89 model 460 out of a f250...efi....will carb ,intake,drop right on top of factory heads...can i use factory pullies for a fox...what about keeping cool...will fox radiater work or what...its a stock460
i gotta ask....why is it a poor choice?bullfrog said:on the year they changed ,but fuel injected heads are a different setup. As is that 460 is a poor choice for a performance application in my opinion.
I have to argue with you here.bullfrog said:1. Low compression.
2. Restrictive head design for a performance application.
3. No performance intake available.
4. No headers readily available for a fox.
5. No good looking valve covers available.
I guess you missed the part where I said AS IS.Stevo said:I have to argue with you here.
1. All 460 cylinder heads manufactured after 1971 are large chamber (97cc) and considered low compression, with a head change to an earlier head (76cc) or flat top piston the compression will increase. The EFI pistons actually have a smaller dish as compared to stock carb pistons, so they are actually a better choice in the compression
2. The EFI heads actually have a decent flow considering the port volume, and have been used in the right combination for up to 500 hp in a street application.
3. True, no bolt on carb intake is currently made to work with the EFI heads at the moment, there are a couple companies that have them in the design/testing stages, but none are sold at the moment. A few have modified earlier carb intakes with success.
4. Fox 460 headers can be used with a flange swap.
5. beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
NOW that has been said, all these arguments are moot with a simple head change, swapping earlier heads onto the later block will allow an aftermarket carb intake to be used, and if early 76cc castings are used higher compression can be had. Using small chamber stock heads on that EFI shortblock with only a camshaft/timing chain swap (depending on the cam) would net near 300-450 hp, simple porting on the exhaust side would push it closer to 500 hp, at which the stock pistons become a liability.
If you already have the engine you mentioned, swap on stock early 76cc chamber heads, swap in the $99 Summit #sum3501 camshaft and an early timing chain set, a performance carb intake/Holley 750, and a set of Fox swap headers, you are looking at ~350 hp@4000 and ~475 tq@3000. Those numbers are from using known stock head cfm flowcharts, 9:1 compression using desktop dyno, and from statements given from people who have built similar engines it is very easy done.
Porting the heads on the exhaust side gives tremendous gains, and allows for more cam and more power, depending on the work invested in the heads.
Hope this helps clear any confusion.
Stevo
1. Not all heads after 71 are 97cc. The D2OE PI head is 88cc.Stevo said:I have to argue with you here.
1. All 460 cylinder heads manufactured after 1971 are large chamber (97cc) and considered low compression.
2. The EFI heads actually have a decent flow considering the port volume, and have been used in the right combination for up to 500 hp in a street application.
3.. Fox 460 headers can be used with a flange swap.
If you already have the engine you mentioned, swap on stock early 76cc chamber heads, swap in the $99 Summit #sum3501 camshaft and an early timing chain set, a performance carb intake/Holley 750, and a set of Fox swap headers, you are looking at ~350 hp@4000 and ~475 tq@3000.
Stevo
From your viewpoint, every 460 manufactured produced after 1971 "AS IS" is a poor choice for performance, I was just stating facts and giving him information, there is no reason for you to be a dickhead.bullfrog said:I guess you missed the part where I said AS IS.
1. Got me there, the one head (police interceptor head)bullfrog said:1. Not all heads after 71 are 97cc. The D2OE PI head is 88cc.
2. For a truck maybe. No one runs the FI heads on a true performance engine.
3. Headers won't seal the tubes are too much bigger.
4. Why would you want a 350 hp 720 lb BB?
No confusion here.
are you high? seriously?bullfrog said:1. Low compression.
2. Restrictive head design for a performance application.
3. No performance intake available.
4. No headers readily available for a fox.
5. No good looking valve covers available.
???? You must not know much about the 385 series engines.FatassLX said:are you high? seriously?
No, just the FI truck engine for the reasons stated. After you buy a swap kit for $550 plus and invest another $300 in the mods you suggested to attain a 350hp motor that weighs an additional 200 lbs that is not a very cost effective option. I was not trying to be a di*khead, but did take exception to your "clearing up the confusion remark".Stevo said:From your viewpoint, every 460 manufactured produced after 1971 "AS IS" is a poor choice for performance, I was just stating facts and giving him information, there is no reason for you to be a dickhead.
Stevo
i know plenty. infact i know that: there are pistons available that arent low compression, there are a ton of intakes, headers readily available for the fox body and valve covers available. oh yeah and i even know plenty about the BB fox swap. thank you, try again.bullfrog said:???? You must not know much about the 385 series engines.
Do you guys ever read the entire post? I said the stock 89 FI engine AS-IS is not a good choice. I never said that you cant take the block and build a performance engine. after you change heads, pistons, intake, cam, exhaust etc. Sheesh!!!. You do realize that the FI heads do not use the same valve covers as the earlier carbed engines? Besides that part was a joke. Do you realize that there are no intakes except the factory FI intake that fits those heads?FatassLX said:i know plenty. infact i know that: there are pistons available that arent low compression, there are a ton of intakes, headers readily available for the fox body and valve covers available. oh yeah and i even know plenty about the BB fox swap. thank you, try again.
bullfrog said:Do you guys ever read the entire post? I said the stock 89 FI engine AS-IS is not a good choice. I never said that you cant take the block and build a performance engine. after you change heads, pistons, intake, cam, exhaust etc. Sheesh!!!. You do realize that the FI heads do not use the same valve covers as the earlier carbed engines? Besides that part was a joke. Do you realize that there are no intakes except the factory FI intake that fits those heads?
ANY BBF that he swaps in, regardless of year, compression, etc will require items to swap in. The engine he is referring to using already has the correct oil pan, so that isn't needed. He can actually use stock manifolds until he gets headers. Yes, he would need mounts, that is no big deal. You keep spouting that 350 hp number like that is some kind of limit, that is the bottom hp line, cam choices can make it 450 with the stock heads, pistons, rods, etc, plus you purposely keep leaving out the 475 tq that I quoted. Get over it guy, just because you have given up on bigblocks doesn't mean you need to bash them or try to spread false or skewed information.bullfrog said:No, just the FI truck engine for the reasons stated. After you buy a swap kit for $550 plus and invest another $300 in the mods you suggested to attain a 350hp motor that weighs an additional 200 lbs that is not a very cost effective option. I was not trying to be a di*khead, but did take exception to your "clearing up the confusion remark".
Call me crazy, but you could always buy a solid aftermarket aluminum intake, get one of those CHP spyder intake elbows, and have injector bungs welded into it. The firing order won't be the same as a 5.0 (I think), but with that and the right injectors and Maf, it could work with your stock computer after a tune. Beyond that, you might get the stock truck EFI stuff ported and see where you end up, and try to get someone (or just pay someone) to get it and your stock computer to work together. This is where I was trying to tell you in my other post that cubic inches require cubic dollars, otherwise we'd all be rolling around in low-compression pro-stock engines.hellas85stang said:so efi 460,will need diff heads 4 carb?
Are you off your meds? Drag racers don't run fi heads. Wonder why? They just can't compare on a HIGH performance engine. They MAY be OK for a Truck or maybe if you were running a blower/turbocharger but on a N/A engine they just can't compare. Spout all you want about the exhaust port. They may be efficient, but that does not translate into a good choice for performance. They just don't flow well enough for a performance engine. If they were the hot ticket, the racers would be lining up at the wrecking yards and edelbrock, trick flow, ford racing, and Kasse would not be selling heads.Stevo said:Have you ANY experience in using the EFI heads? Have you even looked at one, touched one, read anyone else's experience in using them? Out of the box as cast, the EFI heads have a better flowing exhaust port versus nearly all 385 series stock cast heads. Yes, they use a cast center bolt valve cover, so what? Okay, enough with the heads, lets pick apart the rest of your posts.
Stevo
well put.Gimmeabeer said:Call me crazy, but you could always buy a solid aftermarket aluminum intake, get one of those CHP spyder intake elbows, and have injector bungs welded into it. The firing order won't be the same as a 5.0 (I think), but with that and the right injectors and Maf, it could work with your stock computer after a tune. Beyond that, you might get the stock truck EFI stuff ported and see where you end up, and try to get someone (or just pay someone) to get it and your stock computer to work together. This is where I was trying to tell you in my other post that cubic inches require cubic dollars, otherwise we'd all be rolling around in low-compression pro-stock engines.
hellas85stang said:89 model 460 out of a f250...efi....will carb ,intake,drop right on top of factory heads...can i use factory pullies for a fox...what about keeping cool...will fox radiater work or what...its a stock460