460 swap - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: sherman,tx
Posts: 907
460 swap

89 model 460 out of a f250...efi....will carb ,intake,drop right on top of factory heads...can i use factory pullies for a fox...what about keeping cool...will fox radiater work or what...its a stock460

1990 hatch 4.10 gears. 351w stock 70 heads w/ big valves, and port, rpm intake 650 dp, 9-5 comp, lunati 540 lift 224-234 duration. ford hei stock aod ... still on racks.
hellas85stang is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 07:03 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 312
Pretty much any intake for a 460 should fit on stock heads. I don't see why they wouldn't. Invest in a nice big radiator, 180 thermostat and a high cfm electric fan and you should be alright. I would look for at least a 2800cfm fan. Also, Invest in a really good set of headers. I bought some individual flange headers years ago for a 460 and they really sucked. Not fun to install. They make some nice single flange headers that work wonders.

Nitrous inhalin' vert!
cessnabird is offline  
post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 07:19 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Not sure

on the year they changed ,but fuel injected heads are a different setup. As is that 460 is a poor choice for a performance application in my opinion.
bullfrog is offline  
post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: sherman,tx
Posts: 907
its justa start..up grades in time

1990 hatch 4.10 gears. 351w stock 70 heads w/ big valves, and port, rpm intake 650 dp, 9-5 comp, lunati 540 lift 224-234 duration. ford hei stock aod ... still on racks.
hellas85stang is offline  
post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 12:54 PM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
A intake intended for the older carbed engines will NOT work on those heads without major modifications, the later EFI heads (E7TE, F3TE) heads have different shaped ports that are raised on the heads somewhere around 1/2"-3/4", the mismatch will not allow it. The shortblock can be used, but the heads would need to be changed or the intake heavily modified to work with the EFI heads.

If you are interested in a set of carbed heads send a message, I have a set of D0VE heads that I had a local shop do a valve job on a year or so ago, still unran since the freshening.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 07:17 AM
Lifer
 
FatassLX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: mexico, disneyland for anarchist perverts
Posts: 5,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
on the year they changed ,but fuel injected heads are a different setup. As is that 460 is a poor choice for a performance application in my opinion.
i gotta ask....why is it a poor choice?

FatassLX is offline  
post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 07:50 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Basically

1. Low compression.
2. Restrictive head design for a performance application.
3. No performance intake available.
4. No headers readily available for a fox.
5. No good looking valve covers available.
bullfrog is offline  
post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 10:36 AM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
1. Low compression.
2. Restrictive head design for a performance application.
3. No performance intake available.
4. No headers readily available for a fox.
5. No good looking valve covers available.
I have to argue with you here.

1. All 460 cylinder heads manufactured after 1971 are large chamber (97cc) and considered low compression, with a head change to an earlier head (76cc) or flat top piston the compression will increase. The EFI pistons actually have a smaller dish as compared to stock carb pistons, so they are actually a better choice in the compression sense.

2. The EFI heads actually have a decent flow considering the port volume, and have been used in the right combination for up to 500 hp in a street application.

3. True, no bolt on carb intake is currently made to work with the EFI heads at the moment, there are a couple companies that have them in the design/testing stages, but none are sold at the moment. A few have modified earlier carb intakes with success.

4. Fox 460 headers can be used with a flange swap.

5. beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

NOW that has been said, all these arguments are moot with a simple head change, swapping earlier heads onto the later block will allow an aftermarket carb intake to be used, and if early 76cc castings are used higher compression can be had. Using small chamber stock heads on that EFI shortblock with only a camshaft/timing chain swap (depending on the cam) would net near 300-450 hp, simple porting on the exhaust side would push it closer to 500 hp, at which the stock pistons become a liability.

If you already have the engine you mentioned, swap on stock early 76cc chamber heads, swap in the $99 Summit #sum3501 camshaft and an early timing chain set, a performance carb intake/Holley 750, and a set of Fox swap headers, you are looking at ~350 hp@4000 and ~475 tq@3000. Those numbers are from using known stock head cfm flowcharts, 9:1 compression using desktop dyno, and from statements given from people who have built similar engines it is very easy done.
Porting the heads on the exhaust side gives tremendous gains, and allows for more cam and more power, depending on the work invested in the heads.

Hope this helps clear any confusion.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 10:58 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
I have to argue with you here.

1. All 460 cylinder heads manufactured after 1971 are large chamber (97cc) and considered low compression, with a head change to an earlier head (76cc) or flat top piston the compression will increase. The EFI pistons actually have a smaller dish as compared to stock carb pistons, so they are actually a better choice in the compression

2. The EFI heads actually have a decent flow considering the port volume, and have been used in the right combination for up to 500 hp in a street application.

3. True, no bolt on carb intake is currently made to work with the EFI heads at the moment, there are a couple companies that have them in the design/testing stages, but none are sold at the moment. A few have modified earlier carb intakes with success.

4. Fox 460 headers can be used with a flange swap.

5. beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

NOW that has been said, all these arguments are moot with a simple head change, swapping earlier heads onto the later block will allow an aftermarket carb intake to be used, and if early 76cc castings are used higher compression can be had. Using small chamber stock heads on that EFI shortblock with only a camshaft/timing chain swap (depending on the cam) would net near 300-450 hp, simple porting on the exhaust side would push it closer to 500 hp, at which the stock pistons become a liability.

If you already have the engine you mentioned, swap on stock early 76cc chamber heads, swap in the $99 Summit #sum3501 camshaft and an early timing chain set, a performance carb intake/Holley 750, and a set of Fox swap headers, you are looking at ~350 hp@4000 and ~475 tq@3000. Those numbers are from using known stock head cfm flowcharts, 9:1 compression using desktop dyno, and from statements given from people who have built similar engines it is very easy done.
Porting the heads on the exhaust side gives tremendous gains, and allows for more cam and more power, depending on the work invested in the heads.

Hope this helps clear any confusion.

Stevo
I guess you missed the part where I said AS IS.
bullfrog is offline  
post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 11:08 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
I have to argue with you here.
1. All 460 cylinder heads manufactured after 1971 are large chamber (97cc) and considered low compression.

2. The EFI heads actually have a decent flow considering the port volume, and have been used in the right combination for up to 500 hp in a street application.

3.. Fox 460 headers can be used with a flange swap.

If you already have the engine you mentioned, swap on stock early 76cc chamber heads, swap in the $99 Summit #sum3501 camshaft and an early timing chain set, a performance carb intake/Holley 750, and a set of Fox swap headers, you are looking at ~350 hp@4000 and ~475 tq@3000.

Stevo
1. Not all heads after 71 are 97cc. The D2OE PI head is 88cc.
2. For a truck maybe. No one runs the FI heads on a true performance engine.
3. Headers won't seal the tubes are too much bigger.
4. Why would you want a 350 hp 720 lb BB?

No confusion here.
bullfrog is offline  
post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 11:09 AM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
I guess you missed the part where I said AS IS.
From your viewpoint, every 460 manufactured produced after 1971 "AS IS" is a poor choice for performance, I was just stating facts and giving him information, there is no reason for you to be a dickhead.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 11:13 AM
Worship me
 
AL P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 34,345
I had a 429 block with C9VE heads and it made a lot more than 350 hp with stock intake manifold, stock exhaust manifolds, etc.

I'd just get you some old C9VE of DOVE part # heads and then dig you up an aluminum intake at a swap meet (Offenhauser 360=cheap) and put em on. They will wake that thing up real nice like. Or hell even an old CJ or SCJ cast iron intake will work. The CJ intake is a spreadbore though just FYI.

Then when you get some $$$, go over to www.jonkaaseracingengines.com and buy you some goodies.
AL P is offline  
post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 11:14 AM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
1. Not all heads after 71 are 97cc. The D2OE PI head is 88cc.
2. For a truck maybe. No one runs the FI heads on a true performance engine.
3. Headers won't seal the tubes are too much bigger.
4. Why would you want a 350 hp 720 lb BB?

No confusion here.
1. Got me there, the one head (police interceptor head)
2. Wrong there, there have been mild street engines with EFI heads dyno 450 hp
3. Miss where I said re-flange?
4. 350 hp-475tq with $300 worth of parts, do that with a small block

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 02:01 PM
Lifer
 
FatassLX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: mexico, disneyland for anarchist perverts
Posts: 5,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
1. Low compression.
2. Restrictive head design for a performance application.
3. No performance intake available.
4. No headers readily available for a fox.
5. No good looking valve covers available.
are you high? seriously?

FatassLX is offline  
post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 04:42 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
????

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatassLX
are you high? seriously?
???? You must not know much about the 385 series engines.
bullfrog is offline  
post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 04:57 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
From your viewpoint, every 460 manufactured produced after 1971 "AS IS" is a poor choice for performance, I was just stating facts and giving him information, there is no reason for you to be a dickhead.

Stevo
No, just the FI truck engine for the reasons stated. After you buy a swap kit for $550 plus and invest another $300 in the mods you suggested to attain a 350hp motor that weighs an additional 200 lbs that is not a very cost effective option. I was not trying to be a di*khead, but did take exception to your "clearing up the confusion remark".
bullfrog is offline  
post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 05:04 PM
Lifer
 
FatassLX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: mexico, disneyland for anarchist perverts
Posts: 5,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
???? You must not know much about the 385 series engines.
i know plenty. infact i know that: there are pistons available that arent low compression, there are a ton of intakes, headers readily available for the fox body and valve covers available. oh yeah and i even know plenty about the BB fox swap. thank you, try again.

FatassLX is offline  
post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 05:25 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
But

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatassLX
i know plenty. infact i know that: there are pistons available that arent low compression, there are a ton of intakes, headers readily available for the fox body and valve covers available. oh yeah and i even know plenty about the BB fox swap. thank you, try again.
Do you guys ever read the entire post? I said the stock 89 FI engine AS-IS is not a good choice. I never said that you cant take the block and build a performance engine. after you change heads, pistons, intake, cam, exhaust etc. Sheesh!!!. You do realize that the FI heads do not use the same valve covers as the earlier carbed engines? Besides that part was a joke. Do you realize that there are no intakes except the factory FI intake that fits those heads?
bullfrog is offline  
post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: sherman,tx
Posts: 907
so efi 460,will need diff heads 4 carb?

1990 hatch 4.10 gears. 351w stock 70 heads w/ big valves, and port, rpm intake 650 dp, 9-5 comp, lunati 540 lift 224-234 duration. ford hei stock aod ... still on racks.
hellas85stang is offline  
post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-20-2007, 01:53 PM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
Do you guys ever read the entire post? I said the stock 89 FI engine AS-IS is not a good choice. I never said that you cant take the block and build a performance engine. after you change heads, pistons, intake, cam, exhaust etc. Sheesh!!!. You do realize that the FI heads do not use the same valve covers as the earlier carbed engines? Besides that part was a joke. Do you realize that there are no intakes except the factory FI intake that fits those heads?

Have you ANY experience in using the EFI heads? Have you even looked at one, touched one, read anyone else's experience in using them? Out of the box as cast, the EFI heads have a better flowing exhaust port versus nearly all 385 series stock cast heads. Yes, they use a cast center bolt valve cover, so what? Okay, enough with the heads, lets pick apart the rest of your posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
No, just the FI truck engine for the reasons stated. After you buy a swap kit for $550 plus and invest another $300 in the mods you suggested to attain a 350hp motor that weighs an additional 200 lbs that is not a very cost effective option. I was not trying to be a di*khead, but did take exception to your "clearing up the confusion remark".
ANY BBF that he swaps in, regardless of year, compression, etc will require items to swap in. The engine he is referring to using already has the correct oil pan, so that isn't needed. He can actually use stock manifolds until he gets headers. Yes, he would need mounts, that is no big deal. You keep spouting that 350 hp number like that is some kind of limit, that is the bottom hp line, cam choices can make it 450 with the stock heads, pistons, rods, etc, plus you purposely keep leaving out the 475 tq that I quoted. Get over it guy, just because you have given up on bigblocks doesn't mean you need to bash them or try to spread false or skewed information.

In retrospect, he doesn't need the $550 swap kit you mentioned, the engine he listed has the correct oil pan, pump, pickup tube, etc to swap right in. He can use regular cast iron truck manifolds until he decides to change them, he can buy a set of remanufactured heads for a few hundred dollars, a Performer intake for maybe $75-$100, a summit cam kit for $100. A 750 Holley vac sec carb is easy to obtain, and not a budget buster. The engine can use stock valve train, valves, etc. He will have 350-450hp easily, cheaply. Yes, the engine weighs more, it also puts out more torque than nearly any NA smallblock.

To answer the last question, yes and no, you can buy or make an adapter to install a carb on the EFI intake and plug the injector holes, but to use an aftermarket carb intake you need to swap the heads to early non EFI heads.

Simply swapping to the early small chamber heads on that later EFI block has been reported to increase horsepower around 40hp just from the compression increase.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #21 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-20-2007, 02:19 PM
Factory Issue
 
Yale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posts: 12,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellas85stang
so efi 460,will need diff heads 4 carb?
Call me crazy, but you could always buy a solid aftermarket aluminum intake, get one of those CHP spyder intake elbows, and have injector bungs welded into it. The firing order won't be the same as a 5.0 (I think), but with that and the right injectors and Maf, it could work with your stock computer after a tune. Beyond that, you might get the stock truck EFI stuff ported and see where you end up, and try to get someone (or just pay someone) to get it and your stock computer to work together. This is where I was trying to tell you in my other post that cubic inches require cubic dollars, otherwise we'd all be rolling around in low-compression pro-stock engines.

Give me a dollar.

Last edited by Gimmeabeer; 10-21-2007 at 02:17 AM.
Yale is offline  
post #22 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-20-2007, 04:06 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
Have you ANY experience in using the EFI heads? Have you even looked at one, touched one, read anyone else's experience in using them? Out of the box as cast, the EFI heads have a better flowing exhaust port versus nearly all 385 series stock cast heads. Yes, they use a cast center bolt valve cover, so what? Okay, enough with the heads, lets pick apart the rest of your posts.

Stevo
Are you off your meds? Drag racers don't run fi heads. Wonder why? They just can't compare on a HIGH performance engine. They MAY be OK for a Truck or maybe if you were running a blower/turbocharger but on a N/A engine they just can't compare. Spout all you want about the exhaust port. They may be efficient, but that does not translate into a good choice for performance. They just don't flow well enough for a performance engine. If they were the hot ticket, the racers would be lining up at the wrecking yards and edelbrock, trick flow, ford racing, and Kasse would not be selling heads.


PS. I have not given up on the 385 engine. They are great if you know how to build one. That engine AS-IS is just is not the best choice for a Fox!!!

Last edited by bullfrog; 10-21-2007 at 07:05 AM.
bullfrog is offline  
post #23 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 07:09 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Very

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmeabeer
Call me crazy, but you could always buy a solid aftermarket aluminum intake, get one of those CHP spyder intake elbows, and have injector bungs welded into it. The firing order won't be the same as a 5.0 (I think), but with that and the right injectors and Maf, it could work with your stock computer after a tune. Beyond that, you might get the stock truck EFI stuff ported and see where you end up, and try to get someone (or just pay someone) to get it and your stock computer to work together. This is where I was trying to tell you in my other post that cubic inches require cubic dollars, otherwise we'd all be rolling around in low-compression pro-stock engines.
well put.
bullfrog is offline  
post #24 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 08:42 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SOUTHEAST TEXAS
Posts: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellas85stang
89 model 460 out of a f250...efi....will carb ,intake,drop right on top of factory heads...can i use factory pullies for a fox...what about keeping cool...will fox radiater work or what...its a stock460

Take it from someone that has been there done that.. A big block in stock form or close to stock form is no fun.. tons of torque but no hp.. you could go faster on a budget with a very mild 351 w and easier to put together.. I ran 9's in the quarter naturally aspirated and it was fun to outrun a lot of nitrous and blower small block cars but IT COST MONEY and takes GOOD HEADS to make good power.. I loved my bbf.. BUT to make a DRAG race type DURABLE engine out of the 460... you need the minimum

Good Headers
Glide if budget is not a consideration
C6 if budget is a concern (i had a c6)
THROW away the iron heads for a boat anchor or a wheel chock
(heavily modded dove heads are ok but a aftermarket scj style alum will always win!)
Get a scj style intake port head (motorsport jon kaase style out of box R decent 4 up to 650 to 700 flywheel hp.. with basically no port work..
Decent carb
single plane intake as torque is not a problem
decent size solid lift or preferably a mild roller cam
motor plate is better but can make solid conversion mounts..
in a fox k member spacers will tame the nose up attitude if you are putting it on stock motor stands and make is easier to get under a hood


with this basic list of parts you could do a basically stock rebuild on the shortblock
ie: basic flat top piston (i personally HATE any hyp or cast piston setup)there is a reasonable speed pro forged piston out there for them in a flat top

Good bolts

older blocks are much stronger (thicker main webs)

stock rods are ok to a point with good bolts but you can do a cheap upgrade to a eagle "sir" rod (i beam) for 330 bucks or so

These are random thoughts the will get you a easy 10 second car with the right converter and you don't need a ton of gear.. I ran in the 9's NA witha 3.73 gear..

This will be a reliable combo but initial cost is higher than a sbf.. (primarily heads they are outrageous )


If you are gonna try to run some stock efi style engine and stock manifolds and stuff it CAN BE DONE but i am telling you it will be a dissapointment unless you like doing monster burnouts and running 14's

Sold my race car
Looking for project cars and buy/sell parts, mustangs, fords and other interesting stuff..............
BIGT is offline  
post #25 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 09:02 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
[/QUOTE] If you are gonna try to run some stock efi style engine and stock manifolds and stuff it CAN BE DONE but i am telling you it will be a dissapointment unless you like doing monster burnouts and running 14's[/QUOTE]

Amen. It is not that it can't be done but why would you do it (89 EFI motor)? There are better options in my opinion.
bullfrog is offline  
post #26 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: sherman,tx
Posts: 907
no im gettin a efi 460 maybe...i want it carbed...excpt for intake,hedrs,mounts,oil pan everything else will be stock..just wantin to know if i needed diff heads for carb...i also can get a 1969 429 mild cam intake,stock carberated heads...match springs.. i want different,straight line racing..i can update to stiffer susp springs,tub k,ect in time...in dec ill have 2g to spendon upgrades...willtake time..but like delbrock rpm hci is 514hp. thats 3g in mods..will get a c6 2400-3000 stall depending on setup.. stilllooking in a windsor swap buti want dff......

1990 hatch 4.10 gears. 351w stock 70 heads w/ big valves, and port, rpm intake 650 dp, 9-5 comp, lunati 540 lift 224-234 duration. ford hei stock aod ... still on racks.
hellas85stang is offline  
post #27 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 10:13 AM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
For some reason you are just dense. I am not telling him to run the EFI setup, I was contradicting your bashing of the EFI heads. Mr Frog, if you had any sense, you would know that the limiting factor of the 385 series heads is the exhaust port, it is the choke point and it is what keeps the power low and limits usable cam choices. Air flow is what makes power, the EFI heads have better flow as cast, meaning they have the ability to make more power as cast. I care not how many 'racers' have ran them in the past, if they have the flow, they can make the power.

As was mentioned in my arguments, we were discussing cast iron factory heads, not aluminum aftermarket heads. The is no need to talk about $2500 Kasse heads or TFI units. If you read his post, it shows he isn't building a full blown race car, it reads that he is wanting a project that he can put together and upgrade when time/money allow. He already has the engine, or at least access to the one he mentioned. I gave him the info to build cheap and reliable 350-450 hp with the engine he list as a basis.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #28 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 10:47 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
For some reason you are just dense. I am not telling him to run the EFI setup, I was contradicting your bashing of the EFI heads. Mr Frog, if you had any sense, you would know that the limiting factor of the 385 series heads is the exhaust port, it is the choke point and it is what keeps the power low and limits usable cam choices. Air flow is what makes power, the EFI heads have better flow as cast, meaning they have the ability to make more power as cast. I care not how many 'racers' have ran them in the past, if they have the flow, they can make the power.
Stevo
In your opinion, I may be dense and I may not have any sense but I do know Sh*t from Shinola! Your posts sure sound like you are advocating running the EFI setup. Everybody knows ford heads, as cast, flow poorly on the exhaust. Suggesting the FI heads are the answer is ridiculous when so many other better options are available. I feel you advice is misleading at the least and poor at the best. Yes, you can get modest gains from anything if you throw enough money at it. This is in regards to a performance engine, not a stock motor for a tow vehicle. Two different goals Stevo.
bullfrog is offline  
post #29 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 10:51 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellas85stang
no im gettin a efi 460 maybe...i want it carbed...excpt for intake,hedrs,mounts,oil pan everything else will be stock..just wantin to know if i needed diff heads for carb...i also can get a 1969 429 mild cam intake,stock carberated heads...match springs.. i want different,straight line racing..i can update to stiffer susp springs,tub k,ect in time...in dec ill have 2g to spendon upgrades...willtake time..but like delbrock rpm hci is 514hp. thats 3g in mods..will get a c6 2400-3000 stall depending on setup.. stilllooking in a windsor swap buti want dff......
I would go with the 69 for several reasons. Stronger block with better heads. The heads have screw in studs and closed chambers. It has a shorter deck height for better quench. Intake manifolds are readily available and a std exhaust port.
bullfrog is offline  
post #30 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 11:05 AM
Foxbody King
 
whiteboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,462
351w is much better. 460 weighs a ton.

2003 cobra DSG
whiteboy is offline  
post #31 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: sherman,tx
Posts: 907
im leaning to the 429...stock thunder jet was rated around 330 hp..from 69 thunder bird...mildly built up allready is bout 400 hp,torq who knows..has milled heads,allumitake,cam....

1990 hatch 4.10 gears. 351w stock 70 heads w/ big valves, and port, rpm intake 650 dp, 9-5 comp, lunati 540 lift 224-234 duration. ford hei stock aod ... still on racks.
hellas85stang is offline  
post #32 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 09:50 PM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
In your opinion, I may be dense and I may not have any sense but I do know Sh*t from Shinola! Your posts sure sound like you are advocating running the EFI setup.
Find it and quote where I advocated him running the EFI setup.
Never did I do it, I only corrected you and your false information you posted about the EFI heads.

Quote me and post where I have mislead him. Everything I have posted is fact, based on known engine builds from people that have used the parts I quoted in the builds.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #33 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 10:18 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
Find it and quote where I advocated him running the EFI setup.
Never did I do it, I only corrected you and your false information you posted about the EFI heads.

Quote me and post where I have mislead him. Everything I have posted is fact, based on known engine builds from people that have used the parts I quoted in the builds.

Stevo
From the begining you have been touting the EFI engine and how easy it would be to adapt it and make a solid performer out of it. That is misleading. I merely stated the FI engine was not the best choice for a performance application. The FI heads are not performance heads and never will be. That is not false information, just the pure and simple truth. Horsepower costs money.
bullfrog is offline  
post #34 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-21-2007, 10:20 PM
mannish boy
 
Cooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: drunk on diesel
Posts: 31,758
run the truck engine... it's a Ford, so it'll run WAY better than an LS1!
Cooter is offline  
post #35 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 12:09 PM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
From the begining you have been touting the EFI engine and how easy it would be to adapt it and make a solid performer out of it. That is misleading. I merely stated the FI engine was not the best choice for a performance application. The FI heads are not performance heads and never will be. That is not false information, just the pure and simple truth. Horsepower costs money.
I told the exact parts to use to make 350-450 hp and a minimum of 475 tq cheaply. Those are solid numbers and do equal a performance engine.

I never told him to use the EFI heads on his engine, just countered your bullshit false information, but go ahead and keep telling yourself what ever it takes to feel you are right and I am wrong.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #36 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 01:09 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
I told the exact parts to use to make 350-450 hp and a minimum of 475 tq cheaply. Those are solid numbers and do equal a performance engine.

I never told him to use the EFI heads on his engine, just countered your bullshit false information, but go ahead and keep telling yourself what ever it takes to feel you are right and I am wrong.

Stevo

You are so full of it.
bullfrog is offline  
post #37 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 01:55 PM
Worship me
 
AL P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 34,345
I thought it was pretty obvious that Stevo was just saying the EFI heads were Ok to use, just not the best.
AL P is offline  
post #38 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 02:21 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
I thought it was pretty obvious that Stevo was just saying the EFI heads were Ok to use, just not the best.
Don't you start. I simply stated the 89 efi engine as designed was not the best choice for a performance application. Once you start changing heads, the cam, the intake, the pistons and so on, it is no longer an efi engine as designed. The fi heads are not a performance head. The fact that there are no aftermarket intakes, or headers designed for this application further supports its limited use as a non-performance item. I don't see any of my statements as false or misinformed. ,but I am done with this thread.
bullfrog is offline  
post #39 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 11:49 AM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
Don't you start. I simply stated the 89 efi engine as designed was not the best choice for a performance application. Once you start changing heads, the cam, the intake, the pistons and so on, it is no longer an efi engine as designed. The fi heads are not a performance head. The fact that there are no aftermarket intakes, or headers designed for this application further supports its limited use as a non-performance item. I don't see any of my statements as false or misinformed. ,but I am done with this thread.
Good, maybe you will stop spreading false information also.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #40 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 12:30 PM
Worship me
 
AL P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 34,345
All internet forum arguments eventually degenerate into an argument over semantics. I'd say we're there.
AL P is offline  
post #41 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 12:49 PM
Lifer
 
slowbrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boyd
Posts: 1,682
I have a BBF took a couple of years to make it fast . http://www.460ford.com/ is the best place for BBF info. As for a street car I would not do it! Race car not so much ,a 351 based motor is the way to go period.

With Out ...... For Now
slowbrick is offline  
post #42 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 08:28 PM
Saved
 
Wild Stallion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Moving to the Big House!
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
Don't you start. I simply stated the 89 efi engine as designed was not the best choice for a performance application. Once you start changing heads, the cam, the intake, the pistons and so on, it is no longer an efi engine as designed. The fi heads are not a performance head. The fact that there are no aftermarket intakes, or headers designed for this application further supports its limited use as a non-performance item. I don't see any of my statements as false or misinformed. ,but I am done with this thread.
Someone get Gimpy some Cheese! Calm down B!

"Conform to his image" Romans 8:29
Wild Stallion is offline  
post #43 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 09:23 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Not anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Stallion
Someone get Gimpy some Cheese! Calm down B!
Youv'e heard of the man of steel. I can go one better. I am now the man of titanium. I will see you in about 12 days.
bullfrog is offline  
post #44 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 09:27 PM
Saved
 
Wild Stallion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Moving to the Big House!
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog
Youv'e heard of the man of steel. I can go one better. I am now the man of titanium. I will see you in about 12 days.
Geeesh There goes the neighborhood....
Mark will be glad to hear that, he's rolling in the Overtime Dough... you coming back on Light duty?
Oh and to keep this from being a total thread hijacking.... I have a 97 F250 with the efi 460 and that is the runningest 460 I've ever driven in stock form...

"Conform to his image" Romans 8:29
Wild Stallion is offline  
post #45 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 09:32 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Nope

Full duty Nov. 4th. and I have a 8.0 Dodge that will kick that anemic EFI all the way around the block.
bullfrog is offline  
post #46 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 09:42 PM
Saved
 
Wild Stallion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Moving to the Big House!
Posts: 1,315
What crew? going back to B? Oh, you're on dude..... unless your packing a hemi, you are toast.... as a matter of fact, I think I can take your Mach 1

"Conform to his image" Romans 8:29
Wild Stallion is offline  
post #47 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 10:16 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fort worth
Posts: 843
Yep

B crew. I don't know this V-10 may be able to take the Mach 1.
bullfrog is offline  
post #48 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-26-2007, 08:53 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: 2 miles from the track..lucky me
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Notch

$3299 machined and ready to assemble...no thanks.

I also have a 460 that I am assembling over the winter. I am doing it on the cheap, following several of the builds that are on www.460ford.com yes the motors are heavier(200 lbs to be exact) but a factory small block can only take so much before crapping out. A reliable, streetable 460 will put you in the 10s all day and add in the 2 stage and you are all there for 9s.
More people than I can count running c4 trannies(built for sure) behind BBFs and like someone said..tube k members are not mandatory. RNG porting(the "Mad Porter") on big block fox site sells ported Dove heads for $1200 a pair that support up to 700hp..flow #s of 330 on the intake are common with these heads and that degree of porting...nothing that Lloyd Elliott can't do. Yes, there are ALWAYS other ways to get where you want to be...and there are ALWAYS different opinions on just how to get there...just my .02

6 1/2 years on this board, and still a punk newbie..guess i should post more often
DerekC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome