John Kerry cant even defend his own record

[The Punisher]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic

He is so full of crap!
Blame bush, blame bush....

[46Tbird]

Is this true?Bush and the White House have refused to condemn the ads, despite calls to do so — from Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., a former Vietnam prisoner of war, as well as from Democrats.

[The Punisher]

Is this true?
yes, bush has not actively come out and condemned the ads. He has pretty much played its none of his business card. Which it really isnt, this is Kerry vs. the Vets
Yet why should bush condemn the ads?

[Paladin]

Is this true?

I am pretty sure the White House spokesman condemned it, but it didn't get much play except in the talk radio arena. Surprise, surprise!

[46Tbird]

I gotta say, all the swift boat (wtf are those anyway?) talk is really obnoxious. Who cares?

Besides, it looks like the main antagonist is full of shit anyway. click (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20040819/pl_washpost/a13267_2004aug18)

[The Punisher]

I gotta say, all the swift boat (wtf are those anyway?) talk is really obnoxious. Who cares?

Besides, it looks like the main antagonist is full of shit anyway. click (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20040819/pl_washpost/a13267_2004aug18) The whole point is John Kerry is avoiding the substance of their claims and instead attacking their character and Bush.

[jyro]

I gotta say, all the swift boat (wtf are those anyway?) talk is really obnoxious. Who cares?

Besides, it looks like the main antagonist is full of shit anyway.

There's over 200 vets in this group that were in the swiftboats with Kerry, all of them say Kerry is lieing, they are also decorated vets, they deserve to be heard and answered. Here's his answerr to Kerry.

Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow

I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates -- there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.

It was not until I had left the Navy -- approximately three months after I left the service -- that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several minutes later -- under no hail of enemy gunfire -- to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.

Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident -- the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three -- a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire.

And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.

These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?

http://swift2.he.net/~swift2/article.php?story=20040819100856500

[01WhiteCobra]

There's over 200 vets in this group that were in the swiftboats with Kerry, all of them say Kerry is lieing, they are also decorated vets, they deserve to be heard and answered. Here's his answerr to Kerry.



Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.



Last month, Thurlow swore in an affidavit that Kerry was "not under fire" when he fished Lt. James Rassmann out of the water. He described Kerry's Bronze Star citation, which says that all units involved came under "small arms and automatic weapons fire," as "totally fabricated."



A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire.


Oops!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284

[jyro]

Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Van Odell

A courageous, soft spoken man of the Midwest, Larry Thurlow has a heart bigger than the great plains and a commitment to truth and honesty that is boundless. He is under attack, because John Kerry is feeling the heat of truth at the hands of this honest man and others like him.

The Kerry Campaign is attacking the truthfulness of this man and the Bronze Star he so richly deserves for his actions on March 13, 1969. I was there. I saw what happened.

The mine’s detonation lifted PCF-3 completely out of the water just yards ahead of me. All boats commenced suppression fire in case enemy small arms fire ensued. None did.

All boats came to the aid of PCF-3, except one: John Kerry’s boat. Kerry fled.

Larry Thurlow piloted his boat straight toward the mine-damaged PCF-3 from which thick, black smoke billowed. He jumped aboard and personally led damage control operations that saved the boat and rescue operations that saved the lives of badly wounded men. Larry’s leadership was in the highest traditions of the naval service. His leadership allowed the other men and boats of the mission to exit the river safely. This "single act of meritorious service" -– the chief requirement of the Bronze Star -– should be honored, not ridiculed, by the Kerry campaign and its allies in the mainstream media.

To reiterate, only one enemy weapon was deployed that day -– the command-detonated submerged mine that disabled PCF-3. Larry Thurlow's citation contained references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire," because that was the language chosen by John Kerry who penned the "spot report" on the action that day. There was no "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" received that day. John Kerry’s report was fiction -– a hoax on the entire chain of command. Larry Thurlow's heroism and meritorious service, however, is real.

To me Larry is one of the heroes of our country. He is a man who served his country when called and who returned home to be a productive citizen. Larry and men like him are the strong backbone of our society. I am proud to have served with him.

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/article.php?story=20040819150311301

[46Tbird]

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.
I heard yesterday that the reason these documents contradict what this guy is saying (the 'vocal critic') is because the docs were the ones John Kerry himself wrote up to nominate himself for a medal.

I don't care anymore. :( I'm really sick of this being the centerpiece of both campaigns. I really don't give two shits about either candidate's fishy military history.

[FreightTrain]

Well while we are on the subject I'd like to throw my two cents in. Why is it that the Kerry campaign is doing everything in its power to silence the swift boat veterns for truth. They have gone as far as to threaten the tv stations that play the ads with lawsuits and to sue the publishing company of the book to stop the book from getting out. All this coming from a guy that wants to be president. Is it just me or does anyone else think that he is trying to inhibit free speech. After all kerry has the right to say his side of the story but no one has the right to challenge him. Its as if he thinks hes god and everyone should go along with what he says. I still can't beleive how any semi educated person could vote for him. I guess its anyone but bush. I think im going to make a sign to reads YOU SIR/MAMA ARE AN IDIOT and flash it to every car I see driving with a John Kerry bumper sticker. All Kerry supporters need to remember this I VOTED FOR IT, BEFORE I VOTED AGAINST IT. He is the king of the flip floper and I can't wait till the debates begin and Dubya rips into him about his voting history.


One more thing I think is funny is how Kerry is calling on bush to denounce and tell them to stop the ads. Bush can not do this and if he did he would be braking the law. The campaign finance reform cleary states any 527 organizations cannot have any contact with either party. Kerry is also a pussy. How many 527s does he have bashing bush. Lets see moveon.org, thesmokinggun, fat fuck moore just to name a few. All these campaigns have spent millions on advertising but Kerry claims the swift boat ads are
funded by big pocket republicans. Contary to Kerry they have raised 450k through their website and the donations came from 10k average americans just like you and me. Hes like that annoying little kid that crys foul everytime he doesn't get his way.

[5.0_CJ]

And the truth shall bite you in the ass.

[ben kenobi]

Connections and Contradictions (http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820swift_graph.gif)

[01WhiteCobra]

Well while we are on the subject I'd like to throw my two cents in. Why is it that the Kerry campaign is doing everything in its power to silence the swift boat veterns for truth.

Why is it that Bush supporters on this site spend more time bashing Kerry than building up Bush?

[jyro]

because his war record is ALL he has to run on, he's clearly done NOTHING for the country since he has been in office. It's all he's got. Kerry could discuss his voting record but it's not good and he won't go there. WHY again is he running for president, oh yeah, that 4 months in vietnam 34 years ago made him qualified to be president.

[5.0_CJ]

And the medals that piece of shit was so inclined to lie about to receive he threw on the lawn of the whitehouse, what a piece of shit, who would elect this guy? Everything about him is a lie, and were talking way more than any normal politician.

[Dacotua]

Its funny how if Kerry has people like Moore doing the ads, its ok, but when its against him, he cries foul.

If he wants the ads to stop, maybe he should look in the mirror and tell his "independant people" to stop bashing Bush?

[Pro Trash]

This is no longer about politics it is nothing more than a mud slinging contest you wuld see in the hallways of a high school. Kerry has skeletons and Bush has skeletons. Most of the people on here couldn't discuss politics without access to internet anyhow. I see quote after quote after quote, it is said that the swift boat vets should be heard and if this reasoning holds true then so should Kerry. The one thing that makes America the best country in the world is you can defend yourself, you are innocent until proven guilty. The sad thing is our election are no longer decided by the strong points of a candidate but the weaknesses of his rival.

[blownragtop]

...he's clearly done NOTHING for the country since he has been in office. Kerry could discuss his voting record but it's not good and he won't go there.

jyro, don’t be so harsh towards Pro Trash’s Comrade in Chief. He has a hell of record…

“(It was) during the height of the Cold War that he (Kerry)fought against the entire strategic modernization effort proposed by President Reagan, including the Peacekeeper, B-1 and B-2 bombers, the Trident submarine and D-5 missile.

Furthermore, in those dangerous times Kerry was a proponent of the nuclear freeze, which would have spelled permanent obsolescence for U.S. nuclear forces – at a time when the Evil Empire’s nuclear forces were becoming most formidable.

And it wasn’t some blind party loyalty thing. Democratic luminaries such as Sam Nunn, Al Gore, Norman Dicks, Sonny Montgomery and Les Aspin, to name a few, agreed with Ronald Reagan.

Kerry reached his anti-defense stride in those days when “The Gipper” was looking to build up American muscle and back the Soviet Union into the disastrous catch-up game that some suggest caused the collapse of the communist powerhouse.

For example, Kerry opposed the U.S. cruise missiles and Pershing missiles based in England, Germany, Holland and Italy – but it was just these tools of war and deterrence that helped bring on eventual victory in the Cold War.”

RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie On Sen. John Kerry’s Defense And Intelligence Record: “What he’s not proud of, apparently, is his votes in the United States Senate when it comes to national security policy: … He voted against the first Gulf War in 1991. … He offered an amendment to cut $1 1/2 billion from our intelligence funds at a time we were engaged and--and needed to be engaged in serious intelligence work relative to the war against terror, a $300 million cut the year before the USS Cole was attacked, a $300 million cut the year before the embassies in East Africa were attacked, a $300 million cut the year before the Khobar Towers were attacked by the terrorists, two years after the first attack on the World Trade Center.”


Sen. Kerry Voted Against B-1 Bomber. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against B-2 Stealth Bomber. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against F-14. (H. R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against F-15. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against F-16. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against AV-8B Harrier Vertical Takeoff And Landing Jet Fighters. (H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against AH-64 Apache Helicopters. (H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Patriot Missiles. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Aegis Air Defense Cruiser. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Trident Missile System For U.S. Submarines. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against M-1 Abrams Tanks. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Bradley Fighting Vehicle. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Sen. Kerry Voted Against Tomahawk Cruise Missile. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

In 1991 Kerry voted to cut defense spending by 2 percent. Only 21 other senators voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated.

In 1991, Kerry voted to cut over $3 billion from defense and shift the funds to social programs. Only 27 senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut.

In 1992, Kerry voted to cut $6 billion from defense. Republicans and Democrats alike successfully blocked this attempt to cut defense spending.

In 1993, Kerry voted against increased defense spending for a military pay raise.

In 1993, Kerry introduced a plan to cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews; reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force; terminate the Navy’s coastal mine-hunting ship program; force the retirement of 60,000 members of the armed forces in one year; and reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one. The plan was DOA.

In 1995, Kerry voted to freeze defense spending for seven years, cutting over $34 billion from defense. Only 27 other senators voted with Kerry.

In 1996, Kerry introduced a bill to cut Defense Department funding by $6.5 billion. Kerry’s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote.

In 1996, Kerry voted yes on a fiscal 1996 budget resolution – a defense freeze that would have frozen defense spending for the next seven years and transferred the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training. The resolution was rejected 28-71.


“There’s one thing you cannot take away from President Bush: He did establish beyond a shadow of a doubt the credibility of U.S. threats to use military force against our enemies. Our strength is a national asset. ...” John F. Kerry

[01WhiteCobra]

because his war record is ALL he has to run on, he's clearly done NOTHING for the country since he has been in office. It's all he's got. Kerry could discuss his voting record but it's not good and he won't go there. WHY again is he running for president, oh yeah, that 4 months in vietnam 34 years ago made him qualified to be president.

Pretty stupid reason jyro.

You are making Bush as a candidate sound like, "Hey vote for my guy, he can't be as bad as the other guy"

[jyro]

Pretty stupid reason jyro.

You are making Bush as a candidate sound like, "Hey vote for my guy, he can't be as bad as the other guy"

You once stated that even your 8 year old son knew who you supported. (paraphased)

Mostly you seem to do here is question and try to cause derision, again, what side are YOU on?
If you think it's a stupid reason for Kerry to be pissed off, think how mad he would be if he was commander and chief and something serious happened.

[ben kenobi]

You once stated that even your 8 year old son knew who you supported. (paraphased)

Mostly you seem to do here is question and try to cause derision, again, what side are YOU on?
If you think it's a stupid reason for Kerry to be pissed off, think how mad he would be if he was commander and chief and something serious happened.
Are we compairing what makes either candidate mad?

Four years ago, when confronted with an anti-Bush website, then candidate Bush said, "There ought to be limits to freedom."

How will they handle something serious indeed.

[MouseKiller]

Are we compairing what makes either candidate mad?

Four years ago, when confronted with an anti-Bush website, then candidate Bush said, "There ought to be limits to freedom."

How will they handle something serious indeed.

Freedom without limits is society without law. Are you saying Bush is mad for opposing anarchy? Or are you trying to imply that he is insane because he expressed some anger when someone slandered him in a public forum?

[Pro Trash]

because his war record is ALL he has to run on, he's clearly done NOTHING for the country since he has been in office. It's all he's got. Kerry could discuss his voting record but it's not good and he won't go there. WHY again is he running for president, oh yeah, that 4 months in vietnam 34 years ago made him qualified to be president.

Why does anyone run for President? Let's not be so naive as to tease ourselves and believe these gentlemen are doing it for the good of the nation. It matters not this election who wins, I don't feel either represent the America my family has lived in since the 1700's. These men have never struggled to make ends meet, worried about a roof over their head or retirement. If you want to see what Kerry's platform is go to his website, just as you can Bush's platform on his. To say all he has run on is his military record is absurd, no dem or rep has ran recently on a single issue that alone is a death sentence in politics. If you were to do such all the other party has to do is counter your one point and they win.

[Pro Trash]

Freedom without limits is society without law. Are you saying Bush is mad for opposing anarchy? Or are you trying to imply that he is insane because he expressed some anger when someone slandered him in a public forum?

Had Kerry said something similar would you not have accused him of wanting to establish communism or some other extreme left wing philosphy. You quote by the way speaks volumes of your ability to stereo type.

[01WhiteCobra]

You once stated that even your 8 year old son knew who you supported. (paraphased)

Mostly you seem to do here is question and try to cause derision, again, what side are YOU on?
If you think it's a stupid reason for Kerry to be pissed off, think how mad he would be if he was commander and chief and something serious happened.


Doesn't matter what side I'm on Jyro. BTW, I don't have an 8yr old son.

What I question is the utter bashing of one opponent. Look down the list in this forum, compare the number of threads on Kerry's misdeeds as compared to positive articles for Bush.

Build your candidate up, if Bush truly believes he is the "inclusion candidate", you, as his supporter are certainly not helping the situation.

Again, your constant, "Vote Bush! Kerry is a lunatic!" is getting old and tiresome. Do you even know one good reason to vote Bush? If so, start of thread about it.

There is a reason the Bush Campaign is distancing themselves from the recent bashing. Bashing works wonders in the early part of a campaign, during the latter months you need to focus your efforts on your candidate.

[01WhiteCobra]

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/381249|top|08-21-2004::12:46|reuters.html

OH NO! Maybe there is another side to the story?


An American journalist who commanded a boat alongside John Kerry in Vietnam broke a 35-year silence on Saturday and defended the Democratic presidential candidate against Republican critics of his military service.

"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story that appeared on the newspaper's Web site on Saturday.

"One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."

[MouseKiller]

Had Kerry said something similar would you not have accused him of wanting to establish communism or some other extreme left wing philosphy. You quote by the way speaks volumes of your ability to stereo type.

Stereo type, I doubt it. Maybe Profiling, where there are proven statistical trends that would allow you to make reasonable assumtions with good accuracy. As far as stereo typing goes, it looks like you have already stereo typed me as a "right wing nut job" based on my defense of Bush and my quotes from Sir Winston Churchill. Could it be possible that I just really dislike slander on the internet? Maybe I think the internet is an anarchistic haven that needs regulation. Wait, that would be profiling if you considered those options.

Now that you brought it up, John Kerry that is, lets talk about it. What scares me about him is that he has not made a stand for anything. He flip flops his speeches to whatever direction the polls tell him too, and then votes a liberal doctrine. Had Kerry made the statement Bush made I would not know what to think. The first question in my mind would be "Is this guy a little upset, or is this the reaction he was advised to have?"

[5.0_CJ]

So 2 vs. all the rest that were there white? Funny that the two that say his heroic acts happened share the same poltical views.

[talisman]

This thread is hilarious.

[01WhiteCobra]

So 2 vs. all the rest that were there white? Funny that the two that say his heroic acts happened share the same poltical views.

Sort of like the others that are certainly republican? You post makes no sense.

[ben kenobi]

Freedom without limits is society without law. Are you saying Bush is mad for opposing anarchy? Or are you trying to imply that he is insane because he expressed some anger when someone slandered him in a public forum?
First, no one was suggesting anarchy. But now that you mention it, a philosopher has suggested that freedom defined constitutes freedom denied.

However, George Bush, as President of a country that touts how open & free it is, and a country that begs to be the world standard bearer for such ideals, it seems ironic at best. However, when as President, if you sign legislation that infringes upon basic rights protected by the Bill of Rights, you have crossed a line. When Bush uttered that phrase, he was not speaking of 'anarchy', he was speaking of freedom of speech. Political satire has been allowed in this country from the beginning. Of course, the amount of freedom you wish to allow others may speak volumes about ideology. YMMV.

[ben kenobi]

This thread is hilarious.
Agreed!

[5.0_CJ]

Sort of like the others that are certainly republican? You post makes no sense.

Think of it this way, would you vote for someone you knew flat out lied? Does that make any more sense, at least, that makes it a little easier to understand why they might not vote for him.

[jyro]

because his war record is ALL he has to run on, he's clearly done NOTHING for the country since he has been in office. It's all he's got. Kerry could discuss his voting record but it's not good and he won't go there. WHY again is he running for president, oh yeah, that 4 months in vietnam 34 years ago made him qualified to be president.

Quote from pro trash
"To say all he has run on is his military record is absurd, no dem or rep has ran recently on a single issue that alone is a death sentence in politics. If you were to do such all the other party has to do is counter your one point and they win."


That's why President Bush will win: Bush didn't run on just one point like Kerry has. Kerry has made his Vietnam service the main point of his campaign. President Bush has made his actions to keep america safe and setting the country right after it was left with a recession when he entered office a couple of his centerpoints. All the attacks, from Halliburton to Enron to Saudi connections to allowing 911 to happen to twisting CIA info to lieing about uranium from Niger and many many more have been proven false. Never has a sitting president had to put up with so much BS while fighting a war. Sure President Bush has made some mistakes but the second guessers using hindsight sure will nail him on it. Democrats have been after President Bush ever since December of 2000. It has been unrelenting attacks, one after another and all have been proven false. Now, after almost 4 years of countless Democratic attacks, Kerry begs Bush to stop the attacks. Even if President Bush ask the Swift Boat Vets to stop, they wouldn't, they have the right to tell their story, they don't claim to be Republicans or Democrats, just 254 decorated vets that served with and around John F. Kerry in swift boats. Does Kerry tell Moore to pull his fiction movie, or George Sorros to stop the attacks on the president, no, Kerry has no control over them. All partys have free speech.

[talisman]

Think of it this way, would you vote for someone you knew flat out lied? Does that make any more sense, at least, that makes it a little easier to understand why they might not vote for him.

Yes, because most politicians have NEVER flat out lied. Read my lips. I did NOT have relations with that woman.

[01WhiteCobra]

Why is it that Kerry supporters on this site spend more time bashing Bush than building up Kerry?

Exactly!

Although, look at the thread counts. Pro Bush, Pro Kerry, Bash Bush, Bash Kerry. The Bash Kerry ones certainly out weigh.

[jyro]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/23/politics/campaign/23swift.html
Democrats close to Mr. Kerry said they feared that the very thing that had led the party to see him as its strongest challenger to Mr. Bush, his record as a decorated combat veteran in Vietnam, was now threatening to undermine his candidacy because of the actions of the criticism raised by some former Vietnam veterans.

[Pro Trash]

Stereo type, I doubt it. Maybe Profiling, where there are proven statistical trends that would allow you to make reasonable assumtions with good accuracy. As far as stereo typing goes, it looks like you have already stereo typed me as a "right wing nut job" based on my defense of Bush and my quotes from Sir Winston Churchill. Could it be possible that I just really dislike slander on the internet? Maybe I think the internet is an anarchistic haven that needs regulation. Wait, that would be profiling if you considered those options.

Now that you brought it up, John Kerry that is, lets talk about it. What scares me about him is that he has not made a stand for anything. He flip flops his speeches to whatever direction the polls tell him too, and then votes a liberal doctrine. Had Kerry made the statement Bush made I would not know what to think. The first question in my mind would be "Is this guy a little upset, or is this the reaction he was advised to have?"

Well when your statement generalizes that all persons after a certain age whom do not tend to agree with your particular style of politics I would tend to believe that is a stereo type. I am not an ignorant nor stupid man; however, I am a democrat, this in itself does not make you or I better than one another just different. I have fought for this country, believe sometimes war is inevitable, like some things about Bush. I think it is odd that the people on here whom are Republicans can not even seem to articulate that some of the things Bush has done are wrong. They are instead content to slander Kerry and then criticize others opinions if they differ in the least. Kerry does have issues he stands fast on, let's take abortion. His church pressured him on this subject. So instead of flopping he stood fast in the face of criticism from the very religious order he loves. It takes a man to stand alone with his opinions and be constantly ridiculed and belittled yet still maintain them.

[Paladin]

...Kerry does have issues he stands fast on, let's take abortion. His church pressured him on this subject. So instead of flopping he stood fast in the face of criticism from the very religious order he loves. It takes a man to stand alone with his opinions and be constantly ridiculed and belittled yet still maintain them.

I am not trying to nitpick your words, but isn't a little strange that Kerry has chosen abortion as one of his issues to stand tall on? I mean his religion is strictly against abortion and most opinion polls show about 70% or so of all Americans are against abortion, so why would he go against his religion and the majority of his potential constituents?

Pessimists might say that he has "sold his soul" to get elected by a party that supports abortion.

[shrp88lx's]

It takes a man to stand alone with his opinions and be constantly ridiculed and belittled yet still maintain them.
Dam for an instant I was sure you were talking about Bush!!!:LOL The I saw it was Travis that posted it!!!!

[jyro]

. Kerry does have issues he stands fast on, let's take abortion. .

1972 kerry said, "I would say also that it's a tragic day in the lives of everybody when abortion is looked on as an alternative to having a child. I think that's wrong. It should be the very last thing if it has to be anything, and I say that not just because I'm opposed to abortion but because I think that's common sense."

July, 2004 Kerry said,"an unborn child is a "form of life.''

While campaigning in a heavily Catholic part of Iowa in early July, Kerry told the Dubuque Telegraph Herald, "I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception."

Kerrys abortion voting record: "Kerry voted six times against the partial-birth abortion ban; was a co-sponsor of the Freedom of Choice Act, which would have prohibited states from placing limits on abortion; opposes parental involvement in minors' abortion decisions; and has vowed to "only appoint Supreme Court justices who will uphold a woman's right to choose.'"

[Pro Trash]

I am not trying to nitpick your words, but isn't a little strange that Kerry has chosen abortion as one of his issues to stand tall on? I mean his religion is strictly against abortion and most opinion polls show about 70% or so of all Americans are against abortion, so why would he go against his religion and the majority of his potential constituents?

Pessimists might say that he has "sold his soul" to get elected by a party that supports abortion.

I am not sure of his reasoning on he could be for that matter. I know I don't care for abortion but I don't feel it is the governments place to regulate that particular issue either.

[Paladin]

I am not sure of his reasoning on he could be for that matter. I know I don't care for abortion but I don't feel it is the governments place to regulate that particular issue either.

You didn't address my point about the contradiction that is John Kerry on that issue. There are many others, but that one is an obvious one.

I was asking how you can vote for him if he has no commitment to what he believes in.

[Pro Trash]

You didn't address my point about the contradiction that is John Kerry on that issue. There are many others, but that one is an obvious one.

I was asking how you can vote for him if he has no commitment to what he believes in.

That answer is simple, the comment he made was 32 years ago he obviously has changed his opinions. In the same instance Bush has changed since then too. He was an alcoholic now he isn't. Are you saying that people can't change or shouldn't?

[FlatDog324]

What I question is the utter bashing of one opponent. Look down the list in this forum, compare the number of threads on Kerry's misdeeds as compared to positive articles for Bush.



Again, your constant, "Vote Bush! Kerry is a lunatic!" is getting old and tiresome. Do you even know one good reason to vote Bush? If so, start of thread about it.

There is a reason the Bush Campaign is distancing themselves from the recent bashing. Bashing works wonders in the early part of a campaign, during the latter months you need to focus your efforts on your candidate.


OK. There is NO bashing of Kerry. These posts are simply to inform people of the coments, actions, votes, and suspicious history of a man who is running for PRESIDENT. Not everyone watches the news, or visits political websites, this is a good way to let the people of this great country know just what to expect if Kerry is elected (which i pray NEVER happens) If you ask me the S.O.B. aint worth a shit, and i seriously have no idea how he was chosen as the democratic canidate. I personally feel that even Hillary would have had a better chance, possibly Al Sharpton. Now as for the "one good reason to vote for bush" thing ok lets say that hypotethicly Kerry is elected what do you think he is going to do as soon as he's president. I got a clue, pull out all of the troops from iraq, some say that is a good thing, but then guess what he will do, turn around and cut the deffense budget and freeze it for 7 years just like he and those other 27 crackhead mother fuckers have been trying to do since 91!!! OK now we have drastically downsized our military and then put a freeze on our defense budget just a short time after we started a WAR on terror. And what does Kerry want to do with this money from the cut in defense which seems to me to float around 30 BILLION dollars, use it to "help those struggling lower income families" I got a newsflash for you if he cuts our defense budget and then turnsaround and pulls out all of our troops we will all become "lower income". I dont know about yall but I know those crazzy ass rag head slurpy serving sand crickets are going to bomb the living hell out of us if we pull out all of our troops and cut the defense budget. I also know that Kerry isnt going to fight them he is simply going to bend over and take it in the ass like the pussy he is. Come on one mine goes off and he runs for the hills, while EVERYONE else is trying to do the right thing and help the troops who were injured by the mine. Kerry voted against every military bill including a pay raise for our troops, come on our armed forces risk there lives day in and day out for us to live in this great country of ours. I know i sure as hell dont want the socialist bastard in office. Everyone says that Bush lies i would love for someone to mention one lie that Bush has made. Hell there is video footage of Kerry constantly contradicing himself "I voted for it, Before i voted against it" what the fuck is that?? As for the swift boat vets i think they have every right to be heard, these men fought side by side to defend our country, they stood and fought for the right to say what they want to say. The only reason that these Kerry supporters are mad is because the truth hurts, serriously 200 men are saying that Kerry lied about being under fire, as well as intentionally injured himself because of the 3 purple hearts and you go home rule, among other coments he has made about his war stories, which are just that stories, which are completely made up. i could go on and on forever but i think that i have vented enough for now. I know i am going to get flammed by all the Kerry supporters, but i could careless. These are my opinions and in this country i am allowed to voice them. If you like them fine if not tough shit.

[black01gt]

Everyone says that Bush lies i would love for someone to mention one lie that Bush has made. These are my opinions and in this country i am allowed to voice them. If you like them fine if not tough shit.
My favorite lie is, "Osama Bin Laden....Dead or Alive!!!"

I couldn't agree more with your final sentence tho!

[shrp88lx's]

My favorite lie is, "Osama Bin Laden....Dead or Alive!!!"

I couldn't agree more with your final sentence tho! How is that a lie? We(the US) will take him dead or alive???

[01WhiteCobra]

OK. There is NO bashing of Kerry.

If you ask me the S.O.B. aint worth a shit, and i seriously have no idea how he was chosen as the democratic canidate.

You can't even write a post about not bashing Kerry, without bashing him.

[black01gt]

How is that a lie? We(the US) will take him dead or alive???
When?

[46Tbird]

November 1.

[AL P]

November 1.

I wonder why Black01gt didn't respond to that other thread.

[shrp88lx's]

When?
Doesnt matter, now if GW had said we will have him by XXXX then yes it would have been a lie, but he didnt. so NO lie there. NEXT!!!

[black01gt]

Doesnt matter, now if GW had said we will have him by XXXX then yes it would have been a lie, but he didnt. so NO lie there. NEXT!!!
Doesn't matter?!? What a Bush statement! "Doesn't matter that we got him after he leveled the Sears Tower, we got him, Mission Accomplished, now watch this putt!"

November 1.
You're a funny guy 46Tbird.
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me tho.

[Paladin]

That answer is simple, the comment he made was 32 years ago he obviously has changed his opinions. In the same instance Bush has changed since then too. He was an alcoholic now he isn't. Are you saying that people can't change or shouldn't?

Please explain how Kerry's position on abortion today is a comment he made 32 years ago.

I purposely chose a topic that was pertinent as of today.

I would think the alcoholoism would be pertinent also if Bush was still drinking today.

Come on now, let's stay on topic and stop drifitng.

[Pro Trash]

OK. There is NO bashing of Kerry. These posts are simply to inform people of the coments, actions, votes, and suspicious history of a man who is running for PRESIDENT. Not everyone watches the news, or visits political websites, this is a good way to let the people of this great country know just what to expect if Kerry is elected (which i pray NEVER happens) If you ask me the S.O.B. aint worth a shit, and i seriously have no idea how he was chosen as the democratic canidate. I personally feel that even Hillary would have had a better chance, possibly Al Sharpton. Now as for the "one good reason to vote for bush" thing ok lets say that hypotethicly Kerry is elected what do you think he is going to do as soon as he's president. I got a clue, pull out all of the troops from iraq, some say that is a good thing, but then guess what he will do, turn around and cut the deffense budget and freeze it for 7 years just like he and those other 27 crackhead mother fuckers have been trying to do since 91!!! OK now we have drastically downsized our military and then put a freeze on our defense budget just a short time after we started a WAR on terror. And what does Kerry want to do with this money from the cut in defense which seems to me to float around 30 BILLION dollars, use it to "help those struggling lower income families" I got a newsflash for you if he cuts our defense budget and then turnsaround and pulls out all of our troops we will all become "lower income". I dont know about yall but I know those crazzy ass rag head slurpy serving sand crickets are going to bomb the living hell out of us if we pull out all of our troops and cut the defense budget. I also know that Kerry isnt going to fight them he is simply going to bend over and take it in the ass like the pussy he is. Come on one mine goes off and he runs for the hills, while EVERYONE else is trying to do the right thing and help the troops who were injured by the mine. Kerry voted against every military bill including a pay raise for our troops, come on our armed forces risk there lives day in and day out for us to live in this great country of ours. I know i sure as hell dont want the socialist bastard in office. Everyone says that Bush lies i would love for someone to mention one lie that Bush has made. Hell there is video footage of Kerry constantly contradicing himself "I voted for it, Before i voted against it" what the fuck is that?? As for the swift boat vets i think they have every right to be heard, these men fought side by side to defend our country, they stood and fought for the right to say what they want to say. The only reason that these Kerry supporters are mad is because the truth hurts, serriously 200 men are saying that Kerry lied about being under fire, as well as intentionally injured himself because of the 3 purple hearts and you go home rule, among other coments he has made about his war stories, which are just that stories, which are completely made up. i could go on and on forever but i think that i have vented enough for now. I know i am going to get flammed by all the Kerry supporters, but i could careless. These are my opinions and in this country i am allowed to voice them. If you like them fine if not tough shit.

I'm sorry but I lost you some between this is not a bashing, slurpie servers, socialists and lies. If you are going to make a statement at least be honest of your intent when you begin it. You have shown that you have the makings of a racist and mud slinger in just few short words.

[Pro Trash]

Please explain how Kerry's position on abortion today is a comment he made 32 years ago.

I purposely chose a topic that was pertinent as of today.

I would think the alcoholoism would be pertinent also if Bush was still drinking today.

Come on now, let's stay on topic and stop drifitng.

It isn't hard to comprehend, you quoted him from 1972. I simply stated that he obviously has changed his opinions since then. I was making an example to show how people evolve. Take for instance Ronald Reagan was once a democrat he then became a Republican, people change why should this draw such fire. If Bush has taken a different stance from things he felt during his youth is this a horrible thing. As Americans we have the right to believe what we want and alter those beleives when needed.

[Paladin]

It isn't hard to comprehend, you quoted him from 1972. I simply stated that he obviously has changed his opinions since then. I was making an example to show how people evolve. Take for instance Ronald Reagan was once a democrat he then became a Republican, people change why should this draw such fire. If Bush has taken a different stance from things he felt during his youth is this a horrible thing. As Americans we have the right to believe what we want and alter those beleives when needed.

Well you switched the topic. My question is how can Kerry say he is against abortion, be a Catholic (a religion that is against abortion), and say he is for abortion when it comes to his political agenda. This with a majority of Americans in every poll I have ever seen against abortion.

I say it is another example of Kerry saying and doing anything to get elected at all moral and ethical costs. A pretty scary proposition for a man asking for my vote if you ask me.

[Pro Trash]

Well you switched the topic. My question is how can Kerry say he is against abortion, be a Catholic (a religion that is against abortion), and say he is for abortion when it comes to his political agenda. This with a majority of Americans in every poll I have ever seen against abortion.

I say it is another example of Kerry saying and doing anything to get elected at all moral and ethical costs. A pretty scary proposition for a man asking for my vote if you ask me.

Your earlier quote went as such:

"I am not trying to nitpick your words, but isn't a little strange that Kerry has chosen abortion as one of his issues to stand tall on? I mean his religion is strictly against abortion and most opinion polls show about 70% or so of all Americans are against abortion, so why would he go against his religion and the majority of his potential constituents?

Pessimists might say that he has "sold his soul" to get elected by a party that supports abortion."

Now let's look at the average person; however, first let's ask ourselves this. If you are for abortion but raised Catholic does that make you less catholic, if you are gay, go to church and believe beyond the shadow of a doubt in the holy trinity are you less Christian. How many people who attend church give 10% of their salary to the church for tithes every month are they less Baptist? So now Kerry believes differently from his church does this make him horrible. Also the fact the Catholic Church admonishes him on a national level for abortion but essentially excuses the dozens of church constituents that have abused children over the years doesn't increase their credibility in my opinion. Also because he doesn't hold the exact beliefs of his church does not mean he is any less of a catholic or doing it for election purposes only.

[Paladin]

Your earlier quote went as such:

"I am not trying to nitpick your words, but isn't a little strange that Kerry has chosen abortion as one of his issues to stand tall on? I mean his religion is strictly against abortion and most opinion polls show about 70% or so of all Americans are against abortion, so why would he go against his religion and the majority of his potential constituents?

Pessimists might say that he has "sold his soul" to get elected by a party that supports abortion."

Now let's look at the average person; however, first let's ask ourselves this. If you are for abortion but raised Catholic does that make you less catholic, if you are gay, go to church and believe beyond the shadow of a doubt in the holy trinity are you less Christian. How many people who attend church give 10% of their salary to the church for tithes every month are they less Baptist? So now Kerry believes differently from his church does this make him horrible. Also the fact the Catholic Church admonishes him on a national level for abortion but essentially excuses the dozens of church constituents that have abused children over the years doesn't increase their credibility in my opinion. Also because he doesn't hold the exact beliefs of his church does not mean he is any less of a catholic or doing it for election purposes only.

OK, you apparently don't like the question because you keep avoiding it or just answer parts.

1. Kerry has said as recently as last week that he is personally against abortion.

2. His religion is against it.

3. Most Americans are against it.

Why is he for it when he puts on his politician hat?

I will say this isn't easy for a supporter of Kerry to answer since the only truthful answers are hard to say or look at.

[jyro]

he would have control of the dialogue and not let the swiftboat guys lead him around with their dog leash controling his direction. Kerry can talk about ANYTHING he wants to, he has decided that the switboat charges are the most important thing he can talk about, not his plan for America or how he will help the economy better than President Bush. It's funny to see him do the dance on command just like the organ grinders monkey he is.
I'm waiting for the debates, Bush will beat him badly, Kerry can't control his temper.

[Pro Trash]

OK, you apparently don't like the question because you keep avoiding it or just answer parts.

1. Kerry has said as recently as last week that he is personally against abortion.

2. His religion is against it.

3. Most Americans are against it.

Why is he for it when he puts on his politician hat?

I will say this isn't easy for a supporter of Kerry to answer since the only truthful answers are hard to say or look at.

I don't agree with abortion either but I also feel it is not the governments place to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body. So point blank Kerry feels as though he does not care for abortion but at the same time doesn't feel the government should regulate it.

[FlatDog324]

I'm sorry but I lost you some between this is not a bashing, slurpie servers, socialists and lies. If you are going to make a statement at least be honest of your intent when you begin it. You have shown that you have the makings of a racist and mud slinger in just few short words.



OK what i was saying is that noone else in this thread had bashed Kerry, I wasnt trying to bash him i simply stated how i felt about him and it came across as bashing. Now about the slurpie servers im sorry i find it hard to not feel hatred towards a group of people who attacked our country. Sorry i dont forgive and forget. Now about the lies, i wasnt calling Kerry a liar all i was saying is that everyone says Bush lies, i wanted someone to explain to me when he lied. Now about me being racist WHATS UP WITH THAT?? Im not racist i simply cant forget about the attacks on our country, i HAD no problems with the Iraqis or Afganis UNTILL they attacked us. Anything else ??

[shrp88lx's]

Doesn't matter?!? What a Bush statement! "Doesn't matter that we got him after he leveled the Sears Tower, we got him, Mission Accomplished, now watch this putt!"

November 1.
You're a funny guy 46Tbird.
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me tho. No dipshit it doesnt matter cause you said he lied bout it when it wasnt any kinda lie. We will get him dead or alive. Am I happy we dont have him yet..NO I want his ass dead. But that still doesnt mnake it a lie.

[Paladin]

I don't agree with abortion either but I also feel it is not the governments place to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body. So point blank Kerry feels as though he does not care for abortion but at the same time doesn't feel the government should regulate it.

I understand that point although I totally disagree with it.

[The Punisher]

I understand that point although I totally disagree with it.
So Protrash thinks the government shouldnt regulate murder? :confused:

[Paladin]

So Protrash thinks the government shouldnt regulate murder? :confused:

I wasn't going to go any deeper on the issue, but that is where I would have gone for sure.