Anybody know why in the hell we still have troops in IRAQ??

[Zarathustra]

Seems like the U.S. military presence is absolutely unnecessary. This is bullshit. I can't seem to figure out why...:confused:

[A+]

shit, when you find out....let me know

[Jarhead88]

Because Bush is the Devil!!!

[Zarathustra]

Originally posted by Jarhead88
Because Bush is the Devil!!!

No shit... I can't wait 'til november.

[fastfordfan1]

Ok, you liberals, what would you do??? Dont say, "we should have never been there!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH." What would you do RIGHT NOW???? And why????

[Fobra]

:D

[fastfordfan1]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
:D

NICE!!!!

[Fobra]

thx:cool:

[turbos66coupe]

probably because they have those fucking towels wraped around thier heads so tight they can't think clearly enough to organize a new government.

If the pussies would stop screaming that kill the white man bullshit and get on with thier lives they might have a chance at a decent life.

We could do'em like the Native Americans and jack all thier shit -
Somebody needs to teach those motherfuckers some American History and maybe they'll shut the fuck up!

[Jarhead88]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
Ok, you liberals, what would you do??? Dont say, "we should have never been there!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH." What would you do RIGHT NOW???? And why????

Have you ever been in a foreign country fighting for motherfuckers that don't even want you there, well I have and it sucks, I don't agree with our boys and girls being over there but I understand that they have orders to follow.

[fastfordfan1]

Only about 2% of the population dont want us there, and we are handling them. So, 98% of the population either is neutral or in favor of us being there and liberating them for the evil dictator.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
Only about 2% of the population dont want us there, and we are handling them. So, 98% of the population either is neutral or in favor of us being there and liberating them for the evil dictator.

exactly, the problem is most of the elite media usually reports the people who dont want us there.

[Jarhead88]

Are you sure about that 2%?

[fastfordfan1]

Pretty sure

[SMOKEY]

I by no means am an expert, but do have a opinion. I feel that we are still there for four major reasons. First, to help the nation of Iraq establish a new democratic government, second to stop Hussien (sp) followers from stirring up shit in the new nation, to HOPEFULLY find Weapons of Mass Destruction, and finally for the Oil. My reasons for this is one, it helps democratic nations like the US to settle issues in the United Nations (think of it like a Republican trying to get more people to become Republicans to back his ideas and president in this nation), secondly the Hussein followers are going around killing innocent people and this needs to stop, thirdly Bush really needs for the troops to find weapons of mass destruction so he doesn't look so bad, and finally even though the oil hasn't really been mentioned everyone knows that the world is running out of oil and so the US is trying to become really friendly with all the nations that have the oil.

Sorry about the long post, but it does make sense.

:D

[Jarhead88]

Originally posted by SMOKEY
I by no means am an expert, but do have a opinion. I feel that we are still there for four major reasons. First, to help the nation of Iraq establish a new democratic government, second to stop Hussien (sp) followers from stirring up shit in the new nation, to HOPEFULLY find Weapons of Mass Destruction, and finally for the Oil. My reasons for this is one, it helps democratic nations like the US to settle issues in the United Nations (think of it like a Republican trying to get more people to become Republicans to back his ideas and president in this nation), secondly the Hussein followers are going around killing innocent people and this needs to stop, thirdly Bush really needs for the troops to find weapons of mass destruction so he doesn't look so bad, and finally even though the oil hasn't really been mentioned everyone knows that the world is running out of oil and so the US is trying to become really friendly with all the nations that have the oil.

Sorry about the long post, but it does make sense.

:D

I agree with you to an extent.

[SMOKEY]

Anyone one else, this is a interesting topic. What about the 911 cover-ups

[fastfordfan1]

And what 9-11 cover ups would you be referring to???

[Fobra]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
And what 9-11 cover ups would you be referring to???

i was thinking the samething lol:confused:

[Paladin]

Shouldn't the real question be "Does anyone except for the most liberal of Democrats NOT understand why we are in Iraq?"

The war on terror is not just against Al Quaeda, the Taliban, or any one specific terrooist group. It is against all terror.

I pose this question to those who think Bush is doing this war for any other reason than our safety. What would you say if there is another major terror attack on American soil or against American interests abroad and Bush had not done everything possible to stop it?

I know the answer if you liberals are honest, you would be screaming at the top of your lungs for him to resign.

Hell, Clinton had the 1993 attack against the WTC, a major bombing of an embassy, and the attack against the USS Cole. Yeah, I can see where a passive stance against global terrorism like his would be the route to go.

[OC]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
Pretty sure

I would check that 2% statistic you gave. While it is true most Americans do/did support the intial war against Iraq, the number who support the troops still being over there has swung dramatically against keeping them there. I believe it is like 50+% against having them there. Happened to read it on one of the Yahoo new stories on Wednesday.

[fastfordfan1]

Originally posted by reef93gt
I would check that 2% statistic you gave. While it is true most Americans do/did support the intial war against Iraq, the number who support the troops still being over there has swung dramatically against keeping them there. I believe it is like 50+% against having them there. Happened to read it on one of the Yahoo new stories on Wednesday.

You better read what I originally wrote again

[OC]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
You better read what I originally wrote again

Got it, thought you were referring to the American's, didn't mean to misquote you.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by SMOKEY
thirdly Bush really needs for the troops to find weapons of mass destruction so he doesn't look so bad, and finally even though the oil hasn't really been mentioned everyone knows that the world is running out of oil and so the US is trying to become really friendly with all the nations that have the oil.

Sorry about the long post, but it does make sense.

:D
And maybe while we're at it, we can turn em all into Southern Baptist!
You're right, "Bush really (really!!!) needs em to find WMD" and quick! There is still time for him to "plant" some.
Or here's a good plan. He could FINALLY go get Bin Laden around September or October. Yea-that should do it. ;)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch


I pose this question to those who think Bush is doing this war for any other reason than our safety. What would you say if there is another major terror attack on American soil or against American interests abroad and Bush had not done everything possible to stop it?


And I pose this question. If you didn't have the moniker "liberal" to pin on anyone that opposed your opinion, would you be just shit out of luck as a "hardliner"?
With Bush's head entirely up Irags ass, when they were waaay down the list of direct threats to the US, I absolutely question his motives for "conflict" and his concern for the safety of the citizens of THIS country. If he is doing such a great job, why are we fighting Iraq while trying to keep an eye on Al Queda. I will agree that NOW, Irag might be a good place to look for them, along with every window and door of the US or friends. But lets focus on and sacrifice for "liberating" people that can't be liberated, and wouldn't appreciate it if we could! I hate to use this reason because I don't believe this is Bush's true motive. He FLIP FLOPS so much between terrorist threat, WMD, liberating the Irag ppl,ect. ect.
Maybe:Oil,re-election,oil, cronyism, oil, Cheney, re-election.
If he did his damn job, re-election would take care of it's self!

[Paladin]

Originally posted by black01gt
And I pose this question. If you didn't have the moniker "liberal" to pin on anyone that opposed your opinion, would you be just shit out of luck as a "hardliner"?
With Bush's head entirely up Irags ass, when they were waaay down the list of direct threats to the US, I absolutely question his motives for "conflict" and his concern for the safety of the citizens of THIS country. If he is doing such a great job, why are we fighting Iraq while trying to keep an eye on Al Queda. I will agree that NOW, Irag might be a good place to look for them, along with every window and door of the US or friends. But lets focus on and sacrifice for "liberating" people that can't be liberated, and wouldn't appreciate it if we could! I hate to use this reason because I don't believe this is Bush's true motive. He FLIP FLOPS so much between terrorist threat, WMD, liberating the Irag ppl,ect. ect.
Maybe:Oil,re-election,oil, cronyism, oil, Cheney, re-election.
If he did his damn job, re-election would take care of it's self!

Feel free to answer my question first, then I will try and decipher your question.

Here is another question if you ever decide to try and answer the first one, why do you and other persons who speak liberal speak get so offended by being called to the mat for it?

[OC]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Shouldn't the real question be "Does anyone except for the most liberal of Democrats NOT understand why we are in Iraq?"

The war on terror is not just against Al Quaeda, the Taliban, or any one specific terrooist group. It is against all terror.

I pose this question to those who think Bush is doing this war for any other reason than our safety. What would you say if there is another major terror attack on American soil or against American interests abroad and Bush had not done everything possible to stop it?

I know the answer if you liberals are honest, you would be screaming at the top of your lungs for him to resign.

Hell, Clinton had the 1993 attack against the WTC, a major bombing of an embassy, and the attack against the USS Cole. Yeah, I can see where a passive stance against global terrorism like his would be the route to go.

I understand why we went in there, and I actually believe that Clinton's passive stance caused 9/11. However my question is if we already went in there and got Saddam, and won the war, why are we still there. Is it our responsibility to rebuild their country?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Feel free to answer my question first, then I will try and decipher your question.

Here is another question if you ever decide to try and answer the first one, why do you and other persons who speak liberal speak get so offended by being called to the mat for it?
I did answer your question, but lets try this:
1)I DO think there is going to be another attack on American soil, like there has already been recently on foriegn soil by Al Queda. NOT IRAQ; AL QUEDA, do you get it?!? I already, absolutely DO NOT think that Bush has done everything possible to protect Americans, and has in fact diverted an extremely focused, patriotic and united American society (remember all the Flags & emails with pics of Bin Laden with a missle up his ass) to chase his own agenda in Iraq. I don't need to wait for another attack, to ask for his resignation. I think he and Ken Lay should be cell mates now.
2) I don't get offended, but actually am amused by the lack of vocabulary used by "conservatives". I also don't consider my common sense views as liberal. Just because I don't think gov't spending LIBERALLY is a good idea, doesn't make me consider myself a "liberal". Just because I think we should CONSERVE the economy and security of this nation (for real, not with smoke and mirrors) doesn't make me consider myself a "conservative". But if you need to, call me what makes it simple for you.

[Zarathustra]

I think he just wanted to call somebody a liberal.

[stung]

What's the title of this forum?

Some of you forget there are more terrorists other than AlQuida. This war is against terrorism not just AlQuida. Iraq was supporting terrorists not only financially but by giving them safe-haven, logistical support and technology. The latter of those mentioned is where the urgancy comes into play.

[blownragtop]

A little reading material for the naysayers…


Chicago, L.A. towers were next targets

By Paul Martin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

LONDON — Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, al Qaeda's purported operations chief, has told U.S. interrogators that the group had been planning attacks on the Library Tower in Los Angeles and the Sears Tower in Chicago on the heels of the September 11, 2001, terror strikes.

Those plans were aborted mainly because of the decisive U.S. response to the New York and Washington attacks, which disrupted the terrorist organization's plans so thoroughly that it could not proceed, according to transcripts of his conversations with interrogators….

"The original plan was for a two-pronged attack with five targets on the East Coast of America and five on the West Coast," he told interrogators, according to the transcript…

But the terrorists seem to have been surprised by the strength of the American reaction to the September 11 attacks.

"Afterwards, we never got time to catch our breath, we were immediately on the run," Mohammed is quoted as saying.

Al Qaeda's communications network was severely disrupted, he said. Operatives could no longer use satellite phones and had to rely on couriers, although they continued to use Internet chat rooms.

"Before September 11, we could dispatch operatives with the expectation of follow-up contact, but after October 7 [when U.S. bombing started in Afghanistan], that changed 180 degrees. There was no longer a war room ... and operatives had more autonomy."

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040330-120655-9785r.htm

What has gone right in Iraq

Jeff Jacoby
April 2, 2004

With all the news coming out of the Middle East, here is a detail you might have missed: A few weeks ago, the United Nations shut down the Ashrafi refugee camp in southwestern Iran. For years Ashrafi had been the largest facility in the world housing displaced Iraqis, tens of thousands of whom had been driven from their homes by Saddam Hussein's brutality. But with Saddam behind bars and his Baathist dictatorship crushed, Iraqi exiles have been flocking home. By mid-February the camp had literally emptied out. Now, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees reports, "nothing remains of Ashrafi but rubble and a few stones."

Refugees surging to Iraq? That isn't what the antiwar legions told us would happen if George Bush made good on his vow to end Saddam's reign of terror. Over and over they warned that a US invasion would trigger a humanitarian cataclysm, including a flood of refugees from Iraq. This, for instance, was Martin Sheen at a Los Angeles news conference a month before the war began:

"As the dogs of war slouch towards Baghdad, we need to be reminded that as many as 2 million refugees could become a reality, as well as half a million fatalities."

Writing on the left-wing website AlterNet last March, senior editor Tai Moses dreaded the coming of a war that "could create more than a million refugees in Iraq and neighboring countries." The BBC, citing a "confidential" UN document, predicted that up to 500,000 Iraqis would be seriously injured during the first phase of an American attack, while 1 million would flee the country and 2 million more would be internally displaced -- all compounded by an "outbreak of diseases in epidemic if not pandemic proportions." The Organization of the Islamic Conference foresaw the "displacement of hundreds of thousands of refugees," plus "total destruction and a humanitarian tragedy whose scale cannot be predicted."

Wrong, every one of them, along with all the other doomsayers, Bush-haters, "Not In Our Name" fanatics, and sundry "peace" activists who flooded the streets and the airwaves to warn of onrushing disaster. How many have had the integrity to admit that their visions of catastrophe were wildly off the mark? Or that if they had gotten their way, the foremost killer of Muslims alive today -- Saddam -- would still be torturing children before their parents' eyes? Instead they chant, "Bush lied, people died," and seize on every setback in Iraq as proof that they were right all along.

But they were wrong all along. Operation Iraqi Freedom stands as one of the great humanitarian achievements of modern times. For all the Bush administration's mistakes and miscalculations, for all the monumental challenges that remain, Iraq is vastly better off today than it was before the war.

And the Iraqi people know it.

In a nationwide survey conducted for ABC and the BBC by Britain's Oxford Research International, 56 percent of Iraqis say their lives are better now than before the war; only 19 percent say things are worse. Asked how things are going for them personally, seven out of 10 Iraqis say that life is good. Because of "Bush's war," Iraqis today brim with optimism. Fully 71 percent expect their lives to be even better a year from now; less than 7 percent say they'll be worse. Iraq today may just be the most upbeat, forward-looking country in the Arab world.

With hard work and a little luck, it may soon be the best governed as well. The interim constitution approved by the Iraqi Governing Council last month protects freedom of speech and assembly, guarantees the right to privacy, ensures equality for women, and subordinates the military to civilian control. It is, hands down, the most progressive constitution in the Arab Middle East.

Nearly a year after the fall of Baghdad, Iraq is hugely improved. Unemployment has been cut in half. Wages are climbing. The devastated southern marshlands are being restored. More Iraqis own cars and telephones than before Saddam was ousted. Some 2,500 schools have been rehabbed by the US-headed coalition. Spending on health care has soared thirtyfold, and millions of Iraqi children have been vaccinated. Iraqi athletes, no longer terrorized by Saddam's sadistic son Uday, are training for the summer Olympics in Greece.

Above all, Iraq's people are free. The horror and cruelty of the Saddam era are gone forever. In the 12 months since the American and British troops arrived, not one body has been added to a secret mass grave. Not one woman has been raped on government orders. Not one dissident has been mauled to death by trained killer dogs. Not one Kurdish village has been gassed.

Is everything rosy? Of course not. Could the transition to constitutional democracy still fail? Yes. Do innocent victims continue to die in horrific terror attacks, or at the hands of lynch mobs like the one that dragged the corpses of four Americans through the streets of Falluja this week? They do.

But none of that changes the bottom line: In the ancient land that America liberated, life is more beautiful and hopeful than it has been in many decades. Bush's foes may loudly deny it, but the refugees streaming homeward know better.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jeffjacoby/jj20040402.shtml

[SMOKEY]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
And what 9-11 cover ups would you be referring to???

The fact that members of the 911 commision worked with Bin Laden's bother, or the fact that the president knew about the attacks and continued to stay at a elementery school reading to the children?

PS.....I am a firm supporter of Bush, so don't try and bash me for being a non Bush supporter.

[sonic03gt]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Is it our responsibility to rebuild their country?

The U.S. and Iraq weren't exactly on great terms BEFORE we attacked their country. Do you think we'd be on better terms if we just let them rebuild it themselves?

That would be asking for more terrorist strikes, IMO.

[SMOKEY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 90 Notch
[B]Shouldn't the real question be "Does anyone except for the most liberal of Democrats NOT understand why we are in Iraq?"


I can answer that. Seeing that I am a conservative Republican, I can understand why people don't feel that we should be in Iraq. I support Bush and don't question why we are there, but why doesn't he seem to be conserned about countries like Korea. This is a country that has confirmed Nuclear plants, Nuclear weapons testing, and possible Nuclear missle's that could reach the western United States. To me this seems like a much greater threat the the US than Iraq. However, Bush doesn't want to place as much empasis on this country for a few reasons. First, the US already been there done that in the 50's, scondly, Korea doesn't have the Oil, and Finally Bush Sr. didn't fuck up a war there that Bush Jr. needs to finish. Yes I did just say that, but I feel that back in the early 90's that Bush Sr. should have marched all the way to Bahdad and finsihed what Bush Jr had to do 10 years later. The WMD were more prevelent then, and Hussein was a much greater threat to the world in the early 90's.

You can also beleive that the US Special Forces are still in Afganistan looking for Bin Laden. The problem in this country is that Bin Laden isn't the head of the country, so the US can't declare war on the country. The US has to sneek around and try and find these people (like a bounty hunter does) instead of declaring woar and commiting a large amount of troops to search for Bin Laden. Think of all the people searching for Hussein and how long it took to find him. We have a very limited force in Afganistan compared to the troops in Iraq. Plus Bin Laden has the freedom to move all over the world with a lot of cash and supporters to hide him, were Hussein began losing all of his supported and didn't want to leave the country.

Sorry again for the long post.

[SMOKEY]

Originally posted by stung
What's the title of this forum?

Some of you forget there are more terrorists other than AlQuida. This war is against terrorism not just AlQuida. Iraq was supporting terrorists not only financially but by giving them safe-haven, logistical support and technology. The latter of those mentioned is where the urgancy comes into play.

Good point.

[NTOSVO]

Originally posted by SMOKEY
I by no means am an expert, but do have a opinion. I feel that we are still there for four major reasons. First, to help the nation of Iraq establish a new democratic government, second to stop Hussien (sp) followers from stirring up shit in the new nation, to HOPEFULLY find Weapons of Mass Destruction, and finally for the Oil. My reasons for this is one, it helps democratic nations like the US to settle issues in the United Nations (think of it like a Republican trying to get more people to become Republicans to back his ideas and president in this nation), secondly the Hussein followers are going around killing innocent people and this needs to stop, thirdly Bush really needs for the troops to find weapons of mass destruction so he doesn't look so bad, and finally even though the oil hasn't really been mentioned everyone knows that the world is running out of oil and so the US is trying to become really friendly with all the nations that have the oil.

Sorry about the long post, but it does make sense.

:D

I have to disagree on you about the oil. If that is a reason that we are over there, then why the hell the gas prices haven't gone down?
Also you say the world is running out of oil. Can you search anything saying that the world is running out of oil?
Plus look up how much oil the us actually has. Don't forget Alaska. :eek:

Change takes time and everyone thinks it's an overnight thing. People have to evolve and change with the times and new way of thinking.

I support what is going on over there, and within a year more than likely I will be over there, protecting our freedom and helping them to sustain there's.

Chad

[OC]

Originally posted by sonic03gt
The U.S. and Iraq weren't exactly on great terms BEFORE we attacked their country. Do you think we'd be on better terms if we just let them rebuild it themselves?

That would be asking for more terrorist strikes, IMO.

I see that point, however I just don't see any Govt. we put in place being accepted or surviving. I also have a problem increasing the National Debt for another country. They should have killed Saddam themselves, just because they didn't doesn't mean we should have to go in and rebuild there country since we went in and got him.

Terrorist will be out there regardless if we rebuild Iraq or not.

[MouseKiller]

Originally posted by SMOKEY
The fact that members of the 911 commision worked with Bin Laden's bother, or the fact that the president knew about the attacks and continued to stay at a elementery school reading to the children?

PS.....I am a firm supporter of Bush, so don't try and bash me for being a non Bush supporter.

Hey, you forgot to add JFK to the plot....

[SMOKEY]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Here is on place to read about the oil shortage. Think about it though, how is oil produced. With the decomposing animals, plants, and other materials of the earth over millions of years. With the current population of the earthc consuming oil like it is, then we are using it faster that the earth can make more. We will still have synthetic oils though, it will just more expensive to run our beloved Mustangs in the future. Like 20 years down the road I feel.


JFK.....that is a easy one. There were three shooters Oswald, someone on the overpass, and someone standing behind the fence to the right of the school book depsitory. I guess you think Oswald acted as the Lone shooter too, huh.

[SMOKEY]

Originally posted by reef93gt
I see that point, however I just don't see any Govt. we put in place being accepted or surviving. I also have a problem increasing the National Debt for another country. They should have killed Saddam themselves, just because they didn't doesn't mean we should have to go in and rebuild there country since we went in and got him.

Terrorist will be out there regardless if we rebuild Iraq or not.

In a perfect world, the people of Iraq would have over thrown Hussien and possibly killed him. In the real world that I live in that doesn't happen. Think of Hitler, there are crazy people out there that rule with fear and torture. They cannot be over thrown by their own people, but instread by another country lacking that fear.

[sonic03gt]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Terrorist will be out there regardless if we rebuild Iraq or not.

True, but there wouldn't be as many. ;) Plus the U.S. wouldn't look so good to the rest of the world including the U.N. if we blew shit up and then didn't fix it.

The goal was to get Saddam out, but if we don't help the Iraqis build a new better government, it will all go back to shit, which may still happen when we do finally leave.

[sonic03gt]

Originally posted by SMOKEY
[url]There were three shooters Oswald, someone on the overpass, and someone standing behind the fence to the right of the school book depsitory. I guess you think Oswald acted as the Lone shooter too, huh.

I bet ya Jack Ruby knew who did it.

[SMOKEY]

Sure did.

[line-em-up]

why is it that if you don' believe we should be over in iraq, then you must be a liberal. you people sure love to jump to conclusions and label people.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by reef93gt
I understand why we went in there, and I actually believe that Clinton's passive stance caused 9/11. However my question is if we already went in there and got Saddam, and won the war, why are we still there. Is it our responsibility to rebuild their country?

We definitely agree about Clinton bearing alot of responsibility for Al Quaeda being so strong and successful on 9/11.

I do not believe we can go in, overthrow Saddam, and leave without giving them a chance to get their government in some semblance of organization. I like the June 30th deadline for them to take over control and hope we make a quick exit. I really believe we will take years to completely vacate troops in country, but every week, month and year should continue the decrease in numbers.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by black01gt
I did answer your question, but lets try this:
1)I DO think there is going to be another attack on American soil, like there has already been recently on foriegn soil by Al Queda. NOT IRAQ; AL QUEDA, do you get it?!? I already, absolutely DO NOT think that Bush has done everything possible to protect Americans, and has in fact diverted an extremely focused, patriotic and united American society (remember all the Flags & emails with pics of Bin Laden with a missle up his ass) to chase his own agenda in Iraq. I don't need to wait for another attack, to ask for his resignation. I think he and Ken Lay should be cell mates now.
2) I don't get offended, but actually am amused by the lack of vocabulary used by "conservatives". I also don't consider my common sense views as liberal. Just because I don't think gov't spending LIBERALLY is a good idea, doesn't make me consider myself a "liberal". Just because I think we should CONSERVE the economy and security of this nation (for real, not with smoke and mirrors) doesn't make me consider myself a "conservative". But if you need to, call me what makes it simple for you.

You didn't answer the question directly, but your answer will do. I do get that Iraq is not necessarily Al Quaeda, although there are ties between them. Do you get it that the war on terror is not just Al Quaeda but all terrorism and the countries that support them? I know Libya and Khadaffi sure get it, do YOU! I also get it that the patriotism was at an all time high after 9/11 but the average persons attention span isn't more than a day or two. I know way too many ADD wishy-washy types who are used to a 30 minute TV show for a problem to be solved and for video games where the bad guy is killed in seconds, who have lost patience for the long term efforts that are required for this long term problem. Al Quaeda and those who wish us dead have planned for decades to kill us, it will not end in a few months as some like you may want. That is the basis of my frustration with those who speak the talk like you are speaking. See, the difference between conservatives and liberals is very simple. Conservatives respect your opinions, we just think you are wrong, but liberals don't respect conservative views, they attack them. How do I know this? Because I was a liberal democrat and even voted for Clinton. I have been on both sides and I can speak about those who view the world through both glasses. Can you say that?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by BadLXHB302
I think he just wanted to call somebody a liberal.

Thats a pretty funny sig.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by SMOKEY
The fact that members of the 911 commision worked with Bin Laden's bother, or the fact that the president knew about the attacks and continued to stay at a elementery school reading to the children?

PS.....I am a firm supporter of Bush, so don't try and bash me for being a non Bush supporter.

You support Bush yet think he was wrong for finishing his appearance at that school? What could he ahve done in the few minutes he would have had if he had left early? Man, even my very liberal brother doesn't have a problem with him staying at the school. LOL

Do you have any non-conspiracy theory links to the accusation about 9/11 members and Bin Ladens brother?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by line-em-up
why is it that if you don' believe we should be over in iraq, then you must be a liberal. you people sure love to jump to conclusions and label people.

Because you can't find a liberal who thinks we should be in Iraq. Pretty simple if you ask me. The label only applies if you act, speak, or confess to the actions of the label placed upon you. Label me if you want, if it applies, I won't disagree with it. If I don't care about your opinion I will politely ignore you since I doubt it would bother me anyway.

Anyone care to answer why so many get upset when called a liberal, but no one ever gets offended b being called a conservative? BTW, I never argued when someone labeled me a liberal when I was one.

[OC]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Anyone care to answer why so many get upset when called a liberal, but no one ever gets offended b being called a conservative? BTW, I never argued when someone labeled me a liberal when I was one.

Probably because we have so many people on the board who use that as a blanket answer, that way they do not have to defend/support their position.

I believe that we were correct for going into Afghanistan, as well as Iraq. However I do not believe we should still be over there. It is not our responsibility to rebuild Iraq.

I also thinks it's funny we have so many people on this board who think we should be over there, and it's ok to lose American's soldiers in Iraq, yet I don't see them running down to the Recruiter to join up....maybe they don't believe that heavily about it after all:eek:

[Fobra]

Originally posted by reef93gt


I believe that we were correct for going into Afghanistan, as well as Iraq. However I do not believe we should still be over there. It is not our responsibility to rebuild Iraq.



who should rebuild iraq then? certainly the iraqis cant as of now.:confused:

[OC]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
who should rebuild iraq then? certainly the iraqis cant as of now.:confused:

I really don't care....they should have overthrown Saddam, they didn't, so we did. He supported the Terrorist, GW lived up to his end of his promise to deal with those who supported terrorists. Now let's leave, and stop losing American soldiers, and let the Iraqi's deal with themselves.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by reef93gt
I really don't care....they should have overthrown Saddam, they didn't, so we did. He supported the Terrorist, GW lived up to his end of his promise to deal with those who supported terrorists. Now let's leave, and stop losing American soldiers, and let the Iraqi's deal with themselves.

they couldn't overthrow saddam because saddam kept rebellious attitudes and actions to a low by imposing torture on anyone suspected of expressing opposition to saddam. there was too much fear in the iraqis to even act out, let alone they had no strategy or military personell to rebell against saddam and the baath regime. the u.s. and coalition forces are the only stabilizing forces in that country, if we leave, there is no way that country will get back on its feet.

[OC]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
they couldn't overthrow saddam because saddam kept rebellious attitudes and actions to a low by imposing torture on anyone suspected of expressing opposition to saddam. there was too much fear in the iraqis to even act out, let alone they had no strategy or military personell to rebell against saddam and the baath regime. the u.s. and coalition forces are the only stabilizing forces in that country, if we leave, there is no way that country will get back on its feet.

OK, now let me ask you a question, If you believe in this so much, as I believe you do from your "You shut the fuck up...we'll defend america" poster that you posted. Are you willing to go sign up tommorow...not if there is a draft... tommorow to go help these Iraqis?
Or are you only willing to post about it on the net, and then go off to school or work? If you are not willing can you include yourself in that "we'll defend" part of your poster?

[Fobra]

Originally posted by reef93gt
OK, now let me ask you a question, If you believe in this so much, as I believe you do from your "You shut the fuck up...we'll defend america" poster that you posted. Are you willing to go sign up tommorow...not if there is a draft... tommorow to go help these Iraqis?
Or are you only willing to post about it on the net, and then go off to school or work? If you are not willing can you include yourself in that "we'll defend" part of your poster?

well, i dont know if this will satisfy your answer completely, but i was so close to signing up for the marine reserves last year after high school but my grandpa talked me out of it by telling me to graduate from college first. up here at unt, i have talked to the marine recruiter for the officer program several times and it sounds like something i would like to persue in because in the future, i would like to work for a government agency and it always helps to have a military background. so having that said, i see myself signing up when i'm a junior in college, right now i'm a freshman so i have a couple more years to go. i was told by the recruiter that i would do about 3.5 years of service being an officer, that is something i know i can do.:) also, you need to have a degree in college to do the officer program. so if you decide to discredit me because of not signing "up tomarrow," thats your call.

[zachary]

well hell i know what we should do...lets import alot of them for SLAVE use...i mean hell we already invaded there territory and took control, kinda like we did to texas went where we were not suppose to be fought and practically stole ground, kinda like we did to the native americans too, no wait we just slaughtered most of them and gave them cash to compensate for there loss of ability to live, no wait......its been a hundred years+ we are more advanced in thought by now right....well i guess 2 world war's later by some miracle America is still the "leader of the free world" well thats amazing...so lets actually fight for a RIGHT cause for once...wait whats that oh yes the country turning against itself because most ppl are to ignorant to understand the whys of life and instead only look at what makes them happy even if it does mean the great ole' USA looks like a bunch of jackasses across the world who gives a fuck anymore right! why should these dictators who kill their own people and could harm us because we know they have intent too, why should we give a fuck about that. i know lets ALLOW a few more buildings and thousand ppl to die maybe THEN AND ONLY THEN, itll inspire the soul of the american ppl to be patriotic again of course only for a few week span..then when we actually do what we say and eliminate threats not only because its the right thing to do but also because the people want too, then WHAT A PERFECT TIME to turn against ourselveS and show the world what a bunch of whiny bitches we really are because a certain few do not understand why losses and funds are a MUST when you are trying to "rule the free world" not dictate but rule, its what you all wanted from the beginning isnt it

[zachary]

Originally posted by reef93gt
OK, now let me ask you a question, If you believe in this so much, as I believe you do from your "You shut the fuck up...we'll defend america" poster that you posted. Are you willing to go sign up tommorow...not if there is a draft... tommorow to go help these Iraqis?
Or are you only willing to post about it on the net, and then go off to school or work? If you are not willing can you include yourself in that "we'll defend" part of your poster?
if that was my job your damn straight i would be WILLING too do so, but its not there is a different position for everybody in life some are to be soldiers some arent each part keeps the world going day to day, and we are ALL included in the we in "WE DEFEND" because "WE" pay for their supplies and salaries so dont even for one second say that each and everyone of us are NOT a part of that WE

[OC]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
well, i dont know if this will satisfy your answer completely, but i was so close to signing up for the marine reserves last year after high school but my grandpa talked me out of it by telling me to graduate from college first. up here at unt, i have talked to the marine recruiter for the officer program several times and it sounds like something i would like to persue in because in the future, i would like to work for a government agency and it always helps to have a military background. so having that said, i see myself signing up when i'm a junior in college, right now i'm a freshman so i have a couple more years to go. i was told by the recruiter that i would do about 3.5 years of service being an officer, that is something i know i can do.:) also, you need to have a degree in college to do the officer program. so if you decide to discredit me because of not signing "up tomarrow," thats your call.

So you were going to join, then you didn't, now your thinking about joining, and because your thinking about joining in 3 years when it's probably going to be over you count yourself in the "we'll defend" category? Just trying to get this straight, not trying to discredit.

We can argue all we want, but we are not going to change each others views anyway.

[OC]

Originally posted by zachary
if that was my job your damn straight i would be WILLING too do so, but its not there is a different position for everybody in life some are to be soldiers some arent each part keeps the world going day to day, and we are ALL included in the we in "WE DEFEND" because "WE" pay for their supplies and salaries so dont even for one second say that each and everyone of us are NOT a part of that WE

You must be joking, you are part of the WE because you pay your taxes!!! This is the second time I read that, judging by your previous post you were ready to go over and invade Iraq by yourself. If you don't believe strongly enough to go run out and join...maybe you don't really believe:eek:

[Fobra]

Originally posted by reef93gt
So you were going to join, then you didn't, now your thinking about joining, and because your thinking about joining in 3 years when it's probably going to be over you count yourself in the "we'll defend" category? Just trying to get this straight, not trying to discredit.

We can argue all we want, but we are not going to change each others views anyway.

the recruiter told me that officers start out at higher rankings because they go through college and thats the route i want to take, thats another reason why chose not to join straight out of high school. the issue is not whether i am going to go over and fight right now, the issue of the topic is my support for the way we are handleing iraq right now. why is this a question that hear often on the net, "are you willing to go over and defend your stance on the war?":rolleyes: thats bogus imo, this comes down to if you support the cause, not if you literally fight for the cause. in a democratic society, we are all allowed to vote and i will certainly vote in a direction consistant with my beliefs.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by zachary
why should these dictators who kill their own people and could harm us because we know they have intent too, why should we give a fuck about that. Good thing you are not in power, Hitler would have done taken over the world:rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
So you were going to join, then you didn't, now your thinking about joining, and because your thinking about joining in 3 years when it's probably going to be over you count yourself in the "we'll defend" category? Just trying to get this straight, not trying to discredit.

We can argue all we want, but we are not going to change each others views anyway. What ever reef, you were trying to discredit me in another post just like you are trying to discredit here. Maybe someday you'll understand just b/c your passion isnt in the Army, that it dosent make you any less patriotic:rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
You must be joking, you are part of the WE because you pay your taxes!!! This is the second time I read that, judging by your previous post you were ready to go over and invade Iraq by yourself. If you don't believe strongly enough to go run out and join...maybe you don't really believe:eek: I believe in God. Just b/c I dont get up in front of the church every day and preach to the congregation dose that mean I dont believe or not in supportive of church growth?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
the recruiter told me that officers start out at higher rankings because they go through college and thats the route i want to take, thats another reason why chose not to join straight out of high school. the issue is not whether i am going to go over and fight right now, the issue of the topic is my support for the way we are handleing iraq right now. why is this a question that hear often on the net, "are you willing to go over and defend your stance on the war?":rolleyes: thats bogus imo, this comes down to if you support the cause, not if you literally fight for the cause. in a democratic society, we are all allowed to vote and i will certainly vote in a direction consistant with my beliefs.
Hey RedHotCobra, Your Grandfather is wise, and you have a good plan. Stick to it to get the most opportunity out of what you want to do. Whether a person believes the Iraq "conflict" is proper or not, the US must have a strong and smart Military.
Don't give up your plan for a degree then military, and good luck.:cool:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Feel free to answer my question first, then I will try and decipher your question.

Here is another question if you ever decide to try and answer the first one, why do you and other persons who speak liberal speak get so offended by being called to the mat for it?
Your turn. Why do you need to decipher, my question is in plain english?!?:rolleyes:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by stung
What's the title of this forum?

Some of you forget there are more terrorists other than AlQuida. This war is against terrorism not just AlQuida. Iraq was supporting terrorists not only financially but by giving them safe-haven, logistical support and technology. The latter of those mentioned is where the urgancy comes into play.
Hussain's Republican Army giving safe-haven and logistical support to Al Queda? I don't think so.
Iraq wasn't even giving technology to Iraq. They had some tired-assed, scared shitless, scientist that even if they could figure anything out, funding corruption prevented them from getting it into actuality. Bush knew this before the "invasion". He also knew how gullable people are.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Bush knew this before the "invasion". He also knew how gullable people are. proof?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by zachary
well hell i know what we should do...lets import alot of them for SLAVE use...i mean hell we already invaded there territory and took control, kinda like we did to texas went where we were not suppose to be fought and practically stole ground, kinda like we did to the native americans too, no wait we just slaughtered most of them and gave them cash to compensate for there loss of ability to live, no wait......its been a hundred years+ we are more advanced in thought by now right....well i guess 2 world war's later by some miracle America is still the "leader of the free world" well thats amazing...so lets actually fight for a RIGHT cause for once...wait whats that oh yes the country turning against itself because most ppl are to ignorant to understand the whys of life and instead only look at what makes them happy even if it does mean the great ole' USA looks like a bunch of jackasses across the world who gives a fuck anymore right! why should these dictators who kill their own people and could harm us because we know they have intent too, why should we give a fuck about that. i know lets ALLOW a few more buildings and thousand ppl to die maybe THEN AND ONLY THEN, itll inspire the soul of the american ppl to be patriotic again of course only for a few week span..then when we actually do what we say and eliminate threats not only because its the right thing to do but also because the people want too, then WHAT A PERFECT TIME to turn against ourselveS and show the world what a bunch of whiny bitches we really are because a certain few do not understand why losses and funds are a MUST when you are trying to "rule the free world" not dictate but rule, its what you all wanted from the beginning isnt it
Whoa there Zachery, you might consider some de-caffinated coffee...
Here is how I look at it. If you're in a gun fight with two guys. One has a gun (actually completed a plan to fly planes into bldgs. and kill thousands of Americans-IN FUCKING NEW YORK!!!), and the other has a knife (an asshole that tortures and kills his own ppl and makes mild threats to the U.S.), which one are you going to eliminate first. Make the wrong decision and you might be dead!
I guess that's my whine, because we have a real problem here and a leader that considers his own agenda more important than the security of THIS NATION.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Whoa there Zachery, you might consider some de-caffinated coffee...
Here is how I look at it. If you're in a gun fight with two guys. One has a gun (actually completed a plan to fly planes into bldgs. and kill thousands of Americans-IN FUCKING NEW YORK!!!), and the other has a knife (an asshole that tortures and kills his own ppl and makes mild threats to the U.S.), which one are you going to eliminate first. Make the wrong decision and you might be dead!
I guess that's my whine, because we have a real problem here and a leader that considers his own agenda more important than the security of THIS NATION. Except you have it wrong. Sadaam had the gun. Osama had the knife. How would you like it if the WMD were handed over to Osama? Or was Sadaam not crazy enough to do that? Thats right, he as only crazy enough to envade other countries and use his WMD on his own people.;)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Except you have it wrong. Sadaam had the gun. Osama had the knife. How would you like it if the WMD were handed over to Osama? Or was Sadaam not crazy enough to do that? Thats right, he as only crazy enough to envade other countries and use his WMD on his own people.;)
What WMD? :confused: The rusted out piece of shit Migs, or the antique Russian rifles?
Osama had the knife? Remind me to NOT get caught in a gunfight with you watching my back. Are you, with a straight face, saying that Hussain was more of a direct threat than Bin Laden etal? Are is it that you are willing to blindly support Dubya, at all cost?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
What WMD? :confused: The rusted out piece of shit Migs, or the antique Russian rifles?
You know, the ones he used on his own people. Or did you forget?
Originally posted by black01gt

Osama had the knife? Remind me to NOT get caught in a gunfight with you watching my back. Are you, with a straight face, saying that Hussain was more of a direct threat than Bin Laden etal? Are is it that you are willing to blindly support Dubya, at all cost? Ok, lets ask why was Osama more a threat than Sadaam? Did Osama have WMDs (MAYBE IF SADAAM GAVE THEM TO HIM)? Was Osama a dictator to a country? Osama was just about handed over to Bill Clinton on a platter but he wouldnt take him. Maybe we could have prevented 9-11 if Clinton would have taken Osama when he was offered? I dunno. But please, you think Sadaam hates us any less than Al Queda dose?

[fastfordfan1]

Alqueda dose? WTF??

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
proof?
I'm not going research back like I'm doing a term paper to acquire you some proof.
But..with Cheney going to the CIA seven times to make em re-write their reports because there wasn't verbage in there about finding WMD, then out & out LYING about the plutonium from Africa and revealing the ID of a CIA agent (for schoolboy spite-how destinguished?), and then finally with the last official report to the White House, just before the invasion stating that "the best intelligence we have tells us there are no WMD present in Iraq", they sure went to a lot of effort to sell the ole WMD gag, in Bush/Cheney's usual fashion, their way or the highway. Hey. it's their Frat Party, right?
Proof that ppl are gullable? "Lee Harvey Oswald, a lone assasin...." Or do you believe that one too?:rolleyes:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
You know, the ones he used on his own people. Or did you forget?

Ok, lets ask why was Osama more a threat than Sadaam? Did Osama have WMDs (MAYBE IF SADAAM GAVE THEM TO HIM)?

Was Osama a dictator to a country?

Osama was just about handed over to Bill Clinton on a platter but he wouldnt take him. Maybe we could have prevented 9-11 if Clinton would have taken Osama when he was offered?

I dunno. But please, you think Sadaam hates us any less than Al Queda dose?


1) No I didn't forget the mustard gas (from WWII) he used what, 12 or 14 years ago. Scary!!!!
2) Yes! They were called Boeing 737's. No, Saddam didn't give em to him, we did.
3) Who cares if he was a dictator?. He rules a bunch of dangerous people. Is this more of your crying for a bunch of towelheads?
4) Oh, so this is about Clinton. I suggest that you forget about an administration four years ago and pay attention now. Jeesh!!!
5) Why does it matter who hates us less? Osama, Saddam, Abdul, Achnon...they ALL hate us, even the ones that claim to "like" us. What is your point?:cool:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
I'm not going research back like I'm doing a term paper to acquire you some proof.
But..with Cheney going to the CIA seven times to make em re-write their reports because there wasn't verbage in there about finding WMD, then out & out LYING about the plutonium from Africa and revealing the ID of a CIA agent (for schoolboy spite-how destinguished?), and then finally with the last official report to the White House, just before the invasion stating that "the best intelligence we have tells us there are no WMD present in Iraq", they sure went to a lot of effort to sell the ole WMD gag, in Bush/Cheney's usual fashion, their way or the highway. Hey. it's their Frat Party, right?
Proof that ppl are gullable? "Lee Harvey Oswald, a lone assasin...." Or do you believe that one too?:rolleyes: no proof? then your talk is cheap. Quit acting like its fact then. End of story. I bet your the same type that says bush lied about the wmd but yet cant prove that he had knowledge that sadaam didnt have them...
Question, have you seen the mass graves under sadaam of the people that died from them? no big deal huh? guess hitler with genocide wasnt a big deal either huh?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
1) No I didn't forget the mustard gas (from WWII) he used what, 12 or 14 years ago. Scary!!!! Like I said, you seen the graves of the dead? yea, it is scary. How would you like to be one amoung those dead under Sadaam. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by black01gt

2) Yes! They were called Boeing 737's. No, Saddam didn't give em to him, we did.
Ok, so I be we just said here is some 737s, fly them in to the twin towers. So its america's fault now? how idiotic.... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by black01gt

3) Who cares if he was a dictator?. He rules a bunch of dangerous people. Is this more of your crying for a bunch of towelheads?
Yea, and who cared if Hitler was a dictator? we did... and who saved the world? we did... Did Hitler directly attack us? No... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by black01gt
4) Oh, so this is about Clinton. I suggest that you forget about an administration four years ago and pay attention now. Jeesh!!!
This just shows the hypocrisy in your double standard. Then why investigate whe 9/11? lets pay attention now and not 4 years ago... :rolleyes:
5) Why does it matter who hates us less? Osama, Saddam, Abdul, Achnon...they ALL hate us, even the ones that claim to "like" us. What is your point?:cool: [/B][/QUOTE] B/C you clearly dont understand what this war is about.

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
What ever reef, you were trying to discredit me in another post just like you are trying to discredit here. Maybe someday you'll understand just b/c your passion isnt in the Army, that it dosent make you any less patriotic:rolleyes:

I am not trying to discredit either of you, but you both jumped up calling me a liberal etc. because I do not believe in what we are doing in Iraq.
However when I point out that both of you are not running down to enlist you get upset. Maybe you believe, but you don't believe enough to give up YOUR life. Guess you have enough passion to argue about it over the net, but not to go fight for it.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
I am not trying to discredit either of you, but you both jumped up calling me a liberal etc. because I do not believe in what we are doing in Iraq.
However when I point out that both of you are not running down to enlist you get upset. Maybe you believe, but you don't believe enough to give up YOUR life. Guess you have enough passion to argue about it over the net, but not to go fight for it. How dose not running down to get enlisted proof of if I believe what we are doing in Iraq is right or not? How about all people that support the war run down and get enlisted, how many people dose that leave to run the country? not many:rolleyes:

[Fobra]

Originally posted by reef93gt
I am not trying to discredit either of you, but you both jumped up calling me a liberal etc. because I do not believe in what we are doing in Iraq.
However when I point out that both of you are not running down to enlist you get upset. Maybe you believe, but you don't believe enough to give up YOUR life. Guess you have enough passion to argue about it over the net, but not to go fight for it.

would you be saying the samething to my 54 year old dad or how about my 86 year old grandpa, they both believe in this war the same way as i do and still believe in it at its current stage. should they go sign up right now since they believe in it so strongly?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
no proof? then your talk is cheap. Quit acting like its fact then. End of story. I bet your the same type that says bush lied about the wmd but yet cant prove that he had knowledge that sadaam didnt have them...
Question, have you seen the mass graves under sadaam of the people that died from them? no big deal huh? guess hitler with genocide wasnt a big deal either huh?
Stop talking like you have proof of anything. Quit acting like it's fact, just because you say it is. End of story. Can you prove that Bush did have knowledge of Hussains WMD. I guess if he can't then neither can you.
We can play this "I know you are, but what am I?" grade school crap all day, but it won't get us anywhere.
You continue to bitch about Hitler & Clinton, with your head up Daddy Bush's ass, but when the next building falls, don't try to blame it on Hussain (or Clinton).

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
How dose not running down to get enlisted proof of if I believe what we are doing in Iraq is right or not? How about all people that support the war run down and get enlisted, how many people dose that leave to run the country? not many:rolleyes:
Look here "281R". It's d-o-e-s, does, not dose! And you're going to explain this war to me?!?
You sound like you would be the first in line to stay behind and "run the country".
I think RedHotCobra actually has an honorable plan, but I get the sense that you'd make good arm chair soldier. Oh yea, you whipped Hitler didn't you. What valor?:rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Stop talking like you have proof of anything. Quit acting like it's fact, just because you say it is. End of story. Can you prove that Bush did have knowledge of Hussains WMD. I guess if he can't then neither can you.
We can play this "I know you are, but what am I?" grade school crap all day, but it won't get us anywhere.
You continue to bitch about Hitler & Clinton, with your head up Daddy Bush's ass, but when the next building falls, don't try to blame it on Hussain (or Clinton). now your not even making sense. You act as if Hitler was a good guy? Hitler was to blame for a lot... Hello, where have you been? and yes there is proof that Clinton could have taken Osama, he even said so. Thats more proof than you got. I asked for proof, you cant show it. So end of discussion. Or is your proof in one of your conspiracy theory books?
I am far from up Bush's ass, there is in fact a lot that I disagree with him on, but on the war on terror I think he is doing a good job. Im not a koolaid drinker:rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Look here "281R". It's d-o-e-s, does, not dose! And you're going to explain this war to me?!?
You sound like you would be the first in line to stay behind and "run the country".
I think RedHotCobra actually has an honorable plan, but I get the sense that you'd make good arm chair soldier. Oh yea, you whipped Hitler didn't you. What valor?:rolleyes: Last cheap shot of desperation:rolleyes: Sorry teacher, would you like me or somebody else to check your grammar? or are you perfect?

[poopnut2]

History shows that in times of war the United States people usually stick with the current president. I think that's an unmentioned reason.

I also believe that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It's a fact that EVERY global power is going to have weapons of mass destruction. Hell, I bet Canada has a few nukes stashed away. We just have to find them. Unfortunately, a big part of that is to get Bush in the clear.

It's one thing to be over there liberating or whatever, but to give the country billions of dollars for reconstruction is a little much. Why are we funding freeways when less then 1% of their population can even afford an automobile? And half of that 1% is shooting and bombing our troops.

Double edged sword.

[OC]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
would you be saying the samething to my 54 year old dad or how about my 86 year old grandpa, they both believe in this war the same way as i do and still believe in it at its current stage. should they go sign up right now since they believe in it so strongly?

There is an age limit to join the military...so what are you about 19? No reason you can't go for the family is there?

Are they on here calling people unpatriotic like you are...even though you won't join?

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
How dose not running down to get enlisted proof of if I believe what we are doing in Iraq is right or not? How about all people that support the war run down and get enlisted, how many people dose that leave to run the country? not many:rolleyes:

Actually if you check the latest polls it would still leave plenty of people to run the country. So what are you waiting on? Guess it's OK for other people to die....wouldn't want anything to happen to you now would we?:rolleyes:

[Paladin]

Originally posted by black01gt
Your turn. Why do you need to decipher, my question is in plain english?!?:rolleyes:

Too much work to fiugure it out. Re-phrase it and I will answer.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Actually if you check the latest polls it would still leave plenty of people to run the country. So what are you waiting on? Guess it's OK for other people to die....wouldn't want anything to happen to you now would we?:rolleyes: oops, Im sorry I forgot to check my polls on Democrats.com this morning... What was I thinking:rolleyes: Yea, we would have the appeasers and the anti-war/freedom crowd to run the country huh? Is to die ever ok? And if you join the military you can expect that you might have to put your life on the line, but sometimes death happens. And yet if I am called to go to the military and serve my country I would do it even if I liked the war or not. Would you? But as much as I would like to stay with my family on earth, if I die I know where I am going. Do you?

You dont like the war, so why dont you go sign up with some anti-war rally and help the terrorist? Im sure they need all the help they can get.:rolleyes:

[Fobra]

Originally posted by reef93gt
There is an age limit to join the military...so what are you about 19? No reason you can't go for the family is there?

Are they on here calling people unpatriotic like you are...even though you won't join?

like i said before, i'm going to finish college first. besides, my dad sincerely stressed the fact that he wanted me to finish college and not take a chance of getting called up during college since that would disrupt my credits. so i'm going to stick by my dads word because most of the time when i take his advice about life, it works out for the better, the times i didn't take his advice is the time i regret not taking his advice. i wasn't calling anybody "unpatriotic." patriotism is where you support your country and have a lot of pride about it in my opinion, that does not mean you have to enlist to exhibit patriotism. however, my dad and grandpa do think most of the libs are "unpatriotic." i have not told anybody they are unpatriotic before, i have only told very few that they are unamerican when they express their disgust about the USA. i have yet to recall specifically addressing anyone on this board as "unamerican/unpatriotic."

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
like i said before, i'm going to finish college first. besides, my dad sincerely stressed the fact that he wanted me to finish college and not take a chance of getting called up during college since that would disrupt my credits. so i'm going to stick by my dads word because most of the time when i take his advice about life, it works out for the better, the times i didn't take his advice is the time i regret not taking his advice. i wasn't calling anybody "unpatriotic." patriotism is where you support your country and have a lot of pride about it in my opinion, that does not mean you have to enlist to exhibit patriotism. however, my dad and grandpa do think most of the libs are "unpatriotic." i have not told anybody they are unpatriotic before, i have only told very few that they are unamerican when they express their disgust about the USA. i have yet to recall specifically addressing anyone on this board as "unamerican/unpatriotic." Right on man, go with your passion in life. Some people it is the military and some it is not. Dosent make you any less unpatriotic if you dont join. If you have to and there is a desperate need to join, thats what the draft if for.:)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Like I said, you seen the graves of the dead? yea, it is scary. How would you like to be one amoung those dead under Sadaam. :rolleyes:

No I haven't. Have you? I don't mean on TV, or in the paper. I don't even mean have you gone to Iraq and walked up next to the graves, someone might have just fluffed up the dirt there. I want proof! No proof! Your talk is cheap! Quit acting like it's fact! End of story! Bring me bones, or I'll just assume you read it or saw it or heard it! But for you, and you only, that's enough to make it "proof" because you say it is. Truth (proof) is nothing any of us can provide, no matter how many articles or pictures or whatever we cut & paste!
So...here's your proof (grabbing my crotch now)!!! :D

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
No I haven't. Have you? I don't mean on TV, or in the paper. I don't even mean have you gone to Iraq and walked up next to the graves, someone might have just fluffed up the dirt there. I want proof! No proof! Your talk is cheap! Quit acting like it's fact! End of story! Bring me bones, or I'll just assume you read it or saw it or heard it! But for you, and you only, that's enough to make it "proof" because you say it is. Truth (proof) is nothing any of us can provide, no matter how many articles or pictures or whatever we cut & paste!
So...here's your proof (grabbing my crotch now)!!! :D I guess we really need to go to Iraq for a history lession for you liberals huh? Pictures and article only dull your senses huh? Hey, I can help educate the ignorant, but now Im just arguing with stupidity:rolleyes:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Too much work to fiugure it out. Re-phrase it and I will answer.
Yes sir Boss! Coming right up sir.............fuck you.:D

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Truth (proof) is nothing any of us can provide, no matter how many articles or pictures or whatever we cut & paste!
So I guess Genocide never happened huh? I wasnt there to witness it, neither were you. All we have is articles and pictures. So by your logic we cant say it truthfully happend? Right:rolleyes:

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
And yet if I am called to go to the military and serve my country I would do it even if I liked the war or not. Would you? But as much as I would like to stay with my family on earth, if I die I know where I am going. Do you?

Well considering I spent 9 years in the U.S. Army which included Desert Storm/Operation Joint Guard/Operation Intrinsic Action and Operation Desert Fox, some of these which I did not agree with, but I never shirked my obligation or duty to go, I would think that it is quite evident I HAVE served my country, and WILL do so again if needed. Now do you, who have never served have something else to say to me?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
I guess we really need to go to Iraq for a history lession for you liberals huh? :rolleyes:
You know damn well that your chicken-shit, big talk, sorry ass wouldn't go anywhere near Iraq!
You'd better just poke your chest out...and sit right there in front of that keyboard insulting anyone that doesn't jump on your goofy assed Bush-Whacked bandwagon. Mega Dittos! go to Iraq-LMAO! Be sure to check out those graves while your there. Oh, and maybe you can adopt Abdul & Achnon, you know, take em under your wing, so to speak.(just check em for b*mbs first!)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Well considering I spent 9 years in the U.S. Army which included Desert Storm/Operation Joint Guard/Operation Intrinsic Action and Operation Desert Fox, some of these which I did not agree with, but I never shirked my obligation or duty to go, I would think that it is quite evident I HAVE served my country, and WILL do so again if needed. Now do you, who have never served have something else to say to me?
He'll be wanting you to send him "proof" now.
I salute you BTW! The only ones on here that seem to know what they're talking about are Vets. Wonder why that is?!
(I am not a Vet, but I'm smart enough to listen to one.)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Well considering I spent 9 years in the U.S. Army which included Desert Storm/Operation Joint Guard/Operation Intrinsic Action and Operation Desert Fox, some of these which I did not agree with, but I never shirked my obligation or duty to go, I would think that it is quite evident I HAVE served my country, and WILL do so again if needed. Now do you, who have never served have something else to say to me? yes, I have one more thing. And why did you sign up for the military?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
You know damn well that your chicken-shit, big talk, sorry ass wouldn't go anywhere near Iraq! Another stupid post by black01gt. You people make these threads worthless. Especially how ignorant this statement is.
Originally posted by black01gt

You'd better just poke your chest out...and sit right there in front of that keyboard insulting anyone that doesn't jump on your goofy assed Bush-Whacked bandwagon. Im hot the one insulting people on this thread, remember?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by black01gt
[B]
Yes sir Boss! Coming right up sir.............fuck you.
Oh, well I guess your memory is too short term and you wouldnt..

Originally posted by black01gt

Mega Dittos! go to Iraq-LMAO! Be sure to check out those graves while your there. Oh, and maybe you can adopt Abdul & Achnon, you know, take em under your wing, so to speak.(just check em for b*mbs first!) Yea, mega dittos, why dont you go to germany and learn that Genocide really happened, and then you can stay there and hang out with your fellow chickens;)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt

(I am not a Vet, but I'm smart enough to listen to one.) Yea, only the ones on your side of the fence.
My dad is a vet,
my uncle is a vet,
my grandpa is a vet,
George Bush is a vet,
one of my good friends John is a vet,
and I can go on and on, and they have differnent opinions than reef93gt. Will you listen to them? I doubt it, b/c you are on the wrong side of the fence.
Liberalism, a mental disorder!

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
You know damn well that your chicken-shit, big talk, sorry ass wouldn't go anywhere near Iraq!
At least I wouldnt dodge the draft like you;)

[Paladin]

Originally posted by black01gt
Yes sir Boss! Coming right up sir.............fuck you.:D

Oh how surprising, a hostile liberal. I'm shocked!

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 281R
At least I wouldnt dodge the draft like you;)

I doubt he dodged the draft, he is either too young to enlist or so old that he is hostile and defensive that he didn't serve when all his buddies did. :p

[GodsLs1]

Pull em out drop 1 bomb kill em all that fixes the fucking problem..

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
I doubt he dodged the draft, he is either too young to enlist or so old that he is hostile and defensive that he didn't serve when all his buddies did. :p Im not implying this statement as a fact that I know he did or would. Im more implying it as sarcasim that if he thinks that he knows me that I am a "chicken sh*t" and wouldnt go to Iraq. Then by his own standards I will assert that he would dodge the draft if there was one.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
, a hostile liberal.
Is called...a Radical!!! :cool:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by GodsLs1
Pull em out drop 1 bomb kill em all that fixes the fucking problem..
No shit!!! No need to clutter up the atmosphere, but a few, well placed, MOAB's should teach em some manners. Iraq & Pakistan/Afganistan, problem solved for waaaay less than $187,000,000,000.00!
(but you gotta watch it, they'll call this "liberal" speak!)
"they all hate us anyhow, so let's drop the big one now..." Randy Newman

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
No shit!!! No need to clutter up the atmosphere, but a few, well placed, MOAB's should teach em some manners. Iraq & Pakistan/Afganistan, problem solved for waaaay less than $187,000,000,000.00!
(but you gotta watch it, they'll call this "liberal" speak!)
"they all hate us anyhow, so let's drop the big one now..." Randy Newman oh,, I thought he was talking about you:eek: :) Drag the liberals out and bomb them. Whoops!;)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Is called...a Radical!!! :cool:
<---- another vote for "hostile"

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R

George Bush is a vet,

Liberalism, a mental disorder!
"George Bush is a vet" LMAO. You have gotta be kidding me! I wouldn't let a Real Vet hear you say that, if I were you.
What is this vile hatred you have for anyone that you deem a "liberal"? You may have some "issues" about that.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
"George Bush is a vet" LMAO. You have gotta be kidding me! I wouldn't let a Real Vet hear you say that, if I were you.
What is this vile hatred you have for anyone that you deem a "liberal"? You may have some "issues" about that. More of a vet than you are.:eek: No hate, just disagreement. Hate? Im not the one in this thread saying "F*ck you"... I think the issue relies in yourself..;)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
<---- another vote for "hostile"
Well now 281r....that really hurt. :(

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Well now 281r....that really hurt. :( Well just chill out and enough with the F*ck You s!:cool: And maybe well have a recount, maybe there was some hanging chads! LOL:D

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Hate? Im not the one in this thread saying "F*ck you"... I think the issue relies in yourself..;)
And I'm not the one on this thread saying drag fellow Americans out and b*mb em cause they're "liberals", as you say.
"the issue relies in yourself..;)" WTF does that mean?!?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
And I'm not the one on this thread saying drag fellow Americans out and b*mb em cause they're "liberals", Please go re-read again, that is not what I said. I said and meant I thought that is what he was talking about.
Originally posted by black01gt

as you say.
No b/c I didnt sayOriginally posted by black01gt

"the issue relies in yourself..;)" WTF does that mean?!? It means that the liberal mental disorder you obviously have cant be fixed by me or any one else, you alone have to choose to change the way you think. Which it relies in yourself;)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Well just chill out and enough with the F*ck You s!:cool: And maybe well have a recount, maybe there was some hanging chads! LOL:D
No need to chill cause I'm pretty much just playin, but I apologize to the rest on here for the FU to "Notch 90", but next time he thinks he can order me to re-phrase a simple question and "he might try to decipher it" (what an ignorant ass?), he'll get another "FU"!
BTW-I don't think "hanging chads" are going to do it this time.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
It means that the liberal mental disorder you obviously have cant be fixed by me or any one else, you alone have to choose to change the way you think. Which it relies in yourself;)
Thanks 281. I'm going to reach way down into my soul and search. Then I'm going to really focus on broadening my way of thinking. Then I'm going to search for all the data I can on my surroundings. I'm going to listen to all of the Limbaugh/Hennisy/O'rielly that I can, and then I'm going to strive to overcome my "liberal mental disorder". Hell,(i mean heck) if I can do that, then next I can go to work on my "radical mental disorder". I see now that it "relies" in myself. I'll keep you posted. :)

[Paladin]

Originally posted by black01gt
No need to chill cause I'm pretty much just playin, but I apologize to the rest on here for the FU to "Notch 90", but next time he thinks he can order me to re-phrase a simple question and "he might try to decipher it" (what an ignorant ass?), he'll get another "FU"!
BTW-I don't think "hanging chads" are going to do it this time.

Well you could learn to read and if you noticed I was making fun of you. Maybe I deserved the FU, but allowing yourself to be baited into using foul language on the internet does not say much for you. It is one of my ways of deciding if someone is worth taking seriously. It usually gets an articulate well thought out response, but sometimes all the person can come up with is FU or "you don't know me."

Please refer to the above responses about liberal and hostile being synonymous. LOL

[Fobra]

<----*sits back and eats popcorn* lol

[The Punisher]

here you go!:cool:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Well you could learn to read and if you noticed I was making fun of you. Maybe I deserved the FU, but allowing yourself to be baited into using foul language on the internet does not say much for you. It is one of my ways of deciding if someone is worth taking seriously. It usually gets an articulate well thought out response, but sometimes all the person can come up with is FU or "you don't know me."

Please refer to the above responses about liberal and hostile being synonymous. LOL
And thank you very much for making fun of me.
I believe it's still your turn.
OK, I'll even "re-phrase" it for you, ready:
If you couldn't simply and immediately call someone that didn't agree with you a "liberal", then what other approach would you take? (if you have to decipher this question, then YOU need to learn to read)
I have news for you and numb-nuts. I'm not a liberal! Liberals are usually thoughtful, "articulated", and courtious pussies. Do I sound like one of those? And I'm damn sure not a "brain washed" Bush zombie. It has nothing to do with Republicans. I think John McCain is a strong, honest, and admirable leader, not to mention a very couragous soldier and POW, very much unlike our current....

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
And thank you very much for making fun of me.
I believe it's still your turn.
OK, I'll even "re-phrase" it for you, ready:
If you couldn't simply and immediately call someone that didn't agree with you a "liberal", then what other approach would you take? (if you have to decipher this question, then YOU need to learn to read)
I have news for you and numb-nuts. I'm not a liberal! Liberals are usually thoughtful, "articulated", and courtious pussies. Do I sound like one of those? And I'm damn sure not a "brain washed" Bush zombie. It has nothing to do with Republicans. I think John McCain is a strong, honest, and admirable leader, not to mention a very couragous soldier and POW, very much unlike our current.... So who are you going to vote for in 2004? Kerry or Bush? or neither?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
So who are you going to vote for in 2004? Kerry or Bush? or neither?
Abbie Hoffman!!! Just kidding.
Well I'm sure as hell going to vote (like that'll do a lot of good here in TX), and since a sentence in my post that you replied to stated, "And I'm sure as hell not some "brain washed" Bush zombie", I'll bet in one guess you can get it. oh no this is a trap, i'm baited again.:eek:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Abbie Hoffman!!! Just kidding.
Well I'm sure as hell going to vote (like that'll do a lot of good here in TX), and since a sentence in my post that you replied to stated, "And I'm sure as hell not some "brain washed" Bush zombie", I'll bet in one guess you can get it. oh no this is a trap, i'm baited again.:eek: The only brainwashed people are the ones voting for John Kerry. So your a John Kerry koolaid drinker, then in my book you are a liberal. Is it really that hard to admit?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by black01gt
And thank you very much for making fun of me.
I believe it's still your turn.
OK, I'll even "re-phrase" it for you, ready:
If you couldn't simply and immediately call someone that didn't agree with you a "liberal", then what other approach would you take? (if you have to decipher this question, then YOU need to learn to read)
I have news for you and numb-nuts. I'm not a liberal! Liberals are usually thoughtful, "articulated", and courtious pussies. Do I sound like one of those? And I'm damn sure not a "brain washed" Bush zombie. It has nothing to do with Republicans. I think John McCain is a strong, honest, and admirable leader, not to mention a very couragous soldier and POW, very much unlike our current....

I don't simply and immediately call someone a liberal. I was a liberal when I was younger. I became more informed and see that liberalism is based upon it's believers being ignorant or at the very least, uninformed. This is, in my opinion, why those who aspire to those thoughts spew hatred and intolerance. Like I said, I know the speak because I once spoke it.

Why would anyone allow their party, Democrats I mean, to say that "Anyone but Bush" is an ok slogan? If the Republicans said the same thing about Kerry or any other candidate I would be outraged. I could name several candidates from both parties that would be an acceptable candidate, I think it ignorant and uninformed to say "anyone but ..."

I have said it before and I will say it again, why is it such a slam for someone speaking liberal speak to be called to task for it? Please feel free to call me a conservative, a Republican, a car-nut, a traditionalist, etc. and I will answer by saying "guilty as charged." I will not get hostile for being called what I am.

BTW, wouldn't a Bush Zombie be someone who said no one except Bush? I have yet to hear any Republican say "no one but Bush." We all say please tell me you can see Kerry is not even close to Bush when it comes to being the best candidate for President.

BTW, I sincerely had no idea what your question was when first written.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 281R
here you go!:cool:

thx:)

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 281R
The only brainwashed people are the ones voting for John Kerry. So your a John Kerry koolaid drinker, then in my book you are a liberal. Is it really that hard to admit?

I have yet to have a liberal explain why being called one is so bad. You will never get a confessed liberal to explain it. If you had caught me when I was a liberal, I would have explained. Forgive for me for not being able to articulate that reasoning now that I am wiser, older, and more informed. LOL!

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
yes, I have one more thing. And why did you sign up for the military?

I signed up to serve my country the same as everyone else in my family has done, or is doing now.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
The only brainwashed people are the ones voting for John Kerry. So your a John Kerry koolaid drinker, then in my book you are a liberal. Is it really that hard to admit?
Question is...is it that important what "label" I am? Is it some kind of scoring system for "your book". Yes, I'm voting for John Kerry, deal with it! If that makes me a "liberal" for your book, then so be it. What is this koolaid drinker crap, some new hardliner buzzword you heard on Rush?
"The only brainwashed people are the ones voting for John Kerry". Sounds exactly like something a "Brainwashed" Bush zombie would say. BTW, where's your proof? No proof,..... :D

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
I signed up to serve my country the same as everyone else in my family has done, or is doing now. So it was your passion and nobody else forced you to go... right?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Question is...is it that important what "label" I am? Is it some kind of scoring system for "your book". Yes, I'm voting for John Kerry, deal with it! If that makes me a "liberal" for your book, then so be it. What is this koolaid drinker crap, some new hardliner buzzword you heard on Rush? Sounds like a John Kerry Koolaid drinker to me.. You want to know what it is? go look it up. Remember, what ever I say isnt fact with you right?
Originally posted by black01gt


"The only brainwashed people are the ones voting for John Kerry". Sounds exactly like something a "Brainwashed" Bush zombie would say. BTW, where's your proof? No proof,..... :D How about you take a little Liberal quiz?
1. How is Bush brainwashing people?
2. Why exactly are you voting for John Kerry?
a. Anybody but Bush
b. Or, he is going to do something good for the country.

If B, then what exactly positive is he going to do that Bush isnt doing and how?

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
So it was your passion and nobody else forced you to go... right?

That is correct...of course I wasn't the one on here talking about being part of the WE that is going to save the country like you were...then talking about passion as soon as someone asked you if YOU were willing to join?

You seem to be getting kind of hot about this, maybe I should just let it drop so you can go back to believing you are saving the free world by paying your taxes:rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
That is correct...of course I wasn't the one on here talking about being part of the WE that is going to save the country like you were... Incorrect sir, pleas go re-read the whole thread and point out where I said WE conservatives will save the country and you wont.... Where? Are you making assumptions? How shame on you...
Originally posted by reef93gt

You seem to be getting kind of hot about this, maybe I should just let it drop so you can go back to believing you are saving the free world by paying your taxes:rolleyes: Please dont tell me I'm getting hot when we are both behind a keyboard. Seems to me you must be the on getting hot if your willing to say Im expressing it, unless you have some examples of how you can tell?

PS: Nobody is saving the world, only Iraq and Afganistan;)

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
Incorrect sir, pleas go re-read the whole thread and point out where I said WE conservatives will save the country and you wont.... Where? Are you making assumptions? How shame on you...



I'm not going to take the time to re-read this post as well as the other one where this all started, when I pointed out if you "really" believed in what you were saying you would sign up to serve your country . So if you say you didn't you didn't it really doesn't matter to me anyway




Please dont tell me I'm getting hot when we are both behind a keyboard. Seems to me you must be the on getting hot if your willing to say Im expressing it, unless you have some examples of how you can tell?PS: Nobody is saving the world, only Iraq and Afganistan;)

Hey if you're not getting hot then so be it...of course it is kind of funny how you keep talking about "passion" and not "joining" to go support your views. And every time it is mentioned you have to go back to your "passion" defense, but hey whatever floats your boat, as for me I am out of this conversation. . But feel free to continue to explain to the rest of the board how you "internet-soldiers" who will not join to the Military are going to save America from those damn liberals by posting on here:eek: :rolleyes:

Oh yeah and I still have that recuiters numbers, not like you are ever going to use it.:rolleyes:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
[B]
a. Anybody but Bush

I knew you'd figure it out!
:D
(not interested in taking your "liberal" quiz)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
I knew you'd figure it out!
:D
(not interested in taking your "liberal" quiz) And that is why you are a koolaid drinker and a liberal;)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Hey if you're not getting hot then so be it...of course it is kind of funny how you keep talking about "passion" and not "joining" to go support your views. And every time it is mentioned you have to go back to your "passion" defense, but hey whatever floats your boat, as for me I am out of this conversation.
I go to it b/c it is what makes people sucessfull in life or not. Obviously you dont understand it.
Originally posted by reef93gt

. But feel free to continue to explain to the rest of the board how you "internet-soldiers" who will not join to the Military are going to save America from those damn liberals by posting on here:eek: :rolleyes: Still you havent show me where I said this...
Originally posted by reef93gt

Oh yeah and I still have that recuiters numbers, not like you are ever going to use it.:rolleyes: Hey, I dont need the recruiters number b/c I served and serving my country everyday. But hey, I'm sure us conservatives of DFWstangs could show you how to contact Hatem Bazian at University of California at Berkeley that could put you in touch when the next anti-war rally is ;) You ought to join in since you protest it;)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
I don't simply and immediately call someone a liberal. This is, in my opinion, why those who aspire to those thoughts spew hatred and intolerance. Like I said, I know the speak because I once spoke it.

Why would anyone allow their party, Democrats I mean, to say that "Anyone but Bush" is an ok slogan? If the Republicans said the same thing about Kerry or any other candidate I would be outraged. I could name several candidates from both parties that would be an acceptable candidate, I think it ignorant and uninformed to say "anyone but ..."

I have said it before and I will say it again, why is it such a slam for someone speaking liberal speak to be called to task for it? by saying I will not get hostile for being called what I am.

BTW, wouldn't a Bush Zombie be someone who said no one except Bush? I have yet to hear any Republican say "no one but Bush." We all say please tell me you can see Kerry is not even close to Bush when it comes to being the best candidate for President.


First, I don't consider it a slam to be called a liberal. I truly don't care what you call me, liberal, jackass, radical,but if you called me a staunch conservative hardliner tho, you would really be missing the target.
As far as spewing hatred and intolerance. I've tried to listen to the ole Rush/Hennisy/Orielly shows and can't because of the constant "spewing of hatred and intolerance", not to mention the "pissing on liberals" or "liberal hunting" logos, so please don't try to paint your party as a compassionate and "kinder gentler" one. And I'm sorry but you DO immediately call anyone on here that doesn't have the response you want a "liberal". Doesn't matter to me but that's the way it is.
Here is how I feel (long post):
Nader-Full of crap, and needs to go back to worrying about the Corvair.
Bush-Crooked, Evil, Pompous ass that has done more damage to this country in one term than 50 terrorist with 10 planes. His non-stop cronyism and catering to corporations and certain industries has seriously jeopordized the stability and moral of this nation. Ppl are worried much more than we are supposed to have to lay awake and worry about jobs, insurance we can't afford, sending our "American" kids to college, ect ect. I'm 50 BTW, and I've never seen it like this! When we need to be the most focused on REAL terrorism, he's not! (see my post about the "gunfight") I'm serious as a heartattack when I think he and Ken Lay should be cell mates in prison. Or it could be a family affair with little brother Neil (google for that guys history!), and Lay and Cheney could share a cell. Am I lefty enough for you yet? You're putting your trust in a guy that really doesn't care about you or your family!
Kerry-I don't know what he is going to do, and neither do you. Plain and simple. I know what he says he's gonna do, and that's where I'm putting my vote. I don't care to get into the platforms and all that, this post is too long now. All I know is if he wants a second term, he better do what he says, or the same will happen to him that is about to happen to Dubya!
Don't ask for proof cause this is opinion based on my "liberal mental disorder".
Adios Muchachos!

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
And that is why you are a koolaid drinker and a liberal;)
Well now, there you go hurting my feelings again. :(

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt

As far as spewing hatred and intolerance. I've tried to listen to the ole Rush/Hennisy/Orielly shows and can't because of the constant "spewing of hatred and intolerance", not to mention the "pissing on liberals" or "liberal hunting" logos, so please don't try to paint your party as a compassionate and "kinder gentler" one. You ought to try to listen to Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Al Gore, or John Kerry then, talk about a negative hatred crowd.
Originally posted by black01gt

And I'm sorry but you DO immediately call anyone on here that doesn't have the response you want a "liberal". Doesn't matter to me but that's the way it is. We call what you are, why cant you accept what you are?


Originally posted by black01gt

Bush-Crooked, Evil, Pompous ass that has done more damage to this country in one term than 50 terrorist with 10 planes. His non-stop cronyism and catering to corporations and certain industries has seriously jeopordized the stability and moral of this nation. Ppl are worried much more than we are supposed to have to lay awake and worry about jobs, insurance we can't afford, sending our "American" kids to college, ect ect. I'm 50 BTW, and I've never seen it like this! When we need to be the most focused on REAL terrorism, he's not! (see my post about the "gunfight") I'm serious as a heartattack when I think he and Ken Lay should be cell mates in prison. Or it could be a family affair with little brother Neil (google for that guys history!), and Lay and Cheney could share a cell. Am I lefty enough for you yet? You're putting your trust in a guy that really doesn't care about you or your family!
Too bad you cant back up your emotions with evidence.
Originally posted by black01gt

Kerry-I don't know what he is going to do, and neither do you. Plain and simple. I know what he says he's gonna do, and that's where I'm putting my vote. I don't care to get into the platforms and all that, this post is too long now. All I know is if he wants a second term, he better do what he says, or the same will happen to him that is about to happen to Dubya!
Don't ask for proof cause this is opinion based on my "liberal mental disorder".
Adios Muchachos! So you'd rather vote for somebody you know nothing about? I dont know how he stands cause he wont take a stand. He is usually on both sides of the issue or either contradicts himself in some way. I guess a anti-war president that would knee to the UN would be perfect for you though.:rolleyes: :p

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R

So you'd rather vote for somebody you know nothing about? I dont know how he stands cause he wont take a stand. He is usually on both sides of the issue or either contradicts himself in some way. I guess a anti-war president that would knee to the UN would be perfect for you though.:rolleyes: :p
You do make a good "internet soldier". I like that term from Reef for you. As I said I don't know how Kerry is going to perform, and no matter how smart you think you are...neither do you. I would rather go to somebody that is honest, smart enough, and without BIG CAMPAIGN OBLIGATIONS, to see how this mess shakes out and have options, rather than stay with a "leader" that has consistantly been on the wrong side of proper. But if Kerry is as deceitful and eliteist(a small group exercising power by virtue of real or claimed superiority) as Bush has been, then like I said, the same will happen to him that is about to happen to your hero. News for you 281, your chest pounding and "pissing on liberals" crap just ain't enough. There are more of me than you care to admit!
I do know how Bush has performed tho and I don't want any more of it. If you're really a patriot I can't imagine why you would either. But you deal with your own nearsightedness, and I'll contimue to struggle with my "liberal mental disorder", as you call it.:cool:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
You do make a good "internet soldier". and you make a poor internet soldier :)

Originally posted by black01gt

I like that term from Reef for you. As I said I don't know how Kerry is going to perform, and no matter how smart you think you are...neither do you. He'll perform just like a typical liberal. No other evidence suggest otherwise.
Originally posted by black01gt

I would rather go to somebody that is honest, smart enough, and without BIG CAMPAIGN OBLIGATIONS, to see how this mess shakes out and have options, rather than stay with a "leader" that has consistantly been on the wrong side of proper. LMAO, you got to be kidding me. Yes sir, you are a John Kerry Koolaid drinker. Why, is I could present to you evidence all day long that would suggest otherwise and you still would buy his lie and vote for him. Any body but Bush, right?



Originally posted by black01gt

But if Kerry is as deceitful and eliteist
an elitist? I guess thats why the dems support affirmative action? yea, they are real fair.

Originally posted by black01gt

(a small group exercising power by virtue of real or claimed superiority) as Bush has been, then like I said, the same will happen to him that is about to happen to your hero. Whats funny is Bush's poll numbers are rising and American are not as diluted as you are. People are catching on to the brainwashing liberal media.

Originally posted by black01gt

News for you 281,
It's 281R
Originally posted by black01gt

your chest pounding and "pissing on liberals" crap just ain't enough. There are more of me than you care to admit!
Yea, and a lot of you in France, too bad your not the majority.
Originally posted by black01gt

I do know how Bush has performed tho and I don't want any more of it. If you're really a patriot I can't imagine why you would either. But you deal with your own nearsightedness, and I'll contimue to struggle with my "liberal mental disorder", as you call it.:cool: Awww, did you make Bush a report card? did he perform badly for you? Well guess what? he is not out to please you, he is out to look out for this country and run it. The sad thing about you libs is that ever since Bush went into office and you lost power, you have spent more time complaining and whining than running the country. And that is what is sad.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
[B]
I could present to you evidence all day long that would suggest otherwise and you still would buy his lie and vote for him. Any body but Bush, right?






Then do it and quit talking about it!!! (no opinion. I want fact/proof/bones!!!)

"Anybody but Bush, right?"

Gee 281"R", i don't know, maybe if you go back and read my posts you'll "get a feel" for how I feel about him. Maybe not?!? :rolleyes:

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
[B]
Whats funny is Bush's poll numbers are rising
It's 281R

If Bush is doing such a great job, why is it you "conservatives" are always bragging about his "poll numbers are rising"? Why should they have to be rising, and what are they rising from? They sucked before 9-11, and now they suck again. Wonder why?!? (but they're rising-LMAO):D

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
If Bush is doing such a great job, why is it you "conservatives" are always bragging about his "poll numbers are rising"? Why should they have to be rising, and what are they rising from? They sucked before 9-11, and now they suck again. Wonder why?!? (but they're rising-LMAO):D Ok, Im am going to spin this, Why are John Kerry's diving? Are people finding out what a fruit loop he is?

Now I'll answer your question. Bush's poll numbers are getting better b/c the economy is getting better and better everyday. U gotta understand, most americans are not hatefull blindsited libs like you;)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Then do it and quit talking about it!!! (no opinion. I want fact/proof/bones!!!)

"Anybody but Bush, right?"

Gee 281"R", i don't know, maybe if you go back and read my posts you'll "get a feel" for how I feel about him. Maybe not?!? :rolleyes: Ok, you say he's honest ehh?
Lets start with this one. Please expalin this?
Honesty or Hypocrisy?
John Kerry has compared CEOs that send jobs overseas to traitor Benedict Arnold.
Yet, H J Heiz C.O. (owned by John Kerry's wife) has spread its ketchup factories all over the world. Of the 79 factories that process, 57 of them are overseas. And John Kerry himself has 4 million in stock in the company.

Honesty or Hypocrisy?

Besides the point wants polictical opponents to make their tax return open to the public, but Mrs. Heinz will not make her tax return public... Hmm, maybe illegal contributions to the Kerry Campaign? I dont know for sure, but it sounds fishy.

Please explain the first example, Honesty or Hypocrisy?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
[B]Ok, Im am going to spin this, Why are John Kerry's diving? Are people finding out what a fruit loop he is?


Oh man you are the masterful "spinner"! Carl Rove should just quit and let you take over.;)

BTW-There's a post on the thread "What is a liberal" by Slncoupe that you should see about liberals, but I really don't think you could understand it, plus it's a quote from a guy that you probably despise. But don't worry, "they" (a small group exercising power by virtue of real or claimed superiority-"just like a gang with titles and briefcases") already killed him.

[fastfordfan1]

281R, YOU ARE THE MAN!!! Somebody needs to point out to these "bleeding heart liberals" what is REALLY up with this election. Thank you for standing up with FACTS and not EMOTIONS!!!

ROCK ON DUDE!!!

GW is 2004!!!!

I know who will make me feel secure that my children have a tomorrow!!

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Ok, you say he's honest ehh?
Lets start with this one. Please expalin this?
Honesty or Hypocrisy?
John Kerry has compared CEOs that send jobs overseas to traitor Benedict Arnold.
Yet, H J Heiz C.O. (owned by John Kerry's wife) has spread its ketchup factories all over the world. Of the 79 factories that process, 57 of them are overseas. And John Kerry himself has 4 million in stock in the company.

Honesty or Hypocrisy?

Besides the point wants polictical opponents to make their tax return open to the public, but Mrs. Heinz will not make her tax return public... Hmm, maybe illegal contributions to the Kerry Campaign? I dont know for sure, but it sounds fishy.

Please explain the first example, Honesty or Hypocrisy?
If your as big on polls as you seem to be, you should know that he's not the only one bugged by too many jobs going over seas. Or opening the borders to give away jobs (and free healthcare) to immigrants. I thought we were going to tighten the borders after 9/11?
Heinz had factories over seas long before it was "cool". Of 79 plants, 57 overseas, "Heinz 57", get it?...oh well. Maybe she's smarter than your average "tycoon", and plus SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE!
Wish I had $4 million in Heinz stock, but with the new "Shocked and Awed" America, it probably ain't gonna happen.
And my final answer....HONESTY!
If I were you I wouldn't want to compare campaign contributions between Bush's Cronyism & Kerry's wife. I think this country would rather be owed to Kerry's wife (just playing your game here) than some of the people Bush has to appease! Besides, why should she show hers, if they're not showing theirs? Maybe she should run for office. I hear she's not easily pushed around.
Final answer here.....HONESTY!
now go to work you masterful "spinner" you!

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
If your as big on polls as you seem to be, you should know that he's not the only one bugged by too many jobs going over seas. Or opening the borders to give away jobs (and free healthcare) to immigrants. I thought we were going to tighten the borders after 9/11?
Heinz had factories over seas long before it was "cool". Of 79 plants, 57 overseas, "Heinz 57", get it?...oh well. Maybe she's smarter than your average "tycoon", and plus SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE!
Wish I had $4 million in Heinz stock, but with the new "Shocked and Awed" America, it probably ain't gonna happen.
And my final answer....HONESTY!
If I were you I wouldn't want to compare campaign contributions between Bush's Cronyism & Kerry's wife. I think this country would rather be owed to Kerry's wife (just playing your game here) than some of the people Bush has to appease! Besides, why should she show hers, if they're not showing theirs? Maybe she should run for office. I hear she's not easily pushed around.
Final answer here.....HONESTY!
now go to work you masterful "spinner" you! In fact, I really didnt spin. I answered your question. I guess you wouldnt know a spin if it slapped you in the face, b/c with you liberals its second nature!
So Kerry is sleeping with the enemy huh? He goes running his mouth but yet his wife is doing the same thing. How ironic...:rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Oh man you are the masterful "spinner"! Carl Rove should just quit and let you take over.;)

BTW-There's a post on the thread "What is a liberal" by Slncoupe that you should see about liberals, but I really don't think you could understand it, plus it's a quote from a guy that you probably despise. But don't worry, "they" (a small group exercising power by virtue of real or claimed superiority-"just like a gang with titles and briefcases") already killed him. Your correct! I cant understand a liberal b/c I dont have that mental disorder:p Never saw it in this thread... I thought we were talking about why we still have troops in Iraq? I guess this thread went everywhere

[black01gt]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
[B]281R, YOU ARE THE MAN!!!

ROCK ON DUDE!!!


Well dang, let's not get all "gushy" here. hmmmm.:eek:

[fastfordfan1]

Originally posted by black01gt
Well dang, let's not get all "gushy" here. hmmmm.:eek:

Gushy??? You dont even want to get me in this argument!!! You think 281R is rough on your ass?? You have seen nothing when it comes to making liberals look silly. Liberal rhetoric, WOW how in vogue!!!

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
If your as big on polls as you seem to be,
Who said I was big on polls? you! LMAO
Originally posted by black01gt

Or opening the borders to give away jobs (and free healthcare) to immigrants. Your barking up the wrong party for this one, I guess you dont remember which party is for this and handing money out to immigrants, lol
Originally posted by black01gt

I thought we were going to tighten the borders after 9/11? Ever heard of the patriot act? ever heard of homeland security? Something your hero clinton never put in place...

Originally posted by black01gt

Heinz had factories over seas long before it was "cool".
Oh, so did that make it cool? One word... HYPOCRITE
If Kerry wants to yap his yapper, then he needs to clean house before he dose it!
Originally posted by black01gt

Of 79 plants, 57 overseas, "Heinz 57", get it?...
Haha :) you made a funny
Originally posted by black01gt

oh well. Maybe she's smarter than your average "tycoon", and plus SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE!
So is Martha Stewart, but lies and deceit catch up to you
Originally posted by black01gt

Wish I had $4 million in Heinz stock, but with the new "Shocked and Awed" America, it probably ain't gonna happen.
And my final answer....HONESTY!
Yea, I wish I HONESTLY had $4mill in stock in Heiz stock too... But I guess I'd have to sleep with America's Benadict Arnold to get it.... Joke, haha :D
Originally posted by black01gt

If I were you I wouldn't want to compare campaign contributions between Bush's Cronyism & Kerry's wife. I think this country would rather be owed to Kerry's wife (just playing your game here) than some of the people Bush has to appease! Oh yea, the evil corporations huh? [Liberal Preacher]Our corporations in America are EVIL I tell ya, EVIL! [/Liberal Preacher]
Originally posted by black01gt

Besides, why should she show hers, if they're not showing theirs? Then why should her husband demand to see everyone elses if their not willing to show theirs? Someone should set the example if they want to play fair...
Originally posted by black01gt

Maybe she should run for office. I hear she's not easily pushed around.
Rich women usually are not easily pushed around, especially ones that can hold their husband by their nads because they have all the money;)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
Liberal rhetoric, WOW how in vogue!!!
Conservative rhetoric, WOW how old!!!
Bush is great, Bush is great, Bush is great...., sounds programmed.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Conservative rhetoric, WOW how old!!!
Bush is great, Bush is great, Bush is great...., sounds programmed. Im sure your just as much a critic when a Kerry supporter says Kerry is great too.... Huh?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R

So is Martha Stewart, but lies and deceit catch up to you

Sometimes, sometimes not. Why is it that that sinister Martha Stewart may go to prison, but Ken Lay is recently sitting in on "closed door" energy conference talks with Cheney etal? (you want proof, look it up yourself to prove me wrong)

But this coming November, I think your right, lies and deceit are going to catch up to your hero. But then again, maybe not. :)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt


But this coming November, I think your right, lies and deceit are going to catch up to your hero. But then again, maybe not. :) maybe your right, but then agian, the lies and deceit of your party might catch up with them;)

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Im sure your just as much a critic when a Kerry supporter says Kerry is great too.... Huh?
Not a valid question yet. I could only answer it 3 or 4 years from now. I can answer it as it pertains to Bush after 3 years. He has stunk up the country! Time to leave. Look for a job, like the rest of us. He can work for Daddy, at the goldmine. You know...I think we have seen what would happen if Dan Quayle had become Prez.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Never saw it in this thread... I thought we were talking about why we still have troops in Iraq?
Sorry! I thought a thread named "What is a liberal" would have surely caught your attention and made you turn the page. Guess not.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Not a valid question yet. Its always a valid question, especially if you are going to vote for him just b/c "anybody but Bush"Originally posted by black01gt

I could only answer it 3 or 4 years from now. I can answer it as it pertains to Bush after 3 years. He has stunk up the country! Time to leave. Look for a job, like the rest of us. He can work for Daddy, at the goldmine. You know...I think we have seen what would happen if Dan Quayle had become Prez. Ok, what ever, I am going to have to train my computer how to respond to your comments b/c you(and the rest of the libs on this board) are taking up too much of my time;)

[Fobra]

Originally posted by black01gt
Look for a job, like the rest of us. He can work for Daddy, at the goldmine. You know...I think we have seen what would happen if Dan Quayle had become Prez.

i doubt kerry has ever worked a day in his life prior to being senator. he's grown up rich, went to top schools, married rich-twice etc.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Its always a valid question, especially if you are going to vote for him just b/c "anybody but Bush" Ok, what ever, I am going to have to train my computer how to respond to your comments b/c you(and the rest of the libs on this board) are taking up too much of my time;)
"anybody but Bush" indeed!
Is it not your choice how you spend your time?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
i doubt kerry has ever worked a day in his life prior to being senator. he's grown up rich, went to top schools, married rich-twice etc.
Kerry and Bush have each grown up privileged. I'm pretty sure the days are gone where anyone not privileged is going to hold a major office in this country. That is what our democracy has evolved into, and is a sad fact. It makes those leaders unable to relate to 90% of the people, so therefore, they will (are) lean(ing) toward appeasing big money. The future (and present) will have us trapped between big money and other types who don't wish us the best.
It's not really the party, it's the character. If John McCain were our leader, I would be a Republican in a heartbeat. John McCain is a man of strong character and integrity, not to mention a fine and couragous soldier. He didn't grow up privileged, and there won't be many more like him.
I think Colin Powell is a good guy that is caught between a bunch of powerful punks for the time being.
So..your right, Kerry probably hasn't seen much hardship. Other than their military careers, there's not much difference in the privileged lives of Bush and Kerry.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
"anybody but Bush" indeed!
Is it not your choice how you spend your time? Yes, and I feel I am waisting it chating with you;)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
Kerry and Bush have each grown up privileged. I'm pretty sure the days are gone where anyone not privileged is going to hold a major office in this country. I'll agree with that
Originally posted by black01gt

That is what our democracy has evolved into, and is a sad fact. It makes those leaders unable to relate to 90% of the people, so therefore, they will (are) lean(ing) toward appeasing big money.
I dunno if I speculate that far
Originally posted by black01gt

John McCain is a man of strong character and integrity, not to mention a fine and couragous soldier.
I'll agree with that one also
Originally posted by black01gt

So..your right, Kerry probably hasn't seen much hardship. Other than their military careers, there's not much difference in the privileged lives of Bush and Kerry. Im not a vet, so I cant challenge it, but I've heard many vets speak poorly that Kerry didnt have much hardship in his 4 months in Vietnam. I tend to think I would agree with them that there probably is a lot of others in Vietnam that deserved the purple heart other than Kerry, but I dunno, thats not my place to say.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 281R
Yes, and I feel I am waisting it chating with you;)
No you don't. You wouldn't miss these little "fireside" for anything. Besides, who else would straighten out the world if you and I didn't?:D

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
No you don't. You wouldn't miss these little "fireside" for anything. Besides, who else would straighten out the world if you and I didn't?:D LOL:D , Im shootin for 6 pages before this thread ends,,, lol

[Zarathustra]

Dude, your'e such a fuckin' douche bag. Do you actually support Bush and his political ideologies, or do you just wait for someone to say something "liberal" and attack 'em for it?? Fuckin' asshat!:rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by BadLXHB302
Dude, your'e such a fuckin' douche bag. Do you actually support Bush and his political ideologies, or do you just wait for someone to say something "liberal" and attack 'em for it?? Fuckin' asshat!:rolleyes: ooohh, the insults. Your real scary:eek: Get off your computer and do something constructive instead of calling people that disagree with you douche bags and asshats. You need a better role model! so grow up...

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 281R
ooohh, the insults. Your real scary:eek: Get off your computer and do something constructive instead of calling people that disagree with you douche bags and asshats. You need a better role model! so grow up...

We shouldn't expect anything less from those who get offended when the word liberal gets used. The typical liberal can only keep up in an intelligent conversation for a few minutes before the inevitable hate and name calling comes out. Talk about finding out who a real liberal is, just ask him if they are one, if they respond by using foul language and hate, you pegged them for sure. LOL

[line-em-up]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
We shouldn't expect anything less from those who get offended when the word liberal gets used. The typical liberal can only keep up in an intelligent conversation for a few minutes before the inevitable hate and name calling comes out. Talk about finding out who a real liberal is, just ask him if they are one, if they respond by using foul language and hate, you pegged them for sure. LOL

You guys are real comedians. :rolleyes: I'm sure Jerry Seinfeld could use an opening act for his road show. :rolleyes:

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by line-em-up
You guys are real comedians. :rolleyes: I'm sure Jerry Seinfeld could use an opening act for his road show. :rolleyes: :confused:

[Bush04]

Originally posted by BadLXHB302
Seems like the U.S. military presence is absolutely unnecessary. This is bullshit. I can't seem to figure out why...:confused:

We are there to fight terrorism you moron. You liberals are stupid as hell.

[line-em-up]

Originally posted by Bush04
We are there to fight terrorism you moron. You liberals are stupid as hell.

Hmmm. I believe it was one of the right wingers on here that said that you could tell if someone was a liberal if they started calling people names whenever they couldn't make a legit argument. So, you must be a liberal trying to deceive everyone into thinking you're a conservative.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by line-em-up
Hmmm. I believe it was one of the right wingers on here that said that you could tell if someone was a liberal if they started calling people names whenever they couldn't make a legit argument. So, you must be a liberal trying to deceive everyone into thinking you're a conservative.


Who are you calling a right winger you f'ing piece of sh** liberal....uh, I mean...

LOL! (That was my attempt at humor BTW)

[HookEm]

only a minute % don't want us there....the rest are quite happy we are there...they remember Saddam.


Originally posted by Jarhead88
Have you ever been in a foreign country fighting for motherfuckers that don't even want you there, well I have and it sucks, I don't agree with our boys and girls being over there but I understand that they have orders to follow.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
:D

I am a liberal and I have fought in Iraq 91, Somalia 93 and got shot at in Bosnia 95. How many wars you fought in there "Hero"?

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
i doubt kerry has ever worked a day in his life prior to being senator. he's grown up rich, went to top schools, married rich-twice etc.

As did W. Bush who was born in New Haven, Conn. claims to be a Texan. Attended Yale for undergrad and Harvard for his graduate. Did need to marry rich everything was already handed to him.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by HookEm
only a minute % don't want us there....the rest are quite happy we are there...they remember Saddam.

Your talking out your ass there bubba. My best friend just returned from Iraq and stated they could trust no one. They constantly had to keep an eye on the Iraqi civilians to make sure they weren't pacing off the distances on the base for mortor attacks. He said he didn't go to eat after darkness fell for fear of being killed by indirect fire. Let me know if you'd like his number so you can talk to him there you hero you.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Your talking out your ass there bubba. My best friend just returned from Iraq and stated they could trust no one. They constantly had to keep an eye on the Iraqi civilians to make sure they weren't pacing off the distances on the base for mortor attacks. He said he didn't go to eat after darkness fell for fear of being killed by indirect fire. Let me know if you'd like his number so you can talk to him there you hero you.

I have to call you on this one. Just because you can't trust anyone doesn't mean all of the people in Iraq hate the troops being there. Is it possible that the people pacing off the distances for mortar attacks and such are the foreign fighters, terorists, etc? I am guessing it would be pretty stupid to trust anyone since the terrorists and foreign fighters are wearing civilian clothes. You said you were in the military, didn't you? Would you trust anyone if you were over there? Your argument that our troops don't trust anyone equating to the majority of Iraqi people not wanting us there is pretty hollow IMO.

I have even seen some reports from the mainstream liberal media (CNN, NBC, ABC,etc.) admitting that the majority of Iraqis are glad we took down Saddam and disagree that life after Saddam is worse.

[Denny]

I'm going to go vomit now...

[jyro]

please

[HookEm]

ok, what's his number?
You and your antecdotal "Arguements"....
:rolleyes:



Originally posted by Pro Trash
Your talking out your ass there bubba. My best friend just returned from Iraq and stated they could trust no one. They constantly had to keep an eye on the Iraqi civilians to make sure they weren't pacing off the distances on the base for mortor attacks. He said he didn't go to eat after darkness fell for fear of being killed by indirect fire. Let me know if you'd like his number so you can talk to him there you hero you.

[HookEm]

I've got quite a few friends that fought over there, and family, and in all the years I've known them, I can count on both hands the number of times they have collectively referenced their involvement in said war. I'm not calling you a liar, but I remember being in the high school locker room, and hearing certain people boast of all the sexual conquests they'd participated in, every freaking day, over and over.....turned out most of them were still virgins. Yet the ones who kept their mouth shut, were hittin stuff right and left.



Originally posted by Pro Trash
I am a liberal and I have fought in Iraq 91, Somalia 93 and got shot at in Bosnia 95. How many wars you fought in there "Hero"?

[HookEm]

Actually, W was involved in several business failures, before finding his niche. Did he flip burgers? No, but most people with MBAs from Harvard don't.......



Originally posted by Pro Trash
As did W. Bush who was born in New Haven, Conn. claims to be a Texan. Attended Yale for undergrad and Harvard for his graduate. Did need to marry rich everything was already handed to him.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Your talking out your ass there bubba. My best friend just returned from Iraq and stated they could trust no one. They constantly had to keep an eye on the Iraqi civilians to make sure they weren't pacing off the distances on the base for mortor attacks. He said he didn't go to eat after darkness fell for fear of being killed by indirect fire. Let me know if you'd like his number so you can talk to him there you hero you. is he in the American or French Army?:confused:

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by HookEm
ok, what's his number?
You and your antecdotal "Arguements"....
:rolleyes:
]

Call me my name Travis Waddell 214-498-3571 and I'll give you his number. You ask him about trusting the Iraqi's. Denny I appreciate your service to our country and especially your service in Iraq. My friends are from the 4th Infantry Division out of Fort Hood, Texas and were on the ground roaming the streets of Iraq. I am not trying to take anything away from you but there is big difference in your opinion and that of someone else there. Everyone views things differently and the compound my friend Mike was on was hit mtih motar fire nightly, his opinion reflects that.

[KJ94GT]

Quick impression:
"I'm Travis Waddel, and I was in the military so I know better than you." FYI, there are a lot of veterans on this site, but I haven't seen anyone else flaunt it quite like you.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by KJ94GT
Quick impression:
"I'm Travis Waddel, and I was in the military so I know better than you." FYI, there are a lot of veterans on this site, but I haven't seen anyone else flaunt it quite like you.

Yep I am a pride consumed mother fucker at times. The units I served in kinda made us all that way at times. This site just has the ability to bring out my cockiest attitude sometimes. You got my number, call if you have any other problems.

[HookEm]

Hey, lib.....
This isn't THAT kind of board....why not try www.gay_married_and_looking_in_dallas.com or some such for THAT type of call.......




Originally posted by Pro Trash
Yep I am a pride consumed mother fucker at times. The units I served in kinda made us all that way at times. This site just has the ability to bring out my cockiest attitude sometimes. You got my number, call if you have any other problems.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by HookEm
Hey, lib.....
This isn't THAT kind of board....why not try www.gay_married_and_looking_in_dallas.com or some such for THAT type of call.......

LMAO that was good, you new name is Prison Bitch.

[HookEm]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
LMAO that was good, you new name is Prison Bitch.

You can grab that moniker in about....785 posts.
I'll have to pass that one up.

[KJ94GT]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Yep I am a pride consumed mother fucker at times. The units I served in kinda made us all that way at times. This site just has the ability to bring out my cockiest attitude sometimes. You got my number, call if you have any other problems.
Why would I want to call you? lol
All I'm saying is there are a lot more veterans on here than you know. Myself included. But, you don't see us spouting off like our shit doesn't stink, do you?

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by KJ94GT
Why would I want to call you? lol
All I'm saying is there are a lot more veterans on here than you know. Myself included. But, you don't see us spouting off like our shit doesn't stink, do you?

Everybody's shit stinks but they only smell it when you through it at them. Call, don't call, I could care less. It's just when people do call that I do not like I get to tell them to fuck off more personally.

[HookEm]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Everybody's shit stinks but they only smell it when you through it at them. Call, don't call, I could care less. It's just when people do call that I do not like I get to tell them to fuck off more personally.

And this is allegedly teaching the "utes" of America......

[Denny]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Call me my name Travis Waddell 214-498-3571 and I'll give you his number. You ask him about trusting the Iraqi's. Denny I appreciate your service to our country and especially your service in Iraq. My friends are from the 4th Infantry Division out of Fort Hood, Texas and were on the ground roaming the streets of Iraq. I am not trying to take anything away from you but there is big difference in your opinion and that of someone else there. Everyone views things differently and the compound my friend Mike was on was hit mtih motar fire nightly, his opinion reflects that.

I've had to hang out in a bunker from mortar attacks too, but you gotta realize that the 10% of resistance that Rumsfeldt keeps talking about is actually less than that. If we were to leave, these poor people would be overrun by those insurgens. That just ain't cool. I've been to 5 camps out here and have yet to meet someone with the coallition forces actually have a negative attitude towards our involvement. Some don't like the situation, but we know that we're bettering the lives of millions. It might be about oil or politics for some, but the people who are out here are out here for something else (with or without the support from the people we expect it from).

On another note, my older brother is 4th ID too, small world.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by KJ94GT
Quick impression:
"I'm Travis Waddel, and I was in the military so I know better than you." FYI, there are a lot of veterans on this site, but I haven't seen anyone else flaunt it quite like you.

I was thinking the same thing. Very funny!

[KJ94GT]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Everybody's shit stinks but they only smell it when you through it at them. Call, don't call, I could care less. It's just when people do call that I do not like I get to tell them to fuck off more personally.
Wow, you seem like an educated guy. :rolleyes:
You must make your family proud.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by KJ94GT
Wow, you seem like an educated guy. :rolleyes:
You must make your family proud.

Okay this argument has gotten way out in left field. So let
's stop tossing insults and please tell me why we are in Iraq and if it is so correct why you aren't running to join the cause. I lived in that theatre of operation several times through my military tenure. In 90-91 then 92 and again in 94. The problem inherent with trying to reform their society is it is not as open to Western ideals as other countries we have operated in recently. You see Iraq has not been open to democracy in more than 30 years. So aside from the first question of why aren't all the hard core conservatives running to join the war? The next question is why is it America's responsiblity to re-organize that country while putting our own troops in harms way?

[Denny]

Last time I checked, everyone that's currently in Iraq volunteered... be it with the military, or contractors. So, don't worry about us being in "harm's way." I just can't believe any opposition about this operation being anything other than political side-taking or just a reason to argue. We were over here in the early 90's for other purposes than what is currently the goal.

This whole country died after Desert Storm. The military bases are cluttered with Migs that haven't flown in 14 years, sewage systems that haven't run in years, waste that has been piled, etc...

And those are just the bases; Saddam's pride and joy!

Just imagine the rest of the country. My only complaint is that something wasn't done earlier.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by Denny
Last time I checked, everyone that's currently in Iraq volunteered... be it with the military, or contractors. So, don't worry about us being in "harm's way." I just can't believe any opposition about this operation being anything other than political side-taking or just a reason to argue. We were over here in the early 90's for other purposes than what is currently the goal.

This whole country died after Desert Storm. The military bases are cluttered with Migs that haven't flown in 14 years, sewage systems that haven't run in years, waste that has been piled, etc...

And those are just the bases; Saddam's pride and joy!

Just imagine the rest of the country. My only complaint is that something wasn't done earlier.

Well that is your opinion, my opinion is different. I don't believe for one second this war was fought over humanatarian reasons. If that was the case we would have long ago went after Korea who has been starving their people and also ignored Bush on weapons of mass destruction. There are dozens of countries laying in ruin all over the world. I remember when we redeployed from Somalia, Africa in 1993 we left it in shambles. We have never returned to fix their economy or even provide humanitarian relief.

I respect your opinion and think it is valid but in the end our opinions are just that. I have been where you are and look back now think a lot differently than I did then. I would not expect you to think any other way than you do, otherwise you wouldn't belong doing what you do.

Also the "us" you are talking about doesn't just apply to you. I have friends that I went through basic training, AIT, jump school and the Desert Storm with, that are over there now. I have known some of them for more than 10 years. I know their wives and kids, my kid plays with their kids. It is hell for family members. I worry daily about them and pray daily for their return just as I will continue to pray for you.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Well that is your opinion, my opinion is different. I don't believe for one second this war was fought over humanatarian reasons. If that was the case we would have long ago went after Korea who has been starving their people and also ignored Bush on weapons of mass destruction. There are dozens of countries laying in ruin all over the world. I remember when we redeployed from Somalia, Africa in 1993 we left it in shambles. We have never returned to fix their economy or even provide humanitarian relief.

I respect your opinion and think it is valid but in the end our opinions are just that. I have been where you are and look back now think a lot differently than I did then. I would not expect you to think any other way than you do, otherwise you wouldn't belong doing what you do.

Also the "us" you are talking about doesn't just apply to you. I have friends that I went through basic training, AIT, jump school and the Desert Storm with, that are over there now. I have known some of them for more than 10 years. I know their wives and kids, my kid plays with their kids. It is hell for family members. I worry daily about them and pray daily for their return just as I will continue to pray for you.

Of course it is hell having someone in the military deployed to a foreign country, but remember, they are all volunteers. They are doing their duty. Since when is doing a job or duty that is difficult justify not doing the duty? Sounds like it is a good thing you got out of the military frankly.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Of course it is hell having someone in the military deployed to a foreign country, but remember, they are all volunteers. They are doing their duty. Since when is doing a job or duty that is difficult justify not doing the duty? Sounds like it is a good thing you got out of the military frankly.

What part of my thread mentioned anything about not performing one's duty? Do not in any way pretend to say I was insinuating anyone has not or should not do his or her duty.

Also if I were still in the military, I would gladly go to Iraq because President Bush whom would be my Commander and Chief ordered me to do so. I would carry out my orders and enforce those orders to my subordinates under the authority of article 91 of the UCMJ. I never allowed my troops to question the orders from above that were within reason nor did I question them. When I did have a question about orders I used the chain of command.

I am now a civilian, no longer under the command of the President and as a citizen and a voter I can question him and his directives. He is a public servant and has to answer to us the citizens of this nation when he makes decisions that affect our country. After all the government according to John Locke rests on popular consent. The Declaration of Independence is based on John Locke's theory, the founder fathers mainly Thomas Jefferson used this to write the Declaration. Popular consent for the war effort recently fell below 50% approval following the prisoner scandal. I am fully aware Bush did not condone those acts and has apologized but it still hurts the efforts and deters support for the war. This in no way relects troop support. We all love and wish our troops safe duty and return. Have I made myself clear enough or do I need to burn it on to a chunk of wood and mail it to you?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
What part of my thread mentioned anything about not performing one's duty? Do not in any way pretend to say I was insinuating anyone has not or should not do his or her duty.

Also if I were still in the military, I would gladly go to Iraq because President Bush whom would be my Commander and Chief ordered me to do so. I would carry out my orders and enforce those orders to my subordinates under the authority of article 91 of the UCMJ. I never allowed my troops to question the orders from above that were within reason nor did I question them. When I did have a question about orders I used the chain of command.

I am now a civilian, no longer under the command of the President and as a citizen and a voter I can question him and his directives. He is a public servant and has to answer to us the citizens of this nation when he makes decisions that affect our country. After all the government according to John Locke rests on popular consent. The Declaration of Independence is based on John Locke's theory, the founder fathers mainly Thomas Jefferson used this to write the Declaration. Popular consent for the war effort recently fell below 50% approval following the prisoner scandal. I am fully aware Bush did not condone those acts and has apologized but it still hurts the efforts and deters support for the war. This in no way relects troop support. We all love and wish our troops safe duty and return. Have I made myself clear enough or do I need to burn it on to a chunk of wood and mail it to you?

OK, I tend to agree with you now that you have backed away from the Bush hating rhetoric. I actually hold Bush accountable for the war in Iraq. I just fail to see that the indecisive, truth deficient, war protesting, SUV driving, liberal John kerry is going to do a better job.

I base that on several things, that tape of him spitting out venom at republicans, his first denial and then retraction that he owned SUV's. and the 20 years of voting on both sides of very isuue before him in Congress.

"I voted for the funding before I voted against it". //Insert sarcasm//Yeah, sounds like the words of a guy that can be trusted to make decisions on my behalf. //Insert sarcasm//

[AL P]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
OK, I tend to agree with you now that you have backed away from the Bush hating rhetoric. I actually hold Bush accountable for the war in Iraq. I just fail to see that the indecisive, truth deficient, war protesting, SUV driving, liberal John kerry is going to do a better job.

I base that on several things, that tape of him spitting out venom at republicans, his first denial and then retraction that he owned SUV's. and the 20 years of voting on both sides of very isuue before him in Congress.

"I voted for the funding before I voted against it". //Insert sarcasm//Yeah, sounds like the words of a guy that can be trusted to make decisions on my behalf. //Insert sarcasm//

Not to mention the fact that IF Kerry is elected, its not like this war is going to go away overnight. That point seems lost on a lot of people who are stuck on this "conspiracy theory" that the war is for big oil and for the benefit of the big political players in Washington. If that is true and Kerry is elected that won't change, those people will still be there and Kerry will go right along with it because he is a crooked politician just like every other politician in that town.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
OK, I tend to agree with you now that you have backed away from the Bush hating rhetoric. I actually hold Bush accountable for the war in Iraq. I just fail to see that the indecisive, truth deficient, war protesting, SUV driving, liberal John kerry is going to do a better job.

I base that on several things, that tape of him spitting out venom at republicans, his first denial and then retraction that he owned SUV's. and the 20 years of voting on both sides of very isuue before him in Congress.

"I voted for the funding before I voted against it". //Insert sarcasm//Yeah, sounds like the words of a guy that can be trusted to make decisions on my behalf. //Insert sarcasm//

My jury is still out on Kerry and unles Bush does somehting to sway me he is on the ropes as well. I fully understand Kerry is not the pick of the litter but he is running and I at least need to see what he has to offer. I can honestly say I wish Dean or edwards was running instead but the North started the primaries ball to rolling and here is where we democrats are.

[HookEm]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
I can honestly say I wish Dean or edwards was running instead but the North started the primaries ball to rolling and here is where we democrats are.



Yes, because Dean is very conservative.......
You claim to be a Southern Democrat, but you want someone left of KErry???????

WTF?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
My jury is still out on Kerry and unles Bush does somehting to sway me he is on the ropes as well. What does Bush need to do to sway you from voting for someone (Kerry) who sways both ways?

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by HookEm
Yes, because Dean is very conservative.......
You claim to be a Southern Democrat, but you want someone left of KErry???????

WTF?

Is there a democrat that you can think of you would vote for?

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by 281R
What does Bush need to do to sway you from voting for someone (Kerry) who sways both ways?

Stop with all the tax cuts, prevent jobs from going overseas, seriously reform the no child left behind act, either give the soldiers everything they need in Iraq to stop hostilities or pull them out. Work out a plan to help better stabilize this economy and decrease the unemployment rate. Come up with an idea to re-establish a good relationship on the global front.

[HookEm]

There have been a few TX Democrats that i have CONSIDERED voting for, but to date, have not done so...I might have in a State office election in the early 90s, but I'm not sure. From a Federal standpoint, there is no way in hell I'd vote for a Democratic Rep. or Senator...when they get to the Hill, they just adopt party politics, and the party that most closely resembles my beliefs is the GOP.

You keep saying you have all these right leaning beliefs (the core definition of Southern Democrats) yet you keep veering further to the left......I don't get it.


Originally posted by Pro Trash
Is there a democrat that you can think of you would vote for?

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Stop with all the tax cuts, Screw that!
Originally posted by Pro Trash

prevent jobs from going overseas,
Not even John Kerry can do that, it is impossible unless you want to further restrict or take away free enterprise.
Originally posted by Pro Trash

seriously reform the no child left behind act,
A lot of things need to be reformed
Originally posted by Pro Trash

either give the soldiers everything they need in Iraq
At least he didnt vote for it, before he voted against it ;)
Originally posted by Pro Trash

to stop hostilities or pull them out.
I believe its in the works
Originally posted by Pro Trash

Work out a plan to help better stabilize this economy and decrease the unemployment rate. Me personally rather it grow, not just stablize. But I thought growing is what it was doing :confused: and I thought unemployment was down also, or at least the facts I saw said that.
Originally posted by Pro Trash

Come up with an idea to re-establish a good relationship on the global front. Isnt that why he went to the UN and allies first before going to Iraq without compromising our war against terrorism :confused:

Sounds like he done more for your vote than you think;)

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by HookEm
There have been a few TX Democrats that i have CONSIDERED voting for, but to date, have not done so...I might have in a State office election in the early 90s, but I'm not sure. From a Federal standpoint, there is no way in hell I'd vote for a Democratic Rep. or Senator...when they get to the Hill, they just adopt party politics, and the party that most closely resembles my beliefs is the GOP.

You keep saying you have all these right leaning beliefs (the core definition of Southern Democrats) yet you keep veering further to the left......I don't get it.

Then don't ask me to sway on the Federal front when it comes to my party. I have no problem with you voting for Bush you are an American vote however you want. It seems you can't accept anyone would vote for any party but yours. I guess in 2000 that over half the americans that voted were wrong and you were more correct.

As a Southern Democrats I believe in increasing jobs, improving schools and strengthening the military of our country. I support common sense solutions for a better society here where I live and a better America. I think women should have the choice when it comes to abortion; however, I do not care for it. I care less for the Government telling someone what they can with their body. I am an avid gun owner but feel the restrictions currently in place are okay. That's where quite a few Americans stand, as well.


I send my elected officials to vote the interests of our local communities and states, not to vote for special interests and a narrow party line. The upside of that philosophy is that different representatives might have some different ideas based on the needs and interests of their home districts and states. I encourage you to check out the ideas of your local democratic representatives and candidates.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Then don't ask me to sway on the Federal front when it comes to my party. I have no problem with you voting for Bush you are an American vote however you want. It seems you can't accept anyone would vote for any party but yours. I guess in 2000 that over half the americans that voted were wrong and you were more correct.

As a Southern Democrats I believe in increasing jobs, improving schools and strengthening the military of our country. I support common sense solutions for a better society here where I live and a better America. I think women should have the choice when it comes to abortion; however, I do not care for it. I care less for the Government telling someone what they can with their body. I am an avid gun owner but feel the restrictions currently in place are okay. That's where quite a few Americans stand, as well.


I send my elected officials to vote the interests of our local communities and states, not to vote for special interests and a narrow party line. The upside of that philosophy is that different representatives might have some different ideas based on the needs and interests of their home districts and states. I encourage you to check out the ideas of your local democratic representatives and candidates.

I don't want to slam on you personally, but this is the problem with the democratic party, north or south. I want women to have achoice, but I personally don't like it. I support jobs, supporting education, and increasing the military, but the party doesn't do anything to support those ideals. The policies of giving entitlements without responsibility, taxing to solve problems as an economic policy are all contradictory to the spoken philosophies.

I also love a democrat accusing a republican of being intolerant of anothers viewpoint, talk about pot calling the kettle black. LOL

This ideal that you can support philosophies personally and then go the other way when it comes to political party is the epitome of hypocrisy. Can't you see that?

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by 281R
Screw that!
Not even John Kerry can do that, it is impossible unless you want to further restrict or take away free enterprise.
A lot of things need to be reformed
At least he didnt vote for it, before he voted against it ;)
I believe its in the works
Me personally rather it grow, not just stablize. But I thought growing is what it was doing :confused: and I thought unemployment was down also, or at least the facts I saw said that.
Isnt that why he went to the UN and allies first before going to Iraq without compromising our war against terrorism :confused:

Sounds like he done more for your vote than you think;)

Recent articles posted at USA Daily, World Net Daily, and other news outlets have been highlighting the dangerous and growing corporate trend of out-sourcing -- or "off-shoring -- U.S. jobs. In the last few years, over 1.3 million American workers have been displaced by foreign workers with L-1, H-1B or similar visa permits inside the U.S., or have lost their jobs to replacements in overseas work sites in India and elsewhere, where labor costs are cheaper. It is estimated that in the next 15 years, another 3.3 million white-collar jobs will be lost to foreigners. The blame for this massive job loss can be squarely placed on U.S. corporations like Microsoft, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Ernst & Young, General Electric, American Express, Citibank, and dozens of other companies, as well as our elected officials in government who have yet to take action to stop this economic disaster.


You are confused the unemployment rate has held steady at 5.6 to 5.7 percent since December according to the US Department of Labor.

That was a weak response about giving our troops what they need to win. This is not about anyone but the current Commander and Chief, he needs to lay a better course of action with a clearer ending in sight. He also needs to insure our people are trained when they deploy. Rumsfeld was told by Gen. Shenseki that the US was beginning the war without enough troops in the region. He compared it to Storm and commented on the 450,000 coalition forces we had then. He went on to recommend that the US employ several hundred thousands troops. Rumsfeld down played those numbers and now look where we are.

You are correct in that Bush went to the UN, you failed to mention that he just blew them off when they would not back his ideas.

So he has let the economy backslide since the last administration, has us fighting wars on two fronts. One I agree with the other I do not.

He hasn't convinced me to vote for him. He seems to be somewhat of a maverick. That is good if your Tom Cruise but not when your the leader of the greatest nation in the world.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Recent articles posted at USA Daily, World Net Daily, and other news outlets have been highlighting the dangerous and growing corporate trend of out-sourcing -- or "off-shoring -- U.S. jobs. In the last few years, over 1.3 million American workers have been displaced by foreign workers with L-1, H-1B or similar visa permits inside the U.S., or have lost their jobs to replacements in overseas work sites in India and elsewhere, where labor costs are cheaper. It is estimated that in the next 15 years, another 3.3 million white-collar jobs will be lost to foreigners. The blame for this massive job loss can be squarely placed on U.S. corporations like Microsoft, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Ernst & Young, General Electric, American Express, Citibank, and dozens of other companies, as well as our elected officials in government who have yet to take action to stop this economic disaster.


You are confused the unemployment rate has held steady at 5.6 to 5.7 percent since December according to the US Department of Labor.

That was a weak response about giving our troops what they need to win. This is not about anyone but the current Commander and Chief, he needs to lay a better course of action with a clearer ending in sight. He also needs to insure our people are trained when they deploy. Rumsfeld was told by Gen. Shenseki that the US was beginning the war without enough troops in the region. He compared it to Storm and commented on the 450,000 coalition forces we had then. He went on to recommend that the US employ several hundred thousands troops. Rumsfeld down played those numbers and now look where we are.

You are correct in that Bush went to the UN, you failed to mention that he just blew them off when they would not back his ideas.

So he has let the economy backslide since the last administration, has us fighting wars on two fronts. One I agree with the other I do not.

He hasn't convinced me to vote for him. He seems to be somewhat of a maverick. That is good if your Tom Cruise but not when your the leader of the greatest nation in the world.

I will make three easy points on your comments. First, why doesn't Kerry try and influence the Heinz Corporation, taking personal responsibility for the outsourcing of jobs, if he thinks it is such a problem and Bush is responsible for it. If he can't influence them personally, why not speak out that what they are doing is wrong when Heinz does it? Will he call out Heinz for outsourcing if he becomes president and chastises companies for doing it also? I know the answer, what do you think?

As far as Bush going to the UN and then doing blowing them off. Please articulate what policies that had been in effect for the 8 years of Clinton that were somehow going to work all of a sudden?

You blame Bush solely for the economy "backsliding" from Clinton? Don't you think the corporate scandals, all on Clinotns watch, 9/11, and the war on terror had something to do with the economy? I read in the Saturday Star-Telegram, a real conservative publication LOL, that "leading economists" predict that the lost jobs will be recovered by the election. Yeah, those terrible economic policies that have salvaged our economy from near ruin from the above events are pretty bad, huh?

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
I will make three easy points on your comments. First, why doesn't Kerry try and influence the Heinz Corporation, taking personal responsibility for the outsourcing of jobs, if he thinks it is such a problem and Bush is responsible for it. If he can't influence them personally, why not speak out that what they are doing is wrong when Heinz does it? Will he call out Heinz for outsourcing if he becomes president and chastises companies for doing it also? I know the answer, what do you think?

As far as Bush going to the UN and then doing blowing them off. Please articulate what policies that had been in effect for the 8 years of Clinton that were somehow going to work all of a sudden?

You blame Bush solely for the economy "backsliding" from Clinton? Don't you think the corporate scandals, all on Clinotns watch, 9/11, and the war on terror had something to do with the economy? I read in the Saturday Star-Telegram, a real conservative publication LOL, that "leading economists" predict that the lost jobs will be recovered by the election. Yeah, those terrible economic policies that have salvaged our economy from near ruin from the above events are pretty bad, huh?

I understand you hid behind blaming Kerry for the oursourcing of 3.5 million jobs. The Hienz corporation has little to do with that huge of a number and you know that. You are side stepping that arguement but I'll let it pass.

Bush did not have UN backing when he invaded Iraq. Heck even Saudi Arabia a close allie of ours in the 90's refused to let Bush invade Iraq from their country. Turkey followed suite also. They are fellow members of the UN. I was glad we invaded Iraq in some ways but we must take UN members into account when making decisions that affect the world and especially them.

Yes I do hold Bush accountable, he's in charge isn't he? You don't get to say I'm leading but that is not my fault. No one let Clinton have a break on anything, he was always held accountable even for things he didn't start. Can you say Somalia 1993. He inhereted that train wreck. He was also blamed for the end result. I remember blaming him because the Secretary of Defense at the time denied us armored vehicles when requested. Bush has been given the charge of our country. He should be held accountable for 9/11 in some ways because it happened on his watch. His actions following 9/11 up until Iraq had swayed even his biggest critics. You can't have your cake and eat too, all the time.

[HookEm]

Why not just drop the pretense, and say anyone but Bush?
You've now blamed 9/11 on Bush, as well as compared the liberation of Iraq, to Hitler's desire for world domination.

You whine about "conservative rags" such as World Net Daily, then you turn around and cite them to back up one of your claims.

You and Kerry are cut from the same cloth.



Originally posted by Pro Trash
I understand you hid behind blaming Kerry for the oursourcing of 3.5 million jobs. The Hienz corporation has little to do with that huge of a number and you know that. You are side stepping that arguement but I'll let it pass.

Bush did not have UN backing when he invaded Iraq. Heck even Saudi Arabia a close allie of ours in the 90's refused to let Bush invade Iraq from their country. Turkey followed suite also. They are fellow members of the UN. I was glad we invaded Iraq in some ways but we must take UN members into account when making decisions that affect the world and especially them.

Yes I do hold Bush accountable, he's in charge isn't he? You don't get to say I'm leading but that is not my fault. No one let Clinton have a break on anything, he was always held accountable even for things he didn't start. Can you say Somalia 1993. He inhereted that train wreck. He was also blamed for the end result. I remember blaming him because the Secretary of Defense at the time denied us armored vehicles when requested. Bush has been given the charge of our country. He should be held accountable for 9/11 in some ways because it happened on his watch. His actions following 9/11 up until Iraq had swayed even his biggest critics. You can't have your cake and eat too, all the time.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by HookEm
Why not just drop the pretense, and say anyone but Bush?
You've now blamed 9/11 on Bush, as well as compared the liberation of Iraq, to Hitler's desire for world domination.

You whine about "conservative rags" such as World Net Daily, then you turn around and cite them to back up one of your claims.

You and Kerry are cut from the same cloth.

Is that all you could come up with. Hack em I was epecting more from you. You and I both know any President is held accountable for happens on his watch, period.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
I understand you hid behind blaming Kerry for the oursourcing of 3.5 million jobs. The Hienz corporation has little to do with that huge of a number and you know that. You are side stepping that arguement but I'll let it pass.

Bush did not have UN backing when he invaded Iraq. Heck even Saudi Arabia a close allie of ours in the 90's refused to let Bush invade Iraq from their country. Turkey followed suite also. They are fellow members of the UN. I was glad we invaded Iraq in some ways but we must take UN members into account when making decisions that affect the world and especially them.

Yes I do hold Bush accountable, he's in charge isn't he? You don't get to say I'm leading but that is not my fault. No one let Clinton have a break on anything, he was always held accountable even for things he didn't start. Can you say Somalia 1993. He inhereted that train wreck. He was also blamed for the end result. I remember blaming him because the Secretary of Defense at the time denied us armored vehicles when requested. Bush has been given the charge of our country. He should be held accountable for 9/11 in some ways because it happened on his watch. His actions following 9/11 up until Iraq had swayed even his biggest critics. You can't have your cake and eat too, all the time.

I won't let your avoiding my point on the Heinz issue slide, just because you don't like the issue. Kerry is a hypocrite, plain and simple, if he blames Bush for outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries while his wifes family corporation is outsourcing jobs just like alot of companies. He can either try and influence them to stop (the high road) or he can publicly express his outrage at their actions and condemn it (also a high road, albeit not as high) or he can criticize Bush for something his wifes family company is also doing and say nothing about it.(Which is exactly what he is doing) Hypocrisy clear and simple.

Why would the most powerful nation in the world bow to the almighty UN when they did nothing to stop the people who attacked us on our own soil? I would have found Bush derelict in his duties to protect us if he had not gone on the war on terror. I would have said go it alone if we had had to. Instead, we have a coalition of countries going with us even though the UN wouldn't help. To me. blaming Bush for going around the inept UN is not an insult, in fact it is one of his examples of great leadership. Doing what is right in spite of popular pressure.

I hold Clinton responsible for his inaction to the 1993 WTC bombing, his inaction to intelligence pointing to Bin laden for responsibility for the attack in Somalia, and for inaction after the attack on the USS Cole. I also hold Clinton responsible for the decline in the economy for the last 3 quarters of his term. The economy was in decline before Bush, and then 9/11 happened, also partly Clintons fault for his inaction in the above cases, and there you have Bush having to recover from all that. I say his policies have kept us from total ruin in the face of great economic peril. He is partly responsible for the 8 months before 9/11, and totlaly responsible for his actions after. I say he has responded with dignity, character, integrity, and leadership.

Even though Clinton is and was an easy target, Bush never tried to deflect responsibility on him.

[Pro Trash]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
I won't let your avoiding my point on the Heinz issue slide, just because you don't like the issue. Kerry is a hypocrite, plain and simple, if he blames Bush for outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries while his wifes family corporation is outsourcing jobs just like alot of companies. He can either try and influence them to stop (the high road) or he can publicly express his outrage at their actions and condemn it (also a high road, albeit not as high) or he can criticize Bush for something his wifes family company is also doing and say nothing about it.(Which is exactly what he is doing) Hypocrisy clear and simple.

Why would the most powerful nation in the world bow to the almighty UN when they did nothing to stop the people who attacked us on our own soil? I would have found Bush derelict in his duties to protect us if he had not gone on the war on terror. I would have said go it alone if we had had to. Instead, we have a coalition of countries going with us even though the UN wouldn't help. To me. blaming Bush for going around the inept UN is not an insult, in fact it is one of his examples of great leadership. Doing what is right in spite of popular pressure.

I hold Clinton responsible for his inaction to the 1993 WTC bombing, his inaction to intelligence pointing to Bin laden for responsibility for the attack in Somalia, and for inaction after the attack on the USS Cole. I also hold Clinton responsible for the decline in the economy for the last 3 quarters of his term. The economy was in decline before Bush, and then 9/11 happened, also partly Clintons fault for his inaction in the above cases, and there you have Bush having to recover from all that. I say his policies have kept us from total ruin in the face of great economic peril. He is partly responsible for the 8 months before 9/11, and totlaly responsible for his actions after. I say he has responded with dignity, character, integrity, and leadership.

Even though Clinton is and was an easy target, Bush never tried to deflect responsibility on him.

Kerry hasn't spoken out about Bush out-sourcing that is a complaint made by some liberals in the Senate and House Keep talking your making sounds I just don't think they make any sense.

Also spare me the joining of the War on Terrorism and joining it with Iraq. We started fighting terrorism in Afghanistan. We went after WMD in Iraq found jack shit then the Bush administration declares a war on terrorism there. Hello who's the dumbass. Anyone who's watched the news and Israel's problems understands what happens when christians go into a Muslim state. The start screaming Holly War, become excited about blowing themselves up and believe in death as a great thing. We as westerners and do not share these beliefs, so it is hard to fight a guerilla war with conventional forces. His actions following 9-11 were great, the best that could be asked for, period. The Iraq war has been a train wreck the two are seperate fights.

[HookEm]

So, now they didn't hate us BEFORE we liberated Iraq from So Damn Insane? Did ya forget 9/11 was BEFORE we booted Saddam out?
Miss the USS Cole?
Bombing of the barracks in Saudi?
First WTC bombing???

Funny pattern there....lots of "hits" on Clinton's Watch, but since Bush slammed his 12 incher on the table after 9/11, I don't recall a whole lot of retaliation.


Originally posted by Pro Trash
Kerry hasn't spoken out about Bush out-sourcing that is a complaint made by some liberals in the Senate and House Keep talking your making sounds I just don't think they make any sense.

Also spare me the joining of the War on Terrorism and joining it with Iraq. We started fighting terrorism in Afghanistan. We went after WMD in Iraq found jack shit then the Bush administration declares a war on terrorism there. Hello who's the dumbass. Anyone who's watched the news and Israel's problems understands what happens when christians go into a Muslim state. The start screaming Holly War, become excited about blowing themselves up and believe in death as a great thing. We as westerners and do not share these beliefs, so it is hard to fight a guerilla war with conventional forces. His actions following 9-11 were great, the best that could be asked for, period. The Iraq war has been a train wreck the two are seperate fights.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Pro Trash
Kerry hasn't spoken out about Bush out-sourcing that is a complaint made by some liberals in the Senate and House Keep talking your making sounds I just don't think they make any sense.

Also spare me the joining of the War on Terrorism and joining it with Iraq. We started fighting terrorism in Afghanistan. We went after WMD in Iraq found jack shit then the Bush administration declares a war on terrorism there. Hello who's the dumbass. Anyone who's watched the news and Israel's problems understands what happens when christians go into a Muslim state. The start screaming Holly War, become excited about blowing themselves up and believe in death as a great thing. We as westerners and do not share these beliefs, so it is hard to fight a guerilla war with conventional forces. His actions following 9-11 were great, the best that could be asked for, period. The Iraq war has been a train wreck the two are seperate fights.

OK, I don't have a quote from Kerry about outsourcing, so I ask you then, since you brought it up. Do you think it is hypocritical for the democrats to speak about outsourcing of jobs when Kerry, the democratc candidate, is directly connected to a company that has outsourced jobs?

I disagree with you that Iraq was all about WMD. It was also about terrorism. I find it funny that those radical muslims you refer to have been silent so far on our ground and against Americans outside Iraq. Hmmmm, seems like Bush is doing a pretty good job, doesn't it? It was sure alot different when they could attack at will at Americans all over the world during Clintons term, wasn't it?

I understand enough about radical muslims after watching the second plane fly into the WTC while I was putting on a tie for my mothers funeral. It changed my life and I have not forgotten that feeling. I wonder if you have.

Dude, your grammar and punctuation have gone to hell and you have started the insults again. I guess when you get defensive you fall back on your liberal reflexes, huh? Or you were posting while you were drunk, either way, I enjoy getting under your skin.