The hypocritical Dem's leadership

[Fobra]

You would think by what the below mentioned people are
saying today, they suffer from Alzheimer's. However,
with the partisan heckler like Carl Levin trouncing Pres
Bush yesterday on this issue of supposedly lying about
WMD, I thought it comical and pathetic. I thought it's
appropriate to show what Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly,
other responsible conservatives and independents, and
other centrist democrats like Zel Miller call the
hypocritical left of the Democratic Party. Clearly,
these hypocrites speak with Bush bashing comments NOW
because of only one thing- Bush is not a democrat. They
are still seething mad about the 2000 elections. Their
hypocritical ways are so clear. I can guarantee you if
Gore was elected and we did the same thing in Iraq, they
would be applauding him. This is typical of the left
wing. They are filled with hypocrisy and misstatements
like Nancy Pelosi's comment in her rebuttal of the state
of the union address concerning what Pres Kenney said.
She said Pres Kenney said something like " Ask not what
America can do for you, but ask how we can work together
for the betterment of the world ". She totally misused
Pres Kennedy's statement for the self-serving moment. He
actually said " Ask not what your country can do for
you, ask what you can do for your country". Pres
Kenney's comment was domestically focused only and it
was focused on telling people not to count on
entitlement programs developed by the federal government
or state governments. The democrat party in the late
70's in my view changed its focus drastically away from
the main stream America to focus groups and left wing
causes. The left-wing faction of the Democratic Party,
which would obviously be comprised of these members’
statements below, is a classic example of partisan
politics. This sort of hypocritical flip flopping and
coupled with radical left-wing liberal views is probably
the main reason why the democratic party has shrunk from
approximately 52% of registered voters 35 years ago to
about 31-32% registered voters today. I would recommend
you forward these quotations to as many people so they
can see the truth and the partisanship of these people.

Re-evaluating Weapons of Mass Destruction


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq
the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and
the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our
purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the
threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there
matters a great deal here. For the risks that the
leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or
biological weapons against us or our allies is the
greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright,
Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as
he has ten times since 1983." S - Sandy Berger, Clinton
National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and
consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take
necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and
missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end
its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to
President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom
Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of
weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat
to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of
the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D,
CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building
weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his
cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of
State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has
invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that
biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace
and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is
doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to
develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the
United States and our allies." - Letter to President
Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others,
December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is
a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the
region. He has ignored the mandated of the Unit ed
Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and
the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D,
MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of
biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has
proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it
will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al G
ore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is
seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of
1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some
stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that
he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his
chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear
weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United
States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to
disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly
arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F.
Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is
working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will
likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years
... We also should re member we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in
development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay
Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the
past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has
demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and
biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he
has refused to do" Rep. - Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10,
2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intel
ligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to
rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his
missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to
terrorists, including al Qaeda members . It is clear,
however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop
nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct
10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling
evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a
number of years, a developing capacity for the
production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He
is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive
regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat
because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation
... And now he is miscalculating America's response to
his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for
weapons of mass destruction . So the threat of Saddam
Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ." -
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE
NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK
US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES???

[Paladin]

Assuming those quotes are true, and I don't doubt they are, it sure paints a terrible picture of the hypocrisy of politics. The Dems and liberals are guilty of it for sure.

I just wonder why the Dems have chosen to bash Bush when he has great approval ratings even now. Are there really that many wishy-washy people that have not decided what party they are going to vote for?

Besides, what is the platform the Dem candidate will run on other than "Bush is bad"? I would think the people who are considering a Dem for president would want to know what their candidate is going to do if elected instead of the ongoing Bush bashing that all Dems agree on anyway.

BTW, I totally disagree with Bush on the illegal immigrant proposal and the overtime proposal, but the decision to vote for him is based upon his character, integrity, and leadership he has shown during his presidency.

[The Punisher]

the Dems are just using all these bad mouthing tatics for political gain:mad:
But practically every one I know sees through them, except for a few idiots.;)

[Vertnut]

Excellent post and topic, redhotcobra. It's usually 01whitecobra that brings these thought-stimulating topics to the board. Once the Dem's figure out who their sacrificial lamb will be, the true bloodshed will begin...and I don't mean in Iraq. Kerry supposedly was involved in some type of massacre in a Vietnamese village during his stint in 'Nam. Dean has begun to show his true colors, and the rest are about done.
All of you youngsters who will vote for the first time can learn a lot this year. I personally don't care who you vote for, but DO try to make an EDUCATED decision.

[OC]

Originally posted by 90 Notch


BTW, I totally disagree with Bush on the illegal immigrant proposal and the overtime proposal, but the decision to vote for him is based upon his character, integrity, and leadership he has shown during his presidency.


I was a strong Bush supporter, even after his tax refund which did nothing but give money back to his supporters(by this I mean that it was not aimed at the lower income/middle class who would have used it to stimulate the economy.

But since his Immigration and Overtime policies, I am moving away. I think these two acts will do more to destroy the economy than anything Clinton did, to include NAFTA. It will provide the Employers a surplus of Minimum wage workers who will do nothing but send their wages south of the border. The OT policy will allow people placed as Salary Employees to be exploited by forcing them to work longer hours for fear of being fired. Which once again will only profit the Emplyers, the ones who put GW in office.

I was watching CNN the other day and they had the Dem. Senator from NC(can't remember his name), and he seemed to know what he was talking about without bashing anyone.

And he didn't just finger point he had a plan for everything he had a problem with.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by Vertnut

All of you youngsters who will vote for the first time can learn a lot this year. I personally don't care who you vote for, but DO try to make an EDUCATED decision.

This will be my first presidential year to vote. I think you know who i'm voting for.:cool:

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Assuming those quotes are true, and I don't doubt they are, it sure paints a terrible picture of the hypocrisy of politics.



what makes you think the qoutes are not real?

[Vertnut]

I agree that GW has made some poor decisions, especially in the last few months. Of all the things mentioned (i.e. overtime laws, immigration,...), the one big fear of mine, is Terrorism. Not ONE other politician running for the other side, has come up with even one suggestion on how to fix this. I think it is of the utmost importance to this country, and it's economy, that another 9-11 never happens. The last one cost us 1 trillion dollars. The next one may do us all in, at least financially. It took the market 18 months to show a recovery of any kind, and I personally don't think it would ever recover from another hit like that. Soooo, with GW's stand on Terrorism, he's still my man. None of that other shit is going to matter if we don't eliminate Terrorism, and at least he's trying.

[OC]

I am going to wait and see which dem comes out on top. The way I see it GW is doing everything he can to assist in eliminating the middle class with his OT and Immigration plans, and help out those who put him in office.

But if the democrats don't have anyone strong enough they can pretty much hang it up. They need to start developing solutions to the problems they complain about, instead of bashing GW.

[MouseKiller]

I don't know what is worse. The hypocrisy or the fact that it does not surprise me.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
what makes you think the qoutes are not real?

I never said they weren't real, read my post. It's not like there hasn't been false quotes written in articles or posted on the net. Nahhhh, thats never happened, how dare I be cautious.

[01WhiteCobra]

They are all a bunch of hypocrites, Bush included. His medicare overhaul is the biggest piece of shit this side of Clinton. And now, we find out it isn't going to cost $395 billion, it will cost $534 billion.

I guess he got tired of greasing the palm of his energy buddies and started in on his drug company buddies.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
I never said they weren't real, read my post.

:o yeah i missed that one.:eek: my mistake

[01WhiteCobra]

Sad, latest USAToday poll shows Kerry actually leading Bush at the moment. Only a couple of weeks after the State of The Union and still a few democrats in the running.

I think the poll also showed Edwards leading Bush, which while I like the way the man thinks, he isn't ready for the show.

[Vertnut]

After several weeks of nothing but Liberals on TV, and in all other forms of media, I'm not surprised Bush is behind...out of sight, out of mind. Bush hasn't even begun his campaign, and won't, until the Demo's pick their sacrificial lamb. I am certain it will be a blood-bath like we have never seen.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Vertnut
After several weeks of nothing but Liberals on TV, and in all other forms of media, I'm not surprised Bush is behind...out of sight, out of mind. Bush hasn't even begun his campaign, and won't, until the Demo's pick their sacrificial lamb. I am certain it will be a blood-bath like we have never seen.

I don't think Bush has anything to worry about.

Although, I like Edwards. Probably the only centrist in the bunch, but quite a bit inexperienced. He should have waited a couple more election cycles before jumping to the "show".

[OC]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
I don't think Bush has anything to worry about.

Although, I like Edwards. Probably the only centrist in the bunch, but quite a bit inexperienced. He should have waited a couple more election cycles before jumping to the "show".

Couldn't we say the same thing about Bush? Howlong was he a politician before becoming president?

I like Edwards too something about someone who doesn't need to to inslut to get his point across...and actually has a point to make.

[Vertnut]

Funny you should mention Edwards...the reason I (we?) like him, is the very reason the Dem's won't pick him. The wife and I were having this discussion getting ready for work this morning. I guess it proves I'm not really a Die-Hard Rightwinger after all. Close, but not totally.;)

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
They are all a bunch of hypocrites, Bush included.

what makes Bush a hypocrite in your opinion?

[OC]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
what makes Bush a hypocrite in your opinion?

Bush's tax refund he sent out was an across the board refund, not staggered to give more to the lower class. His explanation for the refund was to give the economy a boost to start it ..however, if he really wanted to start the economy, he would have give it to the poor who would have spent it. By giving back to the rich they put it back in bank acounts, effectively stalling the economy.

His plan to eliminate overtime, is a plan strictly for the employers, the people who put him in office. By making employees exept they will be able to limit their overtime expenses, hence raising profits. The fact that the employers have to use overtime is an example of their own inefficiencies, Bush is rewarding them for this, instead of making them go into their own organization and fix these problems.

His immigration plan has the ability to put American workers out of work because it allows employers to use cheap immigrant labor. The wages paid to these immigrants will go below the border effectively taking their buying power out of the economy, and will have a staggering effect on the economy.

[46Tbird]

We have some serious problems in this country.

Since the rich can buy anything they want, they are buying votes, politicians, and business competition left and right. Now they are looking for the cheapest labor possible to maximize profits. Jobs are going to India or being imported from Mexico.

Essentially, it's class warfare. The rich are attacking the middle class by eliminating their jobs and replacing them with lower-cost alternatives. Eventually, your only alternatives as an American will be to be a rich employer or a poor worker.

It's time to inform the government that this is bad policy for America. Get the illegals the fuck out of our country so that paying someone $2/hr is no longer feasible. Pay a decent minimum wage so that low-income, uneducated workers will be able to support their families and have money to save. Regulate overseas job transfers using Ethics laws and tariffs. We need to create ways to make it beneficial for employers to keep good paying jobs here in the US.

There are lots of things that COULD be done, but no one in Congress is going to ruffle the feathers of their financial supporters. So until we change the ways that congressmen are paid / supported / lobbied, we will not see any change. And since the politicians are in it for themselves, and not the country, don't look for any one presidential nominee to make so much as a dent in the situation at hand.

Oh, by the way, we will self destruct just like the USSR did within 15 years. You can quote me on that if you want. I see civil war, famine, the whole nine yards. We are due for it. We are too disjointed and purposeless to remain unified and sovereign. No wonder the world thinks we're crazy - we are. We can't even agree that English is our national language because we're so fucking worried about pissing off a bunch of non-US citizens that are in the country illegally! Give me a break! :rolleyes:

How does this tie back to Bush? Because he, just like the Dems, have no intentions whatsoever of changing the status quo. They are the politically and financially powerful "Haves" and those that want the change are the weak and poor "Have Nots".

Vandergriff in '12 :)

[Vertnut]

The Dem's don't want the illegals to leave, because they birth LEGAL, VOTING Dems while they are here. Bush decided to help them along.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Vertnut
The Dem's don't want the illegals to leave, because they birth LEGAL, VOTING Dems while they are here. Bush decided to help them along.

I have heard that the proposal to allow illegals to get amnesty is just a way to get himself elected and that soon after he wins the borders will be shut down since he will not have to worry about re-election again.

I hope the shut down of the borders to illegal immigration is true, since it is the only real way we can stay safe.

[Vertnut]

Most of them cannot even vote, so Bush won't benefit in the '04 election. Future generations, however, will be citizens of the U.S. Mexican-Americans are traditionally strong Democrats. Take a look at California...

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Vertnut
Most of them cannot even vote, so Bush won't benefit in the '04 election. Future generations, however, will be citizens of the U.S. Mexican-Americans are traditionally strong Democrats. Take a look at California...

Gimmie a break. You think every illegal is a lone island in this country? They don't have friends and support from legal residents?

[Vertnut]

Sure, most stay with friends and family while they're here, so would that mean a GOP vote? Never has, never will. For years, the GOP has tried to get the Hispanic vote, and they have yet to do it. Not in Texas, much less nation wide.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Vertnut
Sure, most stay with friends and family while they're here, so would that mean a GOP vote? Never has, never will. For years, the GOP has tried to get the Hispanic vote, and they have yet to do it. Not in Texas, much less nation wide.

LMAO.

Yea, ok, Bush did it out of good graces.

[Vertnut]

Don't know why he did it, but he won't get the Hispanic vote. Very few politicians do anything out of good graces, and he pissed off more Reps than anyone, so I don't know what his motivation was/is, but it will more than likely COST him votes.

[46Tbird]

Not from the people that drive dump trucks full of money into the Republican Party's bank accounts.

[fastfordfan1]

If Kerry wins the election, we are all in for a world of hurt!

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Vertnut
Don't know why he did it, but he won't get the Hispanic vote. Very few politicians do anything out of good graces, and he pissed off more Reps than anyone, so I don't know what his motivation was/is, but it will more than likely COST him votes.

What are the pissed of Republicans going to do? Vote Kerry?

[Vertnut]

I'd stay home before voting for Kerry, and I'm afraid some will. Some folks (not me) tire of all the bullshit from both sides, and just stay home. I think that scenario would hurt Bush, moreso than Kerry. *Note* Those dumptrucks are probably driven by teamsters, and are damned glad to do it.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
If Kerry wins the election, we are all in for a world of hurt!

"I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations" - John Kerry

[91rednotch]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
If Kerry wins the election, we are all in for a world of hurt!

I second that

<----------will be getting out to the polls this coming election to vote for Dubya

[Fobra]

well let me first of say this, my qoutes were about the democrats and their positions on the war. by no means did i intend to suggest that democrats are hypocrits in all areas and republicans not. with bush granting amnesty to illegals, thats arguably a political move to buy the hispanic vote, what do you expect, he's a politician. i guess we will have to wait for the elections to come and hear him try to justify his descision for this amnesty move.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 46Tbird
We have some serious problems in this country.

Since the rich can buy anything they want, they are buying votes, politicians, and business competition left and right. Now they are looking for the cheapest labor possible to maximize profits. Jobs are going to India or being imported from Mexico.

Essentially, it's class warfare. The rich are attacking the middle class by eliminating their jobs and replacing them with lower-cost alternatives. Eventually, your only alternatives as an American will be to be a rich employer or a poor worker.

It's time to inform the government that this is bad policy for America. Get the illegals the fuck out of our country so that paying someone $2/hr is no longer feasible. Pay a decent minimum wage so that low-income, uneducated workers will be able to support their families and have money to save. Regulate overseas job transfers using Ethics laws and tariffs. We need to create ways to make it beneficial for employers to keep good paying jobs here in the US.

There are lots of things that COULD be done, but no one in Congress is going to ruffle the feathers of their financial supporters. So until we change the ways that congressmen are paid / supported / lobbied, we will not see any change. And since the politicians are in it for themselves, and not the country, don't look for any one presidential nominee to make so much as a dent in the situation at hand.

Oh, by the way, we will self destruct just like the USSR did within 15 years. You can quote me on that if you want. I see civil war, famine, the whole nine yards. We are due for it. We are too disjointed and purposeless to remain unified and sovereign. No wonder the world thinks we're crazy - we are. We can't even agree that English is our national language because we're so fucking worried about pissing off a bunch of non-US citizens that are in the country illegally! Give me a break! :rolleyes:

How does this tie back to Bush? Because he, just like the Dems, have no intentions whatsoever of changing the status quo. They are the politically and financially powerful "Haves" and those that want the change are the weak and poor "Have Nots".

Vandergriff in '12 :)
Yep! It's called an aristicratic (and probably POLICED) nation. Too many ignorant assholes just loving the way it's shaping up. Thinking it's so kool to be a bush licker. I hear he's going to invade "big bad" Cuba next. He likes their cigars.(OK-lets hear it all you ditto heads) :(

[black01gt]

Originally posted by fastfordfan1
If Kerry wins the election, we are all in for a world of hurt!
Yikes! Do you mean this current Paradise for the un-rich might be jeopardy? :rolleyes:

[Vertnut]

What's this "un-rich" bullshit? A new Lib on the board? It's bad enough you have less than 60 posts, but let's make them worth reading. I'm "un-rich", I work two jobs ( that I easily found ), and I lead a pretty good life. You are NOT guaranteed wealth in ANY country, but at least here you have a shot at it. ANY politician is rich. You think Kerry isn't rich? His wife being an Heir of the Heinz co.? She could buy Dubya out of her ass pocket! Who do you think provides jobs? The poor? Hell no. You think we have folks FLEEING other countries, and risking death to get here, so they can live BADLY? If Kerry is the answer, I want to know what the fuckin' question is...

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by Vertnut
What's this "un-rich" bullshit? A new Lib on the board? It's bad enough you have less than 60 posts, but let's make them worth reading. I'm "un-rich", I work two jobs ( that I easily found ), and I lead a pretty good life. You are NOT guaranteed wealth in ANY country, but at least here you have a shot at it. ANY politician is rich. You think Kerry isn't rich? His wife being an Heir of the Heinz co.? She could buy Dubya out of her ass pocket! Who do you think provides jobs? The poor? Hell no. You think we have folks FLEEING other countries, and risking death to get here, so they can live BADLY? If Kerry is the answer, I want to know what the fuckin' question is... right, most rich people work hard for what they have. Why dose Kerry think it is right to dip more out of "people that are better off" pockets than equally for everybody? Im not considered rich in America, but I am considered rich compared to some people in Africa. Be content with what you have. If you need more money, get out there and be creative, positive, and work for it. It is not our government's job to financially support everyone or control their income.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by Vertnut
You are NOT guaranteed wealth in ANY country, but at least here you have a shot at it.

Actually I think in Dubai, they give you a salary and a house for being a citizen. I think it was Dubai.

[Vertnut]

I'm sorry...I lost my head. I hope the folks in Dubai forgive me for my rant and my language. I'm tired of some folks thinking they should be entitled to riches, and resenting those that are.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Actually I think in Dubai, they give you a salary and a house for being a citizen. I think it was Dubai.

How much salary and what kind of house? I wonder if the amount of salary and quality of house would be defined as having wealth.

You could give me a house on the eastside of FW or south Dallas and I wouldn't go so far as to say I was wealthy. LOL

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
How much salary and what kind of house? I wonder if the amount of salary and quality of house would be defined as having wealth.

You could give me a house on the eastside of FW or south Dallas and I wouldn't go so far as to say I was wealthy. LOL

If I remember correct, and putting it in terms of D/FW, I think you are probably looking at a 200-250K house. I believe everyone made 70K a year.

I'll see if I can find a web reference, I read it in either the Wall Street Journal or Financial Times a few years back.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
If I remember correct, and putting it in terms of D/FW, I think you are probably looking at a 200-250K house. I believe everyone made 70K a year.

I'll see if I can find a web reference, I read it in either the Wall Street Journal or Financial Times a few years back.

If thats the case, that would definitely be wealth, no doubt.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
If thats the case, that would definitely be wealth, no doubt.

damn right, i wonder what kind of taxes they have over there to provide that kind of living.:confused:

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
damn right, i wonder what kind of taxes they have over there to provide that kind of living.:confused:

ZERO.

Nice when the product of your country is crude oil, eh?

I'll ask some people this weekend that would know about this. Like I said, I'm almost certain it is Dubai, but not 100% certain.

I do know they treat forgeiners like dirt as well.

[lilthumper]

One of the earlier posts said something about the Bush tax cuts going to the upper middle class and the rich and not enough to the poor. Well, the way I see it is that the poor don't even pay FIT anyways so where should their cut come from? Yes, me and my wife lived in the 20-30K bracket for the first years of our marriage and I can tell you that we did not pay in anything. My secretary is getting more back from the government than she even paid in. How is this possible? I do, as should you, support even % tax cuts because the upper middle and the rich ARE the ones that create jobs. I am not really RICH, but I have done well through hard work and I can tell you that employers in this country have it TOUGHER THAN YOU THINK. Workmens comp ins, matching employee withholding, liability insurance, AND if you bust your ass and turn a profit guess what happens? The government wants an even larger % of my hard earned money. This country better get back to hard work and quit bitching for a handout. If you take the encentive out of hard work you will not have anyone wanting to do hard work anymore. Yes, the Medicare scrip bill was not put together correctly, I don't understand the illegal alien thing yet, I don't like how GWB gave in to the dems and through even more money at a broken education system, BUT....don't argue with his tax policy unless you really understand it! And the war on terror? Oh how I cry for those that are blind.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by lilthumper
I can tell you that employers in this country have it TOUGHER THAN YOU THINK. Workmens comp ins, matching employee withholding, liability insurance, AND if you bust your ass and turn a profit guess what happens?

I hear ya'. Being a partner in a software company based in California, is, well, taxing.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by lilthumper
I do, as should you, support even % tax cuts because the upper middle and the rich ARE the ones that create jobs. I am not really RICH, but I have done well through hard work and I can tell you that employers in this country have it TOUGHER THAN YOU THINK.

exactly!:D

[Vertnut]

Crude oil...hmmm. I wouldn't feel rich living in that environment. Between sand storms and camel shit, I'd really miss my thin slice of Heaven back here in Texas.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by Vertnut
What's this "un-rich" bullshit? A new Lib on the board? It's bad enough you have less than 60 posts, but let's make them worth reading. I'm "un-rich", I work two jobs ( that I easily found ), and I lead a pretty good life. You are NOT guaranteed wealth in ANY country, but at least here you have a shot at it. ANY politician is rich. You think Kerry isn't rich? His wife being an Heir of the Heinz co.? She could buy Dubya out of her ass pocket! Who do you think provides jobs? The poor? Hell no. You think we have folks FLEEING other countries, and risking death to get here, so they can live BADLY? If Kerry is the answer, I want to know what the fuckin' question is...
Quick with the "lib" shit aren't ya?! I guess with 1748 post versus my measly 60 or whatever, I don't count em, you can make it as "black & white" as you want.
I don't begrudge anybody "honestly" working hard to make as much money as they can, or keeping as much of it as they can. But..with a straight face tell me there aren't millions of people working thier asses off and still not getting by. Who said anything about a "hand out" other than you, Comrad? Most Americans don't ask for charity, but they do expect their leaders to provide a way of living beyond that of hardship status. And please spare me the bullshit of how well the economy is doing!
How many post do I have now? I don't see the need to count em.

[OC]

Originally posted by lilthumper
One of the earlier posts said something about the Bush tax cuts going to the upper middle class and the rich and not enough to the poor. Well, the way I see it is that the poor don't even pay FIT anyways so where should their cut come from? ......... Workmens comp ins, matching employee withholding, liability insurance, AND if you bust your ass and turn a profit guess what happens? The government wants an even larger % of my hard earned money. This country better get back to hard work and quit bitching for a handout. If you take the encentive out of hard work you will not have anyone wanting to do hard work anymore. Yes, the Medicare scrip bill was not put together correctly, I don't understand the illegal alien thing yet, I don't like how GWB gave in to the dems and through even more money at a broken education system, BUT....don't argue with his tax policy unless you really understand it! And the war on terror? Oh how I cry for those that are blind.


Bush's across the board tax return check he issued did nothing to stimulate the economy, any Macro-Economic student knows that luxury items stimulate the economy, if Bush would have slanted the returns towards the poor, he could have jump started the economy, as it was most of that money went to pay off credit card debt, which did nothing to stimulate the economy.

Besides that, I do agree that the poor get back to much, I work with people who get back what I have to pay...why... cause they have kids...the kid tax credit is BULLSHIT...you knew that they costed money when you had them why should I subsidize them?

The Illegal thing is what's going to put people out of "hard work" as you put it, so maybe you should go back and understand it.

[Vertnut]

I'll keep this civil, and refrain from telling you to stick that "Comrad" shit in your ass, dad. You're old enough to know your governments' job has nothing to do with "providing you a living". Do you have it rough? You cruise around in an '01 GT. You must be rich! You obviously have a PC, so you must be rich! I got into my personal backround on another thread, so I won't bore you, but I was not born with a silver spoon hanging out of my sphincter. I give to several charities (GASP!), but I'm not giving handouts. So....are you a Liberal or not?

[black01gt]

Originally posted by Vertnut
I'll keep this civil, and refrain from telling you to stick that "Comrad" shit in your ass, dad. You're old enough to know your governments' job has nothing to do with "providing you a living". Do you have it rough? You cruise around in an '01 GT. You must be rich! You obviously have a PC, so you must be rich! I got into my personal backround on another thread, so I won't bore you, but I was not born with a silver spoon hanging out of my sphincter. I give to several charities (GASP!), but I'm not giving handouts. So....are you a Liberal or not?
Speaking of sphincters...too late for the civil when you gotta call everybody that doesn't jump on your hard-liner bullshit band wagon that easiest to grab moniker..."liberal". I've never put much faith in these labels anyway when "conservatives" want to spend money like it's falling out of trees only to benefit too few, and "liberals" want to CONSERVE money spent, the planet, the country, the integrity, the middle class, yet can get too carried with programs at times. I prefer to make my own EDUCATED decisions without consulting liberal or conservative polls.
You don't know shit about me, my finances, or my background, so don't continue to show your ass KID, by assuming what you think you know.
As I posted on another post, Most Americans are proud people, and don't ask for hand outs. They just want to work hard and be rewarded with a lifestyle that is above a hardship status. In my 48 years prior to this administration, they were able to do just that! Things are changeing real fast with that way of living, and if you can't see it (beyond your front door), then stay up Bush's ass and see where you are 5 years from now.
Liberal or Conservative? I'm not sure, but why does it really matter to you? How many post do you count for me now? Do I have enough to meet your approval yet.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by black01gt
"liberals" want to CONSERVE money spent
Your joking right....
Now thats funny!!!

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Bush's across the board tax return check he issued did nothing to stimulate the economy, Common since would tell you this statement isnt true:rolleyes:

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 281R
Your joking right....
Now thats funny!!!

i was thinking the samething lol

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 281R
Your joking right....
Now thats funny!!!

Actually the joke right now is the Republicans are running the legislative and executive branches and are spending like liberals.

Now THAT is funny!

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
Common since would tell you this statement isnt true:rolleyes:


If you would have paid attention to the news or economic theory you would have found that those in the lower income used their money to buy food etc., while those in higher tax brackets used it to eliminate their debt such as Credit Cards. Neither of these actions stimulated the economy.

If you have something to say then say it with facts, not just that common sense rolling eyes crap.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by reef93gt
If you would have paid attention to the news or economic theory you would have found that those in the lower income used their money to buy food etc., while those in higher tax brackets used it to eliminate their debt such as Credit Cards. Neither of these actions stimulated the economy.

If you have something to say then say it with facts, not just that common sense rolling eyes crap.

Don't confuse them. Bill O'Reilly and Shuan Hannity don't ever get that deep in there 30 minutes on the air every night.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
If you would have paid attention to the news or economic theory you would have found that those in the lower income used their money to buy food etc., while those in higher tax brackets used it to eliminate their debt such as Credit Cards. Neither of these actions stimulated the economy.

If you have something to say then say it with facts, not just that common sense rolling eyes crap. So raising taxs only helps the economy?.... right......:p

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Don't confuse them. Bill O'Reilly and Shuan Hannity don't ever get that deep in there 30 minutes on the air every night. Your just a "Bitter Old Fawk".... you know it:p

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
If you would have paid attention to the news or economic theory you would have found that those in the lower income used their money to buy food etc., while those in higher tax brackets used it to eliminate their debt such as Credit Cards. Neither of these actions stimulated the economy.

If you have something to say then say it with facts, not just that common sense rolling eyes crap. I pay attention to the news and economics theories all the time. And dont tell me you know how every American spends his or her tax cut dollar. For you to sit here an say that Bush's tax cuts didnt help the economy is just ignorant and way beond common since. From what I hear from the news is conflicting debates on if Bush's economic plan did help. Some say yes, and some say no. It seems to change everyday. But unemployment is at its lowest in years, and if you think that everything that Bush has done for the country is negative, than you have been watching the Clinton News Network (CNN) too much.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 281R
Your just a "Bitter Old Fawk".... you know it:p

Yes, I am. :D

Although, I'm hoping that in 2004, I just become an older fawk.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Don't confuse them. Bill O'Reilly and Shuan Hannity don't ever get that deep in there 30 minutes on the air every night.

I don't want to assume anything so I will ask, how often do you listen to O'Reilly and Hannity since you say they don't EVER get that deep?

What would change you to an old fawk in 2004?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 281R
I pay attention to the news and economics theories all the time. And dont tell me you know how every American spends his or her tax cut dollar. For you to sit here an say that Bush's tax cuts didnt help the economy is just ignorant and way beond common since. From what I hear from the news is conflicting debates on if Bush's economic plan did help. Some say yes, and some say no. It seems to change everyday. But unemployment is at its lowest in years, and if you think that everything that Bush has done for the country is negative, than you have been watching the Clinton News Network (CNN) too much.

I agree. If the economy was still in the tank, from when it started 2 or 3 quarters BEFORE Bush was elected, and getting lower they would biatch and call for Bush's head on a platter, now that it starts to rebound it surely can't be anything Bush did though. Nahhh, that can possibly be it. They are still calling for his head though. I guess the Bush haters are starting to show their colors. LOL

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
I don't want to assume anything so I will ask, how often do you listen to O'Reilly and Hannity since you say they don't EVER get that deep?

What would change you to an old fawk in 2004?

I'll be a kinder, gentler fawk. ha!

I listen to O'Reilly, I listen to Hannity all the time.

I actually like O'Reilly. Oh no! I really like him since his comments about the Bush administration and WMDs.

I also watch Bill Maher.

It's not that O'Reilly couldn't get deep, he is a very intelligent man. Unfortunately, his format doesn't allow for getting too deep into an issue.

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra


It's not that O'Reilly couldn't get deep, he is a very intelligent man. Unfortunately, his format doesn't allow for getting too deep into an issue.

you should e-mail him that comment, who knows, maybe he will respond:)

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
you should e-mail him that comment, who knows, maybe he will respond:)

I will, worded a little different. I do have great respect for the man. I also read his books. :eek:

He is doing quite well. His empire is at $60 million and growing.

Sean Hannity may end up being something, just don't think he is there yet.

Rush, even before the drug episode, was on the downward spiral. Of course, in my opinion.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
I will, worded a little different. I do have great respect for the man. I also read his books. :eek:

He is doing quite well. His empire is at $60 million and growing.

Sean Hannity may end up being something, just don't think he is there yet.

Rush, even before the drug episode, was on the downward spiral. Of course, in my opinion.

Uh oh, things are very strange around here. I actually agree with you.

You still never answered why 2004 would make you not be bitter anymore. Is there something that could happen in general or specific that would affect it?

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Uh oh, things are very strange around here. I actually agree with you.

You still never answered why 2004 would make you not be bitter anymore. Is there something that could happen in general or specific that would affect it?

An honest effort to be more tolerant of other views. Actually trying to see an issue from both sides to the point I can say, "Yea, I can actually see your point."

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
Uh oh, things are very strange around here. I actually agree with you.
Maybe 01WhiteCobra is loosing his bitterness?:D

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
I pay attention to the news and economics theories all the time. And dont tell me you know how every American spends his or her tax cut dollar. For you to sit here an say that Bush's tax cuts didnt help the economy is just ignorant and way beond common since. From what I hear from the news is conflicting debates on if Bush's economic plan did help. Some say yes, and some say no. It seems to change everyday. But unemployment is at its lowest in years, and if you think that everything that Bush has done for the country is negative, than you have been watching the Clinton News Network (CNN) too much.

First of all it is common sense..not since.

Second I NEVER said Bush hasn't done anything positive for this country. I feel that his standing up after 9-11 and saying that we weren't going to take this shit anymore was one of the strongest moves made by a US President. I feel that (-11 was a direct result of Clinton being a weak president. i.e. Kobar Towers Kuwait/USS Cole/1st World Trade Center which reinforced to the world that they could attack the US whenever they wanted. Bush has put a stop to that BS.

I just don't like his domestic policies i.e. Immigrant worker Policy, Elimination of Overtime, which basically benefit the Employers and not the Employees/Citizens.

I would recommend that you read the post before you decide you know MY view on everything.

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by 281R
Maybe 01WhiteCobra is loosing his bitterness?:D

I've decided my theme for the rest of the year was going to be, "Common Ground, Common Sense". I'm going to see if I can't move the centrist opinion into main stream.

The only bitterness I will have will be from my morning coffee.

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
First of all it is common sense..not since.
Cheap shot. Im sure you spell perfect too.... Right...
Originally posted by reef93gt
Second I NEVER said Bush hasn't done anything positive for this country. I feel that his standing up after 9-11 and saying that we weren't going to take this shit anymore was one of the strongest moves made by a US President. I feel that (-11 was a direct result of Clinton being a weak president. i.e. Kobar Towers Kuwait/USS Cole/1st World Trade Center which reinforced to the world that they could attack the US whenever they wanted. Bush has put a stop to that BS.

I just don't like his domestic policies i.e. Immigrant worker Policy, Elimination of Overtime, which basically benefit the Employers and not the Employees/Citizens.

I would recommend that you read the post before you decide you know MY view on everything. [/B] And if you would read what I wrote, I said "if you think that everything that Bush has done for the country is negative" Please read "if", not meaning that you do, but "if".;)

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
I will, worded a little different. I do have great respect for the man. I also read his books. :eek:

He is doing quite well. His empire is at $60 million and growing.

Sean Hannity may end up being something, just don't think he is there yet.

Rush, even before the drug episode, was on the downward spiral. Of course, in my opinion.

I read bill's "who's looking out for you book" over christmas. loved it. right now i'm borrowing sean hannities book "let freedom ring" from a friend because i'm doing a research project over the war with iraq.:D

[01WhiteCobra]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
I read bill's "who's looking out for you book" over christmas. loved it. right now i'm borrowing sean hannities book "let freedom ring" from a friend because i'm doing a research project over the war with iraq.:D

Another one to read is A National Party No More: The Conscience of a Conservative Democrat by Zell Miller.

Senator Miller rocks and he blasts his own party in the book. Unfortunately, he is too much to the middle to ever be considered for Presidential candidate for the Democratic Party. He is pure conscience and common sense.

I think (not sure) that he even endorsed President Bush for the upcoming election.

http://miller.senate.gov/

Here is a press release from his site:


Miller Statement on Party Affiliation

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Zell Miller (D-GA) today issued the following statement regarding his party affiliation:

"While I am certain that in the future I will often vote with President Bush and the Republicans on many issues, I will not switch to the Republican Party and have no need to proclaim myself an independent.

"I said the day that I came to the Senate that "I will serve no single party, but rather 7.5 million Georgians." That is exactly what I have done every day since, and that is exactly what I will continue to do - regardless of the makeup or the leadership of the Senate.

"But a word of warning to my fellow Democrats at this time: What is sorely needed around here is much more getting along and much less getting even. The poisonous partisanship that has pervaded this place on both sides of the aisle must end."

[Fobra]

Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra

Senator Miller rocks and he blasts his own party in the book. Unfortunately, he is too much to the middle to ever be considered for Presidential candidate for the Democratic Party. He is pure conscience and common sense.

I think (not sure) that he even endorsed President Bush for the upcoming election.

http://miller.senate.gov/

Here is a press release from his site:

yep, and sean hannity loves zel miller for the obvious reasons to lol:cool:

[OC]

Originally posted by 281R
Cheap shot. Im sure you spell perfect too.... Right...
And if you would read what I wrote, I said "if you think that everything that Bush has done for the country is negative" Please read "if", not meaning that you do, but "if".;)

Point taken, I will look for the small words as well as the big ones next time.;)

[The Punisher]

Originally posted by reef93gt
Point taken, I will look for the small words as well as the big ones next time.;) Cool, I wasnt trying to pick on you or imply that you think that all things that Bush has done are negative, but there is a lot of people out there that think just that. And that is scary...:eek:

[01WhiteCobra]

Bush has already requested 1MM from the transition budget. LOL. It is a fund used to train top administration officials who join administrations of Presidential terms.

If anything, I truly love the confidence of Bush!

[black01gt]

Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
yep, and sean hannity loves zel miller for the obvious reasons to lol:cool:
Kinda like why Democrats have a lot of respect for John McCain.

[black01gt]

Originally posted by 90 Notch
I agree. I guess the Bush haters are starting to show their colors. LOL
YOU THINK?!?:cool: