty much a moot point to try and bring up, first of all neither Kerry nor his wife have anything more to do with Heinz then the fact that she is the heiress to the company fortune. She makes no decisions within the Heinz corporation, that would be like saying that Paris Hilton runs and dictates what the Hilton corporation does. Secondly, Heinz does not outsource their work to other countries to have the product made cheaper and then sell it for more here. They acquired (read: purchased) companies in other countries so that they can sell to those markets. They didn't take any US citizens job away by doing that!!

[46Tbird]

I'm with ya 100% Stroked. Although, I don't know that reducing tax credits is going to get back 1.6million jobs, if you believe that figure.

[TexasDevilDog]

Yeah, and you can also add to the list foriegn automakers who have moved to the U.S. as well. It's good for the economy overall, but it does suck that some people are losing their jobs.

I agee. Losing a job is a major PITA. It doesn't really matter that the unempolyment rate is in the 5-6% range. When one person in a household unemployed is either 50 or 100% unemployment.

If people cared about their employer 1/2 as much as people think their employer should care about them, they would monitor how their business is doing. They would take an interest in how the business is run and how to make improvements, instead of showing up for work and just "doing my job." Big changes in market and industry wouldn't be a big shock when the company has to make changes.

Nokia shares a bunch of confidential information with the employees about vision, direction, growth, change, new products and processes. A well informed employee is productive due to less speculation about the business. Even if other companies aren't as forth coming, it is basically, taking an interest in the business you work at. Productivity rises when the employee care about the business. America is the most productive place to do business but productivity can only cut cost so far.

[Stroked87]

I'm with ya 100% Stroked. Although, I don't know that reducing tax credits is going to get back 1.6million jobs, if you believe that figure.
It may not get back those jobs, but by reversing the tax credit to the other side and rewarding them for hiring within the US might get some of the jobs back. Even if it didn't create or get back those jobs, then at least I would personally feel better about whomever is in office knowing that they stopped rewarding companies for taking away US jobs.

[Pro Trash]

It's a shame that so many good paying jobs are being taken out of the country where they can get the same labor at a fraction of the cost...but is Kerry going to improve that??? If he was going to improve that situation you would think he would start with Heinz, how many jobs have they take out-of-country and away from US citizens??

How many times must it be broken down that the Heinz Corporation is just that a corporation. A corporation is chartered so they can be recognized as a seperate legal entity from it's members having it's own legal liabilities and rights. With that said you need to also know that the Hienz Corporation donates to and supports the republican party. You really should do some research before you make yourself look stupid.

[AL P]

The argument about Heinz is lame at best. Kerry's wife isn't even listed as a major shareholder:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=HNZ

In fact, the company is basically owned by mutual funds. No wonder they are outsourcing jobs.

As for jobs going overseas. Of course they are. Why would a company do business in this country where every employee thinks they should make $50,000 a year, have a union and have 100% free healthcare where everytime little Johnny junior has the shits they take him to see the doctor. People in other countries don't do that kind of stuff or have that kind of mentality. People have lost their work ethic in this country and have replaced it with a big giant dose of ENTITLEMENT. So what the hell should we expect? These companies are in business to make money, they aren't charitable institutions.

I've becomed jaded in my view of employees here lately. I have an ad in the Dallas Morning News looking for an admin assistant and the resumes that I get are in-fucking-credible. Mis-spelled words, bullshit, people who have had 5 jobs in three years. I can't figure out what the fuck is wrong with people these days.

[Paladin]

The argument about Heinz is lame at best. Kerry's wife isn't even listed as a major shareholder:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=HNZ

In fact, the company is basically owned by mutual funds. No wonder they are outsourcing jobs.

As for jobs going overseas. Of course they are. Why would a company do business in this country where every employee thinks they should make $50,000 a year, have a union and have 100% free healthcare where everytime little Johnny junior has the shits they take him to see the doctor. People in other countries don't do that kind of stuff or have that kind of mentality. People have lost their work ethic in this country and have replaced it with a big giant dose of ENTITLEMENT. So what the hell should we expect? These companies are in business to make money, they aren't charitable institutions.

I've becomed jaded in my view of employees here lately. I have an ad in the Dallas Morning News looking for an admin assistant and the resumes that I get are in-fucking-credible. Mis-spelled words, bullshit, people who have had 5 jobs in three years. I can't figure out what the fuck is wrong with people these days.


Well said and this falls in line with education. There is no RIGHT to have a high paying job, you must earn it. We have become very lazy as a society, no doubt.

[Stroked87]

With that said you need to also know that the Hienz Corporation donates to and supports the republican party. You really should do some research before you make yourself look stupid.Pro Trash, while I am on the same party lines as you and agree with some of things you say I feel that I need to correct this statement as it is partially true and a bit misleading. Yes, the Heinz corporation does donate to the Republican campaign but it also donates to the Democratic National Committee. Also, they do not Support the republican party and they have gone to great lengths to show that they are Non-Partisan and support both sides.

For more information about this Click Here! (http://www.heinz.com/jsp/nonpartisan.jsp)

[46Tbird]

Heinz isn't outsourcing any jobs, they are simply hiring people near the locales where product is consumed. Why spend billions in shipping and leave the potential for spoiled food?

[Kaji]

As for jobs going overseas. Of course they are. Why would a company do business in this country where every employee thinks they should make $50,000 a year, have a union and have 100% free healthcare where everytime little Johnny junior has the shits they take him to see the doctor. People in other countries don't do that kind of stuff or have that kind of mentality. People have lost their work ethic in this country and have replaced it with a big giant dose of ENTITLEMENT. So what the hell should we expect? These companies are in business to make money, they aren't charitable institutions.

That's the biggest point here. People think they are entitled to those things and not have to work for them.

[scrapwave]

There is no way that Kerry can stop or fix the outsourcing of jobs to overseas countries, however what he said was that he could make it a more even playing field by taking away the tax credits companies receive for doing so and by instating a tax credit to companies for hiring within the US. If a company is going to outsource to another country to save money that is their right to do so, but why the hell should our government reward them for it by giving them more tax breaks.

And as far as Heinz goes that is pretty much a moot point to try and bring up, first of all neither Kerry nor his wife have anything more to do with Heinz then the fact that she is the heiress to the company fortune. She makes no decisions within the Heinz corporation, that would be like saying that Paris Hilton runs and dictates what the Hilton corporation does. Secondly, Heinz does not outsource their work to other countries to have the product made cheaper and then sell it for more here. They acquired (read: purchased) companies in other countries so that they can sell to those markets. They didn't take any US citizens job away by doing that!!
Ok, I concede that point. My bad. I do agree that rewarding with tax credits isn't going to solve anything either. Gov't should have to bribe companies to keep their productions here in the US.

[scrapwave]

How many times must it be broken down that the Heinz Corporation is just that a corporation. A corporation is chartered so they can be recognized as a seperate legal entity from it's members having it's own legal liabilities and rights. With that said you need to also know that the Hienz Corporation donates to and supports the republican party. You really should do some research before you make yourself look stupid.
I just stated that I conceded on that point and that was my mistake. You really do enjoy degrading and name calling others don't you?

[Paladin]

Pro Trash, while I am on the same party lines as you and agree with some of things you say I feel that I need to correct this statement as it is partially true and a bit misleading. Yes, the Heinz corporation does donate to the Republican campaign but it also donates to the Democratic National Committee. Also, they do not Support the republican party and they have gone to great lengths to show that they are Non-Partisan and support both sides.

For more information about this Click Here! (http://www.heinz.com/jsp/nonpartisan.jsp)

Partial truths and a bit misleading statements from PT? Say it aint so!

[WhtEdge]

The argument about Heinz is lame at best. Kerry's wife isn't even listed as a major shareholder:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=HNZ

In fact, the company is basically owned by mutual funds. No wonder they are outsourcing jobs.

As for jobs going overseas. Of course they are. Why would a company do business in this country where every employee thinks they should make $50,000 a year, have a union and have 100% free healthcare where everytime little Johnny junior has the shits they take him to see the doctor. People in other countries don't do that kind of stuff or have that kind of mentality. People have lost their work ethic in this country and have replaced it with a big giant dose of ENTITLEMENT. So what the hell should we expect? These companies are in business to make money, they aren't charitable institutions.


You hit the nail on the head. In a way we have become our own worst enemies. I work in a job were I hear people b*tch and complain all the time. Most of them think they are owed something right off from the beginning. Everyone it seems feels like they are owed something. Pretty sad.

[TexasDevilDog]

You hit the nail on the head. In a way we have become our own worst enemies. I work in a job were I hear people b*tch and complain all the time. Most of them think they are owed something right off from the beginning. Everyone it seems feels like they are owed something. Pretty sad.

I remember something like that a couple years ago. This guy was telling me that I was working to hard and making everyone else look bad. I told him that he needed to work harder if he was wanting to get a promotion and such. He said, "I aint working harder, until they give me a pay raise." I told him that he had it backwards, that they were not going to give him a pay raise unless he fixed more phones. So, five years later, he still bemoans his lot in life. I have moved up and double my payrate since then.

[Sgt Beavis]

I was laid off this year when my job was sent to bangalore. I have good skills and I went to school.. I know have a new job, but I dont get paid what I used to get.. so good paying jobs WERE LOST.. while lower paying ones were made..


If I were your boss, I wouldn't have sent your job to Bangalore. I would have sent your ass to Bangalore and left you there. Unfortunately, your boss wasn't that smart.

[AL P]

I remember something like that a couple years ago. This guy was telling me that I was working to hard and making everyone else look bad. I told him that he needed to work harder if he was wanting to get a promotion and such. He said, "I aint working harder, until they give me a pay raise." I told him that he had it backwards, that they were not going to give him a pay raise unless he fixed more phones. So, five years later, he still bemoans his lot in life. I have moved up and double my payrate since then.

Damn, i thought for a minute you were working at the GM assembly plant in Arlington.

People who work there with no high school diploma and absolutely no skills whatsoever make $21 an hour and some of the best benefits under the sun to do basic mechanical work and still think they are getting absolutely SCREWED.

[Dacotua]

It amazes me every time a Presidential Election comes up how JOBS become a issue. It is NOT the Presidents responsibly for you to have a job. The primary responsibly for the President of the United States is the Security of the Nation. That is why he is the Commander and Chief. The Congress of the United States is the branch of the government that makes the laws, controls the budget, and has the power of taxation. The Congress is more the branch of government that deals with the interior of the nation. The President has to “ASK” for congress to pass bills that the president would like to see happen, but its solely up to congress. Congress can do anything they want to the interior of the nation by pass laws, controlling the budget, and controlling taxes. Congress can completely delete the president from the equation if they want.

Everyone in the United States lives under the freedoms that the people before us fought for. As a free society, it is NOT the governments responsibility for YOU to have a job, IT’S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO FIND YOURSELF A JOB.

Lets even look at history, Even John F. Kennedy said, “It’s NOT what your country can do for you, it’s what you can do for your country.”

In the Late 90’s people were sue happy. They blamed everyone else except themselves.

A lady goes to McDonalds and buys a hot cup of coffee, and just because she’s too clumsy, and spills it on her lap, she sues the fast food giant.

Rodney King gets completely doped up and charges police, then sues the police because they beat him into submission and because of the influence of drugs, he shouldn’t be responsible for his actions. You do realize even the United States government issued .45 caliber handguns to troops in the early 1900’s because the 38’s wouldn’t stop someone doped up.

People need to wake up and take responsibility for their actions. Its plan and simple.

Last year, I lost my job. I lost it because my company got bought out by a larger one. I had a choice, either stay in Texas and be unemployed, or moved to California where their corporate headquarters is located. I decided to stay in Texas. I went out and sent resumes to many local companies and had another equivalent job within one month. Was it the presidents fault that I lost my job? Absolutely not. The business world changes and each of us need to have a plan if the changes will effect us. The point is, I made it MY RESPONSIBILITY to make sure I had a job.

There are jobs going overseas. Is this the presidents fault? Absolutely Not. Jobs and skills change in the United States. If you want to blame anyone for that, you should blame the CONGRESS. Congress has the power to create and ratify treaties. If anyone can be blamed between Bush or Kerry, you have to blame Kerry. He’s apart of congress and also look at his business’s. His and his wifes business “Hienz” has outsourced jobs to foreign countries and have even closed US Plants to move those factories abroad.

As far as people who argue that we should keep jobs here in the United States. Hundreds of years ago, the profession being an Alchemist was a highly desired job. Governments paid huge for the skills of those people. Do those jobs still pay well today? Absolutely not. Just because your parents was a Alchemist, doesn’t mean you can make a living doing the same thing. Point is, just because the skills of a particular profession was desirable in this country in the past, doesn’t mean it will be desirable today.

Look at the Airline Industry. Years ago, anyone who worked in that field got paid huge. But today, I would argue that the future in that industry is drying up. Planes are beginning to fly themselves, which in the future will probably mean the end of the pilot. Mechanics used to have to diagnose what was wrong with airplanes, today computers tell mechanics what is wrong. Even the car industry is getting effected. Cars are built better, last longer, and are less likely to break down than their 10 year old brothers, so the need for car mechanics will decline.

How many people here take their TV/VCR/DVD Players into someone to fix them after they break? I’m willing to say 80% of you just go out and buy a new one, because its cheaper. So is it the presidents fault that TV Repair shops are closing up? Nope, the times have changed.

[TexasDevilDog]

Lets even look at history, Even John F. Kennedy said, “It’s NOT what your country can do for you, it’s what you can do for your country.”


Dude, you better change that before you get gang banged!

My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you: Ask what you can do for your country. -John F. Kennedy

[Stroked87]

His and his wifes business “Hienz” has outsourced jobs to foreign countries and have even closed US Plants to move those factories abroad.
You should read the prior posts because this statement is just not true. First of all the company does not belong to either of them so saying "his and his wifes business" is false and misleading. Secondly, if you do a little more research on the subject they have not outsourced any of those jobs to foreign countries, they have however purchased other companies abroad and opened plants abroad to accomodate those areas not to manufacture their product for the U.S.

[Dacotua]

You should read the prior posts because this statement is just not true. First of all the company does not belong to either of them so saying "his and his wifes business" is false and misleading. Secondly, if you do a little more research on the subject they have not outsourced any of those jobs to foreign countries, they have however purchased other companies abroad and opened plants abroad to accomodate those areas not to manufacture their product for the U.S.

Start reading the bottles of Ketchup. Most the bottles you'll see will say made in Pennsylvania, but I have personally found bottles of Hienz Ketchup that have said made in China.

[bucky]

You hit the nail on the head. In a way we have become our own worst enemies. I work in a job were I hear people b*tch and complain all the time. Most of them think they are owed something right off from the beginning. Everyone it seems feels like they are owed something. Pretty sad.

So if you work for a company for 30 years and retire are you not owed a pension? Many companies(e.g. the airlines) are trying to dump these.
So as a good employee for a company should you not be afforded affordable health insurance? Where do you draw the line on what your owed.
Clarify please.

[46Tbird]

So if you work for a company for 30 years and retire are you not owed a pension? No, you aren't. If you negotiated for it in your contract, then after 30 years you have EARNED a pension.

If you didn't negotiate that, then .. maybe you should have made better decisions over the past 30 years.

[AL P]

No, you aren't. If you negotiated for it in your contract, then after 30 years you have EARNED a pension.

If you didn't negotiate that, then .. maybe you should have made better decisions over the past 30 years.

And worked somewhere else.

In the big bad world you get what you NEGOTIATE. You aren't owed jack shit. You get in there and tell someone what you want and then tell them why. If your price is too high then go somewhere else.

[bucky]

Most are negotiated in contracts.Companies are asking bankruptcy judges to thow them out.

[AL P]

Most are negotiated in contracts.Companies are asking bankruptcy judges to thow them out.

There are very few companies with a defined benefit plan anymore. If you are unlucky enough to work for one, you should hedge your bets and invest for your own retirement. To not do so is wreckless and you have no one to blame but yourself. While I agree that in that case you are OWED something, its just like any other entity that owes you money, it's not guaranteed and you should approach it in the same way.

[mopar63]

So your "underemployed" not "unemployed”. Big difference there Tool. My job was outsourced last year, I worked for a foreign company here in Dallas and my job was “outsourced” to a U.S. based company. You don’t here me bitching, I did take a pay cut, I have changed jobs a time or 2 since to better myself, I am getting closer to the pay I had. Was any of this Bush’s fault, HELL NO It was a business decision made by the company I worked for. Try to keep up here, how many companies will move jobs out if Kerry is elected and raises the minimum wage like he claims he will do, PLENTY. Unlike your baseless claims of job losses you will see a lot of companies take jobs out of the U.S. so they can pay an unskilled worker less money than an unskilled worker here.

[bucky]

So your "underemployed" not "unemployed”. Big difference there Tool. My job was outsourced last year, I worked for a foreign company here in Dallas and my job was “outsourced” to a U.S. based company. You don’t here me bitching, I did take a pay cut, I have changed jobs a time or 2 since to better myself, I am getting closer to the pay I had. Was any of this Bush’s fault, HELL NO It was a business decision made by the company I worked for. Try to keep up here, how many companies will move jobs out if Kerry is elected and raises the minimum wage like he claims he will do, PLENTY. Unlike your baseless claims of job losses you will see a lot of companies take jobs out of the U.S. so they can pay an unskilled worker less money than an unskilled worker here.

Whos bitching?I was presenting some scenarios to hear some responses.I was interested what people thought on the issue.Good luck on your job changes.

[AL P]

Whos bitching?I was presenting some scenarios to hear some responses.I was interested what people thought on the issue.Good luck on your job changes.

He was talking to the board's whippin boy, TOOLMAN.

[mopar63]

Whos bitching?I was presenting some scenarios to hear some responses.I was interested what people thought on the issue.Good luck on your job changes.

Not you Bucky, trying to explain reality to Toolman.

[AL P]

Not you Bucky, trying to explain reality to Toolman.

That's like trying to dig to China....

[TexasDevilDog]

Most are negotiated in contracts.Companies are asking bankruptcy judges to thow them out.

That is wrong. Many companies are finding out that they can't aford their wild promises. So, that is why many companies pay in to the federal pension protection program. When a company goes under, guess who pay the pension. Yep, you and me.

[aggie97]

I was laid off this year when my job was sent to bangalore. I have good skills and I went to school.. I know have a new job, but I dont get paid what I used to get.. so good paying jobs WERE LOST.. while lower paying ones were made..

I am going to ask you a question..... Do you think those people in Banglapor are getting free cokes, coffee and health insurance? No. So, that costs less. Not a political or even a government decision. It's and economic and shareholder decision.

Oh, and Construction Management!!! I have been doing it for 10 years and have been laid off 3 times..... Trust me, you ain't got the balls or it!!!

[aggie97]

So if you work for a company for 30 years and retire are you not owed a pension? Many companies(e.g. the airlines) are trying to dump these.
So as a good employee for a company should you not be afforded affordable health insurance? Where do you draw the line on what your owed.
Clarify please.

YOu are owed by the government a basic education, the opportunity to higher education and the basic ability to read/write. All other "entitlements" are for YOU to achieve. Everyone's current situation is based on EVERY decision you made since you left your parent's protection. Period.

Most people will say fuck the democrats or to hell with republicans. I say fuck the losers and whiners.

[bobs94formula]

Here is a personal story of insourcing. I work at Nokia mobile phones, which most of you don't know is a company that is based in Finland. Nokia employs directly >50,000 people world wide. In the USA I think that number is probably around ~3,000 directly and ~3,000 contract workers.

Those jobs are not only manufacturing jobs. Nokia has 3 R&D centers, San Diego, Dallas, Boston. There is one in VanCouver BC Canada.

Nokia is not as great as you are making it out to be. 6,000 people directly and contract is a fraction of what they used to employ directly in the US. When they shut down Alliance they laid off a lot of people, even though it made more phones than any other plant, it was more cost effective to move over seas. Heck I am not complaining I would have done the same thing if I ran the business. Now Alliance has some people boxing phones there and that's about it.

I worked at Alliance back a few years ago, before all the downturning and layoffs.

[Stng5Pnt8]

OK ... so you've fallen for the Kerry line that George Bush is the first president in 72 years to actually lose jobs during his first four years in office. Fine ... believe that if you want to. Please, though, try to come up with a cogent and reasoned answer to this question if you can. The Bureau of Labor Statistics issues a document entitled the "Employment Situation Summary" every month. The most recent survey was released at 8:30 a.m. on Friday, October 8, 2004. This survey indicated that there were 139.5 millions working during September. That, my friends, is a record. Never before have 139.5 million Americans had a job during any survey period.

Here's your question: If a record number of Americans were employed in September of 2004, how can it be said that jobs were lost under President Bush? Come on, folks! Tell me! How do you lose jobs and end up with a record number of Americans working?

By the way ... some more information you can sling around at lunch or dinner today to make yourself seem inestimably wise. The unemployment rate for September was 5.4%. That's considered to be low. Here's a breakdown:

Adult men – 5.0%

Adult women – 4.7%

Teenagers – 16.6%

Now teenagers aren't generally heads of households. That would mean that the unemployment rate for people who actually have to work for a living and support a family is somewhere between 4.7 and 5.0%.

If you want to base your vote for president on the current jobs situation ... fine. Do it. Just get the correct information before you do.


not trying to start anything, but our population isn't getting any smaller, therefore, im sure that would have to be taken into consideration.........

(i'm just passing by analyzing what everyone has to say...... carry on!) ;)

[TexasDevilDog]

Nokia is not as great as you are making it out to be. 6,000 people directly and contract is a fraction of what they used to employ directly in the US. When they shut down Alliance they laid off a lot of people, even though it made more phones than any other plant, it was more cost effective to move over seas. Heck I am not complaining I would have done the same thing if I ran the business. Now Alliance has some people boxing phones there and that's about it.

I worked at Alliance back a few years ago, before all the downturning and layoffs.

Yea, they didn't shut down Alliance Gateway phone production. I am working there currently. They did make a bunch of phones here, but I don't think it was all about cheaper production overseas as much as it was the Teamsters.

We get a notice that the Teamsters were trying to unionize the place, couple months later they layoff all the people. I don't think it was coincidence.

[TexasDevilDog]

http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/empsit_nr.htm
Sep 2004
Civilian labor force..... 147,483
Employment............. 139,480
Unemployment........... 8,003
Not in labor force....... 76,458

Jan 2000
Civilian labor force..140,910
Employment.........135,221
Unemployment.......5,689
Not in labor force....67,872

[AL P]

http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/empsit_nr.htm
Sep 2004
Civilian labor force..... 147,483
Employment............. 139,480
Unemployment........... 8,003
Not in labor force....... 76,458

Jan 2000
Civilian labor force..140,910
Employment.........135,221
Unemployment.......5,689
Not in labor force....67,872

Wait....didn't we LOSE jobs or something???